[InkedMarie]

HDM: OT but can you go over to the Off Topic forum, to my new dog thread and tell me if you can see the pictures of Gemma? It’s from FB but I made it public, hopefully they can be seen by everyone. Thanks

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Rambo and Fancy –

Some people rotate between “flavors” of he same brand and others rotate between different brands entirely. I think the dog gets more benefit from rotating between different brands. While there may be minor differences between different “flavors” of the same brand, often the ingredients are pretty similar. Rotating between different brands entirely will expose your dog to a greater variety of ingredients.

[Rambo and Fancy]

When you talk about rotation do you mean among brands or just varieties of the same brand?

[NectarMom]

Is he having issues with his current food health wise? Playing with his food is not a reason to switch unless he isn’t eating it at all but then the switch over could take upto 2 weeks when done properly or you could cause problems with his digestive system now if there is no current problem. Why switch?

What kind of dog and what are you feeding now, more details would help 🙂

[pugmomsandy]

Do you mean you need a medium to large kibble?

[ChaunceyML]

We are looking for a healthy dry food for our pom. He loves to play with his kibble so we need something that has a good size to it. Any suggestions?

[Dr.Alize12]

Astral Weeks ! Hi ! My 4 year old lab ate a golf ball when she was 8 months ripping thru her intestines. They took out her jejunum.(the part that absorbs all the nutrients?!) So, the vet said Purina gastroenteric for a year, 2 Pancreatic enzymes, 2 fortiflora, 1 anti diarrheal WITH EACH meal. I didnt think any of that was a good idea cuz her diarrhea was bad. I stopped giving her all pills for a month or two and fed her boiled chicken breast and a little brown rice. I bought a grain free dog food at a animal feed store and began incorporating that with the chicken -then probably close to a year went to only dry grain free food – i drizzeled a teaspoon of honey in the bowl or sprinkled cheese on top. or Flax seed oil. and 1/4 cup or 1/2 cup of food 2x a day to start. Plain Pumpkin (organic) Plain yogurt (chobani) LOW SUGAR. If diahrrea happens still then give 2 probiotics (pour from capsule) into a teaspoon of of peanut buttter. Will you let me know how this works for you ?

[aimee]

Thanks Matt,

Glad I could help. I prefer to see soy as a protein source in a veg. diet as it has a decent AA profile. I think (???) Nature’s Recipe has been through feeding trials and they have a canned version which is a little higher in protein than most dry veg. diets if you carry that brand.

One of the concerns with vegetarian diets is getting enough sulfur containing AA into the dog. If the diet is marginal in those AA and the dog’s energy intake to maintain a good body score is on the low end, the dog may not be consuming enough food to meet it’s AA needs. ( Newfoundlands have much lower energy requirements than other breeds which is why I think they were the ones to suffer from the effects of the aforementioned Lamb and Rice diet.)

Kind Regards

[marmaduke]

We have been following the Going RAWR dog food diet for awhile now and our 2 Golden Retreivers will NOT stop eating their (and our 10 year old Lab/Border Collie Mix’s) own and each other’s poop and one of the Golden’s has gas constantly.

They are just over a year now and we have had them on the RAWR diet since they were approx. 4 months old.

We feed them ground raw chicken for dogs from our local butcher and a recipe for a vegetable/fruit slop and raw chicken hearts or liver.

The veggie/fruit slop contains: romaine lettuce, celery, beets, carrots, squash, bananas, oranges, apples, pineapple, kelp powder, whole eggs (including the shell) and plain yogurt.

Their daily meals are:

Morning – 1cup raw chicken meat, 1/2cup veggie slop, 2 raw chicken hearts or liver.
Evening – same as above.

ANY suggestions on how to cure the poop eating behaviour or the gas, I would certainly appreciate it!!

I am even considering going back to a dry kibble…tried several “premium” brands (Acana, Fromm) and found them to be gassy on them as well…maybe they were too rich?

Thanks

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi DieselJunki –

Congrats on the new family member! 🙂

Amierican Bulldogs would be considered a large breed, so you should feed them as such. Nature’s Variety Instinct Rabbit would be a wonderful choice for your new pup – the calcium levels are right where they should be. All three of my dogs now eat a raw diet, but my oldest used to eat kibble and I used Nature’s Variety Instinct in my rotation frequently – he loved the food and did well on it. All of Nature’s Variety Instinct foods are approved for “All Life Stages” meaning that they meet the nutrition requirements of any age dog – puppy right through to senior. Any 4 or 5 star canned food would make a great topper – as long as you’re only using a little canned to mix with the dry you shouldn’t need to worry about calcium levels too much. My only other suggestion would be to pick at least one or two other dry foods to rotate with – rotational feeding is much healthier than feeding the same food continuously and if you get your new pup accustomed to rotational feeding while he is young it will be easier to change foods later on. If you check out the “Diet and Health Issues” forum and go to the sticky “Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition” topic you’ll find a list with other 4 and 5 star grain-free foods that would be a good choice for your pup.

[amydunn19]

krist117 – I don’t have experience with Cushings but I have a diabetic JRT who was diagnosed five years ago. I have friends who have dogs with both conditions and I know once you get the Cushings under control, the diabetes will be easier to get regulated. I am worried that your vet admits his lack of experience with dogs – if it is possible, I would find a vet with dog and diabetes experience. If it is not possible, you will have to do the best you can. IMO you need to test your dog’s blood sugar at home. This dog needs to be monitored to determine how his body uses insulin. Buy a human meter(I use the One Touch Ultra) and buy your strips on Amazon or eBay. I test at fasting(before eating), six hours after that and then 6 hours after that at the evening meal. Take your meter with you to your vet and check against his lab. Human blood and canine blood are different but you will get an idea of how to adjust your number based on the difference between your reading and his reading. Testing is vital and don’t waste your time with urine strips – they are not reliable. As for food, I prefer Nutrisca which is low glycemic and my dogs love it. I top it with Nutrisca wet food or Merrrick wet food. I also use Grandma Lucy’s Pure Performance, another low glycemic option to change it up but worry about variety until you have him regulated. I stay away from potatoes and tapioca. Also, remember the most important thing is to find a food your dog will eat willingly. This is not a battle you want to fight – your dog must eat. You can also top the food with boiled chicken or homemade broth(not canned ) to make any dry more appealing.

[billhill]

I’m currently very pleased with Costco (Kirkland) natures domain, about $35 for 35 lbs, gets a good rating on this site, good product for the money.

Bill

[dave]

We have a client who has with a dog with Colitis. She want to change food but use looking for a food with very low fat. Please list a few foods dry and wet if possible. Thanks

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi lonimck –

Check out Earthborn Primitive Natural – it’s 5 stars, grain-free and contains chicken, turkey and fish just like Acana Wild Prairie. It runs about $48 for a 28 lb. bag

[lonimck]

Hello. I am currently feeding my two dogs (one is an Old English mix of some sort and the other is a Cocker Spaniel) Acana Wild Prairie but I can’t really afford to buy this food anymore. Can anyone make a suggestion of a good quality food that might be comparable to the Acana but that is more economical? Thanks!

[Mom2Cavs]

I’m sorry to hear about your Cav. Sadly, I just lost my 12 year old Blenheim girl, Stella, to SM. 🙁 I think that feeding an all can diet, as long as the canned food is labeled “complete and balanced” and not for supplemental feeding only, is perfectly fine. In fact, it’s really a lot better than feeding a total dry diet. It’s a little closer to being a species appropriate diet, at least. I feel most people don’t use canned, and use dry, simply because it can be cost prohibitive to use, especially with multiple dog households. If you can afford it, it really is better than dry. Some people also feed a raw diet. I prefer premade raw. There are lots of good brands to choose from. If raw is not for you, then there are the freeze dried formulas and rehydrate them. This is what I’m using now, although I do feed kibble and canned with them. I’m using Stella & Chewy’s, Primal, and have some Vital Essentials coming. Canned food contains moisture, which is also great for the dog. Again, I’m sorry your pup is experiencing this. Our breed, as a whole, is burdened with these illnesses and it’s so sad. If I were you, I’d pick some 4-5 star grain free canned food and contact the companies to see what the sodium level is in them and go from there. I have 2 other Cavs at home, both females….Hazel (Black & Tan) and Laverne (Ruby). Hazel has a grade 2 murmur, but so far, Laverne is fine. Actually they’re both doing very well, atm. They both share the same birthday, lol, and Hazel will be 6 this August and Laverne will be 8. Good luck to you with your little one!

[mbigdogs]

Hi Everyone
I guess I don’t have to mention that two dogs over 200 pounds can eat a significant amount of food. I want to buy them the best food I can afford and still pay my mortgage 🙂 The bull mastiff is under a year old and the saint bernard is almost 3. They are amazing loving dogs and I want them to stay healthy as long as possible. It is difficult to buy enough cans for dogs this size. I watched the video about which kind to buy. How about a mixture of canned and dry? With all the recalls now I am just getting confused on what I should purchase that is good for both of them. I am also scared about treats since Petco just literally pulled almost the entire dog section off the shelves. I do make some of my own treats for them. It is just difficult to make homemade food for dogs this size and work full time. Can someone suggest some good options for what would be cost effective and yet as healthy as I can get for them? Thank you very much for your help.

