[crazy4cats]

Bobby dog- Are you giving garlic to your cats too, or just dog?

[Bobby dog]

I am using 2 cloves of fresh garlic, sliced about 10 minutes before feeding, three days a week.
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/garlic-for-dogs-poison-or-medicine/

I used to feed Bug Off from Springtime to my horses years ago when I boarded them. When I moved them to my home, I stopped feeding it. Two years of having the opportunity to be around them 24/7, I never saw any difference with bugs and ticks. I use fly predators for the barn area, groom them daily to check for ticks and use an herbal bug repellant spray now.

Last summer I used the Bug Off tablets for Bobby with no success. However, I still want to give fresh garlic a try especially since I changed his diet. I am hoping since he is healthier and does not have that yeasty smell the fleas might not be so attracted to him and the garlic might have a chance to work. If I could get away without a chemical flea preventative I would be a happy person.

I still will be giving Bobby his Ivermectin for HW prevention. I usually use Frontline Plus during flea season only. So I guess I will see how a fresh and healthy Bobby that smells like garlic does during flea season this year. If he starts showing signs of attracting fleas, I will have Frontline on hand to use.

That was a good deal on the Purina One canned! FYI, I was on your coupon website last night and they have a link to Eagle Pack coupons posted under pets. That is a sister company to Wellness. It is a $1.00 off two cans of Eagle Pack canned dog food and $3.00 off dry dog or cat food. They also had Sheba cat food coupons.
http://printablecouponsanddeals.com/Category/pet-products

Poor kitty. Sedated cats only ever went two ways for me. They either have slept it off with no problems or were freaked out and needed my complete attention until the seditive wore off. Good luck tomorrow!!

[Akari_32]

For the dogs canned food, I honestly just get what’s cheap. The Pedigree was free (3 big cans), the Purina One was on clearance at PetSmart for 70 cents each, and I have coupons for $1 off 3 cans, the alpo was 94 cents after BOGO sale and coupons (I got like 10 cans of that), the pro plan was free lol Haley needs canned mixed in her dry or she can’t eat very well, and gets upset tummy. I split a can between Haley and Dweezle, it’s not a big part of their diet, so I don’t worry about it too much. If they ate more of it, I’d be looking for better ones, but I figure it doesn’t hurt. They grew up on all the nasty stuff, as it is lol

How much are you givng for the garlic? I’d imagine it keeps mosquitoes away, too? Flea and heartworm prevention is sooooo expensive!

Oh, and expect some good stories of drugged kitty tomorrow LOL The vey said no food after 8 and no water after midnight. I don’t get off work till 8 anyways, so I gave him a big can of wellness, and that’s all he gets! He doesn’t drink, but I’ll take up the water dishes anyways.

[Bobby dog]

The pic is adorable. I love when they help out and lie on top of or get into things we are working on! He looks very happy and content. Very nice stash by the way!

I saw that Pedigree peaking out of your stash. Pedigree is actually what brought me to this site. My Vet sent an e-mail to all her clients about illnesses she had been treating that could have been avoided with better nutrition. She made up lists of suggested foods and what to look for in foods. I saw I was feeding my cats poorly. Then I looked into Bobby’s food and found I fed a good kibble, but not good canned; I was feeding Pedigree. So I went on a search and found DFA.

Bobby was yeasty, smelled like a bag of fish flavored Fritos, was scratching all the time, and had a red groin and tail area. I always put organic coconut oil on him, gave him baths once a week during flea season, and used a flea med but was fighting a losing battle. It never dawned on me to look into his diet. A month after I stopped feeding Pedigree his skin problems were almost gone. He is sensitive to fleas and still had small red bumps from bites, but his skin condition was 200% improved in my eyes. I mostly feed 4Health and Pure Balance canned now, you can’t beat the quality for a $1.00!

I just started a fresh garlic regimen for Bobby trying to stay ahead of flea season. Since he is not a smelly and itchy mess I am hoping he will not attract the fleas like he has the past two years. Fingers crossed!

I also saw the Purina One for dogs in your cabinet. I have been slowly putting together a grocery store list of canned foods based on ingredients alone from Purina (like the Pro Plan and One list I made for cat food). The only “One” variety that made my list was the Classic recipes. The Tender Cuts in Gravy contain meat by-products, wheat gluten, corn starch modified, soy flour, and added color. The ingredients I don’t like in the Classic Round Recipes are meat by-products and carrageenan. Neither line contains chelated minerals (I look for that in food) but the Classics would work for me if they have coupons or good deals on them. Here’s my Purina One canned dog food list if you’re interested:

Purina One Smart Blend Classic Round Recipes canned – non-chelated minerals, meat by-products, and carrageenan in each recipe:
Beef & Brown Rice
Chic & Brown Rice
Lamb & Long Grain Brown Rice
Turkey & Barley

My mom knows I have been changing my dog and cats diets so she started picking up Purina food for me with her coupons. At this time in her life the only outing she makes is to the grocery store; she is a coupon queen in her own right. She could not remember what I look for in pet food so I decided to work on a grocery store list for her. I do love and appreciate that she is thinking of us so the least I could do is make it simple for her!

[theBCnut]

C4C and Losul

I have an overabundance of mixing bowls, it’s funny what you inherit sometimes, so I experimented with the best method. Small bowls didn’t work at all, medium bowls worked so so, but the large 20″ diameter mixing bowls worked wonderfully. Every time I get out garlic, everyone leaves the room. This method makes an awful racket.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Weezerweeks,

The granules were more cost effective, but if you only have one small dog the chewables might not be that much more expensive and worth the convenience. That said, I’m not finding the the granules inconvenient at all. My 20 lb. dog gets a total of one scoop once daily. I divide it 1/2 scoop each meal. Whatever they’re eating, even if it’s dry kibble, doesn’t matter ~ it seems to stick and gets eaten right up.

