[pugmomsandy]

Either. If your dog likes and tolerates it raw, then feed it raw. If he needs to transition to raw then slightly cook it first. Some dogs when first starting raw don’t like the texture of raw (funny, I know) and they have to lightly sear the meat. Maybe they’re not used to cold food, not sure. And some pups need time to adjust to raw and might have some GI issues. Of course, give bones raw.

[dean ousterhout]

Thanks,

and then… raw or cooked?

[pugmomsandy]

I believe you should freeze game meats for 2 or 3 weeks before feeding them. Hopefully someone else will chime in.

[dean ousterhout]

Hello all… I have a source of fresh deer meat and wondered… should I feed some of it to my new large puppy, 14 weeks old? I love reading all about teh fantastic diets folks are doing for their dogs and I have to say… I don’t think I eat so well 🙂

I am sure I will look back in a few years and perhaps all this won’t be so confusing… but for now …. well.. it is quite overwhelming as to how little I understand.

The plan is to start with the 5 star dry and wet… and augment with quality “other” stuff, like leftovers of what we eat, etc. I got to thinking while reading about supplementing and all teh different raw diets… if I could use some of the venison I have access to for the puppy? I saw about the 20%… but should it be raw(uncooked, straight from the freezer, straight from the butcher) or cooked, like burgers from the grill? 🙂

Shucks, the venison is cheaper than than the canned food and the 5 star dried.

Thoughts??

[Sue’s Zoo]

I have a large breed puppy, Shiloh Shepherd. He’s 55 pounds at 4-1/2 months. With much help from information on this forum I’m feeding him half kibble (rotating between Wellness Core Puppy, Earthborn Holistic Coastal Catch, Halo Spot’s Stew Surf N Turf) and half raw (Primal and OCRraw) as well as a probiotic and supplement. He seems to be doing very well. I’m currently feeding him 5.5 cups of food per day but I’m going to increase it, at least temporarily, as he still seems hungry all the time. I’m also feeding him three times a day at this point.

My question–up to what age is it recommended to feed 3 times a day? I wonder if feeding him fewer, larger meals if he would be better satisfied.

Also, does anyone know if there’s a way to search the forums on this site? There’s a search box on the initial forum page but nothing for individual topics that I can see. They’re packed with such great information but I’m sure many questions are repeated and information missed because it’s so hard to find out which issues have already been addressed.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Sue's Zoo.

[Yorkieville]

Hi, Betsy.

I was just wondering, are you coming to the “Garage Sale” at the Expo Center on the 16th?
If so, you can find me with some friends at booths 17 & 18 in the main hall.

[Yorkieville]

It really is a small world! I have made friends all over the world, through forums.

I have a friend In Cardiff, Wales-we consider ourselves-sisters”Separated at birth”. 🙂

[DogFoodie]

How ’bout it!? I was chatting here with people from Bosnia this morning and now Valpo this evening. It really is a small world, isn’t it. : )

[Yorkieville]

Now, what are the odds that two people that live in Valparaiso, IN would meet here???

[DogFoodie]

Holy smokes. Me too. : )

[Yorkieville]

Hi, Betsy Greer!

Where in NW IN? I’m in Valparaiso.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Yorkieville,

I’m in NWI also. : )

[theBCnut]

In my state, it is illegal for a breeder to let a puppy go home with health issues. Of course that doesn’t stop it from happening.

[Yorkieville]

Thanks-we need to find out if it is the food, before our Vet runs tests. Poor puppy is already going through so much. He came from a Show Breeder in S. IN and she promised us, after we made the trip down when he was 12 weeks old, that he would be seen by her Vet, before we came back down when he was closer to 17 weeks old.

Ha! He had yeast infections in both ears, Giardia, and worst of all, Lacrimal Gland Aplasia of his left eye.

I’ve always trusted AKC Show breeders. I’ve had 3 oh-so-beautiful girls over the past 32 years, each one from an AKC Show breeder and not one of my sweet girls came home with a single health issue.

[theBCnut]

That’s what I would do!!

[Yorkieville]

I researched the symptoms of a UTI, and he doesn’t have them. We are going to put him back on Stella & Chewy’s until his appt. with our Holistic Vet.

