[Christie]

Dr. Google didn’t give me answers, nor do I believe everything that I read in forums. When the vets fails to prescribe the correct dosage for medication and doesn’t give you the food that is needed to help break up the crystals that were discovered in the urinalysis, then no I don’t believe in them.

The vet said that the dog needs to be on a diet that is grain free. That it needs to be meat concentrated (because it helps lower pH levels to prevent crystals from forming).

The diet formula was something I was looking for because we’ve been trying to keep her calorie intake down and raise her exercise levels to help her lose the weight she needs. But preventing the crystals is more important, so a high quality grain free canned food would work.

[Christie]

Ok sorry for the delay in responding. My mother’s dog had her follow up appointment with the vet on Wednesday.

To answer some of the questions: yes, the vet put her on prescribed antibiotics. However, the vet she saw this time around was a different person than the one two weeks ago. This vet said that the dog should have been put on antibiotics for two weeks instead of one week than the other vet prescribed. He also said that the other vet should have given the prescription food at the same time as the antibiotics to help dissolve the struvite crystals, while the antibiotics worked against the infection. So that was strike two.

He prescribed another week’s worth of antibiotics and gave my mother a week’s worth of Hills canned S/D food.

The dog won’t touch it. My mother asked if she could mix it with some of her old food (Fromm’s Weight management dry) or with plain boiled chicken and the vet said no.

So the dog hasn’t eaten and she vomited up her meds yesterday (probably because of the empty stomach). So I did some research online and apparently Hills S/D is nasty and not well liked/tolerated by dogs. The ingredients are horrible: Water, Corn Starch, Chicken Fat, Pork Liver, Sugar, Egg Product, Powdered Cellulose, Iodized Salt… and the texture is nasty (white chunks that my mother had to add water to just to break it up some (what kind of canned food has a consistency like that?) So my research led to a few forums where people were able to get their dogs to eat Royal Canin SO formula (which is basically the same. The ingredients are slightly better: water, chicken liver, corn grits, pork by-product, chicken, chicknen by-product…).

My mother called up the vet today and asked about changing the food to Royal Canin. He said that their food is terrible. He said that he would allow her to return the unopened Hills cans and wants to try Hills C/D formula. But I’ve read plenty of reviews from people who have the same issue with their dogs not wanting to touch that one either.

I read over the urinalysis taken two weeks ago ans the dog’s pH was high at 7.5 and the protein level was high. WBC and RBC were both high, but that was due to the infection and blood in the urine. It showed 11-20 struvite crystals.

The vet thinks that since it’s the first time that this has happened (she’s two years old) that the crystals could have been attributed to diet rather than genetics. She was on Fromm’s Weight Management dry formula because she’s about 5-10 pounds overweight. Prior to that, she was eating Purina One dry.

The vet seems fixated on using Hills (which is what they sell at their office), and if the dogs eats it, fine. It can help dissolve any remaining crystals. But it doesn’t look like its a complete, well balanced food and not meant to be used for long periods of time.

My vet used to sell Hills for the longest time before changing to Royal Canin.

I don’t think either is very good quality.

Are there any diet (low protein), grain free canned foods that are tolerable? Or supplements to help lower her urine pH?

[Christie]

The bottom of the thread says that it’s closed to new replies.

[Christie]

Susan, she was transitioned from Purina One to Fromm’s Weight Management about 2 weeks ago. When she had this issue last time, there hadn’t been any changes to her diet.

I wonder though about the neurological possibilities. Back in January or February, she had an episode where she couldn’t control her bladder for 2 days. And at one point, my mother said she kind of stared off and slumped like she was having a seizure for a few seconds. The vet did tests and chalked it up to a bladder/UTI and gave her antibiotics.

[Christie]

anon101: Nothing showed up on the bloodwork. We did the Pepcid twice a day for 10 days 30 minutes before meals. I was in the process of transitioning the dogs from Wellness Core Reduced Fat kibble to Fromm Weight Management. I also stopped giving the dogs apples and sardines with their meals.

So far, there have been no abnormal issues. He still drools like crazy in the presence of food, which is normal for him. But he hasn’t had any issues with drooling or settling down at night since.