The granules are just garlic and the chewables are garlic, but also contain nutritional yeast and beef liver. Something to keep in mind in case your pup can’t have either of those things.

[losul]

C4C, I’ll try that 2 bowl method sometime, but skeptical it would work on some of the garlic i’ve had-very tough to get peeled. Maybe i could put them in a clean paint can, take to the hardware store, and put on the paint shaker.

I should have read the bag on what I have, unfortunately I assumed that most garlic still comes from Gilroy, Ca. It’s Spiceworld brand, but I just read it and this says “product of China.”, sheesh.

[weezerweeks]

Fixing to order the bug off garlic for my yorkie, along with the joint chews. Shoul I order the chewables or the powder? I’m using mercola joint tablets now and they are working but I thought I’d try the springtime joints for a switch. What u think?

[Dori]

Hi Betsy, for Sam’s sake I hope it is the Bug Off and not the food. I thought I had food issues with Katie. It’s gotta be really rough his being able to eat only two different foods. I’ll start off really slowly with the Bug Off Garlic and all the dogs, slower on Katie then the other two.

C4C. Absolutely ear gunk, etc. can be from poor nutrition, intolerances and allergies. My three girls had nasty ears all the time when they were on grain inclusive foods. No sooner did I clean their ears out when they’d be all gunky again. A little while after I switched them to grain, white potato, white rice, soy free diets their ears cleaned up completely and have never had a problem again. Katie who has seasonal allergies also doesn’t have ear issues when she has the seasonal issues. It’s all so interesting.

[DogFoodie]

Hi losul,

I don’t know the answer to your question, but take a look at these links and see if you find anything useful:

Homepage

http://www.springtimeinc.com/product/bug-off-garlic-dogs (go to the studies tab and scroll down to the bottom of the page)

Also, I found this: “Whether frozen garlic has any appreciable health benefits or not is a function of whether it is frozen whole or chopped or crushed first. Garlic that is frozen whole has few, if any, health benefits as the alliinase is neutralized by the cold and while it remains flavorful, the polysulfides never form. On the other hand, if you crush or finely chop garlic and wait about 15 minutes before freezing, it will have formed the allicin and the sulfides will form upon thawing and result in the health benefits that studies have shown for garlic.” http://www.enonvalleygarlic.com/About_Garlic.html

Also, I remember a while ago, several people had some great secrets for super easy ways to peel garlic. Maybe they’ll share their secret again here!

[crazy4cats]

I didn’t know that ear infections could be due to food intolerances. Hmmm… Interesting. My previous dog never really had any problems with his ears and my current two have not either at 2 1/2 years old. I guess I’m lucky in that respect. We just have the digestive issues so far. I think I’m going to eventually order the granules. Right now, I’m giving them fresh garlic three times per week. I’m thinking that might not be enough through the flea season. Betsy, if you want me to buy them from you if that turns out to be the culprit, let me know and maybe we could work something out.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Marie: Yep, I’m using the granules. I almost hope it’s the Canine Caviar and not the Bug Off Garlic since I accidentally doubled my order and am the proud owner of six huge jars of the stuff! LOL! Not really….

Hi Dori: Sam’s reactions to stuff usually happen fairly quickly. I do have confidence in the Springtime product and believe it’s very safe to use. I know a lot of folks here have used it with no problem AND with great success. They even carry it for sale in the holistic vet’s office where I go to see Sam’s chiropractor. Sam has eaten some foods recently and had a reaction to them, that he ate previously without any problem. I’d hate for it to be the CC since that’s one of two foods he “was” able to eat without a reaction. Like Patty said, it’s a matter of Sam’s food intolerance issues and NOT a Springtime issue. Just follow the Springtime directions and start slowly, giving your pups just a sprinkle for the first week or so and gradually increasing their dose. I hit Bella with a little too much, too soon and she had some loose stool, but is totally fine now.

[losul]

I hate peeling garlic, so the other day i bought a 3 pound bag of peeled cloves from Sam’s club for only 6 bucks. There’s no way I can use all of it in 6 weeks-the expiration date, so i was wondering if I can freeze most of it and still retain all the beneficial properties. Anyone know?

[theBCnut]

Yeasty ears are usually due to a couple different things, swimming or food intolerances. Since Sam lives in the frozen north, I don’t think he has had his head under water, and we already know that he definitely has food intolerances. It very well could be to the CC, but he has been completely fine on it in the past. Dogs that have these issues can be intolerant of any food that has protein in it, and some have issue with foods that shouldn’t have protein in them. but garlic definitely does have protein in it. That doesn’t make the garlic bad, just bad for Sam, if it is the garlic. Allergies and intolerances are individual to the dog, so just because Sam is reacting does not mean you should worry about it.

[Dori]

Hey theBCnut. Good Morning. Have you ever heard of any dog having issues like what Betsy’s going through with Sam and the Bug Off Garlic or just plain garlic cloves. I placed an order yesterday for the Bug Off Garlic but now I’m afraid to give it to any of them when it arrives, especially Katie. Do you think Sam could be having reaction to CC food? I waiting to hear how long she’s been feeding him the CC.

[theBCnut]

Garlic!?!? I’ve not heard that one before, but it is very possible.

I’ve got an unknonwn going on with Micah now too.

Don’t worry Dori, it’s a food intolerance issue not a quality issue.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by theBCnut.

