[Mom2Cavs]

I had a Shih-Poo (at the bridge now) who had both rear luxating patellas. We kept him from having surgery by giving him Springtime, Inc. Joint Health chews. He would get one in the morning and evening. He didn’t do well with Dasaquin at all. But, all dogs are different. I did limit his exercise somewhat, as well, but would have done that with any supplement given. He passed away before they came out with their new advanced chews. I keep both on hand.

[Shasta220]

I don’t know much about the vast amounts of joint supplements out there, but I enjoy Actiflex 4000 (meant for horses, but can easily be used for dogs). It’s probably not the best out there, but it’s super affordable. My 70lb senior lab gets about a tsp daily, which we figured that to be around 5$/month (compared to 30$/month of her other stuff.)

I’d definitely go with dchassett’s suggestions though sounds like she’s been around the block a few times when it comes to joint care.

Best wishes!

[Naturella]

I never used Greenies per se, but I have used the Nylabone green puppy chew things. Bruno liked them, but we are not getting any more. Ever. I am happy he never had a problem, but I would much rather give RMBs, brush his teeth, and give antlers, hooves, and bully sticks/ears/tracheae/natural and digestible stuff for dental health.

My friend, however, used to use Greenies every day with no problems. She also used bully sticks, but she wanted a long-lasting chew, and eventually they failed, so she stopped getting them. She is now on DentaStiX for her 2 dogs, but thankfully she is stopping soon. Her next trial will be water additive for fresher breath and with a joint supplement. Hopefully that works better. She will be using Tropiclean. Any thoughts on that?

[jewel0247]

I’m wanting to start a joint supplement on my 13 year old dog and can’t decide on which (even with all the awesome information on these forums)! She shows mild mobility issues, but gets around well for the most part…
I’ve come down to:
Mercola (the chewables)
K9 Naturals Joint strong (the powder)
Springtime Joint formula

I’m liking the K9, but there is chicken flavoring or cartilage in the formula… and with her chicken intolerance, I don’t know if she would have a bad reaction?

Thanks!

[Shasta220]

I’m sure you guys remember my good ol’ lab, Cassy. Well, I’m starting her on acv and just ordered some liquid Actiflex (it’ll cut her joint supplement cost from 20-40$/month to just 5-10$/month. Boo yah!). The dogs get fed outside of the house, and I don’t really want to hassle with measuring out the liquids every single day, so I thought of this:
Freeze the supplements w some canned food, then just give her a cube a day on the food.

I’m wondering if there’s a chance for any of the nutrients to “freeze off” by doing so? (They would prob stay in the freezer for up to 2wks, since an ice cube tray will hold about 12-14 cubes)

Also, what’s a super affordable and still 4-5 star canned food that I can pop in there? My thoughts were maybe Natural Balance, or something from Diamond? I figured it wouldn’t matter too much since she’d just be getting 1-2tbsp daily, and she’s a good 70lb.

[Mom2Cavs]

Hey, all….I just started the Springtime, Inc. supplements for people. I’m using the Joint Health capsules, the Tonic Blend and the Boswellia Extract tabs. I’ve been using for about a week now, instead of the nsaids I normally use for my back and sciatica. I believe it’s helping, so yay! Of course, it could all be the placebo thing, too, lol. Regardless, I’m going to keep using them and see how it goes.

[Naturella]

Bobby dog, thanks for the kind words!

Yes, shopping on a budget is a necessity for both my friend and I, but finding fantabulous deals for quality food is a hobby. Luckily, she has 2 dogs – the lab and a Chorkie (chihuahua-yorkie, although he looks more like a bichon…), so she likes to stock up for both of them… She feeds them different stuff, which I find slightly odd, but to each their own, they both eat really good food. The Chorkie is stocked up with Holistic Health Extension Small Breed, Earthborn Holistic Small Breed and Coastal Catch, as well as a bag of Whole Earth Farms – Pork (I think), Halo, Simply Nourish, and Evanger’s. The lab also has a bag of Earthborn’s Ocean Fusion as well, I forgot about that.

To add to that, we both have a bunch of PetCo coupons and wipll be using them throughout the year.

As for me, my little JR-Rat Terrier-maybe Chihuahua in there-mutt is on a mix of Dr. Tim’s Kinesis-Nutrisca Chicken-Holistic Health Extension Grain Free-Now Fresh-Victor Yukon Salmon Grain Free-Nature’s Variety Instinct Chicken + Raw Boost-Nature’s Variety Turkey, Duck, and Chicken (TURDUCKEN! 😀 ) + Raw Boost. Some is from his initial mix of the first 3 foods; the HHE bag I got for free from Petland; the Now Fresh I got on sale for $3 for 0.5lbs; the Nature’s Variety and the Victor are free samples. For treats I use those kibbles, or free samples of Victor Joint Health Grain Free and Victor High-Pro Grain free, mixed together. Lined up I have Earthborn’s Coastal Catch, Primitive Natural, and Great Plains Feast to be mixed with ALL FREE bags of HHE Original, Grain Free, and Lamb and Brown Rice, respectively. For later on, I have Victor Ultra Professional lined up to mix with Back to Basics Open Range, and the foods that I have PetCo coupons for, such as Wellness, Canidae, Blue Buffalo (Bruno has done well on it in the past), Avo Derm, Solid Gold, Nature’s Variety, and Merrick. Those last ones I will buy in the end of the year, so they will be next year’s stash.

As for the pet boutiques, I would not purchase food from Store A, even if it’s good. But Store B I really like.

