Weruva did not work out and now I have 11 cans of it I need to get rid of. I had only given them inbetween the Raw diet one teaspoon and vomit was all over the house. Guess it is just raw twice a day and that is it!
•Natural Selections™ Meals
– Free-Range Meat and Organic Vegetables
The highest quality USDA-approved ingredients, free of antibiotics, hormones or chemical pesticides.
•ZooLogics™ Meals
– Human-Quality, USDA-approved Ingredients
The same complete formula but with conventionally-raised, human-quality ingredients. It’s the most economical way to feed fresh food to your dog. Great for those on a tight budget or with several large dogs.
What is the difference and is Organic really that much better and I know there are different levels of organic quality and the price difference does make a difference when you are feeding 4 dogs Raw but at the same time I want my 4dogs to get the best that they can get. Right now we are getting the Organic but I am also wondering about the Zoologics and how many of you feed this over the Organic and vise vera if so? I do plan to contact Darwin’s to ask them the difference to see what they say but I would also like your opinions to compare? Is Organic all it is cracked out to be?
Also I am feeding the turkey but if I decided to switch to another Darwin’s protein meat should I mix or not?
Hi NectarMom –
Darwin’s turkey formula is 46% protein and 27% fat.
Well I would say you sliced that up pretty well. I got my marrow bones from Darwin’s and they told me on the phone they were 2-3 inches each and might I just say these things are huge. I have no idea how my tiny girls would be able to do anything with these. They need chewing exercise and I have no clue now what to get. I gave them a mercola soft chew and that thing had my one girl so bloated and my other one has started chewing on her side again after not doing that for so long. Acid reflux is back also and I am not sure what has caused that. I gave Raw yesterday morning and yesterday evening and Raw this morning , they have had no kibble since tues evening and thats when they had the mercola soft chew. I dunno.
My vet said I may have to cut down protein and fat. Does anyone know how much protein and fat is in Darwin’s Raw turkey. They get 1/2lb total each a day of Raw.
Everything I’ve read says to refreeze them not to boil them, that would be cooking.
I need help also. I have a seven year old female lab/pointer mix. She was found abandoned as a puppy, full of ticks, mouth sores and mange. About two years ago she started scratching under her mouth and licking her belly so much it became raw and infected. I visited several vets who would put her on antibiotics to clear up the belly, but it always comes back. It is now mostly cleared up and itching controlled somewhat with Benadryl. I have talked with the canine dermatologist at the local university and she wants me to do the 8 week food trial before she does a blood test for allergies. She said use a food that has only ingredients that the dog has never had before. Therein lies my challenge. She has previously been on many different foods. I did an 8 week trial using Canidae Pure Sea, but she is still scratching, has terrible flatulence and gurgling stomach. Can anyone recommend a food to try since it now appears she has a sensitive stomach also. The vet also said to avoid grain and chicken. Thanks in advance for your help.
Betsy,
Hmmmm…no answers for you on that one! I don’t believe I ever have half eaten marrow bones laying around! For large bones like a lamb shank, I’ve tried to rinse the grass and dirt off with just water and put them in the frig for a day and after that back in the freezer, dirt/grass and all. It gives them a little fiber and soil based organisms!
Hey guys,
I was thinking about sanitizing bones. We have about half a dozen half eaten marrow bones laying around today. They were inside and outside ~ they got dirty and gross. I was wondering how long was too long for a bone to be left out? I picked them all up, rinsed them off and put them in a big Ziplock in the fridge, but wondered if I should drop them in boiling water for a minute or something before I give them back to the dogs to gnaw on again.
HDM, I did indeed watch your videos and that is what made me want to get my dogs some Raw Dental Chews of some sort. I lost my last shihtzu to cancer and I am quite sure it was from something in kibble. Her parents were show dogs and lived to be 15 and 17yrs, she passed away at only 10yrs old but we battled the cancer until we finally had to let go. If I can help these I have now live longer by feeding them at least the best that I can then I will do whatever it takes. These 4 girls are my children.