[theBCnut]

Well, it is possible that it is the food, but if he has a UTI then it is likely that it’s coincidence. It might be a good idea to get some cranberry powder, just in case.

[Yorkieville]

No, it’s not an anal gland problem. He smells bad all day long. My husband & I wondered the same thing, if he might have a UTI. He has an appt. with our Holistic Vet.

He pee’s very frequently & it has been over 14 years since we had a puppy.

We’ve had Yorkies for 32 years, but this is the 1st one, we’ve ever fed raw. I homecooked for my last two, when all the food recalls started, but I have MS now, and cannot stand long enough to cook for this little guy. (:

Funny-he didn’t smell bad when he was eating Stella & Chewy’s dehydrated raw, rehydrated.

[theBCnut]

So it isn’t an anal gland problem. Could it be a strong urine smell? Is the smell only first thing or is it all day? I wonder if he could have a UTI.

[Yorkieville]

No, not like rotten fish, just a bad odor, that he didn’t have before we put him on the Nature’s Variety raw. My husband built him a great playpen, 3′ x 6′, with a separate potty area.

When we open the French doors in the morning, the odor is awful! And he poop’s before we go to bed at night. So, there’s no poop on the potty pads.

[theBCnut]

Like rotten fish?

[Yorkieville]

No, he doesn’t feel greasy. Just smells terrible.

[theBCnut]

Does he feel greasy?

[theBCnut]

I don’t want to imply that I won’t suggest foods, but my dogs are doing best on foods that are in no way budget friendly, so I don’t have a lot of budget friendly foods that I am good with.

That being said, yes, feeding different kinds of food is better than feeding one kind. The more different variety, the better. Raw is best, but your dogs can get some of the benefits of raw by getting a little raw in their diets, a turkey, duck, or chicken neck each week or a can of sardines. Dehydrated foods are great but very expensive. I use them and freeze dried foods as treats. Homemade is great too, but you have to do it right or your dog will end up sick from not getting certain nutrients. Kibbles are actually the most processed dog food, but there are some great kibbles at a good price. I don’t think they are as inexpensive as Pure Balance, but they are better quality. I like NutriSource and Earthborn.

I hope someone else will post some more ideas for you. What I usually tell people is to print up the list of 4 and 5 star foods and take it with them to all the different place around that have dog food. Take notes about where you find what and for how much. When you are on a budget, but want better for your dog, you can try adding some of a better quality food to whatever your base kibble is, or adding fresh foods like eggs, yogurt, lean meats, etc.

[Yorkieville]

We started feeding our Yorkie puppy Nature’s Variety raw patties approx. 2 weeks ago, and now, he has a terrible body odor.

Anyone have any idea why?

[Nancy M]

I’ve been writing in about a now 7 week old mini-Aussie puppy being treated for Giardia AND Coccidia. He’s been on liquid forms of Albon and Panacur for 6 days now, with intermittent improvement, but for the most part, not improved much. Today we hope to have the vet change the Panacur to Metronitizole.

Since he’s been sick with all of this, he’s been on a homemade chicken/rice diet. At times when we’ve seen a hint of relief, we’ve tried adding in a tiny bit of the kibble his breeder had him on, which is Diamond small breed puppy (chicken & rice formula). He can’t stay on this homemade stuff for a whole lot longer. At some point, he’s got to get on regular food!

Whether it’s the Diamond food (I hate Diamond) or just the parasites still causing havoc, he continues or reverts back to very runny diarrhea again. Provided the vet will change to the Metronitizole today, we want to start back introducing regular food as soon as it’s even possible, but the big question is:

With the exception of raw or homemade, what do all of you feel is a good product to start with as far as a good kibble/wet diet, that may have the best results right now and provide a highly digestible, nutritional and the smoothest transition for this puppy?

PLEASE REPLY WITH SUGGESTIONS, ASAP!