And thank you for the compliment – Bruno is our first “real” dog (when I was little, I had a min pin for about 2 weeks, but my dad couldn’t stand her, so they gave her away… Gina was “real”, but not “mine” for very long…) and I really try to learn about what is good for him and what’s not… We really love the little guy and definitely take better care for him than for ourselves (which is not entirely good, but… eh…). 🙂

[Mom2Cavs]

One of my favorites is from Nature’s Farmacy….order it online at Naturesfarmacy.com.
It’s called Dogzymes Ultimate. They also have Ultimate Complete now, which contains probs/enz, vitamins, minerals, joint health ingredients. This vitamin smells really good and the dogs love the taste.

[Shasta220]

I know pumpkin is a great addition for a dog lacking fiber, but is there a general rule of thumb for how much to add per pound (or 10-20lb, etc) of dog.

Also, I’m very curious about apple cider vinegar. On a FB page, there are several bull-breed owners who add acv, claiming it’s helpful for joints. I’d like to add some to my dogs’ diets, since it’s very cheap (even for raw/organic), and anything to further help my old girl is great.
Is there anyone on here who gives their dog acv? If so, what are all the health benefits?

[Naturella]

Shasta,

This is amazing that your lab has had such a turnaround! It is so amazing to see and hear success stories of better food, so I am always ecstatic to see my friend who switched to good food.

As for my other friend, I took her to my favorite store today, and they hooked her up with over 15 samples of 4-and-5-star foods for her old rottie who has been on Beneful and Pedigree so far… She was happy, I was beyond excited, and I can’t wait too see which one he likes/does on best, and which one she gets. I think she should incorporate a joint supplement in whatever she feeds anyway. But I think we’re on a good track there! Hoping for a smooth transition and great results. Also, I did recommend to her to start with may a 3- or 3.5-star food first, and then go to a 4- or 5-star one.

Shasta, I would have never guessed you are a teenager! You rock! 🙂

And also, I agree with both Shasta and aquariangt – although some people feed Beneful and the sort because of price, it is true that good foods can be found for much less online or at clearance/sales racks in pet stores/boutiques. But I can understand how uninformed people can suffer from commercials and misinformation, and I also believe that once they are open to at least checking this website out, they will also get hooked. Like with Shasta, that’s what happened to me. I just stumbled upon it googling something, and bam. That was it for me. I just wish people weren’t so headstrong about what they choose to feed and at least entertain the idea of learning something from someone else… My roommate, however, said to me, after I had had Bruno for about 2 months – “You have had a dog for how long, 2 months now? What do YOU know about dogs. I GREW UP around dogs and have had my own for over 3 years now.” Then it was clear to me that he just wouldn’t ever take anything I tell him, and, sadly, even his vet recommends this site, and other foods (NOT the SD), but he would still not listen, or research so meh… It is what it is.

And another dog that I take pride in being put on good food is my own. When Bruno was first found, he had the worst case of fleas the vet had ever seen. His fur was falling out, and he had patches of sores and wounds all over. The couple that found him (the second ones; the initial “founders” did not even give him food or water for 2 days before the other couple visited them and took the puppy from them) did a great job de-fleeing him, having him dewormed, given food and water, and a good safe space to live for a while until found a forever home (that would be us!). They had him on Purina-Something and he looked fine (I wasn’t able to tell he had fur missing before), and only had 2 scabs left from when he had sores. It wasn’t until we got him on Blue Buffalo Wilderness that his fur got really shiny (that’s when I realized it had been dull before!), and he started growing fur on his tummy (I thought it was supposed to be bare, not that it was actually missing fur!). So good food helped my little guy too, and like others, at first I did listen to the pet store associates and even my roommate (the Science Diet guy), but even then, I preferred grain free and higher protein food, I guess by instinct. So once I found this site, I have never looked at dog food again, let alone any grocery store’s pet aisle, lol.

[Naturella]

Hey, all!

So, Bruno’s got a problem…

Saturday night I was training Bruno with some freeze-dried liver treats, chicken-based training treats, and Victor GF Joint Health kibble from a sample bag. All went well, we had a long and productive training session, during which he had many treats. He was last taken out at 3am (right at the time change).

Sunday morning he wakes us up as usual to go potty, but way too early, even for him (8am), and this time, he’s shaking. I see that he can barely hold it, so I rush to take him out, and he goes immediately, very soft serve and a lot of it. We go back in, and two hours later, he needs to go again, for almost liquidy stool, and he went until he pooped clear. I figured he was done and emptied out, so we go back inside. He has some pumpkin in his breakfast kibble to try and help his tummy. I start cooking, so an hour later my friend points out that he had thrown up. About 30 min later, he goes #2 by the front door (I’m still cooking). When my husband takes him to his friend’s house, he throws up a quarter-sized amount, and poops liquid at their fireplace. When he came back, I had cooked some plain brown rice with coconut oil and I mixed it with his kibble to try and help his tummy troubles. Throughout the day he pooped a couple other times, at short intervals, and very soft and mucusy stuff, kind of gel-like, and incredibly smelly. He had 2 bowls of kibble and rice, and an extra half bowl of just brown rice with some water. He ate ok and his energy was just the same until the evening, when he was pooped out and passed out. We took him out right before going to bed, and this morning I woke up to him crying to go outside, so I rush to take him, but stumble upon 3 piles of poop in the bathroom and hallway… Outside, he pooped a tiny bit, still soft and mucusy/gel-like. So, now I have only served him his regular kibble, no rice.

