[pwndbypoms]

Long time lurker-first time poster….

I have 2 pomeranians. My 4 yr old just had to have knee surgery due to a luxating patella and subsequent injury. His other patella also luxates but we’re trying to save it from surgery. My vet said she would normaly recommend the Hill’s Science Diet J/D formula food ( I know… but this is the best vet I’ve found in my rural area) but she knew I used “more natural” foods and to go by the J/D’s numbers for omega 3’s and 6’s to chose something I felt comfortable with.
I quickly gave up on using the J/D info for anything but the more research I do the more confused I get trying to do the math to get the ratios right.

My pom normally eats Honest Kitchen Zeal rotated with dried Ziwipeak and various brands of 5 star canned food. But he does best with a main diet of the lower fat Zeal. Before I knew about his patellas I used to add a squirt of Grizzly brand Salmon oil–but then I tried to do the math for the ratio of 3’s to 6’s and it seemed that the Salmon oil was made for food that had a surplus of omega 6 in it (which if I’ve looked at the numbers right Zeal does not). Since his surgery (about a week ago) I switched to the Missing Link joint formula for small dogs but was just wondering if anyone had any other suggestions.
Am I over thinking this? Nutrition science is not my strong point 🙂

[Wwhorse13]

Hi all,

I will try to make this as short as possible. I have a 4.5 year old male Irish Setter who has always had a pretty sensitive stomach. Back in February he started having diarrhea with a bit of blood in it and wasn’t as excited to eat as he usually is. He was put on metronidazole for five days and it cleared up. A few days after he was off the metro, he had diarrhea again. We did blood work which showed everything looked great but his amylase and lipase were elevated (not SUPER elevated like in pancreatitis but still elevated). The vet put him on Hills Prescription Diet I/D Low Fat and prescribed metronidazole and metoclopramide for about a month. He did great during that month, ate great, great stool, etc. Retested blood work at the end of the month and it was back to normal. However, a few days off of the metronidazole, he started having diarrhea again. We did an X-ray and ultra sound and both looked normal. Retested bloodwork a bit later and the lipase and amylase were elevated again. The vet thought it was more likely elevated because of inflammation and irritation in his stomach. We put him on Forti-Flora and it cleared up the diarrhea!! However, like 5 days later he started vomiting! It usually happened early in the morning (like 5:30am) and it was yellow, bile — sometimes if he wretched enough, it would have a tiny bit of blood in it.

We had him allergy tested via bloodwork and it showed that he was positive (allergic) to barley, beef, beets, lamb, cow’s milk, oats, pork, venison, yeast, banana, green beens and borderline for white potato.
So he is totally fine with things like chicken, fish, corn, sweet potato, etc

They gave me a list of dog foods he could eat but I am worried about all of them! Here is the food:

Active Care Healthy Joint Formula Chicken & Rice HPP Prescription Diet H/D
Hills Prescription Diet Z/D Ultra Allergen Free
Hills Prescription Diet D/D Rice & Egg
Hills Prescription Diet T/D Small Bites
California Natural Chicken Meal & Rice
California Natural Low Fat Rice & Chicken Meal NCN California Natural Grain Free Salmon & Snow Peas
Nature’s Variety Instinct LID Turkey Meal Formula
Purina Veterinary Diet HA-Formula
Royal Canin Vet Diet Early Cardiac
Royal Canin Vet Diet Anallergenic
Hills Prescription Diet C/D
Hills Prescription Diet T/D
Hills Prescription Diet J/D
Hills Prescription Diet J/D Small Bites HPP SD Adult Oral Care
California Natural Chicken Meal & Rice Puppy NCN California Natural Grain Free Chicken
California Natural Kangaroo & Red Lentils PNV Instinct LID Duck Meal Formula
Royal Canin Therapeutic Kangaroo & Sweet Potato RCW Vet Diet Urinary SO
Thrive

So here are my issues. I think the Hills Prescription foods have such junky ingredients! So many carbs in them! California Natural scares me to death because of all the recalls P&G have been having. Royal Canin I think is probably fine, but the more prescriptioney type stuff is loaded with junk, too. Nature’s Variety is also owned by P&G and I hate P&G as a company. Active Care appears to be ‘okay’ but I have NEVER heard of it before and don’t know anything about it!

I am so lost at what to do! I want to help him and if I knew that what they say he is allergic to is actually what is causing him issues, then I would switch. I just want him on a healthy food but none of those seem terribly healthy!! Any comments, suggests, support would be SO GREATLY APPRECIATED!!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi harpersmom –

It sounds like she’s eating a very high quality diet.

