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  • in reply to: Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition #59153 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
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    I’m definitely not a vet and I don’t know if Doberman’s are prone to EPI (exocrine pancreatic insufficiency) but has your vet checked for it? I know is somewhat common in GSDs (but can happen in any breed) because I had one years ago. She lived a full life but required an enzyme supplement on her food to help her digest it. We had her from 8wks old but it didn’t show up enough to cause concerns until she was maybe 9 months old. First symptom is loose stools and not gaining weight normally, though appetite is good. Large stools that look like ‘cowpies’, possibly lighter in color.

    • This reply was modified 5 years ago by Sue's Zoo.
    in reply to: How many eggs? Shell or no shell? #40832 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    Just read the Dogs Naturally article. Apparently it’s better to feed eggs (including whites) raw because cooking depletes the nutritional value. So I may give mine all raw yolks, some raw whites and cook the unused whites for my breakfast :).

    in reply to: How many eggs? Shell or no shell? #40831 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    I feed raw and usually just add raw eggs on occasion but I didn’t realize the info about avidin and cooking. And I agree that separating egg whites is a pain so now that I’m going to cook some I found a couple of egg separators on Amazon and figured I’d share the info.

    http://www.amazon.com/OXO-Good-Grips-Egg-Separator/dp/B00A2KD8NY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1399218894&sr=8-1&keywords=egg+separator

    http://www.amazon.com/Joie-Egg-Yolky-Separator/dp/B000GLRF2O/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1399219007&sr=8-2&keywords=egg+separator

    The second one had more reviews and a slightly higher rating. And they’re each under $5. I’m sure you can find them at a bed bath and beyond, too.

    Always learn something new and useful when I read thru these forums. Wish there was a way to compile all the info. Or a good search engine for the forum!

    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    Zohar, Feeding raw meaty bones, it that’s what you’re thinking of, depends on the size of your dog and how they eat. I have two large breed older pups that are all on raw within the last 3 months. The older one (8 yrs., 80 lbs) took to raw like a champ but takes her time chewing her raw meaty bones (so far smaller turkey necks, also chicken necks, wing, feet and backs. And she LOVES them.
    The other two are under a year (95 lbs and 70 lbs). They chew most RMBs but quite often, with turkey necks, will swallow a large chunk at the end and then regurgitate several pieces of bone about 3-4 am. It’s never been a real problem but not great to wake up, clean up and wonder if all is ok for the next hour. So I’ve recently started using a meat mallet on turkey necks to break down the bone slightly before feeding. Seems to be the answer as there has been no bone regurgitation since I started.
    A couple of tips I found elsewhere: to cut large, heavier bones into smaller pieces use a garden type Lopper. Works great on turkey necks. Be careful about pieces that are too small as it is easier to choke on something that is just a little too big to swallow rather than something large that they break into smaller pieces themselves. That said, I’ve also heard of holding some of them with tongs while they eat until you’re confident they can manage the size, etc. on their own. I have to say it was kind of scary at first and it’s never good to be over-confident that you never question what you’re doing.
    And even if you don’t have a butcher, there are SO many raw pet food providers available now! You can buy lots of different raw meaty bones from any of them. Just research to make sure it’s the quality you want.

    https://www.mypetcarnivore.com/
    http://www.rawpaws.org/display/main/Raw+Paws+Home+Page
    http://reelrawdog.com/
    https://www.hare-today.com/

    And last, I heard of a website that provides info and links to many organic farms (meat and veg). Maybe there’s one near you! Check here for places that might be close to you: http://www.eatwild.com/index.html

    Good luck!

    Still confused TOO!

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 7 months ago by Sue's Zoo.
    in reply to: Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition #40772 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    I have two large pups (10m, 95lbs; 7m, 68lbs). Thanks to this website I’m now raw feeding though I’ve stressed about it quite a bit (mostly unnecessarily I”m sure). But when I talked to my holistic vet she suggested if I needed more bulk in diet especially when problems occur, oats would be the way to go. I haven’t researched this further but thought I’d pass it along as something you could check further.

