[Dori]

Lisa. What protein of the NV Instinct Raw did you use? You did get the Instinct correct? NV also makes a couple of other formulas but those contain grains.

How long did you feed Chewy the small bag that you had? How many meals? Are you feeding Chewy twice a day and how much at a time? Are you just eye balling it or are you measuring the food? Don’t forget that feeding raw the amount is less than kibble. Too much food per meal will also cause vomitting, diarrhea, digestive issues.

I can’t quite remember but I thought we were all thinking that he might be having an issue with chicken. If he was then I wouldn’t feed turkey or any poultry whatsoever. Initially I was feeding chicken free to Katie and couldn’t figure out why she was still sick even though I was being told that just cause she had issues with chicken didn’t mean it would be the same with other fowl or chicken fat, chicken flavor etc. Well, it turned out that once I removed all grains, soy and all fowl, the issue resolved itself within a couple of weeks or so.

[Janine v]

With Orijen my dogs had lot of tartar build up. Extremly.
Both chihuahua’s and cats.
Before with bad dry food, white clean teeth 🙁

In november I had one dog clean his teeth by the vet, but already, tartar build up 🙁

I clean his teeth daily now, and changed his food. Don’t want to do anasthesia again 🙁

My cats, can’t clean there teeth, they don’t allow it. Had 2 cats that needed there teeth cleaned by the vet. 🙁 Before I fed Orijen, White clean teeth.

Is there any good dry food, what helps clean there teeth? Because I really don’t like it when they need anasthesia. Raw is not an option, they don’t eat it or get horrible diarrea. 🙁

[Lisa C]

Hi sue…
I have put off commenting because I feel so defeated. Chewy still vomited on the NV raw, but I may have not given enough to him to test if it really worked. He only had a small bags worth. I don’t know how long he has to be on something to see if it really works. Lately he has been on a canned Nutro “limited ingredient” for a week and still vomits on it, but it’s to tide him over until we can get him into a 2nd vet (money is limited right now unfortunately) but we are planning to go within the next 1-2 weeks. All his poos have been normal, luckily. We tried Honest Kitchen Veal, the really expensive $60 box and he wouldn’t even go near it. Our original vet wants him back on RX, but I don’t see the point if it never helped. These are some results from his last bloodwork:

“the lipase, one of the two pancreatic enzymes, is slightly elevated so recommend feeding the prescription intestinal diet as already planned to help control any pancreatic inflammation that may occur with feeding other fat sources”

[Susan]

Hi Lisa How is Chewy going on his new food, NV Instanct raw, has the vomiting stop & is he pooing normal now??

[Heather D]

Hi, sorry me again. I have been onto the shop’s website and come across this food and wonder if this would be better than the Eukanuba. I have done the translation,

BREEDERS high end food for Large Breed Puppies.

Our breeders think is the only one with 100% ingredients fit for human consumption. It is a complete food for dogs 0-12 months old.

Most products are manufactured feed waste, what remains once have separated parts fit for human consumption. These ingredients have a lower quality.

Some feed ingredients, incorporate suitable for people, but Breeders is the only manufactured in Spain than it does on 100% of its composition. 100% premium ingredients . No features or use GM products.

“Breeders” is a brand sold exclusively at TiendAnimal, which offers a high-end feed at a very affordable price (up to half that of conventional brands). See for yourself our quality and you will be convinced.

Puppy food super premium quality at a super low price. This is because the direct sales allows us to avoid marketing costs, marketing and advertising that make up a large percentage of the feed costs of early brand names.

BREEDERS Cubs is a complete dry feed, in the form of extruded, balanced and very tasty dry kibble, made ​​from selected raw materials of high quality. Breeders is a food like no other approaches to what the animal would eat in your state natural.

It satisfies the needs of large breed puppies thanks to the extra size of your kibble as well as pregnant females or nursing. They think that a dog is puppy until it meets its first year of life , although in large breeds this time can be extended up to 6 months, even up to 2 years in giant breeds.

Key Benefits

Selected natural ingredients, origin certificate
High digestibility and energy efficient
Adequate protein and fat
Optimum calcium-phosphorus
High in DHA
Health skin and hair, thanks to the perfect balance of Omega 6 and Omega 3.
Promotes optimal growth, thanks to Natural chondroprotective

High digestibility. During the growth phase, the puppy’s digestive system is less developed than the adult dog. It is therefore important that the feed is especially easy to digest.

High in protein and fat. cub experiences a very rapid growth, stabilizing circa life. At that time multiplied 40 to 50 times their birth weight. To achieve this feat, you need a very rich in protein and easy energy to metabolize food.

DHA
DHA: docosahexaenoic acid
Optimal calcium-phosphorus ratio. Indispensable to form a healthy skeleton able to sustain the growing weight of the puppy.

High content of DHA. docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) is important in the formation of the nervous system, particularly the brain. The brain content of DHA is related to learning ability and intelligence level of newborns and infants. It has been suggested the need to supplement with DHA the mother during the gestational period, and even before this, to ensure the supply to the normal development of the fetal brain. Evidence related to the greater learning ability of offspring from mothers previously supplemented with DHA.

High in Omega 3. Adequate ratio of Omega 3 and 6 helps maintain a healthy coat, reduces skin irritation and enhances the development of immune function.

Breeders not stored in silos , but goes directly by packaging as production. Thus contamination by mites (causing many food allergies) and quality loss are avoided.

BREEDERS is an exclusive brand of Tiendanimal.

I Breeders Cubs 2

Features

Ingredients : Dehydrated chicken meat (35%), rice, chicken fat, corn, concentradp vegetable protein, hydrolyzed and dehydrated meat chicken, apple pulp, salmon oil, dried yeast, yucca extract, potassium chloride, chloride sodium.

