[M N]

I guess I should have specified. The new puppy will also be another German Wirehaired Pointer. Mature weight is likely to be 55-65lbs, although an 80lb GWP is not unheard of, that kind of size is unlikely in this litter.

[M N]

I will first admit that I have not read this entire thread. I have however read large portions of it, as well as many other articles on this topic.

I currently have a 1.5 year old German Wirehaired Pointer. I have had him on Victor Nutra Pro for about 4 months now (switched from TOTW) and he has been doing very well on it. I currently have no complaints whatsoever (well, I would be even happier if it was a bit cheaper, but I don’t think that counts).

I am getting another puppy shortly. Ideally, I would like to feed both dogs the same food. Any opinions on Nutra Pro for a large breed puppy?

3.5g Ca/kCal, 1.2:1 Ca:P

But, at 38%, protein is considerably higher than other large breed puppy foods…

Protein 38.53 %
Fat 20.81 %
Fiber 3.17 %
Carbohydrates
“Calculated” 22.6 %
Moisture 7.95 %
Ash 8.03 %
Calcium 1.38 %
Phosphorus 1.16 %
Cal/Phos Ratio 1.2 Ratio:1
Magnesium 0.14 %
Potassium 0.624 %
Sodium 0.33 %
Zinc 198 mg/kg
Iron 325 mg/kg
Copper 17 mg/kg
Cobalt 0.2 mg/kg
Iodine 2.2 mg/kg
Manganese 44 mg/kg
Selenium 0.42 mg/kg
Vitamin A 13780 IU/kg
Vitamin D3 1145 IU/kg
Vitamin E 180 IU/kg
Vitamin B12 0.09 mg/kg
Riboflavin 6.8 mg/kg
D-Pantothenic
Acid 22 mg/kg
Niacin 75 mg/kg
Folic Acid 1.27 mg/kg
Pyridoxine B6 4.10 mg/kg
Thiamine 10.15 mg/kg
Biotin B7 0.23 mg/kg
Ascorbic Acid 47 mg/kg
Choline 2100 mg/kg
Taurine 1400 mg/kg
Omega 3 0.45 %
Omega 6 2.6 %
DHA 0.16 %
L-Carnitine 60 mg/kg
Calories On Bag 3909 kcal/kg
Calories per Cup on Bag 475 kcal/cup

https://victorpetfood.com/product-items/nutra-pro/?portfolioCats=164%2C165%2C135%2C134%2C133%2C153%2C159%2C160

[M N]

Thanks for the input.

A couple things…

I have heard several times about rotating foods, and I am certainly open to that. For those of you who do rotate, do you switch cold turkey between brands? I don’t want to have 2 or more open bags of food at once… I have switched flavors within brands cold turkey with no issues.

The biggest reason I am looking at the calcium and phosphorus levels of the “new” foods is because I do have another pup coming this fall. I would like to feed them both the same food as I really don’t want to have 2 open bags of food if I can avoid it.

I don’t think I will be switching to a maintenance formula as we don’t really have an “off season.” We do field and water training April-August, Hunting season runs September – December. He runs free for 20-30 minutes 5-7 times a day (we live in the country). In the summer we also do weekly hikes where I will cover 3-8 miles, and since he is “free” while doing this he will cover probably 3x that. We will start using a roading harness and dragging weight for at least a portion of these hikes in the next month or so. We don’t hike during hunting season, instead we hunt both upland and waterfowl several days a week. In the winter we snowshoe (again he is free to run while I follow the trails). The only time he has held a “5” on the condition scale for longer than a week was January through April when we were only running 3-4 times a month and he was eating a 32/18 . This is also why all the foods I am looking at are all 3600+ kcal/kg.

I didn’t even think about the amount of heavy metals that could be in the fish formulas. I suppose it makes sense though. Humans are cautioned on consuming too much fish for the same reason. I was not familiar with the CLP, unfortunately none of the brands I was looking at are listed.

I am not dead set on grain free, but I do want to limit the amount of grain I feed. I would be interested in hearing more about which grains have a high bio-availability for dogs.

