[Bobby dog]

Hi C4c:
Among other things that is one of the drawbacks of Purina, not only do they add fish to just about all cat food, they also include the bad K3 in just about every recipe they make for cats and dogs. 🙁 I have found a few canned dog foods without K3.

Jakes mom:
Sounds like he had a good day! What size of dog is he? I lightly boiled the gizzards and hearts and Bobby is happily eating them. I froze most of them.

BCn:
I am going to keep an eye out for pork, lamb, goat and beef necks too.

Akari:
Did the cat get fleas from your dogs? Or is this as you wrote a preventative measure?

[Akari_32]

I did, and I really like the sounds of it! I think it actually does more than Trifexis. We have no problems with Trifexis, either. Bentley does get tired and lethargic after taking it, but bounces back and is just as annoying as ever in a few hours. Haley has no reactions to it at all. There are risks with any meds (and even natural remedies), human or animal. You’re not gunna know until you try, but don’t go try something you aren’t comfortable with.

I actually just found a 12 month box of Capstar for the cat on https://www.budgetpetcare.com/ for less than $40 after a coupon code. Whoo! I’ve never used this site before, but for $36 I guess I’ll give it a try lol (its also good for dogs, but only kills fleas).

[Naturella]

Jan, Marie, Patty, Carolyn – thanks so much for the advice and input. I am now going to have to consider between the 1-year boosters or go the titering way from this year. I will consult with the vet and the hubs. Also with the price, lol. But yeah, Bruno’s birthday and early history are very unknown, so I don’t even know if he had access to his mom’s milk, or for how long. It is possible that he may have come from a breeder because I once saw a dog approximately his age, looking JUST like him, in a PetLand, where most dogs come from breeders. I don’t know what that may mean for him though regarding being with his mom and immunity. Also, Bruno was found by some house in bushes, with serious fleas and an infected cherry eye. My hypothesis for his early life is that he may have come from a breeder and either been born with a cherry eye or gotten it early on, and thus been let go on his own once he reached a decent age to have some minimal chances of survival, because he would have a low likelihood of being bought with a cherry eye… IDK, this is a total guess, he may have come from anywhere really.

But yeah, I will abide by the law and vaccine for rabies when I need to, and I really do want to titer, I just need to see if I will start this year or next – I don’t want to give him unnecessary vaccinations, just the bare minimum he may need, so we shall see.

But thank you all once again – you all have been so helpful!

[Akari_32]

I’m looking at oral flea preventions for the cat, and I’m wondering about this Program stuff. He currently weighs about 10.5 pounds, and he’s maintaining that very well. It goes from 1-10 pound doses to 11-20 pound doses. Cat apparently don’t weigh 10-11 pounds. Which one should I get?? Anyone have any other suggestions on cheap but effective oral flea preventatives?

[Akari_32]

Didn’t think so… We need a good flea prevention down here. It’s terrible! And none of the common topical flea meds work. I bought a cheap $10 4 pack of some Sentry flea stuff and it worked better than Frontline and Advantage did, which is pretty sad. Still didn’t work all that great, though. Trifexis is the best we’ve had for fleas, but $300+ a year is just too much.

I’m gunna look into that cedarcide stuff! Sounds interesting.

[Nancy C]

A few thoughts, as I am studying this topic as well. FYI I have given my 10 yr old golden retriever the little round garlic capsules from Whole Foods-pinkish label. One in AM and one in PM. I drop it in her food bowl. We live on a wooded lot in NC and I have NEVER seen a flea on her! I studied for 6 years for a PhD and my chair was the founding president of the American Holistic Medical Assoc, a former Harvard Neurosurgeon, BUT VERY BIG ON avoiding chemicals and pharmaceuticals whenever possible (which can be most of the time actually). He is very informed on holistic remedies, incl homeopathic, and says HE uses a product called CEDARCIDE on his several dogs for ticks and fleas. Says it’s great and it works! He lives in Missouri also in the country/ woods. It’s sold at Amazon by the quart but you can get a better deal by ordering a gallon. My container arrived yesterday and I have already sprayed it on the dogs. It has a cedar-ish fresh smell. Dr. S told me he just sprays and rubs it into the fur a couple times a week. Reviewers swear by this stuff. It’s called “BEST YET” by Cedarcide. And it is super – SAFE! My doc advisor does not put the chemicals in his dogs either. I have not asked him about heartworms but I will. Someone ELSE Who has several dogs and who I respect told me there is a product called PBG-51. The link to the site is http://www.firstchoicenaturals.com/resourcearticles/parasitesbegonefrom mypet.php. I am told that this product is not advertised for heartworms for legal reasons BUT it protects against them. I am studying that now as would like to get OFF Sentinel. I used to give my golden Sentinel only half the year. Two yrs ago my vet sat me down and nicely chewed me out saying the dog is vulnerable in NC all year around. So I promised I would keep her on it. Last thing – I am the one who has the GSD who was 18 mos in jan and wandered into big digestive troubles trying to transition him to Origen then to ACADA — several of you have helped me so much. I have discovered in this awful experience with all his loose stools and diarrhea that a flea/tick collar I bought at the vet (Solesto – made by Bayer) is probably one of the culprits for my Shepherd’s digestive disorder. The DAY after the vet’s secretary fitted Axel with the collar he had diarrhea IN the house and IN the yard. Everywhere he went the entire weekend diarrhea was falling out of him. I was going crazy. Two weeks later I realized that it was NOT the HILLS nasty WD Rx dry food he was on that caused this sudden diarrhea– geeze that stuff is like eating HAY and no way could he have the squirts on it. I had just started giving him a little Science Diet Sensitive Stomach. BUT I bought that collar as I went out the door at the vet. It HAD to be the collar. I looked on line and found that among all the LOVERS of the collar there are some detractors as well whose dogs also had bad diarrhea. So watch out about that collar!
That’s all I know for now. PS: Cedarcide gets rid of all insects, including BED BUGS!!
Nancy C

[theBCnut]

No, Ivermectin does not get fleas, and it doesn’t get all the major worms either.

[Akari_32]

I use Trifexis and it works great, but it’s soooo expensive! I do know about all the problems it’s caused, but Haley has no issues with it. I’d love to see about cheaper (and safer) options, though. I’m just a poor college student after all lol I have thought about using just ivermectin. Not sure if that gets fleas as well as worms, though.

[Cyndi]

I would never use trifexis. I’ve read about alot of dog deaths because of it. I think there is a thread here on the forum & I was just reading a facebook page earlier about trifexis & all the stories of people who’s dogs have died after using it.

For heartworm I use a product called Value Heart, recommended by HDM. Its just ivermectin (sp?). For fleas I give Bailey garlic, I use diatomaceous earth on her, I also use Mercolas natural flea & tick spray, & I just recently started using Sentry natural defense flea & tick (or something like that). Bailey got a few fleas last year, but I was able to get rid of them before they got too bad.

[Carolyn P]

My dog was orphaned at 1 week of age.

I got her the initial puppy vaccinations and one rabies vaccination AFTER she got over being so sickly (she was almost 2 when she had her rabies vaccination).

I do not vaccinate my dogs and titering is $295, which I don’t do either. I **may** consider rabies only for the reason that IF by some bizarre circumstance my dog was bitten there is no cure for rabies, only euthanasia. I couldn’t live with myself knowing that I “could” have done something to prevent it. But again, it’s really unlikely they would ever be bitten by a rabid animal.

