Now I’m joining you on the confused state. Tripe is one Tablespoon 3 times weekly, herring is same amount twice weekly
Your tripe has balanced calcium so while it is boneless it still has the calcium and your herring has bones too. Or am I confused, which we all know is a regular and constant state for me anyway.
Wait, patty, right now she gets about 2.2 oz of boneless. If I gave her 0.66 oz of boneless, she’d be constipated! I assume she would because she’d be getting way more bony. Am I thinking of this wrong?
My dog: no, I hadn’t thought about that. I Re-read an article about canine cognitive dysfunction; some of the symptoms fit Gemma to a “T”.
Thanks patty, it would take me forever to figure out.
Marie, Have you tried using a electric blanket and putting it on low and the ground and put a soft towel down over it so she could feel the warmth? I have one made just for dogs. It only stays on though for 30 minutes and is waterproof. Its really soft out side, it just wont hurt her if she should get it wet, maybe the heat would help her at night. just a thought
I think that means of your 3.3oz final weight, 0.66oz could be boneless meat. That is 20%.
MyDogIsMe: how true that is (about the poop)!!!
Cyndi: Can you do a combination of many foods: raw, dehydrated, canned, kibble if you want to feed it? I wonder if that might clear up the loose stools and give her a variety.
You may have read I have a few stool issues with one dog and I think I am going to end up doing Darwins & boneless ground for her raw, plus The Honest Kitchen and am going to buy canned as well. She has no teeth so I would prefer no kibble plus I don’t see the need for her to have it
HDM: Marie + math=stupidity LOL. Right now, she gets about 1.2oz boneIN; I then add her herring or tripe, depending what day it is, to the bowl then add the rest in boneLESS to equal 3.3oz total.
This is per meal, we feed twice daily. When we fed much more boneIN, thats when she was going three days, or more, without pooping so it appears she needs more boneless than bone in.
I love to read this sight! Where else could you learn so much about dog poop! We are for sure dog lovers to be concerned how often our pets poop! I just thought of something about Cyndi’s dog. She mentioned her dog stays out side some to play… you don’t think he could be ..ah.. eating some of (it) and that’s why he is getting sick? I caught Dixie in my sons cat litter box one time, not my sons litter box but his cats litter box, and she was crunching on something. I had to go brush her teeth! yuck
You could try adding up to 4 oz. boneless meat for every 16 oz. Darwin’s you feed. If this doesn’t change things, I would just accept that pooping every other day is normal for her. I really hope you figure out what’s going on and start seeing some improvement!
I really don’t want to be bothered balancing. I admit to being lazy. Steve prefers the Darwin’s and he pays for most of it. She still mostly poops every other day. Some weeks, she’ll go two days in a row. I’m ok with this, I just don’t want her stopped up. Do you think adding some boneLess to Darwin’s would be best, because of her non pooping issues?
I love this little gal, so glad she’s here but boy, some things aren’t easy! Off and on, we’ve had trouble with her crying at night,usually between 3-5 am. Moved her crate from our room to spare room; no change. She now sleeps loose in our room but the same thing. She has bad knees & her hips aren’t great either, been on the Swansons joint support and two Chinese herbs. We aren’t noticing any change so when she goes for her Re-check on Tuesday, I’m going to get a script for something. I don’t know if she’s crying due to pain, dementia or something else.
Hi Marie –
If you aren’t balancing the Hare Today grinds out with the appropriate supplements and nutrient-dense whole foods, then I think Darwin’s would be the better option. If you’re adding the appropriate vegetables, whole food supplements, efas etc. to the Hare Today grinds, then I think the Hare Today grinds would be the better option. I think that both the Hare Today grinds and the Darwin’s formulas likely have similar bone content (probably ~10%). Darwin’s would definitely be more convenient if you didn’t want to put the work into balancing the Hare Today grinds.
HDM: an opinion from you? Think Gemma would be better off on Darwin’s with boneless if she needs it?
