Forum Replies Created
perhaps read my post to Patti. You mention the fish kibble seems to work best..maybe it is the protein? I assume the others you tried had protein other than fish – such as the chicken you mention or beef which is common?
My gal seems to do equally well on either grain free or regular salmon based food. beef seems the worst for her. Due to the concerns regarding “grain free” I am trying the regular salmon based food.
Also – I have learned that only a small percentage of dog allergies are food based with the majority being caused by environmental triggers just like humans. Grasses, pollen and even dust triggers reactions in effected dogs.
I hope your issue is easily resolved and hey a 3.5 star food isn’t necessarily bad. The reviewers tend to place emphasis on protein content etc…and frankly I try to have a lower but high quality protein percentage so as to avoid kidney issues later in life.
Solid Gold has a great Salmon based dry kibble but since the protein is only 21% it has a lower rating. Just food for thought. ( and btw I am not pushing a certain brand…I used to stand by Solid Gold but haven’t checked…they may be sold out to some super large corp now? And I do realize marketing image is always in play)
When I got my rescue Cocker Spaniel she was a mess – ear infections due to neglect, her improperly cropped tail ( looks like a done at home job…yikes) was swollen and split in two actually. She had bouts of rubbing her butt on the floor due to what think was an itch..
Long story short a Vet suggested perhaps some of the issues was due to a food allergy. I immediately jumped on the grain free train and the one I picked happened to be salmon based and lower in protein ( for a 7 year old dog). Her conditions did seem to improve.
The other day at a great new vet the doctor told me how much she was AGAINST grain free dog food as it can cause heart issues and she stated that usually a dog’s food allergy is due to the type of protein vs the grain.
It makes perfect sense to me and if you think about dog’s wild cousins (Wolves and Coyotes) they all eat some amount of grain…if they catch a rabbit or deer or mouse usually the prey has some grain in it’s stomach…right? This tells me a dog’s digestive system is probably geared to eating some amount of grain..perhaps not massive amounts though.
This differs greatly from say a cow which developed solely from grass eaters. There was not massive corn fields or wheat fields growing across the plains of Europe or America when cows were bred to what we have today and I have heard that the cattle industry is the single largest user of what is basically Tums to settle the cow’s upset stomach when it is forced to eat corn to fatten up.
All said and done I suspect my pup’s allergy was the protein vs the grain. I have switched to a regular salmon based dog food and she seems just fine and dandy. I will repost if her allergy returns.
Hope this helps a bit!
Sorry for the poor grammer in my last post…still having my coffee:)
Forgot to add…attack this logically. Lets see: 1. Dog ate a dead deer bone…
2. Deer are major carriers of Lyme disease.
3. If the carcass was fresh enough I am guessing it is probably possible to contract Lyme through eating infected meat/bone marrow. ( if not through digestion then through small cuts in the mouth or mucus areas etc.)
4. You state the lyme tests came back positive ( along with another very serious tick illness)
5. Rapid onset of lameness which shifts …a major symptom of LYME!!!
6. Other potential causes of lameness usually do not shift around…meaning if it is the hind legs it stays the hind legs..other causes may PROGRESS to other body parts BUT again they usually don’t shift around.
7. You point out suspected kidney damage…another huge lyme symptom.
If I were a betting man…I’d say the odds of your dogs problems are caused by LYME and or the other tick born illness present…better yet a combo of both.
It doesn’t sound like you placed the dog on months long antibotic treatment because you haven’t mentioned it if you did.
Per vet guidelines 1 month treatment is bare minium…as stated in my last post 2 months is better and my vet said personally if it was his dog he would shoot for 3 months. The point is the longer on antibotics the better the result.
P.S. The good news is if you get cracking and start treatment the odds of a successfully beating this are pretty good as long as the kidneys aren’t destroyed by the time you start. But as someone mentioned earlier…Lyme can be a killer…even in humans. My old neighbor in PA had lyme and almost died..the infection went into the spinal cord and then the brain. She was in the hospital on IV drip antibotics for weeks.( she is ok now and that was 5-7 years ago…whew!)
I asm so sorry to hear about your dog’s problems! My little cocker spaniel gal (Coco) had Lyme markers present her last heartworm/lyme test last spring. I freaked out and studied up.
Here is the deal…studies claim that 90% of dogs infected with lyme do not present symptoms…in other words their bodies seem to handle the disease with no harm done. Now I caution this may not mean no harm done in the LONG TERM…you know…5-10 years out but it is encouraging nontheless.
Unfortunately the remaining 5-10% of the study dogs did have severe symptoms…lameness is definitely one of the symptoms!! And it comes on fairly quickly from what I read.
Kidney problems are also a major symptom of Lyme!!