[Dori]

Betsy. Oh no! I hope it’s not the Bug Off Garlic. I just put an order in for it yesterday. Have you been giving Sam the Bug Off Garlic long enough for it to have caused his ear problems? One just one week cause this? How long had you been feeding him the Canine Caviar. Yikes, we’ve got to get to the bottom of this before I give any to my girls, especially Katie. Crap!!!!!

[DogFoodie]

I can’t believe what I’m seeing! Sam was doing fine on the Canine Caviar, one of two foods that work for him.

I added in the Bug Off Garlic and within a week, he’s flapping his ears, which are now gunky. So, either the CC wasn’t working or he can’t do the Bug Off Garlic.

I’m getting so frustrated!

[Sharon Buchanan]

MastiffLove ~
Don’t try adding too much to the kibble you feed. All those toppers add to nutrients already in whatever kibble you decide to feed, including perhaps calcium/phosphorus – which should be your primary concern until your Mastiff is at least six to twelve months old. Not saying you shouldn’t add anything, just be mindful of what they’re adding to the diet.

When feeding kibble, it’s unlikely that you’re going to find the perfect food for a large breed puppy. When I brought Mystery home, I’d already done several months of research on food. Although I would have preferred grain-free, I couldn’t find it with an acceptable calcium percentage. I put him on Innova LBP (which has since changed their formula and I’m not sure I’d recommend it now but it’s still better than Pro Plan, Science Diet, Iams and others). I moved Mystery to Orijen LBP when he was about nine months old and able to process excess calcium properly. Orijen will tell you that they shoot for their minimum percentage but as long as they think their maximum is acceptable (and they do hide behind the AAFCO guidelines), I wouldn’t have been comfortable with it in those early months.

Mystery is now a year old and has been on a raw diet for about two months. We’ve transitioned two more Goldens in Korea with my husband and I’m working on four cats (the kitten didn’t need transitioning). If I were to get another puppy today, she’d go straight to raw where calcium/phosphorus is perfectly balanced among protein and organs in a whole-prey diet. And still I don’t add a lot to his diet. He gets coconut oil because of a skin condition, vitamin C and curcumen because of the high cancer mortality in Goldens (though the raw diet and minimalist vaccine schedule will help that as well), and garlic for pest control. I haven’t started adding any fruits & vegetables as I’m still researching their benefits (or lack thereof).

Good to see your note about not feeding RC!

[Pugsonraw]

Hi Dchassett,

I took both my pugs off several supplements right now (not just Springtime)… I have food & allergy tests run about every 6 months and this time around something I’m giving them triggered for NutraSweet in it as well as some of the normal food allergies I usually see. I’m not sure what it is so I’ve completely scaled back to rotating in a few of these things:
organic coconut oil, mercola krill oil, mercola enzymes and probiotics, braggs apple cider vinegar, and a hypoallergenic phycox joint supplement. I’ve used these over the year… and these have not triggered anything for the pugs. Not sure where the NutraSweet came from but I don’t want it in their diet.

Just when I think I’m wining the battle with their allergies or food choices, something changes…. and Spring is here in CA! My pugs are so different and it is hit and miss with products I try… what works for one, makes the other super itchy…

I have been looking at the Bug Off garlic though… even ordered the granules but they have not arrived yet. I was just at the vets yesterday and they were trying to suggest accuguard which is an oral pill.

Not sure if this helps but I find sometimes you just need to test it out, cross your fingers and see how it goes…

Dawn aka Pugsonraw…

[theBCnut]

For some of the positives of fresh garlic, you want the allicin. If your only concern is the bug repellent properties, then Bugs Off is great. I used it for years.

[DogFoodie]

Hi guys,

I just received the Springtime Inc., 2014 Spring flyer this past week. It had a lot of very interesting education type information in it.

I just pulled it out and found this page, which is also on their website: http://www.springtimeinc.com/product/bug-off-garlic-dogs. Click on the “studies” tab and take a look in particular at the yellow-ish colored box toward the middle of the page that begins with “Conclusion.” Also, if you scroll all the way down to the bottom of this same page, you’ll see they’ve provided links to a bunch of different garlic studies.

I think also the reason that the Springtime garlic products are safe is because they don’t contain the allicin that fresh garlic does. Ah ha, found the article on their site I was looking for: http://www.springtimeinc.com/product/bug-off-garlic-horses. Again, click on the studies tab and scroll down to an article titled, Top U.S. Garlic Expert.”

After reading the flyer this week, I feel much better about giving my dogs this product daily.

[crazy4cats]

Hey guys-
What I don’t understand is how it is safe to give the garlic pills or granules everyday but not ok to feed fresh garlic everyday. Both HDM and Patty recommend only feeding the fresh 3 days a week. Are the pills missing the active ingredients that the fresh has. If so, how are they still as effective? I’m confused. Thanks for any help anyone has on this subject.

[DogFoodie]

I plan to start this evening! I decided to mix mine in with a bit of Oracle tripe while they’re getting used to the taste of it.

I believe the jar said that it takes from two to four weeks for the garlic to permeate the tissues. I can only hope the weather breaks within a month. This winter has been just horrible.

Thanks for your feedback on the human products too, Jan. So glad you’re having some relief! What a blessing! I have lots of herniations in both my neck and lower back and I know how miserable a sciatica flare up can be. Like you, even if it’s a placebo at work, bring it on… I’ll take it!

[pugmomsandy]

Start feeding the garlic now. It says it could take a couple weeks to fully be effective.

[InkedMarie]

I use Bug Off Garlic granules daily, year round.

You should feed Sam the granules too and not the chewables, just because you don’t know exactly what causes his ears to flare.

[DogFoodie]

So, is the consensus that it’s safe to give Bug Of Garlic daily during flea season? I plan to start it this week and the recommendation is to give it daily.

