[kobe]

Hi HDM and Patty Vaughn,

my berner pup has finally recovered from his diarrhea —i am thinking of switching him to raw food —the stores near me carry
Bravo
Honest Kitchen
Natures Variety
Vital

ARE ANY OF THESE APPROPRIATE FOR A LARGE BREED PUPPY OR SHOULD I STICK TO KIBBLE?

thanks so much,
Kobe’s dad

[InkedMarie]

MurphysMom: you said the worker said the first ingredient is sweet potato; I don’t even see sweet potato in the Meadow Feast, yet alone first in the ingredient list. Regarding meals vs meat, read this: /choosing-dog-food/about-meat-meal/

If Goldens are a large breed, choose a food from HDM’s list. She’s made it easy for large breed puppy owners to choose a food.

[Murphysmom]

InkedMarie, I guess I’m getting everything all confused….I can’t keep all the reasons straight as to why one food is good and one is not 🙁 After seeing the ingredient list you posted, I think her reason was that a “meal” protein product is main ingredient as opposed to an actual product such as “turkey” or “deboned chicken”. So her reasoning was that a non-meal product (ie deboned chicken) is better than a meal product. I do understand that reasoning, but I am going CRAZY trying to get a food chosen for our puppy!!!! Yes, I believe Golden Retrievers are considered large breed, will get to @70 pounds and up. I am wanting to stick with a food that is on HDM’s large breed puppy list. As I mentioned, Merrick looked like a great food, but it’s not on HDM’s puppy food list. Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

[InkedMarie]

Hi Murphys Mom,
Welcome! I don’t know if Goldens are considered large breeds or not; if they are, I urge you to feed a food from HDM’s list.
You said this: “The other food I really liked was Earthborn Holistic Meadow Feast, but a worker at a pet store talked me out of it, saying it’s 1st ingredient is sweet potato, rather than a protein source.”<~~~~~
A quick google search showed that this is the ingredient list of Meadow Feast….no idea why the store employee said that and you can look at the ingredient list as well, on the bag. This is it:

Earthborn Holistic® Meadow Feast™ Natural Dog Food: Ingredients

Lamb Meal, Peas, Tapioca, Canola Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Pea Protein, Pea Fiber, Flaxseed, Natural Flavors, Blueberry Fiber, Cranberry Fiber, Apples, Blueberries, Carrots, Spinach, Cranberries, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine, Taurine, L-Carnitine, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Sulfate, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Ferrous Sulfate, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Beta-Carotene, Manganese Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Carbonate, Folic Acid, Sodium Selenite, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Yucca Schidgera Extract, Rosemary Extract, Dried Lactobacillus Plantarum Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product.

[Murphysmom]

Hello All! So glad to have found this forum, lots of great knowledge! We are getting a 8 week old golden retriever puppy this coming Saturday, very excited! Our last golden lived to 15, we lost him 2 years ago. Amazingly enough, it’s a whole new world in the dog food world for us now…We fed Rusty Nutro Max and he lived 15 years, though it seems that isn’t the best food out there.We want to start off on the right foot with this puppy so are trying to make food decisions. I was wondering about Merrick, looks like a great line, but I see it isn’t included at all on your calcium chart Hound Dog Mom (thank you for putting that together!)….So wondering/assuming the calcium levels are too high? The other food I really liked was Earthborn Holistic Meadow Feast, but a worker at a pet store talked me out of it, saying it’s 1st ingredient is sweet potato, rather than a protein source. My hopes for a food are: grain free, meets safe calcium levels for a large breed puppy, and wondering if I should avoid potatoes as they are “yeasty”, our 15 year old always got ear infections, and wondered if it would be helpful to avoid these. Help save me from this vicious dog food circle I am stuck in! I’d love to hear your expert opinions 🙂 We also can’t afford the way hi end foods….

[UnderDawg82]

I have a male 8 week old Cane Corso and I am unsure of which food to get him. I bought a 30lb bag of Pinnacle Peak Grain Free Peak Protein (All Life Stages) before I even got him. Now I’m unsure if I made the right decision on a balanced dog food because I get mixed reviews of how much protein a dog food should contain for a large breed puppy. Can anyone with some good experience and insight let me know if I made the right decision with the Pinnacle or if I need to just give my bag away and buy a better dog food for my cane corso pup? Thanks in advance.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Congrats on the new pup! 🙂

All the foods you mentioned are great except I would avoid the Kirkland – it’s manufactured by Diamond (poor quality control/frequent recalls). I’d actually recommend rotating between the foods – the earlier you start a rotational diet and get your pup accustomed to a variety of healthy foods the better! 🙂

Grain-free diets are recommended because grains are not a natural component of a dog’s diet. Kibbles containing grains are often (but not always!) lower in animal-derived protein and carry a higher risk of being contaminated with mycotoxins. Many dogs also seem to have food sensitivities with symptoms that subside once they are switched to a grain-free diet. Grains are also inflammatory, contain anti-nutrients (such as lectins) and many (like corn) are often genetically modified. With this said, not all grain-inclusive kibbles are bad. The thing is, a starch component is necessary in kibble. Ideally a dog’s diet would contain no grains or starches but starch is needed to bind the kibble. Starch can be present in the form or grains, legumes, potatoes, tapioca or some combination of these. The thing is, many of the grain-alternative starches carry many of the same negative attributes as grains. For this reason, when feeding a kibble I believe the most important thing to look for is a high level of animal-derived protein – I prefer foods with over 30% protein with over 80% being animal-derived. Two quality grain-inclusive foods are appropriate for large breed puppies that I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend are Dr. Tim’s Kinesis ALS and Annamaet’s Ultra Formula.

