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aimee
ParticipantYup! Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought that would have happened. The owner was livid! How dare I put tanning oil on a No Hideā¦. I think there was just such a strong belief and trust in the company that when shown something incompatible with that belief something had to go and that something was me LOL
aimee
ParticipantWell that didnāt go so wellā¦I brought my beautifully tanned āNo Hideā back to the store and as soon as I showed it to the manager was ordered to leave the store. Yup thrown out.
Recently learned of someone who did the same as I did with similar results.
I do not understand the hold that this company has on retailers.
March 26, 2018 at 3:22 pm in reply to: NEED ADVICE ASAP-homemade dog food recipes for dogs with struvite stones #112554 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibilityaimee
ParticipantHi Penny,
Unless your dog had the rather uncommon condition of struvite stones not related to an infection, diet isnāt the way to prevent recurrence. To prevent recurrence you need to seek out and address any medical problems that can make her prone to infection and then monitor urine for infection and treat appropriately.
March 24, 2018 at 5:06 pm in reply to: Zignature for large breed puppy? #112485 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibilityaimee
ParticipantHi anon,
When I asked Zignature who formulated their foods and what their credentials were this was the answer they provided: āOur formulations are done between our owner and our nutritionist. Our nutritionist is a biologist who specializes in nutrition, and is one of the top pet nutritionists in the industry, and our owner has 20 years in the pet food industry and he spent 9 years researching pet food and nutrition before leaving to launch Zignature.āWasnāt exactly a confidence inspiring answer So I asked specifically if the have a PhD nutritionist or veterinary nutritionist on staff. They said they didnāt employ any veterinarians as veterinarians do not have much nutritional training but they do have a PhD nutritionist. sadly they seem completely unaware that veterinary nutritionists exit.
Most companies do not employ a veterinary nutritionist including Zignature For companies making foods to support medical conditions I do indeed want to see a veterinary nutritionist on staff and my preference for well pet diets is to have a veterinary nutritionist on staff or as a consultant. But for well pets I think there are some very talented and knowledgeable PhD nutritionists that can do a fine job.
aimee
ParticipantHi Kate C
Earth Animal guarantees 100% satisfaction with the product. Since you are not satisfied then go back to the store where you purchased the product and ask for a return of your money. They in turn will have to collect back from Earth Animal.
My understanding from my state feed control official is that Earth Animal has revised the labeling. That may be all the state can have the company do as they do not have the ability to test the product and can not use the report I had done as they didnāt hold chain of custody.
It is a very frustrating situation.
aimee
ParticipantI have enough tanned āNo Hideā to make you a coin purse⦠Do you have a spare pencil holder? I could use one of those : ) Iāll post back in the response of the store owner.
aimee
ParticipantI have to say I did consider making a coin purse! Reminded me of being back in Camp Fire!
Maybe after I show it the store owner who sold me the chew. Do you think it will convince him that it isnāt what the label claims? When I bought it I told him I was going to tan it. He marked it so he can identify it when I bring it back. i covered the mark with a couple of coats of clear nail polish before starting the tanning process. It preserved his mark.aimee
ParticipantWhy didnāt I think of this before? My friend is a taxidermist. I asked him if I could tan a rawhide. He said I should be able to do it and advised hydrating it in a non iodized salt bath. He told me to let it dry out a bit until just damp then apply tanning solution to both sides of the hide and wrap in plastic wrap for 24 hours to soak in, then let it dry. I used Deer Hunters Tanning Oil from a local sporting goods store and I also tried my hand at egg yolk tanning,
I purchased a known rawhide and successfully tanned it! It looks like a light tan piece of suede. It really is quite pretty. Next I bought an Earth Animal cough cough āNo Hideā chew. I hydrated that and then tanned it. It tanned up beautifully! Main thing when tanning is that as the hide is drying you have to continually pull the hide. This is so it stays supple. I showed the results to the taxidermist he was amazed how well it came out!
For the egg yolk tanning I found videos on how to do this on you tube. I tanned a piece of the Earth Animal chew this way as well. It took longer to dry but again came out pretty well. No reason anyone couldnāt do this. Iād recommend using one of the thinner thickness chews for tanning.
aimee
ParticipantHi Tyrionthebiscuit,
I was thinking about this further. The small (4 inch) chew is reported as 1.8 ounces (51 grams) and the medium (7 inch) chew as 3 ounces (85 grams). It would make sense than that the large (11 inch ) would be equivalent to one 4 inch and one 7 inch which in ounces would be 1.8 +3 = 4.8 ounces or in grams 85 + 51 = 136 grams.
Looking at the company website they report the calories for the 4 inch beef chew as 150 kcal and for the 7 inch chew as 263. The 11 inch chew is reported as 413 kcals, which is the sum of the 4 inch and the 7 inch reported calories (150 + 263)
For the Chicken the 4 inch is 152 kcals and the 7 inch is 266 kcals for a total for the 11 inch of 418. For the Salmon flavor adding the calories from the 4 and 7 inch is one kcal away from the 11 inch and for the pork flavor 2 kcals away.