I have a followup appointment with the vet tonight to check on the ulcer that was on his lip/chin (that may have also contributed to the drooling).

The vet still thinks that it’s something that he’s eating. I haven’t had any issues since I finished transitioning to Fromm. But neither dog likes the kibble.

[Christie]

Are their any known issues with feeding sardines (approximately 2) per day. I had been splitting a can between my two dogs to mix in with their evening meal. Both seemed to enjoy it (they are not fans of dry kibble alone and canned sardines are cheaper than quality wet food to use as a topper).

About a month after starting this routine, one of the dogs developed stomach issues. Excessive drooling and licking and he wouldn’t settle down easy at night. I stopped feeding the sardines and did a 10 day Pepcid AC regimen twice a day and haven’t had any issues since.

It could be coincidence, but I wonder if the sardines were the culprit.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by Christie.

[Christie]

My mom called me this morning telling me that her 2 year old dog has been gulping and licking at the carpets/floors. This happened last year and it turned out that she had ingested fibers from a carpet runner that were long and that she couldn’t vomit them up or pass them. She had to get surgery to remove the items. Since then, she’s watched like a hawk. Which is why my mom can’t see why it’s suddenly happening again.

I wonder if she was having stomach issues and she ate the carpet BECAUSE of it. Or if she happened to ingest something again and it’s her way of trying to get rid of it.

[Christie]

Anon101- I was mistaken. Blood was taken when they brought him to the back room to cut his nails. I’m so used to going to the vet that I don’t even look at the receipt when I sign my money away. But there’s a $135 charge for a workup. I thought that it was the same as anesthesia pretesting that was on the dental procedure estimate. My vet was annoyed that the walk-in didn’t do much of anything (they didn’t even spot the ulcer on the bottom of Chance’s jaw).

Susan, thanks for the suggestions. I’ll look into the TOTW. Thinking back now, I made another change when I switched to Wellness Core Reduced Fat. Neither of my two dogs likes to eat kibble. Last year I added 1/4 can of canned food mixed with the kibble. That had mixed results. They’d like it for 3 meals then refuse to eat it after. I’d switch up the proteins and the types (stews vs. pate) but I seemed to be wasting more than what was being consumed. Not to mention the added calories that caused the weight gain. So I cut out the cans completely. I sprinkled a tiny bit of cheese on the food and they’d eat it for the most part (my little one usually ate around the kibble to get to the cheese but once she got hungry enough, she’d eat the kibble). But I know cheese isn’t the healthiest option, so I tried low sodium chicken broth. Dogs liked it for a few days and then I had to deal with throwing out soggy kibble that they wouldn’t touch. I tried adding canned pumpkin. Worked for 2 meals and then that was it.

So I scoured different sites and forums to see what people added to kibble. Apples and sardines were two things that I hadn’t previously thought about. Apples didn’t add much in the way of calories and the sardines had all the oils and fatty acids that are beneficial. I didn’t hear anything bad about sardines, only that you should avoid ones that aren’t canned with water and that you shouldn’t feed them in both meals.

I would cut up an apple and split it between both dogs with their morning meal. And I would split a small can of sardines for the evening meal. They definitely like the evening meal more, but they’ll reluctantly eat the kibble with the apple pieces mixed in the morning.

That said, could either the apples or sardines cause the possible upset stomach/acid reflux? Because I started giving them around the same time as the kibble switch.

[Christie]

Ok. The drooling is back. Noticed last night that he was drooling excessively after dinner and he didn’t want to settle in for the night. So I took him back to the vet today. He has some tartar on his canines (not terrible though) and his gums were a little red but not swollen. He has some ulcer on the outside of his lower jaw. The vet doesn’t think that the mouth is the main issue. Since I started to notice the issues after switching him to Wellness Core Reduced Fat dry kibble, he wants to eliminate the possibility that it’s food related. The vet told me to give him 20mg of Pepcid 2x day for 10 days to see if there is an improvement.

In reply to Susan, I don’t think it’s the Zignature, because he started to have the issues while eating the Wellness and I switched him to the Zignature immediately on the suggestion of someone else in the forum. But yes, Zignature has 435 Calories/Cup, where the Wellness Core only has 360. I’m transitioning him off the Zignature to Fromm Gold Weight Management which only is 341 kcal/cup.