Some natural anti-inflammatories you could look into: boswellia, yucca, bromelain, turmeric (curcumin) and tart cherry. I’ve been hearing good things about esterified fatty acids (like celadrin). Glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM and hyaluronic acid are beneficial for joint maintenance and repair. Whole foods that are beneficial for joint health (rich in glucosamine/chondroitin) are green lipped mussel, sea cucumber and velvet antler. Some people also have luck with Chinese herbs (although that’s hit or miss from what I hear). Before you use anything discuss it with your vet to make sure it won’t interact with her medications. I personally would try to get her weaned off the Rimadyl as soon as you can. Good luck!

[InkedMarie]

I really don’t want to be bothered balancing. I admit to being lazy. Steve prefers the Darwin’s and he pays for most of it. She still mostly poops every other day. Some weeks, she’ll go two days in a row. I’m ok with this, I just don’t want her stopped up. Do you think adding some boneLess to Darwin’s would be best, because of her non pooping issues?

I love this little gal, so glad she’s here but boy, some things aren’t easy! Off and on, we’ve had trouble with her crying at night,usually between 3-5 am. Moved her crate from our room to spare room; no change. She now sleeps loose in our room but the same thing. She has bad knees & her hips aren’t great either, been on the Swansons joint support and two Chinese herbs. We aren’t noticing any change so when she goes for her Re-check on Tuesday, I’m going to get a script for something. I don’t know if she’s crying due to pain, dementia or something else.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi DieselJunki –

If you’re feeding turkey necks at night I would recommend feeding a red meat grind in the morning. Dogs should get an even mix of red meat and poultry. Poultry is high in polyunsaturated fats, particularly linoleic acid (an essential omega 6 fatty acid) and a poultry only diet could easily supply an over-abudance of omega 6’s – omega 6’s are essential but they need to be balanced in the correct proportion with the other essential fatty acids. Red meat tends to be high in saturated fats and low in polyunsaturated fats – this means that a red meat only diet won’t meet the dog’s dietary requirements for linoleic acid (an essential omega 6 fatty acid) and alpha linolenic acid (an essential omega 3 fatty acid). Feeding red meat for one meal and poultry for another will help to ensure your dog receives essential fatty acids in the correct proportions. I also feel that the bulk of the organ content of a raw diet should come from ruminant sources as there is a much wider variety to choose from – the only poultry organs I’ve ever seen available for purchase are livers, for ruminants it’s possible to purchase liver, kidney, lung, pancreas, spleen, etc. Red meat and poultry also have different amino acid and mineral profiles so feeding both will help to fill in the gaps. Because you’re ordering from MPC and because calcium levels are a concern at this point, I would recommend feeding the Green Beef Tripe Supermix 5 mornings per week (This mix will have a low, but balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio due to the fact that it’s comprised of 50% green tripe. It also contains 40% whole ground young beef and 10% trachea and gullet – trachea and gullet are rich in glucosamine and chondroitin and good for the joints). The other two mornings I would feed their Ground Beef Organ Mix – this is 50% heart, 30% liver and 20% kidney (so, because heart is considered a muscle meat, this mix is 50% muscle meat and 50% organ meat). Feeding organ meat two mornings per week will ensure he’s received the appropriate amount of organ meat in his diet (if you are only feeding turkey necks for dinner the necks should balance out the high levels of phosphorus in the organ mix). To get him to gain weight, try adding a tablespoon of coconut oil to his grind every morning. Good luck!

• This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[InkedMarie]

I’m not a huge kibble fan overall, one reason why the other two will be on all raw as soon as their kibble is gone. She is on the two chinese herbs for her joints, per the holistic vet. I tried olive oil to get her to go the other day but it didn’t work. She does get salmon oil and coconut oil (every other day)

[Magnus Campbell]

New to the forum.

Just got a 3 and half month old german shepherd/rotti mix from a local animal rescue.

I’ve been reading this forum the past few days trying to find the best food to buy our little guy (trying out some Wellness Core Puppy and Avoderm Rotating Menu – Trout and Peas), but for the past two days he won’t eat any kibble.

I also got him a few cans to top of the kibble and he will eat that. It looks like he doesn’t chew his kibble when eats it and then he ends up throwing it up (I assume because its upsetting his digestive system). He seems totally normal and not sick at all, just won’t eat the kibble and when he does he doesn’t chew and usually yacks later.

So, since he eats the wet and has no problem with it, what would be the best wet food to give him while we slowly ween him onto kibble again?

I want a wet food that would meet Hound Dog Mom’s recommendations for the dry food (i.e. a good calcium/phosphorus ratio). He’s going to be a big boy, so I want to make sure he’s getting what he needs to avoid joint/growing issues.

Thanks!!!

Nick

• This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by Magnus Campbell.