I was feeding Wellness 95% turkey mixed in enough to coat the evening dinner but after reading up on it and seeing it has caraggeenan in it and it does not sound like a good ingredient to feed so I am ordering some Weruva kurbuta hero because it has organic turkey but also has some ham. I don’t feel completely safe feeding wellness. What does anyone think of Weruva. I still have enough kibble I want to use up and not waste so they need a can food to help them eat the Brothers allergy food or other wise it would sit there untouched. We are doing Darwin ‘s Raw in the morning and kibble with a topper in the evening until we run out of kibble and then it is all Raw.
Hi bigcoco-
If you check out the recommended raw menus thread you’ll see some of my menus. My most recent menu (located near the end of the thread) had a full nutrient analysis done and it exceeds the AAFCO nutrient standards for all life stages. You can check out what types of things I’m adding to supply trace nutrients. I make my own whole food supplement my mixing equal parts kelp, alfalfa, spirulina, wheatgrass and bee pollen – they come in powder form that I order from Swanson. I also add things like sprouted nuts and seeds, dairy, oysters, sardines, cod liver oil, etc.
I find that the cheapest way to add muscle meat is gizzards, hearts and green tripe. Although not very appealing to people, these are all quality sources of nutritious and cheap protein for dogs. I have three large dogs that, combined, consume over 6 lbs. of meat per day. About 90% of their meals are raw meaty bones, organs and things like gizzards/heart/tripe – I’d never be able to afford feeding them if they were getting things like boneless skinless chicken breast and lean ground beef as the main component of their meals on a daily basis.
Assuming you are talking about the Happy Hips jerky made by Dogswell, they do not contain 100 IU vitamin E per strip – they contain 100 IU vitamin E per kilogram. Meaning your dog would have to eat over 2 lbs. of treats to get 100 IU vitamin E. Also – just a warning – while I haven’t heard of any issues with the Dogswell brand specifically, a lot of dogs are getting very sick by eating jerky treats made in China and the Dogswell treats are made in China. Just be careful. I personally give my dogs a human vitamin e supplement. My dogs are all large (ranging in size from 68 lbs. to 110 lbs.) – I divide 2-400 IU capsules between their daily breakfast mix so each dog gets about 267 IU per day. I would say you could give your dog a 200 IU capsule daily or a 400 IU capsule every other day.
Hi weimlove –
As far as wild game, I’ve only fed my dogs venison that my dad shoots. I’ve honestly never contemplated feeding shark or heard of anyone feeding it. I did a quick search and found two sites that say it is safe to feed: petmanage.com/fish-health/raw-fish-diet-for-dogs.html and rawlearning.com/fish.html. I would definitely give it a good long freeze though. I also wouldn’t go overboard as I’d assume shark is high in mercury.
Yep what they don’t know will not hurt them and I watch my dogs eat everything so its not like I would let them run in the corner of the backyard and me not see them eating something. They love freeze dried duck feet but we never tried the raw before but we just may 🙂 shhhhhh we won’t tell Daddy and the girls can have them when he is at work LOL
Hi schnauzermom –
I had a similar scare with one of my dogs (Gertie, the dog in my avatar) several months ago. I woke up one morning and there was a huge red lump on her paw that was not there the night before. Luckily it turned out to be a histiocytoma which is a benign growth common in young dogs, it disappeared on its own after about a month. Giving probiotics and enzymes will definitely help to keep his immune system in top condition. The kefir should cover his probiotic needs, most brands have well over 10 strains. You could give an enzyme supplement or, better yet, incorporate raw green tripe and/or pancreas into his meals. My dogs don’t get supplemental probiotics or enzymes but they do get raw green tripe several times per week and kefir daily. One enzyme, in particular, that appears to be effective in cancer treatment/prevention is bromelain – it’s derived from raw pineapple. You could puree some fresh raw pineapple to add to his meals a few times a week or purchase a bromelain supplement. Another supplement you may want to consider is turmeric or curcumin (the active concentrate found in turmeric). Turmeric looks to be a promising cancer preventative based on a few studies that have been done. When Gertie developed her histiocytoma I added 1/4 C. pureed fresh pineapple to her meal every other day and gave her 1 tsp. turmeric daily. I still continue to give all my dogs turmeric on a regular basis.
