[Christie]

A few weeks ago I came onto the forum and posted about my 8 year old American Bulldog/Pit mix Chance’s issues with Wellness Core (Diet Formula). He seems to have issues with chicken protein food and I didn’t realize that the Wellness used it until the symptoms started. On the advice from a response I received here, I switched him immediately to Zignature lamb formula. I also had used Zymox on his ear for two days and that seemed to help with his ear itching (he had common infection like debris in his one ear, was shaking his head and licking his paws to the point where they were inflamed).

However, the big guy has been drooling like crazy the past 3 or so days. I checked his ear and while the visible portion seems relatively clear, I used a flashlight to look deeper inside and there seems to be more infectious debris. I totally take the blame because one the symptoms seemed better after the food switch, I assumed the ear issues were due to that and didn’t continue the Zymox. I put the drops in this morning and will continue to do so for the full 5-7 days. He’s still licking his back paws, though. They’ve become red and inflamed. Last night I rubbed Nu-Stock on his paws (which is sulfur based and helps to discourage dogs from licking) but Chance is undeterred and I caught him licking at the top of his front leg this morning.

The ear issues and licking issues are things I’ve dealt with for the 7 years that I’ve had him. He’s prone to ear infections/allergies. And he’s normally a drooling, slobbery mess. But the only time that I’ve seen him drool this much is when a person is eating food in front of him. It’s his ‘feed me this’ drooling. But he’s doing it without the food now. And it seems to go hand in hand with the persistent licking.

I’ve checked his mouth and I don’t see any obvious issues with his teeth or gums (other than being a wet mess). He’s still eating and doesn’t appear to be in any pain opening his mouth or chewing. He’s still playing with his little sister, play fighting in and out of the house. He seems just a bit calmer/quieter like he gets when he has his ear infections/allergy issues (unless food/treats are in play and then he’s super perky).

I called the vet and the tech thinks that maybe he put something in his mouth/ate something that’s causing the drooling. I have an appointment for first thing Friday. I know that’s 3 days away and I’m always one for getting my dogs in asap when they’re sick/injured. But I am literally the only person working at my job until Friday and I’m going to have to get someone to cover for me to allow me to come in late. The vet tech said that they’d squeeze me in if things changed and he appeared to be in pain/have a fever/stopped eating etc.

Has anyone ever had issues with normally ‘drooly’ dogs excessively drooling? He’s been drinking water like normal and I literally watched him this morning to see if he was urinating, and he is. Could it have anything to do with the Zignature food? I’m wondering if it could have anything to do with laundry detergent (I cover the couches with sheets and he’ll inadvertently lick the fabric when he licks his paws. Or if it can all stem from an inner ear infection? But when he’s “sick” he usually acts the part ( he especially doesn’t like to eat which is a big indicator that something isn’t right) and he just isn’t acting sick.

I was going to wash all the sheets and bedding in dye/fragrance free detergent, re-vacuum all the carpets and give both dogs a bath tonight and see if there are any changes. And if there’s still enough light out when I get home tonight, walk around the yard and see if there’s anything out there that the dogs might be getting into.

But what are the odds that the new symptom of drooling has anything to do with any of that?

[anonymous]

The symptoms you describe such as excessive drooling would have me concerned enough to go to the 24/7 nearest emergency veterinary clinic, rather than wait 3 days for an appointment. He may need medication asap to stop the suffering, he sounds miserable.

Some of the other symptoms sound like environmental allergies (not related to food)
Have you checked the search engine here?
Btw: I would not apply anything to the dogs skin unless a veterinarian that has examined the dog advises you to do so.

Example: What you describe sounds like environmental allergies, food would have little impact, if any, on this condition.
I would continue to work with your veterinarian, however, for best results, I would go to a specialist, a veterinary dermatologist.
Have you tried the search engine here? This subject comes up frequently.
Example: /forums/topic/irritated-skin-food-allergy/
/forums/topic/dog-chewing-nails-till-they-bleed/
“Food allergies are rare. Food sensitivities tend to result in GI disturbances such as vomiting and diarrhea. Environmental allergies tend to show up as pruritus, ear infections and such”.

[anonymous]

Another tip, next time you call the vet, I would leave a message for the vet to call you back when he has a minute. Despite the helpful advice given by the vet tech, I would prefer to talk directly with the vet.
I would ask him to fit you in that day or let him know that you may go to the emergency clinic if he can’t accommodate your request…
As the vet will confirm, without further diagnostic testing and examination there is no way to tell what is going on with the dog.