[InkedMarie]

I use the Swansons probiotic. Nice product, nice price. I also use their joint supplement, thanks to HDM

[pugmomsandy]

If you could feed her mostly canned food or canned/kibble combo at her age that would be great. They are less processed than extruded kibble and are high in moisture (of course) which is a good thing for all dogs any age. Be sure to get a product that is ‘complete and balanced’ versus ‘for intermittent or supplemental feeding only’ to be sure she is getting vitamins/minerals. A green/superfood supplement is beneficial as well. I’ve used Dr. Harvey’s supplements or similar. My 14 yr old is eating 1/2 cup of kibble with 1 cup of wet food/home made food with supplements (probiotics, green supplement, joint supp) or just wet food. Some sort of fiber of your choice (I use psyllium) will help bulk up her stools. She can have 1 teaspoon of psyllium. Or you can use canned pumpkin or even chia seed for fiber.

[BlueDog]

Thanks for the great response! The reason I ask is mainly because I would really like to start feeding a raw diet, but I don’t have a large budget or a lot of storage space. Do you have any suggestions that can help minimize expenditures? I know I need to find someone in town that I can joint order with, but do you have any other ideas?

[shelties mom]

HDM,
Thank you for the detailed answer, that’s what I like to hear but wasn’t sure which foods are good for joint health. Now I know what I need to add to their diet. You are the best!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi shelties mom –

I do believe that dogs should be fed a diet rich in joint maintaining compounds (glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, etc.) for a lifetime in order to promote optimum joint health. A dog’s natural ancestral diet which is rich in bones, cartilage and sinew, would naturally contain high levels of these joint health promoting substances. For those feeding a raw diet that includes bones/cartilage, it generally isn’t necessary to supplement with joint supplements unless the dog has an orthopedic condition (i.e. hip dysplasia) or until the dog reaches its senior years. For dogs not eating a species-appropriate diet I feel it’s a good idea to supplement the diet with whole foods naturally rich in joint health compounds (think fresh or dried trachea chews, gullet, poultry feet, etc.) or give a low dose of a joint support supplement for maintenance (the dosage can be increased as the dog ages or begins to show symptoms of arthritis). Some whole food supplements beneficial for joint health would be sea cucumber, shark cartilage or green lipped mussel (generally come in capsules or powder). A standard glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM supplement will also suffice. If a dog is showing signs of pain or inflammation it can also be beneficial to combine a joint maintenance supplement with a natural anti-inflammatory such as boswellia, yucca, turmeric, bromelain, tart cherry, etc.

[shelties mom]

At what age should I start to give joint supplement? Any whole food or quality brands anyone can recommend?

[dogmom2]

I use iFlora digestive formula (prebiotics, probiotics and enzymes) for the boys, in addition to plain kefir. We also feed raw green tripe. ( they had some for their breakfast this morning).
I really think the combination of these has helped tremendously to the over all health of both of the dogs.
We also supplement with turmeric, glucosamine and omega3 fish oil for joint health.

My vet recently suggested a spirulina powder for additional antioxidants, but we have not yet added that in.

I swear…I spend more time nd energy thinking about my dogs food than I do my own!
However, after seeing how well Hank did off the grains, I stopped eating them as well and now I am not having the horrible asthma issues I have been treating for 10 years. It has been 4 months since I stopped taking my singular and I have not had one issue. Amazing. I really wonder if there is something to the quality of the grains with the advent of GMO.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Poor guy! If it were me, I’d probably do some fish oil, joint support, anti-inflammatories, antioxidants and enzymes.

Vet’s Best has a supplement called “Active Senior Aging Support” that doesn’t look too bad. It has glucosamine, msm, vitamin c, l-carnitine, l-taurine, CoQ10, lycopene, vitamin e, brewer’s yeast, fish oil, spirulina, papaya extract (papain), pineapple extract (bromelain), lecithin, chlorella, cranberry extract, acai extract, bee pollen, goji berry extract, grapeseed extract, pomegranate extract, bilberry extract, dunaliella salina sea algae extract, milk thistle extract and pygeum extract.

BTW – just got in a little of little black pug mixes at my shelter. Soo adorable. Not sure what they’re mixed with but they’re very “puggy.”

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi steelerfan500 –

The amount of glucosamine present in dog food is generally too low to provide any theraputic effect. I would recommend supplementing with a quality glucosamine/chondroitin/msm supplement to help maintain joint integrity. I’d also consider supplementing with a natural anti-inflammatory (or combination of a few) such as turmeric, bromelain boswellia, yucca, tart cherry or high doses of omega 3’s (up to 1,000 mg. fish oil per 10 lbs. of body weight to achieve anti-inflammatory benefits). Supplementing with an anti-inflammatory will help with pain and stiffness.