• This topic was modified 13 years, 2 months ago by mbigdogs.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi DrYattz –

You really can’t give a healthy dog too much protein. Most of the Solid Gold formulas (aside from Barking at the Moon) are actually low in protein, so I doubt that was the issue. My dogs eat a raw diet with 45%-55% protein at each meal – about twice as much protein as is in most kibbles. As far as worrying about availability I’d recommend you get your dogs used to rotating foods. Switching between brands and protein sources is MUCH healthier than feeding the same food day in and day out. Once you get your dogs used to it you shouldn’t even have to transition between foods. Before I switched to raw when my oldest was on kibble I got a new brand of food with a new protein source every 2-3 weeks and a rotated canned food toppers daily – he had no digestive issues. All three of my dogs now eat raw and get something different at each meal – no issues here either. The Ol Roy Pure Balance looks like a decent budget friendly food, it’s low in protein and fat though so it’s a good thing you’re adding the chicken.

[DrYattz]

We have three hounds: Annabelle (a golden retriever), Nellie (a black lab/beagle), and Sophie (who looks like an albino brittany spaniel). After years of struggling to feed them all well, we began giving them a mix of chicken (boiled, shredded leg meat) and dry food. The dry food remains the issue: Solid Gold (too high protein?) made their stools green and slimey, and IAMS Healthy Naturals appears to be provoking an allergic reaction in Sophie. She spends hours licking and chewing her paws and her butt, and the fur under her tail is now a deep brown color. (The other dogs appear to be doing quite well.)

One issue is our lifestyle: we travel a great deal, generally with the dogs. It has happened several times that we find ourselves running out of dogfood in a remote corner of Georgia or Virginia. The availability of the chicken is never a problem, but certain dry foods can be impossible to find. So, we switched to the Iams because we could get it at WalMart or Kroger fairly easily. Yes, we could be better organized and order large stocks of something less readily available, but the convenience of grabbing a bag of dry food in St. Simons (rather than driving two hours to Savannah) is difficult to give up.

We are looking at Ol Roy Pure Balance Lamb and Brown Rice. But we wonder if, with lots of protein and fat coming from the chicken we give them twice a day, if we shouldn’t consider something else. Any guidance would be appreciated.

[matt1186]

I’m a manager at a pet store and I’m continually trying to improve my knowledge on pet food so I can help people as best as I possibly can. My problem is that I have a lot of customers that feed their dogs vegetarian dry dog foods and every seemingly factual article I find advises against it. I wanted to know if there is anyone on the forum that does and if there is any proven benefits to it.

Thanks,
Matt

[busterbrown]

My 12 year old Boston Terrier is in great health, but has had tummy issues. We have switched him from dry to wet which resolved his nausea, but he eating 2 cans a day and is still too skinny. He has been on 2 cans a day since the middle of Dec. and is not really putting on weight. He is eating w/d low gastrointestinal, which is a low fat food. Can we switch him to a higher fat food? This is our trusted vet’s recommendation, but we would like to see him get back up to his optimal weight of 25 lbs.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi hvnlysrph –

There’s no reason to “transition” a healthy dog from food to food regardless of if you’re feeding canned or dry. If your dog is accustomed to eating the same food and has eaten the same food for a long period of time you many initially find that you need to transition, however once your dog gets used to switching foods you shouldn’t need to. When my dog ate dry food I got a new brand with a new protein source at the end of every bag (every 2-3 weeks) and rotated canned food toppers daily. All of my dogs now eat a raw diet and get something different at each meal. None have any digestive issues with switching. Switching brands and varieties is the healthiest thing you can do.

[hvnlysrph]

I was wondering if someone could help me understand about canned dog food (as we just adopted a dog who will only eat canned dog food). I know you should transition when changing dry dog food, but do I need to stick to the same flavor of canned food or can I switch up flavors if they are in the same brand without doing a transition?

[sisu]

Science Diet CD has 413 calories per cup. According to their feeding chart a 10 lb. dog should receive 3/4 to 1 cup per day. Dog food manufacturers often over state the amount that should be fed to sell more product. For example, my 15 – 16 lb. dogs get a little less to a level cup of a food that is 415 calories per cup. Feed 1/4 cup twice a day and the weight should come off.

Link to previous DFA review and discussion of Science Diet CD.
/dog-food-reviews/hills-prescription-diet-cd-canine-dry/

Hills Science Diet site with nutrition, feeding and calorie information:
http://www.hillspet.com/products/pd-canine-cd-canine-urinary-tract-health-dry.html

[sisu]

I am having difficulty posting in the reviews section.

Chrome 23.0.1271.97 m. Cookies are set to allow local data to be set, and block 3rd party
cookies and site data. Exceptions are disqus.com and dogfoodadvisor.com

I can log in at the forum with no difficulty. Rather I have logged in from the forum or
not the warning box remains on all review pages. “Warning: A browser setting is preventing
you from logging in. Fix this setting to log in” Attempts to log in directly from any
review page results in an invalid password message. I am 99% certain the correct password
is being used. Thinking I could be wrong I did attempt to change the password from a review
page login. The email with instructions has not been received. It is as if the review
section does not see the password used in the forum. There is no difference if AdBlock and
Avast are disabled.

Changing the browser setting to accept 3rd party cookies removes the cookie warning message
from the review pages but the invalid password message remains. This indicates that part of
the problem is that the Disqus software does not see the cookie exceptions.

I have opened/closed/rebooted so many times that I am confused. I did manage to post one
reply on a review page. I think I had logged in at the forum. Then, went to reply at the
bottom of the post to which I was replying. At the post as selection I entered my email
address or username and password which allowed the post to go through. I am fairly certain
the browser setting warning message was on the screen when the post went through. Tried to
post another reply tonight. It appeared as if it had post but is not on the Nutro Natrual
Choice (dry) page.

It is as if the forum and reviews sections are using different software. The login,
password and perhaps the email address from the forums section is not seen by the reviews
software. The reviews software knows my username exists because I attempted to register
after having registered at the forum. The reviews software apparently is not reading the
cookie exceptions.

The only idea I have at this point is that the reviews software requires a more secure
password than used when registering at the forum. Thus, it reads nothing beyond the
username.

[sisu]

I am sorry to hijack this thread but I am unable to begin a new topic in the forum or reply in the review section. This is happening with Chrome and IE 8. Below are details in regard to what has been tried.

Chrome 23.0.1271.97 m. Cookies are set to allow local data to be set, and block 3rd party cookies and site data. Exceptions are disqus.com and dogfoodadvisor.com

IE 8. Set to the lowest privacy. No cookies blocked.

I can log in at the forum with no difficulty. Rather I have logged in from the forum or not the warning box remains on all review pages. “Warning: A browser setting is preventing you from logging in. Fix this setting to log in” Attempts to log in directly from any review page results in an invalid password message. I am 99% certain the correct password is being used. Thinking I could be wrong I did attempt to change the password from a review page login. The email with instructions has not been received. It is as if the review section does not see the password used in the forum. There is no difference if AdBlock and Avast are disabled.

Changing the browser setting to accept 3rd party cookies removes the cookie warning message from the review pages but the invalid password message remains. This indicates that part of the problem is that the Disqus software does not see the cookie exceptions.

I have opened/closed/rebooted so many times that I am confused. I did manage to post one reply on a review page. I think I had logged in at the forum. Then, went to reply at the bottom of the post to which I was replying. At the post as selection I entered my email address or username and password which allowed the post to go through. I am fairly certain the browser setting warning message was on the screen when the post went through. Tried to post another reply tonight. It appeared as if it had post but is not on the Nutro Natural Choice (dry) page.

It is as if the forum and reviews sections are using different software. The login, password and perhaps the email address from the forums section is not seen by the reviews software. The reviews software knows my username exists because I attempted to register after having registered at the forum. The reviews software apparently is not reading the cookie exceptions.

The only idea I have at this point is that the reviews software requires a more secure password than used when registering at the forum. Thus, it reads nothing beyond the username.

[InkedMarie]

I would not call them raw if they aren’t. I’ve never fed a freeze dried but I think, years back, that THK called their food dehydrated raw but they don’t anymore. To ME, raw is just that, raw food, not cooked. For that reason, I’d think it should be dry, canned, frozen, freeze dried and dehydrated

[Jens]

Due to having a life besides my dogs, but having the desire to feed them a healthy raw diet, I was wondering what is a simply reciept to feed them daily the same food home made mix. I have two old Malamute/Retriever mixes and two young 3 months old puppies. All are currently on Orijen (large breed and adult) dry food, which they like and do well on. Also, how do you grind your meat, especially the bones and does anybody have a recommendation for a meat grinder.

