[crazy4cats]

Hi- I often see that many on this forum suggest giving raw meaty bones to their dogs. Which type of bones are the safest and where do you get them? If they still have meat on them, would they be considered a meal? Also, wondering if you should boil them or anything before giving to dogs. My dogs (lab mix) are extremely aggressive chewers and looking for something safe as well as something to keep them busy and satisfied for more than 5 minutes. Help!

[weimlove]

If I wanted to use a pre-mix for part of one of the two meals per day, and have the other meal with just raw meat, bones, organs, etc, how would that work? Would I still need to add supplements? And would I just add ground meat to the pre-mix, and then use the 80:10:10 and veggies for the other meal? Sorry, just trying to see all of my options.

[Shawna]

Weimlove,

HDM mentions her thoughts about veggies in an earlier post on this thread. Here’s the first couple sentences but there’s more “Concerning vegetables, many don’t feel that they’re necessary. Vegetables aren’t part of a dog’s natural diet and I do agree that as long as everything else I described above is provided that they probably aren’t necessary, but I do strongly feel that when they’re provided in small quantities they can be a beneficial addition to the dog’s diet.”

I agree COMPLETELY with her. Our dogs are subjected to SO MANY MORE toxins than their ancestors and certainly more than wolves. Examples — formaldehyde is off gased from particle board furniture for the life of the piece, gas fumes from gas water heaters and vehicles, the chemical PFOA in tephlon pans and wrappers like those on microwave popcorn bags can actually kill a bird at the right concentration, fluoride in drinking water, vaccinations/heartworm/flea tick etc…

Not to mention, many don’t bother feeding organic. Bones from CAFO cattle can be high in contaminants like fluoride. The meat is higher in saturated fat than grass finished beef. The meat can be tainted due to the GMO corn and soy etc etc etc. Additionally, “prey” is going to include fiber from the small amounts of ingested fur, sodium from the blood of the animal, ALL the organs — brains are a source of omega 3 DHA, heart has taurine, pancreas has enzymes, tripe has more fiber (in the bits of ingested plant material that comes with) and probiotics and enzymes and on and on.. Many “prey model” enthusiasts don’t account for all these missing nutrients.

The extra vitamins, minerals and antioxidants in fruits and veggies just seem like a really good idea when we are subjecting our pets to so many toxins that would not be found in their natural environment (or their ancestor’s that is).

Veggies should be cooked or run through the blender or food processor. Running them thorugh the blender breaks down the cellulose layer without needing heat which can damage the natural enzymes within the food. If you would eat the veggie/fruit raw than you can give it to your dog raw too — cucumbers, peppers, berries, celery, zucchini (sp?), carrots, tomatoes etc. The finer they are blended they more nutrients are released. If you would cook it for yourself, cook it for pup — acorn squash, sweet potato etc. Best way to cook them is to steam them in a steamer (can be purchased for $40.00 or less). Add the water from the steamers drip tray back into the food as some minerals are leached during cooking and you can add them back by adding the water back.

Hope that helps :).

[Hound Dog Mom]

weimlove –

It’s great that Shadow loved the raw fish – but be careful about which types of fish you feed raw. Salmon, trout and steelhead that are caught in the Pacific can carry “salmon poisoning.” If you want to feed any of these types of fish from this region they should be frozen for a least 2 weeks to kill the parasite.

I make my own wholefood multivitamin/mineral. I order my ingredients from starwest-botanicals.com. I mix equal parts: kelp, alfalfa, spirulina, chlorella, bee pollen, turmeric and garlic powder. You can do this if you want or if you want to make it simpler you can just mix equal parts kelp and alfalfa and that should be plenty. I’d give a dog the size of yours about 1 1/2 tsp. per day. You’ll need to supplement with vitamin e, for a dog the size of yours I’d give 200 i.u. daily or 400 i.u. every other day. Any vitamin e for humans will do, but I order mine from vitacost – I use the “Vitamin E & Tocotrienol Complex” because it has all 4 tocopherols and all 4 tocotrienols (most vitamin e supplements just contain alpha tocopherol). For fish oil I’m currently using Iceland Pure Sardine & Anchovy blend and Carlson cod liver oil, but any quality fish oils will do (I like buying in liquid form so I can mix it in with the food, but you could certainly get capsules if your dog will eat them). This is optional, but I do give my dogs coconut oil every other day and a plant-based omega 3-6-9 on the opposite days as the coconut oil.