I don’t know that it would be enough of a difference to help her though.
So, that may be a good thing if she doesn’t need much bone?
I would expect Darwin’s to be 10% bone of the animal portion, however they add other stuff so I would expect them to be slightly lower in bone.
Back in February, I think, we decided to get Hare Today grinds instead of Darwin’s. Originally, I thought it was cheaper. It turns out that Gemma needs far more boneLESS than bony & boneless costs more. It’s making it much more expensive.
That brings me to Darwins. Is there less bone in Darwin’s than Hare? My husband sometimes has to feed the dogs and he finds Hare to be a pain in the butt. I think Darwin’s would be an easier product to use. Gemma did get stopped up once on Darwin’s but we really don’t know what caused it. Steve is fine with Darwin’s, I don’t know if I’d have to use boneless with it or not. As you guys said awhile back, she’s probably not getting complete balance. Darwin’s would be far easier than doing it myself. Will it cost more? Yep but that’s ok.
I’m open to other suggestions.
I had looked at The Honest Kitchen, but that was another one that used rosemary as a natural preservative. There might not be anything behind the connection with rosemary and seizures, but I would like to try finding something without rosemary for now.
I will definitely check out those other sites though. Thank you!
I have been reading about Darwin’s raw, and those don’t seem to have rosemary. They are also running an introductory offer for 10 pounds for $14.95, so I thought I would try that with her. She has become a bit of a picky eater since our lab passed away, so I want to try finding a smaller amount before investing $90 in something she won’t eat.
The problem is though that I live in the middle of nowhere in Kentucky, so there aren’t all that many natural dog food options offered around here. Even Feeder’s Supply, Pet Smart, etc. has a limited selection and most of that is Blue Buffalo. Chances are we will have to order whatever we feed her online.
With the cost of any store bought raw I’m still hoping to maybe feed her half raw/dehydrated and half dry. Hopefully I can narrow down the dry foods I am considering once we get an allergy test.
Thank you Sandy. If anyone is close to me and or could use some free Darwins and My Pet Carnivore Raw let me know before I toss it out? I still have a box that I can ship it to you if you want to pay the shipping but I might need to find a meat place that could dry ice pack it for me if that is possible. This is a lot of Raw that would go to waste so please contact me at [email protected] if you want it. I just got 10lbs of duck and 10lbs of Bison from Darwin ‘s and I had maybe 10lbs left of turkey from Darwin’s. I have 2/ 5lb containers of ground young beef and 2/ 2lb containers of green tripe super mix, all from My Pet Carnivore. I also have a rib bone and 4/ marrow bones and these are all unopened like the Raw meat.
I’m on the yahoo group down here, but I haven’t ordered through them yet. They are limited on when you can pick up and where I have to go is 2 hours away. They just started delivering to my area intermittantly. I haven’t a clue what their schedule is. They have one mix that the lady that heads it up makes, that sounds really good for old dogs, lots of groung chicken feet.
I have a chest freezer and I’m leaning towards the upright, because of how much of a pain it is when you want something that you know is near the bottom. Right now, I have 50 lbs of goat on top and all of my Darwin’s, MPC, and Hare Today are buried. There is very little room for human food at all and it is BADLY in need of a defrost.
The upright that I’m looking at has 3 wire shelves that are removable and adjustable. The bottom one over the basket/drawer is the only one that looks strong enough for a really huge load. It also has 5 or 6 shelves in the door that are deep enough and tall enough for My Pet Carnivore’s 2 lbs containers, 4 to a shelf I think. It boobles my ming to think how much Hare Today would fit in there, or that I could have a whole shelf just for Darwin’s.
The reason I suddenly started seriously looking is that a friend mentioned that they need to clear their freezer of last years deer meat. They are going to send it my way and my freezer is full of the goat we just had done.