Additives

Vitamin A 16,000 IU / KG
Vitamin D3 1600 IU / KG
Vitamin E (alpha tocopherol) 200mg/kg
Cu (copper sulfate pentahydrate) 23 mg / kg
Trace elements:

Fe (iron sulfate heptahydrate): 200 mg / Kg, I (potassium iodide): 1.5 mg / kg, Co (cobalt sulfate pentahydrate): 1 mg / kg, Mn (manganese sulfate monohydrate) 70 mg / kg, Zn (oxide Zinc): 225 mg / kg, Se (sodium selenite): 0.4 mg / kg

Preserved with EC additives (potassium sorbate). With natural antioxidants (citric acid, rosemary extract and natural tocopherols (source of vitamin E).

Guaranteed Analysis

Crude protein 30%
Crude fat 14%
Crude fiber 2.5%
Crude ash 9%
Calcium 1.2%
Phosphorus 0.8%
Moisture 10%
Glucosamine 600 mg / kg
Approx kibble: 1.5 cm x 1.5 cm x 0.8 cm.

Use

Serve dry food guided by the table of recommended daily allowance. It is better to split the corresponding ration in two servings a day. These amounts are only for guidance, so they must then meet the energy needs of the animal, guided by the maintenance of optimal body weight. Always leave fresh clean water available to the animal.

Recommended daily

45 kg (adult weight) 60 kg (adult weight) 70 kg (adult weight) 90 kg (adult weight) 100 kg (adult weight)
2 months (old puppy) 320 gr 410 gr 450 gr 510 gr 540 gr
3 months (old puppy) 420 gr 520 gr 590 gr 670 gr 720 gr
4 months (old puppy) 460 gr 570 gr 660 gr 740 gr 790 gr
5 months (old puppy) 550 gr 660 gr 780 gr 880 gr 960 gr
6 months (old puppy) 620 gr 750 gr 880 gr 995 gr 1080 gr
7 months (old puppy) 620 gr 750 gr 890 gr 1020 gr 1100 gr
8 months (old puppy) 610 gr 750 gr 890 gr 1020 gr 1100 gr
9 months (old puppy) 590 gr 740 gr 870 gr 1010 gr 1080 gr
10-11 months (old puppy) 580 gr 720 gr 860 gr 995 gr 1070 gr
12-13 months (old puppy) 580 gr 710 gr 840 gr 980 gr 1060 gr
14-17 months (old puppy) 580 gr 700 gr 820 gr 960 gr 1040 gr
18-23 Months (old puppy) 560 gr 690 gr 820 gr 950 gr 1030 gr
24 months (old puppy) 560 gr 690 gr 820 gr 940 gr 1030 gr

[Sharon Buchanan]

Desiree,

The values for BUN are different in raw fed dogs. While your dog’s BUN does seem high, his Creatinine is low normal. Most conventional vets aren’t aware of the different values – I had to share the correct values with two of the vets at the clinic I go to. Here is a great article that explains three values that will be different:
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/normal-blood-values-and-raw-fed-dogs/ At their site, they also have a series of free raw feeding videos that should help you keep him on track and you can search their articles for natural ways to address his BUN value.

Since he doesn’t have teeth, you can help supplement his calcium with whole raw eggs. Just crush the shell with the back of a spoon so that the shell is essentially little flat pieces, not totally pulverized. I would also try chicken backs and ribs. I would begin with cutting away the spine and just give him the soft smaller bones. Once his gums have toughened up a bit he might be able to gnaw the spine and neck in order to get his 10% bone.

A proper raw diet consists of 80% protein (heart is considered a protein, not an organ), 10% bone, 5% liver and 5% other organs – pancreas, spleen, testicles, kidneys… Except that you might be trying to feed a raw diet based on AAFCO guidelines for commercial food, I don’t know why you’re adding greens and veggies at this point. Are there other issues besides the elevated BUN? Have you been feeding greens and veggies for the entire six months? I would definitely add a digestive enzyme supplement to his diet, probiotics won’t hurt as well. Mercola makes supplements that I and many others have had good success with.

Dogs Naturally Magazine will be hosting their second weekend-long internet conference in the Fall. They have a Facebook page that, if you “Like”, will keep you up-to-date and let you know when you can sign up. I attended the first one at the end of January and will be signing up for this one as well. Additionally, you’ll then have access to a private group of like-minded owners, nutritionists and homeopaths who all respond to concerns just like yours with personal experience as well as professional opinion.

[Cyndi]

I don’t know about what calcium and protein levels you need to look for, hopefully someone else can answer that. If you can’t find any food from that list, then keep Max on the Eukanuba, and you can include fresh foods to add to it, like eggs, or tinned sardines (or fresh) in water not oil, or plain yogurt. There are alot of foods worse than Eukanuba, so you are doing ok. You could always use fresh meat or poultry, cooked or raw, to make his meals healthier as well.

& Just so you know, just about everyone that posts here is from a different time zone. We are all from different states, some from different countries. I live in Ohio, USA and it is currently 12:51pm here. There are some people from across the country and some from Australia, so it all depends what time you post, who’s on here at the time and who sees your post. The majority of us on here don’t “ignore” people. We are all friendly and enjoy helping people out when we can. 🙂

[Heather D]

Cyndi, what a lovely friendly reply, thank you. Yes I will keep him on the dry and cooked turkey, though the cooked turkey is receiving all his attention and the dry none haha.
I worry for him as he is from a large breed and this early feeding is of great importance.
We are going to the pet store tomorrow. I will take the list I have printed from here and see if any of it is available, though looking at their website none seems to be.
http://www.tiendanimal.es/?gclid=CO-g1t2F-r8CFU7MtAodqH0AVQ of course it is in Spanish but my computer translates for me.
They have very little in the way of tinned food.
The last time we went I did notice some very expensive, more than the 47euros, we pay fo the Eukanuba, and was drawn to it as it said free range chicken, wild salmon and free range eggs. I cannot remember whether it had any grain in as I wasn’t aware that grain was a problem.
If it is rice, is that ok?
As it is one hec of a journey to this pet store, we live way in the mountains, then I would like to buy there and then.
With this in mind should I look for high protein, low calcium lenels and low calories, this would help me maybe more than brand.
Thank you.