[Mom2Cavs]

While I’m not familiar with Canyon Creek’s food (I believe it’s fairly new), I do know that their chicken jerky treats are “accused” of causing illness in pets. SORRY…I do realize that is not the question you have, though I just wanted to let you know. My opinion on food is this…..if a food works, then it’s technically a 5 star for the dog! I do want to clarify a little, though. I personally won’t feed below 3 star, won’t even try it for one of my dogs. I have, and would again if necessary, use a 3 star food if it worked the best. Believe me, I have fed the gamut of foods to my 4 dogs. They are all technically seniors now. Currently, I’m feeding Merrick Classic (“gasp” a grain inclusive food!) and will top it with canned food or freeze dried raw food that is rehydrated. I also use Fromm GF dry, and Simply Nourish (both dry and canned), which is Petsmart’s house brand. I will use Weruva canned and Merrick canned, as well. I have an old Cavalier that only eats the freeze dried raw now. In fact, she is the reason I started with it (just trying to get her to eat again as she has a neurological issue). So sorry for the long rant lol….just remember no food works for all dogs, and your dog is your responsibility and it is your decision on what works, what you can afford, what your dog will eat, etc. I’m thrilled you have educated yourself on dog food, though, and can make an informed choice. You have the best interest of your dog at heart! 🙂

[InkedMarie]

Good morning all and thanks to those who responded. I apologize for taking so long in coming back to my own thread!
A few questions. Some of you have seen that we have another sheltie coming in the next couple of weeks. She’s in foster care but I don’t have a whole lot of info on her. She is 9 or 10, apparently healthy except for her teeth. She is in desperate need for a dental and after looking at her mouth, she has some extractions coming. She will have the dental and get spayed this week or next, then coming home with me. So, here is the rundown on the dogs:

Boone-almost 7, allergy and/or yeast issues. He will stay on Darwins in the morn and Brothers in the
afternoon.
Ginger-2.5yrs old, currently eating THK in the morn (Darwins a couple times a week) and Dr. Tim’s grain
inclusive (Pursuit) in the afternoon. She has no issues outside of frequent pooping on anything except
the same regimen as Boone but due to cost, can’t continue with that so that is why we’re trying the
Pursuit

Gemma-new gal coming. She currently eats Purina ONE chicken & rice senior. Even with her icky mouth
that must hurt, she eats dry food. I have THK Zeal here and Wellness Core’s salmon topper. Thinking
I should mix either the THK or canned with Ginger’s kibble. If I see any signs of arthritis or anything,
I will put her on Brothers since it’s grainfree.

So, what do you smarter than me DFA friends think I should do for probiotics and enzymes? Should they all get both? Kefir….where do you buy that? Is that something you order? Is it a pill or powder?

[bully4me]

Hi everyone, I’m new on here! I have a question for all of you: You’ve heard of the Beasty Boys? I have a yeasty boy. My male bulldog, a rescue and I’m almost 100% certain a puppy mill dog, is over-run with yeast issues. Smelly ears full of gunk, crusty eyes, rashes on belly. Any suggestions for a good dry food for him? Thank you in advance!

[soho]

Hi HDM and Patty

On the EVO website the carbohydrate percentages are listed like this: Carbohydrates NFE (Max) 12.0 %. NFE stands for nitrogen free extract. Nitrogen free extract is what is left after the moisture, protein, fat, fiber, and minerals have been removed from the food.
So it looks like the carbohydrates listed on EVO”s website are based on a dry matter calculation.

Hi pugmomsandy

Pancreatitis is inflammation and swelling of the pancreas. The causes of pancreatitis in dogs are still not that clear. Certain drugs like corticosteroids increase a dogs chance of getting pancreatitis.. Dogs with Cushing’s disease, diabetes, hypothyroidism, and some forms of hyperlipemia are also at increased risk to develop Pancreatitis. I am by no means an expert on pancreatitis.

So although one of the causes of Pancreatitis may be a diet that is high in fat, the devastation that diabetes can cause to a dog has to be considered very carefully when choosing a diet for the diabetic dog. Choosing a diet based on carbohydrate content as long as the protein levels are adequate is NEVER “misleading” as you stated in your reply. Each dog is different and everything about the dog must be considered whether or not the dog has diabetes. That being said carbohydrates are the single most problematic ingredient for any dog with diabetes.

[lizemma]

Shawna, thanks so much for the information. It is encouraging to hear how well your puppy is doing. That website you provided the link for is a really good resource too.

I heard about the need for moisture. Right now I add a B Complex liquid to her low phosphorus kidney kibbles, but they are still fairly dry. I don’t mind adding home cooked food, but I’m going to get some guidance in that area.

Does your dog also have high blood pressure? It quite often goes along with kidney disease. My dog has this as well so she will have to take blood pressure pills. They are going to monitor her closely, but if her kidneys don’t have to work so hard, then maybe it will go down and I won’t have to give her that extra med.

The nitrogen trapping isn’t anything my Vet suggested so I will definitely bring that up when I consult with another Vet on this. My puppy, Emma, is 12, turning 13 this year. She is a small dog and I want her around for a long time, living a quality life so I want to do all that I can for her!

[Hound Dog Mom]

The carbohydrate content listed on EVO’s website isn’t on a dry matter basis, however the carbohydrate content Dr. Mike has listed is still way off the mark. EVO lists the carbohydrate content as 12% – converting percents to a dry matter basis for kibble doesn’t alter anything significantly as the moisture content of kibble is so low -and converting to dry matter basis only changes it by 1%, it’s 13% carbohydrates (max) on a dry matter basis. 13% is a big difference from the 21% carbohydrates stated on the EVO review. Like Sandy said, Dr. Mike estimates the ash content, so the carbohydrate contents listed on his reviews are most generally not going to be accurate, they give a good idea but without the actual ash content there’s no way of knowing the actual carbohydrate content. If someone really wanted the actual carbohydrate content of a food they’re better off contacting the company directly.

[soho]

Hi Mike,

From my understanding Mike S uses a formula to estimate the carbohydrate content of foods. If he had access to the exact percentages of every ingredient in the food he could calculate the carb content more accurately.

On the EVO website they list the carbs in the Guaranteed analysis tab and the foods are as follows:
Turkey and Chicken, Carbohydrates 12% Max
Herring and Salmon, Carbohydrates 18% Max
Red Meat, Carbohydrates 15% Max

So the actual carb content of EVO’s dog foods is between 12% and 18%. At that low level the binder (potatoes) would not affect the blood sugar as much as let’s say a food that was 30% carbs and used lentils as a binder. Let’s not forget that the overall carbohydrate content of a food is very important and that the lower the carbs the better the food is going to be for a diabetic dog.

As far as kibbles go these foods are the lowest in carbs that I know of. If anyone knows of other kibbles this low in Carbohydrates please let me know!

Adding fresh foods like meats or fish to any kibble is going to lower the overall carb content and improve the overall quality of the kibble. As for Brother’s kibbles I don’t think I would classify the 35% dry matter basis carbohydrate content as a minimal binder or a low carbohydrate food. Again the carb content of Brother’s kibbles on DFA is just an estimate and anyone who knows the actual carb content please let me know!

[soho]

Hi Everyone,

I would like to discuss diet and diabetes. Diabetes is a huge subject to tackle whether it is in regard to people or to pets. I wanted to start the conversation with the question;

“What should I feed my Diabetic dog?”

Without going into the science of Diabetes which would be a very long and complex conversation let’s just discuss what you can do in regards to your dog’s diet to help them live a longer and healthier life.

I have been dealing with my own diabetes for 28 years now and I worked for a Doctor of Osteopathy as a diabetes educator in her Manhattan, NY office. For the last eight years I have counseled many dog guardians on the subject of canine diabetes. I have seen literally thousands of dogs with every kind of health issue through my work with the non profit FreePlay which educates the public on the benefits of off leash recreation areas and with The Pet Wash a local grooming and retail establishment.

The good news is you can really make a difference in your diabetic dog’s well being through their diet. The bad news is diabetes is an insidious disease that can rob your dog of their sight and their life if left unmanaged.

The Canine Ancestral diet which is approximately 55% protein 25 to 30% fat and 15% carbohydrate or on a calorie weighted basis 50% of calories are from protein, 44% from fat, and only 6% from carbohydrate is a good starting point to consider in trying to help the diabetic dog through diet.

The ancestral diet is so low in carbohydrates that it is tailor made for a diabetic dog. You can prepare this type of diet at home using human grade meats and vegetables which we will discuss in another post or you can try to feed your dog a similar diet using commercial foods. I would recommend starting with a balanced raw diet that does not contain bones and lightly cooking it. I would cook it lightly because a lot of diabetic dogs are not in the best health and their ability to deal with the bacteria and microbes that are in the raw food is probably compromised.

Second choice would be a dehydrated food such as The Honest Kitchen. THK is a quality food that uses only human grade ingredients in all of their formulas. The problem with THK is it is lower in protein that what I would suggest. This can be remedied by adding about 20% lightly cooked meat to each of the recipes. I would stick with similar proteins like fowl for the turkey or chicken formulas, fish for the fish formulas and red meat for the beef formulas.

Next would be a canned food that has no grains or other starches like potatoes. I would look for a canned food that was mostly meats with a little vegetables.

Lastly would be kibble. Kibbles require starch to bind the ingredients. They also are the most processed of all the commercial diets available for dogs. They also are dry and nutrient dense. I would suggest that a diabetic dog be fed a high moisture diet like a fresh food or a dehydrated after it is rehydrated or a canned food. Moisture helps ease the burden of the kidneys which are one of the organs that are affected by diabetes.