Even though we still have snow on the ground and in the forecast and the high today was 17 degrees, I am a person of faith and I truly believe Spring will eventually arrive!

[losul]

Sorry about the delayed responses.

InkedMarie, Thanks for posting. I did find the link you provided helpful. Helped me to realize more, that while it is a really scary and serious thing, but that there is a difference between being HW positive and lower levels of worms and having significant HW disease. It also got me to thinking more about using some supportive supplements.

Shawna, again, very helpful links, not just about timing for seasonal HW preventatives, but also other things. Thank you. I’ve never posted a pic of Turbo yet, but it’s on my to do list as soon as I get caught up on things. Because of the cumulative effects, I guess the advantage multi could be started a little earlier than the others and stopped earlier for using seasonal HWP. But it’s also because of those cumulative effects and the added and unwanted flea killer, that I doubt I will use for HWP, beyond using for treatment. I also noted in your second link that advantage multi is not often even used during treatment.

I’m also thinking now that it is still senseless for me to give Turbo HWP’s year round. (once he is HW free). Even if I up the dosage months to 9 or 10 months, a break of 2 or 3 months from it, is better than no break, and shouldn’t be any risk of infection anyway during the coldest months.

Aimee, I agree 100% with your critical thinking in the the case of Mr. Piggy/Dr. Falconer.
Not so sure either about his “homeopathic” remedies, i.e. sulphur, calcarea carbonica, graphites (is that actually given internally?)

I also got to reading some other alternative treatments elsewhere such as black walnut extract, wormwood, etc. Some of those seem would be as/or more so, toxic as conventional drug treatments. But I think I will start using some garlic.

Update: Turbo had his X-rays Wednesday. The vet went over them with me, and in general thought they looked pretty good. He didn’t see anything at that time that would cause him to downgrade him from class 1 to class 2. Although he did have some things he wanted the visiting radiologist to look at and review (the heart) when he comes in again, I think on April 8. The lungs looked mostly pretty clear and pulmonary arteries he thought looked pretty good. I’m definitely leaning towards a slower kill protocol (rather than the harsh immiticide, steroids, and painkillers, and the vet seems fine with that, although he is still adamant about continuing with the Advantage multi, rather than ivermectin, me I’m not entirely sure Advantage multi will be as effective as ivermectin on fully mature worms, according to what I have read. Also if not going with immiticide, he wants to get going on the doxycycline sooner. He is saying just 2 weeks of doxy. Most of what i read says 4 weeks, or pulsing it. I also told him I had a 2nd HW test done that indicated low antigen, and that that vet thought it indicated lower worm load.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by losul.

[theBCnut]

Because they have opinions that they would like you to believe are fact.

I feed garlic 3 day a week, then off for 4. There are a lot of good things that garlic does for dogs and it takes a good sized dose to cause a dog problems. However. fresh garlic is far superior to any other form of garlic. So I don’t want it in my dogs food.

[Shasta220]

One of the things I read about was garlic. That is one of the more confusing ingredients to me. Half of the people I talk to about it say it’s great for your dog in small amounts, other people say to avoid it as it causes this this and this… What are your guys’ thoughts on it? (That site rated, I think, all garlic products as 5-star.)

[Shawna]

I just posted this to HDM on the regular site but thought you might not see it..

“The doxy makes the worms sterile so resistance shouldn’t be an issue with any worms picked up from the doxy treated dog. One of the benefits of giving doxy is that it makes the dog no longer infective to other dogs.

From heartwormsociety.org “Microfilariae from dogs treated with doxycycline that were ingested by mosquitoes developed into third-stage larvae that appeared to be normal in appearance and motility, but these larvae were not able to develop into adult worms, thus reducing the risk of selecting for resistant sub-populations.” http://www.heartwormsociety.or…

I see advantages to the fast kill as well as slow kill methods. I personally would use the slow kill with SP Canine Cardiac Support and herbs mentioned in Dr. Goldsteins book for heartworm treatment plus. But I understand Losul’s desire to get the worms out as soon as possible too… And Turbo seems to be a good candidate for the fast kill method when doxy and heatguard (or another form) are used first to lessen the risks of immiticide treatment.

I’d give raw eggs to keep glutathione levels up. Cardiac support by giving an organ supplement or giving organic heart. I like Standard Process because it has anti-inflammatory factors that work specific to the organ being used for as well as “food” for the specific organ. Anti-inflamatories like turmeric. I personally would give small amounts of garlic and use probiotics regularly. etc etc etc Chlorella is an excellent detoxer.

Edit — been a HORRIBLY busy at work last few days.. I’ve missed much of what has been discussed :(..”

Another thing to consider is that although nobody wants to get that diagnosis, it is really not as bad as some try to make it. You caught it early. Even before symptoms appeared. He has every chance of doing well no matter which way you go. After re-reading your post I do see where your vet is recommending doxy and heartworm before the immiticide. That makes me feel more comfortable with his recommendation!!! 🙂

Here’s a link that may not provide new info but hopefully will take a little of the scare out of the diagnosis.. This is naturopathic vet Dr. Jeannie Thomason’s site http://www.thewholedog.org/heartworm.html

PS — I found several folks that had dogs with a minor infection like Turbo’s. One said her dog was free of heartworm nine months after starting the slow kill method. Some of the results you are hearing from could be from immune compromised dogs as well. Turbo is way ahead of the pack in that regards. That is also why I would be less freaked about the fast kill method for him!!! You’re a good puppy parent and Turbo has every chance of having no complications because of it.