Nectarmom-
I’m so sorry to hear that your baby is still sick 🙁 shadow has fully recovered and his appetite is back. For now, I purchased natures variety instinct with raw boost. It’s a grain free kibble with added bits of freeze dried raw. He is still having some runny poop but it’s a lot better than the liquid poop he was having. I was also thinking about Darwin’s, but I’m going to continue researching. I wish I could feed raw but sometimes it just dosent work for our babies. I feel like a failure but his health is my top priority
HDM- I will definitely keep that in mind, but the pre-mix and that kind of meat Woukd be way out of my budget. In trying to spend no more than $100 a month on food.
Thank you all for all the help and advice you have given me.
Patty is right Weimlove and we were using Darwin’s and my baby is now in intensive care and staying at the Vet for who knows how long. My bill is already $1300 but if they can make her well and then money is no object. I plan to probably put her back on Brothers Allergy since they changed the ingredients back to where they were the first go round. She did fine on it until they added that fish oil so we will give it a shot. Sometimes things do not work out and you have to do what is best for your furry babies health. As far as my research Darwin’s was lower in fat than most pre-made Raw and Darwin’s came highly recommended. Yes I am aware that licking in the air is Nausea but this was not that type of lick, she was trying to get in the others bowls to eat and licking. She will also lick in the air with acid reflux.
Thanks for the well wishes everyone. Weimlove Best of luck to you with your baby.
NectarMom –
I think Sandy had a good suggestion. You may want to forget the Darwin’s and possibly even the MPC and just use a pre-mix and mix in very lean meat (if you want to continue with raw). I would go with meat from the grocery store so you know exactly the level of fat you’re feeding – 95% lean ground beef, 97% lean ground turkey, chicken breast, etc. As for adding EFA’s – I’d just add a sardine or a fish oil capsule and maybe a very small amount of coconut oil a few days a week. I’m so sorry to hear that your dogs are having these issues. Some dogs just can’t tolerate high levels of fat and some breeds are pre-disposed pancreatitis. All of my dogs tolerate very high levels of fat (I sometimes feed up to 40%) – thank god, they eat so much the higher fat levels help me keep their food more calorie-dense.
Since my 2nd bout with Pancreatitis and this girl is even worse than the first girl. I bought some Organic ground turkey and bought a bag of Organic brown rice and planned to cook the rice but mix the turkey in just raw. She cannot eat until tomorrow but I am afraid to feed her anymore Darwin’s. Shes has very runny stools all day so my vet said no food today so I plan to feed her tomorrow morning and the organic raw turkey is all I could think of to feed her unless I go back to kibble which I am trying to avoid. I should get my order from My Pet Carnivore tomorrow and I ordered 10lbs of the young ground beef but I am sure it will be in the afternoon before I get it delivered plus I want to try to mix that with the Darwin’s turkey meals to try to cut the fat in the Darwin’s meals at least in half if possible. Anyone have any thoughts to help me out?
Alright just a few questions because I am noticing things since my dogs have been on just Darwin’s meals and nothing else. They still have acid reflux and they are eating grass again like when they were on kibble? I give them Nyla bones to chew on and when they were on kibble they rarely chewed on them and now since being on all Raw Darwin’s meals they are tearing into the nyla bones. What in the world are they lacking? My shihtzu also threw up her morning meal of Darwin’s and then a couple of hours later I offered her more and she ate it without throwing any up. This is the first time she has done that in 5 weeks so seriously I am stumped on it and wondering why she is walking around now like she does not feel good and keeps sniffing her own behind? They all 4 are licking their feet like crazy once again and eyes are tearing really bad so I am wondering if this is still a detox that they are going through after being on Darwin’s for 7 weeks now? My one chihuahua has made her webs inbetween her feet raw and red from licking so much. What in the world??
Including shipping they top $4 a pound for me. I use some Darwin’s, but not all. When I started feeding raw, I googled homemade dog food and found DinOvite. It was an easy way to get started. I used their Yeast Starvation Diet for a bit while I read up on feeding raw. It’s a very easy recipe and I still make it occassionally with some modifications. There are a few premixes and vitamin/mineral mixes that are made to be mixed with either boneless meat or grinds that are also an easy way to get started. These are more expensive than doing it all from scratch, but less expensive than premade balanced raw diets.