Has anyone heard of or bought from http://www.moesmeats.com/shop_meat/, they have bulk chicken feet and I was just wondering if those are safe for small dogs that inhale the raw meals and chews? If you have not heard of them can you recommend a safe place to buy chicken feet? I want to test my shihtzu with something in raw chicken to see if she would be allergic to it like chicken in kibble.
Yeah I am so glad it is working for our dogs. I might have to try another protein next go round , my hubby made the comment that it was not that bad expensive but then I told him that was half raw and half kibble and then when I told him how much to feed the dogs for 5 weeks he bout hit the floor LOL
When you say “spots” are you referring to hot spots?
My dog started scratching a lot and getting hot spots as well. I did take him to the dermatologist and he can only assume it’s a food allergy as he has been tested for airborne allergies and come up clean. He recommended Z/D as well but the ingredients are crap so I’m doing my own food trial. Problem is with allergies they want you to feed him a hydrolyzed protein which is what the Z/D can provide. Other option is raw. I have 2 large dogs and raw is too costly. I’m going to switch his food to Great Life which is very minimal ingredients to see what happens. However you need to know it can take about 8 weeks to see any difference.
I am also trying the Bertes Digestion Blend and *AANGAMIK® DMG LIQUID, also from B-Naturals. Unfortunately allergies is a tough fight. When I took my guy to the dermatologist, we went to the University of Madison which has a vet school. Prices are much more reasonable and they do a very thorough investigation as they have vets in training. If you have a vet school nearby you might want to give them a try. Good luck!
Paula
Hi Bigcoco –
1) 30% bone is way too much. As Patty said, bone should comprise 10% of the diet. The calcium to phosphorus ratio needs to be between 1:1 and 2:1 (ideally around 1.2 – 1.3:1). When the diet is 10% bone, 10% organ meat and 80% muscle meat the calcium to phosphorus ratio is right within that optimal range. A diet of 30% bone will be throwing that ratio of balance.
2) I checked out the product website and I can’t see where organs are included in the mixes? All I see is where they state 70% meat and 30% bone. If organ meat is not included in adequate quantities in the 70% “meat” you’ll need to feed organ meat. Organ meat should comprise 10% of the diet – 5% being liver and 5% being other organs (kidneys, lungs, spleen, pancreas, brain, etc.). Organ meat provides crucial vitamins and minerals that aren’t provided by muscle meat.
3) I can’t find where the level of vitamin e in the Bravo salmon oil is stated on their website and often the amounts added to fish oils are too low. I checked out the Pet Naturals of Vermont Daily Best supplement and there is little vitamin e in that either. Small dogs should get 50 – 100 IU per day, medium dogs 100 – 200 IU per day and large dogs 200 – 400 IU per day. Vitamin e requirements increase when fish oil (omega 3’s) is being supplemented, if adequate quantities are not received with omega 3 fatty acid supplementation the dog will eventually develop a vitamin e deficiency.
4) It’s also possible your dog could be deficient in certain trace nutrients – it’s hard telling without a nutrient analysis but because the Pet Naturals supplement is designed to be fed with a complete and balanced commercial food the amounts of vitamins and minerals are very low (as they are with most pet supplements). To ensure your dog is getting all the trace nutrients he needs I’d recommend either supplementing with a human multivitamin – base the dosage off a 100 lb. person (i.e. 25 lb. dog gets 1/4 human dosage, 50 lb. dog gets 1/2 human dosage, 75 lb. dog gets 3/4 human dosage, 100 lbs.+ gets human dosage) – or adding whole food supplements. I prefer to avoid synthetic supplements for my dogs so I feed a variety of nutrient-dense whole food supplements like kelp, alfalfa, bee pollen, spirulina, wheatgrass, glandulars, sprouted nuts & seeds, etc.
“Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown is a fantastic resource for raw feeding. It’s a really great book for beginners – short and easy to understand and includes AAFCO compliant recipes. You may want to checkout this book. It was a constant resource for me when I first started feeding homemade raw.
Raw should be about 80% meat, 10% bone, and 10% organs(half should be liver). I also add fish oil, superfoods, and a whole foods vitamin supplement. An easy way to get started balancing your raw is to get a premix.
I get raw from 3 companies and the grocery store, but Darwin’s is the only “balanced complete” diet I buy. I really like it.
So my 8 year old dog is currently getting the following for every meal (fed twice a day):
8oz patties (sliced from 5 lb. Armillenos K9 raw tube.. either beef, chicken, duck, or turkey.. and contains 70% meat, 30% bone)
Probiotic
Salmon Oil (by Bravo that supposedly has vitamin E in it)
Multi vitamin from Pet Naturals
Chondrotin treats X2 from Pet Naturals
+ A little bit of veggies mixed in.
He is doing fine on this, but I feel I am missing something. His energy level is lower (meaning he doesn’t like to run a lot, but can do long walks with out a problem).. He seems to need to urinate on everything, even if nothing comes out…His coat is OK (maybe I need to add more salmon oil..?)..
Any suggestions?
Thanks as always for the info Patty. There are so many options out there. I was looking at another website for stuff “Steve’s Raw” and they just had a recall so moving on to the next supplier. I hope Darwin’s never runs into a recall but if they do I will be forced to buy and make my own which will probably end up being the case just with the expense. But right now Darwin’s is working and is so convenient for us.
Dentibones have some BAD stuff in them. You are better off giving a raw rib bone or turkey neck. For a dog with a sensitive stomach always add probiotics. Find one with as many different strains as possible. Swansons has a couple good ones and Mercola has a good one too.
Patty,
Boone’s can’t eat chicken in kibble but he got got a tablespoon of Hare Today’s chicken in with the turkey. Hopefully he can eat raw chicken just fine. We’ll find out!
I need something about 2-3 inches big because my dogs are carpet rats. Patty you might be right on the chicken since Raw is so much more different than kibble. Have you tried turkey hearts before? I have a few places in mind that I want to order from and then I might need another freezer too LOL! I need something that cleans my dogs teeth and something they can gnaw on to keep them busy instead of them up my rear all the time.
One of my dogs can’t handle chicken in kibble, but he can handle it raw as long as I only give it for one meal every few days. Once you go raw, it is amazing the changes you see in what your dog can handle.
I have 3 different companies raw in my freezer and 3 different homemades too. I also have beef ribs, goat ribs, and sheep ribs. And duck necks, turkey necks, and chicken necks. Close to 100 pounds total.
Which is nothing compared to what Sandy has…
Cooked turkey wings can definitely splinter, no problem raw.
Probiotics and digestive enzymes will help with the gas, diarhhea, and ear infections. I would get him on them as quickly as possible. Human ones from the health food store will work. Find a probiotic with as many different strains as possible. You may find that some of his allergy issues are because his gut is not as resiliant as it should be and the probiotics help a lot. If shopping online Swanson’s has really good ones.
I would not feed a kibble with several different kinds of protein until you figure out which ones don’t bother your little guy. Stick with a food that has very few ingredients.
I also used Brothers Complete Allergy Formula and raw with good results, but my dog didn’t have the same issues or to the degree that your’s does, so while I believe it would help, I don’t know that it would solve all your dog’s problems.
Patty, ok thanks for the reassurance. I kept reading that turkey wings can splinter so I just wanted to make sure.
I definitely give turkey wings, I even feed turkey legs, well actually since I got my new meat cleaver, I feed whole turkeys, in pieces of course.