[scottNY]

To SadieGirlsMom, I am so sorry to hear Sadie is suffering. She is very lucky to have you, though.

I have a 7-month old pit mix rescue and although he doesn’t have those issues, he is a very picky eater and I have been told that is somewhat typical of pits. I regularly add shredded cheese, green bell peppers or carrots to his food just to get him to pay attention to it. It hasn’t mattered what brand or flavors I have given him – he just seems to be picky. I will say, though, he is more likely to eat after a walk then before. [Make sure you don’t feed her right after strenuous exercise, though!]

There are quite a few other pits at the dog park we go to regularly and we always swap stories. A few things we all seem to agree on are that pits do better with a good, grain-free food. [Since at 7-months my puppy is already at 60 lbs, I just switched to one of HoundDogMom’s 5-start large breed recommended foods.] At the first sign of any stomach issues, we also mix in varying amounts of cooked, plain white rice, depending on how severe the issue. If it is really bad, we just use rice, some shredded, boiled, unseasoned chicken breast and some no-sodium chicken broth added for flavor and smell. I also have been giving my puppy a probiotic daily since he was 2-months old. He also gets a good, canine multivitamin. At the advice of others on this forum I intend to add enzymes and likely green food supplements.

Once you get the right food and the probiotic in her, hopefully the problems will begin to fade. I also found the grain-free food helped the stools and the gas tremendously.

Good luck and please keep us posted.

[lilyh]

Thank you so much for this thread.

We pick up an Field Bred English Setter Puppy next week. The breeder feeds her (and all their dogs) Purina Large Breed Puppy Chow. Think I have finally convinced my husband to switch her off that once the dog settles into our new home (his argument: If it’s good enough for the breeder, why should we switch?). I can just anticipate the resistance when I try to suggest grain-free.

Are there articles about why a grain-free diet is suggested for dogs? Are there any All Stages or Puppy Foods that are not grain-free that people would recommend?

The puppy will be 8 weeks old when we pick her up.

Brands that I am leaning toward are:

Merrick
Fromm
Dr. Tim (not available near me, but can special order)
Wellness
Earthborn
Kirkland Signature

Appreciate feedback and open to other suggestions.

LilyH

[Whitney]

Hound Dog Mom,
Just wondering if you will have a new list out since the Kirklands has been reduced to 3 1/2 stars? And I have a question on Natural Life, It has Min Calcium 1.35% and the calories are 3456.88….so is that even starting too high to look at. I still am confused about the calcium to calories and believe me, I sat and looked at it for an hour or so the other day. 🙂 I think I want to know if there is a Max Calcium level on food that when we see it we just know that it’s too high. Like say 1.5 % or something like that. I know I am confusing you but it’s the only way I know to ask. Thank you!

[shadowfire76]

Just got a new puppy with what we believe to be a pitbull mix a couple days ago. Someone dropped him on a friend of mine and she was going to take him to the shelter but I brought him home with me instead. The vet said he’s about 10weeks old and he already weighs about 20 lbs. The vet said based upon his body frame and the size of his paws that he is likely to be a large dog pushing close to 100 lbs when he gets fully grown. So I am looking for a quality puppy food to feed him. I have been feeding him 4Health Performance Adult food (which I feed my other dog) while I researched what kind of puppy food would be best suited for him. I know it doesn’t have all that he needs but figure it is definitely a higher quality than standard Purina Puppy Chow. A lot of the top dog foods aren’t available in my area but I know that I can get Wellness, Merrick, Taste of the Wild, and Blue Buffalo locally. I see that Wellness puppy is on your list but is that the standard Wellness puppy or the large breed formula? Any advice is greatly appreciated. 🙂

[julez4you]

Help! My 4 month old GD pup is off to a bit of a rocky health start and I need some advice. When I brought him home from the breeder he had just finished his 1course of antibiotic from a case of puppy acne. He was being fed Purina- so my 1st objective was to get him switched over to a better food- but given my experience with Danes and their sometimes sensitive tummies- I played it safe and switched him to GO! which has acceptable calcium levels but is not very high in protein.

About 1 week after he came home he had a horrible episode of blood in his stool- so vet put him on Metronidazole and bland diet while tests came back. Turns out he had worms (dont recall which one but it was long and white when it came out in stool- so she treated him with dewormer.)

