[Akari_32]

Hey guys! Dropping in with an update on the cat.

I weighed him today, and he’s up to 12.4 pounds. I’m unsure how much he should weigh, and its hard to judge from all his fluff, but I think this is a pretty good weight for him. I do think he could stand to be a bit thinner, but he’s constantly hungry, and if the cat ain’t happy, ain’t nobody happy. I feed him at 11 in the morning and 11 at night. I haven’t been giving out much in the way of treats recently, raw or commercial, either. I do want to get some more beef heart for him because he really loved it and I do worry about his teeth. I’ll have to figure out a way to tweak him diets some to get him to drop some weight. I do want to see how he holds this weight though. So the tweaking won’t happen just yet. If he stays steady at this weight, I think I’ll just leave it how it is.

Otherwise, his fur is like silk, and he’s active and lovey (to me, anyways LOL) and does all his normal naughty cat things.

Right now, his daily food line up looks like this:

1) Ideal Balance (3x 3 oz cans)
2) Sheba (3x 3 ox cans)
3) Wellness Complete Health (2x 5.5 oz cans)
4) Ideal Balance (3x 3 oz cans)
5) Sheba (3x 3 ox cans)
6) Wellness Grain Free Tuna (2x 5.5 oz cans)
7) Science Diet Kitten (3x 3 oz cans)
8) Sheba (3x 3 ox cans)
9) Wellness Complete Health (2x 5.5 oz cans)
10) Ideal Balance (3x 3 oz cans)
11) Sheba (3x 3 ox cans)
12) Wellness Grain Free Tuna (2x 5.5 oz cans)

And then other set just like that. The Sheba and Wellness Complete Health are Turkey, Chicken, and Beef flavors. The Ideal Balance is the venison grain inclusive (he really like this, and its not too bad, just higher carb than I like). The Science Diet Kitten is Liver and Chicken. I’ve got 6 cans of Sheba, 6 cans of Ideal Balance, and 2 cans of Science Diet left over that didn’t fit into the rotation evenly that I can use later. I also got my coupons for Wellness in my email that I’ll be using as soon as I have time to plan that out and find a good deal. He’s not got enough Wellness in his diet right now for my liking, but what I’ve got now will work for now while we go on vacation, and he’s got enough food for the time being.

Oh, and I finally got my $4 off $20 coupon printed out, and Authority isn’t on sale any more 🙁 Wasn’t meant to be, I guess. Oh well. Hopefully next time it goes on sale I can get it.

[aquariangt]

3rding the comment about Blue. I won’t touch it.

What about dehydrated? I don’t have much experience with canine cancer-and the people I have talked to about it I’ve steered towards commercial raw-but a dehydrated food may be efficient for you. Canine Caviar also totes being the best kibble for cancer

[Deborah M]

K9 Natural saved me!
I tried everything to get my two Shih Tzus to eat. They would eat to live and that was about it. My local pet store recommended the K9 Natural Venison and Green Tripe. Wow. What a difference. They love it and eat on cue, every morning, and every night. I’ve read blog after blog, review after review, and it seems that almost everyone shares my opinion of this food. You can actually pronounce each ingredient, and they are all quality ingredients. Lastly, I’ve contacted the K9 manufacturer a couple of times with questions since I’m a raw diet newbie. They got back to me with a personal email right away, both times, and answered my question in detail to my satisfaction. Not only it this a great product, but it comes from a great company.

[Dori]

My major concern with your post is that you are saying that Bella has not eaten in four days. Regardless of whether this food is on EC’s choice or not, you have much more to be concerned about.

Please find a food that Bella will eat asap. As far as Lucy is concerned, I too have a dog with Cancer. She is a 15 year old Maltese with bladder and lung cancer. To date she remains asymptomatic. I have done extensive research since her diagnosis three months ago and all roads lead to raw food diet for canine’s with cancer. Fortunately my three dogs have been on raw dog food diet for at least a couple of years now. Obviously because of Hannah’s age and also because she is asymptomatic which have chosen not to go the chemo and radiation route. I have put her on K9 Immunity Plus which has been recommended by many on the various canine cancer sites. I have also added Denamarin to her diet which is a combination of milk thistle and Sam-e. Also I give her turmeric & curcumin daily (helps with inflammation). So far she continues to do well. Eating, drinking, playing, barking at anything that passes by (be it a car, person, or animal). We give her tons and tons of love, massages, and hugs.

Good Luck, I hope all goes well and that you can find a food that your dogs will eat.

Forgot to mention that because I feed my dogs raw, they eat no grains whatsoever. No corn, potatoes, rice, soy. I feed a high protein, moderate fat, low carb diet to all my girls. I also feed them organic fruits and veggies as treats. I don’t feed any commercial treats.

I not feed BB or Purina under any circumstances. If you are going to continue to feed a dry food though, you should add water to it. Of course, I would urge commercial raw foods, especially for Lucy, Bella can also certainly benefit from a commercial raw diet. But if not raw, then I would urge you to find a freeze dried or dehydrated dog food.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Dori.

