[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi ashylynn –

HPP stands for high pressure processing. Some view it as a good thing, others view it as a bad thing – I view it as a bad thing. Foods that are HPP are subjected to very high levels of pressure, the pressure kills bacteria without applying heat so the food can still be sold as “raw.” The downside to HPP (why I don’t like HPP) is that when large amounts of pressure are applied to proteins (such as during HPP) the proteins can denature and the beneficial bacteria is killed along with the “bad” bacteria. For me raw is about feeding a diet as close to a dog’s ancestral diet as possible and minimizing processing. I don’t personally view HPP “raw” as a truly raw product, but it can definitely be beneficial for immune compromised dogs that can’t handle the bacteria load present in real raw food.

[Hound Dog Mom]

My oldest dog used to eat kibble and Nature’s Variety Instinct kibble was one of the foods I used frequently in his rotation. He did really well on it and I think their kibble is one of the best dry foods available. I use the Nature’s Variety Instinct freeze-dried raw medallions once in awhile for treats. I’ve never fed their frozen raw and I personally wouldn’t because it’s HPP, but due to the fact that it’s HPP it might be a good option for a dog that’s never eaten raw before to help them ease into a less processed diet.

[Cyndi]

Thank you Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Chicken backs are approx. 50% bone and leg quarters are approx. 30% bone.

[Cyndi]

Ok, Thanks Patty! Also, if I start feeding Bailey a chicken leg quarter or a chicken back every day for dinner to start off to get her accustomed to raw, isn’t that too much bone per day? I don’t know the percentage of bone to meat in a back or a leg quarter, but it just seems to me like it might be too much bone per day…

[pugmomsandy]

kcarter137,

The Asian and Mexican supermarkets will also have a selection of organs, feet, and also hearts and gizzards. I buy wild caught sardines from the Mexican supermarket on sale for 1.19/lb. For my small dogs, one 3 oz sardine is a meal but you could use it for a topper too.

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/IMG_4047600x450_zpsf34c6610.jpg

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/IMG_60801024x821_zpsad7d39eb.jpg

[theBCnut]

When I switched to raw I had a young puppy with issues and was not willing to fast him for long at all. I started adding a little raw as toppers to my dogs meals and when I was adding enough, I switched to feeding raw one meal a day.

Every one who suggests fasting usually says skipping one meal is enough. You just want the kibble to clear the system. So just arrange it so the meal before you start raw is the Deli Fresh.

My dogs don’t have any trouble with me mixing raw with kibble, feeding just kibble, and then turning around and feeding a whole meal of raw.

[theBCnut]

I started by googling homemade dog food and went with the yeast starvation diet since it only needed a very limited number of things added to it. That gave me time to do more research. I started out using raw as a topper to their kibble and then I moved to feeding one meal raw, the other kibble. like Sandy, I’m the only one in the house that is willing to give raw meet to the dogs so mine or also still on kibble too, just in case.

[ashylynn]

Thank you both for your feedback – I’ve had my eye on Nature’s Variety food they offer a “regular” variety, a grain free and a raw diet. I’m not sure if I would want to switch to strictly raw – but the thought of offering it to them sometimes is nice. Do either of you have any feedback on this food variety? Thanks to both! 🙂

[Cyndi]

Hi everyone!

I am going to start Bailey on raw this weekend. Already bought some chicken. Just waiting til I get paid so I can buy more, and buy a food scale, etc. I have a question about fasting her before I start. Do I need to fast her before she starts on raw, and for how long? Right now she eats a cup of Nature’s Variety Instinct for breakfast and Deli Fresh Chicken and Veggies for dinner, which I will be switching to her breakfast and feed her raw for dinner to start off. So, I just would like to know everyone’s thought on if I should fast her and for how long when I start her on raw. Oh and when I do fast her, how do I go about not feeling bad for not feeding her a meal? Lol! What do you guys do with your dogs or for them when you fast them?

Thanks, again, so much for all your help. The past week I have been reading just about ALL the forum topics and really trying to educate myself. It’s gotten so bad that when I want to go back and reread something I had read, I can’t find it because I can’t for the life of me remember which topic and which thread I read it on, lol!