If you must feed a kibble for whatever reason then I would look to a kibble like EVO which is only 12 percent carbohydrates. The lowest carb highest protein kibble would be the only kibble I would consider feeding a dog with diabetes. Unfortunately once a dog has diabetes the controlling of this disease would be of paramount importance to me and I would no longer be as concerned with considering all of the qualities of an individual dog food and I would mostly focus on feeding a high protein, low carbohydrate and high moisture diet

Questions anyone?

• This topic was modified 13 years, 2 months ago by soho.

[pugmomsandy]

weimlove,

I can get it for $13 each or $12.30 for a case of 20 but then shipping would need to be accounted for. Unfortunately I don’t go to the post office much to know about prices. I’m sure one could fit several freeze dried packages in one of those “if it fits, it ships” boxes. But someone would have to do the math and see if that’s cheaper than raw frozen with shipping. The freeze dried weight is actually .44 lb (which makes 1 lb rehydrated) but I just give them a couple pieces dry in their food bowl or just as treats.

[billhill]

I have a question about supplementing dry kibble. I’ve begun to supplement kibble, alternating things such as hardboiled eggs + greenbeans, canned kirkland cuts in gravy, canned unsalted sardines, etc. I understand the point that variation and addition of high quality protein are good. This also makes my puppies happy (2 yr old corgie/lab, 2 yr old beagle/walker hound).

In the 1970’s and 80’s, I learned about the phenomenon of protein “complementarity” in human diets, i.e. protein supplements and combinations from different sources (EXAMPLES: beans and rice in Mexican cuisine, rice and lentils in Indian cuisine). If a specific amino acid is low in one source, it can be balanced out by the proteins in another source. I’m no longer a strict vegetarian, but I can attest from personal experience that this works. I still love vegetarian food.

QUESTION 1: Does this work for dogs? Can adding eggs increase the benefit of other proteins in the doggie bowl?

QUESTION 2: Do dogs have a “preferential” metabolism that burns carbs before proteins? If so has inclusion of carbs been shown to reduce the benefit of proteins in the dogs’ diets?

QUESTION 3: How would I calculate the impact of adding dried egg white or canned sardines to the kibble of each of my roughly 30 lb dogs in terms of additional protein, protein as % weight. Each gets 1 cup of small bites kibble, twice a day.

Looking forward to informed opinions. Thanks.

Bill

[Anonymous]

Honeybeesmom1, I am happy to report that after being on the Pepcid AC, we have not had any a single issue with the getting sick. I’m sorry I scared you, but I really think it is the dog, not the food, as my other three dogs didn’t have any problems at all and I work from home, so I can spot any issues immediately. I really think Abby, the pure labrador, is just not as genetically “tough” as the other three mixed breeds are with ‘stomachs of steel’ as cast offs that I took in as puppies, so they’ve “been around” and their bodies have never acted this way towards ANYTHING they’ve eaten! 🙂 In the 4.5 years I’ve had the lab, she’s had to go to the vet almost more times than my other three dogs have all put together, including each ones’ spaying/neuter trip, if that tells you anything. One is 9 and the two brother/sister pair are 12 1/2, so that’s a lot of trips! lol They all eat the same food, roam the same areas, except Princess Abby demands (as in stands at the door and whines or barks and if that doesn’t work, gets on the windows and ledges and scratches at them) to be indoors most of the time. The others are just happy to have beds, food and water and don’t care to be inside 99% of the time. Thank goodness. In any case, I wish the vet tech I had talked on the phone to over a week ago shortly after this first started had told me to try an antacid, but all the googling in the world never mentioned it as a possible form of relief. So there you know, for future reference. $24.xx dollar lesson learned. And just fyi, wag.com came through in this whole dog food mess. Without even being asked they sent out another bag of food basically overnight when the original bag I ordered seemed to get hung up in the system and could not be tracked, and gave me 50% off the original one I ordered for the inconvenience. Both bags arrived today, so everybody is now off raw/canned and back on dry. I wish I lived near a place that sold the 4.5-5 star foods reasonable, but I don’t. Luckily, with extrabux, fatwallet, ebates, and shopathome, I can usually find a cash rebate place to shop from and all the food is over the $49 min. for free shipping as well as any other discounts the company is offering, including wag.com’s 5% rebate applied to your next order and in their case, you have your food in about 2 days. ALWAYS. It’s nice not having to lug 25-50 lbs. worth of dog food in and out of the car trunk, over to the bin, etc etc. UPS just brings it to the door.

[Toxed2loss]

Tapioca is one of the alternative starches being used in higher end kibbles. Its gluten free, non-GMO, and when properly processed, non-toxic. In order to make, and bind kibble you must use a certain amount of starch. Tapioca is a good choice in that it is nontoxic, gluten & lectin free.

There is a lot of misinformation being disseminated about tapioca, so lets review the facts and set the record straight. There are no poisonings from properly processed tapioca flour. In fact, most poisonings occur in famine stricken areas where the starving individuals try to take short cuts in processing the raw cassava or manioc root. This is well documented. Tapioca has been safely consumed for thousands of years and is the main staple starch in African, Indonesian and South American diets. “500 million people rely on cassava as their main source of calories, among them subsistence farmers in Sub-Saharan Africa…”Richard Sayre, a professor of plant biology at Ohio State University
—-

“The Culprit in Cassava Toxicity: Cyanogens or Low Protein?
by G. Padmaja

The starchy roots of cassava (Manihot esculenta Crantz) are already a staple for about 500 million people of tropical Africa, Asia, and Latin America, but countless others might also benefit from this food if it were not for the sensationalism that sometimes surrounds the crop’s potential toxicity.
The cassava plant carries two cyanogenic glucosides, linamarin and lotaustralin, in its edible roots and leaves. The amounts of these potentially toxic compounds vary considerably, according to cultivar and growing conditions. “Sweet” varieties usually have such small amounts as to be innocuous, whereas “bitter” varieties have sufficiently high levels to require domestic processing to remove most of the toxins.

In situations where famine or extreme poverty may force a population to eat poorly processed cassava in a diet that is also deficient in nutrients such as protein, the plant’s cyanogenic glucosides can lead to poisoning. A classic case was the infantile kwashiorkor epidemic in famine-stricken Biafra in 1968, but there have also been recent examples of spastic paraparesis, or konzo, in drought-stricken regions of Mozambique and Tanzania.

Detoxifying cassava

Farming populations who cultivate cassava have developed many methods of detoxifying cassava. Boiling and drying are sufficient to make low-cyanogen cultivars safe for consumption, but more rigorous procedures such as grating, fermenting, and sun-drying, are necessary to effectively remove cyanogens from cultivars of higher toxicity.

The protein link

Whenever a chronic disease has been linked to cassava consumption, the victims have also been found to suffer from protein deficiency, suggesting a relationship between the two.

Protein is essential for all the body’s vital functions, and for eliminating certain dietary toxins. With the help of the enzyme rhodanese, the human body detoxifies cyanide by forming thiocyanate. When the body is regularly exposed to cassava cyanogens, the increased synthesis of rhodanese makes extra demands on the body’s reserves of amino acids, the building blocks of proteins. To detoxify 1.0 mg hydrocyanic acid (HCN), the body also needs a daily supply of about 1.2 mg of dietary sulfur (S) from S- containing amino acids (SAA). If the demand for rhodanese and SAA is prolonged, as in the regular consumption of cassava, and the diet is inadequate, the synthesis of many proteins vital for bodily functions may be impaired, leading to the development of protein deficiency diseases.

Cassava – low protein source

Cyanogens alone cannot be blamed for toxicity because other cyanogenic crops, such as sorghum and Lathyrus bean, which are widely used as food, cause few toxicity problems. But the protein contents of these two crops (11.0% and 18.7%, respectively) are higher.

Many cassava products contain very low amounts of cyanogens, which can be efficiently eliminated by the body, if the protein intake is adequate. Cassava roots, being bulky and rich in carbohydrates, free dietary proteins from having to meet the body’s energy needs, thus allowing them to be used more efficiently. However, the level of protein in cassava lags far behind the levels found in rice, wheat, and tuber crops (Figure 1). An adult consuming 1 kg of cassava has to ingest 52 g of protein from other sources to obtain the U.S. recommended daily allowance (RDA) of 65 g protein per adult. In contrast, 1 kg of wheat supplies 121 g of protein and rice, 61 to 64 g of protein.