Even though Coco appears to fall into the 90% of dogs with no symptoms I was not going to chance damage showing up years later ..here is the deal. My vet flat out said Lyme is a sneaky hider…think chickenpox then 40 years later you get shingles because the virus was “hidden” in the body still.
With Lyme bacteria you NEED to place the dog on antibiotics for at least a MONTH…the vet said two months is better and if your dog can handle it maybe even three months!!
Doxycycline is is perfferred choice. I put Coco on it for almost three months..she handled it just fine ( Ordered the pills through Allivet…much cheaper than other places. I hope I squeezed all the bacteria out..she is due for another test soon and I’ll report back.
Bottomline: As others have said to you…yes..organic is great…yep..I love homopathic when called for BUT your dog is showing severe symptoms…kidney and lameness. Do not mess around with this or you will damage your beloved dog. Get expert and aggressive vet advice..and hey..before going broke on tests and scans try the antibotic therapy 1st. Very little risk and if it doesn’t work you can always do the scans for other genetic laminess issues ( bad hips as mentioned above) that type issue usually can wait a few months and still be fixed. Destroyed kidneys from lyme can’t be fixed..so attack the life threatening stuff..
best of LUCK!! Please keep us posted Emily!
I never said I was going away as long as you keep spouting nonsense. If you want to be helpful how about telling people what you consider safe and effective along with warning them away from certain products??
But no..you actually don’t want people to use any flea control because you really believe they are all dangerous…right?
Your inflated ego has you thinking you actually know science ( you don’t) and you seem to think you know better than the FDA, EU and Australia combined.
Post away Jane and I will meet you word for word because you are actually dangerous!
Yep …such a shame.
Well we agree on diet anyway…good for you. I aso steer away from processed foods.
I also stated pages agaon that when I lived in South Eastern PA I never saw a flea…we never used any flea treatments. I could probably get away with no flea treatments in VT as well but there I have tons of ticks to worry about and they carry Lyme. In fact my one dog recently tested positive for Lyme and I placed on her on 3 months of antibotics…
Your hard work natural method will not work here in FL…one 100% will not work because there are so many fleas you can’t even imagine. Sure I could spray poison all over my yard but I refuse to do so. If I didn’t use flea control my baby would be literaly covered with fleas each time she went outside.
Sorry …I won’t subject my dog to that torture and disease risk.
Your right…I would not believe in Bigfoot because there is no such thing…period!
Again …WHAT DO YOU RECCOMMEND FOR FLEA CONTROL?
If you can’t say basically you are as useless as one old wrinkled sock.
Come on…please share…what do you use for fleas and ticks?
Wow…you watch the bigfoot show?? amazing…I haven’t actually met anyone who did but I kinda suspected it was your type show:)
Jane is extremely helpful in citing reports as though they were facts…which in many cases leads to false assumptions. A report that Bigfoot was sighted is not a fact.
The fact is that if there were actually all these horrible deaths and side effects the drug would be pulled or the FDA would immediately order a full review…something that is not happening as far as I am aware.
The sad part is many come here to decide what flea treament to use and all they get is fear of ANY flea treatment…this one is bad…that one kills dogs left and right…oh noo…for god’s sake don’t use that one blah blah blah.
Mixed in is the under current…well fleas aren’t all that bad ( yes…some misguided person actually said that in so many words…ask really what diseases are spread by fleas ( lots and lots))
The push is for natural organic …which by the way I swear by organic in my life when I can…it doesn’t work down south period end of discussion.
So people coming here for genuine information on WHAT TO USE are scared witless and are afraid to use ANY flea control which in turn makes the poor dogs suffer,
Get facts not junk science out
Right…sure don’t cite a reference! Yes…I agree the whole world is against you…one huge conspiracy in that our FDA, the EU and Australia all allow Bravecto for nursing mothers.
They do this just to watch young dogs die and so huge corporations can make money…right? Isn’t that what you really think?
You discount science…you discount any thought of the FDA working to save us from harm and prefer some deep dark corrupt theory of pay offs and back street deals. Geez.
Yes…I beleive you…its not like all these breeders would SUE or scream bloody murder and shut it down. Yep…dead dogs left and right where we use bull dozers to bury them.
get a life
No…I can’t allow you and your ilk to spread false rumors period. You have no clue as to science and spread fear without being helpful to those who seek effective flea control.
One of your vocal group actually dismissed any flea control…another suggested organic (fine if it works in some areas but it doesn’t work down South).
One misguided anti Bravecto woman actually suggested that she used spot treatments which as well all know contains the exact same poison as roach spray..( great…very safe and logical)
When the mood strikes and the conversation turns to killing ticks as a benefit the anti group then flip flops and claims Bravecto really isn’t all the effective in killing ticks or helping prevent Lyme disease…even going so far as to cite claims that LIVE ticks were found on dogs given Bravecto.