[Zach M]

How long does frozen raw last then?

[pugmomsandy]

The freeze drying process makes it more expensive. I would like to buy a freeze dryer, but they’re at least $10,000! @@ So I bought a full size upright freezer instead (on sale) to store all the frozen raw! The difference is in freeze-dried food, the moisture is removed and the product is shelf stable.

[Zach M]

Im thinking about going with duck, but i have a question, what is the difference between the freeze dried and the frozen raw. The frozen raw is so much cheaper. Just wondering. Oh, btw, the ingredients are nearly identical.

[Dori]

If you live near a Pet Smart, they carry Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw. It is a very good commercial raw diet that takes all the guess work out of your preparing raw yourself and wondering how to balance it all out. I feed commercial raw foods and Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw is one of the foods in my rotation. Others I use are Primal Raw, Stella & Chewy’s Raw, Darwin’s (fabulous food and one of the raw foods with the lowest amount of fat that I have found), Vital Essential’s Raw, Answers Detailed Raw. There are quite a few others, just wanted to give you some ideas. Some are more difficult to find, but as I said Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw is sold at Petco and Petsmart and a lot of small pet food stores also.

I have read on occasion on this site that some dogs that are prone to seizures are having difficulty with rosemary. So as HDM stated, I too would avoid it. Why take chances.

Also, please go with a grain free food. Dogs have no need for grains, potatoes, rice, corn, soy and, in fact, these ingredients cause many different issues in dogs. Switching to raw made a world of difference with my three dogs.

As HDM stated, traditional vets are not nutritionists. Pay no attention to their advice on feeding unless you are going to a holistic, homeopathic vet. They are very hard to find. And certainly do not feed your dog any of the foods that the traditional vet sells. Very little actual quality (if any at all) real food in what they sell. Pedigree, Purina, Iams are also terrible foods. Lots of fillers and very little quality proteins.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Dori.

[Kat W]

My 5 year old weim Nina just had it done yesterday, vet told me to feed Chappie food, I disagree with ready made dog food, due to the fact of my GSP was on home cooked food sometimes raw and she was in good health for 17 years (!) I am analysing what could cause it and one thing is – dehydration, hot weather, and eating rubbish outside…. Wonder is the foam on dogs mouth while exercising could be and indicator for amount of swollen foam and that will create air lock. :/
Vet told be to rise her bowl for 6 ” …. But opinion says if the dog is healthy don’t rise it- I do have her sister as well…. Feed and look after on the same way…. “Touch wood ” no concerns with her…. And water control amount intake …. It will be a day when they have to stay at home alone and what? I am freaking out at the minute, just joined this forum …. Love the great answers and ideas …. Which I do agree with as they are logic. Ninas vet said that raw diet can lack in fibre, but that can be replaced with blended vegetables …. I believe… Plz let me know what do u think about all of that …. Thank u.

[Cyndi]

Hi Betsy, I expected the same thing from the vet. I had a feeling she was going to say a nutritional deficiency. I really like the vets there, but I so wish I could find a vet close that doesn’t object to raw feeding and actually helps me out with it. Yeah, I knew I’d keep worrying too, lol! That’s just how I am. I just can’t figure out how to shut my mind off when it starts over-thinking things. Thank you!

Losul, you’re awesome. Thanks for clearing all that up and emailing Steve Brown again. I really appreciate it. I don’t know the percentages of organs in that organ mix I get, but I highly doubt there is all that much liver in it and Bailey only gets a small portion of it with a meal. I mix the beef, organs and tripe together, then I portion it up into 6oz. portions, so she’s not getting anywhere near 10% of liver with a meal. So, that makes me feel better. I don’t give that to her every morning, just probably 4 maybe 5 mornings a week. I will though, possibly switch to just ground beef or ground turkey or something when I’m using the SSLL and when I use the mix with the tripe and organs, maybe just use the Dr. Harvey’s Whole Food Multi VItamin and Mineral supplement that I’ve used in the past. The ingredients in that are: Bee Pollen, Spirulina, Lecithin, Nutritional Yeast, Garlic, Flax Seed Meal, Alfalfa Leaf, Kelp, Bilberry Leaf, Chamomile Flowers, Oat Straw, Ginkgo Leaf, Dandelion, Burdock, Thyme, Papaya Leaf, Rosemary Leaf, Peppermint Leaf, Fennel Seed, Suma, Red Clover Blossoms, Milk Thistle, Rose Hips, Yellow Dock, Licorice Root, Ginger, Foti.

Thank you again losul!

& C4C, Thank YOU!! I have no idea what I’d do without this site. Well, on second thought, without this site, my Bailey would still be eating Purina One or Pedigree probably. I am so thankful for ALL you guys and your knowledge and help and expertise and your friendship! I have real friends that I can talk to in person about stuff, but then I have my awesome DFA family and friends that I am so very thankful for when it comes to stuff like this!!

