[Cyndi]

Hi everyone! Just back from the vet. She did do bloodwork and is sending it off to check her thyroid. Won’t know the results of that for a few days, BUT, as I expected, she thinks Bailey has a nutritional deficiency because of her raw diet. She encouraged me to atleast, if I wanted to keep her on raw, go with a premade raw like Bravo or Primal or something like that, so it’s already balanced.

I was going back and forth in my head the past few months and thinking I might switch her to a good 5 star kibble in the am and either raw of Freshpet or something for dinner. For the year and a half she’s been on raw, I have been wondering if I’m meeting all her nutritional needs. I know she eats better than most dogs, but I don’t want to risk her health in doing so.

So, until I find out different from the blood test, I’m going to assume it’s nutritional related and started shopping around for the best kibble and just do healthy toppers as well. Thanks for everyone’s help! I really appreciate it!

[Laura P]

Hi,
I’m wondering what the best source for raw meaty bones is? I called a butcher and they only have organs, and not so much in by products (pork necks, chicken necks, etc.). They recommended contacting a meat packer, but wanted to ask what others have done before I go that far. Thanks!

[DogFoodie]

Ensuring that you’re feeding a balanced homemade raw diet is critical. The commercial frozen that you’re feeding is balanced already.

Here are a couple of links that I’d suggest you take a look at to help you decide whether or not you want to pursue homemade raw:

http://dogaware.com/diet/homemade.html

/forums/topic/menus/

You could always consider some of the pre-mixes such as See Spot Live Longer or one of The Honest Kitchen’s base mixes. With a pre-mix as a base, you simply add your own fresh meat and in some cases, oil also.

Here’s some more conversation about using pre-mixes: /forums/topic/vitaminmineral-pre-mixes/

[ella]

I’ve had Ella on a raw diet, using Primal raw patties. The cost is pretty high, about $6/pound, so I supplement with raw meats (chicken pieces with bones, beef, pork, etc.) as well as cooked veggies, like squash, green beans etc.

It occurs to me that I should be able to skip the expensive raw patties and go entirely with human grade meat. Chicken legs are 77cents per pound, I can get scraps of high quality pork chops, both boneless and with bone in, for $1.47 per pound, beef livers are $2 per pound, beef ribs $2.47. So I can give her excellent meat, rather than the ground up, frozen patties.

I live on meat and veggies. IS there any reason a mutt can’t? We’re spending more on the dog to eat than we are on ourselves.

[Lilmonster]

Aww poor Bailey. Hope the vet visit goes well Cyndi!

I don’t have nearly as much to contribute as everyone else already has, but Lily was also shedding/itching a ton before I switched her to raw (that was part of why I took the plunge), and I’ve definitely noticed a decrease in her itching lately so my fingers are crossed that it was the kibble that was causing her issue. I know that doesn’t apply to your situation, but for what it’s worth I did give her a Benadryl at her vet’s suggestion (they told me to give her one 25 mg pill – she’s 40 lbs) when she itched til she bled and then wouldn’t leave the scab alone, and it stopped her itching immediately and lasted for the whole evening. If you do decide to give it, hopefully that will help relieve some of Bailey’s discomfort while you’re figuring out the root cause.

[Melissaandcrew]

Whole eggs-either raw, boiled or lightly boiled. Some of my crew vomits raw eggs, so I boil them.

[Melissaandcrew]

It would more depend on the color of the kibble. My crew has darker brown stool, but most of the foods we feed are a dark brown color, lol, and the raw seems to produce the same. If I recall from a boarder that ate that brand, its a lighter yellow/tan codlor, no?

[Zach M]

Do i add whole eggs, raw or cooked?

[Cyndi]

Yes my vet does know I feed raw, and does NOT agree with it. I haven’t been able to find another vet that does, and this vet that she goes to is AWESOME with her as well as everyone that works there. I really like the place, they just don’t agree with the feeding raw, but they do know.

I’ll keep you posted on what happens at the vet….

[losul]

Cyndi, I tend to err on the side of caution.

Since you are going to the vet, you could wait for results before making any drastic changes, or drawing any kind of conclusions.

Does your vet already know, you are a raw feeder?

[losul]

Hi Cyndi.

Read your post and sorry to hear about Bailey’s problems. This might be far-fetched, but I’m going to put it out there anyway.

After reading what you are feeding and reading others initial thoughts about thyroidism brought something to my mind. Hypothyroidism, is more often the case and Hyperthyroidism (high thyroid) is pretty rare in dogs. I’m not knowledgeable about thyroid problems, but after some research, I found indications that hyperthyroidism can cause hair loss just as can hypothyroidism.