    Good luck!

    in reply to: Suggested Raw Dog Food Menus? #34803 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    Sorry Sharon! I just saw this post. The online database is http://www.alacalc.co.uk/ I signed up for the 3 free recipes to test it. So far I’ve been able to add HDMs Whole Food Supplement and her Veggie/Fruit mix as a recipe then as an ingredient to one of her suggested recipes Beef/Turkey. I also recently found data on raw, bone-in items so I could add turkey necks etc (http://dogaware.com/health/kidneytable.html). After that I can download a spreadsheet which gives the calculations of about 50 different nutrients. I’m seriously considering purchasing for 15 recipes. It costs $50 but I will feel so much better about doing my own ‘recipes’ if I can make sure everything is well-balanced. (Will post on this on FB, too)

    in reply to: Choices and dilemmas #34792 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    Very difficult situation. I don’t envy you. We actually had a similar one about 5 years ago. We had lost our GSDs but still had a little terrier mutt rescue. She was about 9 at the time and maybe 20 pounds. After quite a bit of discussion we drove from St. Louis to Austin, TX to pick up two GSDs from German Shepherd Rescue. We were careful getting the dogs together and all went well for about 6 months. Suddenly the female Shepherd, who was a little flaky anyway, though very sweet, suddenly attacked the little one. I managed to stop her as she was starting to shake Buffy by the back of her neck (like killing prey). ER for the little one. We kept Chelsey but spent 4 years keeping one or the other in a crate at all times. It was quite a struggle to make sure both had quality ‘family time’ until Buffy succumbed to old age last March. We now have two new pups but they’re Shiloh Shepherds so will be big dogs. Chelsey is great with the male but in the last few weeks she started showing some aggression towards the 5-month old female who is incredibly submissive towards her. I’m watching carefully and hoping we don’t end up in the same situation again.

    So I feel your pain. I really wish I could tell you what I’d do but I just don’t feel that it’s a decision anyone can help you make that isn’t living in your home. Have you thought about re-homing to someone with no other pets?

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 9 months ago by Sue's Zoo.
    in reply to: Birthday? #34339 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    For what it’s worth…I have a 4-month old pup–actually almost 5 now as she was born the end of September. She’s been losing puppy teeth and starting to get her adult teeth for a few weeks. Saw the vet a few weeks ago and she mentioned that they were coming in right on time.

    in reply to: Suggested Raw Dog Food Menus? #34130 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    Hi Sharon,
    My understanding is that in attempting to replicate the diet a dog would consume in the wild there are pieces that we just can’t/don’t do (i.e. fur, feathers, intestinal contents-not necessarily stomach as some things I read indicate they don’t eat the stomach-, etc) so some fruits/veggies/minerals help make up the difference. Steve Brown’s book provides tables showing all the essential nutrients and recipes that come close to providing the same–shows comparisons between NRC (National Research Council), Ancestral and their recipes. I’m currently running some calculations using an online database to help me check some of these things myself. It’s time consuming but it just feels like the right thing for me.

    The more I read, the more I know…and the more complicated it becomes. Still waiting for that moment when it all seems to click and becomes easier…

    in reply to: Feeding Raw (non-commercial) to Large Breed Puppies #33978 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    Duke the Boxer posted this in the LBP topic:
    ‘The way HDM calculated the percentages of the calcium is from usuing this formula
    1)Multiply calcium% by 1000g. That gives you the grams of calcium/kg
    2)Divide the grams of calcium/kg by the kcal/kg for the food. That gives you the grams of calcium/kcal.
    3)Multiply the grams of calcium/kcal by 1000/1000. That gives you grams of calcium/1000kcal.

    Ive calculated food that say the max calcium is 1.5% but after the calculations the food was over the 3.5g of calcium per 1000kcal’

    This is exactly why I’m still so uncomfortable feeding raw to my large breed pups! The whole point it doing it is to give them the best nutrition but if I screw up the calcium/phosphorus ratio etc I’ve just caused a problem that could be serious. And it seems fairly complicated to get it right. I’ve used a couple of books that are helpful but I can’t ask specific questions. This forum has helped tremendously but I’m still so insecure about it. Looking forward to the Raw Feeding Web Conference next weekend.