I’ve always read to use ivermectin when doing slow kill. I’d do more research before choosing slow kill and anything but ivermectin. A quick google search says this about moxidectin “Ivermectin is the medication most commonly used to kill the microfilaria (larval stage.) There are other medications that will kill them (such as milbemycin) but ivermectin kills more slowly. When too many microfilaria die at once, it can cause shock and collapse for the dog. Thus, ivermectin is preferred because of the slower kill rate. Other products like selamectin and moxidectin do not kill the microfilaria efficiently enough to clear them reliably. Fortunately, ivermectin is available in several monthly heartworm preventive medications. Examples are Heartgard ®, Tri-Heart® and others.” http://vetmedicine.about.com/od/diseasesandconditions/a/CW-HeartwormTreatments.htm

Of course, one comment on vetmedicine site is not enough to base something like this on but do research more before deciding. I’ll try to check it out too.

Did you ask him his reasoning for recommending the rabies vacc at this time? Is it that he is not aware of the problems, disagrees that problems could arise, thinks they are overstated or what? Does your state allow exemptions? Why not put it off?

Here’s data from several people that have actually USED the slow kill method and cleared heartworm. And likely these are dogs that are nowhere near as healthy as Turbo however I don’t know that. Just a guess. http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?365271-Slow-Kill-Heartworm-treatment

It’s also the method that most rescue use around here. And again I would try to get Dave’s Hounds input. BUT, when it really comes down to it you will do what you think is best for Turbo and EVERYONE here that is truly your friend will support your decision because we all know that you are the one that has to live with that decision not us… We all will support you no matter what your choice. And as stated before, I think Turbo is a good candidate for the immiticide option as he is young, healthy and has the right person in his corner!!!!!!

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by Shawna.

[Mom2Cavs]

I use quite a few and rotate off and on, too. Currently, all 3 dogs are getting Nature’s Farmacy Digestive Enhancer morning and evening in their food. It’s a prob/enzyme supplement. I am also giving Standard Process Whole Body Support (a whole food vitamin/mineral) morning and evening. Lucy gets a liquid Maitake Mushroom supplement from Vetri Science in the morning. I believe this addition has put her cancer into remission! Twice a week the girls all get an Omega supplement. Currently, I’m using Vetri Science’s 3/6/9. I occasionally give coconut oil, as well. For the Cavaliers I will be adding in Standard Process Cardio Support 3 times a week. Also, every Monday they all get a urinary chew that has cranberry and vit. c. Whew…I think that’s it lol.

I also love Springtime, Inc. supplements and use Fresh Factors, Joint Health Chews, Bug Off Garlic Chews and rotate them off an on with the other ones I mentioned above.
Some of the other probiotics or enzymes I like and use are Wholistic Pet Digest All Plus and Fresh Digest. I also like Wholistic Pet Salmon Oil, Springtime 3/6/9 and Nordic Naturals for omegas.

[pugmomsandy]

Fairly regularly I use Springtime Inc. Longevity, Fresh Factors, Bug Off Garlic (or Flea Free Supplement liquid), and I got some free bottles of their Advanced Hip and Joint and Joint Health Chewables at checkout. springtimeinc.com

And a couple times a week, I give Mercola krill oil and ubiquinol, Swanson’s Dr. Langer’s probiotics or Mercola probiotics, Mercola digestive enzymes, Immunel (swanson), and a glandular product (currently Pet G.O.) http://mypetsfriend.com/pet-go.html and ProDen Plaque Off, vit E and C, and Mercola Bladder Support.

When I make dehydrated foods, I like to add in some raw apple cider vinegar.

I’ve just started to add some sprouted seeds to their raw food. 4 Legs of Love from SproutPeople.org. http://sproutpeople.org/just-for-pets/sprouts-for-dogs/

[Sharon Buchanan]

In the numerous raw topics and posts here on DFA and in particular, this topic on recipes, great attention is paid to supplementing raw meats/poultry with veggies, vitamins and others. In reading articles elsewhere on feeding whole prey, we’re told that dogs don’t eat veggies (of course, I’ve never seen a dog take down a cow either), so making sure they get the whole chicken over time or the whole rabbit over time, among others, should provide them with a balanced diet. These two diet/recipe concepts seem contradictory.

Now, I do supplement with coconut oil, curcumen, a c-complex and garlic for reasons I’ve stated elsewhere, in addition to the obvious ones. I’ve taken the advice of Patty and finally found a grocery that carries kafir (which may be hard to continue because the smell gives me indigestion and Mystery reeks of it all day), and I give Mystery a whole egg occasionally – cracked over a coarse grind with the shell.

If I may, I’d like to list the raw meats I have on hand and get some suggestions on the best way to combine them, add to them, improve something or another. I’m hoping to get half a cow in a few weeks from a local farm, but until then I’ve been ordering from MPC. So here’s what I have right now:

Ground Beef Tripe Supermix
Ground Whole Young Beef
Coarse Ground Whole Rabbit
Coarse Ground Whole Chicken
Whole Turkey Necks – they’re huge
Duck Necks
Chicken Feet
RMBs – emphasis on RM
Marrow bones from my local grocery

Mystery’s adult healthy weight averages 85 lbs. (UK Kennel standards (not AKC) for English Creme Golden Retrievers). I had to take my kitten to the vet yesterday and took Mystery with me to get his weight 56.4 lbs – exactly what he weighed at the beginning of January. He’s grown longer as his breed would but his ribs, while not visible, are easily felt. He’s 11 months old. Talked it over with the vet and she wondered if he was a runt – we wondered together. I’ve been feeding him just under 3 lbs. a day over two meals.

So, I guess what I need to know is how to balance the foods listed, whats missing from my raw “pantry”, as well as any ideas on how to bulk him – not a lot, but more than he is. I expect him to reach full growth at about 18 months.

