[hamish]

FYI if a company does business in Europe and has a European version of their website they have to list what percentage each ingredient is for anything 10% and over. It’s a great way to have a better idea of exactly what comprises the kibble.

[hamish]

Fair enough. 4 of the 5 largest pet foods companies were implicated as well and Pets Global has never had a recall which I can’t say the same for the largest companies. This isn’t a facility quality issue. It’s an ingredients issue pure and simple. We’re all sitting here thinking, “I wish they’d make a formula with the same stuff and protein content as the grain free but replace the legumes with good grains,” and then when they do call it a tactic. Every company on your list makes a grain free option full of peas but they probably account for no more than .001% of the market combined which is more than likely the only reason they weren’t implicated in the FDA findings.

[hamish]

I’ve got one more for you Robert which I’ll likely end up trying myself. Essence dog food’s new Limited ingredient line.

Here’s their Landfowl Recipe:

TURKEY, CHICKEN, TURKEY MEAL, CHICKEN MEAL, QUINOA, PUMPKIN, CHICKEN FAT (PRESERVED WITH MIXED TOCOPHEROLS), NATURAL TURKEY FLAVOR, POTASSIUM CHLORIDE, SALT, CHOLINE CHLORIDE, DL-METHIONINE, TAURINE, VITAMINS (VITAMIN A ACETATE, VITAMIN D3 SUPPLEMENT, VITAMIN E SUPPLEMENT, NIACIN SUPPLEMENT, D-CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, THIAMINE MONONITRATE, PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, RIBOFLAVIN SUPPLEMENT, FOLIC ACID, VITAMIN B12 SUPPLEMENT), KELP, MINERALS (ZINC PROTEINATE, IRON PROTEINATE, COPPER PROTEINATE, MANGANESE PROTEINATE, SODIUM SELENITE, CALCIUM IODATE)

• This reply was modified 4 years, 8 months ago by hamish.

[hamish]

Robert, you can add Firstmate, Holistic Select, Sport Dog Food, and Annamaet to your list. Here’s the tough part that people are forgetting. Alfalfa is a legume. Alfalfa meal is in a lot of “grain friendly” dog foods. It’s almost impossible to find a food without some type of legume. Recheck your list and see if alfalfa meal is in the ingredients. Fortunately, the alfalfa meal is so far down the list it shouldn’t be a problem.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 8 months ago by hamish.

[hamish]

Your dogs are living so long because the only pure bred you have is a very small breed which live the longest out of all dogs. Your other dogs are mutts and two of them are medium to medium small border collie mutts. A Border Collies’ average life expectancy can go to 17 years. That’s before you get to the fact that they’re mutts and have the least worry about genetic problems. You’re making up a reason when the reason is clear as day right in front of you, all the while being an irresponsible pet owner.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by hamish.
• This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by hamish.
• This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by hamish.

[hamish]

nvm

• This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by hamish.

[hamish]

Nature’s Logic doesn’t meet AAFCO nutritional guidelines if that means anything to you.

[hamish]

Farmina and Nature’s Logic both use alfalfa meal which is a legume. Certainly not as much as a typical grain free but it’s there.

[hamish]

Hey I’m right there with you. I prefer grains over peas, potatoes, and legumes. I just wish grain friendly food was made across the board like grain free food is. You’re not doing your dog any favors feeding them a 20% protein kibble with the first ingredients being some combination of corn, sorghum, and brewers rice and effectively giving them meat flavored bread. You’re trading heart failure for other complications that we just write off as oh the dog’s getting old because we’ve been feeding those foods for so long. There have been plenty of posts on here linking to clinical studies of the affects of high grain low protein dog foods that I don;t need to repeat. Farmina has grain friendly products and 90% of the protein comes from animal sources. I guess since they’re from Europe they’re obliged to also put the percentage of the kibble that the ingredients make up. Looking at one label 48% of the kibbles makeup, at least when wet, is meat. Followed by 20% of grains. All in a guaranteed analysis 30% protein kibble. First Mate also makes grain friendly kibble. Their chicken an oats formula has 75% of its protein from animals and 25% from grain in a 28% protein kibble. Dr Tim’s had an ancient grains formula with 32% guaranteed analysis protein that they discontinued right when the grain free news started. I wish they never did it was a great kibble. So there are options out there. They’re just harder to find because they’re not en vogue right now.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by hamish.

[hamish]

@crazy4cats

But the big 3 have grain free SKUs with the exact same ingredients everyone is worried about in them. Purina has no less than 14 SKUs loaded with legumes and potatoes in place of grains. Even some of their prescription vet formulated kibble does and they’re still being sold. This is before you branch out to the other brands they own outside of the Purina name. A lot of good the years of canine nutrition and PHD veterinarian nutritionists did. By your logic the fact that Purina puts out those products should be a green light for everyone to purchase grain free dog food. The truth is no company saw this coming or even knows what the exact problem is.

You’re also not considering any other factors. Here’s one. Grain free foods, especially of the boutique variety, cost a hell of a lot more than a bag of kibbles and bits. Who’s more likely to have pet insurance for their dog? Who’s more likely to spare no expense going down the rabbit hole of their dogs illness when the pup is on death’s door. Who’s more likely to say do whatever you need to do to save my dogs life? Who’s more likely to take their dog to a specialist when a problem arises instead of the town vet? Who’s more likely to say keep going than putting their dog down when the vet says what the problem is and the costs are? Who’s more likely to do each of those things between a person who spends $20 on a 50 pound bag of Kibbles n Bits or someone who spends $130 on a bag of Orijen Tundra half the size.

We just don’t know yet. Years ago no one had autism now 1 in 60 kids in the USA is on the spectrum. You know why? Not vaccines. It’s because we test for it now and are much more sophisticated in our awareness of it. This could be peas. This could be potatoes. Or it could be that people that buy boutique foods are more likely to have more disposable income resulting in them more likely to have pet insurance or more likely to spend any amount necessary to save their dog. Which would result in bringing the dog to a place that’s going to go down the rabbit hole and ultimately report the issue. How many dogs do you think die of DCM but we don’t know because the owner takes them to the vet, vet has a listen, and says, “I know it’s heart failure but if you wanna find out exactly what’s wrong it’s gonna cost a lot of money. Best to just put the dog down.”

This is all before we look at who the owner’s got the dog from. Did they get it from a responsible breeder or did they get it from a puppy mill breeder that put on a good show and is pumping out dogs whose parents showed signs of heart failure or was over-breeding dogs from the same line? What else do these people feed their dogs? Are the dogs exercised and taken care of? That’s why this is going to take so long to figure out. There are so many other factors to isolate before we get to the food.

We just don’t know.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by hamish.

[hamish]

Cool! I’ll take a look!

[Author]

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