For the kcals to be as reported the large chew would have to be around 4.8 ounces and 136 grams, the sum of teh 4 inch and the 7 inch weights The one version of the label reported 4.9 ounces which would be 139 grams but then Earth Animal incorrectly listed 4.9 ounces as 255 grams.
So it appears that the company never intended to make a 255 grams chew and that that number is a goof up. It is interesting then that you are finding chews that weigh that much.
Yamka reported in his report that āOnce the rolls were cooled, they were cut into appropriate sizesā If the rolls started out as 255 grams then your 4 inch and 7 inch should have weighed a lot more then label weight so that that the total weight for a 4 inch and a 7 inch would total the weight of an 11 inch. What you are finding seems odd It makes me wonder if these chews are being sourced from more than one place and your 11 inch chews are from someplace different than you 4 and 7 inch chews.i
March 5, 2018 at 7:19 pm in reply to: can a large breed puppy have bones? #111804 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibilityaimee
ParticipantJennifer S,
In regards to your puppy diet follow this, āShe told me calcium is calciumā¦ā¦ . She said I shouldnāt be feeding any meat that has ground up bones in it or giving bones to chew, at least until he is olderā
NOT this, āthe calcium from bones affects dogs differently and they poop out what they donāt need.ā
Puppies can not regulate calcium absorption, therefore they will not just poop out what they donāt need. Calcium in excess of needs will be absorbed and can interfere with proper growth. Recommended Calcium level for growth is 3 grams/1000kcals
Iāve found that the myth that ācalcium from bones affects dogs differentlyā is perpetuated by those making inappropriate diets and trying to pawn off their poorly crafted food onto unsuspecting owners. Bone is a cheap filler!
aimee
ParticipantHi Tyrionthebiscuit,
Interesting that yours all weighed out correctly. What general part of the country are you in?Iām not sure what you mean by āthey are listed at different weights size, not all the same ā255ā gramsā Do you mean that for a particular size you found multiple label weights?
For simplicity Iām going to call them small, medium and large. The small ones by me were either labeled ā4 inchesā or 1.8 ounces (51 grams) the medium ones were either labeled ā7 inchesā or 3 ounces (85 grams) and the large were labeled either 11 inches, 4.9 ounces (255grms) or 9 ounces (255) grams
Are your large ones that weighed 255 grams ~ 11 inches or are they longer. If they are ~11 inches are they wider than the 7 inch and 4 inch ones?
The other thing I noticed is that there are multiple styles of roll. On the end of some are ācapsā for lack of a better word to describe then and others are the cut end scroll of the rolled material.
aimee
ParticipantThe managers of chain stores said while they agree there is a problem they have no input into what corporate tells them they have to sell and therefore there is nothing they can do. The managers though are not willing to inquire to corporate office. Instead they advised me to do so. Their body language was interesting. I interpreted it as they were fearful of their corporate owners.
The independent store employees were interested in the information and were very concerned. The owner of the store, who has said rawhide will never be in any of her stores and heavily markets this product, has so far said she believes in the product. I see it as she is emotionally invested in the company and canāt see things objectively.
The corporate owner of one of the chains said she canāt comment on a scientific report as she doesnāt have a science background. I sent her the findings of the first report and she doesnāt want me to forward her any other reports saying she will act only if regulatory makes her.
The other corporate owner never acknowledged my contacts with him.
So Iām seeing this pattern of those that are in a position of profiting off of the sale of the product as being unwilling or unable to objectively understand what the reports found. And those without money ties to the product are open to seeing it for what it is. Very frustrating, especially as these stores advertise how they carefully select for and only sell the best products that meet their high standards. All marketing hype!
This is what got me looking at weights. People can play the āscienceācard.. Oh I donāt understand the report it is too complicated for me⦠but hard to claim ignorance when the product label says 255 grams and it only weighs 107
aimee
ParticipantRecently what came to mind is if there are problems in one area of a company there may be problems in other areas as well. I went to several stores that sells No Hide Products. I took my kitchen scale with me and started weighing the No Hide products. In nearly all cases the product did not meet label weight.
The longest chews are labeled as 9 ounces (255 grams) but a few were are labeled as 4.9 ounces ( 255 grams) Obviously 255 grams can not be both 4.9 ounces and 9 ounces, 4.9 ounces is ~139 grams. The chew weights varied. The lowest weighted chew was 109 grams and the highest 155 grams. None met label claim of 255 grams.
Other sizes had problems as well. For the middle sized chew, labeled 85 grams, weights varied from 61-74 grams. The smallest size reported at 51 grams varied from 38 grams to 71 grams.
The packaged twists labeled at 85 grams were pretty uniformly between 64-66 grams and considering there wasnāt a way to weigh the packaging the true weight of the contents would be lower than this.
Before going to the stores I put brand new batteries on the scale and I weighed out some standard measures and found the scale to be accurate. I also weighed out various other items in the pet stores all which were at label claim.
From this small sample at three different stores it appears that the company has serious quality control problems. It would be interesting to me if others do or do not find similar weight issues in their areas and report that information here.