[Jesika]

Hi all. I have two pit/lab mixes father and daughter, and a stray black lab mix I adopted, aged 4, 2 and just a month shy of 1 year. All three dogs have black in their tongues and I’ve been told this means they are all mixed with something other than pit or lab, but what either dad and daughter or stray is mixed with, I dunno. (daughter’s mom was a pit/wimeriner)

Anyway. So I have all three on a wellness plan and they’ve all seen the doctor for my over-worried mommy tendencies at least once a month for the last four months; I got the stray on a plan just yesterday and the docs are all impressed with her bloodwork/health/coat just like my other two.

I never had pets until my late twenties and so right off, I just followed what my then-bf did with his dog (he’d had animals for years), as far as feeding goes, which was to free feed dry kibble. While he would get the cheapest kind not caring to read the label, when I was gainfully employed I fed mine Natural Balance grain-free lamb, then had to change and for the last six months or so, they’ve all been eating the Pure Balance Chicken & Brown Rice from Walmart, as I thought $30ish for a 30 lb bag of what is supposed to be natural ingredients sounds like a good deal to me.

BUT!! I have been reading over on consumer affairs about all the dogs that’ve died eating Ol’ Roy products, sometimes the PB dry line included. My vet said try Purina One, but that has a lesser rating than Pure Balance according to this website last time I checked.

I’m trying to become more healthy in way of eating less chemicals and want to bring my dogs along, so I thought I was doing good with the PB over the Purina being that there were less questionable ingredients. But then I hear about “Well, what does the fish on the boat on its way to the processing plant get treated with?” and “Anything from China is bad for your dogs to be eating, nothing good comes outta there.” and “Dog food companies? It could be one processing plant stateside today and a different one in Taiwan tomorrow, as far as manufacturers are concerned. Both foods are still going into a bag that looks and is priced the same, and thus makes the manufacturers their profit.”

All that said… My FIRST goal, if it can be something I can afford money/time wise to do, is to simply transition my dogs from Pure Balance to homemade food. SECOND, if I cannot do that, is to find two or three trusted brands that will be healthy-as-possible without killing my pocket — I might be living off of just disability soon, but I need my dogs alive as part of my healing process should I ever hope to have “a real job” again soon.

So…let the comment flying begin please! Do you have any cheaper-than-raw-steak-all-the-time recommendations for a basic homemade diet I can start with immediately until I can build from there? Or do you have anything other than Pure Balance that you can recommend based on price-point and natural ingredients, not to mention a GOOD reputation from the brand/manufacturer??

I am very very lost, and have much to stress about already…what I’m feeding my dogs and it’s potential long-term-and-hidden side effects is not another thing I need. It seems that from what I can tell this community of dog people LOVE their pets and share advice, so please please, share!! And THANK YOU THANK YOU in advance.

Signed,
Jesika and her three…Toby, Rhi and Midnight.

P.S. What about dehydrated foods? I just saw these at my local Sprouts Market and wonder — could this, though a little more pricey than what I buy now, be a happy medium between having to worry about manufacturer defect killing my dog and my having to cook them a meal every day, all while getting the nutrition they need? Hmmm…

[Yorkieville]

The Canine Caviar is available to me, but I would have to drive 40 minutes to get it. My puppy loves the Stella & Chewy’s. And it is only a 15 minute drive into town to get it.
I liked the fact that they have a grain free formula.

He loves the Nature’s Variety raw patties, too, but unless I warm them, lightly, he vomits.
And his urine smells horrendous! (He uses potty pads, it is too cold in NW IN to take him outside & I have MS, so walking up & down our deck stairs is not feasible for me.)

[Mom2Cavs]

I used to feed Canine Caviar, and liked it a lot for my dogs at the time. I haven’t fed it since they have their new grain free formulas due to it not being available local. I could order it, but just haven’t. Anyway, I just don’t see how, if it’s an extruded kibble, it can be considered a raw product. Stella & Chewy’s is awesome, though. I think you could use the CC if you want, as I believe it is a good product but I just don’t know if I’d consider it a raw product….?

[Yorkieville]

Thank you, Mom2Cavs.

On their web-site, they claim they are a dehydrated raw food. I have a 5 month old Yorkie puppy, and currently feed Nature’s Variety raw, and when we take him to friends or family for a visit, we bring Stella & Chewy’s dehydrated raw patties, and I put warm water on them.