Does anyone have any suggestions on what else I could give to him to make him feel better and fix his stools? They are usually very hard and I add different things to soften them up, but now I need the opposite effect. Maybe just kibble will help? If he continues like this all throughout today, we’re going to the vet first thing tomorrow…

• This topic was modified 12 years ago by Naturella.

[Naturella]

I think I have mentioned being in a similar situation with my roommate who feeds his lab-hound mix the Science Diet. While not as horrible as Beneful or Pedigree, he can still do MUCH better, especially because he has the means to! But he just believes he knows a lot about dogs and would not listen to another opinion. This weekend he was out climbing and I was in charge of feeding his dog. Many times I debated whether I should sneak some good food into her crap, or at least a sardine, some coconut butter, or some healthy additive, but never did, precisely because of what neezerfan said. The dog is somewhat picky and if she doesn’t eat the food and he gets home and sees it, he will be upset. Or, if she eats it and gets sick, he will be upset. So while it is heartbreaking to me to not feed her good food, I am working on coming to terms that this battle is one I will never win.

I have, however, gotten a really close friend of mine and a former roommate to stop feeding her lab and chorkie (chihuahua-yorkie mix) dogs the Aldi brand dog food Shep (1 star), to feeding 3.5-5-star foods, such as Blue Buffalo, Great Life, Earthborn, Holistic Heath Extension, Evangers, Nutro, Victor, etc. She can clearly see the effects of better food on her dogs, especially her lab, whose coat has gotten soft and shiny. Her and her dogs are my pride and joy! Now, if only I can get her to stop bathing them every week and giving them “greenies” every night, I would feel complete, but that’s another story, lol. She does give them bully sticks-antlers-marrow bones-hooves-himalayan dog chews-other natural chews, so I guess they are ok for the most part. 🙂

Another “battle” is with a classmate, who is a vet actually, but studied in Colombia, back in the day. Her husband feeds their rottweiler Pedigree (1 star) and stuff like that, so I am going to slowly introduce her to other foods for a great price too (Victor for example, and Earthborn, and HHE). I am giving her a bag of free samples of better foods I got from the nearby pet boutique, and I will hopefully get her to switch to Victor Joint Health or something like that soon. 🙂

Overall I have spoken to many friends who have dogs about dog food, and some take my advice, and some don’t, but if I can even help one dog, I would be happy. I would always want to help more though, but you just have to be careful, and really gauge how to speak to a person about what they feed their “baby”.

[enny]

Here are the latest results from Consumerlab’s tests for Chondroitin, Glucosamine and MSM for dogs and cats. 1800Petsmeds joint enhancer for small dogs and cats: only 70.5% of listed glucosamine hcl.
Joint Complete for Dogs and Cats (Liquid Solutions): 76% of glucosamine sulfate listed.
Joint Max Triple Strength Soft Chews: 135% of listed MSM.
Liquid Health Naturals K9 Glucosamine: only 16% of listed Chondroitin Sulfate.
Cosequin DS Plus MSM (Nutramax Lab): Approved
Cosequin Joint Health Supplement for Cats: Approved
Hope this helps users of these supplements.

[pugmomsandy]

Do don’t have to supplement every meal since the canned food is complete. Try NL and the joint supp for one meal, prob/enz in the second meal. Fish oil two or three times a week, especially if you’re using a human dose, he’ll get more than enough.

[Mom2Cavs]

What you are giving him sounds like a good plan. The Nature’s Logic fortifier is a whole food supplement and I believe should not be “too much”. I really don’t know if you mean you might overdose him on something or if it’s too rich. But, either way, it should be a healthy supplement to add if he tolerates it. All the rest are fine, too. The doses for all these supplements for such a small dog should be small, as well. If you are worried about changing the taste of his food and him not eating, then you could use something else to help deliver the supplement, like yogurt, cottage cheese, etc…. to put some of the supplements in and give as a treat. As for the joint supplement, you could always get one that is packaged like a treat and give it that way, so it doesn’t have to be mixed into his food. The coconut oil would probably be licked right off your finger as a treat, and if the fish oil is a gel cap you could wrap it in something, like cheese, or use cream cheese and cover it and give as a treat, as well. The probiotics and enzymes shouldn’t change the taste of the food. And as far as him being healthier without all the supplementation….sometimes supplements can cause issues, like allergic ones, or loose stool, etc., so it is a choice you have to make, whether or not to give, and if you do want to give supplements to try to find those that the dog can accept either in his food or as a treat. I should know all this because I have smaller dogs who don’t eat that much food and I do like to give supplements. Lucy, my Mixed Breed, has a rare type of skin cancer (I believe she’s in remission, atm, yay!) and she takes a liquid maitake mushroom supplement in her canned/dry food every morning. I was very worried she might not take it in her food and I’d have to get creative, but she has with no problems…very good, lol. I also give Standard Process supplements, which are powders, and sometimes they will give a little loose stool, so I back off a little. If I feel I’m overloading them with supplements I tend to break it all up between morning and evening or give as a treat during the day. Sometimes I don’t give a supplement every day, but every other. I also evaluate their supplements at times to determine if I still need to give something or if I can stop for awhile. I also like to rotate supplements, too. I will give Wholistic Pet for awhile and them I’ll switch and give Nature’s Farmacy stuff, or Springtime, Inc. I’ve used cream cheese to give pill type supplements to Lucy because she’s picky. The Cavaliers tend to just eat anything I give them lol. These methods have worked with my dogs and I hope some of the suggestion help.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Mom2Cavs.