I appreciate the additional brand suggestions as well. I have heard nothing but good things about Dr Tim’s and there are several formulas that I think would work for me, however it is not available locally and at $70 for a 40lb bag from Chewy it is cost prohibitive. I have looked at a lot of “premium” brands including Nutro, Canidae, Acana, Blue Buffalo, Wellness, Royal Canin, Orijen, and Merrick… Most were eliminated from serious consideration due to lack of local availability, cost, or simply not having a blend with the nutritional requirements I am looking for. It seems there are not many premium “performance” formulas out there.

Anyone see any issues with the brands/formulas I am looking at? Any other recommendations of similar foods?

[M N]

Louise, I appreciate your input. I think you may have the food I mentioned confused with something else…

Salmon Meal, Menhaden Fish Meal, Dried Potato, Dried Peas, Sweet Potato, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Potato Protein, Flaxseed Meal, Brewers Dried Yeast, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Dried Egg Product, Canola Oil, Natural Flavors, Salt, Lecithin, Choline Chloride, Dried Chicory Root, L-Carnitine, Dried Carrots, Dried Cranberries, Dried Blueberries, Yucca Schidigera extract, Ascorbic Acid, Minerals (Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Vitamins (Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement), Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Yeast Culture, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Extract, Dried Trichoderma Longibrachiatum Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract.

Metabolized Energy – AS FED- 1835 kcal/lb
Crude Protein Minimum 32.0%
Crude Fat Minimum 18.0%
Crude Fiber Maximum 5.5%
Total Ash 8.2%
Moisture Maximum 12.0%
Calcium Minimum 1.2%
Phosphorous Minimum 1.0%
Average Calcium 1.29%
Average Phosphorus 1.03%
Vitamin A Minimum 10,000 Iu/Kg
Vitamin E Minimum 80 Iu/Kg
Chondroitin Minimum 90 Mg/Kg*
Glucosamine Minimum 120 Mg/Kg*
DHA Minimum 0.05%*
EPA Minimum 0.01%*
Vitamin C Minimum 25 Mg/Kg*
Omega-6 Fatty Acid Minimum 3.5%*
Omega-3 Fatty Acid Minimum 1.5%*

Black Gold does have some grain inclusive formulas that do not interest me. They list digestibility for those in the low to mid 80s, which is what I would expect from a grain inclusive food.

[M N]

I peaked at the Nutrisource formulas. IMO there is not a significant enough difference between them and the TOTW I am feeding now to justify the 30% price increase.

However, I dug pretty deep into the Sportdog Elite formulas, as well as the Black Gold Salmon formula. KCal/KG, protein/fat ratios, carbs, and cost to feed are all very close to the TOTW that I have been feeding (within $12 a month from the cheapest to the most expensive). However, they do have calcium and phosphorous levels that I feel are more appropriate for a young, “large breed” dog. The Omega ratio also looks better, and they have lower ash content (which is expected due to the higher calcium/phosphorous levels in the TOTW).

I would have to order the Sportdog, and I get a pretty substantial discount on Black Gold and TOTW locally which makes the Black Gold about $150 a year cheaper for me to feed. Black Gold also claims the highest digestibility (96% VS TOTW 87%, and “high” from Sportdog). Smaller puppy piles are always a nice bonus…

I think unless I can find some substantial reason not to, I am going to try the Black Gold, and consider a rotation with Sportdog…

[M N]

I appreciate the input. Unfortunately Verus is not available locally, and I don’t see any high protein/sporting dog formulas.

I took a quick peek at Sport Dog, I like what I see, I will be digging deeper.

I am actually in the process of building a spread sheet that compares nutrition, digestibility, cost, etc… Its been pretty enlightening as I dig into these brands…. The Black Gold is pretty interesting, especially with their claimed 31.5% Carbs and 96% digestibility. Victor is saying 85% digestibility for Nutra-Pro, and 90% for Hero…

[M N]

A couple others I am considering:

http://victorpetfood.com/products/dog/victor-grain-free/ultra-pro/

http://victorpetfood.com/products/dog/victor-grain-free/hero-canine/

[Author]

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