[USA]

Ladies,

I believe that the Sulfides in Garlic, Onions, Leeks, Chives, etc in ANY AMOUNT have an effect on the red blood cells of cats and dogs. I think that at a low exposure the effects are sub-clinical meaning there are no signs of toxicity. But I do believe that the red blood cells are affected at any level of consumption.

I know there is plenty of information out there to support both sides of this debate and I know that plenty of people use garlic for fleas and as a spice in their dog’s food.

I have a dog whose red blood cells are affected by any amount of garlic. She is a rare example of a dog that shows clinical signs of red blood cell damage at any level of consumption. I know she is VERY sensitive to the effects of garlic but her experience has led me down the path of believing that although most dogs are not as sensitive as her that ALL dogs red blood cells are affected by Sulfide ingestion.

So I have provided a couple of links. 1 agrees with me and 1 says that the toxicity of garlic is not affected by cooking.

Just my 2 cents.

http://www.lifewithdogs.tv/2012/06/the-dangers-of-onion-toxicity/

“The organosulfoxides (sulfurs) in onions, garlic, leeks and chives react with the cell membranes of the red blood cells of dogs, causing the cells to lyse (explode). Cats are even more sensitive to the lytic effects of allium (onion family) toxicosis than dogs.

It is a common myth that a small amount of onions or garlic is not harmful to dogs. In fact, many homemade dog treat recipes include garlic powder as a flavoring because dogs tend to love it so much. Dogs are more tolerant of garlic than onions, and small amounts of either often do not produce effects that are noticed.

However, I believe that any amount of garlic or onions is unacceptable, because it always causes damage on a cellular level, whether or not we notice the effects of the damage and label it “toxic.”

A small amount of garlic or onion ingestion will cause a small amount of subclinical hemolysis. That is, a small amount will cause a small amount of red blood cell explosion. Dogs need their red blood cells to oxygenate their brains and other important organs.

A moderate amount of garlic or onion ingestion will probably cause your pet to feel light headed and lethargic, which may go unnoticed.

A large amount of garlic or onion ingestion will cause clinical signs that are felt by the dog and noticed by the people. Signs may take several days to develop.”

Regarding cooking:

http://vetmedicine.about.com/od/toxicology/a/onion-toxicity.htm

“The chemicals found in cooked, raw or dehydrated onions begin reacting with a dog’s metabolism soon after consumption, preventing the red blood cells from carrying oxygen to the body. Within a few hours, the patient becomes lethargic and has trouble breathing. Other clinical signs may include dark-colored urine or a yellowing of the gums (called icterus). The patient may also vomit up the onions or other foods consumed from the trash.”

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Erin –

You aren’t going to see any dental benefit from feeding ground raw. If you’re interested in feeding raw meaty bones, the mechanical chewing action will aid in keeping the teeth cleaner to a certain degree. However, the only way to ensure optimal dental health is to actually brush your dogs teeth – this should be done at least three times a week.

Price will vary greatly and will depend on which protein source you feed, which cut you feed, quality (grass fed vs. conventional), purchase quantity and your location. I purchase items in bulk from a distributor that supplies grocery stores and restaurants and get things like chicken backs (~$0.30/lb.), turkey necks (~$0.60/lb), chicken hearts & gizzards ($0.80/lb), turkey hearts & gizzards ($0.90/lb.), pork hearts ($0.90/lb), beef hearts ($1.30/lb), etc. etc. All my items come in 15 to 50 lb. cases and I have to order a minimum of 300 lbs. at a time. Purchasing meat at the grocery store would be much more expensive.

If you wanted to work in a little raw for the dental benefits you would be safe feeding a a raw meaty bone a few times a week in addition to the kibble without throwing anything off balance (you’d just want to make sure to feed a little less kibble on those days to account for the calories in the raw meaty bone). Larger dogs do well with chicken leg quarters, chicken backs, turkey necks and pork necks. Smaller dogs do well with chicken wings and necks.

If you want to start feeding 50% raw you’ll need to be sure it’s balanced. I’d suggest checking out the book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown – it includes easy to prepare balanced recipes. You could also use a pre-mix – my favorite is See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix (formulated by the author of the aforementioned book). I like it because it’s reasonably priced and doesn’t add in large amounts of fruits/veggies/etc. like some other mixes do so I have the freedom to customize it more to my preferences.

You may also find some useful information on the raw diet threads: /forums/forum/raw-dog-food-forum/

• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Erin T]

I currently feed my four dogs (20 lbs – 60 lbs) Earthborn Holistic’s Primitive Natural formula, which I’ve been very happy with and receives Dog Food Advisor’s five star rating. I’m having some concern about tartar build up, and have always been interested in feeding raw. I’m concerned about the correct balance of nutrients, so I’m thinking I would like to start with 50/50 kibble/raw.

My question is, speaking purely of meat, what is an average price per pound, and what cuts/protein sources are you feeding? Cost is a big issue for me! I get my kibble at cost, so I spend about $80/month on it. Based on the needs of my crew, raw meat would have to be $.50/pound to match the price of kibble (of course, I could spend a bit more). I’m going to go down to the butcher shop in a day or two and inquire about different prices and cuts, but right now just trying to figure out if it’s feasible to do this.