Awhile back, Aimee (thnx Aimee) brought up a study in which certain dogs that were fed raw diets developed hyperthyroidism-high thyroxine levels (dietary hyperthyroidism). It turns out that these dogs were either eating tracheas and gullets or eating other meats that had the thyroid glands inadvertently ground up with them. Anyway that study much impacted me, and it would never have occurred to me if Aimee had not brought it up. At the time I was feeding MPC’s beef tripe supermix sometimes (it kind of sounds like you are using it, and as a staple?). Anyway, MPC’s ground beef tripe supermix has 10% trachea and gullet in it. I was concerned enough that I inquired to Paul about it a couple of times, wanting to make sure they were careful not to include the thyroid gland in the supermix. I wasn’t reassured that it didn’t have thyroid gland in it, so I quit feeding it. I still buy some things from MPC, but nothing with trachea or gullet, and not chicken products for other reasons. Just got a new order Friday, it even included goat gonads ( ouchee).

At first this study might sound like another raw feeding bash, but I see no real apparent conflicts of interest in it., it has happened with humans also, “Thyrotoxicosis factitia, as this is called in human medicine, has been reported in people eating hamburgers containing ground beef thyroid or eating excessive amount of sausages containing thyroid hormones (Malvinder and Sturge 2003, Conrey and other 2008, Hendriks and Looij 2010).”

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1748-5827.2011.01189.x/full

As I said, it might be far fetched, as it seems like other symptoms might be present if it were hyperthyroidism, maybe even weight loss and hyperactivity. But if you were to get her checked, and it would turn out to be HIGH thyroxine levels….. Also know that if it were dietary hyperthyroidism, it is easily reversable.

Cyndi, there is another possible problem I can see. Are you using the pre-mixes such as SSLL with a complete grind- meat, bones, organs and tripe? Those pre-mixes are really designed to use with muscle meats only- no bones or organs. Alot of folks would say that the MPC beef tripe supermix (if that’s what you are using) is (or should be if in right proportions) completely balanced by itself. I would say it should be very close to balanced, and shouldn’t ever have the full supplementation that you are adding with the pre-mixes, IMO. The pre-mixes add all the vitamins/minerals needed in absence of bone and organs. For just one thing an overabundance of calcium/phosphorus, if you are using bone in grinds with the pre-mixes. You aren’t using cod liver oil also, I hope? I think excessive calcium, especially along with excessive vitamin D, can be a cause of hypercalcemia. Parathyroid and thyroid glands attempt to regulate blood calcium/phosphorus.

Whatever it may be, I hope Bailey gets better very soon!

[Cyndi]

Wow! I thought I looked at the ingredients on all those before I bought them, but I guess not. Thanks Betsy! Bailey is/was about 53lbs. (might be a bit more now). She has me trained though, every time she comes in from outside she gets a small treat. Except, when I know she’s playing me and goes out, sits on the deck for a few and comes in and expects a treat. Then I tell her to get a life and go lay down, lol! She doesn’t like any raw veggies or anything, so I’m wondering what I could use for her in the mean time as a small treat when she comes in? & she will go thru an 8″ bully stick in about 45 minutes. They’re too expensive to buy a whole bunch. I do get them occasionally though, and she loves them.

I have also, I just thought of, been giving her Wellness Core grain free food in her kong a couple nights a week when I work my second job. I started using that not too long ago along with Pure Balance wet food. I use a half of one of those little “tubs” in her kong with the Wellness. Geez, maybe it’s a combination of all of that stuff.

My mind has been going nuts, ‘Maybe its this?’ ‘Maybe its that?’ Ugh!!

[DogFoodie]

Hey Cyndi,

I bought some of those Grandma Lucy treats once for my two, but didn’t end up finishing the little bag. The ingredients aren’t great with the first ingredient being wheat.

Here are the ingredients: Organic Wheat Flour, Organic Dehydrated Cane Juice, Organic Sunflower and/or Organic Canola Oil and/or Organic Palm Oil, Organic Cane Syrup, Organic Rice Starch, Organic Blueberry Flavor, Organic Vanilla Extract, Soy Lecithin.

Maybe it’s a wheat allergy?

Here are the Newman’s Own Chicken ingredients: Chicken:

Organic Barley Flour, Ground Chicken, Cane Molasses, Organic Carrots, Organic Apples, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Lecithin), Rolled Oats, Rosemary Extract.

And here are the NV Prairie bacon & apple while I’m at it:
Oatmeal
Barley
Tapioca
Bacon
Apples
Turkey Meal
Canola Oil
Montmorillonite Clay
Ground Flaxseed
Natural Flavor
Mixed Tocopherols (preservative)
Citric Acid (preservative)
Rosemary Extract

I’d also think, cut out the treats altogether and see what happens also. Baileys pretty small isn’t she? I was initially thinking a chicken neck or some other raw goodie might be a good treat when you want to give her something, but I know you don’t want to give her too many calories, especially if she’s gained a bit… or maybe a bully stick. Anymore, my two will make a couple of bully sticks last all week. I occasionally use the Prairie biscuits, but more often use the Instinct biscuits. Right now with Sam particularly, I’ve been using the NVI LID biscuits. He loves ’em.

[InkedMarie]

I have not had allergy testing done & my “problem dog” had recurrent ear infections. My holistic vet suggested my own raw, not a pre made because a lot of them add fruits, veggies and other stuff which may have set him off. I buy ground from Hare Today & Reel Raw. There is also My Pet Carnivore. Something to think about.