During this this time I was also trying to transition him to a higher protein food slowly and tried adding in HK Love or high meat cans. Both ended up producing loose stools even in small quantities, so I decided to try and do a slow switch to a higher protein kibble such as Canine Caviar. After 2days of adding in only a little bit of the new kibble (1/4 of overall quantity) it was like a water hose. At first I thought maybe it was just something in the formula- so I tried NV LID Turkey (again- only tiny amount) and he had nonstop diarrhea that brought us back to the vet and once again, back on Metronidazole and bland diet.

At this point I’m petrified to try anything new in his diet. He’s currently on straight GO! Duck formula and daily probiotic and enzymes. I eventually want to switch him to raw- but with my older dog 100% raw fed, the expense of having a growing Dane pup on raw too is a bit much.

2 weeks ago, he also broke out with a bad skin infection around his genitals- red, pussy, scabby bumps which I’m sure are the end result of his multiple immune suppressant treatments- and fearful at the thought of yet another antibiotic treatment, I’m trying to treat with medicated shampoo at the moment.

I also want to help boost his immune and digestive health more and have a great organic canine wellness blend from a local herbalist, but since I noticed that one of its benefits is joint/ mobility and it has horsetail and oat straw in it- now I’m wondering if I need to be concerned about added calcium this my be contributing? Any thoughts on whether or not I should continue giving it to him?

Also- if you have any tips on diet or skin problems- I’m all ears. I’m trying to do the best for him but seems that for every good intended actin I try to take- I just end up causing him more problems. 🙁

And at 4 months he still hasn’t had his 3rd distemper or rabbies vac because he’s had something chronically going on since.

Please help! Julie and Bentley

[scottNY]

That is absolutely the truth. I should have specified I was referring to high-quality grain-free, for example only those that get 4 or 5 stars from DFA. I just switched from TOTW, which is 4-star, to Instinct Grain-Free Rabbit Meal Dry Dog Food based on what I read here. Since my puppy will be at least 75-80 lbs before he is done growing, I followed HDM’s advice from her spreadsheet for large-breed dogs.

[jamie_aa]

Can anyone tell me what the calcium levels are in the stella’s raw dog food and what ones are appropriate please? Both of my computers are not letting me look up the calcium levels and i just found out that a local store carries this food. yay!

[scottNY]

Hi all and thanks for all the info. I am a little overwhelmed, but hopefully my “summary” question will help others.

I am the proud parent of a 7 month, 60 lb pit mix puppy who came from a rescue. After following this thread, I have just switched his food from TOTW grain-free puppy to the 5-star Nature’s Variety Instinct Rabbit. Thanks, HDM, for the Recommended Large Breed Puppy Foods spreadsheet. It was a wonderful tool!

Now here is where I am confused. I am trying to not go overboard on supplements [limited income] but want to make sure my puppy grows in to a very happy and healthy dog. Now that he is eating five star food, what else does he need? He already takes the Vetri-Science Laboratories Chicken Canine Plus Supplement for Pets, which he loves. He will also be taking the Vetri-Science Glyco-Flex for joints since when he plays and jumps very rough, he sometimes limps a little for a few hours – better safe than sorry. I want to make sure his joints have what they need as he grows.

Also, since following this thread [or a similar one here] I ordered the Dr. Stephen Langer’s Ultimate 15 Strain Probiotic, which amazon.com will deliver today and he will begin it today. So here are my questions, although comments on what I wrote previously are more than welcome, too!

1. With the Stephen Langer’s Ultimate 15 Strain Probiotic, does he get one capsule daily? Open and sprinkled on food or closed?

2. How important is coconut oil? If I give it to him, how often and how much per day?

3. My puppy now eats the recommended grain-free Nature’s Variety Instinct Rabbit, along with occasional pieces of allowed fruits and vegetables twice daily.
A. Does he need an enzyme?
B. I see several people commenting on the Swanson enzyme for humans. I certainly like the cost and I know it is a quality product. Should I get him that, too?
C. If so, again, how much and how often? Is it fine to take out of the capsule if he won’t swallow the capsule?

Thanks in advance HDM and others. I am trying to find that elusive middle ground and I appreciate all your help!

[mrmurphy]

Hi Hound Dog Mom
Many thanks to you and the other knowledgeable folks. I have a 5 3/4 month Bernese Mountain Dog that we got from rescue. He was from a puppymill in NE Oregon and rescued at about 3 1/2 months quite emaciated and full of worms etc. His initial weight was 30#. He was 37 # when we got him 5 1/2 weeks ago and is today 54#. He feels good at this weight but I don’t want to see him gain too much faster.