If protein intake is more than adequate for both general metabolic requirements and cyanide elimination, toxic effects are lessened or even eliminated, even if cassava is improperly processed. (Fatal poisoning can result from ingestion of large amounts of unprocessed or poorly processed high-cyanogen cassava.) Hence, the lack of protein in cassava roots is probably responsible for most non-fatal cases of cyanide poisoning associated with cassava.”
http://www.worldbank.org/html/cgiar/newsletter/Oct96/6cassava.html
——-
Notice it was cassava and not tapioca, that caused the poisonings. Notice also that they weren’t in the US, but in impoverished areas, in developing nations, and there was a lack of sufficient dietary protein.
——-

Nutritional profile of cassava
Cassava root is essentially a carbohydrate source.[27] Its composition shows 60–65 percent moisture, 20–31 percent carbohydrate, 1–2 percent crude protein and a comparatively low content of vitamins and minerals. However, the roots are rich in calcium and vitamin C and contain a nutritionally significant quantity of thiamine, riboflavin and nicotinic acid. Cassava starch contains 70 percent amylopectin and 20 percent amylose. Cooked cassava starch has a digestibility of over 75 percent.
Cassava root is a poor source of protein. Despite the very low quantity, the quality of cassava root protein is fairly good in terms of essential amino acids. Methionine, cysteine and cystine are, however, limiting amino acids in cassava root.
http://www.ask.com/wiki/Cassava
——

THE HEALTH BENEFITS OF TAPIOCA
Aug 5, 2011 | By Kristi Wray

Conventionally, tapioca, derived from the cassava plant, is best known as a creamy pudding dessert with little sustenance. However, in some in areas like Africa, Asia and South America, tapioca is known better for its nutritional benefits than as a sweet treat. When eaten raw or incorrectly prepared, the plant releases poisonous properties. Thus, tapioca must be prepared correctly to prevent harm and ensure safe eating.

STARCH EQUALS ENERGY
The cassava plant is a root vegetable and a healthy source of carbohydrates. In many countries, it serves as a main dish because of its high starch content. Even better, it is considered a healthy starch because it is low in cholesterol and unhealthy fats. Tapioca can be included in dietary plans to promote healthy weight gain.

GLUTEN-FREE
People suffering with Celiac disease or other conditions that restrict the use of gluten-based foods can use tapioca as an alternative to recipes that use wheat flour. Tapioca flour, which does not contain any gluten, is a healthier alternative to wheat flour. Both tapioca flour and tapioca starch can be used as a thickening agent in cream-based sauces and gravies.

MINERALS
Calcium, phosphorous, potassium and magnesium can be found in tapioca in varying amounts. If you are preparing a more processed form of the root, like a pudding mix, you will receive a smaller amount of these minerals than if you were to consume tapioca starch or flour. Tapioca is also a good source of iron, and, in particular, dry tapioca pearls contain up to 13 percent of your daily value of iron. B-vitamins, including folic acid, which is extremely vital for pregnant women, are also found in tapioca.

DIETARY FIBER
Over the years, the U.S. Department of Agriculture has placed extreme importance on the consumption of dietary fiber on a daily basis for a healthier lifestyle. The cassava root has a significant amount of dietary fiber in its natural form. According to the USDA, foods high in dietary fiber can help lower cholesterol, decrease the rate of colon cancer, and lower the risk of diabetes and heart disease.” http://www.livestrong.com/article/509033-the-health-benefits-of-tapioca/
—–

So there you have it. A factual picture of tapioca starch, without the scare tactics.

[Anonymous]

Just wanted to pass this along to anyone who price shops their food and stumbles across this site. I recently purchased two bags of Earthborn Holistic Great Plains Feast Grain-Free Dry Dog Food, 28-Pound Bag for around $41.50 per bag, delivered, which isn’t a bad deal. I had the food in 2 days! On my second order, which I placed on 12/14, things went horribly wrong and thus began my quest to help any and all other pet owners avoid this horrible, horrible company. On 12/20, 6 days after I placed my order (remember, only took 2 days the first time), I received 1 of the 2 bags I had ordered. When I called, I was told another would be sent out to me. On 12/21, I received an e-mail stating that the missing bag of food was scheduled to ship 12/22. On 12/31, having run out of the one bag of food that they did send, I tried calling them to find out where that other bag was since it had been 9 days. Of course, they were closed both 12/31 and 1/1, so I sent an e-mail. Today, I finally get a response around noon that just basically said, your item will ship in a few days. This was AFTER my lengthy e-mail about running out of primary food, back up food and having bad weather (0 temps) to boot. No apology, no nothing, just that it would be sent soon. So I called. And I asked for a supervisor, since the lady on the phone was the same lady that sent the e-mail (I suspect they are a small operation), she told me she was a supervisor and the other/her? supervisor was not available. She ended up hanging up on me because I was mad and then sent me another e-mail saying the bag would be shipping soon, as they were out of stock and had talked to their supplier. I e-mailed her back the e-mail I had gotten from another rep on 12/21 saying it was shipping 12/22 and told her there must be a mistake because I had an e-mail stating it was shipping 12/22 and to have a supervisor call me immediately. That was an hour and a half ago and still no call, so I’m going viral, letting everyone and their dog(s) know to stay away from this company. They have an 89% satisfaction rating on Amazon and a C rating on the Better Business Bureau, even though they say it is an “A” on their facebook page. Lying apparently comes pretty easy to this company and having been in customer service in many instances, including my parents having their own retail business, having one with my ex and also being self employed myself now, I just cannot fathom how these people act and are allowed to act. I refuse to support companies that don’t care if they keep me as a customer or not. If my spending $80+ dollars every couple of weeks for a few months on dog food is not important to them, I’ll find someone else who it does matter to. The small savings from using them was sure not worth this. And the saddest part is if they had just e-mailed me and told me that my order was going to be delayed, I would have made arrangements (around all the holidays) to have food on hand instead of counting on them to deliver any day only to find it was never shipped. Thank goodness for wag.com and their super quick delivery. So far, they have really stood out. I hope I didn’t just jinx them. 🙂 So in conclusion, (for those that saw the length and just skipped to the bottom) avoid ozbo.com like the plague. Money is too tight to support companies that treat their customers so poorly.

[Melissaandcrew]

HI Ramona-

Sorry to hear you and your pooch are going through this. My dobergal has the same issues, and like yours, grain free did not make a lick of difference. I tried foods from “low level” up to home cooked, raw, grain free, grain inclusive, commercial raw etc etc. We would find a food, she would do well on it for a few months, and then suddenly, back to the same issues. For mine, probiotics and enzymes did not work, but for others they do. Unfortunately, its hit or miss. Recently, I put her on Abady granular, with their canned, and now a touch of dry(dave’s for sensitive stomachs) and so far so good. I think the dry causes more of an issue than the granular or canned however and may cut that out all together.

A quick fix to rest her digestive tract may be to have your vet prescribe metronidazole or tylan powder-tylan can be used long term, not the metronidazole.

[lizemma]

I’m looking for suggestions on a dog food that is low in phosphorus and works for a dog with allergies to chicken, turkey, lamb and pork. Before switching to a renal LP dog food, she was on a salmon and potato dry dog food. My Vet has said that there are no LP dog foods that are not chicken based. Is this correct? I am willing to make her dog food, but want to make sure I don’t miss any essential nutrition. Also, my Vet, who I have high respect for, is against a raw food diet.

[Hound Dog Mom]

weimlove –

It’s great that Shadow loved the raw fish – but be careful about which types of fish you feed raw. Salmon, trout and steelhead that are caught in the Pacific can carry “salmon poisoning.” If you want to feed any of these types of fish from this region they should be frozen for a least 2 weeks to kill the parasite.

I make my own wholefood multivitamin/mineral. I order my ingredients from starwest-botanicals.com. I mix equal parts: kelp, alfalfa, spirulina, chlorella, bee pollen, turmeric and garlic powder. You can do this if you want or if you want to make it simpler you can just mix equal parts kelp and alfalfa and that should be plenty. I’d give a dog the size of yours about 1 1/2 tsp. per day. You’ll need to supplement with vitamin e, for a dog the size of yours I’d give 200 i.u. daily or 400 i.u. every other day. Any vitamin e for humans will do, but I order mine from vitacost – I use the “Vitamin E & Tocotrienol Complex” because it has all 4 tocopherols and all 4 tocotrienols (most vitamin e supplements just contain alpha tocopherol). For fish oil I’m currently using Iceland Pure Sardine & Anchovy blend and Carlson cod liver oil, but any quality fish oils will do (I like buying in liquid form so I can mix it in with the food, but you could certainly get capsules if your dog will eat them). This is optional, but I do give my dogs coconut oil every other day and a plant-based omega 3-6-9 on the opposite days as the coconut oil.

I’d love to make you a menu plan, but because I don’t know exactly which cuts of meat will be available to you it’ll be more like a “template”. I’ll give some options and just use what you can get. One of my dogs – Gertie – is an active 70 lb. 2 year old as well so I’ll give you measurements based on what I would feed her. Obviously metabolisms vary from dog to dog so if you find this is too much or too little food feel free to reduce or increase the amounts, just keep everything proportionate. I’m also not sure how many times a day you feed, but I’ll assume you feed two meals a day.