[USA]

The dog you see in my avatar had localized demodectic mange when we first adopted him. He was 4 and a half months old. He had a ring of no hair around both eyes and he was itchy. This is pretty common in puppies as they transition from their mothers immunity and develop their own immune system. I transitioned him from the kibble he came with to the home prepared diet all of my dogs get. His immune system developed and held the mites in check without any drugs or medications.

All dogs have mites it’s just that a healthy immune system usually keeps them in check and no symptoms appear. It is possible that your dog will need some help in restoring balance but my first choice would be a home prepared diet of 75% meat (including about 10% organs) and 25% non-starchy vegetables and a little fruit. A good starting book to read on preparing a home made diet would be Steve Browns See Spot Live Longer. All recipes that do NOT contain bone can be lightly cooked or served raw. I would start with lightly cooked while his immune system develops and then if you like you can ease him onto a completely raw diet or continue with a lightly cooked one.

Good Luck with your new addition!!!

[USA]

Hi Cyndi

I’m sorry to hear that Bailey is having issues with her skin and coat.

When did you start using the Sentry Natural Defense topical? Could it be related to the scratching? Below are the ingredients for the Sentry topical. It is almost 15% phenols. Phenols can be very irritating to the skin. Personally I would not use it. The Mercola product is much gentler.

Peppermint Oil 3.00%
Cinnamon Oil 4.50% (phenol)
Lemongrass Oil 4.50%
Clove Oil 5.00% (phenol)
Thyme Oil 5.00% (phenol)
Other Ingredients – (Vanillin, Isopropyl Myristate) 78.00%

A low thyroid is NOT always accompanied by weight gain, lethargy or hair loss. Another possible symptom would be aggression. Maybe a little more touchy or in a bad mood etc.

Some blood tests include a basic thyroid level (T4). Call your Vet (the quack) and ask if a T4 was done and what the value was. It is also a good idea to request copies of all the blood tests that Bailey has done so you can spot any trends that a vet might overlook. YOU are the best advocate for your dog. Also try to get a copy of the blood test that Bailey had before the last one and check that T4 value. If a blood test shows a low or borderline low T4 or a downward trend then a complete thyroid panel should be done to confirm. The good news is thyroid medication is pretty safe and inexpensive.

What about treats? Have you added or changed any lately? Can you give us a breakdown on the treats Bailey gets please.

For a soothing, cooling and pH lowering skin rinse I would get a gallon of Aloe vera liquid and pour out 2 cups of liquid (16 oz) and replace with 8 oz of raw apple cider vinegar and 8 oz of witch hazel. This will help with any bacterial or fungal issues that either caused or were created by the scratching and it will also cool and soothe the skin.

Benadryl 1 mg per lb can help but antihistamines are always less effective in dogs because histamine is not as responsible for the symptoms as it is in humans. The antihistamine with the best track record in dogs is Tavist (clemastine).

Give Bailey a belly rub for me!!!

[nan p]

This is our 2nd Westie. The first lived 12 years. Spent thousands of $’s on skin problems for 9 yrs. When we finally went raw his skins cleared up.

So we started this puppy on raw from day one. She has mostly eaten Bravo Balance and regular bravo with Grandma Lucy’s. She gets tripe and her omega 3’s and digestive enzymes. She still had Demodectic Mange at 7 months. That cleared up with meds.

At 12 months her hair started thinning and she got itchy. Changed food this month to Stella and Chewy’s Duck, Duck Goose. She hasn’t had duck before so thought we’d give it a go. Vet referred us to dermatologist. We go this week. It looks like she is developing Malasseaia dermatitis. I’m very familiar with that from westie #1.

So have any of you had experience with the allergy skin scrape test and allergy shots if needed?

I am doing everything right from day one and this sweet puppy still has skin problems. I’m sure they would be worse if she weren’t already fed raw. Any one else experience this?

[jakes mom]

C4C, I started the conversation about the Fresh Pet cat food, 2 of mine like it and my 19yo hyperthyroid kitty is one of them. The other one that likes it is my 14yo girl who absolutely loves raw. The other 3 prefer basic canned pate. Give it a try, if nothing else, dog gets a new topper, right? Won’t go to waste. Mine like the roasted chicken best, there’s also a chick/beef combo. There’s another variety, called Vital or Vitality which didn’t go over well at my house. I’m talking about the kibble shaped food, have not tried the chub for the cats. I get it at Walmart, Petsmart, or local grocery store. Easy to find. BTW my youngest is 12!
Bobby dog, thanks for the tips about coconut oil, it’s going over very well! Jake loves it of course, and some of the cats will eat it. Dustin (19yo) begs for it. Every little calorie helps with that old guy! lol

[Ryoko M]

I think your homemade dog food is amazing.
About Your dog’s bald spot is not because of food.
Due to some kind of viruses or something.
So… Why don’t you try “cooked ” food not raw sometimes?
When your dogs power of resistance is low,your dog will delighted by warm food 🙂
Good luck!!