From a lot of reading I am about to break with the recommendations of the rescue coordinator of the Berner club as well as the advice given by Berner websites on puppy food. They all recommend strongly to limit protein. He was on Canidae lamb and rice all stages with 21% protein. I think the arguments in favor of higher protein make sense and am about to switch him to Great Life Dr E’s grain and potate free Duck formula with 27% protein. Holding my breath a bit as I certainly don’t want to cause him ortho problems by doing so but test it out we will. I do appreciate your info on calcium risks. Do I understand that by 9 mos I don’t have to worry about calcium levels anymore in foods?

I am also thinking of adding in some raw food. Do you have recommendations for a good starting point and how to mix and match eg 1/3 raw and 2/3 kibble.
Lastly do you have a recommendation for a specific probiotic?

Would appreciate your thought on these matters.
Thanks so much
MrMurphy

[TmMura13]

Shadow is my 10 month old German Shepherd mix with diarrhea, demodex mites, demodectic mange, is extremely picky, needs to put on weight, might have a food allergy (possibly needs to stay from birds), is very high energy and has a low immune system. Please keep in mind that I live in Florida and I’m surrounded my national pet store retailers. There are very few small speciality pet store retailers around. Also I would prefer not to order online unless it’s truly necessary.

Shadow – Hill’s® Science Diet® Puppy Large Breed / Dick Van Patten’s Natural Balance® L.I.D. Limited Ingredient Diets® Sweet Potato & Venison / Nutro Natural Choice Limited Ingredient Diet Lamb & Whole Brown Rice Formula Large Breed Puppy Food / Wilderness™ Chicken Recipe for Puppies

We feed him what ever he will eat at the time. This also may include canned food, treats mixed in and even sometimes table scraps.

[TmMura13]

Shadow is my 10 month old German Shepherd mix with diarrhea, demodex mites, demodectic mange, is extremely picky, needs to put on weight, might have a food allergy (possibly needs to stay from birds), is very high energy and has a low immune system. Please keep in mind that I live in Florida and I’m surrounded my national pet store retailers. There are very few small speciality pet store retailers around. Also I would prefer not to order online unless it’s truly necessary.
Shadow – Hill’s® Science Diet® Puppy Large Breed / Dick Van Patten’s Natural Balance® L.I.D. Limited Ingredient Diets® Sweet Potato & Venison / Nutro Natural Choice Limited Ingredient Diet Lamb & Whole Brown Rice Formula Large Breed Puppy Food / Wilderness™ Chicken Recipe for Puppies
We feed him what ever he will eat at the time. This also may include canned food, treats mixed in and even sometimes table scraps.

[CharlieNYC]

Hello everyone,

I’m a total newbie here and I hope to learn as much as I can. With little planning and even less preparation, we just got a 4-month old Standard Poodle puppy 2 days ago. He’s really gentle with our kids and has a peaceful disposition with everyone so we’re feeling very lucky. He weighs about 20-25 pounds, has an Apricot-color coat and seems to be in great health (we’re taking him to the vet tomorrow.)

The person we got him from recommended Purina One Healthy Blend Large Puppy Formula in red bags. After a little digging, I realized that it isn’t a highly rated food at all. I was hoping to get your recommendations for the top couple of foods for our new puppy. Some friends have recommended freeze-dried beef or chicken patties, and some swear by dry foods to help the teeth and gums. At this point, we’re little confused so we would appreciate any help you can give us.

Thanks in advance!

[TmMura13]

Shadow is my 10 month old German Shepherd mix with diarrhea, demodex mites, demodectic mange, is extremely picky, needs to put on weight, might have a food allergy (possibly needs to stay from birds), is very high energy and has a low immune system. Please keep in mind that I live in Florida and I’m surrounded my national pet store retailers. There are very few small speciality pet store retailers around. Also I would prefer not to order online unless it’s truly necessary.

Shadow – Hill’s® Science Diet® Puppy Large Breed / Dick Van Patten’s Natural Balance® L.I.D. Limited Ingredient Diets® Sweet Potato & Venison / Nutro Natural Choice Limited Ingredient Diet Lamb & Whole Brown Rice Formula Large Breed Puppy Food / Wilderness™ Chicken Recipe for Puppies

We feed him what ever he will eat at the time. This also may include canned food, treats mixed in and even sometimes table scraps.

[apriliamille]

Hello,
im posting this here as i dont want to clog up the large breed nutrition where i have been posting and reading.
my dobe pup is 8 months september 5
im looking at two foods. one is called ALS and the other isnt. but the guarenteed analysis doesnt seem that far off (unless im looking at it wrong and splitting hairs and what i think are small amounts really isnt) so what is or isnt in the food to get the categorization
im looking at these two formula
dr tim kinesis als
Kinesis
dr tim pursuit
Pursuit

thanks
hope what im asking makes sense

[TmMura13]

Ginger – Hill’s Hill’s® Prescription Diet® Metabolic Advanced Weight Solution

Gidget – Hill’s® Science Diet® Mature Adult Active Longevity Small Bites / Hill’s® Ideal Balance™
Natural Chicken & Brown Rice Recipe Mature Adult