I’m a raw NOVICE, by the way, so any advice is appreciated!

[Melissaandcrew]

Hi Johnny. I have owned Schwartz for over 20 yrs and to date have never had a problem with stones. I feed higher quality kibble raw dehydrated etc. Avoid carp foods with lots of fillers dyes and chemic as last. They are more prone to pancreatitis so use caution with high fat foods.

[Svetlana H]

We just purchased Texas Tripe dog food and my Anatolians are not interested at all. Don’t even go to their dishes. I will give it away if anybody wants it. 60+ pounds of beef, chicken, turkey and goat (all frozen in 2lb packages). I checked their feedback, nobody seems to have any problems, maybe my puppies are spoiled. We are in Tomball tx close to Houston. Please let me know.

[Katy L]

Sorry for my absence. Up to my elbows in laundry. I am SO excited to think this may be the culprit. It makes perfect sense now. I cannot tell you how much Sophia has suffered – not to mention the amount of money we’ve spent, tests done, raw food shipped in and frustration.

I have run Sophia’s laundry though the wash twice now, with vinegar rinse and can still smell the Gain on them. One more time ought to do it 🙂

Cyndi, what a stroke of luck you mentioned the Gain!

Have a good rest everyone. I’m off to fold some clothes.

[Katy L]

This is my first post on this forum – I do a lot of lurking. Sophia is an Airedale mix rescue (10 yrs old this month). You really struck a chord when you mentioned the Gain with Lavender. Sophia broke out in what looked like hives – but she had been having other skin issues and eventually was diagnosed with Hypothyroidism. Well, in the mean while, my husband broke out in rashes that looked almost like psoriasis (a few months after). I thought my husband was breaking out because of the stress from Sophia as we weren’t sleeping at night and were trying to keep her from chewing herself to bits when we were awake. It was stressful. A friend had given me a bottle of All Free laundry detergent that she didn’t care for and I used it . Sophia and my husband BOTH cleared up! However, I still hadn’t put all the facts together because We had started Sophia on medication, raw diet, bathing twice a week, etc. Husband’s rash was cleared up with topical cream. About a month ago, I wanted to use up the rest of the Gain and guess what? Sophia is broken out in hives and losing her hair. I cannot believe I didn’t figure this out until now! I feel like an idiot! Let me go throw out the remainder of the Gain and head to the store for some All Free and White vinegar (rinse).
This is a very abbreviated version of events but would be really interested to see how Bailey does when you re-wash the laundry. It sounds like Bailey is in great hands 🙂

[FreeholdHound]

Just gave Harry his 1st chicken back for dinner (frozen). He gave me his usual WTH look but was quickly chomping away. This is my chicken experiment as I have avoided it except for the feet as a treat. Reel Raw had them so I gave it a shot. As far as the rest of my order I noticed right off the bat that the duck necks were quite a bit smaller than what I usually get from Hare Today. I also ordered the beef grind & the beef kneecaps. I haven’t tried those yet.

[DogFoodie]

Oh geez!!

Thank you USA! And, thank you so much Tabitha, for sharing your calculator. This was a very timely post.

I was just contemplating decreasing the amount of kibble I feed Sam and increasing the amount of canned. The only raw he likes is tripe. (I was also wondering about the amount of fat in that, but wouldn’t feed it regularly anyway because of the organs in the MPC Tripe Supermix). But, obviously more canned is not a good idea.

I just picked up a case of the Nature’s Domain Turkey and Pea Stew, so I’ll just dole that out sparingly as usual and figure out a way to “make” him like the raw toppers.

FWIW, the numbers on the Kirkland were worse than the Nature’s Variety with protein at 31.4%, fat at 60.6% and 7.9% fiber.

Edit: Actually, I just realized I had the numbers flipped. I was having trouble toggling back and forth and the Kirkland was the 36.6/58.8/4.6 and the NVI LID Duck was 31.4/60.6/7.9.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by DogFoodie.

[USA]

Here are the numbers for boneless skinless raw chicken breast when run through the calculator

Crude Protein 23%
Crude Fat 1%
Crude Fiber 0%
Moisture 75%
Ash 1%

Nutrients on Calorie Basis
Total Protein 89.9%
Total Fat 10.1%
Total Carbohydrate 0.0%

As you can see the numbers for a high moisture, high protein, low fat meat will NOT have a super high fat content. So it is unrelated to “the difference between the calorie basis versus dry matter basis.” The high fat is only related to the fat content of the meat they use in canned products.

[Dori]

I feed my three toy dogs commercial raw diets. Very high protein, moderate fat and low carbs. My dogs weight 7 lbs., 6 lbs., and 5 lbs. If anything, I have problems keeping weight on them. They range in age from 5 years old to 15 years old. So to the question of what is the right amount of fat or protein, I don’t believe it’s a question that anyone other than the dog guardian can answer. Every dog is different. Every dog assimilates ingredients and levels differently. Protein in foods I feed my three little girls can range up to 54%, fat can at times hover around 36 – 38 %. I believe someone mentioned that it’s the quality of fats in a diet, not the actual percentage in the food. Same holds true for protein. Low carbs as I feed grain, potato, soy, etc. free. The only treats they get are organic small pieces of fruits or veggies.

No, I think whoever told you that a dog needs 1 gram of protein for every lb they weigh is incorrect. We would have an awful lot of emaciated dogs running around. Maybe someone with a better grasp on how many grams of protein to feed per pound will add some info.

I feed each of my dogs between 2 to 2.5% of their body weight per day. I use a kitchen scale and I feed them twice a day.

Hope something I’ve added helps.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Tabitha,

I tried it for a couple of canned foods and I used a number of 3% for the ash and those numbers seemed right. If I left it at 8%, the numbers seemed very off and I ended up with a negative percent for carbs.