Thanks Patty. I just got done reading some of the threads about Darwin’s raw food. Do you think this would be a good place for me to start? I haven’t researched the cost for them yet, but Darwins sounds like a good alternative for me instead of me trying to figure out on my own if I’m feeding the rights raw foods in the right quantities. Are they really expensive, do you know?
This is the spirulina supplement that my vet.
Animal Essentials Organic Green Alternative
Animal Essentials Herbal Green Alternative Antioxidant Powder for Dogs & Cats
Any thoughts?
Both my dogs are on Darwin’s, or we feed THK preference with an organic protein, or a balanced diet of rmb, meat and organ (usually kidney or liver). We also feed raw green tripe, and on occasion kibble with Merrick. ( we are switching from Evo red meat to trying our first bag of Brothers Complete Allergy. )
We also supplement with kefir, yogurt, cottage cheese, fresh eggs, sardines in olive oil.
We give pre and probiotic with enzymes daily, turmeric, glucosamine and fish oil also.
So Happy to hear your guys like Darwins, it’s has to be one of the best commercial raw foods out there. Get better Hank
Hi there!!
Sorry it has taken me so long to get back here. It has been crazy busy around here these days.
Hank is doing great on the Darwin’s. We are now into our 3 full shipment, and I am very happy with the food. Both dogs really like it. We also bought duck necks from them, and we are incorporating them into their homemade raw diet. (we get grass fed beef hear, tongue, kidney and liver from a local rancher) It is fun to hear them crunching. My black lab loves sardines as it turns out.
Unfortunately, Hank had his first foot blow up in a year and a half, but we are convinced that it is ingrown hair between the toes that cause it, and not environmental allergies. We are doing laser treatments at our vet, and we did one acupuncture treatment as well. Poor guy, he is on low activity until it heals. His itching and licking is pretty much resolved for now.
All in all, I wish I would have learned about Darwins, raw feeding, etc years ago.
ps. I just ordered my first 5# sample of Brothers complete allergy last night for the days when kibble is whats for dinner!
Thanks HDM. Things are looking better today for my baby. Shes acting a bit normal and been eating the Darwin’s Raw twice a day with no issues so I am really sure now that it was the bone marrow.
I do have a question though. I bought some Sardines in a can of water and was wondering if it is ok to give her and the others a half of one of those without any issues? They did not seem to have too much fat in them but I don’t want to rock the boat anymore with my baby either? Everyone else can probably handle them but I don’t want to give them something without her getting something too…shes just a bit spoiled 🙂
Yeah we went through this again with the Brothers Allergy Formula but just not as long. I only notice it on her because she is black. So everytime I switch brands or proteins my dogs will go through a detox period? Well if the duck is lower in fat then I may give it a try and do what Darwin’s said to do and mix the turkey in with it. I would honestly like to stick with Raw but if it causes my Pancreatic girl issues then we will have no option but to switch her to a leaner food but so far the last 2 days shes been fine on it but she still is not like she was before he marrow bones. If I have to do it myself then I will but I am mainly concerned with balance if I go that route.
Generally duck is considered a fattier fowl – but it depends on what cuts of meat are being used. In the case of Darwin’s, the duck formula has less fat than the turkey – 22% in the duck and 27% in the turkey (dry matter basis). The increased shedding is probably detox – many dogs detox when switching from kibble to raw and shedding can be a sign.
I have been using Mercola enzymes for approx 3 months now and it has pancreatin in it. If there is another brand that you might think is better or has more in it that she could use please feel free to post it.