[weezerweeks]

I have my little yorkie on canned food. He only gets 1/3cup a day divided by 2 so each meal is not very much. I want to give him the correct supplements but it’s hard because it changes the taste of his food. I give him natures logic fortifier, mercola’s digestive enzyme and probiotic, coconut oil once a week, Nordic natural fish oil every day.I’m also starting him on joint supplement because of his luxating petalla.since he’s only on canned food how would you supplement him each day. The natures logic has so many things in it I’m afraid it’s too much.should I give it every day along with the enzyme and probiotic and what other super food should I use instead of this or to rotate. I am trying so hard but I’m getting so confused because their are soo many supplements. Sometimes it seems he was healthier just eating kibble with no supplements except fish oil.

[weezerweeks]

Patty this is the joint supplement I was asking u about and yes they make it for horses.

[Mom2Cavs]

I use quite a few and rotate off and on, too. Currently, all 3 dogs are getting Nature’s Farmacy Digestive Enhancer morning and evening in their food. It’s a prob/enzyme supplement. I am also giving Standard Process Whole Body Support (a whole food vitamin/mineral) morning and evening. Lucy gets a liquid Maitake Mushroom supplement from Vetri Science in the morning. I believe this addition has put her cancer into remission! Twice a week the girls all get an Omega supplement. Currently, I’m using Vetri Science’s 3/6/9. I occasionally give coconut oil, as well. For the Cavaliers I will be adding in Standard Process Cardio Support 3 times a week. Also, every Monday they all get a urinary chew that has cranberry and vit. c. Whew…I think that’s it lol.

I also love Springtime, Inc. supplements and use Fresh Factors, Joint Health Chews, Bug Off Garlic Chews and rotate them off an on with the other ones I mentioned above.
Some of the other probiotics or enzymes I like and use are Wholistic Pet Digest All Plus and Fresh Digest. I also like Wholistic Pet Salmon Oil, Springtime 3/6/9 and Nordic Naturals for omegas.

[weezerweeks]

My vet and I are trying to decide on the joint supplement for my yorkie,he’s been having a little trouble with his luxating petalla even though it’s only a 1. I showed him the mercola joint supplement that I have and he’s concerned about the Bromelain because it has been know to cause trouble with the digestive lining. Have any of u ever heard of this? I have a super smart and animal loving vet,his 7 dogs go to work with him everyday,2 golden doodles,1 lab,3carin terriers, and one westie.you should see him driving down the highway it is quite funny!

[pugmomsandy]

Fairly regularly I use Springtime Inc. Longevity, Fresh Factors, Bug Off Garlic (or Flea Free Supplement liquid), and I got some free bottles of their Advanced Hip and Joint and Joint Health Chewables at checkout. springtimeinc.com

And a couple times a week, I give Mercola krill oil and ubiquinol, Swanson’s Dr. Langer’s probiotics or Mercola probiotics, Mercola digestive enzymes, Immunel (swanson), and a glandular product (currently Pet G.O.) http://mypetsfriend.com/pet-go.html and ProDen Plaque Off, vit E and C, and Mercola Bladder Support.

When I make dehydrated foods, I like to add in some raw apple cider vinegar.

I’ve just started to add some sprouted seeds to their raw food. 4 Legs of Love from SproutPeople.org. http://sproutpeople.org/just-for-pets/sprouts-for-dogs/

[weezerweeks]

My vet gave me samples of platinum performance complete joint care today. Has anyone used this. It’s in a powder form. I showed him my bottle of mercola joint tablets and he said they looked good but he wanted me to try platinum.my little yorkie had to have injection today and meta am for 4 days. He has luxating patella. Just wondered if anyone had used these.

[aquariangt]

At the moment, no. Wheat, Soy, Corn free, yes, but I’ve got some oatmeal in Dani’s (the sheltie) food, and Brown Rice in the other two. When I swap foods again to get them all on the same, I most likely will. Is there a specific benefit for the joints from being grain free, or do you just mean the all around health?

[InkedMarie]

I use human joint supplement from SwansonVitamins.com. It’s called joint mobility plus. It has all kinds of stuff that is important for joints. Salmon oil is also good. I assume you’re feeding grainfree; am I correct?

[aquariangt]

thanks Marie. Any opinion on hip and joint supplements? I’m pretty green in the world of supplementing. I just bought some Fish Oil, and am getting some Probiotics, but don’t know much about the hip and joint ones

[aquariangt]

Just curious as to some opinions on dry foods with close to 40% protein analysis. The sheltie is getting fairly active (agility) but the other two are mostly house dogs- not much more than walks, though I have a yard so they can run.

I do like to keep them on the same food, but would the high protein food be unhealthy for the others, or is it not going to cause too much unhealthy weight gain? Also- hip and joint supplements, yay or nay? Vet said she should with her agility stuff, but of course, I rarely pay attention to them re:nutrition

Thanks!

• This topic was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by aquariangt.

[Shasta220]

It doesn’t sound like your boys are on good food at all. You have awesome intentions, but the nutritional value just isn’t there.

I really don’t recommend puppy food, especially not ANYTHING under the Purina brand. Look into 4-5 star foods on this site. There are some forums on here with lists of the most affordable ones, as I imagine the food bill to get high.

No no no to hot dogs. They are very very processed, and whatever nutritional values were in them got processed right out. I’d suggest going to your local butcher/grocery store, and buying raw meats/bones like chicken, beef, etc. Those are much better meat sources… And I’d avoid any jerky designed for people too, it has extra salt and often sugar that dogs don’t need. Try making your own jerky by slicing meat and baking it in the oven until it’s chewy. (EDIT: oops, sorry, just saw that you’ll make your own jerky instead of store bought. Good good.)