I also don’t treat for fleas/ticks and I do heartworm testing only (May and November), I don’t do heartworm medication.

I also don’t do lepto, kennel cough, etc. I don’t believe in poisoning my dogs.

I have a dog that was vaccinated for rabies twice in a 2 week period in error (no longer go to that vet). I believe he now suffers some ill effects from that.

I don’t buy into the vaccinations.

[Naturella]

Hello, all!

So, I figured I would ask – what do you all give to your dogs (if anything) for the ailments in the topic? When we got Bruno they told us that Trifexis was the most complete pill, for all them worms (treats and prevents), and kills adult fleas. Well, he was on that till March, when the vet decided that he had plateaued on weight and will probably never leave the 11-20lb segment. So they told me I can no longer buy the individual Trifexis, but only 6-month supplies at a time. So I went online (for financial reasons) and was about to get him some Trifexis, but I saw another drug, Sentinel, which claimed to also treat and prevent all the worm types and kill flea eggs (not adult fleas). It was also cheaper by like $100!!! So we got a 6-month supply of that. Bruno had his first April pill with no problems.

Well… My question is… Is it good enough? Is it really comparable/better than Trifexis? Do I need a complete pill or can I do the twice-a-year shot for Heartworm that my friend does for her dogs and not worry about fleas and such? What about topical anti-flea solutions? Do they work, are they good for the dog? My cousin was saying that he thinks it is much better to put chemistry (topical anti-flea stuff) on the dog than inside (pills that make his skin toxic to fleas), but he’s never had a dog. And what about Heartgard? My roommate uses it, but I think it’s just for Heartworm…

Basically – is there a “best” combination, and what is it, or what is it that works for y’all?

[Naturella]

This is hilariously crazy! LoL! This reminds me of the link Akari32 posted on how Purina’s reseach shows that dogs are BUILT to eat grains. Insanity…

So odd, I don’t even recall our vet discussing nutrition with us except one time, when I mentioned I feed grain free and got the “there’s still carbs in it though” lecture, which I knew, but was within limits and ok. I think I only will be seeing the vet and techs once a year for his shots, since he plateaued weight so we shop for his heartworm and other worm-and-flea medicine online now.

[pugmomsandy]

Just because a dog is “senior” doesn’t mean it has these problems. All those problems can potentially happen at any age. I’ve fostered many dogs under 5 (even as young as 1 yr) with joint/eye/digestion/ear issues and have needed hip/knee surgeries and prescription eye and ear drops. A healthy senior can eat regular food (adult, maintenance and all life stages, puppy food). I have a 14 yr old with no active health issues. He is blind and deaf which he was already when I got him last year at 13. He is not on any medications and eats the same foods as all the other foster dogs I have. I use 3.5-4.5 star kibble and top it off with 5 star canned foods which is normally at least 43% protein. He even gets some raw food which I usually make without any plant matter. The dogs get joint supplements and vitamins, antioxidants, supergreen supplements and fish oil. My personal dogs don’t get chemical pesticides which has been linked to some cancers nor do they get unnecessary vaccines. You might want to research “over vaccination”. Try looking up Dogs4dogs dot com, b-naturals dot com, wholedogjournal dot com, dogsnaturallymagazine dot com. These are just a few of the sites pertaining to more “natural” care of dogs. If one of my dogs had late stage kidney disease, at that point I would change the diet, but I wouldn’t change the diet just because they’re a senior in general. Some things possibly connected to cancer is chemical laden commercial kibble, vaccines, the constant application of poisonous pesticides (heartworm and flea/tick meds, fertilizers), even air pollution.

http://dogs4dogs.com/

[Inge F]

Our little Scotty will be 5 months old by the 19th of this month. We purchased Wilderness Puppy food, which she loved, then my husband felt that BLUE buffalo would be a better choice, therefore we mixed it half & half. When we got her (Maddie) she did nothing but scratch. The Vet treated her for a skin infection. The 2nd time she was treated with possible food allergy. Now she may have a urinal infection. We have no idea what kind of dog food we should purchase. Do you have any suggestions?
This Tuesday we are getting a 2nd opinion about her scratching. She has no fleas!

hank you, Inge F

[Steven M]

I have not tried Divovite yet. I have 2 year old Bullmastiff that has been on Taste of the Wild/Bison pretty much since I rescued him (had him on Blue for about a month, the foster had him on a raw diet for a month and I have no idea what he was eating before)…He seems to be having food allergies, but can’t tie it down to one thing that he is allergic to. When he stays at the sitter’s for more than a day, he comes home licking and rashy. The first time it was small red bumps everywhere including his ears, eyes and jowls…The second time it was hot spots and the dry flaky bumps that others have talked about on this thread. Both times the vet prescribed antibiotics. The first time, he got a steroid shot and some eye and ear cream too…the second time I had to go to the vet twice and the second time he prescribed a second antibiotic and a steroid boosted antihistamine…and said that I could give my dog up to 15 Benadryl a day for the rest of his life. I agree with all of you that think that meds for life is ridiculous. I don’t think I want to go raw with his diet either. I am willing to try Dinovite, it isn’t that expensive for a 90 day supply (for my 120lb bully, $1 per day)…

I want to add this though- those concerned about diatamaceous earth need to do more research on it. I’ve used it several times all by itself to kill fleas. Non-food quality is used in pool and hot tub filters, food quality is used by farmers in their livestock foods to help fight intestinal parasites because it is actually crushed shells and corals and it cuts the parasites skin and causes them to dehydrate. Many sites will recommend it all by itself as a treatment to your pet’s coat to fight fleas and you can add it to food by itself for the same reasons farmers use it. I’ve never heard it being referred to as a “binder.” And to the post talking about the ingredients to the solvents and poisons including H2O, RIGHT ON man!!!! People are so worried about “chemicals” they can’t pronounce, but most people would not have any issues eating an egg…well you know eggs are chemicals and if you looked at the chemical make-up of an all natural egg, you wouldn’t be able to pronounce them either (Ovalbumin, Conalbumin, Ovamucoid, Ovomucin, Lysozyme, Avidin, Ovoglobulin, Ovoinhibitor) and that is just for the whites of the eggs….

[DogFoodie]

Hi kvee,

I wanted so badly to use an alternate methods of flea control this year. I purchased Mercola Natural Flea and Tick Defense, which was later recommended by my integrative vet also.

But, my primary defense was to be Springtime’s Bug Off Garlic. I chose the granules, which is just garlic; but, they also make a chewable with other ingredients. Sadly, my dog with some food intolerance issues had a reaction and I wasn’t able to continue the product. I know plenty of folks here have mentioned that they’ve used this product with amazing success. If you have concerns about garlic, visit this link and be sure to click on the “studies / etc.” tab for lots of great information and studies about giving your dog garlic: http://www.springtimeinc.com/product/bug-off-garlic-dogs

[Nancy C]

My 10 year old Golden Retriever went 8 or 9 years taking GARLIC and NEVER NEVER had a flea. I bought the Whole Foods little round Garlic capsules (pink label) and dropped one in her morning and night bowls and she ate it with the food. NO FLEAS EVERRRRRRR. How easy.

Then my vet put her on Sentinel. It covers fleas. So no more garlic. Check on the health of garlic for dogs before you consider it. I read about it in a HOLISTIC DOG CARE BOOK. It WORKED FOR SURE. And is cheap and I think safe. She is 60 pounds and healthy. Check and be sure it’s healthy first – never know- they’re always finding out bad things about what we think is Good. Otherwise, believe me, it WORKS.