Have a great day everyone!! 🙂

• This reply was modified 12 years, 11 months ago by Cyndi.

[pugmomsandy]

DieselJunki,

I started introducing raw with commercial frozen patties. I gave them a few bites a day and that was it and slowly increased it to a whole feeding. Then one day I decided to try chicken wings a couple times a week. As they did well I increased the types of raw I fed like legs and necks and ribs. They were also eating kibble. Then I bought the recipe book by Dr Becker. Actually I bought that book and read it and thought it was difficult so it sat around for a couple months until I decided to do it – make my own grinds. So after my first batch (and purchasing a grinder) I decided it was easy like 1 – 2 – 3. Just go at your own pace and what you have time for and maybe keep some backup food. I still feed kibble as I’m the only one in the house that feeds the dogs raw so when I’m not home, they eat kibble. Also good to have when going on trips or leaving the dogs at home for a pet sitter.

[DieselJunki]

I was reading around and heard that watching your dogs poop is the easiest way to tell if your giving to much bone (or organs). If your are feeding to much bone the poop is hard and white, feed to much organ and it’s runny and soft.

I’ve also read in many places where people that are experienced with raw just say “do it.” Just start it and make adjustments as you go. It just makes me so nervous because I want to be sure I am not making a mistake that would harm him you know.

I also read that if you feed grinds that they don’t get the benefit of a teeth cleaning that tearing into a chicken leg or whole chicken would be. I wouldn’t think that would be a huge issue if you were feeding some turkey necks or something mostly whole once or twice a week right?

I believe to start off Patty I might order those grinds from their site. I have 2 weeks to really make up my mind and get my act together before he gets home from being boarded. At least it will give me piece of mind knowing he’s getting what he needs and until I get completely comfortable with it. Until then, more research! 😛

[soho]

Hi ashylynn,

Since your dogs have been on commercial dog foods their whole lives I would not just switch them to raw. Dog’s digestive systems adjust to whatever type of food (raw, cooked, kibbled, canned, etc) that they are eating. In your case your dogs may have a hard time with the added bacteria present in raw due to the fact that the pH of their stomachs is not acid enough at the moment. Some dogs also do not like the taste of raw after all those years (or 13 months) of eating cooked foods. Lastly without knowing the state of your dog’s immune systems it can be pretty risky switching from kibble or canned to raw.

A home cooked diet of at least 75% meat and 20 to 25% non-starchy fruits and vegetables would be a great step up for your dogs without the added risks of raw. You could then gradually start cooking their food less and less and see how they do. If everything goes well they could eventually be eating a diet consisting of raw meats and pureed fruits and vegetables.

If you go the homemade route don’t forget to add calcium if they are not consuming raw meaty bones and a good multivitamin to balance out their diet.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi ashylynn –

I suggest putting them both on a high quality grain-free diet – raw is best if you’re willing. There’s no reason two different dogs can’t eat the same food, all dogs (aside from those with serious medical issues) have the same basic nutritional requirements and will generally thrive on a high protein, low carbohydrate diet. The only thing that will differ between the two dogs is their energy requirement (portion size). Your mastiff pup will need more calories and thus require larger portions and your chi will require less calories and thus need smaller portions. I have a 110 lb. 8 year old, a 68 lb. 2 year old and a 75 lb. 10 month old – they all eat the exact same thing.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 11 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi alfiethebulldog –

I had never heard of it but I just checked it out. The website it pretty sketchy. The ingredients and general analysis don’t look horrible but it’s definitely not a top notch food and not worth $80 a bag. I’d say it’d probably be rated 4 stars and suggest that if you have that kind of money to spend on food you spend it on a 5 star kibble or consider a more species-appropriate diet of raw or canned foods.