If the pepcid doesn’t help, he’s going to do a full blood work up to check his liver and put him out to clean his teeth and do a more thorough check of his mouth, teeth and gums. And if he still has issues, then we’re going to look more closely into his food.

So what I thought was a done deal is back to being a mystery.

[Christie]

I emailed Fromm asking about the size of their weight management formula kibble. Both dogs need to lose some weight. I did not hear back from them before needing to order to properly transition with their remaining food, so I ordered a bag. *fingers crossed*

I also ordered a bag of the same formula for my friend whose overweight dog eats Purina One. Hopefully some positive results will lead to a permanent food change for the better.

[Christie]

Thanks for the suggestion! I’ll check out their site

[Christie]

My cousin’s girlfriend is a vet tech at an emergency vet in another state and they recommend benedryl for temporary relief of seasonal allergies and/or if the dog touch/ate something that could cause an immediate reaction (like the time my dog tried to eat a toad). For the inflamed paws, they recommend Nu-stock.

Zymox ear cleaner is the medicine that my vet recommendeds to keep his ears healthy. And if they seem irritated, then I apply the Zymox solution.

[Christie]

I’ve pretty much concluded that all of the itching/licking/ear issues aren’t food based. I’ve done elimination tests. During the last bout of issues, I switched immediately to Zignature based on a suggestion in this forum. Neither dog ‘loves; the kibble and I have to add apples and sardines just to get them to eat it. The itching seems better, but I’ve also been treating my dog’s paws with OTC meds that appear to be working, so I don’t know if the food helped or not. I’ve tried a dozen different food brands, mixing up the main proteins, and there doesn’t appear to be a big difference between them. The itching/ear issues just seem to pop up at random.

My dog is American Bulldog/pit mix and I’ve read that they’re just predisposed to itching and ear issues. As long as I catch flareups early in the game, I can usually treat the symptoms.

I read that you can give a dog benedryl for environmental allergies, but I’m always wary of giving them anything made for humans. Is it really safe? My vet always just wants to prescribe general antibiotics to clear the ears but the OTC drops work just as well for a fraction of the cost.

[Christie]

Vet checked his mouth and didn’t find anything that would suggest teeth, gums, or mouth issues. Rinsed the dogs mouth out with some sort of solution. Was pretty confident that they dog put something in his mouth that he wasn’t supposed to. The licking of the paws/ear debris was a separate issue and he gave me antibiotics.

It’s been 2 days and he hasn’t drooled excessively since.

[Christie]

My two dogs are not fans of their kibble and I’ve eliminated adding canned food to mix in because I’m trying to reduce their caloric intake (in to help them lose weight). I split a can of sardines (so about 2 sardines each) for their evening meal and split an apple to mix in with their morning meal. Neither dog has had any issues with the tiny bones.

[Christie]

I ordered a bag of the lamb formula from Chewy (the one local store that I found who carries the brand only has the multi protein formula that has turkey in it).

I looked at Zignature’s website and the food does look good. My only concern is intestinal issues if I switch them cold turkey. Zignature states that dogs can usually switch immediately with no issue, but I don’t know what’s worse: possible stomach pain/diarrhea with both dogs or the skin/ear itching with my big guy (I have been using OTC cortisone eardrops and the ear looks 90% better).

I literally have enough Wellness dry food for 2 more feedings…do I buy another small bag of it to transition with or take my chances when the Zignature arrives tomorrow?

And does anyone have suggestions for toppers? My dogs are super picky eaters. Neither dog likes kibble very much. One of the reasons (according to the vet) that both gained weight last year was due to me mixing in canned (quality) dog food. Or do I just feed the dry solo and hope they like it and if not leave it until they get hungry enough to eat it?

• This reply was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by Christie.

[Christie]

Still waiting to hear from Amazon. They’re claiming that it’s a grocery item and they aren’t returnable. I did, however, go to Petco in the mean time and picked up a few cans. And they did seem similar in consistency to the cans from Amazon. Perhaps WEF changed their formula?

Both dogs have recovered. WEF is okay, but the only reason that I’m feeding it currently is because it is All Life Stages and the cheaper option to feed both my adult dog and my puppy until she’s older.