[kvee]

Hello,

Susie is about to turn 10 months! I don’t want to put her on any commercial flea treatment. Miraculously, she’d never had any issues with fleas. She was fresh and clean when we adopted her from a high-kill county shelter. Anyhow, has any of you kept your pooches from those flea meds? I am hesitant to use anything, I’d like to think that whatever is going on with Susie is a deterrent for bugs. You know, like some kids dont catch lice but others do?

I’ve read many things, from the Mercola spray, to lavender oil, to ACV with the mother in their water.
What are the effects of ACV to a dog if daily consumed?

Thank you in anticipation.

*I apologize if this was already brought up, I was scratching around the forum and didn’t find anything*

[Bobby dog]

Awwwwwww! Mom’s worried about the kitty she gave a trial month to getting lost and now wants him microchipped? Sounds like someone has a permanent home! lol I have a feeling Bentley and Gary are going to become good friends, especially because they are close in age and probably will be partners in crime.

I know I wrote this before, but Bentley is absolutely adorable!!!!

How is walking Gary on a leash coming along?

Did you get your HW/flea meds? I had one idea for you if you didn’t get them yet. Maybe the Vet that you like, the one that doesn’t sell monthy supplies of these meds, will fax a prescription to the Vet that will sell monthy doses. Let your Vet know it is due to your budget. Hopefully, your Vet will understand your dilema; after all he is in the business to make sure everyones pets’ are happy and healthy. You never know, maybe your Vet will change their office policy and sell monthly doses to you after you explain your issue.

[Susan]

The Adaptil collar isn’t a collar where u attached a dogs lead, it just goes around their neck & lets off phermones, they look like the red flea collars but are grey, you attached ur lead to his harness not the Adaptil collar, in America you may have a different name for these calming collars… Ive never used one but they are big in Australia instead of people using drugs..You still do their normal training & use the Adaptil collars as well to help ur dog with their anxieties, fear & phobias…

[Bobby dog]

Hi Akari:
What a great Goodwill find!!!! It sounds like he is learning how to walk in his harness well. I used to work with a guy that took his cat out for a walk on a harness daily.

I love Bently and Gary together. They are sooooo cute! Bently is really a cute dog.

I don’t use the meds you mentioned above so this may be a silly question, but will your Vet sell you a months supply of flea & heartworm meds? My vet will sell heartworm and flea meds by the month if needed; it helps if you are short on funds or for any other reason. She will also sell weekly supplies of other meds that she dispenses if she is able to. Also, have you checked online to see if you can get a better price? You would just have to get your Vet to write a prescription and fax it to them. One other thing to check into is the companies that make these meds sometimes offer rebates on their websites.

[Akari_32]

So we went to Goodwill today, and picked up a mesh cat harness, and a (surprisingly!) brand new break away cat flea collar– in sexy male kitty purple. I want to put him on Comfortis, but I can’t afford the $100-something it is to get him a 6 month box of it. I’ve already spent almost $300 on him with his antibiotics and neutering, and another $230 on Haley today getting her shots and Trifexis. $600 in a week and half is more than enough for me, considering I only make about $230 a week…. Had to dig into my savings AND my double secret savings AND my dog food money (good thing I’ve got about a months worth of dog food put away lol) to pay for these animals. They’re lucky they’re cute!!

Anyways, I have a video uploading of the cats first experience with his harness. I’d like to take him outside on one of the FlexiLeashes at some point, and get him some outdoor fun. He’s always trying to get out. I think he misses having the freedom to roam. But, he took having the harness put on much better than I thought he would! He’s also good about not outright scratching, which helps a lot when torturing him for his own good lol He just pushes with his paws, and uses his claws more for like traction, rather than to injure (i feel his claws, but they don’t hurt). The only time he’s ever actually gotten me was when we were playing, and I was a little too slow to get away lol The biggest problem was getting the thing over his fat head LOL I didn’t think it would fit at first! Bentley came over and started picking on him, and got him to lighten up and play little bit, though, so he had a chance to have a good interaction while in the harness. So as soon as thats done, I’ll post it. Its pretty great lol

[Paola G]

Hi, I have a 10lb Rat Terrier that I adopted from ASPCA at 2 years old, she is now 7. I had her on IAMS ProActive Health, that was the food she was on at the pound, for about 3 years after I got her and never had any issues. Then one day I decided to change her to better quality food and she was doing well until 8 months ago when she started having these small bumps on her skin on the back that would become dandruff and were very smelly,no flea/tick bites. Then eventually the flakes/dandruff stopped but she now has these red spots on her belly and on her “armpit” that look very dry and itchy and she still smells. Took her to the vet who put her on Hills Prescription Diet for two weeks, gave her a cortizone shot and changed her shampoo to a prescription one, she got a little better but the rash did not go away. I’m keeping her on Hills Grain Free food and I’ve been changing her food for the past few months to no avail. Her demeanor/energy level never changed and her appetite hasn’t changed either. The groomer suggested the I give her Benadryl but I don’t want her to be groggy. Does any one have any idea what this could be? Thank you!

[Bobby dog]

Hi C4c:
I was thinking about it, but I haven’t looked into it yet. I have never tried any garlic supplement or fresh garlic for them. I suppose since flea season is just around the corner I better get on it!

Have you ever given garlic to your kitties?

I know the cat that will eat anything will probably eat fresh garlic. He likes the meatballs I make for Bobby and they have a good amount of garlic (and tumeric) in them. I am just not sure about the other kitties.

[Bobby dog]

I am using 2 cloves of fresh garlic, sliced about 10 minutes before feeding, three days a week.
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/garlic-for-dogs-poison-or-medicine/

I used to feed Bug Off from Springtime to my horses years ago when I boarded them. When I moved them to my home, I stopped feeding it. Two years of having the opportunity to be around them 24/7, I never saw any difference with bugs and ticks. I use fly predators for the barn area, groom them daily to check for ticks and use an herbal bug repellant spray now.

Last summer I used the Bug Off tablets for Bobby with no success. However, I still want to give fresh garlic a try especially since I changed his diet. I am hoping since he is healthier and does not have that yeasty smell the fleas might not be so attracted to him and the garlic might have a chance to work. If I could get away without a chemical flea preventative I would be a happy person.

I still will be giving Bobby his Ivermectin for HW prevention. I usually use Frontline Plus during flea season only. So I guess I will see how a fresh and healthy Bobby that smells like garlic does during flea season this year. If he starts showing signs of attracting fleas, I will have Frontline on hand to use.

That was a good deal on the Purina One canned! FYI, I was on your coupon website last night and they have a link to Eagle Pack coupons posted under pets. That is a sister company to Wellness. It is a $1.00 off two cans of Eagle Pack canned dog food and $3.00 off dry dog or cat food. They also had Sheba cat food coupons.
http://printablecouponsanddeals.com/Category/pet-products

Poor kitty. Sedated cats only ever went two ways for me. They either have slept it off with no problems or were freaked out and needed my complete attention until the seditive wore off. Good luck tomorrow!!