[ashylynn]

HI, I’m really looking for some help. I have an older (8 years) chihuahua, neutered, less active dog that is very picky when it comes to taste. And we had gotten a beautiful Bull mastiff mix puppy last year (she’s currently 13 months old) however she’s only about 80 pounds or so and the vet said she’s likely not to get any bigger. And we need to keep her at this ideal weight. My chihuahua has been on a diet to get his weight down which is fine and dandy right now – but we are no longer able to give him all those tasty tidbits of mommas homemade chicken and gravy which he loves, and of course my puppy is a strict dog-food no table scraps kinda girl. I have been racking my brain trying to find a perfect dog food for each of them – especially since once Hutch (chihuahua) is done his diet he’ll need to be on a food he enjoys and is good for him.
I’ve been looking at the grain free or raw diets because of the tastes and the possibility of being able to put both dogs on one food. Most grain-free foods state they are suitable for all life stages. However, I’ve been getting mixed information on whether or not its a good idea for my dogs. One being a small dog, older, lazy, with past liver elevations and the other being a large dog that is still “growing”, also rather lazy. I’m wondering if there is ANYONE out there who has been or is in the same situation as myself and has any information you can give me on this. Thank you all for your help. 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

You can add fruits and veggies if you want – but you don’t have to. If you do, make sure the veggies are cooked and pureed and the fruit is mashed or pureed. Cooking and pureeing helps to break down the cellulose making it easier for the dog to digest as dogs don’t produce cellulase (the enzymes necessary to breakdown cellulose).

Don’t add only organ meat – I suggested hearts and gizzards because they are considered muscle meat and are cheap. Organ meat would be liver, kidneys, spleen, lungs, etc. The only organ meat you’ll probably be able to find at a grocery store would be liver. Liver is fine to feed but feed it in moderation – it’s very nutrient dense and should account for no more than 5% of the diet. You could certainly buy ground meats, whole roasts and such and dice them (although these cuts are a bit more expensive). You could also supplement with a meal of raw meaty bones a few times a week if you aren’t opposed to feeding bones (pork necks, chicken leg quarters, turkey necks, etc.) – RMB’s will provide dental benefits as well.

[kcarter137]

I’m just unsure of what raw food to supplement with if I go that route. I know my grocery stores do have a good selection of organ meats. Do I just randomly select a few to use. What about fruits and veggies, should I add some too.

[Anonymous]

I’m sorry your poor pack had to go through this. Don’t let the vet throw a guilt trip on you. You only tried to do what’s best for your dogs. Some dogs thrive on a raw diet and some don’t .]], I hope you can find a good alternative food.

[puppylove]

I’ve been using Nusentia’s probiotics and enzymes for a while now and they are top notch… excellent, really helped with all the tummy problems and more. Considering their raw grain free dehydrated food, which looks great but not many reviews for some reason. Right now we feed OC Raw Dog.

[Anonymous]

Quality products and a knowledgable staff are why I shop where I do. I drive past several Pet—- whatever stores to get there. You should carry what’s not availlable at the larger stores such as a good selection of raw products. You won’t be able to beat them in pricing so products and service is what you’ll need to emphasize. Of course you’ll need a customer base that can afford what you offer, as in real estste, location will be very important. I hope it works out for you.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Ooh I would love to own my only pet food store. 🙂

What would be important to me is a wide variety of high quality foods and an educated staff. I’d want selection of all types of food – raw, freeze-dried, dehydrated, kibble, canned. I’d also want an extensive natural supplement section.

[Hound Dog Mom]

If you’re on a budget and are just using raw to supplement a balanced kibble it’d be much cheaper to just add fresh meat at a rate of 20% or less of the total meal. Freeze-dried foods are very expensive. My grocery store almost always has beef heart, beef liver, chicken hearts, chicken gizzards and chicken livers – all of these items are very reasonably priced and could boost the protein of the kibble and provide your dogs with some of the benefits of a raw diet without the hefty price tag. If freeze-dried is the route you want to go and are open to switching foods – all of Nature’s Variety’s foods are coated in freeze-dried raw and they have a new food called “Raw Boost” with chunks of freeze-dried raw, Great Life is coated in freeze-dried raw and Wysong has two kibbles (Optimal Performance and Nurture) that contain chunks of freeze-dried raw. It may be cheaper to buy a kibble with the freeze-dried raw already incorporated rather than supplementing separately.