Now flipping again when fear suits your needs the anti group cites examples of Bravecto killing a tick 9 months after the last dose was given…alluding to how utterly harmful and scary the drug must be to still be working 9 months later ( which is utter nonsense by the way)
Whe you stop spreading fear and start talking science ( and as I pointed out reports are not to be confused with scientific fact) I will gladly stop posting.
For some reasonyou think you own the blog…sorry…you don’t
And I see we are right back to the unfounded, illogical doom and gloom. Amazing…such nonsense by those who ignore science.
I agree that Bravecto does stay in the body longer than 90 days…111 days officially but the 90 mark is the effective treatment level. Personally I would administer a bit longer than every three months…say 3.5 months.
Readers …do you catch the illogic? Earlier on the anti bravecto group claims that it really isn’t all that effective killing ticks…then whamo…when the modd strikes them to try to scare people they pull the old switchroo…and now claim that Bravecto is so deadly it killed a tick 9 months…thats right 9 months after the last dose was given.
Yes they did! And I agree with you! My rescue cocker was covered with fleas…actually had a deformed tail and injuries from the constant itch. Pure hellish torture to her but gee …don’t tell the organic ones here. To them fleas are a mere note.
Yes disgusting and ignorant to boot!
Likewise to you.
Again…please cite this safety study…i don’t see it. Include links to the study please ..
For now the EU allows and states Bravecto is safe. Are you saying the EU ( or any other country says otherwise??)
Question: Is the EPA…FDA…EU or Australia saying Bravecto is unsafe…if yes we better have the info asap. Please post!!!
Lets get a bit silly…you know I love the Sears optical commercial where the woman calls here kitty kitty and a raccoon walks in her house.
Now a report is the next morning this woman wakes up to a raccoon in bed with her and tells the FDA my heavens …I fed my cat Purina Salmon last night and by god by this morning the food turned my cat into a raccoon.
You don’t think this type of nonsense type reports literally flood the FDA or EPA daily?? Think again…there are many nuts out there.
My point being yes…look at good reports …listen…read…and also let the agencies do their jobs and issue facts when called for.
In this case I say there are many good reports and some bad ( considering doses administered). It appears to work…likewise it is new and we do not have long term cancer studies yet.
one dose …likely ok…two …same…10 years worth…dunno yet. Seems promising though
My statement is I agree…yes…it is good to get facts out. The facts helped me decide..yes I am leery …yes I am keeping a watchful eye on my gal..she is great so far. No I am not sold on long term Bravecto…at the same time I am not running for the hills based on conjecture.
My parting shot is reports aren’t facts…the facts will be decided in due time if any agency follows up. For now the reports are just that…reports with I may add have unknown weight or accuracy UNTIL we get the facts.
Until then I suggest caution…use your head but don’t lose it. Weigh risks vs benefits and realize that all medications have draw backs…use any medication sparingly.
Can we agree on this?
You are correct…my apology. The roach spray gal was Judy going back and looking at all the off science observations had my head spinning.
I’m sorry to confuse you…you plainly are the conspiracy woman not to be confused with the spray the dog down with the equivalent of roach spray gal Judy. ( or the anti science gal Becca).
Got it now…won’t happen again:)
Thar she blows folks…see? I know the anti science under current here…anti medical society anti everything couched in what they like to call common sense.
Sorry Becca…what you espouse is fringe…not science..not facts…not medicine.
Hello Susan and Judy,
After I said stop my in box kept filling with the most inane and illogical statemnets from both of you ( and others of your ilk).
it is painfully obvious that you do not have even the most basic concept of science nor statistics and frankly your type is dangerous. Other variations of this type of twisted thinking lead to oh no…don’t vaccinate a baby (human)…oooh no..don’t allow my child to have antibiotics.
Some how our national education system crashed and now we have these well meaning but seriously lacking folks pressing their home spun opinions and using simplistic internet knowledge as proof to back up their uneducated claims.
I’m not selling anything…hence my statement use sparingly or not at all if you can help it. You though are definitely selling your brand of outlook based on anti everything science. If left up to you we would be spraying strong black tea …waving at a full moon on the 31st of the month:)
My dog deserves better…it deserves health through loving science and common sense.
Unlike Susan spraying her dog do down with what amounts to roach spray…good job Susan!
Doom and gloom is watching my pet die of tick born illness, or suffering from fleas or being in agony from topical poisons applied to the skin then ingested while licking.