    In the meantime does anyone know a good place to get nutritional values for various meats that include the bone, as well as green tripe etc? I found a website that I can use to add ingredients and get total values but, of course, the only items already in the database do not contain bone, etc. There’s a small fee if you want to do more than 3 recipes but if it help me get this right, it’s worth it :).

    in reply to: Suggested Raw Dog Food Menus? #33847 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    Thank RDM and Patty.

    I guess I should didn’t explain well enough. I used the veggies as an example. Since that proportion was off from what I had read elsewhere I wondered if it meant I was mis-reading the recipe and should’ve been dividing the meat by three but using other veggies/supplements in the AM meal ‘per dog’ which would then affect the calcium etc. But it sounds like I’ve been following them correctly so I feel better on that score. The Becker diets do seem heavy on the veggies but until I really feel better about my own calculations, I feel I need to follow some recipes. And trying to figure out amounts is still a struggle. But thanks to this forum I can at least ask questions and feel confident in the answers!

    in reply to: Suggested Raw Dog Food Menus? #33829 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    So I’ve been doing this for about 2-1/2 weeks now and I’m still concerned that I’m not balancing the calcium/phosphorus ratio for my large breed pups. Trying to follow (as closely as possible) a couple of HDMs meal plans from early in this topic but at various times I’m substituting which makes me uncomfortable. Anyway, one question I have, after a lot of reading, etc., particularly Dr. Becker’s book, is whether or not I’m following the earlier recipes correctly. HDM lists a morning mix, she divides between three dogs. Is it just the meat that is divided or the whole thing? The reason I ask is that the veggie mix is quite a bit lower than Dr. Becker’s suggested diets if I divide one cup between 3 dogs per day. So is it one cup per dog per day? And if that’s true for veggies, what about other supplements?

    This would be so much easier if my dogs were adults and at a relatively stable weight, without special large breed and puppy needs :/ Every time I think I have a good grasp and things are going well, I just come up with more questions.

    Thanks in advance.

    in reply to: Feeding Raw (non-commercial) to Large Breed Puppies #33692 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    I’ve been catching a lot info about commercial raw as I research whole food or DIY raw. According to what I’ve read some, including NV, include denaturants. They may not add it themselves but it’s there when they get it. At least that is the info I found from 2012. Bravo does not as theirs is essentially fit for human consumption. I believe Primal is the same. I would like to see DFA include this info when evaluating a dog food. Also some raw food providers sell denatured meat. If it’s a concern for you, just be sure to check your provider.

    MPC clearly states that theirs does not. And I checked with RPI and they do not use denatured meats. Looks like Big Dan’s Trucking does.

    Anyone have more info?

    in reply to: Feeding Raw (non-commercial) to Large Breed Puppies #33689 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    Well said Patty! I love my vet. But when it comes to feeding, they just seem to be following the typical path.

    I started on this quest because EVERY single dog I’ve had in the last 30+ years died from cancer of a digestive organ. And they were on higher end kibble. There has to be a reason and diet is obviously the first consideration. Even though several of my dogs lived a ‘normal’ life span for their breed, some did not. And how do we know that normal wouldn’t be higher if all dogs ate raw and/or natural diets?

    Since first discovering this forum when I wanted to find the best foods for my new puppy (months before he came to us), I have spent uncountable hours researching raw vs kibble and have found so much evidence supporting raw that I can’t imagine any other reason (except the one Patty mentions) for the AVMA to have a problem with it. Because even though I’m sure there are some feeding raw that aren’t fully balancing the diet and must choose lower grade food and less variety as they feed their beloved pets, I still cannot believe what they’re doing is more harmful than some comparably priced kibbles.

    What has most impressed me is the obvious interest and care raw food proponents have shown in searching for the best they can provide for their pets AND their willingness to educate others. Most I’ve come into contact with are intelligent people who spend many, many hours researching and preparing the best food possible. I have yet to see one of them disparage another pet owner for feeding kibble etc. They have, instead, recommended the best possible kibble for their price point and offer suggestions for rotation etc to get as much benefit as possible.