Thanks in advance! Seems the more I know, the less I know.

[Sharon Buchanan]

I just posted this on another thread as part of a larger response. Thought I’d add it to the discussion here.

I’ve been giving Mystery garlic (pest control), and a vitamin C complex (gum health, immune support, antioxidant), from Springtime from the day I brought him home, that hasn’t changed now that he’s on raw. He’s also getting two 825mg capsules of curcumen (variety of cancers, inflammation, among many others), sprinkled on his food and about a tablespoon of coconut oil which I started him on for a skin condition that cleared up in a matter of weeks and continue to give him for a myriad of benefits. I may be adding krill oil to his list of supplements as well.

Patty ~ what’s a supergreen? 3? Is it important to find a bee pollen that is local the way one could get relief from seasonal allergies by eating local honey, or is any bee pollen good for the immune system? Since Mystery is on a full raw diet now, would whole herring, anchovies and sardines be better than the oils (note, I am considering krill oil but only if I can’t find a good source of raw fish)?

[Sharon Buchanan]

Lablubber ~
Just a bit of additional info on some of the ingredients I mentioned that I look out for.

1. Rosemary Extract – Our oldest Golden started having seizures when she was about 3 years old. As Sunset got older her seizures increased so our vet put her on Phenobarbital, a dosage I eventually decreased as she seemed dazed most of the time. When I started researching food for our newest Golden, I discovered an article on the relationship between rosemary extract and increased seizures in humans that have them. If rosemary extract can exacerbate seizures in humans, it goes that it would do the same in a dog with seizures. I immediately got ahold of my husband in Korea and told him to stop feeding Blue Wilderness. Unfortunately, he’s at the mercy of the commissary and they just don’t have any quality foods. As it turned out, she died from cancer at the end of January, she was almost 11. Some dog foods list rosemary, others list rosemary extract. I avoided all extract recipes when I was trying to find a better food for Sunset. There was no indication that rosemary extract causes seizures so it isn’t a concern with Mystery nor the Golden my husband recently adopted. If either started seizing, then rosemary would be a concern again.

2. Canola Oil – We love our Goldens. In the United States, about 69% of all Golden Retrievers over the age of two will die from cancer. Our Sunset joined that 69%. Mystery is an English Creme Golden Retriever. Both of his parents are from Russia. European Goldens have a cancer mortality rate of about 36%. Mystery is enrolled in the Morris Foundation Lifetime Golden Retriever Study on cancer. They have told me there are a few other English Cremes in the study and they’re hoping to find out why there is such a disparity between the two types (having lived in three different European countries, I suspect environment and food are most likely). I feel it is my responsibility to ensure my pup dies from old age, not cancer so it is important to me to avoid even a breath of a link between an ingredient and cancer. Canola is one of those ingredients. This article: http://cancercompassalternateroute.com/diet/avoid-canola-oil/ will tell you more about the relationship between GMOs, rapeseed, canola oil and cancer. It’s not the only one, but it’s clear.

3. Garlic – One I didn’t mention, but there are enough conflicting views on it that I took time to look it up last year. Just like onions and chocolate, I don’t give my babies fresh garlic. I do however, add it to his diet as a garlic supplement because I believe that in the correct form and amount, it has benefits.

As to your most recent post regarding sources for raw food – I moved my answer over to the LBP topic at the raw forum since it’s more appropriate there. You can find it here: /forums/topic/feeding-raw-non-commercial-to-large-breed-puppies/page/2/#post-33978 It’s only one of seven pages of topics on feeding raw that you’ll find helpful.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 10 months ago by Sharon Buchanan.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Lablubber ~
In answer to your question from the Large and Giant Breed Nutrition forum about raw sourcing:

I decided a few weeks ago that the best diet for Mystery would be raw. Having made that decision, I didn’t think I should wait just because I didn’t have a local source for meat so I started pounding around the raw food thread and large breed raw thread. I asked questions about how to start, what to feed… I knew I wasn’t interested in freeze-dried or frozen patties – my boy is going to eat “manly” meat, where I could find a reliable, trustworthy online place to get meat and poultry and any other essential real food to get me through a search period. Based on recommendations here, I chose My Pet Carnivore (MPC).

Since I would have to wait for my first shipment, I headed to the grocery store, picked up a non-GMO, organic whole chicken as well as some meat with bones in them. I pulled out my German meat cleaver and a cutting board with grooves and discovered an expensive knife and cutting board does not make one a butcher. Next time I’m just going to give it to the meat department and tell them to hack it up for me.

Last week I found a farm that grass feeds, no GMOs, but they do feed grains in the three weeks prior to slaughter (I’m still checking to see if that is standard practice and if not, why it’s done and whether it effects the quality of the meat (other than the tripe) – more questions for my conference list). I may be able to get half of a cow in a few weeks at $2/lb. So, I have a 20 cu.ft. freezer arriving on Saturday and I continue to look at local resources including a dairy farm where they usually put down male calves, as well as chicken, goat and other natural farmed animals. Until then, I’m happy using MPC for all of my meat. I received my second shipment from them today, thank goodness – twice what I ordered the first time and I feel better about the balance of foods. MPC sells a number of balanced grinds – chicken, tripe/organs/etc. They also sell fine ground meats (I assume for small dogs), as well as coarse grind.

So, the answer to your question is – yes, you can buy from a reputable market. It’s cheaper in the long run since you don’t have to pay high shipping fees to ensure frozen mean doesn’t thaw before it arrives. (If you live near MPC they have pickup points.) The first local meat market I called not only couldn’t tell me whether the meat they sell is GMO free but they seemed irritated that I asked. Not going there! I’m also looking for a co-op of folks who are feeding raw but that is turning out to be more difficult to find than I expected.