I had been wanting to figure out these numbers because my food intolerance dog has turned into my picky dog. There are some raw foods that he refuses to touch, but he loves canned food. I thought I’d start using a larger portion of canned, but still use it as a topper for kibble to keep things affordable.

Isn’t a canned food with protein at 36.6%, fat at 58.8% and fiber at 4.6% on a calorie basis way too high in fat? I’d never feed a kibble with that much fat.

I put in several different quality canned products that I have here and the numbers are similar.

Am I overlooking something?

[Melissaandcrew]

Like Sandy, when I make a batch of homemade, I make it in bulk, and feed most of it before moving on. Last night we made a chicken bone, beef heart, ground beef blend, with sweet potato and kale. Mixed berries for the veggie, and pork liver and kidney. This will be the main stay of the raw until gone, with other things mixed in from day to day-tripe, ground duck, turkey etc.

[Cyndi]

My dog threw up some pieces of bone a few times during the first few weeks of starting her on raw too. I think it’s just their digestive system getting used to the change.

[pugmomsandy]

You surely can repeat meals. Nothing wrong with that. You can feed one protein per week and then switch or one protein meal, up to you. Every meal does not have to be balanced. Just remember balance over time (and variety). I make a batch of food (about 30 lbs) and they almost eat all of it before I make another one that is different. But my dogs eat alot of other things as well – canned food, dehydrated food and some kibble, but they do get raw just about every day. Another thing to consider in the beginning is feeding one food for at least 3 – 4 weeks so you can watch for an allergy or intolerance to that particular food before offering a host of different flavors. For instance, test out the turkey and veggies for 3-4 weeks before introducing another formula. ZiwiPeak and K9 Natural are from New Zealand so you probably can find them.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[pugmomsandy]

There are raw foods with added minerals like Stella & chewy’s and Primal to name a few. Nature’s Variety’s chicken recipe has actually passed feeding trials so I would assume their other recipes are formulated similarly (but it’s just an assumption). Answers (Detailed) has a pork recipe. And fortunately, there are more protein choices as well for raw foods like rabbit, bison and goat. You should be able to find lamb and pork relatively easy. The book “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” also includes a recipe for a vitamin/mineral mix to make complete diets. Check out Hare-Today Gone Tomorrow and My Pet Carnivore for meat, organs, grinds and whole prey. A non-fish oil option for omega-3 is algae oil and calamari oil if he has a sensitivity to fish oil as well. There are some dehydrated or freeze-dried options as well like Grandma Lucy’s (not raw) and ZiwiPeak (air-dried).

[emma s]

Hi,

I am looking to switch my 3 year old border terrier to a raw diet
However I am concerned that I will not be able to ensure that he gets all the nutrients and minerals needed. He has been tested for food allergies and has had positive reactions for:

Chicken
Beef
Salmon
Venison
Soy
Cows Milk

With the lack of variety – will I be able to ensure that he has a healthy diet? Should I supplement his diet with other minerals that he will not get from certain meat proteins for example?

Thanks very much for your time

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Shelley –

You might find this thread helpful: /forums/topic/eating-raw-meaty-bones/

There’s some videos there of one of my dogs eating RMBs so you can get an idea of what’s normal.

[Barbara O]

I feed Primal chicken…only because it’s the only one Toby will eat…He has done exceedingly well on it..I’ve fed him Instinct frozen but Primal has some veggies in it…this is not a dog…this is a genet…My friend feeds the Duck Primal mixed into the kibble she feeds…it has made a great difference in the dog’s health…It has a rare disease and this food has prolonged the dog’s life…The medicine alone runs her about $200.00 a month…so she’s picky about what she feeds. I cannot say enough good about Primal…and Instinct also..I do Great Dane rescue and all dogs are different…The one I’ve adopted is a triple recessive…he will be prone to skin and hair disorders…so I’m trying to meet this head on…the other Danes I’ve had the past year loved raw veggies, raw bones and their kibble.The woofed their feed down, whereas Roger is a slow eater. Just use common horse sense with your dogs…Make sure they get enough fat as most foods limit this or use an inferior oil…salmon oil is best…they need the DHA…most oils are omega 6 that you find in their feed…just remember…eliminate wheat, soy and corn…these are inferior feeds for our domestic animals..they are carnivores, kin to wolves, and need animal protein…they are not kin to cows…which are omnivores….

[Shelley M]

Hi all, I am a new raw feeder (thanks to reading many many posts on this forum!) and so far my experience has been good…..with one exception……I am the owner of a “gulper” :-\

She is a 13wk old black mouth cur mix. LOVES food of any kind. Currently I am feeding a pre-mixed raw with the addition of RMB (the plan is to eventually switch to PMR and off pre mixed but for now this is what is comfortable for me…..one step at a time LOL)

My question is…exactly how much does she need to chew up the RMBs ? I have given her chicken necks a few times and she bites off chunks and swallows them (I try to hold on to slow her down but it’s not helping much). Even the larger turkey necks are still not chewed up , just bitten off and down the hatch). Are the bones digestible enough to be ok or…..???

Of course I am still in the “omg is this going to send us to the ER” stage so maybe I’m just being paranoid….

[T]

I just wanted to share this page on my website because I think it would be really helpful to a lot of people. If you’re like me, you get a headache after you stand in the aisle at the dog food store and try to do the math to compare canned food to raw food to dry food!

I put this simple calculator together so you can plug in the numbers from the guaranteed analysis on a dry food, get the % protein, fat, and carbs on a CALORIE basis. Then plug in the GA numbers from a canned food to get % on calorie basis so you can compare the dry food to canned food on a equivalent basis.