Angel – Hill’s® Science Diet® Mature Adult Large Breed / Royal Canin GOLDEN RETRIEVER 25
(skin allergy dermatitis)

Shadow – Hill’s® Science Diet® Puppy Large Breed / Dick Van Patten’s Natural Balance® L.I.D. Limited Ingredient Diets® Sweet Potato & Venison / Nutro Natural Choice Limited Ingredient Diet Lamb & Whole Brown Rice Formula Large Breed Puppy Food / Wilderness™ Chicken Recipe for Puppies (What ever he will eat in) He is a very picky eater

[InkedMarie]

Carla,
A opulent of us have had trouble with doggie food.com but we have alo used Petflow.com, wag.com and chewy.com with great success

[EHubbman]

Found a great article I thought some people here could find useful – it’s all about transitioning and starting a rotational feeding plan. 🙂

https://www.tumblr.com/drjeandoddspethealthresource/53858347318/pet-food-transitioning

[apriliamille]

this is hound dog moms calculation just saying so it dont look like im stealing credit
saved one of her posts on her calculations into a notepad doc on my computer

To calculate grams of calcium per 1,000 kcal. do the following:
1) Calculate grams of calcium per kilogram – Multiply the actual percent calcium by 1,000 grams (it’s very important that you obtain the actual level of calcium from the company, don’t use the minimum stated on the bag as foods often contain much more than the stated minimum).
2) Divide grams of calcium per kilogram by calories per kilogram (calories per kilogram can generally be found on the product packaging or website).
3) Multiply the grams of calcium per calorie (obtained in step 2) by 1,000 calories.

For example, if a food states that the actual level of calcium is 1.2% and there are 3,500 calories per kilogram: 1,000 grams X 0.012 = 12 grams of calcium per kilogram. 12 grams of calcium per kilogram/3,500 calories per kilogram = 0.00343 grams of calcium per calorie. 0.00343 grams of calcium per calorie X 1,000 calories = 3.43 grams of calcium per 1,000 calories.

I evaluated the Taste of the Wild Formulas when I created the list and none had appropriate calcium levels for large or giant breed growth.

[InkedMarie]

Hi Carla,
I can’t comment on large breed pups & their needs but can you order food online? If yes, you can order most any food you’d like!

[apriliamille]

is 4health from diamond?

http://www.fda.gov/Safety/Recalls/ucm343084.htm
yes this document says cats but i wonder if the dog food is made from diamond as well
that might help narrow in on the nutritional info

• This reply was modified 12 years, 3 months ago by apriliamille.

[InkedMarie]

Whitney, I just checked all the Grandma Lucy’s foods…all start with a meat protein except the pre mixes which aren’t supposed to have meat. You have to add meat to it.

[InkedMarie]

Whitney: why not order food online? Most places have great prices with free shipping. If you want a list of online places, let us know.

Thanks, Betsy. Hopefully someone can pipe in, I’m pretty clueless with this stuff.

[Whitney]

Thanks for the info Betsy. I will ask the Vet and then look into it. That was very helpful! And April, I thought about that last night and was gonna look again today. I had looked before but then changed my mind because I thought I could deal with the “inconvenience” of driving 45 min. one way. Well I own a diesel truck and I am a homeschool Mom so we don’t have the extra money in the budget to drive to get dog food. Hence the Tractor Supply 4Health brand.I am trying to get Cal. level info on that. They are doing very well on the grain free as far as tummy goes but I am at Wal Mart more than I am Tractor Supply. That is why I wanted to try Pure Balance. They don’t list the Cal. on the bag either BUT I found a phone number. Oh, and what about the Phosphorus? Someone said that there should be certain levels of that along with Cal.? Just wondering.

[theBCnut]

Ringmaster

The Swansons enzymes are fine. Try something like yogurt or canned food in the kong. You can even use some of your kibble mixed with yogurt.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Whitney,

My 15 month old Golden pup has been diagnosed with pano and recently had another slight flare-up. I took him back to the vet (integrative medicine) and she recommended this supplement from Thorne: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005BSN030/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1. I had been giving Sam turmeric, but she said it would be nearly impossible for me to give him a truly therapeutic dose of turmeric, which is what Thorne’s CurcuVET is. He’s up to taking it twice a day right now and it hasn’t been quite one week and I’m working up to three capsules daily (he weighs about 76 pounds). I really believe this stuff will help his pano as I’m already a believer in the anti-inflammatory power of turmeric, but I’m also very helpful that it helps heal his delicate digestive system. Funny thing is, I always shoved capsules into his poor gullet and I have now realized that I can literally just throw it into his bowl and he eats it right up with his food.

Not knowing if it would be appropriate for your pup, you might want to ask your vet about it also.

[apriliamille]

whitney, would it be a possibility to match something up from the lists with chewy.com or petflow.com?

reason im asking unless i missed it somewhere “its just a bit of a drive to costco so i would like something close”
hit 50 dollars on those websites and shipping is free to your door step. opens up a lot more options for food

[theBCnut]

Hi Whitney

Please don’t give her anything for pain before you have the vet look at her, since that may mask the pain and then the vet won’t get a true idea of the severity of the problem.