[Susan]

Hi, I wonder if he’s getting Acid Reflux or feeling sick/nauseous from the new food Zignature Lamb formula?? it might be too high in calories/per cup to dense or too high in fat, fiber or protein??
My staffy can’t eat any kibbles over 370 Kcals/per cup, I feed “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain, Roasted Lamb kibble now, it has limited ingredients, my boy has IBD & Skin Allergies & food sensitivities & he too can’t eat chicken, since my boy has started eating the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb kibble his acid reflux has stopped, red paws went away & poo’s are nice & firm.. Kcals/per cup are only 338…also weekly bathing in Malaseb has helped Patches skin & paws…apply “Sudocrem” to his paw at night with a elastic bandage & then a baby sock so he can’t lick off the cream..
I hope you get some answers but try changing his kibble to a different brand that’s lower in fat, protein & fiber with lower Kcals/per cup & see if the drooling stops….

[Christie]

Vet checked his mouth and didn’t find anything that would suggest teeth, gums, or mouth issues. Rinsed the dogs mouth out with some sort of solution. Was pretty confident that they dog put something in his mouth that he wasn’t supposed to. The licking of the paws/ear debris was a separate issue and he gave me antibiotics.

It’s been 2 days and he hasn’t drooled excessively since.

[Christie]

Ok. The drooling is back. Noticed last night that he was drooling excessively after dinner and he didn’t want to settle in for the night. So I took him back to the vet today. He has some tartar on his canines (not terrible though) and his gums were a little red but not swollen. He has some ulcer on the outside of his lower jaw. The vet doesn’t think that the mouth is the main issue. Since I started to notice the issues after switching him to Wellness Core Reduced Fat dry kibble, he wants to eliminate the possibility that it’s food related. The vet told me to give him 20mg of Pepcid 2x day for 10 days to see if there is an improvement.

In reply to Susan, I don’t think it’s the Zignature, because he started to have the issues while eating the Wellness and I switched him to the Zignature immediately on the suggestion of someone else in the forum. But yes, Zignature has 435 Calories/Cup, where the Wellness Core only has 360. I’m transitioning him off the Zignature to Fromm Gold Weight Management which only is 341 kcal/cup.

If the pepcid doesn’t help, he’s going to do a full blood work up to check his liver and put him out to clean his teeth and do a more thorough check of his mouth, teeth and gums. And if he still has issues, then we’re going to look more closely into his food.

So what I thought was a done deal is back to being a mystery.

[anonymous]

I would get the lab work, and whatever other diagnostic tests are recommended, asap. I don’t understand why this wasn’t done right away.
Hypersalivation is not normal.

[Susan]