    Which reminds me to say thanks once again to all the wonderful people on this forum–Patty, HDM, RDM and many others–that spend time answering so many questions from others (me included) who are just learning about better nutrition for their dogs.

    in reply to: Feeding Raw (non-commercial) to Large Breed Puppies #33641 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    Sharon,
    I’m beginning to wonder if this winter will ever end! Though it sounds like you’re having a rougher time of it than we are in St. Louis. And it sounds like you must be in a fairly rural location. But I think pulling out some of your less expensive cuts to get by is a good idea since you’ve already made a start towards raw. That’s just my two cents from a novice raw-feeder! The stories about your Maine Coon are priceless. I can almost see him as I read. Except for the obvious physical differences his personality reminds me of our tuxedo cat, Gizmo.

    As far as managing the bones etc. based on what I’ve read I wouldn’t worry about one feeding or even several but trying to balance it over a week? Maybe longer since Mystery isn’t a puppy? I try to be more careful of the Calcium/Phosphorus ratios with two large breed, fast growing puppies because in a week they can grow significantly and in a month, one of them could easily gain another 10 pounds!

    Good luck with the snow and food. Try to stay warm and dry. And keep me posted!

    in reply to: Feeding Raw (non-commercial) to Large Breed Puppies #33619 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    Thanks RDM! The temperament is so sweet. They really want to please and are very smart. Good luck with your decision. I couldn’t be happier. Though I pretty much love all dogs so it would be hard to disappoint me :).

    Sharon, how are things going? I keep reading about the 80/10/10 ratio, etc. but I kept wondering how do you determine the amount of bone they’re getting. Finally found a few links that help and here’s what I found (reposted from a FB group I belong to)

    Chicken:
    Broiler or Fryer whole, meat and skin and giblets and neck 31%
    back, meat and skin 44%
    breast, meat and skin 20%
    drumstick, meat and skin 33%
    thigh, meat and skin 21%
    leg, meat and skin 27%
    neck, meat and skin 36%
    neck, meat only 75%
    wing, meat and skin 46%
    wing, meat only 68%
    Capon 27%
    Cornish Hen 39% no neck/giblets
    Roaster 27%
    Stewing 32% ( 27% bone, 5% separable fat)

    ribs (pork or lamb) – 45%
    ribs (veal) – 35%

    Lamb:
    Shoulder – 25%
    whole leg – 15%

    Pork:
    Feet-30%
    Tail-30%
    Shoulder-25%
    Butt-10%

    Turkey:
    Turkey Back – 41% bone (with skin removed 51%)
    Turkey neck – 42% bone
    Turkey breast – 10% bone
    Turkey wing – 33% bone
    Turkey leg – 17% bone
    Whole turkey – 21% bone

    To calculate the amount of bone in a piece of meat you multiply the weight of the whole piece by the percentage of bone. For example, if you are feeding a 5lb whole chicken, you will multiply 5 x the percent bone for that piece. So 5 x .31= 1.55. That means there is 1.55lbs of bone in that whole chicken. You don’t need to calculate this for every meal, but a good rule of thumb is that 30%-50% of your dog’s diet should be made up of meat with edible bone. More if you are feeding meaty pieces like leg quarters and breasts and less if you are feeding bony pieces like ribs. (Written by Briana Alford)

    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    RescueDaneMom, (Sorry, everyone, I know this is off topic) Here’s a recent photo of Loki and Michonne (please ignore the back yard). Loki is a 7-month old 84-pound male (breeder said he’s probably the largest she’s ever had, so not exactly representative of the breed) and Michonne is a 4-month old 40-pound female. I cannot praise the breed or breeder enough. Mine came from Solace Shilohs in Seattle. We have always had GSDs (some rescues, some from breeders) but after losing the last ones, I decided to try to find a breed without all the potential health issues. It seems like we always ended up with the ones that had something rare yet still specific to GSDs. So I researched (primarily on dogbreedinfo.com) and came up with the Shiloh. All the great qualities of GSDs but breeding is carefully controlled to attempt to eliminate as many as possible. Of course, we get Loki who ends up with a heart problem. We must be a magnet for dogs that need special care.