February 13, 2018 at 11:51 pm in reply to: Squirrel Question #110683 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibilityaimee
ParticipantKeep in mind squirrels can carry tularemia. People are at higher risk for infection then dogs. The infection can be life threatening. Why risk your health?
aimee
ParticipantHi crazy4cats,
By regulatory I mean I will be sending to the FDA and to my state feed control official. Iām going to try and find out if I can send to other state feed control officials or only my own state.
aimee
ParticipantThe lab report for the analysis of a known rawhide chew and comparison to the Earth Animal product that claims not to contain rawhide was received today.
This is the description of the known rawhide : āThe material appears to be composed of streams of eosinophilic material (no observable nuclei) with scattered regions of relatively distinct margins. The material is birefringent using polarized light. The diameter of this material varies (random sampling of measurements 27 um, 28 um, 30 um, and 33 um). Interspersed within the material are multiple clear spaces (artifact of processing vs. empty space within material).ā
Comment āThe product examined is from a known rawhide product. The rolled product appears to be composed of collagen-like material.ā ( For direct comparison this was the comment from the analysis of the Earth Animal product āāThe majority of the rolled product appears to be composed of collagen like materialā)
The two products were then compared:
āThe histomorphology of this product serves as a control product to allow for comparison of this product to the product examined in case #17-217 (No-Hide Salmon Chews, Earth Animal). Based on histomorphology, the composition of the rolled product in both cases is extremely similar when viewed microscopically with a majority of the product examined in
#17-217 being composed of eosinophilic material similar to that of the product examined in #17-279ā¦. Based on my evaluation of both products, I suspect that the product from #17-217 is composed of material similar to that of #17-279āBoth reports will be sent to regulatory I hope they do the right thing. In the mean time I think a grass roots effort to spread the word is in order.
aimee
ParticipantHi Tyrionthebiscuit,
Iām not sure what you trying to say. The dogs were diagnosed as having Acute Polyradiculoneuritis (APN) the canine equivalent of Guillain ā Barre. Guillain Barre has been associated with Campylobacter. The purpose od the study was to look at dogās diagnosed with APN and see if they have a higher incidence of Campylobacter than healthy dogs not diagnosed with APN, and they did.
To understand relevance of what you reported regarding asking 4 vets if they ever had a positive culture for Campylobacter in a raw fed dog I need more information. How many tests in total were run by each vet? What were the diet histories? What were the results and were the findings statistically relevant?
When evaluated in this manner raw fed dogs had higher incidents of pathogens.
aimee
ParticipantWow Anon!!
What an interesting post. Thanks for sharing it!aimee
ParticipantHi a.c.,
Like you surmised it also occurred to me that maybe the company doesnāt want to put anything in writing. If it isnāt in writing you can always say you didnāt say it : )
Looking at what is in writing, looks like there are problems there as well. I think all of these need to be on the label since the company is marketing this product as easily digestible: the word snack or treat on the front label , calorie content /unit and a nutritional adequacy statement.
Inked Marie,
This company is full of Wow momentsā¦..aimee
ParticipantI thought Iād provide an update of sorts. The estimated cost for a full analysis at a lab that identifies unknowns was ~2000.00 They would tell me all ingredients identified and in what proportions they are in. It was a bit more than I felt comfortable spending: ) I elected to instead have a known rawhide processed at the lab where I had the āNo Hideā processed.
Chris Moore never returned my calls but I did have an interesting conversation with Tom OāHare Vice President of Operations for Earth Animal. He told me that the chews used to be meat based but the company found that they could not make a durable chew that way so the meat was removed from the product about two years ago. He said currently the only meat in the product is in the outer coating of the chew. This is consistent with the findings of the diagnostic report I referenced above. I asked why, if there has been no meat in the white chew roll for 2 years, did Earth Animal in response to Dr Kallenbergerās report on the Truth About Pet Food site state ā One report discusses seeing microscopic blood vessel passages and flesh fibersā¦ā¦. we are not surprised at these observations as meat is an essential part of the ādoughā portion of the No-Hide. ā Additionally, I asked why on many pages of the EA site does it describe the chew as being made of meat? āThe chicken has been carefully rolled, cooked, and uniquely dried for a one of a kind chew your dog will love!ā In response to these questions Mr. OāHare said that information should never have been on the site and in the future E.A. will only be providing an ingredient list. I next asked how the company could meet the Guaranteed Analysis of the Salmon chew, reported at 55% min protein, when the primary protein source, Salmon, is only in the outer coating. He responded by saying brown rice flour is high in protein. I informed him that according to the USDA Nutrient database the protein content in brown rice flour is 7%. Next he said the protein comes from the gelatin. I responded that could be true of the other flavors but the Salmon chew uses agar which has a reported protein content of ~6 % Finally, he said the protein comes from the colored coating on the chew. I said I removed all the coating from my chew and it was only about 7% of the product weight. Even if the outer coating was 100% protein it wouldnāt account for the reported protein content of the chew. I also inquired as to how the carbohydrate level in the chews could be so low (2%-11%) when the chew is made of a high carbohydrate ingredient? He said the analysis is done by a third party and that is what it came out to be. I said the analysis doesnāt make sense. The carbohydrate content would only allow for a few teaspoons of flour in a small chew, not nearly enough to make a chew.