[steelerfan500]

My dog has started to experience some joint stiffness so his vet has us on a join supplement. I was wondering if I should try to switch his food to one with glucosamine and if so which one(s)? I read that the amount of glucosamine in dog food doesn’t amount to very much. Currently my dog is on Taste of the Wild and has been for 3 years now and is doing quite well, I should mention that he has gluten intolerance so no wheat, corn or soy.

Thanks.

Barbara

[pugmomsandy]

You can buy Yucca and put it on the kibble or in his drinking water. Some products for “fresher breath” contain yucca and also products for joint mobility contain yucca. OR you can give a probiotic (preferrably one that contains multiple strains of organisms) supplement with his meals (capsule, powder, yogurt, kefir). Probiotics help maintain a healthy gut which usually results in less gas. Digestive enzymes will help also to help breakdown food particles since undigested or not completely digested food can cause gas and puppies usually consume more volume of food so more to digest. OR use some dried parsley. I have small dogs so no input on food and they rarely have gas. I’ve been giving them prob/enzymes for a while (not everyday) and they eat a variety of foods and different forms of food. I like your list above. I was OCD like that when I first learned that dog food was not all it was cracked up to be. I’ve probably used about 20 different foods.

[Mom2Cavs]

I’m assuming you mean Springtime, Inc. And yes, I’ve heard of them and have used them off and on for many years. I really like them. I’ve used their Fresh Factors (great whole food vitamin which I like because Lucy hates most things mixed into her food) and I’ve used their Joint Health and their new Advanced Joint chews. They worked great for my deceased Shih-Poo, Desi, who had both rear luxating patellas. And the Advanced Joint worked when Lucy hurt herself once. I’ve also used their Omegas 3-6-9 and liked them, as well as their Bug-Off Garlic chews for fleas. Love the stuff and they always have b1g2 deals…and if you buy so much you can try free stuff.

[momtopoms]

I got a catalog from them in the mail. Has anyone tried any of them? The joint supplements look interesting. Thanks.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Trachea and gullet are great. Yes you’d feed them like chews. I’ve ordered tracheas from My Pet Carnivore – the dogs love them and they last a lot longer than the dried trachea chews. Trachea and gullet and both almost pure cartilage so they are high in glucosamine and chondroitin – great for the joints. The great thing about raw trachea is they’re very easy to slice into smaller segments for smaller dogs, you can just use scissors.

[rdpalmer]

Thank you all so much for your information. The food is the first thing we are going to change. I appreciate your input. We will see what kind of results we have in a month. Mika, (the epileptic one) has only had 3 seizures in 6 months, but 2 were in the past 3 weeks. Hopefully I will have alot of positives to report.
Thanks again!

[InkedMarie]

I know someone who had an epileptic dog and one ingredient she could not have was rosemary.

[theBCnut]

When my dog was diagnosed with epilepsy, the first thing my vet told me to do was to make sure my food had no artificial flavors, colors, or preservatives. The second was to look for sources of MSG such as natural flavor, broth, citric acid, brewers yeast, etc. The third thing was to eliminate chemicals he could come in contact with as much as possible, insecticides, fertilizers, and cleaning chemicals. The fourth was to eliminate or mitigate stress as much as possible. Every epilepsy dog has a threshhold level, when they are pushed over their threshhold, they seizure. The trick is to reduce the things that keep them near their threshhold so it takes more to trigger a seizure.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi rdpalmer –

I can’t say for sure that the food is the issue, but I can say that Purina Healthy Morsels is an extremely low quality product. Have you read the review? The food contains several “red flag” ingredients and has only received a 1 star rating. There’s nothing “healthy” about those morsels. I would highly recommend you switch to a better quality food. There are several 3 and 4 star foods that won’t break the bank – Pure Balance, NutriSource, Fromm Classics, 4Health, Diamond Naturals, Chicken Soup, Whole Earth Farms, Healthwise, Eagle Pack, Pro Pac, Professional, Premium Edge, etc. Most of these foods are under $45 for the largest bag (~30 – 40 lbs.). The glucosamine is good for the dog with joint issues – you may also want to add chondroitin and MSM in addition to a natural anti-inflammatory like Boswellia or Turmeric. I would not recommend giving your dogs vitamins, balanced commercial foods contain all the vitamins and minerals your dogs need – more is not necessary better as many vitamins and minerals can be toxic when consumed in excess. Changing to a better quality food may help the issues, if not you’ll need to discuss the options with your veterinarian.