I don’t think anybody here said to not give her a puppy food. We definitely would have cautiond you to be aware of the calcium level though.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Whitney –

I’m not sure if the calcium levels in 4Health Grain-Free or Pure Balance are okay or not – I didn’t look into these foods because they’re only rated 3.5 stars and therefore didn’t meet the criteria of my list. So if you want to feed these I would suggest contacting the companies to obtain the calcium levels. If she’s still a pup and already experiencing pain I would discuss this with your vet – while it could be an injury it is likely Pano or severe HD (it would have to be pretty severe for the dog to be showing symptoms at such a young age). I would recommend supplementing with some natural anti-inflammatories such as boswellia, yucca, turmeric (curcumin), bromelain, omega 3’s, tart cherry, or white willow and/or high doses of omega 3’s. Now may also be a good time to start a joint maintenance supplement such as glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, hyaluronic acid, green lipped mussel and/or esterified fatty acids. I’d also suggest avoiding grains entirely as grains are inflammatory.

[theBCnut]

Ringmaster

Probiotics are very sensitive to environmental conditions and the conditions that kibbles are regularly under are exactly the ones that kill probiotics, so I always assume the probiotics on kibble are only window dressing, except under very specific conditions. Additionally, kibbles rarely have the variety of different strains that a dog with issues needs.

I prefer the pumpkin be fed with the food for best results. Otherwise the pumpkin is going through the intestines at a different time than the food and it won’t help with food issues.

Earthborn has tubs rather than cans. Natures Variety Instinct is good too. For kong stuffing, I wouldn’t worry to much about calcium levels as long as you aren’t using something that is REALLY high in calcium.

[Anonymous]

Kobe’s Dad: have you considered an intolerance to one of the ingredients in his food? That would certainly cause diarrhea. If there is a kibble he tolerates, even the prescription diet, compare ingredient lists to look for differences. If he hasn’t yet done well on anything, maybe you could try a couple of the limited ingredient kibbles (one at a time!) to look for improvement with the elimination of things like different grains, potatoes, or protein sources. I would give each a couple weeks to look for improvement. Have you tried adding probiotics and enzymes, as I plan to do for my guy with diarrhea per Patty’s suggestion? As far as kibble amounts go, I would take your breeder’s advice as a general guideline only if feeding the same food the breeder was, as calorie counts vary so greatly. If switching brands, the manufacturer’s recommendation based on your puppy’s weight is more useful. And the 6 month cut off seems arbitrary. Consider how much growth happens between 2 months and 6 months – I’m sure he wasn’t close to 80 lbs when you got him! They need to get more food slowly and continuously as they grow, based on their weight and activity level. And 3 cups a day seems very low for an 80 pound puppy. My guy gets 3 cups/day and he is only 20 lbs! If your food is around 400 kcal/cup, I’d expect Kobe to need something around 7 cups a day. I think the 6 month mark is a good time to switch from feeding 3 times per day to 2 times, though; just divide the total amount of food daily by however many meals you are giving. Maybe the breeder feared people would keep the meal size the same and start feeding 1 cup a meal twice a day rather than increasing meal size with the decreased frequency? But remember that they’re general guidelines, and individual needs will vary. You wouldn’t expect 2 of your patients to eat the exact same number of calories, fat, and protein just because both were 55 year old males. And about the vomiting after brown rice: I would strongly advise against getting your dog anything from a Chinese restaurant, no matter how good a restaurant. There is a lot of cross-contamination in restaurants, so you never know what you are actually exposing him to, even in tiny amounts, that could cause problems. A bag of rice is cheap and readily available, and it cooks up easily. For diarrhea I would stick to white rice, though, as it is more easily digestible. I hope some part of this ramble helps.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Kobe’s Dad –

Yellow mucousy indicates that the stool is moving quickly through the intestines and it could be caused by a few different things. It could definitely indicate giardia, it could also be insufficient pancreatic enzymes, increased bilirubin (a breakdown product formed in the liver) or a food intolerace/allergy. “Greasy” stool usually is associated with malabsorption. There’s really no way for anyone here to tell you for sure what the issue is – this really is something that should be discussed with your vet. Your vet didn’t have anything to offer concerning these problems aside from having him tested for giardia?