Becca…cite facts not conjecture or unfounded opinion
Judy – you ask for the article which stated 44k dogs died due to spot treatment for fleas and ticks. I haven’t had a chance to complete my search to find it again but what I did find was a 2009 Scientific American article which has the below quote:
Most of the problems were minor, such as skin rashes, but about 600 dogs and cats died in the incidents reported in 2008, EPA records show.
So 600 dog and cats in 1 year…ok…my statement of 44k may be a low number huh?
Never use a spot treatment. Use oral it is far better.
I agree that in parts of the nation pet owners can get by with no treatment. I grew up in South Eastern PA and in my little corner of PA I never once saw a flea on my dogs…in fact I really didn’t ever see a flea until I moved to FL ( and so you know…we never sprayed for pests nor treated our dogs for fleas…heartworm yes…fleas no) Likewise in VT there are very few flea BUT there are lots of disease carrying ticks.
Bravecto does kill ticks quickly enough to stop transmission of disease ( per the studies). My dog seems fine on her 1st dose of Bravecto…the earth didn’t open up and swallow her but the fleas did die:)
Again..I caution all..I do not plan to give this drug to my gal year round..instead it is my go to for the bad months here in FL and ticks at our 2nd home in VT…thereafter she goes back on Sentinal and I even give that a break if she is up north when snow is on the ground.
Use your heads people…I can dig up stories of people dropping dead from drinking too much water to quickly. Don’t let the sky is falling folks scare you from reading good science and I encourage everyone to do just that. Research, research and then some more…check out the EPA sites…check out the FDA sites but do not listen to the misquoted gloomand doom posted here.
Ok good to know Judy.
Look I agree 100% about risks involved with any insecticide and I try to go organic in my life when I can.
Trust me natural or organic flea control rarely works in FL. Now it might in certain highly controlled cases…such as a small apartment, dog or cat is walked on sidewalks mostly and settings as that nature. However, if you have a large yard as I do with lots of squirrels, racoons and birds visiting it is impossible to keep fleas at bay ( unless I spray my yard with poison …something I don’t want to do).
I personally think spot treatments can be worse than oral in some cases…the spot treatments are meant to spread to every part of the animals body and most animals groom themselves. This results in the dog or cat ingesting poison which was meant to be topical use only.
Again…my personal opinion is to much of anything can be harmful so I always try to give my dogs a break from flea meds whether the usual Sentinal ( which I normally use ) or the new Bravecto ( which I plan on using 1 time a year during the worst of flea/tick season).
I am not writing glowing reports about Bravecto …but yes…I am trying to bring a voice of reason and balance into this very biased discussion that has veered greatly from fact to one of hype and conjecture.
as I referenced earlier I saw a post that stated 44,000 dogs were killed by Advantix II…Do I believe it…NOOO..it wouldn’t be on the market…do I like Advantix II…no for reasons I stated above.
I’l wager that half of these anti posts are really made by a single person..judy and Mary and doodleroo doopey do guy are probably all the same 300 pound high school kid spoofing us?
Dunno but none of them are convincing if you follow science..thats right..the EU, USA and Australia all say Bravecto is safe.
now I am not saying it is but I am saying I gave my gal a dose this past Wed for the first time and she is fine..I plan on watching her…having blood work done in a month and then I’ll say it is safe…or not.
One thing I will not do is get scared by idle conjecture and hype.
Ah yes Happy Monday to all. Actually visiting this site is what helped me decide to give Bravecto to my Cocker Spaniel (Coco). I suspected all the negative reports were just hype and visiting here helped convince me.
Lets look just look at the logic…a few posts above we have Judy stating she administered Advantix..but wait I saw a report that Advantix killed 44,000 dogs. But Judy loves it (and by the way snicker..its made by Bayer..hi Judy and friends..Bayer isn’t some small time Pharma corp:).
We really haven’t heard what the rest of Anti Bravecto gang uses which really isn’t helpful to their cause because after all this blog forum is supposed to help us decide right? what to use and what not to use…right? But all a certain few do is complain and post misleading statistics.
But lets get back to dear Judy..so what she suggests is safe is based on:
ADVANTIX contains Permethrin
The insecticide permethrin (in the synthetic pyrethroid family) is widely used on cotton, wheat, corn, alfalfa, and other crops. In addition, over 100 million applications are made annually in and around U.S. homes.
Permethrin, like all synthetic pyrethroids, is a neurotoxin. Symptoms include tremors, incoordination, elevated body temperature, increased aggressive behavior, and disruption of learning. Laboratory tests suggest that permethrin is more acutely toxic to children than to adults.
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has classified permethrin as a carcinogen because it causes lung tumors in female mice and liver tumors in mice of both sexes. Permethrin inhibits the activity of the immune system in laboratory tests, and also binds to the receptors for a male sex hormone. It causes chromosome aberrations in human and hamster cells. Permethrin is toxic to fish, birds, honeybees, tadpoles and hasan adverse lasting impact on life.