[rdpalmer]

We have a brother and sister team of year old pups now. They are Blue Heeler/Australian Shepard mix. Mika (the female) has had 3 epileptic seizures (petit mal). We rushed her to the vet and had the tests done and originally thought it was hypoglycemia. But this last episode we were able to eliminate that and zero in on epilepsy. Moki (the male) walks around stiff….as if he’s stove up. They just turned 1 year last month. We are beginning to wonder if the dog food might be an issue. We are currently feeding them Purina Healthy Morsels. Could these issues be from food allergies? I hate the thought of having the drug Mika for the rest of her life to control the epilepsy. I’m already giving them Pro-Sense glucosamine and daily vitamins. Anyone have any ideas?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi BakersMom –

Unfortunately, if he has hip dysplasia there’s no reversing it. At 11 months old he’s already been through his critical growth phase and reducing calcium levels won’t help. Not feeding a puppy formula wouldn’t have caused this – but all of Taste of the Wild’s formulas are technically “puppy” formulas anyways (they’ve all met the AAFCO nutrient profiles for all life stages). A variety of factors are involved in the development of hip dysplasia – genetics (probably the biggest factor), over feeding, calcium intake during the critical growth phase (about the first 6 months), activity level (high impact activity during growth can cause hip dysplasia) and probably numerous other factors we aren’t yet aware of. If you do find out your pup has hip dysplasia it’s not the end of the world, there are several actions you can take to help him live a long and comfortable life. If the dysplasia is severe, your vet may recommend surgery – most orthopedic surgeries have a high success rate. Surgery is expensive, but if the dysplasia is severe it will be cheaper to get surgery rather than pay for expensive supplements and medications for the rest of his life. If the dysplasia is more mild, often the deterioration of the joint can be slowed by supplementing with GAGs and pain and inflammation can be controlled with natural supplements such as boswellia, turmeric, omega 3’s, white willow, yucca, tart cherry, etc. It will also be important to keep him active so the muscles around his hip stay strong, making the hip less likely to luxate. Low impact activities like walking and swimming are great for dogs with joint problems. Human supplements are generally cheaper than pet-specific supplements – I would recommend going for something with glucosamine, chondroitin and MSM and also supplementing with an anti-inflammatory such as turmeric or boswellia. Adjust the human dose depending on his weight – for example give a 25 lb. dog 1/4 the recommended human dose, a 50 lb. dog 1/2 the recommended human dose, etc. Give twice the recommended dose for the first two weeks and if you see improvement reduce the dose to half and discontinue the supplement for two consecutive days each week to help keep him from building a tolerance to the ingredients.

[Tuckers Mom]

Hi, need some advice please. I have a 11 month old 60 lb. mix. I’ve been told Lab/Shepherd or Lab/Rotty. He seems to be showing some signs of hip dysplasia, I have a vet appointment at the end of the month. I’ve been feeding him Taste of the Wild for several months now. When I went to the pet store they told me they were out of TOTW Puppy and said there was no problem using the adult since there wasn’t much difference. Did my not using Puppy make a difference? After reading Hound Dog’s list for large breed it looks like I’ll be making a food change anyway. I was thinking about starting him on a joint supplement. Aren’t ones for humans more reasonably priced than for dog. Thanks for any advice.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Shawna –

There aren’t any Mercola products that I don’t support – I think they all look great actually. Concerning the joint supplement I feel that while it’s a good supplement, a human product can be purchased with the same or similar ingredients that would be cheaper per dose . Also, the poster that was inquiring about it has a puppy, I feel that the Mercola joint product contains a lot of ingredients which would be FANTASTIC for an older dog or a dog that already has arthritis, but a bit of an overkill for a young dog with no joint issues. I think for a young healthy dog frequent RMB’s or a basic glucosamine/chondroitin supplement is plenty and a joint product like Mercola’s would be an unnecessary expense.

Concerning Mercola’s overall supplement line – no issues other than price. Coming from someone with large dogs, quality supplements can get VERY expensive. I’m always looking for ways to cut costs and always evaluate supplements on a cost per dose basis. Concerning all “pet” supplements in general (not just Mercola’s), I find that they’re overpriced and the equivalent product can be purchased in “human” form for much cheaper. I’d love to support Dr. Becker’s products but, for example, it would be $105 a month for me to give my three her probiotics and enzymes and it would cost me $10 a month to give my three Swanson’s supplement which has 15 strains of probiotics and 5 digestive enzymes (going off the recommended dosages on both products’ labels). I just don’t have that kind of money for supplements and I’m sure many others don’t either.

[Shawna]

What is it about Mercola’s product that you don’t support HDM? Just curious.