Breakfast:
-5 mornings per week feed 12 oz. boneless red muscle meat (beef, lamb, buffalo, etc. – can use lean ground, chunks, heart, tripe, or some combination of these). 2 mornings per week feed 6 oz. liver and 6 oz. of another organ or any combination of other organs (kidney, spleen, lungs, pancreas, brain, etc.)
-1/2 C. cooked & pureed vegetables (whichever vegetables you want, can add fruit a couple times per week).
-Optional: 1/4 C. cottage cheese, kefir, plain yogurt or goat’s milk (can do this every day or a few days a week)
-1 1/2 tsp. whole food supplement (like a kelp-alfalfa blend or my homemade blend)
-1 tsp. fish oil (alternate between a fish body oil and cod liver oil)
-Optional: 1/2 tsp. coconut oil or a plant-based omega oil (like flax or evening primrose)
-Once or twice a week: 1 tsp ground pumpkin seeds, pecans, almonds or sunflower seeds
-3/4 tsp. ground egg shell (cheap source of calcium, leave eggshells out to dry then put them through a coffee grinder the next day) or 600-750 mg. of a calcium supplement of your choice (if your butcher sells meat/bone grinds for large animals like beef you could certainly use these and omit the calcium, but most butchers don’t have the equipment to grind heavy bones, so the calcium will have to be added separately)
-200 i.u. vitamin e (or 400 i.u. every other day)

*You can feed this same meal for breakfast daily, just rotate in new protein sources, switch up the extras (cottage cheese, yogurt, nuts and seeds, etc.) and feed a variety of vegetables and fruits.

Dinner (I often alternate between these two dinners for my dogs):
-Chicken back or leg quarter
-8 oz. Gizzards or hearts or boneless chicken (ground or chunks)
-Whole egg with shell
OR
-2 Turkey necks (about 6 oz. each)
-8 oz. Turkey hearts or gizzards or boneless turkey (ground or chunks)

Remember the more variety you can feed the better! Feed as many different protein sources as you can, using as many types of organs as possible, different vegetables and different fats. Each meal doesn’t have to supply every possible vitamin and mineral your dog needs, but over time the diet should balance. So the more variety you can feed the wider variety of nutrients your dog will get.

[Toxed2loss]

Hi Weimlove,
I do think he’s good for life. But its what you think that matters. 🙂 So here’s an excerpt from a post I made to Shawna, some time ago, talking about adjuvants. Adjuvants are the toxins they add to vaccines to stimulate the immune system into freaking out and attacking the viruses like its life or death, rather than a natural reaction, from a natural encounter with the virus, which in most cases, you wouldn’t even notice your dog was sick. The problem being, the adjuvants are poisons. It’s these poisons that cause the adverse vaccine reactions. I’ve included an example of vaccine induced hives. The more you know about vaccines and how they work, the more comfortably you can make a decision. After all, there’s still a risk, either way. Dogs (some) do die of vaccine reactions. Vaccinated dogs (some) can still get the viruses they were vaccinated for, and some unvaccinated dogs do get the viruses. You have to decide which risk is greater.

“vaccines are a significant and very real vector for impaired health in our pets. Here’s a couple of excerpts… Note the first one is on humans but multiple resources stated that adjuvants for humans are safer than for livestock… These examples are just a peek…

>>>> Is it mere coincidence that rates of autism increased when the Center for Disease Control inserted additions to the recommended vaccination program for infants in 1988? In the 1980s, autism rates were estimated at only six in 10,000 children. Today one in 150 children is autistic, though in some areas autism affects closer to one in 50 children. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has acknowledged that thimerosal can be a neurotoxin (knowing very well that mercury is a neurotoxin), and in 2004 stated that thimerosal-containing vaccines were associated with autism.
– Timeless Secrets of Health & Rejuvenation: Unleash The Natural Healing Power That Lies Dormant Within You by Andreas Moritz

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/027178_autism_vaccines.html#ixzz212cJmlYT”

Adjuvants! Toxic adjuvants are a major contributor to neurodegenerative diseases. Autism IS a neurodegenerative disease!!! Vaccines are one cause of autism… There are numerous other neurotoxins that cause autism as well. But this is a dog related site so firstI’ll give you the facts about adjuvants, then I’ll bring it back to vaccines in pets…

“A Glimpse into the Scary World of Vaccine Adjuvants
By Edda West – Published in VRAN Newsletter – Winter 2005

http://www.vran.org
Adjuvants are formulated compounds, which when combined with vaccine antigens intensify the body’s immune response. They are used to elicit an early, high and long-lasting immune response. “The chemical nature of adjuvants, their mode of action and their reactions (side effect) are highly variable in terms of how they affect the immune system and how serious their adverse effects are due to the resultant hyperactivation of the immune system. While adjuvants enable the use of less *antigen to achieve the desired immune response and reduce vaccine production costs, with few exceptions, adjuvants are foreign to the body and cause adverse reactions”, writes Australian scientist Viera Scheibner Ph.D, (1)

The most common adjuvant for human use is an aluminum salt called alum derived from aluminum hydroxide, or aluminum phosphate. A quick read of the scientific literature reveals that the neurotoxic effects of aluminum were recognized 100 years ago. Aluminum is a neurotoxicant and has been linked to Alzheimer’s disease and other neurological disorders. Prior to 1980, kidney patients undergoing long term dialysis treatments often suffered dialysis encephalopathy syndrome, the result of acute intoxication by the use of an aluminium-containing dialysate. This is now avoided using modern techniques of water purification. In preterm infants, prolonged intravenous feeding with solutions containing aluminum is associated with impaired neurologic development. Scientists speculate that aluminum neurotoxicity may be related to cell damage via free radical production, impairment of glucose metabolism, and effects on nerve signal transduction. (2) Vaccines which contain both aluminum adjuvants and mercury based preservative, greatly magnify the neurotoxic effects. (3)…” http://www.vaclib.org/basic/adjuvants.htm

Immunology and Cell Biology (2004) 82, 488–496 Special Feature Vaccine adjuvants: Current state and future trends NIKOLAI PETROVSKY1 and JULIO CÉSAR AGUILAR2 1 Autoimmunity Research Unit, ANU Medical School, Australian National University, Canberra, ACT 2061, Australia and Vaccines Division, Center for Genetic Engineering and Biotechnology, Ave. 31 e 158 y 190, Cubanacán, Apdo 6162, Ciudad, Habana, Cuba 2 Summary

“… In addition, alum has the potential to cause severe local and systemic side-effects including sterile abscesses, eosinophilia and myofascitis, although fortunately most of the more serious side-effects are relatively rare. There is also community concern regarding the possible role of aluminium in neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer’s disease. ..

…Adverse reactions to adjuvants can be classified as local or systemic. Important local reactions include pain, local inflammation, swelling, injection site necrosis, lymphadenopathy, granulomas, ulcers and the gen- eration of sterile abscesses. Systemic reactions include nausea, fever, adjuvant arthritis, uveitis, eosinophilia, allergy, anaphylaxis, organ specific toxicity and immunotoxicity (i.e. the liberation of cytokines, immunosuppression or auto- immune diseases).22,23 Unfortunately, potent adjuvant action is often correlated with increased toxicity, as exemplified by the case of FCA which although potent is too toxic for human use…

…Adjuvant regulatory requirements Regulations for the human use of adjuvants are far more rigorous than those applied to veterinary vaccines..

…Quil A has been used successfully for veterinary applications. 44 It is a natural product composed of more than 23 different saponins and is generally considered too toxic for human use…”

Quil A is just one example of the more toxic adjuvants used. I choose this quote because it comes out and states it directly, leaving no room for misconstruing.
—–
And I came across this. Maybe when people post about their pets dermitis and paw licking (etc.) the first question should be about their vaccination schedule?

“When a perfectly healthy individual is given viruses that cause illness, the animal is going to manifest illness-related symptoms. This healthy individual is asked to maintain a low-level stimulation of a state of distemper, a low level state of parvo, a low level state of rabies, and so on. As long as you are in a low level state of illness you are not in a high level state of health. Therefore, the vaccines provide protection by keeping the body in a diseased state of health. Often the animal will not manifest the illness it is vaccinated for, at least not in its acute form, but it will manifest in other conditions. Usually these conditions are inherited weaknesses.
Chronic symptoms look very much like the acute illnesses but they are often not life-threatening unless allowed to continue for years and years.

For distemper we often see:

Watery fluid dripping from the nose
Conjunctivitis, eye discharge, entropion
Chronic gastritis, hepatitis, pancreatitis, appetite disorders
Recurrent diarrhea
Sensitivity to food with resultant diarrhea
Epilepsy, rear leg paralysis, spondylitis
Lip fold dermatitis
Excessive licking of feet, eruptions between the toes, allergies
Kennel cough, chronic bronchitis
Chronic skin eruptions, especially lower half of body
Failure to thrive, abnormally thin

For rabies we often see:

Restless nature, suspicion of others, aggression to animals and people
Changes in behavior: aloofness, unaffectionate, desire to roam, OR clingy, separation anxiety, ‘velcro dog’
Restraining can lead to violent behavior and self-injury
Self-mutilation, tail chewing
Voice changes, hoarseness, excessive barking
Chronic poor appetite, very finicky
Paralysis of throat or tongue, sloppy eaters, drooling
Dry eye, loss of sight, cataract
Eating wood, stones, earth, stool
Destructive behavior, shredding bedding
Seizures, epilepsy, twitching
Increased sexual desire, sexual aggression
Irregular pulse, heart failure
Reverse sneezing

Some of the illnesses you are familiar with include any auto-immune disease such as lupus, red cell aplasia, auto-immune hemolytic anemia cardiomyopathies; neoplasias such as fibrosarcomas, mast cell tumors, thyroid tumors, etc.; inflammatory bowel disease, eczematous ears, any dermatological condition, warts, lipomas, poor hair coats, stomatitis, periodontal disease, thyroid disease, and the list goes on and on.