[Christie]

She vomited 6 times within the course of about 45 minutes or so– then was set for the rest of the night. She drank some water this morning (not too much) and nibbled on a bit of her regular dry food. And she was playful and rolling around with my other dog outside this morning.

I only put about 20% of the new food in her dish last night. But it must have upset her stomach because I noticed some grass in the vomit. And she was whiny and attention seeking earlier in the night before she became sick.

I know that transitioning can sometimes be a difficult process, and some dogs go through it with no issue and some dogs don’t tolerate any change well.

I’m not going to give up on transitioning, but I might put it on hold until after the weekend as I am going to be puppy sitting and I really don’t want to worry about possible vomit on top of worrying about my 110 pound giant eating this 10 pound pup.

I hope she’s not allergic or intolerant of any of the WEF ingredients. I did notice that she was rubbing her face and pawing at her ears last night. And I did check this morning and her ears, while a bit dirty inside (my dogs love play fighting on the one area of my backyard that’s all topsoil), they weren’t red or inflamed or anything suggesting sickness. And she was trying (unsuccessfully) to bite at her tail. All symptoms that I read this morning of possible food allergies. I thought the Turkey and Duck recipe was the safest bet.

I have been transitioning both dogs from free eating dry kibble with a canned treat each night to two meals/day. And I did only start to mix the canned with the dry kibble and both dogs finished their meals rather quickly. Definitely a change over how they normally eat. So maybe it’s a combo of the food itself and how quickly they eat it.

Hopefully it was just a one off and she’ll transition to WEF without any other issues.

Thanks again for all the help!

[Christie]

She vomited 6 times within the course of about 45 minutes or so– then was set for the rest of the night. She drank some water this morning (not too much) and nibbled on a bit of her regular dry food. And she was playful and rolling around with my other dog outside this morning.

I only put about 20% of the new food in her dish last night. But it must have upset her stomach because I noticed some grass in the vomit. And she was whiny and attention seeking earlier in the night before she became sick.

I know that transitioning can sometimes be a difficult process, and some dogs go through it with no issue and some dogs don’t tolerate any change well.

I’m not going to give up on transitioning, but I might put it on hold until after the weekend as I am going to be puppy sitting and I really don’t want to worry about possible vomit on top of worrying about my 110 pound giant eating this 10 pound pup.

I hope she’s not allergic or intolerant of any of the WEF ingredients. I did notice that she was rubbing her face and pawing at her ears last night. And I did check this morning and her ears, while a bit dirty inside (my dogs love play fighting on the one area of my backyard that’s all topsoil), they weren’t red or inflamed or anything suggesting sickness. And she was trying (unsuccessfully) to bite at her tail. All symptoms that I read this morning of possible food allergies. I thought the Turkey and Duck recipe was the safest bet.

I have been transitioning both dogs from free eating dry kibble with a canned treat each night to two meals/day. And I did only start to mix the canned with the dry kibble and both dogs finished their meals rather quickly. Definitely a chance over how they normally eat. So maybe it’s a combo of the food itself and how quickly they eat it.

Hopefully it was just a one off and she’ll transition to WEF without any other issues.

Thanks again for all the help!

[Christie]

Thank you crazy4cats and pitlove for the advice!! I went out after work and bought a small bag of the WEF Turkey and Duck kibble. I put just a small portion of it mixed with their normal dinner.

My big guy has had no issue (he can literally eat anything), but my little pup vomited 6 times tonight and she’s a miserable mess on my lap right now as I type this.

Can a dog really have that bad of a reaction to new kibble?

She also gobbled up her food this morning and this evening after mixing it with some wet food.

When I first adopted her and transitioned from Ideal Balance to Organix, I didn’t have any problems. I don’t know if it’s the food as a whole or a particular ingredient in the WEF that she’s having an issue with. Or if it’s because she ate too fast (but I would think she would’ve vomited soon after eating instead of 5 hours later).

Do I try again tomorrow? Or do I cook something bland like boiled chicken and rice and wait until her stomach settles?

[Christie]

sorry…4 or 5 Star (not 4-5 different brands)

[Author]

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