[pugmomsandy]

You can supplement their diet with the freeze dried raw food but usually it is alot more expensive per pound unless you can also get that wholesale.

[kcarter137]

I am new to this site and find it so thankful that I found it. Hopefully I won’t sound crazy but here it goes. I have had a really hard time finding food that work for my dogs. Everytime I think I have found a food it or they seem to have problems. They were all on California Natual or Innova and doing great until I changed them in October due to news that P&G bought them.

I have four dogs. Here is the breakdown:
13 year old golden female. Years ago the vet reccomended their Iams fish and potato diet which worked fine but due to budget reasons we switched her to California Natural Herring and Sweet Potato. She did wonderful for many years on that. We tried Taste of the Wild’s fish formula and immeditetly she started itching. Now she is on Tuscan Natural Lamb Formula. She is doing fine with her allergies on it (aka no itching) but after reading reviews I feel like I am feeding her an imcomplete food.
5 year old golden (no problem). Also eating Tuscan Natual Lamb Formula.
2 year old great dane mix (crazy sensitive GI tract). Eating Tuscan Natural Turkey and Chicken.
1 year old 13 lb mix (has major skin issues). She’s eating Orijen Adult – so far the only food that hasn’t triggered her demodex.

Here is the real question. Supplementing their diets with a freeze-dried raw food make since or should I switch their kibble? I am on a budget – but I can get Tuscan Natual at wholesale price which is about $35 a bag. I feed about 11 cups of food daily between all the dogs.

• This topic was modified 12 years, 11 months ago by kcarter137.

[Anonymous]

We have two shelter dogs: Bennie, some kind of border/bernese mix, 3 years old, adopted 1.5 years ago; and Fidget, a female doberman(?), 1 year old, adopted 6 months ago.

I have a husband who, if the dog doesn’t finish his bowl of kibble, dresses up the kibble with whatever he can find in the refrigerator — teaching the dog, of course that, if he holds out, he’ll get goodies on his food. When the husband is away on business, I put down a bowl of kibble with nothing else, and the dog finishes his plate.

Bennie kind of liked Purina One Beyond, but I know it’s not a great food and, if I remember right, we were at the point where it always had to be ‘dressed up.’

When we adopted Fidget, she had soft stool issues, and I read that Dobies have sensitive stomachs and should switch foods slowly. In addition, she has spay incontinence, so I am now trying to get her on a grain-free diet.

We’d like both dogs to eat the same food. We need the food to be at least 4 stars, if possible, and AFFORDABLE (10-12 cents an ounce, preferably). We prefer to feed just kibble, if possible. No raw. We’re lazy people, but want healthy dogs (and are trying to make that NOT a contradiction).

We’ve tried Victor and Dave’s grain free kibbles, so far, but Bennie won’t eat ’em. (Fidget, fortunately, will eat ANYTHING … and EVERYTHING.)

Any suggestions for a PARTICULARLY TASTY, grain-free, healthy, affordable kibble, that I could try with Bennie? We want something he’ll LOVE the taste of.

I have tried (when the husband was away, and Bennie seems to eat with fewer incentives) samples of Nutrisource and Hi-Tek but, if anyone has any suggestions for anything CHEAPER than that but still healthy, please let me know.

Thanks

[NectarMom]

All the Raw is spoken for locally. My crew is being switched back to Brothers Allergy since they have went back to the original ingredients. Hopefully we will not have any more issues. My shihtzu seems to be doing much better and my one chihuahua is also doing better and both finally had firm stools. Sometimes things do not workout and I am just grateful that my girls are recovering. Thanks for all of those concerned 🙂

[InkedMarie]

I dream of winning the lottery so I can open a dog food store. I’ve thought about what foods I’d bring in. I’d choose companies that haven’t had a recall. I’d have Fromm, Earthborn, Dr Tim’s for starters. They’re good foods, good price point. I’d have Annamaet as well. I’d probably have Acana and Orijen because some think higher price automatically means better foods. I’d have some dehydrated as well. I’m an Honest Kitchen fan so I’d have that as well as Grandma Lucy’s. I’d have Primal pre made raw, probably Stella and Cheweys. Canned too.
Educated staff is of utmost importance.