As for supplements, I’ve been giving Mystery garlic (pest control), and a vitamin C complex (gum health, immune support, antioxidant), from Springtime from the day I brought him home, that hasn’t changed now that he’s on raw. He’s also getting two 825mg capsules of curcumen (variety of cancers, inflammation, among many others), sprinkled on his food and about a tablespoon of coconut oil which I started him on for a skin condition that cleared up in a matter of weeks and continue to give him for a myriad of benefits. I may be adding krill oil to his list of supplements as well.

In addition to all the help you’ll get here, if you go to mypetcarnivore.com, whether you intend to buy or not, they have some links to some great articles on feeding raw – right side, about half way down the homepage. If you sign up for Dogs Naturally Magazine, they email you a link to download their Raw Food Primer.

There are folks here who are much smarter about all of this than I am (which is why I’m here), and they have been really helpful during my transition to raw. Keep asking those questions!

[Lablubber]

Hi Crew

This is what I ordered to try the two either alternating or a mix of the two if he has no trouble with either of them… But I am introducing some cooked hamburger and ground turkey as well as spinach and going to buy some of the stuff you have to rehydrate to start with for the ease of carrying it with me.

One thing that I have had a hard time with was the a lot of the food has no no’s in it that you guys have told me about and I have read about as well such as Rosemary Extract or Oil- Seizures, Canola Oil-Cancer, Garlic – Anemia, and the first thing Rosemary which even rules out Wellness Core Puppy even though it was on the list and I was going to get it an Orijen both as alternates or as a mix. What is strange now is I am driving all of my friends nuts on what treats they buy their dogs and the food that they are feeding them as well.

One thing that is definitely noticable with Jess is that he has thinned down dramatically since coming off of Pupina LB Puppy Chow and he is very lean which I personally have a hard time getting use to because I have always had nice, big, rolly polly, lab puppies and I guess it was just fornate that I have never had one with a hip or shoulder or elbow issue, except with one of my old females, she was English Bred Lab and she was as big as a horse and in her old age she around 10 or 12 she did start having a slight limp in her rear end but that was it. So this this whole thing is a new ballgame for me….With keeping a LBP looking like a lean and mean greyhound instead of a huge big old lab like i always liked to see. Bigger has always been better to me, but what did I know.

I just have to get rid of a whole lot of old school ways and ways of thinking, that now have to be reprogrammed in me, but guess what? you guys were knowledgeable enough about this whole thing and the backed it up with factual evidence and because I love my dogs enough I had to take heed and listen and am glad I did… Because I would hate to see this pup or for that matter my either of my two Westies or Custard the Cat, developing cancer because of Monsanto’s genetically muted or altered grain, being in their food or them developing hip or shoulder or elbow issues because I was too stubborn to listen to you guys about Calcium issues with it’s uptake in LBP’s. So thank all of you for that as well for giving me a quick education in what is best for my dog and for making me dig deep on my own into what what all the leading specialists say about these things as well…

This is the kibble I ordered yesterday from Chewy to transition over to from Blue…

1 x Orijen Puppy Large Breed Grain-Free Dry Dog Food, 28.6-lb bag
1 x Annamaet Grain-Free Salcha Poulet Formula Dry Dog Food, 30-lb bag

Thanks Lablubber

[Lablubber]

Thank you guys for all of your quick responses and I sure hope I don’t get associated with being lazy but you know what? I go to a doctor who is very much into natural cures and holistic medicine as was my mother. And so I take a complete array of herbal medicine and my health, blood work and every part of my being has improved greatly so I continue in this approach.

But when I came here, my dog was on puppy chow from the breeder who raved about it as well as my own vet. recommended it as well unless I wanted to switch to Royal Canin. Upon coming here in just a short time, I started transitioning to what I thought was a great food from all I had read on my own, which was a bad choice so I referred to what you guys suggested and quickly learned my wisdom was severely lacking and I needed to make another change…..

So that is why I am now asking to not make another mistake. I am taking newsletters from Raw folks, holistic vets, folks in the know such as you but trying to disseminate it all has really become quite confusing….One says, it causes yellow stools and the next says it contains one bad ingredient…Garlic, rosemary extract, some chemical that is bad and so then when I am just about decided on what I want to switch to next before the raw… Boom then here comes another post from someone I respect as very knowledgeable in this field and there I am back to square one again…

and so really I just want to cut to the chase because I am at the point food wise that in order to transition to another brand or type…. I have to move quickly or otherwise I will have to go buy more Blue to accomplish that and I don’t want to do that.

So I just looked at Chewy.com and wished I would have gone there long ago and I will order several different bags just to try and see how he does on them and if one seems to agree with him better than the other, that you guys recommended than I will stick with that or use both and switch them in and out as I converge over to raw.

Thank you all so very much for your help…

The Lablubber

[Mom2Cavs]

Pugsonraw, I used the Advanced Joint and Hip once for Lucy (pulled muscle at the time) and it worked great. Mine get a Fresh Factor tablet every morning for their vitamin and their 3/6/9 supplement 2 days a week. I’m not using their Joint Health (the regular formula I use more often) right now because I’m using Annamaet’s Endure. I really like Springtime’s stuff. I also have some of their Bug Off Garlic, Bee Pollen and Spirulina on hand.

[theBCnut]

I’m boosting this post because I know someone here has posted on this before. Maybe they will see this if it shows up top.

The only thing I know about it is my vet suggests low carb food, antioxidants, and good probiotics. I’ve read to also give freshly grated garlic and oregano capsules with meals.