The conversation ended but the interesting thing is he called back about 5 min later and his whole affect was different. He said heād been thinking about my questions and that he canāt explain the discrepancies as he doesnāt have the background to do so. He promised to get me the answers saying that he would get in touch with Dr Yamka, Dr Goldstein, and a PhD that is on staff and get back to me.
After nearly a month had passed and he never recontacted me I e mailed him, he said I should contact Chris Moore. This is person I originally tried to contact. I contacted Chris by e mail and he asked that I call him right after Christmas, which I did, he didnāt answer. Initially, Chris respond to e mail, but he wouldnāt answer any questions nor tell me what would be good times to call him. He only wanted my cell phone number. He said he had a lot of questions for me. I said feel free to ask them but he replied that wanted to ask them by phone. Oddly, it seemed he only wanted to communicate by cell phone and only if he initiated the call. I told him Iād give him a cell number if I had one but I didnāt have a cell phone at that time. After that he broke off all communication with me and no longer responded to further e mails. I e mailed Tom and asked that he give me a different contact, that request and all other e mails to Tom or Chris have gone unanswered. All very odd.
The other day something occurred to me. When Purina reported that Blue Buffalo contained by product meal Blue Buffalo quickly filed a lawsuit against Purina. In the end of course they lost. But I thought it odd that Earth Animal as far as I know hasnāt made any such move.
Iāll post the analysis when I receive it.
January 21, 2018 at 4:45 pm in reply to: Prescription Diet and pooping too much? #109828 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibilityaimee
ParticipantHi Ryan K,
Iād recommend that you talk to your veterinarian. If your dog is on Z/D for the purpose of doing a food trial to shift off it now will defeat that purpose. As none of the limited ingredient diets you can buy without veterinary supervision are suitable for a food trial you may want to discuss with your veterinarian completing the trial with a different therapeutic diet.January 15, 2018 at 3:03 pm in reply to: Carbs and starch in dog food #109648 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibilityaimee
ParticipantPitLove, I donāt think that will ever happen. She never seems to let science get in the way of her agenda.
January 15, 2018 at 10:55 am in reply to: Carbs and starch in dog food #109642 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibilityaimee
ParticipantI agree! This is a myth that just doesnāt want to die!
Lynn Iām glad your dog is doing better. You wrote āI cook the meat and use dog friendly fruit and veggies. I leave all starch and carbs out.ā When feeding fruits and vegetables you are feeding carbohydrate, some which likely is in the form of starch. But that is OK as you canāt change yeast growth on the skin from carbohydrate content in the diet.
P.S. Potato protein is like the name reports a source of protein, it is not a source of starch.
December 2, 2017 at 3:58 pm in reply to: We're a new raw food company #107586 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibilityaimee
ParticipantHi K9Ancestraldiet,
I typically donāt feed raw but have used some freeze dried raw and have purchased raw diet to lightly cook before feeding.
But in answer to your question no I wouldnāt use your food. I start by evaluating the company and like to see one that meets WSAVA criteria and from your website I donāt see that. Maybe you do but it isnāt evident from the site.
The site makes statements without any references to back the statements up which is a real turn off for me. For example this: āRaw dog food is 99% digestible, resulting in smaller stools and increased activity for all organs. (The more they work with less rate of passage, the more blood flow to the organs and longer organ life) and this āDid you know that students at Kansas State University ground up a old boot and sent it in for analysis and it was selected as a commercial dog food for the market by AAFCO?ā. I think this is referring to a promotional piece from Hillās Science diet but somehow way skewed from what that marketing piece was about.
There isnāt any caloric information on the site, the feeding recommendations are vague and donāt look to be accurate as caloric requirements are not linear.
All in all from the material presented my first impression is that the company understands very little about nutrition, and doesnāt fact check. These are not the qualities I want to see in a company Iām trusting to meet my dog nutrient needs.
aimee
ParticipantHi a.c.,
Iāve seen Smart Bones in stores. Other then I can say they do look manufactured from a dough vs a natural product like hide I donāt know anything about themaimee
ParticipantGSDsForever,
In regards to hydrolyzed ingredients for home made recipeāsā¦. not that I know of but doesnāt mean it doesnāt exist.
aimee
ParticipantDharlee
So glad your boy is feeling better. I hope he continues to do well. Iāll let my friend know that her story helped you.
aimee
ParticipantGSDsForever.. Thanks for the kind words. They apply to yourself as well as a few other posters on this site.
Bobby dog thanks for seconding them.
aimee
ParticipantP.F.I. LOL!
The pathologist e mailed me this am. Heās reaching out to others so together can come up with plan to definitively identify. At his point we can only say what the science tells us ācollagen likeā You canāt state collagen based on microscopy alone.