Hi, gee poor boy he must be in comfortable, sometimes the Pepcid doesn’t work cause their acid reflux is real bad & they need a stronger ant acid reducer, the Pepcid (Famotidine) worked the first week for Patch but then after 1 week it wasn’t working…..Zantac (Ranitidine) was developed mid 90’s a bit better then the Pepcid, Patch was on the Zantac for a while while I tried different kibbles, but I wasn’t trying grain free kibbles cause the fat was over 12 % he didn’t get better, he was still grinding his teeth at night, uncomfortable changing beds thru the night, waking me up wanting grass…
If the Pepcid works but doesn’t work good enough, I would ask vet can you try 20mg Losec (Omeprazole) just give for 4 days then stop, give once a day in the morning, then see how he does, then when you see he’s getting uncomfortable again give a losec tablet with water, I push the tablet down throat back of tongue & I have a 20ml big syringe & fill with water & slowly squirt the water in side of Patches mouth so the Losec tablet goes down his throat, I even rub throat downwards to make sure pill isn’t sitting in his throat & goes into his stomach….Omeprazole (Losec) is a Pump Proton Inhibitor (PPI) once you take a PPI for more then 20 days you can not just stop taking it, it needs to be reduced slowly, PPI are the best for bad acid reflux especially as they get older…Patch is on 20mg Losec permanently, I found he did so much better when taking the Losec when I’d stop the Losec his acid just came back with in 2-3 days..
Blood test wont show up any health problems to do with the stomach & small bowel, but yes the liver, gallbladder & pancreas will show up thru blood test, the only way is to have a couple of Biopsies done of the stomach & small bowel it’s the only way by doing an Endoscope & Biopsies, I wish I did it first in the beginning, the money I wasted doing blood test, Ultra Scans, trying vet diets that made things worst cause most vet diet are high in carbohydrates & high in soluble fiber grains that makes the acid reflux worse…..
A cooked lean diet is the best this way you can control ingredients, carbs, fiber & fat etc… Finally after 2 yrs of trying every single kibble, I found TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb, limited ingredients, I had never tried it cause the fat is 15% max, now I feed 5 smaller meals a day, 7am-breakfast 1/2 cup TOTW kibble then walk, then I give Patch his 20mg Losec around 8.30am then 9-9.30am another 1/2 cup TOTW, 12pm 1/3 cup TOTW, 5pm cooked lean pork rissoles + boiled Sweet potatoes or 1 heaped 1/2 cup TOTW Lamb Kibble & at 8pm 1/3 cup TOTW kibble, the fat in the TOTW is 15%max but the Kcals per cup are 338 very low & the Carbs are low at 38% Carbs the TOTW kibble & the 20mg Losec has stopped his acid reflux FINALLY…..
I just looked at the ingredients in the Fromm Weight Management formula, gee there’s too many ingredients, too many proteins & has fish oil, & fiber is 7% too high, you need to look for a grain free, limited ingredient, low fiber around 4-5%, & fat around 12-15% the lower the fat the higher the carbs, so you need to increase the fat a bit to reduce the carbohydrates, grains are soluble fibers, you need foods like sweet potatoes that are insoluble fibers, so the food isn’t sitting in the stomach fermenting, insoluble fiber passes thru the stomach quicker, where soluble fibers sit in the stomach longer, no good, Patch use to vomit the kibble back up all undigested when he was eating kibbles with grains….. The Wellness Core Reduce fat kibble is very high in fiber 8.5% that would have made his acid reflux worse…I wanted to try the wet tin Wellness Core but the fiber was too high. So I cook instead.
It’s taken me 3yrs to work it all out finally, if the Fromm kibble doesn’t really work, take it back for refund, just say he stopped eating it, the fish oil is probably giving him acid reflux, now he won’t eat it…… I can only feed kibbles with Canola Oil…..NO fish or Salmon oils they give you acid reflux, the fish oil repeats on you, you burp it back up… the Australian TOTW has no Salmon or fish oil but I think the TOTW made for America has Salmon Oil, I live Australia….
Patches acid reflux was good when eating the Holistic Select Salmon, Anchovy & Sardines grain free kibble, the fat is 13%, Kcals 341per/cup, carbs are only 28% so if you do have to take back the Fromm look for the Holistic Select Adult/Puppy Salmon Grain Free formula, if you email the kibble companies they email you the max fat, max fiber & carbohydrate % its very hard to find kibbles that are low in carbs, low Fiber, low Kcals per/cup & medium fat%..
I stay away from weight management kibbles the fiber is to high to keep the dog feeling fuller longer & they use soluble fibers that stay in stomach longer to feel fuller longer then the food starts fermenting in stomach, but weight management kibbles may work for your boy.. you wont know untill you try a few different kibble, how I knew was I’d feed a cooked meal with sweet potatoes, no rice no grains & Patch wouldn’t get his acid reflux then feed him a grain low fat kibble for dinner & he’d be grinding his teeth, the acid must come up throat into his mouth leaving an awful taste in mouth, In the beginning he had a real sore mouth & throat when the acid was real bad from the Helicobacter-Pylori infection, I wonder if your boy has the Helicobacter? now there’s a blood test for humans, I had to have the Endoscope + Biopsies 3 yrs ago for Patch but for myself I just had a blood test last year, I suffer with GORD’s real bad acid reflux, then I was put on a PPI, Somac it’s like Losec all my symptoms went away within 2-3 days + a diet change & eating smaller meals thru the day, if your on Face Book join this F/B group called “Canine Pancreatitis Support” look in the files & there’s a heap of low fat foods, a lot of dogs with Pancreatitis suffer with acid reflux as well..
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1435920120029740/
I just had a look, on f/b Pancreatitis group you might have been better buying 4Health Turkey & Potato formula instead of the fromm, it has less ingredients, no tomato pomace, no fish or salmon oils, no garbanzo beans, no chick peas or Lentils has only 8 ingredients, the less ingredients the better, less foods to cause acid reflux, the Kcals are 337 per cup, protein-24, fat-14%, Carbs-39% or there’s 4Health Mature 7+ the fat-10%, Protein-20% fiber 3% Kcals-320% per/cup but carbs are 49% & it has more ingredients then the 4Health Turkey & Potatoes..
Good luck, keep a diary, so you can look back what & when he ate ?? & what meds were given, keep us up to date what’s happening…