The other posts have said no over feeding, and I can’t emphasize that enough either. It is especially important that you don’t over feed the puppy, as giant breeds will tend to grow as much as their food intake allows. If they grow more than their body was designed for, it will put horrible stress on their bones/joints, no matter how fit they are as an adult.

Another note on food: it will probably be a bit tough on your wallet when you switch to a premium food, but in reality, the risk is NOT switching. When they’re on quality food, they will need to eat less, much less.
My 90lb APBT mix, Otto, ate 9c of Dog Chow daily, and was still very very lean/fit. When we finally moved him up to a 3-star Nutra Nuggets, he went all the way down to 2c daily with no weight change.
Another miracle story of what food switches will do: we’ve fed our dogs 1-3 star foods for about 10yrs sadly. Our lab had Otitis, and ALWAYS had a disgusting smell to her, as well as hot spots and shedding. She also was acting very lethargic (we figured it was just her age). When we switched her to a quality food, she lost about 5 years of her age in just a few months! She was bouncy, happy, wanted to play fetch, and had ZERO odor to her!

So switching their food will give you amazing benefits, I promise. 😉

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Shasta220.

[Mom2Cavs]

I would think that any high quality food that agrees with the dog would be good. If you are doing agility you might want to also consider supplementing with glucosamine and chondroitin for joint support. You could look at Acana Regionals, or other foods that are for sporting dogs like Annamaet, Dr. Tim’s. Earthborn has good food, as well as Nutrisource. In fact, if it were me, I’d look at this list of 4 and 5* rated foods, find those that meet my criteria, that I could easily get, and pick a few to try. Good luck to you! I know others will respond soon with their suggestions. 🙂

[FreeholdHound]

I wish I was as organized as Patty 🙂 Since Harry gets kibble in the AM I give him the coconut oil and/or sardine oil then, along with a probiotic and a joint health cap. I am also having good luck with Honest Kitchen’s Perfect Form powder in lieu of his usual enzyme at the moment. In the PM he gets a raw grind/ kibble mix that includes tripe.

[Pugsonraw]

Thanks guys for the responses… I’m going to try some of their products out. Just ordered the Advanced Hip and Joint, C-formula and Fresh Factors.

[sean76034]

I know these posts are like a year old, and I also know it has to do with large breeds like Great Danes, but I need some advice. I have a 2 month old doberman puppy mix and she has been knuckling over. It started when she was smaller, we noticed her front leg would shake while she was sitting, we thought she was just getting used to her weight so we ignored it. 2 weeks later which is around now, she looked a lot worse while she was running outside. She started to run with three legs. This is when I realized something was actually wrong. I looked it up and realized she goes back and forth from normal to stage 1 and 2. The more active she is, the more it looks like stage 2, the less active it looks like stage 1, and when she is asleep most of the time then starts walking it looks normal. This led me to believe it is just knuckling over and nothing worse that would need immediate surgery. I have concluded many reasons to why this happened to her. For one, all we have is tile/hardwood floor throughout the house, for two, we switched foods many times, and lastly, the food she was on had like 27% protein. After reading many posts I’ve concluded she needed lower protein so I went and got her 21% protein with no by-products or corn. It seems to have been helping because her paws look normal right now, but she hasn’t been as active since we don’t let her play anymore with her litter mates. We had a litter of 8 puppies, which the other 7 are all normal and they’re still on the 27% protein. All seemed great until I read that when they have knuckling joints their supposed to be on low fat too. I read the label and the food she’s on is 21% protein and 16% fat. I’ve concluded this is too much fat so now I am wondering if we should once again switch foods on her. What do you guys recommend I should do? Buy a high quality adult food that is 21/12? Or keep her on what she’s on? I feel if we did that she would get too heavy for her paw. But I feel if we switched foods again which will be like the 3rd or 4th time it will make problems worse. What should I do? if I had to make a diagnosis id say she’s looking pretty normal at this point. But I think that’s just due to more sleep and walking and less running and playing. Also I read that vitamin C is good, but she won’t eat her food with the crushed up pill in it. If anyone still comes on here please help us out because we don’t want her to get worse

[Mom2Cavs]

Pugsonraw, I used the Advanced Joint and Hip once for Lucy (pulled muscle at the time) and it worked great. Mine get a Fresh Factor tablet every morning for their vitamin and their 3/6/9 supplement 2 days a week. I’m not using their Joint Health (the regular formula I use more often) right now because I’m using Annamaet’s Endure. I really like Springtime’s stuff. I also have some of their Bug Off Garlic, Bee Pollen and Spirulina on hand.

[Pugsonraw]

Melissa,

I was just looking over the Springtime website today and they have some deals again. How did the longevity or advanced joint and hip work out for your dog? Would you order again?

Let me know…..

Dawn

[theBCnut]

Oh and Lablubber, turmeric/curcumin is great for dogs too, yes, absolutely. It is an anti-imflammatory as well as cancer fighter. It works great for minor joint pain.

[Shasta220]

Thank you for the advice. I’m not sure how I’ll phrase it to him, as I really don’t want to come across as basically calling him a bad/uneducated owner for feeding his dogs that, because he’s one of the best dog owners I know!

I will probably end up just sending him the link to this site, and say how surprised I am about how high (or low) quality some foods are….maybe he’d get curious and check his food out.

I’m definitely going to ignore the canned food for now. Honestly, it’d be incredible if he kept them on Alpo canned, but switched them to a 3-4star dry food. I think one of his biggest issues is the fact that he probably doesn’t really want to make time to go to a feed store for better food (Walmart and grocery stores are all we have around here other than the feed stores that sell dogfood – PetCo/Smart/Costco are 50+mi)

Any extra moral support would be great though, because this guy is…well, he’s more like a second grandfather to me than anything, so there’s a high amount of respect to get through.