[Mary Lou]

Thank you, Hound Dog Mom ~ I’m going to order it now. I really appreciate all of your knowledge! Sure makes things so much easier! : )

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Mary Lou –

Sorry I accidentally mis-posted the name – that supplement is called “Joint Power Rx,” for some reason I always get mixed up and call it “Joint Care Rx” lol. Anyways, thought I’d clear that up in case you try to order it you’ll know the real name. I think it would definitely be a good supplement to try. The recommended human dose is 4 capsules per day and it recommends 1 or 2 capsules per day for dogs and cats. Because you’ve got a little guy, I’d say start out with 1 capsule per day. If you see a lot of improvement you may be able to decrease that to 1 capsule every other day. I ordered this supplement for my senior awhile back and I gave him 3 capsules per day (he’s 110 lbs.).

[Mary Lou]

Hi Hound Dog Mom ~

Our 6 1/2 year old Bichon was diagnosed with a luxating patella with a grade of 1/2. The vet sells Dasuquin, but he knew I probably would not want to use it with our guy’s allergies. I think I would like to try the Joint Care RX you mentioned. Do you know how much I would give him at 14 lbs? Is there another supplement that you think may work better with this issue?

Thanks so much!!

[InkedMarie]

I’ll get the Medizym for fido then, thanks!

[Hound Dog Mom]

When I’ve gotten Medizym I’ve used the Fido version – I believe the only difference is the flavor of the coating on the tablets. I have a jar of the Fido right here and I’m looking on the Medizym website and the two products are identical.

My bottle of Medizym Fido lists: 100 mg. pancreatin, 60 mg. papain, 45 mg. Bromelain, 24 mg. trypsin, 1 mg chymotrypsin and 50 mg. rutosid – per tablet.

On their website they list the following for their human Medizym: 300 mg. pancreatin, 180 mg. papain, 135 mg. bromelain, 72 mg. trypsin, 3 mg. chymotrypsin and 150 mg. rutosid – per 3 tablets. If you divide all these values listed by three (to get the value per tablet), it’s identical to the Medizym Fido tablets.

On the jar for Medizym Fido the recommended dosages are 1 tablet for small dogs, 2 tablets for medium dogs and 3 tablets for large dogs. The recommended human dosage is 3 tablets.

[InkedMarie]

HMD:

Did you know there is a Medizym for dogs? Here is the info:

Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 1 Tablet
Amount Per Serving
Pancreatin* 26,000 USP-units♦ protease (pancreas) Sus scrofa 100 mg
Papain* 970,000 million USP-units♦ Carica papaya 60 mg
Bromelain* 108 GDU Ananas comosus 45 mg
Trypsin 60,000 USP-units♦ (pancreas) Sus scrofa 24 mg
Chymotrypsin 7,500 USP-units♦ (pancreas) Sus scrofa 1 mg
Rutosid* Sophora japonica 50 mg
*Acetone free extraction process.
♦USP-unit is the measurement of enzyme activity according to the test methods of the United States Pharmacopeia (USP).