I had wondered if I could do the same with the Canine Caviar.

[Mom2Cavs]

Well….I say no. Anything with kibble in its name is not a true raw food. It may be less processed than other kibbles, but it’s still a somewhat processed food. I’m sure HDM or others will comment soon.

[Yorkieville]

Is Canine Caviar dehydrated raw kibble, a true raw food?

[theBCnut]

My thought was that your vet should be able to diagnose pano, so if he thought it was pano, I would listen. All Acana formulas are too high in calcium and while I love raw goats milk, I’m not sure if it helps with the calcium equation. Pick a food from this list.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?srcid=0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk&pid=explorer&efh=false&a=v
This is Hound Dog Mom’s list of foods that have the correct calcium levels for large breed growth. Earthborn Holistic Coastal Catch is on the list and might be comparable.

[Monica]

Ok, so I’ve been reading through the posts and am in need of some advise. I’m very concerned about what I am feeding my pup. He is a 6 month old Alaskan Malamute. We had some digestive issues which has subsided since feeding Acana Pacifica. He gets 2.5 cups a day. I also add 2 oz. raw goats milk for pro/prebiotics daily. After reading this, I’m concerned about protein and calcium ratios. Protein is 33%. Calcium/phosphorous ratio is 1.5 to 1.3. Is this a good diet? He recently developed a limp and vet stated possible pano, hence the diet concern. But I’m not convinced it is pano. Couple weeks before limp he really fell and tweaked leg. Any thoughts?

[BijouMama05]

Rahat – These treats are not strips, but are small chunks (for lack of a better word) of freeze dried chicken breast ranging in size from only barely larger than a crumble to around 2 inches in length. The treats you are talking about sound more like the jerky type treats, which quite frankly with all the recalls I wouldn’t suggest anyone feed to their pets regardless of where they are made, what brand they are, or what ingredients they are made from (just to be safe). Anyway, the Full Moon Freeze Dried Chicken Treats contain only two ingredients: Chicken & Rosemary Extract. The amount suggested for a dog the size of a toy poodle (according to the package directions) is 1/2 a piece per day. (This is because rosemary extract is irritating to the digestive tracts of animals when consumed in large amounts, so dosage must be restricted to prevent vomiting & diarrhea!). So, this treat would NOT be suitable to feed as a meal replacement for a toy or teacup breed (or any breed for that matter.) As a matter of fact, I wouldn’t suggest that any pet owner feed commercial treats as a replacement to any meal, when there are so many other safer & much more nutritious things you can give them (raw carrots, pumpkin, apples, boiled chicken, green beans, etc.).

[DogManDan]

alright cool thanks on that pugs, im trying to make some switches between homemade cooked food and raw. thinking it would be good for them to make their stomach resilient to any food 🙂

[DogManDan]

oh nice some recipes. guys im in need of advice here, as i have started feeding raw since i read on this. I have 2 roughly 15lb or 6.5kg westies and i need some menus for them as i have limited supplies here and on a budget. the ingredients i have here and are very common to us are chicken, pork and fish. which part of the chicken should i feed and on the fish that would give them a good diet and also how do i mix this up for the next 7 days.

[Melissaandcrew]

I rotate through most 4-5 star foods for the dry. Currently they are eating NV limitd ingredient Duck-simply due to the lower fat content that my schnauzers can eat. I also now give everyone 50 percent of their diet in homemade raw. We also rotate 5 star canned foods and dehydrated Grandma Lucy’s(almost 600 cals per cup!)

My boys WILL loose weight on all grain free, no matter how high the calories for some reason. I account for that with the Abady, and by adding higher carbs to their portion of the raw diet. This seems to work wonders. I add things like sweet potato their bowls every other day when they are not getting the Abady.

[Molzy]

My cat has done GREAT on Natures Variety raw medallions. He had his first UTI two years ago, and has only had one since then (when we moved -I think it was triggered by the stress). I add a little water to his raw and mush it up.

Otherwise, I’d suggest a grain free canned, but still add some water to it. You want to really increase the water intake, as Patty said. I also add a scoop of the NaturVet cranberry powder onc or twice a week, not sure if it helps or not. A lot of the dog food brands that are good also make good cat foods. I keep a variety of cans on hand for days when the raw isn’t thawed enough or if I run out (I live an hour from the nearest place I can buy the commercial raw). Right now I have Wellness and Lotus in the cabinet.