Check it out and let me know if you find any glitches or have questions.
http://naturalalternativesvet.com/label

Tabitha

[Akari_32]

Hey guys! Dropping in with an update on the cat.

I weighed him today, and he’s up to 12.4 pounds. I’m unsure how much he should weigh, and its hard to judge from all his fluff, but I think this is a pretty good weight for him. I do think he could stand to be a bit thinner, but he’s constantly hungry, and if the cat ain’t happy, ain’t nobody happy. I feed him at 11 in the morning and 11 at night. I haven’t been giving out much in the way of treats recently, raw or commercial, either. I do want to get some more beef heart for him because he really loved it and I do worry about his teeth. I’ll have to figure out a way to tweak him diets some to get him to drop some weight. I do want to see how he holds this weight though. So the tweaking won’t happen just yet. If he stays steady at this weight, I think I’ll just leave it how it is.

Otherwise, his fur is like silk, and he’s active and lovey (to me, anyways LOL) and does all his normal naughty cat things.

Right now, his daily food line up looks like this:

1) Ideal Balance (3x 3 oz cans)
2) Sheba (3x 3 ox cans)
3) Wellness Complete Health (2x 5.5 oz cans)
4) Ideal Balance (3x 3 oz cans)
5) Sheba (3x 3 ox cans)
6) Wellness Grain Free Tuna (2x 5.5 oz cans)
7) Science Diet Kitten (3x 3 oz cans)
8) Sheba (3x 3 ox cans)
9) Wellness Complete Health (2x 5.5 oz cans)
10) Ideal Balance (3x 3 oz cans)
11) Sheba (3x 3 ox cans)
12) Wellness Grain Free Tuna (2x 5.5 oz cans)

And then other set just like that. The Sheba and Wellness Complete Health are Turkey, Chicken, and Beef flavors. The Ideal Balance is the venison grain inclusive (he really like this, and its not too bad, just higher carb than I like). The Science Diet Kitten is Liver and Chicken. I’ve got 6 cans of Sheba, 6 cans of Ideal Balance, and 2 cans of Science Diet left over that didn’t fit into the rotation evenly that I can use later. I also got my coupons for Wellness in my email that I’ll be using as soon as I have time to plan that out and find a good deal. He’s not got enough Wellness in his diet right now for my liking, but what I’ve got now will work for now while we go on vacation, and he’s got enough food for the time being.

Oh, and I finally got my $4 off $20 coupon printed out, and Authority isn’t on sale any more 🙁 Wasn’t meant to be, I guess. Oh well. Hopefully next time it goes on sale I can get it.

[aquariangt]

3rding the comment about Blue. I won’t touch it.

What about dehydrated? I don’t have much experience with canine cancer-and the people I have talked to about it I’ve steered towards commercial raw-but a dehydrated food may be efficient for you. Canine Caviar also totes being the best kibble for cancer

[Deborah M]

K9 Natural saved me!
I tried everything to get my two Shih Tzus to eat. They would eat to live and that was about it. My local pet store recommended the K9 Natural Venison and Green Tripe. Wow. What a difference. They love it and eat on cue, every morning, and every night. I’ve read blog after blog, review after review, and it seems that almost everyone shares my opinion of this food. You can actually pronounce each ingredient, and they are all quality ingredients. Lastly, I’ve contacted the K9 manufacturer a couple of times with questions since I’m a raw diet newbie. They got back to me with a personal email right away, both times, and answered my question in detail to my satisfaction. Not only it this a great product, but it comes from a great company.

[Dori]

My major concern with your post is that you are saying that Bella has not eaten in four days. Regardless of whether this food is on EC’s choice or not, you have much more to be concerned about.

Please find a food that Bella will eat asap. As far as Lucy is concerned, I too have a dog with Cancer. She is a 15 year old Maltese with bladder and lung cancer. To date she remains asymptomatic. I have done extensive research since her diagnosis three months ago and all roads lead to raw food diet for canine’s with cancer. Fortunately my three dogs have been on raw dog food diet for at least a couple of years now. Obviously because of Hannah’s age and also because she is asymptomatic which have chosen not to go the chemo and radiation route. I have put her on K9 Immunity Plus which has been recommended by many on the various canine cancer sites. I have also added Denamarin to her diet which is a combination of milk thistle and Sam-e. Also I give her turmeric & curcumin daily (helps with inflammation). So far she continues to do well. Eating, drinking, playing, barking at anything that passes by (be it a car, person, or animal). We give her tons and tons of love, massages, and hugs.

Good Luck, I hope all goes well and that you can find a food that your dogs will eat.

Forgot to mention that because I feed my dogs raw, they eat no grains whatsoever. No corn, potatoes, rice, soy. I feed a high protein, moderate fat, low carb diet to all my girls. I also feed them organic fruits and veggies as treats. I don’t feed any commercial treats.

I not feed BB or Purina under any circumstances. If you are going to continue to feed a dry food though, you should add water to it. Of course, I would urge commercial raw foods, especially for Lucy, Bella can also certainly benefit from a commercial raw diet. But if not raw, then I would urge you to find a freeze dried or dehydrated dog food.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by Dori.

[Zach M]

How long does frozen raw last then?

[pugmomsandy]

The freeze drying process makes it more expensive. I would like to buy a freeze dryer, but they’re at least $10,000! @@ So I bought a full size upright freezer instead (on sale) to store all the frozen raw! The difference is in freeze-dried food, the moisture is removed and the product is shelf stable.

[Zach M]

Im thinking about going with duck, but i have a question, what is the difference between the freeze dried and the frozen raw. The frozen raw is so much cheaper. Just wondering. Oh, btw, the ingredients are nearly identical.