    Loki is so huge, not sure if his ears will stand but guessing they will, just later than normal as he still has a lot of growing to do. Anticipate 140 to 150 pounds as his adult weight. Michonne is much more the norm and will probably be about 110. And they are SO enjoying their new diet! We have an older GSD to transition, then the two cats. Also any number of 21-23 years old when home from college and my 86-year-old mom and 4 horses at a boarding stable. Thus the Zoo 🙂

    And here’s a link to other photos on my Phanfare page for the dogs:
    http://albums.phanfare.com/isolated/7Xjb0XLd/1/6201469

     photo IMG_0041-2_zps73b272d5.jpg

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 10 months ago by Sue's Zoo.
    in reply to: Feeding Raw (non-commercial) to Large Breed Puppies #33399 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    Sharon, Just reading through posts. Congrats to you and Mystery!! I’m maybe a week or so ahead of you. And it’s starting to get easier. This site, plus the books Patty mentions above, are great support and encouragement. Please keep me posted on your progress, challenges etc and how you address them.

    Seems like my biggest challenges, other than stressing over getting the right amounts for my particular pups, is thawing time and cleanup. If I haven’t planned ahead I won’t have the right items thawed so that I can put meals together. And I’ve washed my hands so many times within a short period that they are incredibly red and raw. I got some rubber gloves but then I’m taking them off frequently and it’s a hassle too. I keep telling myself that once I get a good system down most of these issues will work themselves out. Oh and my first MPC order wasn’t as complete as it needed to be so I’m running to the store for missing items.

    But my pups are in heaven!! Which makes it all worthwhile.

    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    Found this raw feeding calculator on rawpaws.org website. Looks nice. Would like opinion for other, more experienced/knowledgeable raw feeders please. Also if anyone has personal experience with rawpaws.org.

    http://www.rawpaws.org/display/main/Raw+Feeding+Calculator

    Thanks!

    in reply to: Feeding Raw (non-commercial) to Large Breed Puppies #33250 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    Sharon,

    Dr. Frick had good general information but she doesn’t have a dog and isn’t doing it so not much in the way of practical advice. She did add a few supplements because one of my pups, Loki, has pulmonary stenosis so she gave some things to help his heart. She is looking over the actual meal plans and going to provide recommendations. She thought it all looked very good (I brought in a few of HDM’s meal plans from early in the Feeding Raw topic. She did say that it would be better to customize the herb and fruit supplements based on what each dog needs. And we discussed ways to do that. I’m going to take all the actual ones I use in and go over them with her next week.

    I signed up for the Dogs Naturally conference. Thanks so much for providing that info. I’m looking forward to it and wish it was sooner! Not sure where you live. I placed my first order thru MyPetCarnivore.com. They make deliveries to various areas once a month, plus you can get orders delivered UPS but only when desperate as shipping for that type of delivery is expensive. I also found another place called rawpaws.org. They also run deliveries to several areas but I think both of these are primarily midwest US. Another frequently mentioned on this site is hare-today.com I haven’t looked into their shipping fees etc. I know they do ship fedex and UPS but no idea what it costs. I’ve also been able to find chicken backs and gizzards at Whole Foods; gizzards, liver, turkey necks at a local grocery store.

    I will go through more of my info from Dr. Frick once I’ve had some time to digest and after we go over some specific diets etc next week.

    in reply to: Feeding Raw (non-commercial) to Large Breed Puppies #33166 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    Thanks Sharon, Patty and all research from HDM! It’s so good to have someone near the same point with feeding raw etc. It’s such a challenge! Can’t wait to check out the raw roundup internet conference. Thanks so much for sharing that. I too have used some frozen raw (Primal…and yes it’s VERY expensive) and will continue that when things are crazy here or I’m on vacation etc. but I really want to do the more natural whole raw most of the time.

    I actually made the jump last week. Primarily because I found a specialist vet in our area that is holistic and does nutrition counseling for raw etc and figured I couldn’t do much harm in a week. I have an appointment with her tomorrow so I decided to start with some of HDMs raw diets from the beginning of the thread. (Wow!! A LOT of work!) But I’m convinced this vet can provide support because she helped so much with our GSD several years ago. He was such an awesome GSD but somewhere between 7 and 8 years old he started showing signs of DM (degenerative myelopathy). Our traditional vet gave us 6 months max with him but a friend recommended Dr. Ava Frick so we took Baron to see her. Thanks to Dr. Frick and stim therapy, acupuncture and natural supplements we were blessed to have a full 18 QUALITY months with our boy. So I checked with her and found that she does do nutrition counseling etc.