If I weren’t doing the raw, I’d also consider the Honest Kitchen dehydrated diets, with lots of water added. I just bought a sample of each of them to try, but my cat isn’t too picky. I’ve found that raw is cheaper than the good canned food. I can feed my guy for about $30 a month, and could do it cheaper but I pay for the convenience of the medallions over cutting up the chubs myself.

If your cat has never had wet food, it can be difficult to transition. I had no issues with my cat, he loves food too much.

Oh, I also bought a pet fountain to encourage him to drink more, and I think it has accomplished that goal.

Good luck, it is so hard to watch them go through those episodes!

[CJohnson]

I already order food from Petflow.com. Unfortunately, if I go with Instinct Raw frozen food, Petflow does not carry that. My husband just has to bring it home from the town he works in. Not a big deal.

[pugmomsandy]

Tip #5 tells you how you can make your own jerky strips. You can also make them in a dehydrator. Petflow has jerky treats for sale also sometimes. Last week Etta Says Duck jerky was on sale. My dogs also love the fish jerky (Rawsome Pets and The Honest Kitchen). Frankly I haven’t given my dogs any kind of chicken/duck jerky for over a year or two. Now I give them Vital Essentials freeze dried nibblets.

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/11/16/chicken-jerky-treat-casualties.aspx

[CJohnson]

Thanks – I took a look at the Raw Frozen menus. Those are much higher at 520 calories a cup! Now to hunt to see how much and where I can get it. Right now I get my food delivered thru Pet Flow.

[beaglemom]

Mom2Cavs – I completely understand. For 6 years I fed what the vet told me to feed and I vaccinated with what they told me to vaccinate. In addition – my vet likes to make up some story about how they like to give the 3-year rabies booster every 2 years “just to be safe.” Um, what?! After spending enough time here on DFA and other natural dog care sites I am so done with that crap – and now I feel like I spend more time educating the docs when I go in then they spend educating me… but I’m paying them. Go figure. The latest stunt they pulled was with my older boy that I knew had had a vaccine reaction in the past but didn’t know to which one (because his previous owners were… not good). They took him back to draw blood and when he was brought back I was told “oh the doctor said to go ahead and give him an injection of Benedryl to get him started before the vaccines”. At the time I was annoyed but it didn’t really sink in til i saw my invoice — that injection cost $26! almost double the cost of the rabies vaccine itself! And they never even consulted me! I went home furious, called the office and was put on the phone with the smooth-talking doc who insisted that it was “in his best interest” and “that’s what we do with all dogs who have had a reaction”. I said – not with my dog! You do not inject him with *anything* without consulting me first and certainly not something for $26! They make out great! — now, even though they don’t know which vaccine caused his reaction, every TWO years (“to be safe”) they want me to pay ~15 for the vaccine PLUS $26 for Benedryl. Needless to say, even though I had to push through to the office manager to get it, they did issue me a credit and noted my wishes in my dogs’ files. Sorry for the rant and thank you for reading 🙂 It’s just live and learn I guess… I regret the 6 years I spent not knowing any better, like you, but now we DO know and we aren’t getting pushed around any longer. I’m glad you were able to switch to a vet you can trust — I’m having a lot of trouble finding a holistic vet around me.

Marie – I know, I used to be one of those people (see above!). That’s interesting that your one dog made it to 10 with nothing. The rabies is unfortunate though 🙁

[pugmomsandy]

Are you asking for non-fish oils or asking for other fish-variety oils other than generic “fish” – as in Krill oil, Salmon oil, Sardine Oil, Anchovy oil. Some people used coconut oil, emu oil, and even a blend of plant oils with success as far as skin and coat like Udo’s Oil (plant) and Ultra Oil (plant with fish). I’m just guessing, but when he weans off of mom, you can start giving it. These oils are in other forms of food already like kibble and canned foods, etc, and if he weans to raw food then he would get it naturally from raw fish and other meat/fat. Mine get a little bit from fresh avocado meat and raw sardines and I have Nature’s Logic Sardine oil, Udo’s, krill, coconut and emu oils on hand. I haven’t used anything but krill/sardine oils and raw sardines and avocado and what’s in their commercial food on my guys and they are super soft and have no smell or dandruff and my black one is real shiny. He used to not be when he was a pup.