Pugmomsandy- ok great! Shadows definitely not a gulper so I’ll see how he does with it tonight. Are they safe for teeth?
Turkey wings are safe to eat as long as your dog is not a gulper!
Thanks Sandy! I will try those sometime. Darwin’s recommended Marrow bones because my one piggy chihuahua swallows things whole and has choked before and they said that with the marrow bones as small as my dogs are they cannot bite off big pieces and choke on them so I added a couple of bags of those on my order and we will see how the girls like them. In the past we got the basted knee cap bones ( not raw) and they loved those so hopefully they will like these and they will stay busy chewing on these. I wanted to order the Duck necks but Darwin’s said they have bones in them and my dogs could possibly choke on them if they tried to swallow the whole thing.
Fact is one of the raw material of dog food is meat and bone waste taken from slaughter house as dry product and they are unfit for human consumption since it contains blood, hair, hoof, hide rumen etc. companies don’t provide the information about the animal they use to get the meat. it may be goat, cow, chicken or even dogs and cats. Also the meat which is stored for long days may turn poisonous even its preserved sometimes. So, i decided to avoid pet foods which does’nt contain these meat.
My doubt is- i know many types of grains has proteins, fiber contents than meat….. is it advisable to avoid meat?.. will my dog fall ill if i don’t provide him the food with meat content.?
If no, kindly provide me with brands which produce meat free dog food…
Pls Mail me to [email protected]
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This topic was modified 12 years, 9 months ago by
Suresh PM. Reason: Spelling mistake
What can anyone recommend as a dental bone without bone LOL…My DH will not allow the dogs to eat any part of an animal that has big bones that they might can choke on. I really want to stick with Raw things but it looks as though I am limited since we are on just turkey Raw. Also don’t they need Omega 3 and 6? What should I get for that? I just got my order from Mercola and I am adding the Spiralina tablets in with the Raw.
Wow I thought I was the only one with a dog with such horrible symptoms as this. My chihuahua is like a walking epi pen I have to keep injectable steroids and injectable Benadryl on hand in case she gets stung by or bit by an insect. Shes highly allergic to them. I could loose her in. Matter of 2 seconds if I don’t inject her. We were using Acana and she had bad gas and bloat ( she has intestinal food allergies too) I don’t know what ingredient she is allergic to but I know for certain chicken does not agree with her. She also got bad acid reflux on it and so did my other 3 dogs. From what I gather they could not handle the high protein. We switched to Brothers Allergy kibble and the Allergy symptoms eased up but did not totally go away but improved a lot but the acid reflux stayed. ( For a kibble I would still recommend this food) I am still feeding it until I run out and we are now feeding Darwin’s Raw which in only 2 weeks doing a half Darwin’s half kibble a day plus probiotics and enzymes the results for all 4 dogs is amazing. Acid reflux is gone and no gas and stools are always firm. No licking feet and they all seem to have more energy. My oldest just got her teeth cleaned yesterday and my vet made the comment about her fur and asked what I was bathing her in because she had the softest fur. I told him its not the shampoo it is what I am feeding her “Raw”
Seriously, I am not one to push food on anyone with they’re pets but I swear by Raw now and only wish I would have started mine out when they were puppies on it. But if you just cannot feed Raw then I recommend Brothers Allergy or at least a limited ingredient kibble and possibly grain free. Good luck to you. This is one of the best sites and the people on here are very knowledgable and wise.
Are turkey wings safe to give?
we feed our dogs raw and merrick’s grain free, have had no problems. if your worried about blue buf then I suggest you switch to keep your peace of mind. there are lots of good foods to choose from, I suggest you look right here at 4 and 5 star foods. a few suggestion are merrick’s, fromm’s canidae all grain free would be my suggestion. sometimes the grains can cause loose stools. good luck
My dogs like the Mercola gentle chews, but then they like everything. The chews don’t last more than 5 mins for my small shelties. I don’t think they are as nutritious as raw necks or wings.