[Barbara O]

Ok….maybe trying to do too much….Also….how often are you bathing the dog? This can cause dryness…If it were me, I’d try using the frozen, balanced food, either Nature’s Variety Instinct raw food or balanced raw, frozen Primal….Give the dog time to heal…The problem may just be too many different foods…give the animal time to heel. Sometimes we try too hard to help our animals….as a result we overdo what we feed…Make a decision to use one of the balanced frozen foods and stick to it for several weeks…use just one oil….salmon oil, which is the best for pets…then take a look at whether there is some progress or not…make changes slowly…

[Barbara O]

It seems this year is really a problem. More and more dogs are having, itching, loss of hair, even dry hair. In our part of the southwest, we have dry weather whereas in Texas, my grandson has hot, humid weather…seems the summer is the problem…So…is your raw diet one that you haven’t mixed yourself or is it from something like Raw Instinct or Primal? There is a difference…. Sometimes just waiting and using the least amoount of balanced food can make a difference. I’ll go back and try to find the complete raw diet you’re using…

[Barbara O]

JENNIFER….Who did the testing? What was the testing called? I’m skeptical….you might try to put the dog on a raw diet temporarily…Natural Instinct has a frozen raw food that is balanced…also Primal is wonderful…It is frozen, raw, balanced food. You can look at the different raw meats….Some foods are very hot while others are very cool. My friend has a dog who has all sorts of problems…It has a disease that means the dog can only eat certain foods. She went to the Primal Duck and the dog is doing better than it ever has…She uses an expensive kibble that is human grade and then she uses the Primal…it seems to do the trick…It’s hard to eat a raw diet and have it balanced so if you can, try feeding the raw balanced diet…It might do the trick.

[Cyndi]

Thanks Barbara O. In my second post, I wrote what I feed her. She is on a raw diet and she gets a few raw eggs per week, as well as tinned sardines a few times a week. I also give her coconut oil and extra virgin olive oil when she get the Dr. Harvey’s Veg 2 bowl occasionally.

[Barbara O]

How much quality oil is the dog getting? Most dog foods have to limit the amount of fat they put in dog foods due to danger of rancidity. My grandson’s lab began doing the same thing. They took her to the vet and she was treated for allergies. I sent them some salmon oil and recommended they add a whole raw egg to the diet. She has cleared except for one small spot. I volunteer for Great Dane rescue and we have been having the same problems with the Danes…dandruff and itching. I began feeding the one I have just adopted the salmon oil and a raw egg at both feedings. He is slicking off, the itching has all but subsided and his coat is becoming shiny. He has been on the egg for over a month and the salmon oil was started last week. Please don’t be afraid to feed the eggs. Several years ago I had several orphaned puppies that were brought to me. I lived close to a vet school and was taken courses there…I talked to one of my professors and he recommended I mix a concoction to feed the puppies…this was whole egg, canned evaporated milk and raw hamburger meat. I also added baby vitamin drops. The pups grew, were shiny and had no health problems…
Sometimes keeping the diet simple is the best. Our dogs are canines…carnivores…they aren’t meant to eat a diet of grains and too much vegetables…
I own a genet and he eats Primal frozen raw…It has some ground veggies in it…I’ve been doing rescue of one sort or another for years…dogs, cats, wild animals…almost all have been carnivores….A very old vet told me one time to feed an animal as close to his native diet as possible…this eliminates many digestive problems. So…I feed grain free food…I have to keep the feeding pans around that slow down the eating process for many of the Danes I get…they have been half starved and abused…they eat so fast food can come back up…Amazon has some wonderful stainless steel ones.

Always feed the dry food wet…not mushy….just wet. Have you ever tried to gobble down a sandwich too fast? It sticks in the throat…This happens to dogs…puppies and grown dogs need moist food…In the wild they would never eat totally dry feed…You can add a small amount of raw veggies to the dry food. My doesn’t like the veggies but the other Danes I’ve rescued love them…One ate broccoli and cauliflower as a treat…Also..someone mentioned gas….eating and gulp air causes gas…

[DogFoodie]

I think your plan sounds like a good one. There would be no reason at all not to be able to use the ground turkey from Costco or the grocery store. I think when we keep things simple and the budget isn’t a stretch, we’re more likely to be successful in keeping up with it going forward.

Have you ever looked at the MPC site? You might find recreational and raw meaty treats you like for both pups and kitties. ; ) But, yes, I also agree that it would be much more costly.

[Cyndi]

Thanks for the reply Betsy & C4C. Betsy, why did you send the Mercola stuff back? I wondered if maybe she could be allergic to something in that, but I used it last year too and Bailey was fine. The only thing I started her on recently was the garlic pills, and she was itching and shedding real bad before I started those. The premixes and stuff I’ve been using since she’s been on raw, so I don’t think it’s any of those.

I never thought it could be health related. I think I might have to get her to the vet and have that checked. I did just have blood work done on her not too long ago (when I went to see that quack “vet”), would a thyroid issue have come up on bloodwork or is there a different way they check for that?