[Akari_32]

For the dogs canned food, I honestly just get what’s cheap. The Pedigree was free (3 big cans), the Purina One was on clearance at PetSmart for 70 cents each, and I have coupons for $1 off 3 cans, the alpo was 94 cents after BOGO sale and coupons (I got like 10 cans of that), the pro plan was free lol Haley needs canned mixed in her dry or she can’t eat very well, and gets upset tummy. I split a can between Haley and Dweezle, it’s not a big part of their diet, so I don’t worry about it too much. If they ate more of it, I’d be looking for better ones, but I figure it doesn’t hurt. They grew up on all the nasty stuff, as it is lol

How much are you givng for the garlic? I’d imagine it keeps mosquitoes away, too? Flea and heartworm prevention is sooooo expensive!

Oh, and expect some good stories of drugged kitty tomorrow LOL The vey said no food after 8 and no water after midnight. I don’t get off work till 8 anyways, so I gave him a big can of wellness, and that’s all he gets! He doesn’t drink, but I’ll take up the water dishes anyways.

[Bobby dog]

The pic is adorable. I love when they help out and lie on top of or get into things we are working on! He looks very happy and content. Very nice stash by the way!

I saw that Pedigree peaking out of your stash. Pedigree is actually what brought me to this site. My Vet sent an e-mail to all her clients about illnesses she had been treating that could have been avoided with better nutrition. She made up lists of suggested foods and what to look for in foods. I saw I was feeding my cats poorly. Then I looked into Bobby’s food and found I fed a good kibble, but not good canned; I was feeding Pedigree. So I went on a search and found DFA.

Bobby was yeasty, smelled like a bag of fish flavored Fritos, was scratching all the time, and had a red groin and tail area. I always put organic coconut oil on him, gave him baths once a week during flea season, and used a flea med but was fighting a losing battle. It never dawned on me to look into his diet. A month after I stopped feeding Pedigree his skin problems were almost gone. He is sensitive to fleas and still had small red bumps from bites, but his skin condition was 200% improved in my eyes. I mostly feed 4Health and Pure Balance canned now, you can’t beat the quality for a $1.00!

I just started a fresh garlic regimen for Bobby trying to stay ahead of flea season. Since he is not a smelly and itchy mess I am hoping he will not attract the fleas like he has the past two years. Fingers crossed!

I also saw the Purina One for dogs in your cabinet. I have been slowly putting together a grocery store list of canned foods based on ingredients alone from Purina (like the Pro Plan and One list I made for cat food). The only “One” variety that made my list was the Classic recipes. The Tender Cuts in Gravy contain meat by-products, wheat gluten, corn starch modified, soy flour, and added color. The ingredients I don’t like in the Classic Round Recipes are meat by-products and carrageenan. Neither line contains chelated minerals (I look for that in food) but the Classics would work for me if they have coupons or good deals on them. Here’s my Purina One canned dog food list if you’re interested:

Purina One Smart Blend Classic Round Recipes canned – non-chelated minerals, meat by-products, and carrageenan in each recipe:
Beef & Brown Rice
Chic & Brown Rice
Lamb & Long Grain Brown Rice
Turkey & Barley

My mom knows I have been changing my dog and cats diets so she started picking up Purina food for me with her coupons. At this time in her life the only outing she makes is to the grocery store; she is a coupon queen in her own right. She could not remember what I look for in pet food so I decided to work on a grocery store list for her. I do love and appreciate that she is thinking of us so the least I could do is make it simple for her!

[crazy4cats]

I didn’t know that ear infections could be due to food intolerances. Hmmm… Interesting. My previous dog never really had any problems with his ears and my current two have not either at 2 1/2 years old. I guess I’m lucky in that respect. We just have the digestive issues so far. I think I’m going to eventually order the granules. Right now, I’m giving them fresh garlic three times per week. I’m thinking that might not be enough through the flea season. Betsy, if you want me to buy them from you if that turns out to be the culprit, let me know and maybe we could work something out.

[Jasmine W]

I have a greyhound mix who seems to have the same things your dog has but not as bad. Leo had very bad hot spots though. A friend told me chicken allergies are super common in dogs. Seemed ridiculous but apparently since many dog foods contain beaks feet and feathers aka “chicken by products” or “fillers” well dogs who’ve eaten these dog foods even once can develop a chicken allergy. When I had Leo on a grain free chicken free formula he had loose stools and a runny nose still but less itching and no swelling around tick or flea bites. He got so much better that I let him have chicken treats. This seemed ok so I bought the grain free blue buffalo wilderness chicken formula and now he’s sliding back again. He even got some hot spots again and hadn’t had any for years. So we’re going back to no eggs no chicken no duck no turkey, no poultry of any kind. Try that and let me know. Also dairy products even yoghurt can cause a runny nose and “runny rear.”

Leo gets a homemade dog food meal separate from his kibble meal. He gets a pound of ground beef freshly cooked and drained of fat plus a quarter can of “tripette” green tripe and “Solid Gold Seameal.” He’ll take a bit of ground up frozen peas with this meal but if I put too many peas in it he won’t eat. I’m concerned he’s getting too much protein. He won’t eat pumpkin. I’ll try the beet fiber. I know the tripette is making his coat soft because that’s what it did for my friends dog and before eating tripette Leo had a rough coat. Tripette is amazing stuff. I don’t really know what good the Solid Gold Seameal is doing but its filled with vitamins and minerals.

[Shasta220]

Catherine, Earthborne is a good brand. RC and Hills really are very very low in quality, so I’d just stay where you are with food.

Oh geez, that’s horrible about the ticks! I’m so fortunate to be in an area where parasites are minimal. When I first got Shasta as a pup (he was a giveaway – like those puppies you see for free by the corner of Walmart.), he had horrible worms (he had horrible living conditions…his mom actually died of the simple roundworm), so we gave him some wormer. He has had 4 ticks in his life so far. None of our other animals have ever had a tick. The dogs rarely suffer from fleas anymore since I sprinkle a little Borax underneath their kennel bedding, vacuum regularly, and give them regular baths. The vet tries to make me feel so guilty for not giving them preventatives, but I’ve heard all those nasty stories about reactions to those chemicals. I’d rather stick with my routine since it doesn’t seem to /not/ work.

[Naturella]

Patty and Shasta,

I can’t believe how much I learn, every day…

So, I think Bruno is medium-haired. His coat is thick, and lays pretty flat. Could it be wiry if it lays flat? Or does it have to be kind of unruly-wavy-like?

I don’t know about the flea-bite allergy – when he had the fleas and sores, another couple was taking care of him at the time. But it is possible. Like I said, he sometimes scratches, but not too much.

And ok, so I just grabbed the dog (gently, lol), and stroke his fur the opposite way of growth. All over. I see NOTHING. His skin looks white, and in his black patches I see NO dander at ALL.

When my roommate said he has too much dander was right after Bru was raked with the Furminator, so I would assume that that scratched his skin and got the dead cells up and out. Well, today he is as clean, soft, and smooth as can be. So I will just continue my regimen of coconut oil and sardines, maybe just make it so that I give smaller doses more often. And use the Kong Brush once a week or so, just to keep the shedding down. But with that, I will pretty much not take to heart just about anything this dude (my roommate) tells me about my dog. (I was going to say “ignore” instead of “not take to heart”, but you never know, and in that one time out of a million, he may say something true/right… So I will keep an ear out and a polite nod in stock, but not much more unless I see reasons for it.)

Anyway, thank you all for the patience, tons of knowledge, and help! You all are awesome! 🙂

[theBCnut]

Long haired chihuahuas have shorter hair than some shorthaired large breeds, so you can’t just go by length. A shorthaired toy breed should have hair under 1 inch, so he might be medium haired. Both JRTs and Rat Terriers can be wirehaired which is longer than shorthaired. You will have to be the best judge for our purposes. Even a medium coated breed would benefit from the rubber kong brush, they just grab long hair too much, of course that may be what you need at this point.