No one can tell you exactly how much your dog should eat, however 3 cups per day for a 5 1/2 month old dog that’s already 80 pounds doesn’t sound like nearly enough. I start with what the bag recommends and adjust from there based on his body condition.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 3 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Anonymous]

Thanks, Patty! I apprecite your quick response. He has been getting about 3 tablespoons of pure pumpkin twice a day in his Kongs with diced apple or, more usually, kibble mixed in. Why add probiotics when the higher quality kibble is already coated with it? Are there not sufficient amounts on the food, or do you want different strains? I think I saw another forum on probiotics – I’ll have to go take a look. I didn’t mean to imply my vet was totally guessing in her diagnosis, just that she was basing it on my report and not on anything she saw herself. I did think my description was pretty textbook (though they didn’t look flat to me), and I do have a lot of faith in her, but it’s nice when the pros can see it themselves. I will take a closer look at the Earthborn. I originally ruled it out because it was at the high end of allowable calcium for a LBP, but I guess under 3.5 is under 3.5… I would also like to find a good canned food to use in Kongs as a break from pumpkin, but it doesn’t look like Earthborn makes one, and I should probably get the kibble issue sorted out before I add anything else new.

[theBCnut]

Try Earthborn Coastal Catch or Meadow Feast. They are a decent price for a great food. Also pick up some digestive enzymes and probiotics at the health food store and canned pure pumpkin. Give him a heaping teaspoon of the canned pumpkin with all his meals while you are transitioning and for a little while after. Give the enzymes in every meal too, enough that he is getting an adult dose every day for at least 2 weeks after you have finished transitioning. Give an adult dose of the probiotic every day. You can do this any time you transition foods as long as you need to.

You described tapeworms exactly, your vet is not guessing at all. It only takes eating one flea to get them, so they didn’t have to have noticable fleas. And he had to have eaten that flea fairly early on for him to be shedding segments already.

[Anonymous]

Hi everyone. I’m looking for suggestions for my 11-week-old Golden Retriever. He weighs 20 pounds, and is a healthy weight- can feel ribs and see a waist. Our vet says that he looks great, and if we weren’t reporting problems she would think him completely healthy. He came from the breeder at 8 weeks with Iams puppy food for small/toy breeds (!) and we immediately started switching him to Fromm Large Breed Puppy. His stools immediately got soft, with frequent diarrhea and a few incidences of bloody diarrhea. Our vet thought it was stress and treated with metronidazole, which showed temporary improvement but never really got his stool firm. A couple days ago I saw what I thought looked like worms in 2 bowel movements: rice-like, segmented, pale yellow, and profuse! Unfortunately, I didn’t think of saving a sample for the vet until after I’d disposed of it, and the later samples I took in tested negative. Based on my description, and the fact that he has already had Heartgard, they are assuming tapeworm, though at 11 weeks old I’m not sure where he would have gotten them. We visited him weekly from 8 days old, and his mom and litter mates never had fleas, and he’s never been off-leash to eat a rodent! So as of yesterday we are back on metronidazole, plus panacur dewormer, and he’s eating Purina prescription diet EN, which is almost entirely rice and corn, with just 23% protein and 10% fat. Only 18 hours after the switch, his stools are completely firmed up. Obviously we can’t keep him on this long-term, though. The vet said after 5 days we should start to transition back to regular food, and suggested perhaps something with fewer protein sources since the Fromm’s has duck, chicken, fish and lamb. So, in your much-respected opinions, should I give the Fromm’s a second chance, or go to another new thing? I want to stick with one of Hound Dog Mom’s recommended kibbles, but am of rather limited means. The breeder had recommended TOTW, but I would really prefer to avoid anything from Diamond. If environment might suggest another problem, we are in upstate New York. Thanks so much!

[Whitney]

Hi there! I have a Mastiff mix and I have been feeding 4 health grain free because the regular gave everyone gas. She has been doing fine but I want to switch to something more readily available. I bought Pure Balance today, the chicken formula. I was wondering if you think it’s still ok her being a large breed puppy and all? I know, or at least I think that I remember, that you said I should feed her an adult food so she doesn’t grow so fast and have joint issues. Just want you opinion 🙂 And she is having some aches and pains on occasion, in her hips. Should I give her some joint juice or something. Doggie aspirin?? Thank you!

[Saireah]

Thanks! Yes, it is the only Dr. Tim’s food that I’ve tried. I didn’t try the grain-inclusive formula. That’s an idea. They have similar first ingredients and the grain-inclusive Kinesis is 2% higher protein than Fromm’s Adult Gold.

My only concern with Fromm’s Puppy Gold is that the calcium level is higher — 1.37% as-is and 1.47% dry-matter (vs. 1.16% and 1.24% respectively with the Adult).

I do normally try and feed a wet food topper, as well.

I’ve just never been able to get my 2 year old on a food that settled well with her — she’s been on Nature’s Recipe (ugh, I know) and that worked great but was low quality, Taste of the Wild, Acana, and then Fromm’s.

Perhaps I’ll try the grain-inclusive Kinesis and see how it goes? I do like how their stools are with Dr. Tim’s.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Saireah –

Fromm Adult Gold is labeled for all life stages – so it would be fine to feed a puppy. Personally, however, I would feed the Fromm Puppy Gold to both your adult and puppy if the sensitive dog tolerates it as it’s higher in protein. The ingredient lists are very similar so I wouldn’t think there would be an issue. Is the grain-free Kinesis the only Dr. Tim’s food that you tried? Did you try any of the grain-inclusive formulas?