Hopefully have a plan in a few days.. Iām wondering what all this will cost āgulpā but I want solid data to turn over to the feed officials..
aimee
ParticipantI received the lab report on the Salmon No Hide chews. This was done at a veterinary diagnostic lab by a forensic pathologist. The sample was submitted by my dogās veterinarian. The lab rehydrated the chew in deionized water. The pink coating is described as gelatinous and friable which floated within the water. The chew itself described as tough and not able to be manually torn or pulled apart. The white/tan chew material was processed separately from the pink coating material
The coating material is described as having no distinct organization and an accumulation of eosinophilic strands. āThe strands of material occasionally have multiple nuclei along the periphery and rarely cross striations are observed ( consistent with skeletal muscle) The myocytes [muscle cells] vary in diameterā¦ā¦.There are numerous aggregates that are clear ā¦ā¦ā¦ā¦.and brown crystalline structures within the materialā
Comments: āThe filling material appears to be a mixture of animal product (identification of skeletal muscle) mixed with a filler product( plant based material?)ā
For the chew itself: āThe material appears to be composed of streams of eosinophilic material( no observable nuclei) with relatively distinct margins. This material is birefringent using polarized light.ā I didnāt know what that last sentence meant and looked it up. I found that it is a measure of symmetry and is a reported characteristic of collagen.
Comments: āThe majority of the rolled product appears to be composed of collagen like materialāI found this interesting not only for what it says but for what it doesnāt say. The company describes the chew as being high muscle content ā meat is an essential part of the ādoughā portion of the No-Hideā and ā The wild caught salmon has been carefully hand-rolled, cooked, and uniquely dried for a one of a kind chew your dog will love!ā yet no muscle tissue was found on microscopic examination of the chew, only in the coating. Additionally, the chew had been described as being made of rice vegetable gelatin, oil and eggs with the protein added but no description of plant based products intermixed with animal based in the chew description ..only in the coating description. The chew is uniformly composed of collagen-like material.
Rawhide is the dermis of the skin which is a mat of collagen fibers. The pathology of this No Hide chew is consistent with dermis.
So what next.. Iāve already got hundreds invested into this and Iām going to take it farther. Iāll send out a labeled rawhide chew and have it processed as the No Hide was so a direct comparison can be made. Then depending on cost have specialized stains run.
Right now to my eye this forensic pathology report is consistent with this product being rawhide.
aimee
ParticipantHi GSDsForever,
Glad you find my posts informative. Happy to explain. I was going to post that Ultamino is Anallergenic renamed but you beat me to it.
There is hydrolyzed and then there is hydrolyzed⦠So yes there are several hydrolyzed diets being made. In all of the them the proteins are broken down to shorter Amino Acid strings. So for say Hillās ZD they report ~ 3000 daltons which is about 27 Amino acid length. Purinaās HA product 12,200 daltons ~ 111 Amino Acid length chains
When tested 25% of patients reacted to the hydrolyzed version of the protein in the diet if that was their trigger protein
With Ultamino 88% of the Amino Acids are as a single Amino acid and 95% less than 1000 daltons or ~ 9 amino acids. Reaction at his level canāt occur⦠but there still is that 5% over 9 AA.. are any of those chains long enough to cross bridge and cause a reaction. Never say never but pretty darn unlikely.
So for Ultiamino far less likely to get a reaction to the hydrolyzed form but also what Iāve heard is that the diet is great for GI problems as the AA are all separated ready and waiting to be absorbed : )
Hope that helps explain why Ultiamino is unique.
aimee
ParticipantHi Deborah M,
My heart goes out to you and your dog. In some ways your story reminds me so much of a friend of mine. Her dog was suffering from multiple issues, projectile vomiting and watery diarrhea, skin issues and shifting leg lameness. Her vet recommended RC hydrolyzed soy. There was no way she was going to feed that. We agreed to disagree on the topic.
For years I watched this dog suffer and always supported her when the dog was going through a tough bout. She tried one food after another āresearchingā at sites like this. And she suffered to.. not only because her dog was sick but because her dog had gone through cancer treatment and she always feared āITā was back and causing the signs. So she repeatedly had full cancer works ups done trying to find āITā and sheād be both relieved that IT wasnāt found and feared IT was there and no one could find IT. She was having anxiety issues.
Exhausted, she went back to her vet and asking for help there had to be something else and her vet gave her that same recommended she heard before. So off she went again to another specialist ā¦.and he gave her the same recommendation. Not having anyplace else to turn she fed the dreaded foodā¦.and everything resolved. The vomiting and diarrhea stopped, the shifting limb lameness stopped, and the skin cleared. She was dumbfounded how could it possibly be. It went against everything she learned through her research. And she asked me how could it be possible. I told her the body doesnāt care where the amino acid used to be it only cares that it has it the amino acid in a form that can be absorbed and used.
In regards to Ultamino there is no other diet like it. It is a unique one of a kind product as the āproteinā isnāt protein at all. Really the diet is technically protein free as the amino acids are all individual or groups of 2-3 amino acids. It is digested protein in that sense. It is what is used in neonatel formula for preemies whose tracts arenāt able to digest protein. RC told me that their source of Amino Acids is the same source as used in neonatel formula, it comes from, as I recall, Switzerland and yes in both incidents those amino acids used to be connected to many others that once made a feather shaft.. There is no feather meal in ultaminoā¦. there are AA in ultamino that used to make up feathers.