[InkedMarie]

Raw, canned and dehydrated is better for dogs. Dry food can leave dogs chronically dehydrated.

[patvl246]

I’ve been using a Raw Green Tripe and Chicken product from a company that recently went completely dehydrated. I think dehydrated products lose some of their nutrients in the process and are really no longer raw. My question is, does anyone have experience with the “Beef and Tripe” product from “Hare Today Gone Tomorrow” I can’t find reviews anywhere. Thanks

[DieselJunki]

Sometimes you can educate your vet. Bring in paperwork give list of sources ect. and hope they are open to learning something new that they probably didn’t teach them in school.
They could have been brain washed so to speak like many other people out there. Sometimes they just need a push in the right direction. I talked to my vet about feeding raw, at first she was not really all that happy with my decision but I explained myself and some of the little knowledge I knew of it. It helped let her know that I knew what I was doing (sort of haha) and had done my homework on it extensively before deciding to do it. I can’t say she is still a big fan of a raw diet but we have come to an understanding. I would still use her for ailments and shots and such.

Now there was one orthopedic vet that I actually got into a little bit of an argument with due to my kibble choice at that time. She to recommended all those cruddy brands. When I started talking to her about calcium levels due to him being a large breed dog it was like she was disgusted that I would even do such a thing. I began to explain myself and the research I had done and I could tell I wasn’t getting threw to her and she wasn’t understanding me. She kept pushing and telling me I wasn’t doing good for my dog and it would hurt him in later years. I would never use that place ever again due to her reaction.

All in all, don’t believe everything your vet tells you, do your own research before saying yes to things like unneeded shots and such.

[NectarMom]

Thank you Dieseljunki, I did indeed look for a Holistic Vet in my area and we unfortunately have none. I am kind of on my own on this because my Vets are looking at me telling me I told you so. They handed me a printed out copy of all of the issues in the worlds history dealt with Raw feeding issues. Some breeds do not do well on it and some have no issues what so ever. It is truly trial and error. 2 of mine have not had any problems so far and 2 of mine are quite miserable 🙁

[theBCnut]

If you want to do RMBs every day you need some thing like 30 lbs of raw meaty bones and 15 lbs of boneless meat.

[theBCnut]

From MPC, you can get whole ground animals. They will have the right amount of meat, organs, and bone. The tripe supermixes are good too. About every third day, I give raw meaty bones. Feed about 2/3 raw meaty bones and 1/3 meat to get the bone to meat ratio right. An example would be feed 1 lbs of turkey neck plus 1/2 lbs of turkey meat. I have heard you should try to keep the calcium/phosphorus balance correct daily, it’s the other stuff that you can balance over time.

[DieselJunki]

Oh wow. I really hope they get better quickly. So sorry you and your babies have to go threw this. Is it possible to find a holistic veterinarian around your area? I find them much more knowledgeable and less likely to throw you some pills that you really don’t need. Maybe they can answer what went wrong with the trying of the raw diet. It really is trial and error sometimes especially with dogs that might have other conditions. I know it was difficult to find a food that didn’t give my dog diarrhea or super soft poops until I switched to Honest Kitchen. It has been smooth sailing since then and I do plan to switch to raw sometime next month for sure. Good luck!

[DieselJunki]

So I am going to be switching to completely raw here shortly as I just bought a chest freezer (best investment ever). I was wondering if you all could help me out in figuring out what kind of muscle meat/organ meat/bone I would need to get for a whole month if I were to order it from a site such as MPC.

My dog Moose is around 7 months old and I usually feed him about 1.5 cups of honest kitchen 2 times a day. Right at the moment he is being boarded for a couple weeks and when I get him back I’ll double check his weight but I’d say he weighs 50lbs or so right now.