[Dori]

If you live near a Pet Smart, they carry Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw. It is a very good commercial raw diet that takes all the guess work out of your preparing raw yourself and wondering how to balance it all out. I feed commercial raw foods and Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw is one of the foods in my rotation. Others I use are Primal Raw, Stella & Chewy’s Raw, Darwin’s (fabulous food and one of the raw foods with the lowest amount of fat that I have found), Vital Essential’s Raw, Answers Detailed Raw. There are quite a few others, just wanted to give you some ideas. Some are more difficult to find, but as I said Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw is sold at Petco and Petsmart and a lot of small pet food stores also.

I have read on occasion on this site that some dogs that are prone to seizures are having difficulty with rosemary. So as HDM stated, I too would avoid it. Why take chances.

Also, please go with a grain free food. Dogs have no need for grains, potatoes, rice, corn, soy and, in fact, these ingredients cause many different issues in dogs. Switching to raw made a world of difference with my three dogs.

As HDM stated, traditional vets are not nutritionists. Pay no attention to their advice on feeding unless you are going to a holistic, homeopathic vet. They are very hard to find. And certainly do not feed your dog any of the foods that the traditional vet sells. Very little actual quality (if any at all) real food in what they sell. Pedigree, Purina, Iams are also terrible foods. Lots of fillers and very little quality proteins.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by Dori.

[Kat W]

My 5 year old weim Nina just had it done yesterday, vet told me to feed Chappie food, I disagree with ready made dog food, due to the fact of my GSP was on home cooked food sometimes raw and she was in good health for 17 years (!) I am analysing what could cause it and one thing is – dehydration, hot weather, and eating rubbish outside…. Wonder is the foam on dogs mouth while exercising could be and indicator for amount of swollen foam and that will create air lock. :/
Vet told be to rise her bowl for 6 ” …. But opinion says if the dog is healthy don’t rise it- I do have her sister as well…. Feed and look after on the same way…. “Touch wood ” no concerns with her…. And water control amount intake …. It will be a day when they have to stay at home alone and what? I am freaking out at the minute, just joined this forum …. Love the great answers and ideas …. Which I do agree with as they are logic. Ninas vet said that raw diet can lack in fibre, but that can be replaced with blended vegetables …. I believe… Plz let me know what do u think about all of that …. Thank u.

[Cyndi]

Hi Betsy, I expected the same thing from the vet. I had a feeling she was going to say a nutritional deficiency. I really like the vets there, but I so wish I could find a vet close that doesn’t object to raw feeding and actually helps me out with it. Yeah, I knew I’d keep worrying too, lol! That’s just how I am. I just can’t figure out how to shut my mind off when it starts over-thinking things. Thank you!

Losul, you’re awesome. Thanks for clearing all that up and emailing Steve Brown again. I really appreciate it. I don’t know the percentages of organs in that organ mix I get, but I highly doubt there is all that much liver in it and Bailey only gets a small portion of it with a meal. I mix the beef, organs and tripe together, then I portion it up into 6oz. portions, so she’s not getting anywhere near 10% of liver with a meal. So, that makes me feel better. I don’t give that to her every morning, just probably 4 maybe 5 mornings a week. I will though, possibly switch to just ground beef or ground turkey or something when I’m using the SSLL and when I use the mix with the tripe and organs, maybe just use the Dr. Harvey’s Whole Food Multi VItamin and Mineral supplement that I’ve used in the past. The ingredients in that are: Bee Pollen, Spirulina, Lecithin, Nutritional Yeast, Garlic, Flax Seed Meal, Alfalfa Leaf, Kelp, Bilberry Leaf, Chamomile Flowers, Oat Straw, Ginkgo Leaf, Dandelion, Burdock, Thyme, Papaya Leaf, Rosemary Leaf, Peppermint Leaf, Fennel Seed, Suma, Red Clover Blossoms, Milk Thistle, Rose Hips, Yellow Dock, Licorice Root, Ginger, Foti.

Thank you again losul!

& C4C, Thank YOU!! I have no idea what I’d do without this site. Well, on second thought, without this site, my Bailey would still be eating Purina One or Pedigree probably. I am so thankful for ALL you guys and your knowledge and help and expertise and your friendship! I have real friends that I can talk to in person about stuff, but then I have my awesome DFA family and friends that I am so very thankful for when it comes to stuff like this!!

I know I’ve said it before, but thank you to EVERYONE for keeping me sane and thinking clearly (for the most part, lol!)

[DogFoodie]

I knew you’d keep worrying about it! LOL! I would too. : )

I was thinking about something last night and Losul read my mind (probably all of our minds) when he said, “It’s to be expected, that the first thing a vet against raw home feeding is going to automatically suspect a deficiency, nutritional excess or something.”

Those test results will be in soon. Hang in there!

[Cyndi]

Thanks losul and C4C. I sincerely appreciate your input. & C4C, no apologies necessary, your question basically ties in to what I’m dealing with too. I’ve always assumed ground beef or the like is just that, ground beef. No organs. I would think ground turkey or chicken is the same, just ground meat, no organs.

I agree yesterday I was thinking in my head that I wouldn’t have all these problems if I just went with a good kibble. Thanks for talking sense into me everyone. I guess if I use just ground beef and maybe tripe in the am with the SSLL, that would be much better. Bailey already does get liver a couple times a week with dinner.

Maybe if I even did one meal of commercial raw, if it’s not too expensive, that would balance everything out. Or just tweak her am meals a bit? Didn’t I say I was going to quit thinking so much til after the blood work?? Lol!