I know I’ve said it before, but thank you to EVERYONE for keeping me sane and thinking clearly (for the most part, lol!)

[DogFoodie]

I knew you’d keep worrying about it! LOL! I would too. : )

I was thinking about something last night and Losul read my mind (probably all of our minds) when he said, “It’s to be expected, that the first thing a vet against raw home feeding is going to automatically suspect a deficiency, nutritional excess or something.”

Those test results will be in soon. Hang in there!

[Cyndi]

Thanks losul and C4C. I sincerely appreciate your input. & C4C, no apologies necessary, your question basically ties in to what I’m dealing with too. I’ve always assumed ground beef or the like is just that, ground beef. No organs. I would think ground turkey or chicken is the same, just ground meat, no organs.

I agree yesterday I was thinking in my head that I wouldn’t have all these problems if I just went with a good kibble. Thanks for talking sense into me everyone. I guess if I use just ground beef and maybe tripe in the am with the SSLL, that would be much better. Bailey already does get liver a couple times a week with dinner.

Maybe if I even did one meal of commercial raw, if it’s not too expensive, that would balance everything out. Or just tweak her am meals a bit? Didn’t I say I was going to quit thinking so much til after the blood work?? Lol!

Thanks again you guys, for all your input. I really do appreciate it!!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Zach –

Primal’s raw formulas could certainly be used as a topper to boost the quality of kibble. You could also use tinned sardines and fresh veggies. The benefits of using the Primal would be that it’s a complete and balanced food so you could add as much as you wanted and it’s raw however, canned sardines and fresh cooked veggies would still be a good boost and would certainly be cheaper. If you go with the Primal, like I said, you can add as much as you want because it’s complete and balanced – just be sure the reduce the amount of kibble he’s receiving accordingly. If you’re feeding sardines and veggies, it should account for no more than 10% of your dog’s calories.

[losul]

Hi again Cyndi.

It’s to be expected, that the first thing a vet against raw home feeding is going to automatically suspect a deficiency, nutritional excess or something. It’s only going to take what 2 or 3 days to get any blood work results. So I agree with U.S.A. and all the others, and as I said previously, I wouldn’t make any immediate major dietary changes or assume much, at least until then. And even then if nothing comes up in the bloodwork, your vet will still be biased against your home prepping. It won’t hurt, at least not anything but your pocketbook, to use some commercial prepared raw, in place of some of your home prepped., if that makes everyone feel better. But to just switch immediatelyto a lot of kibble, uh no.

Thanks U.S.A for writing to Steve Brown. I know that heart muscle is not so much considered an organ for the purposes of feeding, and I use alot of beef hearts, many times a majority component of my homemade, but not so sure that Steve’s intent is nutrient rich organs like kidneys, lungs, spleen, pancreas, etc would fall into that same category of ” 20% is O.K.” with his pre-mix such as heart muscle would.

Regardless of any of that, i don’t hink it likely that what you have been feeding is causing any kind of major problems, The main thing is that you aren’t feeding bone-in grinds with the pre-mix, I think.

I just wrote Steve asking him to clarify a few more things, actually wrote twice, because I forgot something the first message. I keep a bag of his mix here on the rare occaison that I use if I get lazy, forgetful, etc, for whatever reason don’t want to do the full home prep. I’ve always assumed it was designed to be balanced with muscle meat alone, the instructions don’t say otherwise. I’ve never used liver/other organs with with it. Should it not be believed then that it’s balanced then with using muscle meat alone? It shouldn’t be so ambiguous, IMO.

I know that Know better pet foods has 2 pre-mixes for raw feeding, Better in the raw. One formula MUST have liver added by the user, the other NO liver should be added.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by losul.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Zach-
I am not familiar with Primal turkey and sardine. But, I’m all in favor of boosting kibble with a topper. Have you checked out Steve Brown’s website, See Spot Live Longer? He has written a few books on home made food and dog nutrition. He also has a download that is only $2.95 that spells out how to supplement kibble with fresh and raw foods. Such as eggs, sardines, veges, fruits and organs. I top my pups kibble with either canned, dehydrated, frozen raw nuggets, eggs or sardines every meal. Have fun with it!

[DogFoodie]

Hi Cyndi,

I agree with James. I wouldn’t make any big changes in Bailey’s diet just yet. I’d take a look at those areas that could use some tweaking and make those small changes now. But, I honestly think I would wait to make any big changes until after you get her test results back. It’s never too soon to start researching though.

Now, that said, it sounds like changing Bailey’s diet is something you’ve had a bit of a nagging concern about for at least a little while and I truly believe you have to do what your gut instinct tells you to do. If that means commercial raw or even kibble with toppers, kibble with an ABC day, etc., I support your decision. At the end of the day, you have to have peace and following your conscious is what will get you there.

You have, and will continue to, do right by Bailey.