For now we are sticking with Turkey but before the Pancreatitis issue I spoke to Darwin’s about mixing in Duck and I recall the girl on the phone from Darwin’s said Duck is lower in fat? I was talking to a co-worker about it and she ordered her yorkie the turkey and she said it made her yorkie very sick but I would bet she did not do a slow transition. I asked her about trying Duck because her dog was on a duck kibble and she said Duck was too high in fat from what she read up on the different proteins??
Also something I noticed more of is that since we switched to Raw my Chihuahua that had the Pancreatitis has been dropping fur like crazy, shes a black short coat chihuahua. Last time that happened my vet said it was due to her missing something in her diet and so that is when we started food searching, we were using Azmira back then.
A recap. Gemma is almost ten, we got her in January. She came to us toothless. She was fed The Honest Kitchen with Darwin’s. Two or three weeks after we to her, she got “stopped up”. Had to go to vets where he got an enema. The Darwin’s had larger pieces of bone, we didn’t know exactly what caused the issue but we bought Bravo Balance that has smaller pieces.
I had grinds from Hare Today for the other dogs….in talking with Hare, she advised me that Gemma probably needs more meat. No more THK, we started adding some Hare to the Bravo.
She has trouble pooping, now she goes one little poop every other day. I realize that raw fed dogs don’t always go daily but I’m not anxious to repeat her being stopped again. I called Bravo, was told the Balance is 10% organ, 15% veggies….of the rest, 60% is meat and 40% is bone. Too much bone for Gemma. She’s off the Balance now, going on all Hare, both bone in and bone less.
Can’t just be easy, eh?
If she is eating the Darwin’s turkey now and doing fine, she may be fine with it. This is the time frame when she should be most likely to relapse. I would still look for something lower fat to at least alternate with.
Yes HDM Darwin’s did tell me that the fat levels were lower after we talked about my dogs Pancreatits issue. I am going to check out Steve Browns supplement and decide where to go from there.
Shelties Mom I give Mercola digestive enzymes at every meal and also probiotics and spirugreen superfood once a day. We started the Spirugreen 2 weeks ago and the Enzymes and probiotics about 3 months ago. I need a balance and possibly thinking of cooking the girls meat and adding in veggies but I know I need balance so I am out to search for that also. I have a product I ordered specifically for mixing with cooked or Raw mixture by Dr Jones and it is called Ultimate Canine Formula.
Thank you all. So far for the last 2 days she has had her Raw Darwin’s turkey meals and seems to be getting better but maybe thats because shes on Metronidazole. I am searching other avenues though.
Hi NectarMom –
If Darwin’s telling you the fat levels aren’t what I told you then they’re likely trying to give you the “unconverted” fat levels. To obtain the true fat level it’s necessary to convert the fat to a dry matter basis (same goes for protein) – to get an accurate representation of the nutrient values this is especially crucial for foods with high levels of moisture (raw and canned). Darwin’s general analysis states that the food has 7% fat, but the food is 74% water (this means the fat levels are much higher they’re just diluted by the water). To calculate you first need to determine the percentage of dry matter, we’ll do this by subtracting the wet matter from 100%: 100% – 74% moisture = 26% dry matter (this means that for every 100 g. food you feed 74 g. are water and 26 g. are actual food, this is why the fat levels appear lower than what they actually are on the general analysis). Next, we divide the “as fed” fat level provided on the general anlysis by the percentage of dry matter we just calculated: 7% fat/26% dry matter = 0.26923. We now want to convert this value to a percentage: 0.26923 X 100% = ~27% fat. This is the only accurate way to truly compare fat levels because for example, the fat levels for kibble are practically on a dry matter basis. Kibble is generally only 10% moisture so if the fat level is, say, 15% on an as fed basis the “true” fat level is 17% (doesn’t change much). I hope all that makes sense.
My question is this – did Darwin’s tell you the fat levels I stated were higher that what the actual fat levels after you told them your dog got pancreatitis? They should have a general analysis with all the nutrient values on a dry matter basis and to try and fool you into believing what I told you is not accurate – especially after when you have a dog with pancreatitis – tells me they’re either 1) clueless or 2) trying to be deceptive in an attempt to sell food. I’m not a fan of Darwin’s customer service so neither would surprise me.