I’d love to make you a menu plan, but because I don’t know exactly which cuts of meat will be available to you it’ll be more like a “template”. I’ll give some options and just use what you can get. One of my dogs – Gertie – is an active 70 lb. 2 year old as well so I’ll give you measurements based on what I would feed her. Obviously metabolisms vary from dog to dog so if you find this is too much or too little food feel free to reduce or increase the amounts, just keep everything proportionate. I’m also not sure how many times a day you feed, but I’ll assume you feed two meals a day.

Breakfast:
-5 mornings per week feed 12 oz. boneless red muscle meat (beef, lamb, buffalo, etc. – can use lean ground, chunks, heart, tripe, or some combination of these). 2 mornings per week feed 6 oz. liver and 6 oz. of another organ or any combination of other organs (kidney, spleen, lungs, pancreas, brain, etc.)
-1/2 C. cooked & pureed vegetables (whichever vegetables you want, can add fruit a couple times per week).
-Optional: 1/4 C. cottage cheese, kefir, plain yogurt or goat’s milk (can do this every day or a few days a week)
-1 1/2 tsp. whole food supplement (like a kelp-alfalfa blend or my homemade blend)
-1 tsp. fish oil (alternate between a fish body oil and cod liver oil)
-Optional: 1/2 tsp. coconut oil or a plant-based omega oil (like flax or evening primrose)
-Once or twice a week: 1 tsp ground pumpkin seeds, pecans, almonds or sunflower seeds
-3/4 tsp. ground egg shell (cheap source of calcium, leave eggshells out to dry then put them through a coffee grinder the next day) or 600-750 mg. of a calcium supplement of your choice (if your butcher sells meat/bone grinds for large animals like beef you could certainly use these and omit the calcium, but most butchers don’t have the equipment to grind heavy bones, so the calcium will have to be added separately)
-200 i.u. vitamin e (or 400 i.u. every other day)

*You can feed this same meal for breakfast daily, just rotate in new protein sources, switch up the extras (cottage cheese, yogurt, nuts and seeds, etc.) and feed a variety of vegetables and fruits.

Dinner (I often alternate between these two dinners for my dogs):
-Chicken back or leg quarter
-8 oz. Gizzards or hearts or boneless chicken (ground or chunks)
-Whole egg with shell
OR
-2 Turkey necks (about 6 oz. each)
-8 oz. Turkey hearts or gizzards or boneless turkey (ground or chunks)

Remember the more variety you can feed the better! Feed as many different protein sources as you can, using as many types of organs as possible, different vegetables and different fats. Each meal doesn’t have to supply every possible vitamin and mineral your dog needs, but over time the diet should balance. So the more variety you can feed the wider variety of nutrients your dog will get.

[pugmomsandy]

My small dogs can consume any part of a chicken and turkey and also pork rib bones and rack of lamb (is that lamb rib??) and whole raw sardine. Sometimes I just buy the large package of chicken drumsticks or thighs or wings. Don’t forget chicken feet. Great for teeth cleaning and joint health. I haven’t figured out how to post pictures yet 🙁

[weimlove]

Ok, I think I will start with ground chicken, and use the higher amount of meat to pre mix version. I also will feed a rmb everyday and use chicken back, necks, etc. I will also be sticking to the smaller meaty rmb’s instead of the larger bones like the lamb one I fed yesterday. For now, I will use the pre mix just to begin a raw diet, but someday I would love to create my own raw meal and add the correct amounts of meat, organs, and bones. It is probably cheaper to create your own raw meal since you can get quality ingredients at the butcher for very cheap.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi weimlove –