If he is very sensitive to flea bites, to the point where he has given himself sores in the past, that could be the cause of the dander. He could have very sensitive skin and have a mild allergic reaction to flea bites. Unfortunately with bite allergies, one bite can trigger a reaction that doesn’t completely go away for a week or more.

As for what is too much dander, at any given time, I can see a couple flakes on my completely normal dog, but it would be odd for me to see enough to be sure where it was coming from, or to see more than just a few flakes at one time on his whole body. BUT, some dogs do naturally have more dander than that, so if you aren’t seeing a bunch of flakes every time you rub his fur the wrong way, then your “expert” may just be overreacting.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by theBCnut.

[Naturella]

Shasta, thank you as well! You know, I think his hair is less than 2 inches for sure, so I guess he is short-haired. Also, he wouldn’t usually scratch himself, I think I have seen him do it no more than 3 times/week… I don’t know if that’s a lot though. I do know that in the past, he has had a serious flea infestation, with falling-off-fur and skin sores. All of that is cleared up now, but could the pet dander be a remnant of that, along with the occasional scratching?

Also, sorry to be too technical, but what is too much pet dander? Right after brushing you could easily see it on his black spots, but after the bath, I REALLY have to look for it… I wasn’t really concerned, but my “dog whisperer” of a roommate said something about it, so I had to make sure I am still on top of doing what’s best for my baby.

Also, when you say anti-dandruff shampoo and conditioner, you mean dog ones, correct?

[DogFoodie]

So, is the consensus that it’s safe to give Bug Of Garlic daily during flea season? I plan to start it this week and the recommendation is to give it daily.

Even though we still have snow on the ground and in the forecast and the high today was 17 degrees, I am a person of faith and I truly believe Spring will eventually arrive!

[losul]

Sorry about the delayed responses.

InkedMarie, Thanks for posting. I did find the link you provided helpful. Helped me to realize more, that while it is a really scary and serious thing, but that there is a difference between being HW positive and lower levels of worms and having significant HW disease. It also got me to thinking more about using some supportive supplements.

Shawna, again, very helpful links, not just about timing for seasonal HW preventatives, but also other things. Thank you. I’ve never posted a pic of Turbo yet, but it’s on my to do list as soon as I get caught up on things. Because of the cumulative effects, I guess the advantage multi could be started a little earlier than the others and stopped earlier for using seasonal HWP. But it’s also because of those cumulative effects and the added and unwanted flea killer, that I doubt I will use for HWP, beyond using for treatment. I also noted in your second link that advantage multi is not often even used during treatment.

I’m also thinking now that it is still senseless for me to give Turbo HWP’s year round. (once he is HW free). Even if I up the dosage months to 9 or 10 months, a break of 2 or 3 months from it, is better than no break, and shouldn’t be any risk of infection anyway during the coldest months.

Aimee, I agree 100% with your critical thinking in the the case of Mr. Piggy/Dr. Falconer.
Not so sure either about his “homeopathic” remedies, i.e. sulphur, calcarea carbonica, graphites (is that actually given internally?)

I also got to reading some other alternative treatments elsewhere such as black walnut extract, wormwood, etc. Some of those seem would be as/or more so, toxic as conventional drug treatments. But I think I will start using some garlic.

Update: Turbo had his X-rays Wednesday. The vet went over them with me, and in general thought they looked pretty good. He didn’t see anything at that time that would cause him to downgrade him from class 1 to class 2. Although he did have some things he wanted the visiting radiologist to look at and review (the heart) when he comes in again, I think on April 8. The lungs looked mostly pretty clear and pulmonary arteries he thought looked pretty good. I’m definitely leaning towards a slower kill protocol (rather than the harsh immiticide, steroids, and painkillers, and the vet seems fine with that, although he is still adamant about continuing with the Advantage multi, rather than ivermectin, me I’m not entirely sure Advantage multi will be as effective as ivermectin on fully mature worms, according to what I have read. Also if not going with immiticide, he wants to get going on the doxycycline sooner. He is saying just 2 weeks of doxy. Most of what i read says 4 weeks, or pulsing it. I also told him I had a 2nd HW test done that indicated low antigen, and that that vet thought it indicated lower worm load.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by losul.

[Naturella]

Shasta,

This is amazing that your lab has had such a turnaround! It is so amazing to see and hear success stories of better food, so I am always ecstatic to see my friend who switched to good food.

As for my other friend, I took her to my favorite store today, and they hooked her up with over 15 samples of 4-and-5-star foods for her old rottie who has been on Beneful and Pedigree so far… She was happy, I was beyond excited, and I can’t wait too see which one he likes/does on best, and which one she gets. I think she should incorporate a joint supplement in whatever she feeds anyway. But I think we’re on a good track there! Hoping for a smooth transition and great results. Also, I did recommend to her to start with may a 3- or 3.5-star food first, and then go to a 4- or 5-star one.

Shasta, I would have never guessed you are a teenager! You rock! 🙂

And also, I agree with both Shasta and aquariangt – although some people feed Beneful and the sort because of price, it is true that good foods can be found for much less online or at clearance/sales racks in pet stores/boutiques. But I can understand how uninformed people can suffer from commercials and misinformation, and I also believe that once they are open to at least checking this website out, they will also get hooked. Like with Shasta, that’s what happened to me. I just stumbled upon it googling something, and bam. That was it for me. I just wish people weren’t so headstrong about what they choose to feed and at least entertain the idea of learning something from someone else… My roommate, however, said to me, after I had had Bruno for about 2 months – “You have had a dog for how long, 2 months now? What do YOU know about dogs. I GREW UP around dogs and have had my own for over 3 years now.” Then it was clear to me that he just wouldn’t ever take anything I tell him, and, sadly, even his vet recommends this site, and other foods (NOT the SD), but he would still not listen, or research so meh… It is what it is.

And another dog that I take pride in being put on good food is my own. When Bruno was first found, he had the worst case of fleas the vet had ever seen. His fur was falling out, and he had patches of sores and wounds all over. The couple that found him (the second ones; the initial “founders” did not even give him food or water for 2 days before the other couple visited them and took the puppy from them) did a great job de-fleeing him, having him dewormed, given food and water, and a good safe space to live for a while until found a forever home (that would be us!). They had him on Purina-Something and he looked fine (I wasn’t able to tell he had fur missing before), and only had 2 scabs left from when he had sores. It wasn’t until we got him on Blue Buffalo Wilderness that his fur got really shiny (that’s when I realized it had been dull before!), and he started growing fur on his tummy (I thought it was supposed to be bare, not that it was actually missing fur!). So good food helped my little guy too, and like others, at first I did listen to the pet store associates and even my roommate (the Science Diet guy), but even then, I preferred grain free and higher protein food, I guess by instinct. So once I found this site, I have never looked at dog food again, let alone any grocery store’s pet aisle, lol.

[losul]

Hi Dori, I’m doing a little better, thnx, and Turbo’s O.K.

My agony peaked when the hard realization came that it was my fault, I already pretty much knew it, but I think it helped to finally get it out. It’s been a little more uphill now.

The fleas, i don’t know what to say. You’re situation with the fleas/insects in the area, and having several dogs is different than mine. Shawna and the others could suggest some alternatives vs. using chemicals, if you can or want to go that route. I don’t really know what I would do for sure in your situation.