Actually I do…no I am not a Merck employee but thanks for the smear…no I don’t use roach spray on my dogs as you say you do. Yes, I do go by science and studies and no I do not see any negative EMA studies…in fact it is fully approved in the EU…bold faced statement that the EMA finds the potential harms not worth the risks of not using.
Goodbye dear Susan…goodbye!
Great…you say you just used Advantix II on your dog…so basically you used roach spray! Same main ingredient (permethrin) is in Advantix II as is in common roach spray. Your dog licks it off and swallows it.
Thank you for your input and commets. Good luck with your dogs and please keep us posted here as to how they are doing.
My statements are that I am trying it…never said I loved it and frankly I don’t know if I will use it again. So far so good though.
People come here to try to get facts and make a decision. I need good flea control period. I also love organic but that doesn’t work where I live.
My vet ( who I trust a great deal) suggested Bravecto. Like everyone else here I started to research because no…I don’t like “new” drugs…esp. long acting drugs. As I started to research this my hair almost fell out because of all the hype…seriously…I was taken back.
Then slowly I started sorting through all the junk and came to a conclusion. I gave my gal Bravecto and I will say this to people:
Keep an eye on your dog, give breaks from flea and heart worm meds when you can and most importantly get blood work done esp liver enzymes…if you notice chances immediately suspect that your flea or heartworm meds may be the cause and investigate.
I promise to report back…I am having my gal’s liver enzymes tested mid-way through the 90 period.
Susan and Judy…thank you for your input as well.
Susan and Judy, I was thanking the individual who took the time to express his/her opinion.
Judy, I am sorry for your loss, however, I am not discussing Comfortis I am discussing Bravecto. Likewise, I am not discussing your doctor ( hey readers…lets stop here a second…scroll up a bit and read the post where the person suggests listening to your vet now notice Judy digging at her husband’s Doctor…can’t win huh?).
I keep responding because seriously…we are in a lot of trouble today because people do not understand basic science…perhaps our schools are to blame. It is truly scary to me to hear such twisted yet seemingly “common” sense comments be accepted…such as it must be toxic if it kills fleas.
Rubish! So Judy to answer I will say I do not know what you mean because what is toxic to a flea is obviously vastly different than what is toxic to my dog or myself with both us being mammals.
Even between mammals there are vastly different toxicity variables. Do you enjoy grapes Judy? How about chocolate? Both really tasty and good food items for humans that will kill dogs…gee…it seems simple common sense doesn’t really work in the world of science. So please keep your you simple homespun observations to yourself because all you do is create danger.
If you actually have studies which support harm being caused by Bravecto then please do share…but you don’t. Scopes even investigated this and found all the hype to be an urban myth based on conjecture vs facts.
Flea and tick control are extremely important – neither Judy or Susan have bothered to offer a helpful suggestion as to a proven alternative to medication ( I say proven vs swing a chicken over your head on a full moon).
So please Judy and Susan…can you share a good method to protect my gal here in FL from flea bites ( which cause disease) or ticks ( which cause disease)?
Hey, Thank you! I did give my gal Bravecto last Wed. She is doing great. Its almost comical but at the same time scary that handful of extremely vocal people claim all these horrible things yet when you go to the sources they cite the information is just the opposite. One person here cited a Swedish study and when I pasted the conclsuion of the study that they found no…zero connection between reported side effects to the administartion of Bravecto..the gal who cited the study here replied …oh yeah well thats the Swedish.
Anyway…thanks for your support and logical advice…my gal is fine now and free of fleas
So what do you suggest for the deep South in regards to flea and tick? Something that is proven to work.
I read the article you sent…yeah? Ok a very few …extremely small number of dogs that were given large doses over time has mostly minor side effects. ! female dog out of hundreds was put to rest..so?
If you knew anything about science you would know the statistical chance of a random natural death is ever present.
I look forward to hearing your solution and suggestions on what will protect my gal
Again, facts vs conjecture. And no you don’t know many vets…really…why would you know “,many” vets. What normal person knows many vets?
Anyway, my life and choices are science based…we put a man on the moon and science is not a shame. Your ramblings are purely conjecture and emotional based(because you “feel” like it).
Both of us have taken enough space up in this blog…lets stop. I am,
Your arguemens make no scientific. Instead you use conjecture and emotion….ano NO you don’t have to be an expert as t=you claim. All you have to do is read the reports and think. Prettty simple stuff.
This drug apppears to be safe…over 35M doses administered and something like a 1%…actually I think it far less than 1% reported problems…and many of them were relatively minor.
You guys are just starting a baseless fearmongering which isn’t based on real facts or science.