I’m going to have to agree with Patty – use a pre-mix and make your own food using extra lean ground turkey. Steve Brown has a great balancer powder that’s specifically designed to balance the fats in poultry (seespotlivelonger.com).
Nectar mom,
If I were you, I would go to the butcher, get some chicken backs and necks, turkey necks, any muscle meat on sale, and start from there. It is much cheaper than Darwin’s, and you can see exactly what is going into your dogs meals. It’s also a lot easier to tweak.
That is what I am afraid of with Darwin’s if the fat level is indeed what HDM has stated then to continue feeding it to my dog would only put her life in danger. Darwin’s tells me the fat is not as high as HDM said but at the same time I trust HDM advice too so this is why I am confused on what to do. I won’t be feeding the marrow bones ever again but I am stumped on the Darwin’s?
Sleep hasn’t been my friend this week o I’m not comprehending. If the marrow bones caused the issue, why would you need to stop feeding Darwin’s? Just stop the bones; am I missing something?
I don’t know which way to turn now. Should I keep her on Raw from Darwin’s and only that or find a kibble that she can tolerate? I am pretty sure it was the marrow bone because before that she was fine the whole month on Raw turkey meals. The vet has her on Cerenia and Metronidazole and said she should feel better in a couple of days and she did eat this morning 1/4 Darwins and then this afternoon I gave her about 10 pieces of Brothers Allergy kibble but I don’t know if I should give her anymore or just let her system relax and give her some in the morning. If I open a 1/2lb package of Darwins if I don’t use it all right then can I put it in a baggy and use it later that evening? I just hate that I did this to her 🙁
My one Chihuahua with intestinal allergies has mild Pancreatitis from the marrow bones. At least that is what the vet said it could very well be and Darwin’s also said it was more than likely the marrow bones since they told me the Raw turkey meals are 12% Protein and 6% Fat in a wet matter which Raw is and plus we have now been on the Raw for a solid month and no issues until the marrow bones so those who have dogs with intestinal issues just beware marrow bones are really high in fat.
Sandy, marrow has a high level of fat but it also has other things that have protein in them and the bone itself has some protein in it. Darwin’s marrow bones are pretty well cleaned off but not completely cleaned off.
NectarMom,
Sorry to hear about the situation. I didn’t think that “fat” had proteins in it. So I’m not sure about an intolerance other than from the amount of fat itself. Maybe a limited amount of time with the marrow bones at first and then slowly let them have it for longer periods of time. If you think your dogs can’t have the marrow bones, you can get the marrow out by boiling and stuff the empty bones with something else so they can still gnaw on them – like yogurt or even stuff some of the Darwin’s turkey in there and refreeze so they have to work to get it out.
It was a beautiful day outside today and so I decided to lay out some dog pads and give the girls a Darwin’s Raw Marrow bone and 10 min after they were really into it Sally my tricolored chihuahua went across the yard and started throwing up so I took hers away and put it back up. The other three chewed on the marrow bone all excited and now 3hrs later runny poop everywhere and my one with intestinal allergies is bloated very bad 🙁 It looks to me we found the intestinal allergy protein to avoid with her. Just a few minutes a go (4hrs after the marrow bones) one of my other chihuahuas was in our bed and started heaving to throw up so I grabbed her and put her in the floor in time for her to throw up. It is looking like beef is not our best friend. Has anyone else had this issue? 3 out of the four of our dogs ate at least 1/2 the marrow out of the bone, did they maybe eat too much in one sitting? I know it seems I keep having issues with things introduced to my dogs but I am so frustrated with trying things that in some way keep back firing and causing my dogs more painful issues. They have no problem with the raw Darwin’s turkey meals so the only thing I can figure is that its because it is beef?
I totally agree with InkedMarie and HDM.