Thanks you guys!

[crazy4cats]

No, I never have. I have been taking baby steps with this feeding my dogs and cats better adventure. I use mostly Kibbles with various toppers so far. I have been feeding frozen raw nuggets as toppers for two meals a week though. This will be a bigger step towards home made for me if I do it. I was just hoping to buy a couple pounds of ground turkey at Costco once a week to mix with the dinner mix and add sardines also for their “Sardine Sunday” supper. Would that work once a week, or does the ground turkey I’d get at a grocers not be right?

[Cyndi]

Hi guys, I need some help. I believe Bailey has all of a sudden developed an intolerance to something she’s eating because she has been itching and shedding BAD for the past few months and now I’m noticing bald patches on her sides. 🙁 An intolerance to some food is the only cause I can think of as to why, so I think I should start an elimination diet but I don’t know how. She eats all different kinds of things, how would I go about this? She’s been on raw for about a year and a half now and the only thing new that I’ve given her recently has been goat. I don’t think it’s that though, because I think her shedding and itching started before I started giving her the goat.

Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[Susan]

Hi Vanessa, when I first rescued Patch he’d clear a room, it was awful…I put him on a dog probiotic & changed his food… have a look at the Wellpet Range, they make “Holistic Select” & “Wellness” kibbles & wet, the Holistic Select has a grainfree Adult & Puppy health Salmon Anchovy & Sardine meal or there’s Deboned Turkey & Lentils, maybe he cant handle the high protein so pick a kibble with a bit lower protein….but the Royal Canin is full of crap & probably the same price as a good quaility kibble, make sure you read the ingredients when picking a new kibble & pick a kibble that has different ingredients to the Blue Buffalo cause something is giving him bad gas which isnt good..also try some wet tin foods aswell, kibble is over proccessed & harder to digest, even some nice home cooked meals or raw.. he’s a link to the Holistic Select range
http://www.holisticselect.com/recipes.aspx?pet=dog#category5

[Darren S]

I have a Bullmastiff puppy on the way. Im looking for recommendations on puppy food? Don’t want to do a raw diet. Thank you.

[Liz W]

Hi Cindi… yes, you are correct… in VERY good hands!

Hi USA Dog Treats! Thanks again for the great advice.

Update:
Tried ordering the probiotic you recommended but shipping adds $10 to the cost so I’m going to print off the label and take it to my local health food shops and see if I can’t find similar for around $20, if I have no luck, I will then order from their on line site. Thanks for the recommendation.

As for the K9 Choice foods I will be receiving a print out of the nutritional values but from what I recall, they were all decent. I’m leaning to the ones that are a bit lower in fat. I found another raw source made here in Manitoba which may be a bit more in line with what I’m looking for and also a little less $… haven’t finished my trials on that yet.

I am worried that the Honest Kitchen combined with the Kibble was the tipping factor in him bloating. Can’t be sure but I don’t want to risk that again. I may have to wait until I get to the USA to find the Pre Mix (Steve Brown’s) that you referred to. I can’t find anything like that here in our Pet Stores in Manitoba. I will keep digging to see if I can find something similar. Traveling and trying to feed exclusively raw is going to be a major challenge both in terms of cost and finding it when I need it. Actually I’m finding feeding a 110lb dog raw exclusively is going to be a real challenge to the dog food budget… oh well. We may have to put off getting him a little buddy for a while anyway while we “recover” from all the expenses of this experience.

I haven’t been to the grocery store yet but sardines are on the top of the list to start adding for the boy. Haven’t returned to the capsules yet… adding back to “normal” very slowly.

I must say he is “crazy” about the green tripe!!! First thing he dives for in his bowl and since I’ve been feeding exclusively raw he is excited at every meal. Maybe he is just feeling a lot better but it is sure nice to see him snapping his jaws in excited anticipation of his meals! 🙂

Again,
Thanks for answering my plea for help… I was feeling very alone as a mommy of a GDV recovering dog and trying to feed raw. There is not a lot of info or advice out there under this subject.
Wishing you the very best from myself and Big Lou! 🙂

[Debra J H]

Thanks Dori. I am looking at the Honest Kitchen website and it looks like the changes have already been made except for the Keen Turkey. You can get several proteins without any grains and the others with grain seem to have oats, but not alfalfa. I am impressed with their sourcing of ingredients though and they were one of the few who answered tons of questions several of us had. I am glad that Nature’s Variety has found a different source of rabbit besides China. Hope they keep that up. We are currently feeding Stella & Chewy’s raw, but looking to just add some Honest Kitchen now and then and use that for travel.

[Debra J H]

If you really want top notch, Darwin’s raw food has some specialty diets now and has one for kidney issues. I do know this is a very serious condition. I too have Cavaliers and know of three Cavaliers who got protein losing enteropathy after eating tainted kibble. One was getting the Iams recalled and two others got it after being put on Science Diet ID.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by Debra J H.