Don’t feel bad bad for the question overload…I love questions! 🙂

If you’re using a pre-mix don’t use meat/organ/bone mixtures. Most pre-mixes only require boneless meat, a few (such as urban wolf) do require organ meat but most don’t require organs either. The reason you don’t want to include bone is because dogs need a balanced ratio of calcium to phosphorus, this ratio needs to be between 1:1 and 2:1 calcium to phosphorus. The pre-mixes are made with calcium and without phosphorus. Muscle meat and organ meat is high in phosphorus but has no calcium, while bone is high in calcium in lower in phosphorus. For raw feeders the correct ratio of muscle meat, organ meat and bone (80%, 10%, 10%) must be fed to ensure that the calcium and phosphorus levels are within balance and that enough organ meat is provided to provide essential vitamins and minerals – this is the most critical part of feeding homemade raw! The purpose of a pre-mix is to take the hard work out of it. Enough calcium is added to the pre-mix so that when boneless meat is added per the package instructions the calcium to phosphorus ratio will be in balance and most brands add the vitamins and minerals that would be found in the organ meat so that the addition of organ meat is not necessary. If you added organ meat and bones to a pre-mix you would potentially be throwing the calcium to phosphorus ratio out of balance and/or oversupplying certain nutrients. However, you could definitely add an rmb (such as a back or a neck) to the meal daily without throwing the calcium to phosphorus ratio out of whack – just feed the rmb in addition to the boneless meat that you add to the pre-mix, don’t count the rmb as the meat you’re adding to the pre-mix. I’d also go with the instructions that call for more meat and less pre-mix if you’re going to be feeding rmbs, as well. I know for THK’s preference there are two sets of instructions – one recommended for younger or more active dogs and one for older or more sedentary dogs. The one for active dogs called for 2 parts meat to 1 part pre-mix, while the one for less active dogs calls for equal parts of pre-mix and meat. While THK doesn’t supply the c:p ratio of the prepared product I’d assume the recipe calling for 2 parts meat to 1 part pre-mix is around 1:1, while the recipe calling for equal parts pre-mix is closer to 2:1. Using the recipe that calls for less pre-mix will keep the c:p ratio lower so when you add rmbs you’ll remain well within the 1:1 – 2:1 range. As for which type of boneless meat to add, you really can add any boneless muscle meat. I find that heart and gizzards tend to be cheapest (remember, heart and gizzards count as organ meat, not muscle meat). However, you certainly could buy ground beef, turkey, chicken, etc. (I’d keep it around 90% lean) or chop up boneless thigh meat breast meat or whatnot. Hope that wasn’t too confusing!

As for getting a picture, I think Dr. Mike has instructions on how to do it posted under the feedback and help section of the forums.

[weimlove]

HDM- yes, that was his first time ever eating anything raw, so it was probably the fat content. The bone I gave him was also a pretty large lamb bone. I will try to attach a picture of it. I will definitely try the smaller meaty bones you suggested. I was very worried last night, thanks for the peace of mind. Also, when I do switch him to raw all the way, should I do a gradual switch or just go cold turkey on the kibble? And what do you think would be the best meat and meat type to start him out on? Keep in mind that I will be mixing it with honest kitchen dehydrated pre mix. Thanks so much!!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Weimlove –

Oftentimes when I fed my dogs more dense, weight-bearing bones from large ruminants (cows, buffalo, sheep, etc.) they threw up shards about 8-12 hours after chewing the bone. For this reason I now stick with raw meaty bones. There are two types of bones 1) Recreational bones – these are going to be your marrow bones, knuckle bones, etc. and will be from large animals like cows, buffalo and sheep. These bones are not completely consumable (meaning your dog shouldn’t be able to eat the entire bone) and don’t provide a whole lot of nutrition, they are more just for fun chewing pleasure. 2) Raw Meaty Bones (you’ll often see these referred to as “RMBs). RMBs are completely consumable (meaning your dog should be be able to eat the entire thing) and provide a lot of nutrition. RMBs typically include poultry bones (chicken necks, chicken backs, chicken feet, turkey necks, duck necks, etc.) but for some larger dogs that have more powerful jaws, non-weight bearing bones of large ruminants (such as pork or beef or lamb necks or rib bones) can be considered RMBs as well. I no longer give my dogs recreational bones because of the issue with puking up the shards (I believe that because the bones are so dense they aren’t highly digestible, which results in the puking) and because I’ve read several reports of dogs actually breaking teeth on them or wearing down their teeth over time. There’s also a chance that your dog may have puked after the bone due to high fat content. Recreational bones contain marrow and marrow is very high in fat, if your dog is just switching to a raw diet and isn’t accustomed to this it could have resulted in some stomach upset. I’d recommend getting some RMBs for your dog. Primal does sell some RMBs but you could likely get them for a lot cheaper at a butcher. I get chicken backs for $0.40/lb. and turkey necks for $0.60/lb.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi weimlove –