[Susan]

Hi gee poor boy, I just looked at the Fromm Gold Weight management, it has too many ingredients, to many proteins, grains & fish oil & the fiber is too high, like the Wellness Core Reduced Fat was 8.5% fiber, you need a kibble with limited ingredients, so there’s less ingredients to cause the acid reflux….
For 2 yrs I struggled with Patches Acid reflux & finally I’ve worked it out, in the beginning had Endoscope + Biopsies done & he had the Helicobacter-Pylori infection plus IBD, Patch started taking Zantac (Ranitidine) a more modern ant acid medication then the Pepcid is, with the Pepcid you might find the Pepcid wont really help much, Patch takes Prilosec (Omeprazole) now, so if after the 10days on Pepcid & the blood test doesn’t find anything wrong with liver gallbladder or pancreas, I’d ask can you try Prilosec 20mg x 1 a day in the morning & see if he’ll write a few repeat script you can get from chemist, it will be heaps cheaper, also you can’t just stop the Prilosec if taking more then 20 days it needs to be reduce slowly.. I was giving the Losec for 4 days then stopping & seen how Patch went but after 2 days Patch would have his acid reflux again, I was giving liquid 1 teaspoon liquid Mylanta nights Patch wouldn’t settle…. I kept feeding low fat kibbles but when kibbles are lower in fat they are higher in carbohydrates & normally have grains, rice, oats, barley, millet, bran etc these are all soluble fibers, soluble fibers sit in the stomach longer & ferment, same as weight management kibbles they put more soluble fibers in the kibble so the dog feels full longer & they normally are higher in fiber as well & can cause acid reflux, so best to stay away from weight management kibbles…….Insoluble fibers pass thru the stomach quicker, it doesn’t sit in the stomach & ferment like soluble fibers do, insoluble fibers bulk up the poos, also prevent digestive disorders like IBS IBD ….. I have found kibbles with sweet potato, potatoes & peas worked the best but a lot of these new grain free kibble are using chickpeas, lentils & garbanzo beans these are harder to digest & higher in fiber, my boy can’t eat kibbles with chickpeas, Lentils especially if they’re 2nd 3rd 4th 5th ingredients… fish oil & salmon oils can also cause acid reflux, best to look for kibbles with canola oil & fish meal instead of the fish oil/salmon oils…
I found the fat can be around 12-15% max, the higher the fat the lower the carbohydrates are, stick with kibbles under 40% carbs, it’s a lot to look for in a kibble but there are a few grain free kibbles out there that have more insoluble fibers, low in carbs & are 12-15% max fat…
Holistic Select Adult/Puppy Salmon, Anchovy & Sardines grain free has only 28%-Carbs, 13%-fat & kcals-341per/cup & just have fish & potatoes peas not too many ingredients..
if your on face Book join this group called “Canine Pancreatitis Support” https://www.facebook.com/groups/1435920120029740/
look in the file section & there’s a list of foods from 12% fat down to 6 % fat, I looked & the 4Health Turkey & Potato has about 8 ingredients, fat was-14% kcals-337 per/cup, 39%-carbs no grains,
there’s the 4Health Mature 7+ the fat-10% protein-20% fiber-3%, kcals-320per/cup but it has grains you could always give it a go & see how your boy does…. this is why I feed Taste Of The Wild Sierra Mountain, Roasted Lamb, it’s the only kibble that works, it only has 1 protein Lamb, sweet potatoes, potatoes, peas, egg, limited ingredients & canola oil, carbs-38% & Kcals-337 per/cup, but I think TOTW puts Salmon Oil in their TOTW formulas for their American customers, but if nothing is helping him you could give the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb a try & the Prilosec tablet in the morning… First I feed TOTW Pacific Stream Smoked Salmon & Patches acid reflux stopped straight away, but he was taken the Zantac but it wasn’t working great, the fiber is only 3%, fat-15%, protein-25% Kcals 360 per/cup 39% carbs… but he seems to prefer the Lamb kibbles maybe the fish kibble doesn’t agree with him as much as the Lamb does.. also feed smaller meals thru the day not just 2 large meals a day, I feed 5 small meals a day, 7am-1/2cup TOTW Lamb Kibble, 8.30am-Losec tablet, 9am-1/2cup TOTW kibble, 12pm-1/3cup kibble, 5pm 1/2 heaped cup kibble & 8pm 1/3 cup TOTW Kibble… the best is a cooked diet, I was feeding lean pork rissoles + sweet potatoes for dinner so his stomach isn’t bloated with kibbles thru the night…
Good-Luck, keep us updated what’s happening..