Now if I were to feed 3% of his body weight I would be feeding him 1.5lbs of food a day. If I were to say I needed a months worth of food (30 days) I would need 45lbs of food . That doesn’t really split it up between what I would need for organ meats, muscle meats, and bone. I am not so good with math and was hoping you guys could walk me through the process of figuring this all out! I would very much appreciate it so later on I can do the calculations myself.

From reading around it seems if your not feeding a whole prey model diet you should go with food consisting of 80% muscle meat, 10% bone, and 10% organ meat, 5% of which must be liver over the course of 1 week. But from my understanding you don’t have to feed it balanced everyday. You could feed straight muscle meat one day and then maybe a few turkey necks or something (I understand they are mostly bone) another and then give them some liver or other organ meats. So long as by the end of the week you met the 80/10/10 percentages.

[Honeybeesmom1]

Hi NectarMom, I’m new to raw feeding and get nervous at times. I too want to wish your sweet girls a speedy recovery.

[pugmomsandy]

If they’re already eating raw foods then they *should* be ok. Nectarmom had a bad experience with it just recently. Her girls have pancreatitis.

[Honeybeesmom1]

Thanks, Sandy! They eat NV raw which is 12% fat and Bravo! Chicken – but I can’t remember the fat % in it. Along with Fromms, Earthborn, Wellness and such.
I did try a chic. wing one time and got scared that I never tried it again. I was just so nervous they would choke. I am getting the bigger raw bones at pet store next month when I go out of town.
I will feel safer w/ those. But the feet – I will let them try this wk. end and see how that goes.

[pugmomsandy]

Yes you can freeze them. I put mine in small bags 3 to a bag. Be sure to cut claws off before feeding. I’d start with 1/2 a foot and see how they react over a couple of days. Do your dogs normally eat mod-high fat foods? Have you tried just a small chicken wing? You can give a couple times a week for teeth cleaning after you’ve decided that they can handle it. And it’s good for making chicken stock. Recipes at eatmedaily(dot)com search for chicken feet.

[Honeybeesmom1]

I saw chicken feet at my grocery store this morning! I was grossed out and excited at the same time. LOL I know I’ve read here they are rich in glucosamine & chondroition, high in fat and perfect for smaller dogs.
Mine are 5-13 lbs. Do I give a whole one or half? How often should I give and can I freeze them?
The package had about 15 in it. Thanks.

[NectarMom]

Thank you Sandy. If anyone is close to me and or could use some free Darwins and My Pet Carnivore Raw let me know before I toss it out? I still have a box that I can ship it to you if you want to pay the shipping but I might need to find a meat place that could dry ice pack it for me if that is possible. This is a lot of Raw that would go to waste so please contact me at Chiwawamom4@gmail.com if you want it. I just got 10lbs of duck and 10lbs of Bison from Darwin ‘s and I had maybe 10lbs left of turkey from Darwin’s. I have 2/ 5lb containers of ground young beef and 2/ 2lb containers of green tripe super mix, all from My Pet Carnivore. I also have a rib bone and 4/ marrow bones and these are all unopened like the Raw meat.

[pugmomsandy]

That is horrible! So sorry for your situation. I hope they have a speedy recovery.

[NectarMom]

Just picked up my shihtzu from the vet and she not only has Pancreatitis but also Salmonella poisoning. And now one of my other Chihuahuas has runny poop with blood in it so I will bet shes got Salmonella poisoning too. We have a whole freezer full of Raw and it looks like its all going to go to waste because I am not feeding it anymore. This is horrible that my sweet girls have to go through this. 🙁

• This reply was modified 12 years, 11 months ago by NectarMom.
• This reply was modified 12 years, 11 months ago by NectarMom.

[pugmomsandy]

You can try a small amount like a teaspoon of local raw honey daily, and/or stinging nettles with quercetin, and a supplement for the immune system, an allergy herbal, coconut oil, and even omega 3 oil (fish oil, krill, sardine, other fish) to help with environmental allergies.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I would go upright. I’ve got 2 upright and a chest and the chest freezer is just a pain, it’s harder to find things and get to things that are way on the bottom. I think organizing food is easier with the shelves in an upright. Right now I’ve got a few different things in all the freezers but I think when I get my next shipment I’m going to use one upright for commercial raw/Hare Today chubs, the other upright for poultry RMB’s/misc. meats and just use the chest freezer for pork necks because they take up so much space and if I know there’s only one thing in the chest freezer I won’t have to dig through it.