Great choice on switching to raw, you’ll notice a big difference in your dog’s health. I agree with everything Shawna said. I just wanted to add some info on a pre-mix I like. I feed mostly homemade (you can check out a weekly feeding schedule for my dogs on the “Suggested Raw Dog Food Menus?” thread) however I use Urban Wolf Pre-mix three mornings a week. What I like about Urban Wolf versus other pre-mixes is that it’s a fine powder and in my experience digests better (with pre-mixes like Sojo’s I notice an increase in stool volume and pieces of undigested veggies coming out) and that it relies on whole foods for nutrition – the only “vitamin” added is calcium, everything else comes from whole foods and I like that you have to add organ meat so your dog gets a lot of necessary nutrients from the organs rather than from added synthetic vitamins and minerals. You also need to add oil (but I’d recommend just adding an omega 3 and omitting the omega 6 oil they call for in the recipe, it’s not necessary to add the omega 6 oil and it results in the end recipe being too high in fat – you can see how I prepare it on the menus thread if you’re interested). The only downside of Urban Wolf, for me, is that it does contain white potato (although it’s pretty far down on the ingredients list and not a major component) – but I only use it a few mornings a week so it’d not of big concern for me. If you’re using only pre-mixes every day it’d probably be best to rotate and use several different pre-mixes. Here’s some good info on pre-mixes and it explains several of the options out there: http://dogaware.com/diet/dogfoodmixes.html . I’d recommend feeding an even rotation of white meat and red meat, don’t rely on one or the other as they have different types of fats and if you only feed one or the other it would throw off the fat balance in your dog’s diet. The more variety the better. I’d also recommend feeding raw meaty bones at least two or three times a week this way your dog can get the full dental benefits a raw diet has to offer. I have large dogs and usually feed things like turkey necks, chicken backs, chicken leg quarters, duck necks, etc. Chicken necks and chicken wings work well for smaller dogs. I’d avoid the weight bearing bones of large ruminants (such as marrow bones, knuckle bones, etc.) as they are too dense and can potentially chip a tooth or over time your dog can wear their teeth down – in my experience they also don’t digest well either, I used to feed them to my dogs occasionally and it seemed like they’d always puke up bone shards. Good luck! Be sure to come back if you have any questions, quite a few of us here feed raw and would love to help. 🙂

[Toxed2loss]

Hi Kevin,
Nylabone and greenies have both caused serious health problems.. I can’t remember the details. But, you can look them up on a search engine, and I believe Dr. Becker (DVM) on mercola.healthypets.com has some articles about it. The healthiest thing to give your dog to clean their teeth is raw meaty bones and a species appropriate diet. No grains. Dogs have no dietary need for grain. In fact, their canine cousins in the wild consume only about 5-6% vegetable matter (not grains, but including small amounts of fruit). Feeding grains leads to weight gain, dental carries and plaque, as well as many other adverse health conditions. Crunching up RAW bones, scrapes them clean. Feeding a meat protein based, balanced diet is the best thing you can do to maintain their good health. If you check out the prescription diets, you’ll see they contain mostly plant based proteins. Which don’t contain complete, biologically appropriate proteins for carnivores.

A raw chicken or turkey neck, or chicken wing is a good, inexpensive “tooth brush” for your mid sized dog. You can get them cheap, by buying past date ones at the meat counter. Buy in bulk, repackage & freeze in individual portions.

For more info on raw feeding check out Dr. Becker’s articles on that too. Hope that helps. 🙂

[theBCnut]

I feed raw meaty bones to my dogs and their teeth are really nice.