Thanks again you guys, for all your input. I really do appreciate it!!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Zach –

Primal’s raw formulas could certainly be used as a topper to boost the quality of kibble. You could also use tinned sardines and fresh veggies. The benefits of using the Primal would be that it’s a complete and balanced food so you could add as much as you wanted and it’s raw however, canned sardines and fresh cooked veggies would still be a good boost and would certainly be cheaper. If you go with the Primal, like I said, you can add as much as you want because it’s complete and balanced – just be sure the reduce the amount of kibble he’s receiving accordingly. If you’re feeding sardines and veggies, it should account for no more than 10% of your dog’s calories.

[losul]

Hi again Cyndi.

It’s to be expected, that the first thing a vet against raw home feeding is going to automatically suspect a deficiency, nutritional excess or something. It’s only going to take what 2 or 3 days to get any blood work results. So I agree with U.S.A. and all the others, and as I said previously, I wouldn’t make any immediate major dietary changes or assume much, at least until then. And even then if nothing comes up in the bloodwork, your vet will still be biased against your home prepping. It won’t hurt, at least not anything but your pocketbook, to use some commercial prepared raw, in place of some of your home prepped., if that makes everyone feel better. But to just switch immediatelyto a lot of kibble, uh no.

Thanks U.S.A for writing to Steve Brown. I know that heart muscle is not so much considered an organ for the purposes of feeding, and I use alot of beef hearts, many times a majority component of my homemade, but not so sure that Steve’s intent is nutrient rich organs like kidneys, lungs, spleen, pancreas, etc would fall into that same category of ” 20% is O.K.” with his pre-mix such as heart muscle would.

Regardless of any of that, i don’t hink it likely that what you have been feeding is causing any kind of major problems, The main thing is that you aren’t feeding bone-in grinds with the pre-mix, I think.

I just wrote Steve asking him to clarify a few more things, actually wrote twice, because I forgot something the first message. I keep a bag of his mix here on the rare occaison that I use if I get lazy, forgetful, etc, for whatever reason don’t want to do the full home prep. I’ve always assumed it was designed to be balanced with muscle meat alone, the instructions don’t say otherwise. I’ve never used liver/other organs with with it. Should it not be believed then that it’s balanced then with using muscle meat alone? It shouldn’t be so ambiguous, IMO.

I know that Know better pet foods has 2 pre-mixes for raw feeding, Better in the raw. One formula MUST have liver added by the user, the other NO liver should be added.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by losul.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Zach-
I am not familiar with Primal turkey and sardine. But, I’m all in favor of boosting kibble with a topper. Have you checked out Steve Brown’s website, See Spot Live Longer? He has written a few books on home made food and dog nutrition. He also has a download that is only $2.95 that spells out how to supplement kibble with fresh and raw foods. Such as eggs, sardines, veges, fruits and organs. I top my pups kibble with either canned, dehydrated, frozen raw nuggets, eggs or sardines every meal. Have fun with it!

[DogFoodie]

Hi Cyndi,

I agree with James. I wouldn’t make any big changes in Bailey’s diet just yet. I’d take a look at those areas that could use some tweaking and make those small changes now. But, I honestly think I would wait to make any big changes until after you get her test results back. It’s never too soon to start researching though.

Now, that said, it sounds like changing Bailey’s diet is something you’ve had a bit of a nagging concern about for at least a little while and I truly believe you have to do what your gut instinct tells you to do. If that means commercial raw or even kibble with toppers, kibble with an ABC day, etc., I support your decision. At the end of the day, you have to have peace and following your conscious is what will get you there.

You have, and will continue to, do right by Bailey.

[Dori]

Hi Cyndi. I’ve been reading this forum and wondering what, if anything, I can add. One…..Wait until blood test results come back. I hope that you had your vet do a complete CBC and also thyroid work up. Thyroid lab results always take a few more days to come back then the rest of tests. Hannah has been hypothyroid for years (loss of hair, etc. etc.). Another thing is that if you can afford it please don’t go with Bravo (recalls and other issues that I have heard about from friends that used to feed Bravo). Primal is an excellent choice. Obviously so is Darwins (in the long run, cheaper that most commercial raw diets). Also Answers Detailed, Stella & Chewy’s Raw, Natures Variety Instinct Raw. Obviously there are many other fine quality commercial complete and balanced raw diets. Please wait, breathe, and wait for test results. Then……weigh your options. The last option you should go with, imho, is kibble, especially with a dog that has been eating raw. Wait and see what’s going on with Bailey before jumping ship. Keep us posted.

[Leah12345]

There are really knowledgeable folks here so I will defer to them and just just briefly share our itchy paws story experience. My Lhasa mix chewed her front paws and itched her ears nonstop. We found out she was allergic to poultry and white potatoes and I found a reasonable kibble that worked for her. When grandma or a neighbor gives her treats we get the paw problems again. A lot of people on this forum opt for raw, but it is just not an option for us. I will be watching to see what others have to say. Fingers crossed for you! Leah

[pugmomsandy]

You can also feed whole raw fish. I buy sardines that range from 7-10 inches long and were only $1.19 per pound. Also some restaurant suppliers will also sell to the public so you can buy by the case.

[Cyndi]

Ok, since my vet update I’ve been thinking. If I switched Bailey from raw to canned or kibble in the am, does anyone know if I should do it gradually or just start giving it to her? She’s been on raw for about a year and a half. I don’t want to upset her stomach, but she is used to eating alot of different things. Thanks again, in advance for anyone’s help!

[Melissa P]

I cook my dogs’ food. I would not want to feed raw. Sometimes they drop their food out of the bowls and onto the floor. They also lick their paws when their done. My lab likes to wipe her face on the couch and my Brittany wipes his on the carpet. Both of them like to lick their paws when they are done eating. Sounds like a great way to spread salmonella all over the house. There was a small study done by the government that showed the salmonella remained in/on some of the dogs mouths and did not always digest from raw food showing up in their feces. After watching my Mom develop antibiotic resistant salmonella food poisoning, I worry about things like this.