[Scruffy312052]

I can’t address the type of food for large breed any more than I can for miniature breeds but I can tell you what I started doing about a year and a half ago.

I have 30 dogs. Most are American Eskimos and Long haired Dachshunds however, due to a couple of segregation errors on our part we also have several Cold Franks added to our mix. While the AKC refuses to recognize this cross as a specific breed we love them just as much as our Blue Bloods.

To address your query: I was a very strong proponent of Dry food. I’ve tried many and varied brands with a minimum rating of 3 stars. Over the years several of our pets had been plagued with a myriad of health problems: Bad Breath, loose stool, fur falling out, fleas, parasites etc… etc… before I researched K-9 Dietary needs. I started with consulting the three of our most trusted vets in our area as well as several trips to the University Of Georgia College Of Veterinary Medicine.

Oddly enough, their knowledge on the subject was nothing more than suggesting a variety of name brand foods and supplements. It was, quite frankly, a costly “hit or miss” solution with little or no improvement to the health of our pack.

I educated myself by reading hundreds of articles and forums such as this (Rudy’s). As a result, I concocted and changed their diet to a home remedy.

In less than four months there was a marked improvement. Coccidian protozoa; gone. Their breath was no longer foul smelling. No more signs of any type of worms wiggling in their stool. Their fur started growing back soft and fluffy and much to our relief, there are few if any fleas. As a bonus I cut our rather large K-9 pantry expense by 33%. I did, however, add an extra 30 minutes to my time while preparing their meal (mind you, I am feeding thirty).

NOTE: Should you consider my solution it is strongly advised that you consult your Vet First. Two of the ingredients I use may be challenged by some (but not all) authorities. *These two are: “Plug Chewing Tobacco and Garlic.”

Here is my Remedy: In a crock pot I cook 3 pounds of chicken backs and necks and one pound of chicken liver for a minimum of 8 hours on Auto. This causes the bones to break down to become malleable and easily digested. Thirty minutes before serving add 2.5 pounds of frozen or fresh mixed vegetables (make sure there is no or little corn) i.e. peas, lima beans, carrots, green beans and stir.

In a blender add two heaping tablespoons of minced garlic, 1/2 ounce of plug tobacco and one cup of broth from the crockpot. Blend on high for thirty to sixty seconds or until the tobacco is cut up into pieces that look almost granular. Add this to the crock pot and stir several times. Turn the crock pot off and let stand for thirty minutes.

Whatever type of dry food you are using reduce the serving amount by 60% and mix this on a 2 To 1 ratio of crock pot mix to dry food. Considering you have five dogs, freeze the rest of the crock pot mixture in pouches that serve five. Taking into account the size of my kennels, I obviously have no leftovers.

I have been feeding this mixture to my kennels for almost 1 ½ years and my pack has never looked or responded healthier.

* It is argued that tobacco will kill Coccidian protozoa and the Garlic will repel the fleas. I use these two ingredients only twice a month so you will need to reduce the amount to a proper ratio so as not to give your pets too much.

The benefits: less trips to the vet, more active adults, fresher breath, no more de-wormer medicine to buy (which, by the way, is not a healthy substance for your pet) less, if any flea remedies and coats full of luster. If you like, you can also drop to a one star dry food considering it is primarily used as filler.

[LindaW]

If you feed canned tripe, Trippett is the only one with 99% tripe; the other ingredient is garlic and of course that stupid carra gum. Fresh raw green tripe from aplaceforpaws.com is awesome. Expensive though. I get mine from Top Quality Raw which is based in Maryland but makes a food run up the East Coast (I’m in NH) once monthly. Basically its a food club, I guess. But it is grass fed beef and bison and now sheep tripe.

[Harpers Mom]

Okay so for the garlic it would be a clove in the morning and a clove at night for 3 days then 4 days off correct? Sorry for all the questions.

[theBCnut]

1/2 teaspoon per cup of food for the ACV. And 2 cloves of garlic 3 days in a row then 4 days off. The garlic needs to be chopped up right before feeding. I’ve heard B vitamins make you taste bad to biting bugs…

[Harpers Mom]

We are planning to get stuff to do the yard and flea bomb the house on Monday, I will try the virbac! Pattyvaugh, how much vinegar and garlic do you add to the food? Harper is about 60lbs. I would love to feed raw, but the therapy dog organization that Harper is through does not allow feeding raw to the active volunteers. So we use Merrick and earth born holistics and rotate canned toppers.

[theBCnut]

I live in FL too. And I remember a couple years ago when we had a damp fall, the fleas were really bad heading into winter. I did everything I could think of every 2 weeks for about six weeks before I finally caught a break. Find me some wood to knock on because I’m about to say something stupid. I haven’t had a flea problem at all this year. I don’t know if it is the raw food, the vinegar, the garlic, the whatever, but I have not had fleas much at all this whole year.

[Ginny]

Help! My 8 year old Pek-A-Poo insists on eating her “poop” most every time she goes out. We’ve tried adding garlic, etc to her food & that didn’t work. Hot sauce on the poop didn’t even deter her. Other than picking up after each poop time, what can we do? Could it be the food — Science Diet Lite kibble? It’s a gross habit for a sweet dog!

[InkedMarie]

Caroline: I have used bug off garlic for years; it works great for me!

[RescueDaneMom]

I’m currently using the Joint Health powder for dogs. So far so good. I don’t see any miraculous improvement with Max’s arthritis but I know it’s helping some as his joints don’t pop all the time like they do when a supplement is clearly not working. I’m going to try Cortaflex next.

Marie- how did the Bug Off Garlic work for you? I was thinking about trying it.

-Caroline