    Both pups are going to see her tomorrow so we can discuss raw diets and the best way for them to get the best nutrition possible. All our dogs, other than Baron, died from some form of cancer affecting the digestive organs. Can’t help but feel that diet was the primary factor. So I’m determined to do anything in my power to provide these pups with quality food and life.

    Have to say I’ve been overwhelmed a lot during the last week but I’m glad I started ahead of time. So many more questions to ask from a much more ‘real world’ vantage point! The younger pup is barely over 4 months but does pretty good with chicken backs. I will relax with it much more in the next 3 to 4 weeks as she gain her adult teeth. She just worries me with the way she attacks her food! The older male (all of 7 months) is more mellow in many ways and will lay on his rug with a turkey neck or chicken back and take time to enjoy it. But I have to say it’s a lot like watching my kids eat a meal I’ve prepared. Very fulfilling 🙂

    BTW, we have all hardwood floors so I have struggled with feeding spots and found that the one that works best for me (us) is a large machine washable rug per dog covered with a large bath sheet (towel). The rug keeps the towel in place and most of the time I can just wash the towels and re-use. The rug beneath only needs an occasional wash.

    I will post what I hear from Dr. Frick after the visit tomorrow. And I will also include some of the challenges I’ve hit over the last week along with any suggestions to help address them.

    in reply to: Suggested Raw Dog Food Menus? #32903 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    I have everything I need and it’s ready to go, following a couple of HDM’s meal plans listed early in this topic but I’m still holding off because I am struggling with amounts to feed. HDM makes up enough for her 3 dogs (assuming adult bloodhounds??) So I’m trying to figure out how to break that down for my two Shilohs that are still puppies, 7 mos @ 85 lbs and 4 mos @ 42 lbs. I did find a holistic vet in our area and I’ve scheduled an appointment for the middle of next week but I’m so READY to get going. I realize I probably can’t do much harm in a week but I guess I’m a little anal about it. If anyone has suggestions I’d appreciate the feedback. Will also do as Patty suggested and reply to HDM on the off-topic thread and ask her to take a look.

    Thanks everyone.

    in reply to: Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition #32427 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    So here’s the first order I’m planning to put in on MPC. Any feedback before I purchase? Feeding a 90lb 7 month old and a 40 pound 3 month old. Hoping this lasts at least a month after adding some chicken backs and veggie mix, etc. Planning to start looking for less expensive local options for at least some products but going an easier, faster route to get started.

    Box of Turkey Necks-30 LB.

    Turkey Hearts-3 LB.

    Chicken Hearts-2 LB.

    Chicken Feet

    Chicken Liver-1 LB.

    Green Beef Tripe Strips/Chunks-5 LB.

    Ground Beef Organ Mix-2 LB.

    Beef Trachea

    Ground Beef Trachea & Gullet-2 LB.

    5 LB. Ground Whole YOUNG Beef

    Ground Chicken without Giblets-2 LB.

    All-Meat Ground Deer-10 LB.

    Total: $419.75

    Thanks.

    in reply to: Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition #32392 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    Thanks again Patty!

    One other question…does anyone know if HDM evaluated Bravo! Raw food? It’s not on her list (and it is a 5-star rated food) but I’m unsure if that’s because it didn’t meet criteria, wasn’t checked or weren’t responsive when questioned. Though I am planning to eventually DIY I’m looking for a reasonably priced alternative in the meantime.

    Again, can’t thank everyone enough for the advice on this forum.

    in reply to: k9instinct anyone? #32344 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    Glad you mentioned that. I use an app called Evernote for keeping info from websites, etc. I will start adding thins I want to remember to a new Evernote Notebook. If you haven’t tried it and you use a computer much at all, I highly recommend it. (start at http://www.evernote.com

    in reply to: Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition #32341 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    First, thank you so much HDM for taking time to respond and Patty for helping out. I guess I did realize the c:p ratio was still important but was hoping it might be somewhat automatic when feeding raw. And from your response it seems like that is the case IF I get the balance correct between organ, muscle/tissue, and bone. And there are several ways to accomplish that–grinds, RMBs, Tripe mixes, etc. I guess at this point I just want the simplest way to get started, which ideally would be someone saying: feed this, then this, etc. 🙂 while I read and re-read all your info and additional recommended resources to educate myself and become more confident in creating my own meals. I did see some of your info under raw feeding giving your dogs various diets over a period of time. I’m going to look at those more closely because I think it’s what I need to kickstart the program. I just wasn’t sure if those contained all the necessary nutrition for large breed PUPPIES (as well as adult dogs). So thanks again for your response.