[Saireah]

HDM: a few months ago, we talked about converting my 8th month old mastiff/lab mix to Dr. Tim’s GF Kinesis. One of my main purposes for this transition was to also put my 2 year old lab/vizsla on the same food as him.

He’s doing fine. In fact, they both love the taste. However, Quinn (2 year old) has been chewing her feet like crazy since she transition 100% over to Dr. Tim’s (3 weeks ago). She developed a rash on her stomach and I actually took her to the vet to get her on steroids as over-the-counter wasn’t working. Additionally, they gave me a pill to help with the itching prior to the steroids, but that also did nothing.

At first, I thought it was her allergies flaring up. She had to be put on steroids last summer. However, she had lasted all of the summer (June and July) without any itching while on Fromm’s Adult Gold. The reason I believe it may be the food is that she’s also thrown up twice since I started feeding it to her.

The basis for the background question is this:

In your opinion, can I feed Riggs (now 10 months — will be one year in mid-October) the Fromm’s Adult Gold? Note that I said Adult Gold, not Large Breed Adult Gold.

Quinn just hasn’t done well on any grain-free food that I’ve fed her. Acana, Taste of the Wild, etc. May be too rich for her. She did fine on Adult Gold — it’s just that I wanted her stools to be a bit firmer. That’s why I decided to try and make a household swap.

Would really love your feedback as I find it valuable. Thank you very much!

[Tigerlily]

Well that is quite frustrating that I was given incorrect information.

I am quite familiar with standard poodles and all too aware and educated on the genetic predispositions in my breed. Also, in general, those of us who are knowledgeable and involved in the breed consider them to be a “medium to large breed” and we are careful to promote slow and steady growth to avoid orthopedic issues. I have always been careful to feed foods with moderate calcium levels to my puppies. That said, because poodles are closer to the “medium” end of the spectrum (or should be, in my opinion), I am sure that my precautions are just that – precautions.

I am not going to entirely rule out the two Acana formulas, but I am pretty happy with Dr. Tim’s at the moment so I may consider the grain inclusive version of Kinesis for the puppies. If puppy owners are reluctant to order online, I can suggest they feed Fromm Chicken a la Veg. Or, heck, maybe I’ll just raise the puppies on the Fromm. 🙂 A large percentage of my of my poodles’ diet is raw, but at this point I do plan to raise the litter on kibble.

On another note, does anyone know how to add a photo above my name?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Tigerlily –

Generally, dogs that are expected to be 60 lbs. or more at maturity are classified as large breeds. I’m not familiar with standard poodles or their genetic predispositions, but if you’re planning on breeding a litter these are issues you should be knowledgeable about prior to breeding. I’ve spoken with Champion’s reps several times concerning the calcium levels in their foods (Acana/Orijen) and the values on the package are not the actual calcium levels. The max calcium levels in their formulas deviate by 0.2% – 0.3% from the stated minimum. The actual would fall somewhere between the minimum and maximum values. Even if 1.3% was the “actual” calcium level (which it’s not) the food would still be too high in calcium.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 3 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.
• This reply was modified 12 years, 3 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[lojo]

I’m still in the process of sorting this out so I don’t have answers, only anecdotal info:
I have been feeding my gsd blue buffalo large breed chicken since I got her 2 years ago. First the puppy formula then adult. No problems at all til the last bag I bought in early August 2013. Explosive and persistent diarrhea the day after I started feeding her the ‘new’ food followed by vomiting.
I started feeding her real rice, chicken and carrots to ease her pain. Then while transitioning her back to the blue buffalo by sprinkling it on the ‘real’ food, the diarrhea started again. To be clear, I don’t know for sure blue buffalo is causing the problem. I am just a person with a dog, not a food testing laboratory. But she is highly monitored – we are always together and hasn’t eaten foreign or domestic poop, objects or greenery.

After reading about others with similar experiences on this forum , I thought I should add mine to the list. Blue Buffalo is denying any change in their formula. My dog gets sick when she eats it. I hope yours doesn’t.

[Tigerlily]

That’s my thought process, but just the same, slow and steady growth is important to avoid orthopedic issues.

I actually called Champion Petfoods a month or so back and spoke with a representative on the phone who told me that the “minimum” was the same as the “as fed” due to the fact that the food is sold in the EU where labeling requirements are very particular, or something to the effect of that.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by Tigerlily.

[Tigerlily]

What is the formula for calculating the mg. ca per 1,000 calories? I would like to see exactly how much calcium is in the food. At 1.3% calcium and a cal:phos ratio of 1.2:1 I am not sure that I need necessarily discount Acana Chicken and Burbank Potato for my future litter of poodle puppies whom I expect to mature in the 40-50 lb range (medium to large breed).

My other choices are Dr. Tim’s Kinesis (grain inclusive) or Fromm, though for a few reasons they are not my top choices.

Thanks! 🙂

• This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by Tigerlily.