[theBCnut]

I feed raw meaty bones and my dogs’ teeth are really nice.

[Breeze]

Does anyone do anything special for dental health for their dog? I saw a Dr. Oz show about dog’s dental health. Brushing my dog’s teeth is not possible. She just will not stand for it. I give her T/CL canine chews, plus water additive (Nylabone), and my Vet’s office suggested Hills Prescription Diet T/D. I give her this food only as treats. Plus she has Nylabone bones she chews on. The vet said usually dental health is a problem in small dogs. I have a Elk Hound Mix, so a medium dog. Any suggestions? And Greenies, is so over priced. So don’t tell me to do that. I tried it once but it is just not economically smart.

[theBCnut]

Feeding raw meaty bones helps to make the stool harder which helps to naturally release the anal glands. You need to really watch your dog when you first start feeding bones to make sure your dog chews up the bones instead of gulping. Starting with chicken necks works well or if you have a large dog turkey necks.

[sophia]

She’s has never taken any interest in actual bones, I think they’re to hard for her.

I’ve heard that the Blue Buffalo brand, although a good brand, can just be too rich for some dogs, and I just have a feeling my dog would be one of them. The Nutrisca actually looks very good except I think a fat content of 16% may be too high (?). I have looked for Grandma Lucys before but have not been able to find it around here! The Honest Kitchen looks like something she will do very well on though, I plan to try and find a smaller bag to test it out this weekend, thanks everyone!!

[Safe4pups]

By the way – have you tried a good raw bone? I wouldn’t leave the marrow in it because of her compromised immune system, but a good, clean, raw bone can keep a dogs chewing instinct satisfied as well as keep the teeth clean.

[Safe4pups]

Hi Sophia – both of my allergy prone dogs use Nutrisca which is grain and potato free. They both have environmental allergies and one has a potato sensitivity, and one has pancreatitis. Grains and potatoes both aggravate allergies and feed yeast. I have used both the Salmon and Chicken varieties. I also use Orijen for another dog but it may be too rich for your pup – unless it’s the senior formula. Honestly, my girl is 10 and has suffered since she was a puppy and she has done measureably better on Nutrisca – and I have spared no expense trying to find the right food for her – including a home cooked diet.
~Tracey

[Shawna]

Nice post Patty!!!
Here’s my personal (me not my dog) experience with detoxing. I have issues with the caseine protein in dairy foods. The harder the product the more caseine it has in it — so hard cheeses are REALLY a problem for me. We have opiate receptors in our brains and foods that we are intolerant of can bind to those opiate receptors — which, of course, causes us to crave the food that is an issue (this is true with dairy and gluten at least). And I do crave dairy.. I have found it harder to give up all dairy then quitting smoking (which I did 7 years ago after smoking for some 20 years).

Because of this craving and good feeling from dairy I quit for 2 or 3 weeks but then right back on – sometimes by accident (there’s dairy in SO many foods). The detox, for the first few days especially, can be worse than the symptoms while I’m consuming dairy. Symptoms that have been attributed to my dairy intolerance — weight gain, rash on my scalp with severe itching (to point of bleeding) and thickened skin in small patches, inflammation in upper back and sinus areas, inflammation in joints, brain fog, after long term use of dairy I developed malnutrition along with all the symptoms and issues of that (despite eating a good diet) like hypothyroid due to iodine deficiency and pica due to iron deficiency etc.. I’ve never had digestive symptoms, until about a year ago and then only infrequently — indigestion.

While consuming dairy my sinuses (ears and nose mainly) get inflammed but not mucousy. About the last year or so I’ve been having inflammation in my upper back sometimes with pain that wakes me up at night — I stretch and pop bones in/out even. For about the last two years I’ve been experiencing issues with my lungs. I attributed this to the years of smoking and iron anemia. However, when I quit dairy my back quits hurting, my lungs get better, more energy etc etc. However, the detox is a NIGHTMARE.. The first few days after quitting I get SEVERE sinus inflammation (including headaches and inflammation in my jawline that is so bad my teeth actually become loose). My back gets worse, joints hurt etc. This usually clears up in 4 to 7 days.. After that I start feeling MUCH better but once in a while I’ll still have a “bad” day and the ithy scalp may come back with a vengence or I’ll have a sinus headache with jaw pain for hours. The detoxing is often more intense than dealing with the symptoms while consuming dairy. But, they are always short in duration and after the detox episode I feel MUCH better overall again. Energy continues to increase, lungs continue to feel better (better able to breath and more stamina etc).