My friend was at her wits end.. so she fed the diet she said sheād never feed and her dogās medical problems resolved.. You are at your wits end⦠maybe like my friend it is time to take the vetā s advice.
October 27, 2017 at 12:21 pm in reply to: A question about Raw diet and bones. #105428 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibilityaimee
ParticipantThanks to Inked Marie and crazy4cats. I appreciate you taking your time to comment.
October 27, 2017 at 12:29 am in reply to: A question about Raw diet and bones. #105422 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibilityaimee
ParticipantSusan,
Iām sorry but Iām not understanding you. I said āshe doesnāt give her dog certain things because she recognizes it as not safe.ā The certain things being the pig ears and pig nose.
and I agreed with you that some dogs are donāt chew a lot before swallowing.October 26, 2017 at 12:26 pm in reply to: A question about Raw diet and bones. #105399 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibilityaimee
ParticipantHi Joseph,
When I was a teen I saw a dog choke to death on a large bone. As an adult my friendās dog suffered a serious abdomen infection because a raw bone shard penetrated the intestine. As Susan said it is normal for dogs to gulp their food but note she also said she doesnāt give her dog certain things because she recognizes it as not safe.Youāll have to decide what your comfort level is. Death from bone is natural but not what Iād choose for my dog.
aimee
ParticipantHi Jodi,
I started at the stores where the product is sold and asked for them to help me investigate. Sadly I havenāt had any luck but i think this is a place to start. Earth Animal guarantees 100% satisfaction so if you are not satisfied start there and get your money back for all the chews you purchased.
My hope is to find experts that will be able to tell me one way or another what this is. If the product turns out to be other than claimed then I will go to the state feed control official and FDA with that information and keep pressure on the stores that sell them.
aimee
ParticipantI understand your point from a dog owner education standpoint but personally I just canāt bring myself to blame her.. it was a tragic event.
As for the company⦠something isnāt right here. Size aside if the chew that led to that dogs death tests out as rawhide ( I thought i read the actual chew was being tested) I think she has a valid court case.
aimee
ParticipantPitlove,
I understand why people lay blame at the owners feet but Iām reluctant to. It was a small size chew but a 11 inch chew could have resulted in the same problem. The dog given a larger chew could have sheared off a shorter portion and swallowed. That is Brooke handles linear chews which is why they are not an option for her.
I also agree that Thixton has a history of not letting facts get in the way of a good story and jumps to conclusions.
Does it matter if the chew was hide? I think it plays a role here. I could see someone assuming that a chew made of those ingredients would break apart from jaw pressure from such a large dog, more like giving your dog a large biscuit whereas that assumption likely wouldnāt be made with hide.
a.c.
I paid 5.99 for 4 inch piece of No Hide and 1.18 for a similar sized rawhide. So yes people are paying a premium for this product.aimee
ParticipantThanks A.C.
I did see that along with the company rebuttal. There is no doubt in my mind that this chew is not solely made of the ingredients the company is reporting. Really no sense arguing over DNA analysis and digestibility testing, from a very simple practical standpoint you canāt make a chew with the profile and ingredients they are claiming to use and end up with a white chew.Of interest though is that the nutrient profile of No Hide is very similar to that of other chews made of hide: very high protein, very low fat and about 15% moisture. From import data the company that makes these, Pony Express foods has been importing tens of thousands of pounds of chews from China each month. The company said they are selling those at a farmers market. Must be some Farmers market to need ~5000 lbs of chews a week.
aimee
ParticipantI took a look at No Hide Chews trying to backward engineer a salmon chew. From the website we are given that the carb is 11%, fat is 5% and from the label the min protein is 55%, with 17% max moisture
The ingredients are Salmon, Vegetable gelatin, brown rice flour, organic eggs, olive oil banana and bromelain. Vegetable gelatin could be one of any number of things: ager or carageeanan or some other source. in general these are high carbohydrate sources. Ager is reported as 82% carbo, 6% protein and 3% fat. From the USDA nutrient database brown rice flour nutrient content, rounded off, is 12% water, 7.2 % protein, 2.8% fat, 76.5% carb and 4.6% fiber.
The company told us the carb content of the Salmon chew is 11%( the carb content of the pork chew is reported as only 2%) So~8.7 grams of my chew is carbohydrate split between vegetable gelatin and rice as the main carbohydrate sources with there being more agar then rice. If we assume 6 grams vegetable gelatin at 80% carbohydrate that gives us 4.8 grams carbohydrate and the remaining ~ 4 grams carbohydrate would have to come from rice ~ 5 grams of rice flour or about 1 and 1/2 teaspoons. ( the 4 inch pork chew would only have about 1/2 tsp rice flour in it.)
The fat content is reported to be 5%, 4 grams in my chew. Salmon is considered a fatty fish. From the USDA nutrient database dried chum salmon is ( rounded to the nearest percent) 62% protein 14% fat and 22% water. Dried Egg is 48% protein and 43% fat. and oil would be 100% fat. So as not to exceed the reported fat content I canāt use a lot of Salmon, 25 grams dried salmon yields 3.5 grams fat unless it is some type of defatted Salmon and I canāt use much egg or oil either or the fat content is exceeded.