    I think I may start with MPC as I look for less expensive routes for the future. Considering what I pay for just doing half Primal (chicken, beef, rabbit and venison) plus top end kibble/canned (rotating Wellness CORE Puppy/Earthborn Coastal Catch/Halo Surf n Turf, plus a daily can of FROMM Gold rotating proteins), with these pups, I can’t imagine it’s going to be much more…I hope. And I’m going to get a freezer (checking CL today)

    And lastly, for now, you mentioned books. I have the Ancestral Diet book. I’ve noticed Dr. Becker’s is recommended in several places so I plan to get it. Are you familiar with Raw Dog Food by Carina Beth MacDonald? Any others you could recommend to help me jump in quickly?

    So happy to have found this site. I’m sure I’ll have many more questions over the next few months. Learning so much from you and some others. And I’m a skeptic so I don’t trust everything I read on the internet. But just by reading your posts it’s obvious you’ve done the research and know what you’re talking about.

    in reply to: Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition #32322 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
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    Thanks again Patty. I will continue to research in the meantime.

    in reply to: Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition #32309 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
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    Currently feeding my 6 month old shiloh half raw (Primal) and getting ready to move the 3 month old to raw as well. I want to switch to full raw but cost is prohibitive with commercial foods so I’ve decided to order my MPC and do it myself.

    My concerns are:

    -Do I still need to consider kcal and calcium/phosphorus ratio? If so how on earth would I calculate it?

    -If someone has experience with this do you think it will be completely overwhelming to keep everything ordered in proper quantities with two very fast-growing pups? The older is now 85 pounds and the younger is 40.

    -Should I wait til younger pups adult teeth are in (raw meaty bones)?

    I really want to do it but feeling a bit overwhelmed. (Maybe I need a topic for feeding non-commercial raw to large breed puppies!) Also posting under Raw Feeding topic.

    in reply to: k9instinct anyone? #32306 Report Abuse
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    I actually tried to go through a couple of the forums that are relevant for my situation and pull out the significant information into a document. FAIL! If I had endless time (which means not having two large breed pups and an adult GSD!) I’d love to do it.

    Would be great if some of the major contributors in various areas would do an FAQ (raw feeding, Feeding Large Breed Puppies are my big interests-hint hint). Or even get a few together and do your own ebook and charge a fee for it. I know I’d pay as I’ve been so impressed with the knowledge and experience of several contributors.

    Just my 2 cents.

    in reply to: k9instinct anyone? #32301 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
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    Thanks Patty. I noticed they were offering special pricing of all 4 books for $25C so I just decided to do it. All the information on this site (DFA) is amazing but for me it’s difficult to digest because it’s in so many bits and pieces. I need it consolidated in one place, at least to get started. I’m sure I’ll be back here when I have specific questions.

    So far the first several pages have been interesting and useful as they’re explaining why a raw diet is so beneficial. Very detailed info regarding digestion, anatomy, benefits of raw but written so a lay-person can understand.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 11 months ago by Sue's Zoo.
    in reply to: Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition #30455 Report Abuse
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    Is anyone familiar with the k9instinct website? Looks interesting but would like more info before investing in their resources. Looks like a good site to help with feeding raw without spending a fortune.
    http://www.k9instinct.com/

    in reply to: Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition #28640 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
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    I have benefitted from so much information in this thread. Thanks to all the contributors. I am trying to track down info for OCRaw dog food. I’ve emailed twice to get the calcium info but have had no response. And I don’t see a phone number on the website. It would cost significantly less to feed but unless I can verify calcium levels I won’t use it. Does anyone have info about OCRaw dog food or another way contact?