I’ve quit and then started back up again enough to KNOW beyond any doubt what symptoms are attributed to the intolerance and what symptoms to expect when I detox..

Our pets must experience very similar symptoms to us. Only they have no control over what foods they are given so craving the food shouldn’t be an issue with them..

[Hound Dog Mom]

Sophia –

Melissa had some good suggestions. In addition to her’s, I’d also recommend checking into The Honest Kitchen’s Zeal formula. It’s a pretty allergy-friendly food (grain-free, white potato free, uses fish which is a novel protein), it’s under 10% fat and rated 5 stars.

[Melissaandcrew]

Hi Sophia-

Try Blue Buffalo Wilderness Weight management(something to that effect, lol ) The fat content, if I recall is 10% and even our most fat sensitive dog could eat it just fine-Another food to try is Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance-chicken-its dehydrated and 8% or so fat. We use it as a topper several times a week.

[sophia]

Thanks for all the suggestions!

Tracey- can you tell me which brand of grain free food your feeding? She also suffers from allergies, I don’t believe they’re food related, however I’m wanting to try grain free to see if it provides any relief. I’ve been looking around a little, but I obviously need something low in fat. Her current food, Cal. Naturals, only has 8% fat, I’d love to keep it below 10%, any ideas?

[Safe4pups]

Hello Sophia~ Personally, I would never use rawhide nor bully sticks – they both have obstruction history and the dried penis is an organ that dogs have no need for, is usually imported and can include chemicals.
I have a dog with the same issues – I keep her on Denamarin, Bactaquin and feed her a high grade, grain free food. For treats she gets Get Naked Gut or Low Cal Health Chews, Zukes Apple Crisp bones and Zoe Lifestyle Dog Treats.
~Tracey

[Jackie B]

Z Bones are supposed to be good for dogs with pancreatitis. They are made by Zuke’s company.

[Melissaandcrew]

Hi Sophia-

All dogs are different of course, but I have never had a problem with rawhide and dogs with pancreatitis issues. On the other hand, marrow bones(even with it scooped out) can not be tolerated with mine.

[sophia]

she had extremely bad gas one day (like every minute) so I got her into the vet. We had just gotten a new kitten so we thought maybe she got into her food. The vet sent us home with medicine and said to put her on chicken and rice for a few days. She had loose orangish stool for a day or two, and then none at all, so we decided to go back to the vet. The vet was concerned about possible bile in the stool, as she didn’t see any blood, so we did a blood test to check on her liver. Since we were doing the blood test, and it had been about 6 months since her last one I decided just to do the fullest test to be sure, the only thing that came back was slightly elevated pancreas enzyme.

I got her a bully stick though, and she absolutely loves it! It doesn’t seem to be bothering her stomach, and she’s had the same one for about 3 days, and only eaten like 20% of it, so the little fat content it does have doesn’t worry me to much. I guess I meant chew treats though, as the bully stick is even a tiny bit hard for her, so I don’t think she would do well with a bone. thank you for the ideas though!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Alexandra!

Good question. Nutritionally speaking – as long as both contain appropriate amounts of muscle meat, organ meat and bone – they’re the same. However there are some pro’s and con’s to both. RMBs and chunks of meat more closely mimic the consumption of a whole prey animal and provide the dog with dental benefits that ground meat doesn’t. RMBs and chunks of meat are much less likely to be contaminated with bacteria such as salmonella (although with a healthy dog, this shouldn’t be much of a concern). RMBs and chunks generally have a cheaper price per pound (versus ground meat) as well. The downside is that cutting up your own meat is definitely more time consuming and I also find that it’s much easier to combine veggies and supplements or a pre-mix with ground meat. I personally feed ground in the a.m. with either a pre-mix or veggies and supplements and RMBs and “chunks” of meat (whole gizzards, hearts, livers, etc.) in the evening. Because you’re feeding the Darwin’s for on meal a day you could certainly add your supplements to this and feed chunks and bones for the other meal, then you’d be getting the best of both worlds.