[Cyndi]

You are doing great. As long as you keep the extra under 20% of the amount you feed, you are absolutely upgrading the dry. You could also use tinned sardines in water, raw or lightly cooked eggs, plain yogurt or kefir. The meat you add doesn’t even need to be cooked if you don’t want to. I’m sure your dogs are loving the fresh toppers!

[InkedMarie]

I have their stuff & it does seem a little fattier. I wanted to say that Hare Today doesn’t list their GA but I wouldn’t expect it to as it’s ground meat, not pre made raw. If I buy ground beef at the store, it says the fat unless I buy ground Chuck, that doesn’t say. If I buy at the local farm, it doesn’t say.

[RescueDaneMom]

I got my order from Reel Raw on Friday last week and I’ve been feeding it since then. Max likes it and is eating it just fine. I am concerned about the fat content though. The bulk grinds of chicken, turkey, beef, and pork look really fatty to me. It looks like there is just as much white (fat and skin) as there is red (meat/organs). Has anyone else bought the bulk grinds (10lbs for 29.99) and what are your thoughts?

[Corinne M]

Hi Liz,
I just read your post – I’m so sorry, I know it is anxiety producing to find a lump on your dog!! Here’s what I know, hopefully it will make you feel better until you can get to the vet…I’ve had Golden Retrievers in the past who developed fatty tumors (lipomas) as they got older. That was back in the days before I was feeding homemade & raw. The vet would always say that its nothing to worry about, it was common for the breed and as long as it didn’t bother the dog leave it alone. Back then, that’s what I did – and I can honestly say that those dogs lived long happy lives & for the most part I don’t think the lipomas ever really bothered them and certainly didn’t interfere with their quality of life. Then about 4 years ago, I had 2 Golden Retriever puppies – and 1 of them developed a lump that was BIG. And he was young. My initial thought was, “well, he’s a Golden & they are prone to these things”. But it just felt really wrong to me in such a young dog – and sure enough, when the vet did a needle biopsy on him, the result was different, this time it was not fatty, but was blood filled – called a sarcoma. Turns out this dog had a really weak immune system, and the lump was right at the injection site where he had his latest vaccines. The good news is, we caught it early and it alerted me to a bigger issue – his immune system. That’s when I changed diet, vaccines, etc. When you go to the vet, you’ll know more – it may be just another fatty bump, but the location seems to indicate that maybe its related to the vaccine or the chip implant. His body may be responding to the foreign “stuff” that was injected, and the bump may resolve as his body recovers and assimilates it. But if it’s a reaction, that’s something to pay attention to – most dogs don’t get a reaction, so you may want to look into why yours did this time. Maybe it’s a fluke, or maybe there are ingredients in the vaccine that your dog doesn’t tolerate well. That was the case for my dog. But there’re some things that I’ve discovered along the way – first, not all dogs can tolerate the “one size fits all” vaccine protocol. And there are alternatives, such as titer testing, following a “minimal” protocol, and using only thimerosal-free vaccines when you do have to vaccine. I’ve had many friends tell me their vets “don’t do” titer testing or thimerosal-free… but there are labs that you can use, where you get the lab order from them, have your vet do the blood draw & have your vet send the blood to them for titer testing. It’s no different from what your vet already does – they are just shipping to your lab of choice instead of to their usual lab. Same thing with the vaccine – you order it and have it sent to your vet in advance. The other thing is, the reaction my dog had gave me a “heads-up” to have his immune system checked. There’s a great organization called Hemopet (www.hemopet.org) that did a comprehensive immune system analysis on my dog & the director, Dr. Jean Dodds did a personal review for no additional cost – she sent me a report that explained the results in great detail and provided me with a list of supplements to correct his immune deficiency. She talked with me by phone & email over the next couple months while I got my dog stabilized at no additional cost. It completely changed my dogs health and was money well spent!. As an aside, the immune testing order form doesn’t come up on their website so you’ll have to call or email and ask them how to order it. Again, your vet draws the blood and sends it to their lab or to Cornell University…I forget which, but the order form has the shipping instructions on it.
Bottom line – the fact that you caught it so early means you can deal with it and get to them bottom of it. Taking charge over it will go a long way toward alleviating the stress and anxiety you are feeling right now. I promise!
Best to you & your pup!

[Lilmonster]

Question about the pumpkin – I’ve been doing an approximately 50-50 beef pumpkin mix because I saw it suggested somewhere as a food elimination diet, but wondering if I continue to feed so much pumpkin if she’ll end up constipated from all the fiber? Currently it’s roughly 6 or 7 oz of pumpkin to 8 oz meat, twice a day. I’m thinking the answer to this is going to be “as long as her poops look fine then it’s ok” – someone correct me if I’m wrong please!

Actually, I feel kind of silly asking this but what exactly constitutes dog constipation? How many days of no poops would be considered abnormal? I’ve noticed Lily is already pooping MUCH less since we switched her to raw – we used to call her poop monster. I’m kind of amazed at the difference. So much unnecessary stuff in that kibble!