Supports what I have been saying…this is a direct copy and paste from the LINK you sent to me…notice the “so far we have not seen any connection?:
In Sweden Bravecto launched in May 2014. Since then, the MPA has received a total of 152 adverse event reports related to the agent.
– I know it is a big concern and that many have their eyes on Bravecto. We look at each report and an assessment of whether it is probable, possible or unlikely that there is a connection between what happened and medicine. So far we have not seen any connection to Sweden, says Susanne Stenlund, veterinarian at the MPA.
Thats enough now…you are straying deep into the weeds and you lost me when you referenced investigations by Sweden (and others) but failed to post a link.
Not sure you are directing this to me…well yes..actually I do have a doctorate but no offense taken.
And yes…my vet whom I trust HIGHLY reccomends Bravecto…nontheless I am doing my research as well just to make sure.
And I add that there are some out there who love a good scandel..even when I say my vet reccomended the drug they scream…aah the vets are making money off this…they are part of the quote “system” as if there is this huge shady group of people lying about research and killing dogs just so they can make a buck.
Really, in today’s world you can’t win…you say you agree with a research study and the opinion of a trained vet and they jump on you…you say you don’t trust a study and the otherside jumps on you.
What I do is listen to experts..look at all sides and decide the issue solely on science. To date I have not read a single research article which supports all the dire side effects that some here are claiming.
Now will admit a few here do make a logical case for longer term and presently unknown side effects. Such as yes…how does the liver react over 10 years to this drug.
Medical doctors today now realize that minor but constant inflammation in the human body can cause cancer…20 years ago they would have laughed at the notion that some minor little thing would kill you 15 years later.
For now I feel safe in the short term usage of Bravecto…BUT I am not certain I will want to use this for the next 5-10 years? I’ll get back to you on that question!
I do see your logic regarding the effects on the liver…I am posting an portion of a research study…please note the extremely high dosages given to the rats…400mg per Kg body weight a DAY…a DAY. Wow…my gal got about 11.4 mg per pound for 3 months ( (roughly 23.6 mg per kg per 90 days!!!)
Jane…anything to excess is dangerous. Drinking to much water at once can literally kill you…does than mean water is toxic. Well yes…sure it is toxic if you are stupid enough to drink 3 or 5 gallons at once.
How about baby aspirin..yep..thats toxic to in some people. If I listed all the side effects of just plain old aspirin and didn’t tell you the drug name there is no way you would ever pop another aspirin again. Yet rarely do any of us ever actually realize any negative effect from aspirin and there are many studies that support aspirin has numerous beneficial effects at low dosage…from preventing heart disease to preventing some cancers.
Some people don’t seem to have comon sense…they read a “study” and don’t really have the expertise to understand the study then they get freaked out.
Please…do go read all the horrible…super scary possible side effects of aspirin…but you know what…I’m not concerend at all and I think it makes perfect sense to take a daily low dose of aspirin…the logical benefits are far better than the risks.
But yes…see my other posts…keep an eye on this…know your dog…get proper blood tests done and see how your pup is tolerating this new drug.
Please see below post from PARASITIPEDIA.net:
LD50 acute, rats, p.o. >2000 mg/kg
LD50 acute, rats, dermal >2000 mg/kg.
In rats the main target organ in the repeated dose toxicity studies was the liver. Increased organ weight, hepatocellular fatty change and effects in related blood parameters were observed mainly in the highest dose groups, thus at large overdoses relative to recommended/proposed use in the dogs. At the dose of 400 mg/kg bw/day effects on thymus and adrenal weight and microscopic changes in lung and thymus were observed. Comparable effects were reported after dermal administration at very high doses.
In Beagle puppies treated at 1x, 3x and 5x the maximum recommended dose (= 25 to ~60 mg/kg bw) three times with a 56 day interval, fluralaner was well tolerated. There was no evidence of product-related effects in food consumption, body weight, clinical parameters or physical examination variables, or clinical pathology findings.
In a pivotal reproductive study Beagle dogs were treated up to 3X the recommended dose 3 times at 8 weeks intervals starting 12 weeks (males) and 4 weeks (females) before expected mating. Treatment continued until the females had whelped (males) or the puppies were weaned (females). No adverse reactions were observed in adult dogs and no detrimental effect on reproductive functions, number of puppies and puppy survival was detected.
Safety data collected during field studies with the tablets for dogs in Europe and the USA showed that the product was in general well tolerated. In the European field study mild and transient diarrhea, vomiting, lack of appetite and drooling were recorded in 1.6% of dogs in the first days after treatment.
Thanks for your observations…it is good to get feed back from others who use Bravecto. My plan is to administer it as sparingly as possible giving long breaks inbetween. I am also going to keep a close eye on my gal.