[Anonymous]

what are the symptoms of pancreatis that led you to get tested for it? I heard folks scoop out some of the marrow in the bones

[DogFoodie]

Holy moly Shibasenji! Watch yer fingers, eh? Those pictures are great! The picture of your Shiba Inu clearly shows the dental benefits of raw meaty bones! Those teeth are spotless!

[aimee]

Hi BryanV21,

I brush my dogs teeth, provide chews (never bones) and like you thought that the idea that “dry diets are better for teeth” was a long stretch. But I came across some interesting publications looking at this issue and I find that I need to alter my beliefs. Certainly I don’t think that dry food equates with a healthy mouth, and maybe the overall health significance between dry fed and wet fed pets may not be great, but it looks like there is some basis to “the myth”

“Even after adjustment for age, the mean oral health index was significantly higher in cats and dogs fed soft food compared with those fed dry or mixed food, and the mean oral health index was significantly higher in cats and dogs fed mixed food than in those fed dry food. These results indicate that feeding a dry food diet has a positive influence on oral health, decreasing the occurrence of mandibular lymphadenopathy, dental deposits, and periodontal disease in cats and dogs.”

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/7/2021S.long

[BryanV21]

Wet food is not bad for teeth. You should be cleaning the dog’s teeth fairly often anyway, whether that be with brushing or using other teeth cleaning products. I’ve read that giving dogs raw meaty bones is a great way to keep teeth clean as well.

And if you’re being told that dry food is good for teeth, as it cleans them while chewing then ignore it. It’s a myth. Dry food crumbles when bitten down on, especially by the dog’s conical shaped teeth, so it’s not “scraping” the teeth at all. And a bad dog food is going to have ingredients that are more “sticky” and keep the mouth dirty anyway, whether it’s dry or wet.

[mydogisme]

Hi all, My dog is 9 yrs old and as I have been asking questions from everywhere I can think of about her illness I have something to say about the perscription food from S.D. Dixie suffers from Hemolytic Anemia. She has been on SD Z/D for over a year and I started to notice her health just wasn’t the same during the year. Now I’am ocd when it comes to the love of my life,Dixie. I call and go to her vet so much,Dixie should have her own parking space! But now my baby of 81/2 yrs is very sick and I am trying to give her the best of the best of the best. Iam very scared for her because what I have read she may have to have her spleen removed. I just need to hear from others who may have gone through this type of illness with their fur baby. Dixie has been my rock. She has gone through my breast cancer with me. She went through my x husband friends who lived next door to us hurassment. She went through having lighter fluid sprayed on her and was in the hospital for 3 weeks,again it was the neighbors,thank goodness thay are gone and dead. She was hit by a car,no bones broken,she was playing with kids at the ball park,a car ran off the road 15 feet and hit her.The driver thought he hit a child.When he found out after turning around he hit a dog,he left. Everyone helped me load her in the car and we flew to the dr and again she was in the hospital for 3 weeks and her mom (Me) was beside her from 7am to closing everyday giving her finger tip drops of water,telling her how much I love her and stories of our walks to the parks and seeing the squrles and ducks. Then she and I were hit head on by a pickup truck. She was in her seat belt in the back seat. As I was taken by ambulance to the hospital,as fireman took her to the local animal hospital and told them to check her out from A to Z. I picked her up the next day and she was ok. EVERY DOG SHOULD BE IN A VESTED SEAT BELT! NOT IN A LAP OR IN THE BACK OF A TRUCK!!!! She has been my little wonder dog. I need to find ways to save this little girls life as she has saved mine so many times. Mike has done such a great job at letting us all know about the dog foods that I feel have so much to do with the health of our family members. If anyone has any way to let me know what they did for their baby who has this type of illness,please let me know. Thanks, I’m Dixie’s mom

[InkedMarie]

It’s no one’s job to post correct info, its up to people to ask questions and then research the info they’ve been given. In regards to greenies, I prefer to err on the side of caution and not feed them. Bones are much better, imo.