[pugmomsandy]

Yes, I give my dogs table scraps. And it does vary from “good” to “bad”! Because frankly, my dogs eat better than I do. Their pantry is full of 4-5 star foods and my pantry happens to be full of the equivalent of 1 star products, unless I’m making steak and veggies or fish and veggies! They get pizza crust and chinese take-out. They usually get a bite or two of what I’m eating. I also make their homemade raw but of course with appropriate “dog” ingredients (meat/bone/organs/oil/supplements). There is actually a Paleo cookbook for dogs! LOL! Tonight will be a meat & veggie dinner to share.

[Melissaandcrew]

I don’t feed tablescraps like the “old timers” would, lol. I feed high quality “human food” in addition to their kibble/raw/dehydrated/canned. The only time they would get table scraps would be if I had left over egg, pasta etc-in otherwords, no fat cuttings and the like. Anything that is good for us to eat, but left over is fair game in my house : )

[pacer1978]

Thank you everyone for the suggestions. They are very helpful. I actually just purchased Primal Freeze Dried Turkey and Sardine Formula for Dogs, so I’m not sure “raw” that is. I should get that shipment in tomorrow and looking forward to how it goes. However, I do have two concerns, so maybe someone can help with that.

If I do incorporate some raw…how do I ensure I’m not overfeeding? I have one dog, Lucy (30-40 lbs) that is considered a little…shall we say, “chunky”. I’m trying to get her weight down a little since she isn’t very tall. She is a bit overweight, so I cut back on the coconut oil and kibble I give her as well. I am also getting Fromm weight management and will try that with her, but I’m concerned if I incorporate kibble in addition to a bit of raw, then I’m feeding her too much. Also, I know eating raw food is disgusting and unhealthy for us humans…but, I am still a bit concerned giving it to them. How do they not get sick from it? I understand the whole “related to wolves thing” and they can break it down where we can’t, but since they have been domesticated for so long, could raw be bad for them in any way? I’d hate to try this and be like one case in the article I read where one lady’s dog got severely sick from it and had major issues.

[abby13]

Thanks pugmomsandy! I really appreciate that 🙂

[RescueDaneMom]

I feed Honest Kitchen and Primal raw frozen grinds. I’m looking at trying Darwin’s next. I currently give my dog eggs, cottage cheese, kefir, canned sardines or pink salmon (preferably in water with no salt added), and Tripett canned tripe to help with variety.

[Nancy M]

My daughter got a 6 week old mini-Aussie puppy, just 3 days ago, from a “breeder” who had just weaned this puppy, that day. The pup was starting to eat kibble (Diamond, small breed puppy formula), to which some supplement has been added to guard against coccidiosis.The puppy had received 3 days of wormings and then the first puppy shot on the day she got him.

Not an ideal or even recommended situation to begin with, but as it has gone, I now have the puppy for the next 4 days, while my daughter works as a nurse, because he wakes up every 2 hours with what has progressed from loose, semi-formed stools, to bloody, runny stools.
Looks and sounds like the supplement didn’t work! He is currently being fed the kibble, 3-4 times a day, last feeding around 8 or 9 p.m. He’s so small, he’s maybe eating a scant tablespoon each time, at most. Trying not to over feed him. Offering water frequently.

I will be taking him back into the vet as early as possible today (even though getting a clean bill of health/fecal the day she got him), as I’m quite sure coccidiosis is the culprit here……or it could be something with the food as well. Hopefully the vet can start an effective treatment immediately.

In the meantime, what can all/any of you suggest as a feeding routine and diet for this little fella. I’m not an advocate for any Diamond foods, or raw (especially right now) but I especially feel there is something that would be much easier on his very delicate system right now (besides mama’s milk, I know).

Please give recommendations as soon as you can, please! It would be much, much appreciated!

Thanks very much!