Jane has made a few logical observations…her comments about the potential for the liver to try to metabolize the drug only to fail in being able to do so does raise concerns for me.
Since I have a pretty good track record of Coco’s liver enzemes rating before administerig this drug I plan on having her tested again in a month to see if her liver enzemes did indeed rise as Jane fears is a potential…I want to see exactly what is going on with my dog before deeming this 100% safe.
For now I am thinking that it is safe…lets see what I think after tests down the road. If it is causing elevated liver enzemes I’ll never give Coco another dose and I highly doubt that I will have damaged her through administering a single dose ( this might not be true with other dogs/breeds)
When thinking about this I sugest that we realize the effects of medicines varies greatly in humans. Some of us can guzzle wine with no ill effect…others take one sip and get headaches or suffer ill effects from alcohol. Same with aspirin… I might take it and be fine…you might take it and have severe stomach problems.
The trick in life is finding what works best for us individually…what foods to eat …what meds to take and what allergies we may have…I think the same holds true for dogs or any animal for that matter.
As they say in the Navy…keep a wary “weather” eye on this!
Kuddos to you…I lie how you spend the time to research scholarly research vs making decisions based on conjecture or Facebook posts.
I am glad I joined this site…it is good to discuss various issues and concerns with others who have researched the question!
Thank you for the excellent information! Yes, I am concerned about all these aspects..my plan is to use sparingly. Just one dose from now through Sept. then switch back to Sentinal. My dog splits her time between FL and VT…Fleas are a non issue in VT but ticks are a huge issue.
We are in FL at the moment and fleas are horrible this year because we didn’t have a heavy frost this winter ( normally my part of FL..St Augustine..gets 1 or two hard freezes a winter).
I plan on keeping a close eye on Coco.
As to your observations about Bravecto remaining in the body for too long…I did read a medical study which stated that trace amounts were found in the blood at 111 days but that the effective dosage ended roughly at the 90 day mark…this is an overlap of 21 days and like you I am concerned about build up if given on a regular basis.
With that said …the flip side is that if you think about it – even using a monthly medicine has the effect of keeping the dog under load too. Every month you administer a monthly dose the dog always has the drug in its system…right?
I don’t really see a difference…giving 3 pills of Sentinal over 3 months is the exact same as giving one pill of Bravecto over 3 months.
Therefore my main concern is the overlap and build up relating to proper dosage schedules as discussed above vs. concern over having the drug in the dog’s body.
I guess the real question is …” is it safe or not” If the drug is really safe ok…if the drug causes cancer or other illness then I wouldn’t use it period.
I also agree with you that with any new drug one has to worry about long term side effects which don’t show up in the studies…ones that only start cropping up after 5 or 10 years.
We just don’t know yet with Brvecto…BUT in theory I do like the fact that it doesn’t load the liover or kidneys…that part is very good. In addition the studies to date indicate far fewer adverse reactions than other standard and older medicines…that part is good too.
Then we have the fact that boy…it is working great on Coco so far regarding fleas…has the potential to kill ticks within 2-4 hours after being bitten ( I think lyme disease requires the tick be attached for 24 or more hours)..so that is also a plus.
My pan…keep a wary eye…use a sparingly as possible…AND most importantly take Coco off the med for long breaks when neither fleas or ticks are an issue…maybe even just giving her one dose a year.
In a perfect world without fleas or ticks I wouldn’t giver her any medicine. I HATE ..ABSOLUTELY HATE that I have to medicate my gal…but since I do I am going to keep researching which medicine is the safest then give as little as possible.
P.S. I wish our pets had the ability to help make a choice…by saying hey you dope…don’t give me that junk…it makes me feel woozy…or bad. That is the single hardest part about having pets…we have to observe and use our knowledge to guess what is best and how our babies feel. To everyone reading…please – get to know your pets!!!
Oops …forgot to say…I do not mean to sound arrogant…I love my dog and sadly just lost my other gal though IMT ( which I mentioned earlier). I am crushed …I also know I need flea prevention because I live in FL…I also need tick prevention because I have a house in VT and my 150 acres has many …many ticks.
I totally stand with organic…my garden…my yards and my house and my food when I can control. I hate processed chemicals…even vitamins because I know they are not in the natural form of being eaten. Meaning yes a carrot has lots of vitamin A BUT it also has lots of other chemicals which whe haven’t yet looked at and my view is those other chemicals all play a role in the benefits of vitamin A vs just popping a tablet which lacks a carrot’s other beneficial chemicals.
This drug seems the least harmful…please note my wording…least harmful vs 100% healthy …wohoo ..lets go healthy. To me the benefits are greater than the potential harm and much more so than other meds on the market.