Have you ever tried canned, dehydrated, or raw?
Thanks Patty , That gives me an idea of how much to feed. darwin’s wasn’t sure because like you said each dog i different. The good news is we have decided after our next batch arrives we are going all Raw with all 4 of our girls. JRT are a bit more active than chihuahuas and shihtzu’s so I think 1/4 twice a day will be fine. My husband sees the difference in our two problem girls and he agrees lets go all Raw but he says no way are we feeding chicken bones or any Raw whole bones because one of our chihuahuas inhales her food and she has almost choked before on pig ears (we fed those a long long time ago and read up how bad they are and stopped. He does not want any of the dogs choking and dying from eating a chicken neck or wing (rolls eyes) but at least he has agreed to all Raw. My freezer will be here tomorrow and just in time for me to fill it with my new 20 lbs of Darwin’s .
Question, has anyone tried mercolas gentle chews? Are they safe for dogs with allergies?
pugmomsandy,
I placed my order for Xkaliber and tripe/trachea/gullet mix after reading that’s what HDM feeds her dogs, I figured the more variety the better. One of my shelties had dental work done so I have to be careful not to feed hard chews. They don’t care for the dried trachea chews from pet stores, so I’m interested to hear how your dogs like the raw tracheas, maybe I’ll get some next time. It will be a while before I place another order so no hurry.
Sheltiesmom,
I haven’t given them yet. This is my first time ordering them (trachea and cow hooves). I already have a tube of tripe and a tub of homemade raw thawing out so I will try the new stuff out later. But I have used the GT.com tripe (regular and xcaliber). I now have a local source for tripe so I probably won’t be ordering that particular item from GT.com. I’ll post some pictures next week of the trachea and cow hooves. I saw the calf ribs while I was picking up my order and your dog could definitely eat those. They were about the width of lamb ribs which mine have eaten before.
Hi Sheltie’s Mom –
If you’re feeding a balanced commercial food you don’t need to add any organ meat and I’d keep the tripe to 20% or less of the meal. If you’re making your own food organ meat should account for 10% of the diet (5% liver and 5% other organs) and tripe can account for as much of the other 90% of the diet as you want. Tripe has a 1:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio so calcium doesn’t have to be supplemented to account for the tripe. Organ meat is very rich in phosphorus and contains almost no calcium so you’ll want to add around 1,200 mg. calcium per pound of organ meat fed. Gullet and trachea contain mostly cartilage and a small amount of muscle meat – they have close to a 1:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio. If you’re just feeding trachea or gullet once in awhile as a chew, I wouldn’t worry about balancing the calcium to phosphorus ratio.
Thanks HDM, I’m learning so much from you and from everyone’s experience. Couple more questions, what is the percentage of the tripe/organ mix should I add to their food? And do I need to worry about adding calcium with tripe/organ mix? I understand tripe alone have the perfect ratio of calcium.
Trachea and gullet are great. Yes you’d feed them like chews. I’ve ordered tracheas from My Pet Carnivore – the dogs love them and they last a lot longer than the dried trachea chews. Trachea and gullet and both almost pure cartilage so they are high in glucosamine and chondroitin – great for the joints. The great thing about raw trachea is they’re very easy to slice into smaller segments for smaller dogs, you can just use scissors.
I want to order from greentripe.com and noticed the beef trachea and cow gullets, do you feed those like chews? Have you tried their tripe combinations?
The pugs can consume pork ribs and sometimes you can find small turkey necks at Sprouts. Greentripe.com has calf ribs I will try when my group puts in another bulk order. I just recieved from them a dozen beef trachea and a case of tripe stuffed hooves. I’ve also noticed that Sprouts cuts their turkey backs into 2.5-3 inches wide pieces.
Ox tail and wings are good for small dogs too. I have a 13 lbs and 2 40 lbs dogs. When I get turkey necks, I have the butcher cut off about 3 inches from one end and then cut the rest in half. I do the same with the ox tail.