I’ve already told him about a great deal on joint supplements, I told him the cost on this is about 1/4 what we were paying on regular supplements. He said he’ll probably do it when they start showing signs of joint problems – they’re 7y.o. Now, so it’s really the perfect time to get em started /before/ the signs come. I just told him I’m getting my 6yr boy on it… Trying to avoid saying, in any form, that I know everything about dog health (because I DEFINITELY don’t)

Thanks again guys, I will keep you posted on any updates, that’s for sure!

[theBCnut]

Hi Rambunctious
I think we all felt the same way once. Soon all that info will start sorting itself in your head. Definitely take into account the amount of topper. The worst thing you can do for a large breed dog is to let them be a fat puppy. It puts too much stress on the joints.

[RescueDaneMom]

Jazz Lover,

The general consensus is that puppies can start regulating calcium uptake around 8-10 months old. To play is really safe you could wait until 1 year.

Read this for an understanding of what “all life stages” means: /frequently-asked-questions/aafco-nutrient-profiles/

Essentially you can feed an “all life stages” food to a puppy because it is approved for growth and reproduction as well as adult maintenance. A lot of the labels on foods (ie large breed puppy, large breed adult, senior, etc) is just marketing. If pet food companies really knew what they were doing in formulating dog foods, there would be a lot more “large breed puppy” foods on the list. If I were you, I would not get caught up on the label. You don’t have to feed a food specifically for a large breed puppy or large breed adult. You need to make sure it is approved by AAFCO for growth and reproduction (aka puppy food) or all life stages.

I had to google FCP surgery. This was done to correct elbow dysplasia? As far as supplements go, I have heard the same. You don’t want to give supplements until they are done growing. I think you’d be safe starting them at 1 year. Does your vet have an opinion on this? I think you are ok with giving the salmon oil as long as you account for the calories that it adds. How much you feed will depend on the body condition of your dog. It is hard to say how much his metabolism will slow down. I would just watch his form and if he looks like he’s getting chunky, cut back on the food. If he starts to look too skinny, increase his food. Refer to the body condition chart in the Dr. Becker article I posted previously. I keep my dog lean because he is older and has arthritis. It is much easier on the joints.

Bottom line- if I were you I would continue to feed a food on HDM’s list and hold off on additional supplements until 1 year or per your vet’s instructions. I hope that is helpful to you.

[Tucker]

Thank you Patty… Just when I thought I was good to go I run into the protein debate. 🙁

I went today and got a little bag of Wellness Puppy Core and NV LID Turnkey all on the list. Before I found you guys I had bought a bag of Great Life Chicken. I guess that is not grain free but shows lower protein.

Here is my sticking point. I have read all 59 pages 🙂 and now I am educated and confused as hell lol

My breeder of labs for 18 years was feeding Costco Salmon and Sweet Potato which is OK for puppies on the list but we have the Diamond Food recall issue. On her puppy packet she says, ” we don not fed puppy food because of the high protein in it. Pups and growing dogs do not need more than 24% protein in their diets. A large breed grows quickly and we want to make sure the joints keep up with the growth so no puppy food.”

You are in agreement with that part and the calcium levels are ok with that food. But the protein is low. Does she just not know. She said 18 years and she never has a problem with her dogs on that food. Who is right? The vet put me on Iams puppy lb and he started itching, so she put him on antibiotics and med shampoo. I feel like an idiot for giving him the pills so young but I listened to the dr. Everyone has a different opinion. I just want to do what is best. The amount of research that has been here is incredible and I am so appreciative to everyone that has taken the time to share their knowledge. Alas I feel I find myself in the same place as many newbies… over informed and over confused!

Do I look for a high end food that had the right calcium but lower protein as she says to cover both bases. The Great Life Chicken I have here and was going to start him on before I found you guys is 22%. Not grain free though. I guess the grains keep the protein levels down?

2 of the lower protein on the list get close to what she says and covers my calcium.

Earthborn Meadow Feast is 26%…
Dr Tims Kenesis is 26%

so if I understand… we adjust the quantity to compensate for the extra protein calories with a high protein food so he doesn’t grow to fast? That is what she is worried about. he is a lab and loves his food… wouldn’t it be better to give him a food with less protein and a larger quantity so he can chow down and feel full? or does it not work that way? Am I just filling the belly with wasted or unbalanced calories?

Tucker is a hoover… if I free fed him he would look like a basketball. I don’t think he would stop eating… 🙂

Right now he is 4 months and 32 pounds at last check (yellow lab male) Every vet that has looked at him says he is going to be a big boy! He is not rolly polly now. I think he looks good in the waste and ribs.

Just when I thought I had it… and I am stuck in the mud again. but now with 3 different bags of kibble at home that I am apprehensive to use 🙁

I hope I am not the only person that is this confused. You are all so patient with everyone. Sorry if I am driving you crazy.

But thank you soooo much for the help!!!!

[enny]

I am the original poster and as to any update there is none so far. As you can imagine ConsumerLab.com has to test hundreds of products from different manufacturers and pet products are not their priority. They do update but it usually takes quite a long time. One of the products that passed muster was the Glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM combo from Nutramax Labs for joint relief for horses and canines. Pet Tabs Original Formula Vitamin-Mineral Supplement for dogs dist. by Virbac AH Inc. was the only multi. that passed. That’s about all I know at this time.