[Lilmonster]

Hound Dog Mom –

Thank you so so much, that info really helps! Also, if you have the time and feel inclined to do so, could you please take a quick look at my thread? If not, no worries at all, but I would love your input as all of the responses I’ve seen from you here have been so informative. Thanks again 🙂

/forums/topic/trying-to-make-a-plan-for-switching-to-raw-questions/

[Lilmonster]

Never mind about my first and second questions everyone, they’ve been resolved!

FYI to any other newbies out there feeling lost or thinking about buying one of the recommended raw books, Dr. Becker’s Real Food for Healthy Dogs & Cats just arrived in the mail today, and taking a quick flip through it I already feel so relieved. I was on the fence about buying it because I had already read Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet and still felt confused, so I was worried that getting another book with more information would just add to the overwhelmingness. Fortunately, it’s really well organized and gives menu plans that are easy to follow, as well as detailed information about essential and optimal vitamins and minerals. While Steve Brown’s book is also very informative, it wasn’t quite as straightforward, at least to me.

[USA]

Hi Liz and Mr Lou!

You have very good instincts and Mr Lou is lucky to have you! And of course you are lucky to have Mr Lou!

The frozen green tripe is an excellent source of digestive enzymes and should eliminate the need for adding digestive enzymes to Mr Lou’s diet. Because he received an antibiotic shot which kills the good as well as the bad bacteria I would add probiotics to help replenish his gut. I use this one from Vitacost and it looks like they deliver to Canada.

http://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-probiotic-15-35-35-billion-cfu-60-vegetarian-capsules-9

Start slowly. Half a capsule every other day added to his largest meal. If everything is Okay after 6 days you can go to 1 capsule a day sprinkled on his food. After a month you can reduce it to 1 capsule every other day if you’d like.

k9choicefoods looks like a good food. I couldn’t find the numbers for Protein and Fat but I like the way they raise their animals and their quality seems outstanding.

I would stay away from kibble for multiple reasons. It is a super processed food that is as far away from raw as you can get. The quality will NEVER come close to the raw food you are feeding Mr Lou and feeding a whole food in it’s natural form without any alterations or processing is the absolute best in my opinion.

The Honest Kitchen uses quality ingredients but their foods are too heavy in carbs for my liking. And with any food that has it’s moisture removed who knows exactly how long it takes to re-hydrate it 100% or if it is even possible to re-hydrate it 100%. I just wouldn’t take the chance if I were you. But if you do use a dry food use very little and re-hydrate at least for 24 hours.

The water you understand so just keep up the GOOD WORK and keep drinking while eating or after exercise to a bare minimum. There is mixed evidence on raised feeders but I tend to agree that if you use raised bowls it will allow more gulping or air so I don’t recommend them.

Sardines contain the fish oil you are looking for in a whole food form which is always better than a supplement. Mr Lou is a big boy so after starting really slow a 3 oz tin (packed in water) once or twice a week should be good. If Mr Lou doesn’t like sardines then 2 fish oil capsules daily should be fine.

For supplementing plain raw meat I would use Steve Brown’s dinner mix and not a dehydrated food like Preference by The Honest Kitchen (carbs and re-hydration again)

Here’s to a healthy and happy life for both Mr Lou and you (it rhymes)!!!!!!!

[FrenchieBourdeaux]

Hi,
I am new to the forum and I know this question my have been answered and if so I am sorry. I just recently got a Doug De Bordeaux mastiff and I also have French Bulldogs so I am struggling to figure out what the best food would be to feed I feed my Frenchies a Nature’s Logic which they love and do great on mixture of there raw and dry. Ludo the new boy the mastiff came from the breeders eating TOTW which I don’t like to much or trust. Well he loves the Logic and wont eat the large breed puppy food the horizon complete he wants to eat what the girls eat (Frenchies) and the girls want to it his food which they cant. So I was wondering which food I could feed them all with were they would all be happy is Nature;s Logic calcium levels to high for him and if so which one on the list would be good for both to eat the Frenchies have a lot of allergy issues so I get nerves switching but it is not working feeding two different foods. Is the Now Calcium levels to high? And if so which one on the list do you feel would be the best for both breeds. He is 10 Weeks my Frenchies are 1, 5, and 8 years old. And is there any supplements that I should have him on? Sorry for the book..lol.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Lilmonster –

Raw meaty bones have a balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio, it’s just really high. You can certainly try feeding boneless meat with the See Spot Liver Longer Dinner Mix in the morning and raw meaty bones in the evening – as long as your dog doesn’t get constipated it should be fine. You can also feed a little boneless meat along with the raw meaty bones or alternate between meals of raw meaty bones and something like tripe to lower the calcium to phosphorus ratio. I know my girls get constipated if they eat an entire meal of raw meaty bones so I usually throw in a handful of hearts or gizzards. Also, if you’re only feeding the dinner mix for one meal a day and feeding raw meaty bones for the other, I’d highly recommend using the guidelines for puppies (4 tbs. per pound of meat versus 2 tbs.) to ensure that your dog is getting all the nutrients he needs.