[Dori]

Hi Cyndi. I’ve been reading this forum and wondering what, if anything, I can add. One…..Wait until blood test results come back. I hope that you had your vet do a complete CBC and also thyroid work up. Thyroid lab results always take a few more days to come back then the rest of tests. Hannah has been hypothyroid for years (loss of hair, etc. etc.). Another thing is that if you can afford it please don’t go with Bravo (recalls and other issues that I have heard about from friends that used to feed Bravo). Primal is an excellent choice. Obviously so is Darwins (in the long run, cheaper that most commercial raw diets). Also Answers Detailed, Stella & Chewy’s Raw, Natures Variety Instinct Raw. Obviously there are many other fine quality commercial complete and balanced raw diets. Please wait, breathe, and wait for test results. Then……weigh your options. The last option you should go with, imho, is kibble, especially with a dog that has been eating raw. Wait and see what’s going on with Bailey before jumping ship. Keep us posted.

[Leah12345]

There are really knowledgeable folks here so I will defer to them and just just briefly share our itchy paws story experience. My Lhasa mix chewed her front paws and itched her ears nonstop. We found out she was allergic to poultry and white potatoes and I found a reasonable kibble that worked for her. When grandma or a neighbor gives her treats we get the paw problems again. A lot of people on this forum opt for raw, but it is just not an option for us. I will be watching to see what others have to say. Fingers crossed for you! Leah

[pugmomsandy]

You can also feed whole raw fish. I buy sardines that range from 7-10 inches long and were only $1.19 per pound. Also some restaurant suppliers will also sell to the public so you can buy by the case.

[Cyndi]

Ok, since my vet update I’ve been thinking. If I switched Bailey from raw to canned or kibble in the am, does anyone know if I should do it gradually or just start giving it to her? She’s been on raw for about a year and a half. I don’t want to upset her stomach, but she is used to eating alot of different things. Thanks again, in advance for anyone’s help!

[Melissa P]

I cook my dogs’ food. I would not want to feed raw. Sometimes they drop their food out of the bowls and onto the floor. They also lick their paws when their done. My lab likes to wipe her face on the couch and my Brittany wipes his on the carpet. Both of them like to lick their paws when they are done eating. Sounds like a great way to spread salmonella all over the house. There was a small study done by the government that showed the salmonella remained in/on some of the dogs mouths and did not always digest from raw food showing up in their feces. After watching my Mom develop antibiotic resistant salmonella food poisoning, I worry about things like this.

[Cyndi]

Hi everyone! Just back from the vet. She did do bloodwork and is sending it off to check her thyroid. Won’t know the results of that for a few days, BUT, as I expected, she thinks Bailey has a nutritional deficiency because of her raw diet. She encouraged me to atleast, if I wanted to keep her on raw, go with a premade raw like Bravo or Primal or something like that, so it’s already balanced.

I was going back and forth in my head the past few months and thinking I might switch her to a good 5 star kibble in the am and either raw of Freshpet or something for dinner. For the year and a half she’s been on raw, I have been wondering if I’m meeting all her nutritional needs. I know she eats better than most dogs, but I don’t want to risk her health in doing so.

So, until I find out different from the blood test, I’m going to assume it’s nutritional related and started shopping around for the best kibble and just do healthy toppers as well. Thanks for everyone’s help! I really appreciate it!

[Laura P]

Hi,
I’m wondering what the best source for raw meaty bones is? I called a butcher and they only have organs, and not so much in by products (pork necks, chicken necks, etc.). They recommended contacting a meat packer, but wanted to ask what others have done before I go that far. Thanks!

[DogFoodie]

Ensuring that you’re feeding a balanced homemade raw diet is critical. The commercial frozen that you’re feeding is balanced already.

Here are a couple of links that I’d suggest you take a look at to help you decide whether or not you want to pursue homemade raw:

http://dogaware.com/diet/homemade.html

/forums/topic/menus/

You could always consider some of the pre-mixes such as See Spot Live Longer or one of The Honest Kitchen’s base mixes. With a pre-mix as a base, you simply add your own fresh meat and in some cases, oil also.

Here’s some more conversation about using pre-mixes: /forums/topic/vitaminmineral-pre-mixes/

[ella]

I’ve had Ella on a raw diet, using Primal raw patties. The cost is pretty high, about $6/pound, so I supplement with raw meats (chicken pieces with bones, beef, pork, etc.) as well as cooked veggies, like squash, green beans etc.

It occurs to me that I should be able to skip the expensive raw patties and go entirely with human grade meat. Chicken legs are 77cents per pound, I can get scraps of high quality pork chops, both boneless and with bone in, for $1.47 per pound, beef livers are $2 per pound, beef ribs $2.47. So I can give her excellent meat, rather than the ground up, frozen patties.

I live on meat and veggies. IS there any reason a mutt can’t? We’re spending more on the dog to eat than we are on ourselves.