[sophia]

Hound Dog Mom-
really just anything healthy she can chew on that a sort of picky dog might like. She has allergies, and I am working with my vet to treat these, but the bone seemed to take her mind off of chewing on her feet. She is older so she’s not extremely active, so giving her something to keep her occupied was a treat as well.

I will check all of your suggestions. I honestly don’t know anything about bones or dental sticks, in all the years I’ve had her she would never chew on any bone I’d given her, so I was surprised when she took such a liking to this one (plus I don’t eat meat myself, so figuring out what parts of animals has more fat and what part doesn’t has been a learning process for me). I’m sure in the options you’ve listed we can find something though! Thanks so much for the help!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Sophia –

Are you talking about real bones or dental chews?

As far as real bones, most are quite high in fat due to the marrow. I’d stick with turkey necks, chicken necks or duck necks (raw) with the skin removed. You may be able to find some lean beef neck bones, my butcher carries them sometimes.

If you’re referring to chew type treats, bully sticks are pretty low fat. If your dog likes antlers, they’re very long lasting and since most dogs actually can’t “eat” them you wouldn’t have to worry about fat content. Himalayan chews are low fat and long lasting as well.

[sophia]

My dog had a very mild pancreatitis reaction about two months ago. She just had some gas and loose stool, but tests showed elevated pancreas enzymes. Since I have been so careful with her diet, she is on low fat food, she gets boiled chicken or carrots as little treats, and that’s about it. However, the other day someone gave her a rawhide. She loved it and chewed on it for hours, but after I researched how this might affect her I had to take it away (apparently raw hides are no good for any dog, much less one with her history). What I am wondering is if there are any bones safe for dogs with her history? She’s an older girl, so something a little softer (like the softness of a rawhide) would be great. Thanks!

[theBCnut]

If he looks in good weight then he is just a piggy, don’t give in. If he has more than the last three ribs showing or clearly defined hip bones, you may need to increase his feed. If that is the case, increase it slowly or you may increase it too much and it’s far better to have your still growing pup thin than fat.

[Hound Dog Mom]

As for the qustion at hand of “Are Greenies Safe?” – I think they’re just as safe as any other chew. Obviously there’s always a risk of choking or intestinal blockage, but that’s with any chew type treat. My issue with them is not their safety but their ingredients. Very low quality, like feeding your doggie a candy bar. Stick with raw bones or natural chews (bully sticks, dried trachea, pig ears, etc.).

[Hound Dog Mom]

janus69 – As long as poultry bones are raw they’re safe. Raw bones are safe, all cooked bones are dangerous (even bigger non-poultry bones).

[janus69]

You know what Bryan, it is peoples job to post correct info. The whole purpose of this very site is correct info. The info in the forums must strive to be as correct as the review of food or the warnings of recalls or it all is for not.

And Guinessandi, as it states in the link I posted, there is NOT enough info, the examples you posted have no vet statement and in two show the treats were unsupervised. The same can occur with rawhides or nylabones if unsupervised.

[janus69]

Chicken feet? Interesting I was wondering about that and ducks feet as well. Had always been told not to give a dog the bones of foul as they can splinter.

[pugmomsandy]

This is the very first raw recipe I tried:

5.25 # chicken with bones
3.25 # boneless chicken thighs
1/2 # (1 cup) chicken heart
1/2 # (1 cup) chicken liver
1/2 # (1 cup) chicken gizzard
2 # pureed veg/fruit (canned pumpkin, pineapple, mango, strawberries, blueberries, coconut flakes, it varies)

Grind all meat and bones and puree all veg/fruit ingredients. Mix together. Store in portions according to preference.

I then give at feeding time (couple times a week): green supplement, krill oil, glandular supplement.

[pugmomsandy]

I used to give greenies. The dogs did not get the teeth cleaning benefit out of them. Ate them too fast. Now I just give them a real bone to chew and their teeth are clean. Marrow bones, rib bones, chicken feet, neck bones, split knuckles.