I use the Twinlab Daily One with iron. The AAFCO minimum for iron is 80 mg/kg and the maximum is 3,000 mg/kg. So with 10 mg. per capsule, the Twinlab Daily One with Iron poses no risk of overdosing the dog on iron and it provides extra insurance in the event that a meal is too low in iron (which is a distinct possibility if the dog isn’t getting much red meat and/or organ meat). There is little to no risk of overdosing on vitamins and minerals from whole food sources, especially fruits and vegetables. The amount of calcium in the Twinlab Daily One isn’t high enough to affect anything.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 5 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Lilmonster]

Hound Dog Mom –

Hi, after I read your above response I posted a question to you in a separate topic that I started with questions regarding switching my pup to raw, but realizing I probably should have just asked here since I’m not sure if you’ll see the other one. Copy & pasted below. Thanks!

– I know you can’t add the See Spot Live Longer dinner mix to bone-in meats, but am I also correct in assuming that if I begin adding RMBs in the PM and continue to feed boneless ground meat + See Spot Live Longer mix in the AM that it would be too much calcium? Ideally I’d like to continue using the SSLL simply because it’s the easiest way for me to not have to worry that her nutrition is unbalanced while I’m still learning to balance her meals myself. I did see the most recent topic mentioning CarnivoreRaw but that’s a bit out of my budget. **Hound Dog Mom, do you use the Twinlab Daily One with or without iron? Also, I noticed the Twinlab does have calcium in it, does that not matter because the amount is so low? If I choose to go the multivitamin route, can I then add other things like fruits and veggies and such without worrying about overloading on a specific vitamin/mineral or will I have to be careful with what I add?

[Karen D]

Hi everyone! My name is Karen and I have an almost 4 month old mini dachshund. I am brand new here and hope you can help me out!

He is eating Blue Buffalo with some cooked chicken breast now. I have 3 cats that have eaten raw for 5 years…2 years ago we moved them to Blueridge Beef. We have to keep him separated from them or he will race over there to gobble it up faster than you could believe LOL!

He starts in August and my question is how much should I feed him? He is almost 6 pounds now..projected to be 10-12 pounds according to what his parents weigh. I read 2.5% of that….so does that mean about 2.5 ounces per feeding (3x’s a day)?
Also, BRB only has 1 organ meat in it (liver). Do I need to add something else? This is the total break down of their puppy mix: ground beef, chicken, green tripe, beef heart, chicken bone and beef liver. I add a supplement to my cats’ food too (Kitty Bloom). Should I add the Dog Bloom to this?

Thanks in advance!!

[InkedMarie]

Lorenza: I can’t say for sure but I will tell you that I have a dog who had recurrent ear infections. I now think it was due more to environment, pollen, spring, etc than food. While talking to my holistic vet about going raw, she suggested no fruits or veggies. So, I feed ground raw that I get from Hare Today and Reel Raw.

[Kritterlady]

Love your well thought out questions Lilmonster! In my experience feeding raw to 2 older dogs and one 2 yr old I vary the diet so so as not to cause the problems you mention. As natural scavengers dog benefit from variation. So they eat a variety of fruit and veg in season, eggs when my hens produce well and quality meats with bones in. By feeding clean quality foods, and yes, on occasion quality dog food I have healthy active 11 yr old German shepherd and 12 yr old pit shepherd mix and 2 yr old Doberman. All alergies cleared up and they run the farm like puppies. Also since their food changes regularly there is no pickiness. I continue to read extensively and ask many questions and refine my efforts but the proof is in the vitality of my dogs.

[Lorenza S]

I have been giving our dog Lotus brand grain free kibble mixed with Merrick’s canned grain free for the last year with really no difference in the amount of eye gunk. It comes and it goes…. but in the last month I have been going over to Darwin’s natural selection raw also mixed in with Lotus kibble in place of the Merrick’s grain free canned food. Our dog now has gunk almost always and now has a little hot spot between his toes. This month has been a real change for the worse and I cannot tell if it’s due to the change over to Darwin’s Raw. It seems to be illogical that Darwin’s is the reason. Could it be just that it is summer and more humid and more pollen? Also, is Darwin’s worth all the expense and trouble? And is it better than Stella and Chewy’s frozen raw patties? A lot of questions here so I’m grateful for any answers that you can give me….

[Cyndi]

Awww, well I’m so glad I inadvertently helped! If I can handle feeding raw, anyone can, lol! I did the same as you and read a whole lot of the posts in raw feeding forum before I asked questions. Thank god for google, because that’s how I found this site. The people here gave me the courage to finally say ‘Ok, I’m gonna do this’, although it did take a while.

Just keep asking questions. Sometimes they may not get answers, and other times you get a ton of help. Just depends on who sees your question. Good luck to you and welcome to DFA. Like I was told a long time ago, “It will be ok, you’re here now”! (wish I could remember who said that to me, but they were right! 🙂

[oliiiv_gsd]

So i’ve been feeding raw for a little while now, and i’ve read that there should be no more than 50% protein from one meat source. I kind of understand why?? but not 100%… Anyone know exactly why it is advised against? Honestly just a curiosity