[Lilmonster]

Aww poor Bailey. Hope the vet visit goes well Cyndi!

I don’t have nearly as much to contribute as everyone else already has, but Lily was also shedding/itching a ton before I switched her to raw (that was part of why I took the plunge), and I’ve definitely noticed a decrease in her itching lately so my fingers are crossed that it was the kibble that was causing her issue. I know that doesn’t apply to your situation, but for what it’s worth I did give her a Benadryl at her vet’s suggestion (they told me to give her one 25 mg pill – she’s 40 lbs) when she itched til she bled and then wouldn’t leave the scab alone, and it stopped her itching immediately and lasted for the whole evening. If you do decide to give it, hopefully that will help relieve some of Bailey’s discomfort while you’re figuring out the root cause.

[Melissaandcrew]

Whole eggs-either raw, boiled or lightly boiled. Some of my crew vomits raw eggs, so I boil them.

[Melissaandcrew]

It would more depend on the color of the kibble. My crew has darker brown stool, but most of the foods we feed are a dark brown color, lol, and the raw seems to produce the same. If I recall from a boarder that ate that brand, its a lighter yellow/tan codlor, no?

[Zach M]

Do i add whole eggs, raw or cooked?

[Cyndi]

Yes my vet does know I feed raw, and does NOT agree with it. I haven’t been able to find another vet that does, and this vet that she goes to is AWESOME with her as well as everyone that works there. I really like the place, they just don’t agree with the feeding raw, but they do know.

I’ll keep you posted on what happens at the vet….

[losul]

Cyndi, I tend to err on the side of caution.

Since you are going to the vet, you could wait for results before making any drastic changes, or drawing any kind of conclusions.

Does your vet already know, you are a raw feeder?

[losul]

Hi Cyndi.

Read your post and sorry to hear about Bailey’s problems. This might be far-fetched, but I’m going to put it out there anyway.

After reading what you are feeding and reading others initial thoughts about thyroidism brought something to my mind. Hypothyroidism, is more often the case and Hyperthyroidism (high thyroid) is pretty rare in dogs. I’m not knowledgeable about thyroid problems, but after some research, I found indications that hyperthyroidism can cause hair loss just as can hypothyroidism.

Awhile back, Aimee (thnx Aimee) brought up a study in which certain dogs that were fed raw diets developed hyperthyroidism-high thyroxine levels (dietary hyperthyroidism). It turns out that these dogs were either eating tracheas and gullets or eating other meats that had the thyroid glands inadvertently ground up with them. Anyway that study much impacted me, and it would never have occurred to me if Aimee had not brought it up. At the time I was feeding MPC’s beef tripe supermix sometimes (it kind of sounds like you are using it, and as a staple?). Anyway, MPC’s ground beef tripe supermix has 10% trachea and gullet in it. I was concerned enough that I inquired to Paul about it a couple of times, wanting to make sure they were careful not to include the thyroid gland in the supermix. I wasn’t reassured that it didn’t have thyroid gland in it, so I quit feeding it. I still buy some things from MPC, but nothing with trachea or gullet, and not chicken products for other reasons. Just got a new order Friday, it even included goat gonads ( ouchee).

At first this study might sound like another raw feeding bash, but I see no real apparent conflicts of interest in it., it has happened with humans also, “Thyrotoxicosis factitia, as this is called in human medicine, has been reported in people eating hamburgers containing ground beef thyroid or eating excessive amount of sausages containing thyroid hormones (Malvinder and Sturge 2003, Conrey and other 2008, Hendriks and Looij 2010).”

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1748-5827.2011.01189.x/full

As I said, it might be far fetched, as it seems like other symptoms might be present if it were hyperthyroidism, maybe even weight loss and hyperactivity. But if you were to get her checked, and it would turn out to be HIGH thyroxine levels….. Also know that if it were dietary hyperthyroidism, it is easily reversable.

Cyndi, there is another possible problem I can see. Are you using the pre-mixes such as SSLL with a complete grind- meat, bones, organs and tripe? Those pre-mixes are really designed to use with muscle meats only- no bones or organs. Alot of folks would say that the MPC beef tripe supermix (if that’s what you are using) is (or should be if in right proportions) completely balanced by itself. I would say it should be very close to balanced, and shouldn’t ever have the full supplementation that you are adding with the pre-mixes, IMO. The pre-mixes add all the vitamins/minerals needed in absence of bone and organs. For just one thing an overabundance of calcium/phosphorus, if you are using bone in grinds with the pre-mixes. You aren’t using cod liver oil also, I hope? I think excessive calcium, especially along with excessive vitamin D, can be a cause of hypercalcemia. Parathyroid and thyroid glands attempt to regulate blood calcium/phosphorus.

Whatever it may be, I hope Bailey gets better very soon!