I don’t use anything on turbo at all, haven’t had any problem with them here. I didn’t intend to use anything on him at all, but he’s already got insecticide on, or in him, now from the advantage, and I hate it that fact. I can’t really see keeping him on this very long because of that. I always figured if fleas become a problem here, I would only deal with them then, but not before. I know we have/had chiggers in the yard, several years ago, I had a bout with them, itching badly for several weeks. Never had a problem though on Turbo knock on wood. We have alot of ticks here, but again i don’t use anything on Turbo except some body checks, and I wasn’t always diligent about it. I only found I think 2 crawling ticks on Turbo this past season, until that last embedded one him that somehow survived through several bouts with hard frosts and cold weather, and I didn’t find until after it had been feeding for several days. I found more ticks than that on myself, seriously. Maybe some of them were crawling off Turbo and on to me. I hate it that he got worms, and now I hate that i have to give him all these harsh chemicals to try to make them go away. I think Turbo is young and healthy enough to come through it, but I still worry about damages and longer term consequences.

X-rays are set up for next week, and I agree, they will definitely be worth having done.

Hang in there with Katie, i think your determination will get it all figured out!

[Dori]

Hi Losul. First, how’s Turbo doing and have you been able to calm down a little? I hope so.

I really appreciate that in the midst of what you’re going through you’ve taken the time to get info for me and pass it along. I came out at the same conclusion that you did but you have no idea how gratified I am that they are your findings also. I’ve been doing a lot of research also on the different HW meds since Turbo was diagnosed and decided that since I have to do something, and living in the South, I will do it all year long long.

I do have another issue that I’m really taxing my brain over. I know a lot of you don’t like the idea of HW med that includes the flea ingredient. But living here in Georgia we have a lot of mosquitos, and fleas. Because we don’t normally get cold freezing weather for enough days in a row (this winter being the exception) nothing, and I do mean nothing, seems to die. I’ve gotten mosquito bites myself in the dead of Winter here. Fleas are pretty much a year round thing. Ticks? Not so much. I need some thoughts on my situation and my girls. Do I go with just the HW med or HW and flea? I’m mostly concerned about Katie getting flea bites with all her allergies she would probably have a pretty bad reaction. Good Lord! I sometimes feel this will never end. I go to sleep thinking of all these issues and wake up with the same thoughts wondering “Did I actually fall asleep?” or has these been some really long nights. Of course, if it’s not only these issues then there’s the food issues (allergy dog to food and environment, scents, you name it she can’t handle it). Then there are the supplements. Katie has started scratching again, no change in food, no fleas or anything on her. I started removing supplements one at a time for a couple of days and it seems she’s not doing well with the Mercola digestive enzymes. The other two are doing fabulous. I didn’t know they could have a reaction to digestive enzymes. I swear this little girl is going to have me pulling out what little hair I have left. Shawna referred to Katie as a delicate flower. I wish those were my kind thoughts of Katie. But she’s so damn cute, sweet, and with all her issues she’s just the happiest “go with the flow” little girl I’ve ever had the pleasure of having in my life. Not to mention it was because of her that I found this site (whilst pulling some hair out, mine, not hers) and my other two girls have been the beneficiaries of this fabulous site and my goto fabulous/wealth of knowledge posters. Thank you again for being so caring not only about your dog but all dogs. Some of you posters are so amazing.

[Akari_32]

So this dog is back to scratching like crazy. I’m wondering is it’s more of a pollen thing…? Cars are litterally covered in yellow dust, and my fish ponds have yellow Inge around the edges– it’s disgusting! He’s much worst this year than he was last year, and my allergies are terrible this year as well (I might as well have a cold at this point, because at least it would be over soon!).

I’ve been wiping him down with baby wipes, and I bathed him that neosporin stuff once, and he’s got flea stuff on, so he doesn’t have any fleas on him. His feet are the worst, and his knees and thighs are pretty bad too (everywhere he comes into contact with grass, basically). There’s an empty lot with about 40 pine trees behind our house, which is the main source of the areas pollen.

If this is the case, there’s really no way around it, other than potty pads or a potty patch thing inside, and our house is so small that there’s really no where to put either (besides the fact that both if those options are pretty disgusting lol). Or we could just constantly run Benadryl on him and get cortisone shots every so often …

[weezerweeks]

He does get ticks sometimes during our walks but I check him as soon as we get home and take it off. I do use a shampoo and conditioner called herbal defense organic I also have the herbal defense spray too and I spray him when we leave to walk.I order it from the natural pet store.so far no fleas.

[losul]

The moxidectin component of advantage multi topical, supposedly is rapidly absorbed through the skin within 30 minutes into the subcutaneous fat layer. The flea component supposedly stays within the dermal cells and takes much longer to spread through the dermal tissues, the way I understand. They should have left the flea insecticide completely out of it. As it is, it’s another thing to be concerned about, and that I really know little about.

Evidently the moxidectin component is highly lipophilic, meaning 1. showing a marked attraction to, or solubility in, lipids.
2. having an affinity for oil or fat.

“Actual preventive products may perform differently.
Table 2 summarizes important differences in heartworm
preventives. Properties such as unique pharmacologic
behavior could result in improved efficacy. For example,
moxidectin is a highly lipophilic molecule, resulting in
higher drug concentrations and delayed elimination from
the host. Moxidectin in the Advantage Multi® for Dogs
topical formulation achieved high concentrations in plasma
(15.1 µg/L) and maintained levels at or above about 12 µg/L
for the 30-day treatment period. More importantly, consistent
administration of moxidectin (Advantage Multi® for Dogs) to
dogs for 4 or more months resulted in a continuous presence
(steady-state; approximately 36 µg/L) of moxidectin in
plasma.8 Product properties such as these may prove to be
important for effective heartworm prevention.”

See pages 8-11. See also the tables and chart. Note; this comes from Bayer Pharma’s own website, and by the Dr. Byron Blackburn, who I think has financial bias.. Regardless of any bias, I think the article still has some good information.

http://www.bayerdvm.com/show.aspx/canine-heartworm-disease-blagburn

[weezerweeks]

I have the best vet and he tries to help me with food but he admits he needs to know more. He wants me to do what’s best for my animal. He knows I don’t like or use flea protection, steroids,etc and he works with me. In fact he’s thinking about taking an acupuncture course in Fl. which will cost him $10 thousand dollars. Love my Dr. Mac.

[losul]

Melissa, I too wouldn’t yet consider the proheart as preventative (at least not until it can be proven better), after treatment, and I totally hate that the advantage multi has the flea insecticide with it, I don’t want or need that at all. The vet keeps telling me how it’s only toxic to the fleas nervous system and nothing else, but that’s kind of going in one ear and out the other with me.

I might be using the multi during and several months after Turbos treatment, not entirely sure just yet, but I will have to really think about and study it more as to giving as a future regular preventative.

Thnx for the input!

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by losul.

[Melissaandcrew]

I just wanted to comment on Avantage. I have never used the muti nor would I due to the moxidectin. For me after the proheart issue its a drug I won’t consider. Even without the moxi, i will not use spot on flea and heartworm in one products. My concern here is how can I be sure the vector used to cause the heartworm preventative to be absorbed into the blood stream is not also carrying in the flea meds? I don’t want anything extra in the bloodstream.