Protein min of 55%, 43 min grams protein in the chew This has to come primarily from salmon, but it would have to be some type of special defatted salmon. Salmon is very deeply colored and the chew is white. Hmm⦠that doesnāt work does it. Maybe they bleach the salmon.. but the website states no bleaching process had been done. Salmon is pink/red and egg is yellow so youād expect the chew to be pinkish orange maybe. That color matches the coating on the chew but not the chew.
Well thatās weird isnāt it?? The chews is whiteā¦yet except for the rice flour of which there is very little in our chew recipe the ingredients are colored. How can the chew be white when the ingredients to make it are all colored? This isnāt making sense.
I boiled my chew pieces for about an hour. The chew was made of 5 oddly shaped and sized pieces and one rectangular ācoverā piece. Oddly though this didnāt change it too much. The sheets shrunk and curled but didnāt fall apart and you couldnāt tear it break it up at all. Youād think salmon rice and vegetable gelatin would fall apart.
I canāt replicate making a āno hideā chew. I canāt make a white chew out of colored ingredients nor can I match the nutrient content the company reports as being in the product if I stick to the ingredients and the USDA nutrient database.
I called and e mailed the company to ask them about the product. When I asked how the product can be so white I was given a different number to call for someone named Chris. Iāve called Chris multiple times but havenāt reached him. I never got a response to my email and it has been about a week since I sent it.
Personally I think there is an āingredientā missing from the ingredient list and I think it makes up the vast proportion of the product. I found a lab willing to test the product. I will send them a new sealed package of No Hide chews and see if they find anything.
September 23, 2017 at 1:10 pm in reply to: Potatoes vs lentils #104600 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibilityaimee
ParticipantHi Theresa,
I donāt know that I have a real strong preference for one over the other in regards to potato over lentils but my preference would be for potato. This is likely based on experience with my own dogās GI problems. And rightly of wrongly I associate lentils with gas. Iād imagine that like anything else there are individual responses which make one work better than another for that particular dog.
Hi Anon
The quote you posted from the Zigniture site was one I asked the company about. Starches are interesting. Potato when fed hot is high glycemic and when eaten cold falls into low glycemic or just outside the low range. Potato variety also plays a role.Since kibble isnāt fed hot I asked for a reference for that statement. The company wasnāt able to provide one and directed me to the GRI page Then they, in my opinion, dug themselves into an even deeper hole with saying potato feeds yeast and that ā many times when they[owners] see their dog itching, they assume itās an allergy and its actually candidaā There is no basis for such a statement. This was followed with a statement that by eliminating potato and grains from the diet youāll starve the yeast and their āproteins that assist in cooling the body down to help keep yeast from growing.ā
The company is making a lot of statements for which there is no evidence and appear to be pages taken right of the holistic handbook.
I took a look at the GRI. I found it very odd that they give out awards for ābest pet resortā and ābest pet food storeā and the winners are both in Florida a mere 11 miles apart from each other. No mention of how these businesses were chosen. I didnāt find anything about actually feeding the foods they are rating and measuring glucose levels. I did find that you submit an application for them to test your food and then they will tell you how much it costs. There is a yelp review that someone wrote saying they paid $6.000.00 and never received any results anything from them and now canāt get them to respond to his inquires.
Overall I donāt see this company as credible.September 23, 2017 at 3:36 am in reply to: Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition #104579 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibilityaimee
ParticipantHi Tyla,
Look at the AAFCO nutritional adequacy statement on the bag. Fromm foods that are marketed as Adult often carry an AAFCO statement saying that they are formulated for both growth and maintenance. If both the adult and puppy version of the line you are looking at are formulated for growth that is likely why you donāt see much difference between their āpuppyā food and their āadultā food.September 22, 2017 at 10:24 am in reply to: Beef rib from old carcass #104543 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibilityaimee
ParticipantHaleycookie.. count my dogs among the unfortunate. We are all shaped by experience. When I was a teen I saw a dog choke to death on a boneā¦. horrible imprinted memory. A friend used to feed raw, stopped after the dog had peritonitis from intestinal bone perforation. Events like these may be āextreme circumstancesā to use your words but I have to say they did not, to use your words āmake me laughā. When you experience it first hand it becomes very personal.
People should be informed of the risks of bone chewing and then decide if they are at peace with those risks. Iām not comfortable with those risks and others are. We can each respect each others decisions.
September 20, 2017 at 12:24 pm in reply to: Help~dog food advice for yeast thats also low sodium #104478 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibilityaimee
ParticipantHi Lori,
I think you are referring to Candida when you say you think your dog has yeast overgrowth inside his body. Candida normally an innocuous inhabitant of the bowel can invade other areas. Occasionally a dog can get Candida in the urinary tract, seen secondary to Diabetes for example. Candida inside the body is very rare and almost always occurs secondary to some other illness. Youāll have signs like fever, abdominal pain, weight loss, lack of appetite .. these dogs are very very ill and usually die.That said some years back a few loud voices attributed a myriad of problems including allergies to āyeast overgrowthā in the bowel. The idea has been abandoned by nearly all medical personnel because there are no medical finding to support the concept. A few people are holding tight to the idea despite lack of evidence that it occurs.