Now you could be wondering why I am so bold to ‘blame’ all these and more on vaccines. The reason is simple: I have an empirical, call it experimental lab where I visit daily and watch the animals, year after year. In the short years of my career I have seen the incredible increase in all these illnesses, some we never even learned in vet school. In fact, my vet school is now primarily an oncology treatment center! This was not the case a short 20 years ago. I have also spoken with many vets who have practiced longer than I and their response is the same. They did not see the level of chronic illness, nor the resistant and concretized type of illnesses that we see today. ” by: Dee Blanco who is a holistic veterinarian practicing in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

——

« Vaccinations | Main | Adverse Reactions »

Changing Vaccine Procotols – by W Jean Dodds, DVM

The challenge to produce effective and safe vaccines for the prevalent infectious diseases of humans and animals has become increasingly difficult. In veterinary medicine, evidence implicating vaccines in triggering immune-mediated and other chronic disorders (vaccinosis) is compelling. While some of these problems have been traced to contaminated or poorly attenuated batches of vaccine that revert to virulence, others apparently reflect the host’s genetic predisposition to react adversely upon receiving the single (monovalent) or multiple antigen “combo” (polyvalent) products given routinely to animals. Animals of certain susceptible breeds or families appear to be at increased risk for severe and lingering adverse reactions to vaccines.

The onset of adverse reactions to conventional vaccinations (or other inciting drugs, chemicals, or infectious agents) can be an immediate hypersensitivity or anaphylactic reaction, or can occur acutely (24-48 hours afterwards), or later on (10-45 days) in a delayed type immune response often caused by immune-complex formation. Typical signs of adverse immune reactions include fever, stiffness, sore joints and abdominal tenderness, susceptibility to infections, central and peripheral nervous system disorders or inflammation, collapse with autoagglutinated red blood cells and jaundice, or generalized pinpoint hemorrhages or bruises. Liver enzymes may be markedly elevated, and liver or kidney failure may accompany bone marrow suppression. Furthermore, recent vaccination of genetically susceptible breeds has been associated with transient seizures in puppies and adult dogs, as well as a variety of autoimmune diseases including those affecting the blood, endocrine organs, joints, skin and mucosa, central nervous system, eyes, muscles, liver, kidneys, and bowel. It is postulated that an underlying genetic predisposition to these conditions places other littermates and close relatives at increased risk. Vaccination of pet and research dogs with polyvalent vaccines containing rabies virus or rabies vaccine alone was recently shown to induce production of antithyroglobulin autoantibodies, a provocative and important finding with implications for the subsequent development of hypothyroidism (Scott-Moncrieff et al, 2002).

Vaccination also can overwhelm the immunocompromised or even healthy host that is repeatedly challenged with other environmental stimuli and is genetically predisposed to react adversely upon viral exposure. The recently weaned young puppy or kitten entering a new environment is at greater risk here, as its relatively immature immune system can be temporarily or more permanently harmed. Consequences in later life may be the increased susceptibility to chronic debilitating diseases.

As combination vaccines contain antigens other than those of the clinically important infectious disease agents, some may be unnecessary; and their use may increase the risk of adverse reactions. With the exception of a recently introduced mutivalent Leptospira spp. vaccine, the other leptospirosis vaccines afford little protection against the clinically important fields strains of leptospirosis, and the antibodies they elicit typically last only a few months. Other vaccines, such as for Lyme disease, may not be needed, because the disease is limited to certain geographical areas. Annual revaccination for rabies is required by some states even though there are USDA licensed rabies vaccine with a 3-year duration. Thus, the overall risk-benefit ratio of using certain vaccines or multiple antigen vaccines given simultaneously and repeatedly should be reexamined. It must be recognized, however, that we have the luxury of asking such questions today only because the risk of disease has been effectively reduced by the widespread use of vaccination programs.

Given this troublesome situation, what are the experts saying about these issues? In 1995, a landmark review commentary focused the attention of the veterinary profession on the advisability of current vaccine practices. Are we overvaccinating companion animals, and if so, what is the appropriate periodicity of booster vaccines ? Discussion of this provocative topic has generally lead to other questions about the duration of immunity conferred by the currently licensed vaccine components.

In response to questions posed in the first part of this article, veterinary vaccinologists have recommended new protocols for dogs and cats. These include: 1) giving the puppy or kitten vaccine series followed by a booster at one year of age; 2) administering further boosters in a combination vaccine every three years or as split components alternating every other year until; 3) the pet reaches geriatric age, at which time booster vaccination is likely to be unnecessary and may be unadvisable for those with aging or immunologic disorders. In the intervening years between booster vaccinations, and in the case of geriatric pets, circulating humoral immunity can be evaluated by measuring serum vaccine antibody titers as an indication of the presence of immune memory. Titers do not distinguish between immunity generated by vaccination and/or exposure to the disease, although the magnitude of immunity produced just by vaccination is usually lower (see Tables).

Except where vaccination is required by law, all animals, but especially those dogs or close relatives that previously experienced an adverse reaction to vaccination can have serum antibody titers measured annually instead of revaccination. If adequate titers are found, the animal should not need revaccination until some future date. Rechecking antibody titers can be performed annually, thereafter, or can be offered as an alternative to pet owners who prefer not to follow the conventional practice of annual boosters. Reliable serologic vaccine titering is available from several university and commercial laboratories and the cost is reasonable (Twark and Dodds, 2000; Lappin et al, 2002; Paul et al, 2003; Moore and Glickman, 2004).
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* Veterinary Medicine, February, 2002.
References
Dodds WJ. More bumps on the vaccine road. Adv Vet Med 41:715-732, 1999.
Dodds WJ. Vaccination protocols for dogs predisposed to vaccine reactions. J Am An Hosp Assoc 38: 1-4, 2001.
Hogenesch H, Azcona-Olivera J, Scott-Moncreiff C, et al. Vaccine-induced autoimmunity in the dog. Adv Vet Med 41: 733-744, 1999.
Hustead DR, Carpenter T, Sawyer DC, et al. Vaccination issues of concern to practitioners. J Am Vet Med Assoc 214: 1000-1002, 1999.
Kyle AHM, Squires RA, Davies PR. Serologic status and response to vaccination against canine distemper (CDV) and canine parvovirus (CPV) of dogs vaccinated at different intervals. J Sm An Pract, June 2002.
Lappin MR, Andrews J, Simpson D, et al. Use of serologic tests to predict resistance to feline herpesvirus 1, feline calicivirus, and feline parvovirus infection in cats. J Am Vet Med Assoc 220: 38-42, 2002.
McGaw DL, Thompson M, Tate, D, et al. Serum distemper virus and parvovirus antibody titers among dogs brought to a veterinary hospital for revaccination. J Am Vet Med Assoc 213: 72-75, 1998.
Moore GE, Glickman LT. A perspective on vaccine guidelines and titer tests for dogs. J Am Vet Med Assoc 224: 200-203. 2004.
Mouzin DE, Lorenzen M J, Haworth, et al. Duration of serologic response to five viral antigens in dogs. J Am Vet Med Assoc 224: 55-60, 2004.
Mouzin DE, Lorenzen M J, Haworth, et al. Duration of serologic response to three viral antigens in cats. J Am Vet Med Assoc 224: 61-66, 2004.
Paul MA. Credibility in the face of controversy. Am An Hosp Assoc Trends Magazine XIV(2):19-21, 1998.
Paul MA (chair) et al. Report of the AAHA Canine Vaccine Task Force: 2003 canine vaccine guidelines, recommendations, and supporting literature. AAHA, April 2003, 28 pp.
Schultz RD. Current and future canine and feline vaccination programs. Vet Med 93:233-254, 1998.
Schultz RD, Ford RB, Olsen J, Scott F. Titer testing and vaccination: a new look at traditional practices. Vet Med, 97: 1-13, 2002 (insert).
Scott FW, Geissinger CM. Long-term immunity in cats vaccinated with an inactivated trivalent vaccine. Am J Vet Res 60: 652-658, 1999.
Scott-Moncrieff JC, Azcona-Olivera J, Glickman NW, et al. Evaluation of antithyroglobulin antibodies after routine vaccination in pet and research dogs. J Am Vet Med Assoc 221: 515-521, 2002.
Smith CA. Are we vaccinating too much? J Am Vet Med Assoc 207:421-425, 1995.
Tizard I, Ni Y. Use of serologic testing to assess immune status of companion animals. J Am Vet Med Assoc 213: 54-60, 1998.
Twark L, Dodds WJ. Clinical application of serum parvovirus and distemper virus antibody titers for determining revaccination strategies in healthy dogs. J Am Vet Med Assoc 217:1021-1024, 2000.
Posted on September 18, 2006 1:16 AM | Permalink
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Vaccine adjuvants: Current state and future trends NIKOLAI PETROVSKY1 and JULIO CÉSAR AGUILAR2 1 Autoimmunity Research Unit, ANU Medical School, Australian National University, Canberra, ACT 2061, Australia and Vaccines Division, Center for Genetic Engineering and Biotechnology, Ave. 31 e/158 y 190, Cubanacán, Apdo 6162, Ciudad, Habana, Cuba 2