[Jazz Lover]

I’m confused about which (age group) food to give our 9mo male black lab… should we continue feeding large breed puppy, or switch to an All Stages or simply and adult dog food now?

Jazz is recovering from surgery for elbow dysplasia w FCP. It sounds like there joints fully develop by age 2, but my vet said an adult food is good at age 6-10 mos.

Additionally, has anyone had good results from any specific supplements for similar concerns and age lab and are further in recovery?

Thank you

[theBCnut]

First of all, did you read the first few pages of this thread? Did you check out the links? The idea that protein causes problems was bad science and ignorance, so don’t worry about that.
Here is Hound Dog Mom’s latest list of foods that have the appropriate amount of calcium for large breed dogs.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?srcid=0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk&pid=explorer&efh=false&a=v
You have to sign up to view it, but it’s very worthwhile. Take the list with you to the pet boutiques around where you live and see what is available. DO NOT marry any one food, rotate foods. Do a search on the review side on diet rotation to learn more.

Keep your puppy thin, not just not fat, but thin. Less weight is less stress on joints.

Find a joint supplement with hyaluronic acid in it. That’s what the body needs to make repairs to joints. And consider feeding him a raw turkey neck once or twice a week, they naturally have good stuff for joints in them, since them have a lot of cartilage in them.

If you have bare floors, consider using throw or area rugs at least until he is grown. They think slip and falls can be a big factor in joint damage for puppies. And finally, no stairs for as long as possible. When he has to do stairs, make sure he does them at a walk.

[Shasta220]

I was following the “Joint Health” thread, and some people started talking about Actiflex.

Right now, I’m paying about $20/month for our senior lab’s joint supplements (I don’t remember what the brand name is, I think it’s just a store-brand…), and we could easily spend more and give her extra, as her hips need the help. She also has GSD in her, so that sure didn’t seem to help her joints!

Anyway, I found online that Actiflex is 30-40$ for 32oz…(did the calculations, figured it would last our lab 6-8mo) I REALLY want to try it out, as 5$ monthly is a lot nicer sounding than $20+ monthly. But I don’t want to try it and find out it doesn’t work, then be stuck with it.

How well does it seem to work for you guys?

[Shasta220]

Wellness is a good brand…I wouldn’t really worry much about looking for a food intended just for seniors, unless she is really needing some extra joint support/etc. It doesn’t really sound like she is.

First off, please don’t go by what the food bag feeding guidelines say…they are ALWAYS way too much! Not a single one of my dogs has EVER eaten the amount the bag requires… Usually my dogs are completely fine w eating about HALF of what the bag says, no lie. (One of our older dogs started gaining a little when she was eating half of what the bag said…we cut back even a little more, and her energy/weight is back to 100% normal.) I’d definitely start reducing the amount of food… It’s still good to do 2 meals though. Maybe start with a normal breakfast, then cutting her dinner in half. After a week or two, try cutting both breakfast and dinner in half, then see how her weight is doing.
Also be sure to not hand out too many treats, or you’re just encouraging the weight to stay on. My dogs get treats all the time, but I just break off teeny tiny pieces – they can’t tell the difference between a big treat or a little one, it’s still something that tastes good.

Best wishes! Hopefully you can get her weight down at least a little 🙂 I’ve never really had to deal w overweight dogs yet, as I always make sure to simply prevent it from happening. I’m sure an owner as great as you will have no problem though ;D

[boobear27]

Thank you for the suggestions:) I don’t think she’s having any joint/Arthritis problems.She doesn’t seem to be in any pain and she runs, jumps, and moves around just like a normal healthy dog. I think maybe it’s the extra weight that causing her couch potato behavior. Maybe she’s eating more calories than she’s burning off. I thought now that she’s getting older maybe the food that I feed her might be too much for her. She also had problems with her anal sacs so we make sure we express them once or twice a month. Our vet suggested that she might need more fiber in her diet and to try sprinkling some metamucil on her food.

[theBCnut]

My almost 12 year old JRT is eating All Life Stages food and I wouldn’t switch to senior food ever. I’m not saying Wellness is this way, because I think they are one of the better senior foods, but most senior foods cut back on protein just when dogs start not absorbing all the protein from their food so may actually need more high quality protein in their diet than they did when they were younger.

If I were you, I would cut her food back a bit more and work at making her more active. Carrying the extra weight is probably part of why she doesn’t feel like doing much. Her joints are probably starting to hurt. Maybe use some of her food to start doing some trick training or something else that would get her moving.

[InkedMarie]

GRamoin: it’s fine to switch, I would just go very slowly, over a week. I would also use a probiotic. As far as foods, it’s been said that grains aggravate joints so I’d suggest a grainfree food. Some easier on the wallet ones are dr Tim’s, Earthborn, hi Tek…..more expensive are Acana, Orijen, Natures Variety Instinct.

Good luck!

[GRamoin]

I am trying to learn more about proper dog foods for my just turned 11 year old female yellow lab. She is about 70 lbs in really good shape and only has some joint stiffness occasionally showing. I have fed her IAM’s dry dog food forever.

2 Questions for someone to please assist if possible :
– Is it beneficial or OK to change now after using IAM’s so long ?

– What would be a great food recommendation if changing now is ok, & what is rotation strategy for and what would the rotation products recommendation be ?

Thanks so much for any input !!

[Shasta220]

I completely understand your need for economical nutrition! We have about the same problem… 3 years ago we had just two dogs and 5 cats. Now? 2 Betta fish, 3 cats, 3 dogs (aka PIGS with how much they eat…), 8 chickens, 2 ducks, a miniature horse, and a 600lb puppy dog (aka Iggy the Holstein steer…he doesn’t know he’s a cow)

We obviously cannot splurge that much on buying ultra quality food (our lab has allergies though, so she can’t have foods full of wheat/corn).