Feeding Instructions
Size of Dog Weight of Dog Amount to Feed
Small 13-20 lbs. 1 Tablet Daily
Medium 21-50 lbs. 2 Tablets Daily
Large 51-100 lbs. 3 Tablets Daily

~~~~~According to the chart, my dogs would get two tablets per day, which would double the mg of the ingredients.

Here is the info on the Medizym human:

Adults take 3 Medizym tablets, two times daily, at least 1 hour before meals.
Other Ingredients

Oligo polysaccharides, modified plant cellulose, stearic acid, methacrylic acid copolymer, silica, triethyl citrate, coating blend (maltodextrin, HPMC, triglycerides), natural flavor.

Gluten free, dairy free, no soy allergens.

Contains no artificial colors or preservatives.
Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 3 Tablets
Servings Per Container: 266
Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
Calories 0
Total Carbohydrate <1.0 g <1%**
Sugar <1.0 g <1%**
Protein <1.0 g <1%**
Pancreatin*** 78,000 USP-units♦ protease (pancreas) Sus scrofa 300 mg *
Papain*** 2.9 million USP-units♦ Carica papaya 180 mg *
Bromelain***324 GDU Ananus comosus 135 mg *
Trypsin 180,000 USP-units♦ (pancreas) Sus scrofa 72 mg *
Chymotrypsin 22,500 USP-units♦ (pancreas) Sus scrofa 3 mg *
Rutosid*** Sophora japonica 150 mg *
*Daily Value not established.
**Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet.
***Acetone free extraction process.
♦USP-unit is the measurement of enzyme activity according to the test methods of the United States Pharmacopeia (USP).

According to that, the amounts are for THREE of the human ones. Am I reading this correctly that I'd have to use one more of the human ones to get what two of the fido ones would give? If I am correct, the fido ones are cheaper.

[InkedMarie]

Thanks again! Before I order, I’m going to check the dosing/prices for the others you mentioned. They may be “more expensive” to buy outright but if the dosage is less. I have to keep that in mind.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marie –

Definitely not a stupid question!

If it was me, just to make things simple, I’d give her 2 capsules daily for the first 2 weeks then go to 1 capsule 5 days a week. If you find the 1 capsule doesn’t seem to be helping her enough, you could go back up to 2 and keep her on 2.

[InkedMarie]

I feel like maybe I’m asking stupid questions, sorry if I am. I’m looking at the Swansons Mobility essentials. The human dose is 3 capsules twice a day.
Going by what you say above…..I should give her 1 1/2 capsules to start? Do I do it twice a day or do dogs only need it once daily?
Swansons is having a 15% off sale, today only

[Hound Dog Mom]

I would start out giving her 1/2 the recommended human dose for a couple weeks, then cut her back to 1/4 the recommended human dose. If you use a systematic enzyme you would still want to give enzymes with her meal. The enzymes given with the food would help with digestion the systematic enzyme would be given between meals and help with inflammation. In Europe systematic enzymes are about as common as OTC pain relievers are here in the US.

[InkedMarie]

Thank you, HDM, you’re so smart! Is there a dosage chart? She’s 22pounds. I don’t know how bad her arthritis is, we think she was crated ALOT. Walking her yesterday or 15 min did her in. She is almost ten so it on’t get much better. If I use the systemic enzyme, do I stop using the Mercola digestive enzyme?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi hwballew –

If you go to the review section of DFA and read the reviews for Purina and Iams you’ll see that they are all very low quality foods. Dry food is definitely more convenient, but a balanced home prepared food is the healthiest. By type – from worst to best: kibble < canned < dehydrated < commercially prepared fresh food < balanced home cooked < commercial raw < balanced homemade raw (granted the foods are rated the same). If you want to stick with kibble for convenience reasons, I'd recommend picking out 2 or 3 (or more) 4 or 5 star dry foods and rotating – top the dry food with a quality canned food, raw food or healthy "people" food (eggs, tinned sardines, leftover lean cuts of meat, etc.). Canned foods, dehydrated foods and commercially prepared cooked and raw foods would be a step up from kibble and wouldn't require the time and knowledge that a home-prepared diet requires. These options are more costly than dry, but if cost isn't an issue they'd be a big improvement over dry food. If you do want to home prepare her meals, research first. It's not difficult to prepare a balance diet but it does take some research. There are many great books available with recipes formulated by veterinarians and nutritionists. Dogaware.com is probably the best online resource for homemade diets. The homemade food and raw food forms here have some useful information – my dogs' menus are posted on the suggested menu thread in the raw food forum.

For digestion problems I would supplement with a high quality probiotic supplement, enzymes and a little bit of plain canned pumpkin. Remember, because she's eaten lower quality foods for so long she may experience some digestive upset when you switch foods. These supplements will help a bit – make sure to do a gradual transition.

Is she on a joint supplement? I just posted some supplement recommendations to another poster on the "Mercola Joint Supplement vs. Others" thread under the "Dog Supplements" forum.

Good luck!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marie –

Liquid and powder supplements are harder to come across with human supplements. I’ve seen a few liquid human joint supplements, but nothing I’ve been overly impressed with and they cost about twice as much per dose as non-liquid supplements. I’d recommend powder-filled capsules when buying human supplements (that’s what I get for my dogs). They’re easy to pull apart and you can just sprinkle the powder into the food – you also don’t have to worry about measuring, just count the capsules.

For older dogs already experiencing arthritis, I think a supplement with both joint maintenance properties (glucosamine, chondroitin, etc.) and anti-inflammatory/pain relief properties (boswellia, yucca, white willow, etc.) will provide the most relief.