Summary
The problem with pure recombinant or synthetic antigens used in modern day vaccines is that they are generally far less immunogenic than older style live or killed whole organism vaccines. This has created a major need for improved and more powerful adjuvants for use in these vaccines. With few exceptions, alum remains the sole adjuvant approved for human use in the majority of countries worldwide. Although alum is able to induce a good antibody (Th2) response, it has little capacity to stimulate cellular (Th1) immune responses which are so important for protection against many pathogens. In addition, alum has the potential to cause severe local and systemic side-effects including sterile abscesses, eosinophilia and myofascitis, although fortunately most of the more serious side-effects are relatively rare. There is also community concern regarding the possible role of aluminium in neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer’s disease. Consequently, there is a major unmet need for safer and more effective adjuvants suitable for human use. In particular, there is demand for safe and non-toxic adjuvants able to stimulate cellular (Th1) immunity. Other needs in light of new vaccine technologies are adjuvants suitable for use with mucosally-delivered vaccines, DNA vaccines, cancer and autoimmunity vaccines. Each of these areas are highly specialized with their own unique needs in respect of suitable adjuvant technology. This paper reviews the state of the art in the adjuvant field, explores future directions of adjuvant development and finally examines some of the impediments and barriers to development and registration of new human adjuvants.
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Vaccination Reactions: How to Handle an Anaphylactic Reaction due to a Vaccine
Posted on: March 7, 2011
Vaccine reactions! They are such a scary event. In fact, vaccination induced reactions creates anxiety not only for the pet owner, but the patient and veterinarian too.

This page displays one example of a dog with a vaccine reaction to a rabies vaccine, manufactured by a reputable and professional veterinary pharmaceutical company and administered subcutaneously as recommended. Twelve months prior to the rabies vaccine given in this example, the dog (a three-year-old Dachshund) was vaccinated with a multivalent vaccine containing Distemper, Hepatitis, Parainfluenza, Corona and Parvo virus antigens. A mild reaction occurred to that vaccine administration. It is unknown to which fraction of that vaccine the dog reacted.

Prior to this incident, the owners were fully informed about potential vaccine reactions and what to do if another one occurred. They requested a rabies vaccine only (they decided against giving further multivalent vaccinations) in order to conform to local ordinances and to ensure against possible infection from rabies due to the abundant wildlife present in the dog’s environment. The vaccine was administered after a discussion of potential good and undesirable effects of a vaccine.

Two hours after the Rabies vaccine was administered the dog was readmitted for itching and head-shaking, and the presence of “hives” on the dog’s face and head. These eruptions on the skin, called a urticarial reaction, are rounded swollen raised areas of skin tissue that have responded locally to the administration of a substance to which the dog is allergic.

Hives are caused when the body releases histamine from a cell called a mast cell. The histamine then causes leaking of fluid into the surrounding body tissues from the small blood vessels and stimulates the nearby nerve endings producing the itching sensation. The dog was breathing normally but was uncomfortable. Fortunately the vast majority of vaccine reactions in the dog are similar to this case where the targeted tissue is the skin.

Though rare, the tracheal, laryngeal and bronchial tissues can swell, causing a constricted, spastic airway and breathing difficulties — all of which can have life-threatening consequences.
http://m.petmd.com/dog/care/evr_dg_vaccination_reactions
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Rabies Challenge Fund

Why Challenge Current Rabies Vaccine Policy?

Rabies vaccination is required by law in nearly all areas. Even though protection from rabies is documented to last at least three years, current law in some states or areas still requires that boosters be given annually or biannually rather than the standard policy of every three years. However, vaccination against rabies virus is occasionally associated with debilitating adverse effects. According to the CDC domestic animals account for less than 10% of the reported rabies cases, with cats, cattle, and dogs most often reported rabid. Scientific data indicate that vaccinating dogs against rabies every three years, as most states require, is unnecessary.
Studies have shown the duration of protective immunity as measured by serum antibody titers against rabies virus to persist for seven years post-vaccination. By validating the ‘true’ life of rabies virus immunity and moving to five and hopefully seven years, we will decrease the risk of adverse reactions in our animals and minimize their repeated exposure to foreign substances. Killed vaccines like those for rabies virus can trigger both immediate and delayed adverse vaccine reactions (termed “vaccinosis”). While there may be immediate hypersensitivity reactions, other acute events tend to occur 24-72 hours afterwards, or up to 45 days later in the case of delayed reactions.
Reactions that have been documented include:
Behavior changes such as aggression and separation anxiety
Obsessive behavior,self-mutilation, tail chewing
Pica – eating wood, stones, earth, stool
Destructive behavior, shredding bedding
Seizures, epilepsy
Fibrosarcomas at injection site
Autoimmune diseases such as those affecting bone marrow and blood cells, joints, eyes, skin, kidney, liver, bowel and central nervous system
Muscular weakness and or atrophy
Chronic digestive problems

Rabies Exemptions and Waivers
Rabies Vaccination is required by law. In some instances, it is possible to secure a written waiver for exemption from rabies booster vaccination. A letter justifying the medical reason for such exemption needs to be obtained from your primary care veterinarian. When seeking a waiver, a rabies serum antibody titer should be performed. Adequate serum rabies titers are at least 1:5 by the RFFIT method. Waiver requests are not generally accepted based on serum antibody titers alone, but may be granted on a case-by-case basis with justification. Waivers are not granted as a matter of personal preference, and localities often do not permit waivers and exemptions regardless of the justification.”

I have more if you need it… (I tend to overwhelm people with data. GFETE (Grinning From Ear To Ear)

[Jackie B]

It is difficult to transfer cats to wet food, but really it is better for them in the end. Male cats are prone to bladder stones and can get urinary tract obstructions, especially if they only eat dry food. My friend’s cat had to have surgery on his urethra– he was an all dry food cat. A circulating pet water fountain can encourage cats and dogs to drink more. Although it doesn’t help with supplements.

[Shawna]

Weimlove ~~ for clarification, The Honest Kitchen foods are dehydrated versus freeze dried. I personally like freeze drying better but I like the lack of potato in The Honest Kitchen and that they are guaranteed to use human grade foods. That being said, I think it is as important to rotate the starch etc as it is the proteins. I rotate through the premixes from See Spot Live Longer, Honest Kitchen, Grandma Lucy’s and Sojo. I will use others as they become locally available.

When using a premix, unless it specifies, you don’t need to add liver and shouldn’t add bone. Everything is in the premix to balance the meat you add. If you want to add liver I’d just do so in the form of treats. I dehydrate organic liver for my pups and they LOVE it. In a home made diet you only add 5% of the diet as liver (and 5% as other organs — heart, kidneys etc) so liver treats should be ample to an already balanced diet.

I also use complete and balanced commercial raw products in my rotation. I like Darwins and Bravo Balance. Bravo also has some meat only options that are great to add to the premixes (salmon, buffalo and venison are the options available).

[Mom2Cavs]

I 4 dogs and only 1 has anal gland issues, Laverne in my profile pic. She also seems to have mild allergies and can also have tear stains. I actually had to take her once to my holistic vet to have her glands expressed and they were almost impacted! My vet recommended giving her extra fiber, like metamucil. I started giving her metamucil (which is psyllium) then switched to metamucil clear and natural (which is inulin, a prebiotic). The clear and natural mixed better with her wet food. After awhile, I changed and now I give her Fresh Digest (which is a prebiotic and enzymes). This is doing the trick atm. She currently eats either Fromm grain free dry or Merrick Classic grain inclusive and a variety of grain free canned food (Weruva, Fromm, Simply Nourish, Wellness Stews).

[Anonymous]

Poor cat is on fluconazole liquid one time a day, he hates me already, I cannot even look at him and he runs, I hate this. He was very sensitive to people anyway, I have two orange big boys who love you no matter what, almost act like dogs, but little Iggy, is that blue grey color and is so shy, he was the hit by cat baby we grabbed up off the road. We will muddle through, because the lesion is right against his eye, I almost have to use this form of treatment, I did have the Veterycin eye wash which the company says kills ringworm, but it didn’t seem to be doing it. I will also try to feed him supplements but he is one of those finicky guys who only loves the dry food! I always offered him canned but he prefers his dry! I love my kitties but dogs are easier!

[pugmomsandy]

I even rotate foods for the fosters. They get a different bag every time. They get exposed to all different proteins and fruit/veg and different levels of micronutrients/vits/minerals. My one foster is only getting canned food and raw food but still gets different flavors of canned and different raw foods as it comes in a 2 lb bag and I have 4 different ones to chose from. My personal dogs get canned, kibble, freeze dried, and raw and occasioanlly dehydrated. I just don’t get feeding one food forever.