Sorry…but no…nope you are 100% wrong. Look I don’t sell this…I am not a vet and yes I am concerned since my gal just went on it ( seems fine so far).
Bravecto is not excreted via urine ( means zero liver or kidney involvement) IT IS SOLELY EXCERETED VIA THE STOOL and I may add it is excreted in the exact same chemical form as it had when administered.
If you know anything about the body you would immediately know that the liver and kidneys have absolutely no part in this.
If you have other facts please provide…facts other than conjecture.
Thanks and my gal Coco thanks you as well
Yes…I agree…of course everything given orally goes through the Liver and Kidneys…so what? Your statement is as basic as saying all oxygen carried in red blood cells is distributed through out the body.
My point is that Bravecto is NOT METABOLIZED by the liver or kidneys…it passes through unchanged. This means it is not passed by urine and instead its excreted through the stool with the exact same chemical composition exiting that it has entering the body.
Your statement leads me to believe you have no knowledge of disease, the endocrine system, metabolisim or how the body reacts to and processes chemical wastes.
By no means am I saying Bravecto is safe…I truly don’t know yet . BUT I am saying that on paper it makes total sense…the fact that my baby ( Coco) isn’t fighting or trying to break down the chemical seems much safer than any other flea med which results in the dog’s liver or kidneys trying to break down and excrete in the urine. In my mind other flea meds cause a …shal we say “load” on the body when the body tries to rid itself of the chemical.
Bravecto slowly is released via capilaries in the instestines into the stool…then is passed without the body giving a second glance.
I do not disagree that any foreign substance in the body is a potential for concern…I am almost 100% organic…my garden…my house and my food when I can control it.
I also agree that that any flea med has risks BUT I do not like topicals because they are basically the same as roach spray and I worry about the dog ingesting ( and the resulting…here is that word again..metobolizing…the poison to rid it…the stress on the liver and kidneys).
I used Sentinal before and now that I understand the process I again think of the stress on the liver and kidney.
Since I live in FL I have to have good flea control…I also have a house in VT where there are many ticks. The bottomline is I weigh the risks vs benefit and in this cause …again on paper since my gal has only been on it for a day plus a few hours…It makes sense to me to use this drug. At least during the worst of flea and tick season.
If you have a proven and highly effective alternative for me I ask you please let me know…of course I would go organic if given the choice ( if it works)
Excellent observation and great advice. I was not aware of the possibility of uneven distribution within the tablet.
Too late this time as I did chop a littel less than a third off ( saved it and can still administer though). It is a soft tablet so I felt it was safe to cut because it didn’t crumble as a hard tablet would do. However if the med is not even distributed thanks to you I now know I was wrong.
oops…forgot to say in my post above…now what I will do to be extra safe is I looked up the effective dosage..my dog at 25.4lbs requires about 150mg less dosage than the 500mg given in the one sized pill for a 25lb spread…you know the if your dog is between 20 to say 50 pounds you give this sized pill.
It is a chewable tablet so I will best guesstimate giving about 1/3 less trying to err slightly on the side of caution allowing a slightly greater doasage just to be sure but definitely slightly less than the full 500mg tablet.
can’t hurt and can only help if my dog ends up having ill effects
My vet gave me Bravecto for my 25 lb Cocker Spaniel…I just lost her best buddy another cocker gal due to IMT ( its a immune disorder …rapid onset and destroys the platelets…she basically bled to death after 4 transfusions and over $5000 spent).
I was very concerend about what set of my gal’s immune disorder and the vet said we never know…allergies, pollen, infection, virus BUT make sue your other gal has a safe flea med.
I heard many bad things about Bravecto and many good things…I researched this in vet journals and I am now pretty sure that all the stories one hears about how Bravecto wrecked the dogs liver or kidney or caused cancer ..are pure rubbish. The reason…Bravecto is not metablized in the liver or kidneys…instead it is excreted through the instestines and it has the exact same chemical composition going out as it does going in the mouth. Furthermore, science says it passed right through the liver and kidneys…this means your dogs body is not straining to metablize this drug..ad it does not get broken down into waste.
I’m very sorry to hear all the sad pet owners by I listen to science not conjecture…my guess is all the dogs in the sad stories had something wrong long before being given Bravecto and it is just pure chance the symptoms showed up when they did. Also…having lost my great gal just last week I know for 100% certain that us owners are always looking for a “cause” …what caused this disease or death BECAUSE we don’t want to feel guilty that maybe we missed something earlier…also some owners throught guilt want to blame themselves…oh no I shouldn’t have done this or that.
Its our human nature as doggie parents. I haven’t yet given the drug to my dog but I am planning to do so later today…and I promise to report back if there are any negative side effects