[Cyndi]

Wow! I thought I looked at the ingredients on all those before I bought them, but I guess not. Thanks Betsy! Bailey is/was about 53lbs. (might be a bit more now). She has me trained though, every time she comes in from outside she gets a small treat. Except, when I know she’s playing me and goes out, sits on the deck for a few and comes in and expects a treat. Then I tell her to get a life and go lay down, lol! She doesn’t like any raw veggies or anything, so I’m wondering what I could use for her in the mean time as a small treat when she comes in? & she will go thru an 8″ bully stick in about 45 minutes. They’re too expensive to buy a whole bunch. I do get them occasionally though, and she loves them.

I have also, I just thought of, been giving her Wellness Core grain free food in her kong a couple nights a week when I work my second job. I started using that not too long ago along with Pure Balance wet food. I use a half of one of those little “tubs” in her kong with the Wellness. Geez, maybe it’s a combination of all of that stuff.

My mind has been going nuts, ‘Maybe its this?’ ‘Maybe its that?’ Ugh!!

[DogFoodie]

Hey Cyndi,

I bought some of those Grandma Lucy treats once for my two, but didn’t end up finishing the little bag. The ingredients aren’t great with the first ingredient being wheat.

Here are the ingredients: Organic Wheat Flour, Organic Dehydrated Cane Juice, Organic Sunflower and/or Organic Canola Oil and/or Organic Palm Oil, Organic Cane Syrup, Organic Rice Starch, Organic Blueberry Flavor, Organic Vanilla Extract, Soy Lecithin.

Maybe it’s a wheat allergy?

Here are the Newman’s Own Chicken ingredients: Chicken:

Organic Barley Flour, Ground Chicken, Cane Molasses, Organic Carrots, Organic Apples, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Lecithin), Rolled Oats, Rosemary Extract.

And here are the NV Prairie bacon & apple while I’m at it:
Oatmeal
Barley
Tapioca
Bacon
Apples
Turkey Meal
Canola Oil
Montmorillonite Clay
Ground Flaxseed
Natural Flavor
Mixed Tocopherols (preservative)
Citric Acid (preservative)
Rosemary Extract

I’d also think, cut out the treats altogether and see what happens also. Baileys pretty small isn’t she? I was initially thinking a chicken neck or some other raw goodie might be a good treat when you want to give her something, but I know you don’t want to give her too many calories, especially if she’s gained a bit… or maybe a bully stick. Anymore, my two will make a couple of bully sticks last all week. I occasionally use the Prairie biscuits, but more often use the Instinct biscuits. Right now with Sam particularly, I’ve been using the NVI LID biscuits. He loves ’em.

[InkedMarie]

I have not had allergy testing done & my “problem dog” had recurrent ear infections. My holistic vet suggested my own raw, not a pre made because a lot of them add fruits, veggies and other stuff which may have set him off. I buy ground from Hare Today & Reel Raw. There is also My Pet Carnivore. Something to think about.

[USA]

The dog you see in my avatar had localized demodectic mange when we first adopted him. He was 4 and a half months old. He had a ring of no hair around both eyes and he was itchy. This is pretty common in puppies as they transition from their mothers immunity and develop their own immune system. I transitioned him from the kibble he came with to the home prepared diet all of my dogs get. His immune system developed and held the mites in check without any drugs or medications.

All dogs have mites it’s just that a healthy immune system usually keeps them in check and no symptoms appear. It is possible that your dog will need some help in restoring balance but my first choice would be a home prepared diet of 75% meat (including about 10% organs) and 25% non-starchy vegetables and a little fruit. A good starting book to read on preparing a home made diet would be Steve Browns See Spot Live Longer. All recipes that do NOT contain bone can be lightly cooked or served raw. I would start with lightly cooked while his immune system develops and then if you like you can ease him onto a completely raw diet or continue with a lightly cooked one.

Good Luck with your new addition!!!

[USA]

Hi Cyndi

I’m sorry to hear that Bailey is having issues with her skin and coat.

When did you start using the Sentry Natural Defense topical? Could it be related to the scratching? Below are the ingredients for the Sentry topical. It is almost 15% phenols. Phenols can be very irritating to the skin. Personally I would not use it. The Mercola product is much gentler.

Peppermint Oil 3.00%
Cinnamon Oil 4.50% (phenol)
Lemongrass Oil 4.50%
Clove Oil 5.00% (phenol)
Thyme Oil 5.00% (phenol)
Other Ingredients – (Vanillin, Isopropyl Myristate) 78.00%

A low thyroid is NOT always accompanied by weight gain, lethargy or hair loss. Another possible symptom would be aggression. Maybe a little more touchy or in a bad mood etc.

Some blood tests include a basic thyroid level (T4). Call your Vet (the quack) and ask if a T4 was done and what the value was. It is also a good idea to request copies of all the blood tests that Bailey has done so you can spot any trends that a vet might overlook. YOU are the best advocate for your dog. Also try to get a copy of the blood test that Bailey had before the last one and check that T4 value. If a blood test shows a low or borderline low T4 or a downward trend then a complete thyroid panel should be done to confirm. The good news is thyroid medication is pretty safe and inexpensive.