[theBCnut]

The upright that I’m looking at has 3 wire shelves that are removable and adjustable. The bottom one over the basket/drawer is the only one that looks strong enough for a really huge load. It also has 5 or 6 shelves in the door that are deep enough and tall enough for My Pet Carnivore’s 2 lbs containers, 4 to a shelf I think. It boobles my ming to think how much Hare Today would fit in there, or that I could have a whole shelf just for Darwin’s.

The reason I suddenly started seriously looking is that a friend mentioned that they need to clear their freezer of last years deer meat. They are going to send it my way and my freezer is full of the goat we just had done.

[pugmomsandy]

I’d stick with the Fromm’s. The vet is only taught those brands in school. Try finding a holistic vet. Mine actually sells raw foods in her clinic. http://www.ahvma.org/

This is from Dr Wysong:

“TRUTH 82: YOU CAN’T RELY ON EXPERTS

I took 8½ years of college credits learning to be a veterinary physician and surgeon. Only one course in nutrition was required. And that concentrated on food animals, not pets.

With that I was supposed to be a nutrition expert. After graduation clients came to me seeking my “expert” nutritional advice. This is the most profound thing we veterinarians graduate with: Feed a name brand, not a generic, and don’t imbalance the foods by feeding table scraps. Obviously, as you are learning, I don’t agree with me any longer. But at the time I was quite proud of myself for being able to dispense such wisdom.

It’s what my professors taught me to say. Their wisdom came from what they learned from brochures provided to veterinary schools by the pet food companies. The pet nutrition taught in veterinary schools is not a product of critical evaluation, but rather results from some manufacturers (with the deepest pockets) providing free products for the teaching hospi­tals along with polished marketing materials. Pet food companies are no dummies. Brainwashing infants (in this case, veterinary neophytes) is highly effective and will more than pay for itself when graduates move to prac­tice and recommend all they have come to know.

Medical schools make nutrition seem like a soft science, a branch of homemaking so to speak. Students and professors are much more enthralled by dissections, microscopes, surgery, syringes, and x-ray machines.

Besides, all those “name brand” pet food companies had all the details figured out. All that pets needed to do was eat their “100% complete and balanced” foods and nutrition could be put out of consideration as a factor in health.

Most other pet professionals – pet store clerks, breeders, groomers, boarders, etc.- know even less since no formal scientific training at all is required of them. But pet owners need to rely on the advice of someone, so they go to those who say they are experts. These “experts” don’t purposely try to mislead the public. What they have to say is just all they know, or it’s where the money is because they represent a particular brand.

A veterinarian has an excellent background in the sciences to use as a base to gain some true nutritional understanding. A few do this, but not many. If you find one, pay attention. Pet professionals, unless educated well in the sciences, have a more difficult task and are more easily bamboozled by pet food technomarketing or popular lore. Their lack of scientific depth also makes them vulnerable to reducing pet health and feeding to simplistic myths such as the benefits of a certain ingredi­ent or the horrors of another. Usually they happen to be selling the brand that has the special ingredient and is without the horrible one.

So there is no easy way for you. You cannot simply trust someone who puts themselves forth as an expert. For you to even know what is or is not good advice, you must engage your mind, learn a little, and put truth first. Ultimately, in matters of health for yourself or your pets, you are the most reliable expert.”

[weimlove]

HDM- that’s what I was thinking about doing. Maybe adding some fresh low fat neat every once in a while and maybe an rmb every once in a whole too. Thanks for being understanding, the people on my other forum would most likely chew me out because they hate kibble so much.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi weimlove –

Don’t feel like a failure, what works for one dog won’t always work for another. As far as kibble goes, Nature’s Variety Instinct is great – I used to feed it frequently before I switched to raw. If you keep him on kibble you could always top the kibble with small amounts of lowfat raw meats.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 11 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.