I never used Advantage or any other products containg imiclopramide (spelling) either until last year when some of those products were given to me. I figured what the heck and gave them a try for one month. One week aftef using my doxie got spayed and it was the only time I feared losing a dog from the anesthesia. This dog had clear bloodwork prior to and ivs during as a “just in case”…it took her 3 days to eat/drink afterward (and a visit back to the vet in the meantime for more fluids etc) it was tbe longest spay recovery I have ever experienced. Perhaps it was coincidence but it was enough for me to toss it out. It ws d the one that did fleas and ticks only.

[losul]

Betsy, Thnx much, all the words and support definitely helped me get through my initial shock and panic stage. I made the mistake of watching that video the other day, Dr. Turner I think, where he surgically removed 86 1 foot long worms from that poor dogs heart, and all I could think was I wanted those friggin things out of Turbo NOW.

I should have been paying more attention to all the talk a few months ago about the HW preventatives. I think it was on the off topic thread and went on for a week or two. I’m going to have to look for that discussion and read it.

I was lame to think I would just casually keep doing what I had been doing and my dog wouldn’t ever get heartworms. As much as I hate it, once Turbo is cleared I will probably have to keep him on preventative year round, on the full dosage, and maybe even checked 2X year, I can’t ever risk this happening again. There are alot of mosquitos here, I’m considered within the Mississippi valley, and part of my property is within a flood plain, actually the majority is now included in the flood plain, since they remapped after the Great Flood. Probably the mosquitos aren’t near so bad in your area.

Shawna, I hope I can manage to make the right decisions going forward. Thnx

About the Dr Byron Blaghorn that my vet mentioned. I found that yes he has an impressive bio, but I wasn’t so impressed by the study he conducted. The study was limited in size, they tested 4 different HWP’s and found that Advantage multi was the only one that had 100% efficacy against 1 certain strain of HW larvae after a single dosage. Apparently that strain has never again been found in the wild, and apparently it was not even the supposed resistant strains found in the Mississippi river delta and valley. The study was paid for by Bayer Pharma and I understand that the Dr. also received a fee from Bayer. Bayer publicized this study ALL over the place, but they didn’t publicize the fact that all 4 HWP’s had 100% efficacy after 3 doses.

I’m not sold on advantage multi. And I don’t like the included flea insecticide. I get so much conflicting information, which do I believe?
I can’t find any info on multi and doxy alone being used in a slow kill method, and not sure on it’s effectiveness at weakening/killing adult worms or it’s actual reliability to clear microfilariae. So much conflicting info. Plus I’m not sold on it’s safety. Is it better to use a drug that accumulates and builds up in the body (moxidectin) or one that does it’s job quickly and leaves the body rather quickly (such as ivermectin)?

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by losul.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Losul,

I just wanted to say again how sorry I am for all that you and Turbo are going through. I can’t imagine being in your shoes. Shawna sounded very encouraging in her earlier post, so I’ll offer all that I can, which are my prayers that Turbo’s treatment goes smoothly and that he makes a full and speedy recovery.

I also want to add that you’ve inspired me to be more consistent and vigilant with my dog’s heartworm prevention. I was bad about keeping track of when I had administered their doses, etc. I decided a short time ago to use natural products for flea prevention this year and had been previously using Trifexis for one dog and HeartGuard for the other. The Trifexis was a bad experience, so I was reluctant to use it, but it was paid for. Although we still have a foot of snow on the ground, with more on the way, I’ve already planned to have them tested the last week of March and talk to my integrative vet about her recommendations for the HW prevention products she feels are best for my dogs.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I’ll eagerly read this thread and especially your updates.

[Akari_32]

About the fleas, yes we have them. In the yard, usually. We treat the house with Sargents Flea Breeze (works really well, actually), and the dogs gets their Trifexis usually. We just so happened to run out of Trifexis as it’s getting warmer out, so the fleas are making a come back and moving right inside on the dogs at the same time :/ I bought some cheap topical stuff today. That’ll hopefully help some. I don’t have very high hopes for it lol the hardest thing about getting these fleas under control is out neighbor is major red neck, and has like 40 dogs, 62 and 20 people living in their 2 bed one bath house (ok, it’s more like 4-6 dogs, 5 or so people, and 2-3 cats, but close enough).

[losul]

I just found this about advantage multi. So maybe it is a good/safer product? Also compares some of the others.

“Advantage Multi

Moxidectin is a remarkable substance that is both safe and effective as a heartworm prevention. Advantage Multi is a topical solution for application to the pet’s skin once a month.

It is the only heartworm prevention that may be given to heartworm positive dogs.
It is the only heartworm prevention that is effective against all strains of heartworms identified.
It is the only heartworm preventative that kills early L5 or young adult heartworms.
Advantage Multi is a combined product of Moxidectin which prevents heartworms and controls intestinal worms (hookworms, roundworms and whipworms) combined with imidacloprid which kills adult fleas. I recommend Advantage Multi as the best Heartworm Prevention Available today. It has a broader range of effectiveness against the life stages of heartworms and is also effective against more species of intestinal parasites as well. It is safer than other products in the same category and can be given to puppies at 7 weeks of age and to heartworm positive animals. There is a new concern that heartworms are developing resistance to heartworm preventions. See this article that compares Advantage Multi to all the other common heartworm preventions.”

Heartworm Prevention Dogs

Also found info on heartworms, treatments, etc. here;

http://www.heartwormsociety.org/pdf/2014-AHS-Canine-Guidelines.pdf

[JeffreyT]

Yes, the theBCnut, you have a point about treating the actual heartworm. It is a higher dose of heartworm meds plus an antibiotic. But my precautions (flea/tick spray, not going out dawn/dusk, etc) should ensure I will not have to make that choice.

Marty Goldstein DVM (and many holistic vets) believes heartworms are less of an epidemic than the disease causing toxicity of heartworm meds. I lost a dog to cancer and swore that I’d do everything possible to avoid repeating that nightmare.

If I chose to do meds I’d probably do the low dose Safeheart medication.

[losul]

I just discovered Tuesday evening that our dog Turbo has heartworm infection. It came as a huge shock, as i thought I was being meticulous with his care and his diet. Almost as bad, I am probably to blame for it, and I am sickened and upset by this. I was using
Heartguard+ chewables. I was trying to minimize his toxin exposure, so I didn’t give year round, just for the approximately 7 months mosquito season, and every 35 days instead of 30. Also, because Turbo is 34 pounds and I had the box for 26-50lbs, I was only giving him 2/3 of the chew. Lastly I was keeping the HG in the refrigerator, and now I found out that HG isn’t supposed to be refrigerated and they can’t guarantee the efficacy when refrigerated. I just called them and reported the case to them, telling them all the truth about the situation.

I don’t want to write our life story, sorry about the lengthy post, I’m just trying to get all the info out, so I can hopefully get some good advice to help me make the best decisions. Turbo is approximately 32 months old, 34 pounds, a boston terrier mix, we think maybe mixed with staffordshire or pit, but almost certainly mixed with some kind of bully type. We adopted him from our County’s Animal control about 1.5 years ago. He spent somewhere around 1/2 of the first 14 months of his life in 2 different sessions at the County shelter, and evidently 1 session at a City shelter. It was the first dog we have had in about 7 years, after having had many previously, for most of my life. We were out of the loop on most things dog, so I got very studied up on it, wanting to do things as right as possible, before we even started looking for another dog. I knew the type ( boston terrier or mix) I wanted and knew that I would put him on a raw diet before we even got him, and so be it, within 3 or 4 weeks we had him on about a 60% raw, 40% commercial diet, with no problems ever, except some gas for awhile.