The most economical and quality foods I’ve found so far are Nutra Nuggets (I ONLY get the lamb n rice formula, since lamb meal is the first ingredient instead of corona or byproduct), Diamond naturals, and Kirkland signature. Kirkland is 4star food, about 25$ for 40lb, and can be found at Costo (possibly you could find it online?). Diamond naturals is very similar to Kirkland, but it’s 40$ (I get the Large Breed 60+ since it has glucosamine and chondroitin to help their joints). Nutra nuggets is the same price as Kirkland, but only 3-star.

To make the food last a bit longer, possibly try adding your own nutritious “fillers” such as sweet potatoes (baked), carrots, apples, and meat (cooked or raw). Possibly try to find a local butcher and see if you can buy meat-scraps, or meat that’s slightly expired (just past human-consumption, but 100% safe for dogs). I know a girl who was able to buy virtually unlimited amounts of expired meat for her 5 dogs and 8 cats… It was, I think, $.50 per lb, which is a serious steal! Yep, she gives her lucky pups 100% raw, lol!

I hope you’ve found something that’s good for the dogs and your wallet. Also, try not to get “lite” foods (I don’t ever get the lite ones…not even if it’s a quality brand), you may find yourself feeding more. Switching to a food that’s even a little better than Beneful might actually be cheaper, since you may feed less.

When I owned my 90lb APBT mix, he ate 9c of Dog Chow daily (and he was super thin, too!). We switched him over to Nutra Nuggets, and he went down to about 2c daily without gaining/losing ANY weight. My biggest tip is this: even if you can’t afford much, at least make sure meat is the #1 ingredient (meal is fine, avoid by product if you can…).

[JASTECH]

Jesse82, the food change is your best choice. When a dog is healthy inside the skin & coat follows which mites don’t like. Sense your dog is of a mixed breed called Bully Breed (not American Pit Bull Terrier) they have skin, joint, tumor and other issues more then pure bred APBT.
So start with the food, try feeding a BARF diet staying away from the grains and post your results as what raw meats and how much you feed your dog. The specs on your dog will help determine how much to feed, energy level etc.

[theBCnut]

Hi Sue, the recipe’s HDM posted are from when her youngest was still a pup, so they are for puppies.

Hi Lablubber, the reason for watching calcium is because too much causes the joints to form too fast, also if the long bones grow too fast they but strain on the muscles which can alter the gait and cause more problems. You should always strive for slow steady growth in large breed dogs. Bigger is not better. Read the first page of this thread and look at the links HDM supplied.

[RescueDaneMom]

Hi crazy mom- There are some affordable, high quality foods out there. I have an almost 8 year old Great Dane and I understand how pricey it can be to feed them.

Annamaet Ultra from HDM’s list is $70 for a 40 pound bag which comes out to $1.75/pound. It has 480 calories/cup so you’ll feed less of it than you would other foods which will also make it stretch further- a good bang for your buck. http://www.chewy.com/dog/annamaet-ultra-32-dry-dog-food/dp/41926

Annamaet Extra is also a possibility. It is lower protein at 26% instead of 32% (I prefer higher protein for my dog). It is $53 for a 40 pound bag ($1.33/pound). It is not as calorically dense as the Ultra at 425 cal/cup so you would need to feed a little more of it. http://www.chewy.com/dog/annamaet-extra-26-dry-dog-food/dp/41927

Dr. Tim’s Kinesis is good too. It’s $61 for a 44 pound bag ($1.39/pound). It has 415 cal/cup and 26% protein. http://www.chewy.com/dog/dr-tims-kinesis-all-life-stages-dry/dp/37810

Victor Select Chicken Meal and Brown Rice or Lamb Meal and Brown Rice are also affordable. The chicken is 391 cal/cup, 24% protein, and $55 for 40 pounds ($1.38/pound). http://www.amazon.com/Victor-Dog-Food-Chicken-40-Pound/dp/B00COVMFW4/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1389619583&sr=8-6&keywords=victor+select+dog+food
The lamb is 381 cal/cup, 24% protein, and $59 for 40 pounds ($1.48/pound). This would be good so you can alternate proteins and not feed just chicken all the time. http://www.amazon.com/Victor-Dog-Food-Chicken-40-Pound/dp/B00COVSBL8/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1389619583&sr=8-9&keywords=victor+select+dog+food

Those are all grain-inclusive foods. Grain-free cost a bit more and I don’t know exactly what your budget is. I think Earthborn Holistic is the most affordable and high quality grain free food out there. Meadow Feast and Coast Catch are on HDM’s list. They are both $47.99 for a 26 pound bag ($1.85/pound). The MF is lamb-based, 26% protein, and 400 cal/cup. http://www.chewy.com/dog/earthborn-holistic-meadow-feast/dp/36414
The CC is fish-based, 32% protein, and 435 cal/cup. http://www.chewy.com/dog/earthborn-holistic-coastal-catch/dp/36406

As far as your Danes putting weight on, as long as their not ribby it’s ok for them to be on the lean side. It’s better to be lean than overweight. You don’t want added stress on the joints.

I hope I helped with the food recommendations. If you can afford it, I would try alternating the grain-inclusive foods with grain-free foods. You could do Annamaet Ultra, Earthborn Meadow Feast, Dr. Tim’s, Earthborn Coastal Catch. That way you rotate protein sources (chicken, lamb, and fish) as well as protein percentages (32% and 26%).