[Christie]

Anon101- I was mistaken. Blood was taken when they brought him to the back room to cut his nails. I’m so used to going to the vet that I don’t even look at the receipt when I sign my money away. But there’s a $135 charge for a workup. I thought that it was the same as anesthesia pretesting that was on the dental procedure estimate. My vet was annoyed that the walk-in didn’t do much of anything (they didn’t even spot the ulcer on the bottom of Chance’s jaw).

Susan, thanks for the suggestions. I’ll look into the TOTW. Thinking back now, I made another change when I switched to Wellness Core Reduced Fat. Neither of my two dogs likes to eat kibble. Last year I added 1/4 can of canned food mixed with the kibble. That had mixed results. They’d like it for 3 meals then refuse to eat it after. I’d switch up the proteins and the types (stews vs. pate) but I seemed to be wasting more than what was being consumed. Not to mention the added calories that caused the weight gain. So I cut out the cans completely. I sprinkled a tiny bit of cheese on the food and they’d eat it for the most part (my little one usually ate around the kibble to get to the cheese but once she got hungry enough, she’d eat the kibble). But I know cheese isn’t the healthiest option, so I tried low sodium chicken broth. Dogs liked it for a few days and then I had to deal with throwing out soggy kibble that they wouldn’t touch. I tried adding canned pumpkin. Worked for 2 meals and then that was it.

So I scoured different sites and forums to see what people added to kibble. Apples and sardines were two things that I hadn’t previously thought about. Apples didn’t add much in the way of calories and the sardines had all the oils and fatty acids that are beneficial. I didn’t hear anything bad about sardines, only that you should avoid ones that aren’t canned with water and that you shouldn’t feed them in both meals.

I would cut up an apple and split it between both dogs with their morning meal. And I would split a small can of sardines for the evening meal. They definitely like the evening meal more, but they’ll reluctantly eat the kibble with the apple pieces mixed in the morning.

That said, could either the apples or sardines cause the possible upset stomach/acid reflux? Because I started giving them around the same time as the kibble switch.

[anonymous]

What is her diagnosis? Did the vet tell you she had stomach/acid reflux? Did the vet go over the results of the lab work with you.
It’s possible that the hypersalivation is not related to her diet.

[Christie]

anon101: Nothing showed up on the bloodwork. We did the Pepcid twice a day for 10 days 30 minutes before meals. I was in the process of transitioning the dogs from Wellness Core Reduced Fat kibble to Fromm Weight Management. I also stopped giving the dogs apples and sardines with their meals.

So far, there have been no abnormal issues. He still drools like crazy in the presence of food, which is normal for him. But he hasn’t had any issues with drooling or settling down at night since.

I have a followup appointment with the vet tonight to check on the ulcer that was on his lip/chin (that may have also contributed to the drooling).

The vet still thinks that it’s something that he’s eating. I haven’t had any issues since I finished transitioning to Fromm. But neither dog likes the kibble.

[anonymous]

Maybe the sardines didn’t agree with him. They are high in sodium.
For a low calorie snack I give my dogs 1/2 of a raw carrot here and there.
If you try this, don’t be alarmed if you see orange carrot chunks in their feces, they don’t really digest them but it doesn’t hurt them, it’s all fiber.
PS: Also, make sure the dog chews the carrot, some dogs try to swallow them whole (choking hazard), in that case, maybe chopping them up would be better.

[anonymous]

On second thought, I assume you know this, but, the seeds in the center of the apple are toxic to dogs.
I have tried apple slices, but, My dogs don’t care for them.

[Author]

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