Some of my favorite joint supplements:

1) Joint Care Rx – Manufactured by Advance Physician’s Formulas. Available direct from the manufacturer’s website and on Amazon. $25.95 for 120 capsules. Contains: glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, cetyl myristoleate, boswellia, cat’s claw, devil’s claw, grape seed extract and sea cucumber.

2) Wysong Arthegic – Manufactured by Wysong and available on their human supplement website. $32.89 for 90 capsules. Contains: boswellia, sea cucumber, turmeric, ginger, devil’s claw, yucca, red pepper and cetyl myristoleate. For extra support, could be given in addition to Wysong’s Joint Complex which contains cartilage and MSM. Wysong offers quantity discounts.

3) Swanson’s Mobility Essentials – Sold by Swanson Vitamins. $10.99 for 180 capsules. Contains: Vitamin C, Zinc, Manganese, Glucosamine, MSM, Boswellia, Bromelain, Chondroitin, White Willow, Curcumin, Devil’s Claw, Quercetin, Sea Cucumber and Yucca.

Starting on any joint supplement, I’d begin by giving her twice as much as she should get for about 2 – 3 weeks. If you see improvement drop the dosage down to what she should be getting and give the supplement 5 days on/2 days off. Taking two days off per week will help to keep her from building up a tolerance to the effects of the supplement. You can also give extra omega 3’s daily to help with inflammation.

I’m not sure how bad her arthritis in, but you may also want to consider a systematic enzyme supplement such as Wobenzym or Medizym. These are just digestive enzymes but they’re in a specially coated capsule so they aren’t broken down in the stomach. You give them to the dog on an empty stomach and the enzymes help ease pain and inflammation and also boost the immune system.

[InkedMarie]

Patty, it’s hard to tell. I don;t think she ever got much exercise. I admit, when it’s snowy out, I don’t walk the dogs. I have joint issues and am terrified of falling. Today, it was nice out so we drove to a school that has sidewalks around it and walked the dogs. We walked for only 15 minutes or so and she barely made it back. I don’t know if it’s due to the hips or what.

[theBCnut]

I’ve seen the bulldog look on many dogs that are in pain in the rear end. They are shifting their weight forward to aleviate stress on those joints. Dogs with bad hips are only one place where I’ve seen that. It can also be knees, feet, or spine. Does she seem like she has less muscle in the back end compared to what she has in the shoulder area? Good luck in finding what works best for your olg gal!

[InkedMarie]

Resurrecting a sorta old thread. HoundDogMom, what can you advise me for Gemma? To recap, she ill be ten in June, is arthritic, holistic vet doesn’t feel any dysplasia. Her front legs look like bulldog legs, if you know what I mean. The vet sys she sees that with dogs that are kenneled a lot. Oh and she has no teeth. I’ve been using the liquid K9 liquid health but not cheap.
Any recommendations for a human liquid or powder I can try? She is not on nothing for pain but does seem lame after a walk. Thanks!

[BryanV21]

Acana is a good dog food. Hell, it’s MUCH… MUCH… MUCH better than Royal Canin. In fact, I could literally name a couple dozen other brands I’d feed my dog, or recommend to others, before Royal Canin. So right off the bat there’s a problem.

With that said, even if somebody fed Acana or almost any other food but RC, their dog may need a supplement(s) of some kind. Take larger dogs that are prone to hip and joint issues… you may want to add a chondroiton/glucosamine supplement to their food. Or say you have a dog prone to UTIs… add a cranberry supplement to their food.

As for your last eye roll inducing paragraph… just like not all different breeds have the same dietary needs, neither do two dogs that ARE the same breed.

I really shouldn’t need to explain this to somebody with “doc” in their name, but alas…

[DieselJunki]

Thank you for that Hound Dog Mom.

Cate I agree sometimes to much of a good thing can be harmful. I know I wanted to add more Omega 3’s at one point thinking it would help Moose’s dandruff and coat but was advised against it as I was already feeding a food high in Omega 3’s and balanced. Glad I checked before I decided to go ahead and do it and instead was suggested Coconut oil which I now use. I am always careful by nature and usually before feeding him any new supplement I always check in here and do research.

[DieselJunki]

I would supplement with a hip and joint supplement anyways. Especially since you said she was or is having issues.

Here are a few companies that I’ve looked into and I’ve heard of others using.
Welly Tails
Vet’s Best
K9 Joint Strong
Mercola

And also a link to a thread I had started that has good information from Hound Dog Mom on joint supplements.
/forums/topic/mercola-joint-supplement-vs-others/

As far as a food similar to Acana I’m not sure on that.

If it was me I would just find a good dog food high in protein, low in fat (since you said she was overweight) and add the hip and joint supplement instead of trying to find a food you think might have the appropriate levels to support healthy joints along with low fat and high protein. But I am certainly no expert so perhaps others will chime in.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Cate –

I agree, some supplements are harmful in excess. However, glucosamine, chondroitin and hyaluronic acid are very safe supplements. They can be consumed at many times the daily dose with no ill effects. The amounts in food are very low with most having only around 400 mg. glucosamine per kilogram of food – this equates to a mere 30 or so mg. per cup (just to give you an idea – a 50 lb. dog would have to eat over 30 cups of dog food a day just to get a maintenance dose of glucosamine). Dogs that are eating a natural diet rich in bones, cartilage and sinew would naturally be consuming these nutrients in very high levels (higher than anything in dry dog food). I’ve never heard of a dog “overdosing” on GAG’s.