What about treats? Have you added or changed any lately? Can you give us a breakdown on the treats Bailey gets please.

For a soothing, cooling and pH lowering skin rinse I would get a gallon of Aloe vera liquid and pour out 2 cups of liquid (16 oz) and replace with 8 oz of raw apple cider vinegar and 8 oz of witch hazel. This will help with any bacterial or fungal issues that either caused or were created by the scratching and it will also cool and soothe the skin.

Benadryl 1 mg per lb can help but antihistamines are always less effective in dogs because histamine is not as responsible for the symptoms as it is in humans. The antihistamine with the best track record in dogs is Tavist (clemastine).

Give Bailey a belly rub for me!!!

[nan p]

This is our 2nd Westie. The first lived 12 years. Spent thousands of $’s on skin problems for 9 yrs. When we finally went raw his skins cleared up.

So we started this puppy on raw from day one. She has mostly eaten Bravo Balance and regular bravo with Grandma Lucy’s. She gets tripe and her omega 3’s and digestive enzymes. She still had Demodectic Mange at 7 months. That cleared up with meds.

At 12 months her hair started thinning and she got itchy. Changed food this month to Stella and Chewy’s Duck, Duck Goose. She hasn’t had duck before so thought we’d give it a go. Vet referred us to dermatologist. We go this week. It looks like she is developing Malasseaia dermatitis. I’m very familiar with that from westie #1.

So have any of you had experience with the allergy skin scrape test and allergy shots if needed?

I am doing everything right from day one and this sweet puppy still has skin problems. I’m sure they would be worse if she weren’t already fed raw. Any one else experience this?

[jakes mom]

C4C, I started the conversation about the Fresh Pet cat food, 2 of mine like it and my 19yo hyperthyroid kitty is one of them. The other one that likes it is my 14yo girl who absolutely loves raw. The other 3 prefer basic canned pate. Give it a try, if nothing else, dog gets a new topper, right? Won’t go to waste. Mine like the roasted chicken best, there’s also a chick/beef combo. There’s another variety, called Vital or Vitality which didn’t go over well at my house. I’m talking about the kibble shaped food, have not tried the chub for the cats. I get it at Walmart, Petsmart, or local grocery store. Easy to find. BTW my youngest is 12!
Bobby dog, thanks for the tips about coconut oil, it’s going over very well! Jake loves it of course, and some of the cats will eat it. Dustin (19yo) begs for it. Every little calorie helps with that old guy! lol

[Ryoko M]

I think your homemade dog food is amazing.
About Your dog’s bald spot is not because of food.
Due to some kind of viruses or something.
So… Why don’t you try “cooked ” food not raw sometimes?
When your dogs power of resistance is low,your dog will delighted by warm food 🙂
Good luck!!

[Barbara O]

Ok….maybe trying to do too much….Also….how often are you bathing the dog? This can cause dryness…If it were me, I’d try using the frozen, balanced food, either Nature’s Variety Instinct raw food or balanced raw, frozen Primal….Give the dog time to heal…The problem may just be too many different foods…give the animal time to heel. Sometimes we try too hard to help our animals….as a result we overdo what we feed…Make a decision to use one of the balanced frozen foods and stick to it for several weeks…use just one oil….salmon oil, which is the best for pets…then take a look at whether there is some progress or not…make changes slowly…

[Barbara O]

It seems this year is really a problem. More and more dogs are having, itching, loss of hair, even dry hair. In our part of the southwest, we have dry weather whereas in Texas, my grandson has hot, humid weather…seems the summer is the problem…So…is your raw diet one that you haven’t mixed yourself or is it from something like Raw Instinct or Primal? There is a difference…. Sometimes just waiting and using the least amoount of balanced food can make a difference. I’ll go back and try to find the complete raw diet you’re using…

[Barbara O]

JENNIFER….Who did the testing? What was the testing called? I’m skeptical….you might try to put the dog on a raw diet temporarily…Natural Instinct has a frozen raw food that is balanced…also Primal is wonderful…It is frozen, raw, balanced food. You can look at the different raw meats….Some foods are very hot while others are very cool. My friend has a dog who has all sorts of problems…It has a disease that means the dog can only eat certain foods. She went to the Primal Duck and the dog is doing better than it ever has…She uses an expensive kibble that is human grade and then she uses the Primal…it seems to do the trick…It’s hard to eat a raw diet and have it balanced so if you can, try feeding the raw balanced diet…It might do the trick.

[Cyndi]

Thanks Barbara O. In my second post, I wrote what I feed her. She is on a raw diet and she gets a few raw eggs per week, as well as tinned sardines a few times a week. I also give her coconut oil and extra virgin olive oil when she get the Dr. Harvey’s Veg 2 bowl occasionally.