Turbo is very handsome, charming, and playful, but can be rude, stubborn, very assertive, sometimes defiant. We love him the way he is, he’s always been a joy, and no real problems at all, except some assertion/agression (not fearful aggression) towards certain dogs, usually only the largest dogs or bully types. He’s completely different (quirks) than any other dog we’ve ever had, but for us, he’s really a perfect fit, and is always well behaved in the house.

We’ve been in search of a great dog Vet since we got Turbo. Tuesday’s visit was the 4th different vet. I had set up an appointment ahead of time for his upcoming rabies shot, and to test the waters with a new (and hopefully permanent) vet. In the meantime Turbo had a really strange and scary issue that happened Saturday evening and lasting into Sunday. An hour or so after he had his Saturday evening meal, and totally not typical, he began “hiding” in a corner of the house, or he would go to either the basement door or the back door. We take him through the basement into the garage when we go in the car. He goes out the back door into our yard. He also started very visibly trembling, looking very sheepish, and scared. He would not take a treat at all, so totally untypical of him. Once outside, he did not want to come back in at all, wanting to lay on a chair on the deck instead, even though it was quite cold and he doesn’t like cold for long. We’d make him come back in only to do the same again. Sitting in the corner at the end of the hall or at the basement door or the back door. He acted like he just wanted to be out of the house and maybe even away from us, seemed afraid of me for no reason, and the trembling hard, very scary. So not typical, Turbo has NEVER been fearful of anything that I know of, but he just did NOT want to be in the house at all. I eventually took him for a short car ride, and he seemed to have perked up some. So we got back into the house just a little bit reluctantly. He then took a treat fairly eagerly, but after taking a second one, he suddenly just dropped it and ran away to the corner again. The trembling and strange behavior again too. We nearly took him to the emergency clinic. It later subsided though, and eventually he went to bed right beside me, where I watched him the rest of the night. He seemed to sleep well. Next day, just a little more of the same scary stuff, and then he ate his typical raw morning meal. Soon after eating he started acting better throughout the day (Sunday). He never vomited nor had diarrhea nor showed any obvious pain through the whole ordeal.

Baffled, I spent most of Sunday researching the trembling symptoms. Nothing seemed really to fit at all, but I was concerned about problems like kidney/liver. I contemplated all sorts of things such as Lyme or tickborne illness ( he had a tick on his ear that I didn’t catch right away, it was November and we had already had several hard freezes. The tick left a pea sized nodule that lasted about two months. Friday evening he chewed on a cow hoove awhile until I took it away from him, because he had broken off a rather large sharp shard. Saturday morning he had his typical raw meal, but his evening meal was not quite as typical. Usually he gets 2/3 cup kibble matched with 1/3 of a can food, or 3/4 cup kibble and an egg, or sardines. This time I gave him less than 1/2 cup kibble + about 4 ounces of canned salmon + 1 egg cooked in coco oil, and i added about 1/2 t of nutritional yeast. i think I’ve added a very small amount of yeast to his raw mix before, but not completely sure. So thoughts of a bad reaction to the yeast also came into play, along with thoughts of too much fat at once. Even the thought of a ghost in the house came up.

Monday morning I called the vets office an\d told them I thought we needed to put the rabies shot on hold, and instead get him checked and do some blood work to get to the bottom of this. Tues evening: I explained everything to the techs and the vet as best I could, even that I home prepped over 1/2 of his diet. He asked me what I was feeding him and I told him him briefly, just didn’t come out and say”raw”, but I think he knew it. He didn’t ask if raw and seemed satisfied with what I was feeding and supplementing. This
vet spent alot of time with us, well over an hour, didn’t admonish for anything, wasn’t arrogant in the least, didn’t “push” anything , and so far I think I like him O.K. He examined Turbo and was pleased with his apparent health. So he didn’t push any lab work at all. I still elected to go with an outside lab wellness blood work, along with an in house tick borne illness and heartworm check.

I was floored when they came back and said he was both pos on the antigen and microfiliae HW tests. He was negative on the tickborne. He explained the clinic’s HW protocol; 1) monthly HW preventative for 2 months prior to treatment, and continuing throughout treatment and beyond. 2)Doxycycline. for 2 weeks prior to treatment.3) first immiticide treatment (injection); dexamethasone injection, tramadol injection. Hospital overnight, strict confinement until returning for next treatment.4) doxycycline again for 2 weeks prior to immiticide treatment. 5) 2nd immiticide treatment. ( 2 injections 24 hours apart), dexamethasone and tramadol injections given daily with each treatment. Hospitalized for 3 days and 2 nights. strict confinement at home 30 days 6) Heartworm check 6 months afdter last immiticide injection to confirm elimination of heartworms.

He also explained the clinic’s preferred HW preventative – Advantage multi – a topical application, (imidacloprid for fleas which Turbo does not have + moxidectin, the HW preventative, which is supposedly absorbed through the skin). I didn’t even realize they had a topical for HW. I told him I would rather not use an insecticide for fleas that he didn’t need. He said alternatives (such as heartguard) could be used but may not be as effective, in his opinion. I then mentioned that I recalled hearing about a “slow kill” method. He seemed a little stunned, and said that that method was actually more dangerous, wasn’t as reliable and it could take much longer if it even worked. I again expressed my concern about all the toxins, especially the arsenic/immiticide.

He didn’t think the trembling episode was HW related at all, although he didn’t offer any real explanation for it. Also he thought it would be fine for him to go ahead and get the rabies vaccination, or I could wait for the outside lab’s bloodwork results in a day or 2. I told him we would definitely wait.
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Here’s where I need advice;

Do you think I should get another HW test from another vet along with a second opinion?

Should I consider a slow kill method vs the clinic’s protocol?

Should I use heartguard or another ivermection based HWP vs the advantage multi, moxidectin based? Is their any other moxidectin based without other insecticides included? Is there another one more effective than the others? Are there any other HWP’s using some different drug altogether?

Should I continue to put on hold the rabies vaccination? if I put off more than a few more days, then he will be past due again, will probably only be able to get the 1 yr vs the 3 yr, and would have to be re-vaccinated again in a year.

Does anyone have anyone input about what could cause the trembling episode?

Any other opinions/advice?

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Update: The vet called with the bloodwork results. Everything looked “perfectly normal” he especially stressed the liver and kidney values, the blood cell and platelet counts and values, thyroid, and some other things I don’t recall now, I don’t have a copy yet. What a big relief on that much. I had some more questions to ask, such as should he have X-rays, ultrasound, etc. He could, but didn’t think neccesary nor did he advise it. I asked about the microfilariae count, he said a fair amount? Somewhere I had read about the 3 classes of HW infections. I asked what “class” his condition would be, he replied definitely class 1, which I saw described somewhere (going by memory)as asymptomatic to mild, no radiologic signs, nor signs of anemia. He still encouraged going ahead with the rabies vacination, and strongly urged getting started on the advantage multi soon. But he seemed much more amenable now to a slow kill method, maybe along with doxycycline, before I even asked again, even seemed to kind of go along with it, though he still didn’t recomend it, he still recomended their protocol. He also expressed concern that these worms may be resistant to ivermectin, and it could take a very long time to kill them using it. So he again really encouraged using their Advantage multi. I guess this multi is a new thing.

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Any advice/opinions would be very much appreciated, as I’m feeling lost and very worried over this. I think my questions still remain the same after getting the blood work results.