    Thanks!

    in reply to: Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition #28065 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
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    I have a large breed puppy, Shiloh Shepherd. He’s 55 pounds at 4-1/2 months. With much help from information on this forum I’m feeding him half kibble (rotating between Wellness Core Puppy, Earthborn Holistic Coastal Catch, Halo Spot’s Stew Surf N Turf) and half raw (Primal and OCRraw) as well as a probiotic and supplement. He seems to be doing very well. I’m currently feeding him 5.5 cups of food per day but I’m going to increase it, at least temporarily, as he still seems hungry all the time. I’m also feeding him three times a day at this point.

    My question–up to what age is it recommended to feed 3 times a day? I wonder if feeding him fewer, larger meals if he would be better satisfied.

    Also, does anyone know if there’s a way to search the forums on this site? There’s a search box on the initial forum page but nothing for individual topics that I can see. They’re packed with such great information but I’m sure many questions are repeated and information missed because it’s so hard to find out which issues have already been addressed.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 1 month ago by Sue's Zoo.
    in reply to: Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition #23185 Report Abuse
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    Thanks again HDM for all the great advice. I visited a high end food shop with a very good friend/dog trainer/vet tech today. She knows the owner. He recommended OC Raw. It’s not on your recommended list but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen it mentioned on this thread. But it’s almost impossible to search unless I’ve missed something. I did ask about the kcals and a some are under your suggested limit and it’s a 5 star food on DFA. Can you please give me your impressions (again?)?

    in reply to: Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition #22947 Report Abuse
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    As much as I would love to feed all RAW, my puppy (and the next one we plan to get this fall) would end up costing about $800 a month on Primal when they’re only half grown!! That’s based on Primal’s feeding calculator on their webpage.

    50lb puppy eating anything but beef requires a minimum of 14lbs/week (beef is 10lb/week). Best pricing is at PetFoodDirect averages approximately $40/6lb bag. So about $100/week! And that’s for one dog that’s only half grown.

    Am I calculating something incorrectly??

    Definitely will have to combine with kibble. But then I am totally confused about how much to feed! Please help!!

    in reply to: Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition #22782 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
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    Thanks for the link EHubbman, and the tip on mypetcarnivore! I will check them out.

    in reply to: Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition #22776 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
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    I’m having trouble finding any raw brands locally except Primal and Stella and Chewy’s. I’m in St. Louis, MO. Does anyone know where I can find K9 Kraving or some of the other raw brands either locally or online? AlphaDogSpecialties.com carries K9 but can’t ship the frozen and they’re in Maryland. And is it recommended to rotate raw brands or is that more important with kibble?

    in reply to: Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition #22775 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
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    Thanks very much, hdm. I will check out the supplements you mentioned.

    in reply to: Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition #22671 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    Hi hdm, pattyvaughn, and all the other wonderful contributors and questioners,

    I’ve been reading and re-reading various posts in this informative forum topic. I’m love to have a way to print the topic and pull out all the info into a single document. May have to work on that

    Anyway I will soon have my new puppy, a Shiloh Shepherd. We’ve always had GSDs, the last several we’re rescues but we went thru a breeder this time and I want to do everything possible to raise a healthy happy dog. My husband said I need grandkids based on how excited I am about this pup true but none of the kids are even remotely ready to be parents so….

    Finally my questions. My breeder recommends a supplement called The Missing Link. Is anyone familiar with it? Thoughts, concerns? And I plan to feed raw or a combination of raw and kibble but l need to know if there’s a nutritional difference between freeze-dried and frozen. In other words are the ones on the list referring to frozen only or either?

    Sending positive thoughts to pattyvaughn and anyone else awaiting test results.

    in reply to: Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition #22036 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    This is such a great post. Thanks so much for all the great info. Since it’s a long one I may have missed something so I apologize if this has already been asked/answered.

    I don’t see any wet foods on the recommended foods list. Is there a reason those are excluded?

    Also I don’t see anything on the list that specifies that it’s for puppies. I assumed it is since it’s in this post but I’d like to verify if it’s for large breed puppies or also adult large breed dogs.

    Getting our Shiloh Shepherd puppy in less than 3 weeks! So excited! It’s been almost 15 years since we had a puppy in the house as most were rescues that were 3-4 years old. We lost 2 this past spring, one in February, the next in March. Time for some puppy love 🙂

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