There is so much misinformation out thereā¦.be careful when researching as it is easy to go down the wrong rabbit hole
September 19, 2017 at 10:42 pm in reply to: Help~dog food advice for yeast thats also low sodium #104471 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibilityaimee
ParticipantHi Pitlove,
The vet gave her a list .. from a previous post today āI know the low sodium list made from the Cardiology dept from Medvet -Cincinnati uses the milligrams per KcalāI believe it is this list she has:
http://massvetcardiology.com/Data/resources/feedingthecardiacp/Medvet__Cincinnati__Heart_Friendly_Low_Sodium_Dog_Diets.pdfI think the problem is she was looking for other options that met her criteria of grain free and low carbohydrate.
Lori J
I canāt reconcile the % values for sodium to the caloric values.. Iām having to make some assumptions but what I calculate is so different from what they are reporting. Hopefully the company can explainSeptember 19, 2017 at 9:10 pm in reply to: Help~dog food advice for yeast thats also low sodium #104469 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibilityaimee
ParticipantHi Lori J
Keep in mind grain allergies are rare and that carbohydrates in the diet do not feed yeast on the skin. So sad that people that should know better write articles and post videos saying that you need a low carbohydrate diet to conquer yeast infectionsā¦. you donāt. The fact is that the type of yeast on dogās skin is a fat loving yeast. Give some of these guys all the carbohydrate they want and you know what happensā¦. they die because they need fat to live. But even if they were carbohydrate loving yeast. How would the carbohydrate get from inside the digestive track to outside the body which is where the yeast are? Hmmm see where that falls apart?Point is you donāt need a low carb foodā¦. you need a controlled sodium food. I took a look at the MedVet list.. lots of choices there including grain free options like Cal Natural kangaroo and lentils.
Have you looked at Nature Variety Instinct dry line? You might find something there, for example they are reporting their limited ingredient Duck as 0.3% Na =74mg/100kcals, limited ingredient turkey is 0.4 %=97mg/100 kcals Ultimate protein Duck 0.4% =89/100kcals. If you think one of the Natures Variety products would work check with the company to make sure the website info is accurate and check with your vet.
September 19, 2017 at 10:46 am in reply to: Help~dog food advice for yeast thats also low sodium #104453 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibilityaimee
ParticipantHi Anon,
The numbers donāt make sense to me either.
I didnāt find kcal/kg information on their website only/cup which isnāt very helpful and using those numbers and an assumption of grams/cup what I calculate isnāt even close. For example turkey reports 457 kcals/cup Iām assuming 110 grams/cup. Using the 0.54 % Na level which I assume is as fed I get 130mg/100 kcals ..less than half what they reported.I realize one set is on caloric basis and the other isnāt but Iād expect that lowest and highest caloric values would be close to the same ranking as percentage. Could one set be canned formulas and the other dry?
I emailed them for some information on August 18th. I got an e mail back saying they needed time to answer my questionsā¦. still havenāt heard anything.
September 16, 2017 at 9:52 am in reply to: NuVet Plus Canine Supplement #104392 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibilityaimee
ParticipantHi Barry C,
Anon isnāt the only negative review see Cannoliās post. I also not a fan of NuVet. I donāt see that it would harm ⦠just donāt see that would do any good when added to a complete and balanced diet. Maybe things have changed since I last inquired, but the company would not provide me with a nutrient analysis of the product. This is always a red flag for me. Can they not provide it because they donāt know? And if they donāt routinely test their product to be able to provide a average nutrient analysis what else arenāt they testing?Mainly I see it as a supplement for people ā¦. it supplements their income when they get others to buy it: )
July 21, 2017 at 10:09 am in reply to: Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition #103161 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibilityaimee
ParticipantHi A,
The yeast on dogs skin is Malassezia which is a fat loving yeast, not a carbohydrate loving yeast. In fact you can supply certain strains of Malassezia with all the carbohydrate they want and they wonāt grow because they need fat. It is odd that people recommend not to feed carbohydrates as it āfeeds the yeastā but they donāt also recommend not to feed fat because it āfeeds the yeast.ā Both recommendations are equally silly. Yeast resides outside the body so what you put into the intestinal tract isnāt going to influence its growth unless the dog has a cutaneous food reaction ( allergy) to the ingredient.Ehrstrom 2006 actually investigated the idea that high carb contributes to Candida in woman and found glucose levels in secretions didnāt change after ingesting high glucose loads.
July 14, 2017 at 1:55 am in reply to: Food suggestion for diarrhea #102991 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibilityaimee
ParticipantThatās too bad that the vet didnāt make a recommendation. I read a bit on clostridial problems and found a diet high in soluble fiber to be recommended. The thing is when it says crude fiber that is a measure of insoluble fiber
Ask your vet if wither Hillās ID original or stress would be any good.
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