[Barbara O]

How much quality oil is the dog getting? Most dog foods have to limit the amount of fat they put in dog foods due to danger of rancidity. My grandson’s lab began doing the same thing. They took her to the vet and she was treated for allergies. I sent them some salmon oil and recommended they add a whole raw egg to the diet. She has cleared except for one small spot. I volunteer for Great Dane rescue and we have been having the same problems with the Danes…dandruff and itching. I began feeding the one I have just adopted the salmon oil and a raw egg at both feedings. He is slicking off, the itching has all but subsided and his coat is becoming shiny. He has been on the egg for over a month and the salmon oil was started last week. Please don’t be afraid to feed the eggs. Several years ago I had several orphaned puppies that were brought to me. I lived close to a vet school and was taken courses there…I talked to one of my professors and he recommended I mix a concoction to feed the puppies…this was whole egg, canned evaporated milk and raw hamburger meat. I also added baby vitamin drops. The pups grew, were shiny and had no health problems…
Sometimes keeping the diet simple is the best. Our dogs are canines…carnivores…they aren’t meant to eat a diet of grains and too much vegetables…
I own a genet and he eats Primal frozen raw…It has some ground veggies in it…I’ve been doing rescue of one sort or another for years…dogs, cats, wild animals…almost all have been carnivores….A very old vet told me one time to feed an animal as close to his native diet as possible…this eliminates many digestive problems. So…I feed grain free food…I have to keep the feeding pans around that slow down the eating process for many of the Danes I get…they have been half starved and abused…they eat so fast food can come back up…Amazon has some wonderful stainless steel ones.

Always feed the dry food wet…not mushy….just wet. Have you ever tried to gobble down a sandwich too fast? It sticks in the throat…This happens to dogs…puppies and grown dogs need moist food…In the wild they would never eat totally dry feed…You can add a small amount of raw veggies to the dry food. My doesn’t like the veggies but the other Danes I’ve rescued love them…One ate broccoli and cauliflower as a treat…Also..someone mentioned gas….eating and gulp air causes gas…

[DogFoodie]

I think your plan sounds like a good one. There would be no reason at all not to be able to use the ground turkey from Costco or the grocery store. I think when we keep things simple and the budget isn’t a stretch, we’re more likely to be successful in keeping up with it going forward.

Have you ever looked at the MPC site? You might find recreational and raw meaty treats you like for both pups and kitties. ; ) But, yes, I also agree that it would be much more costly.

[Cyndi]

Thanks for the reply Betsy & C4C. Betsy, why did you send the Mercola stuff back? I wondered if maybe she could be allergic to something in that, but I used it last year too and Bailey was fine. The only thing I started her on recently was the garlic pills, and she was itching and shedding real bad before I started those. The premixes and stuff I’ve been using since she’s been on raw, so I don’t think it’s any of those.

I never thought it could be health related. I think I might have to get her to the vet and have that checked. I did just have blood work done on her not too long ago (when I went to see that quack “vet”), would a thyroid issue have come up on bloodwork or is there a different way they check for that?

Thanks you guys!

[crazy4cats]

No, I never have. I have been taking baby steps with this feeding my dogs and cats better adventure. I use mostly Kibbles with various toppers so far. I have been feeding frozen raw nuggets as toppers for two meals a week though. This will be a bigger step towards home made for me if I do it. I was just hoping to buy a couple pounds of ground turkey at Costco once a week to mix with the dinner mix and add sardines also for their “Sardine Sunday” supper. Would that work once a week, or does the ground turkey I’d get at a grocers not be right?

[Cyndi]

Hi guys, I need some help. I believe Bailey has all of a sudden developed an intolerance to something she’s eating because she has been itching and shedding BAD for the past few months and now I’m noticing bald patches on her sides. 🙁 An intolerance to some food is the only cause I can think of as to why, so I think I should start an elimination diet but I don’t know how. She eats all different kinds of things, how would I go about this? She’s been on raw for about a year and a half now and the only thing new that I’ve given her recently has been goat. I don’t think it’s that though, because I think her shedding and itching started before I started giving her the goat.

Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[Susan]

Hi Vanessa, when I first rescued Patch he’d clear a room, it was awful…I put him on a dog probiotic & changed his food… have a look at the Wellpet Range, they make “Holistic Select” & “Wellness” kibbles & wet, the Holistic Select has a grainfree Adult & Puppy health Salmon Anchovy & Sardine meal or there’s Deboned Turkey & Lentils, maybe he cant handle the high protein so pick a kibble with a bit lower protein….but the Royal Canin is full of crap & probably the same price as a good quaility kibble, make sure you read the ingredients when picking a new kibble & pick a kibble that has different ingredients to the Blue Buffalo cause something is giving him bad gas which isnt good..also try some wet tin foods aswell, kibble is over proccessed & harder to digest, even some nice home cooked meals or raw.. he’s a link to the Holistic Select range
http://www.holisticselect.com/recipes.aspx?pet=dog#category5