[A]

Sweet potatoes, potatoes, peas, etc convert to sugar and sugar feeds yeast. Brown rice is a complex carb and converts slower.
Grains aren’t always the problem, everyone at my work feeds a grain food and we all have a variety of dogs from little pups to mastiffs,pits, labs, and retrievers. We have more customers on a grain food that have left the grain free world due to the extreme high fat and carb protein sources.

This is out of one of Dr Beckers articles :

Yeast needs sugar as a source of energy. Carbohydrates break down into sugar. Both MDs and veterinarians advise patients with yeast to get the sugars out of their diets.

Dietary sugar isn’t just the white kind added to many pet treats and some pet foods. There are ‘secret,’ hidden forms of sugar that can also feed yeast overgrowth, for instance, honey. Although honey can be beneficial for pets in some cases, it does provide a food source for yeast. So if your dog is yeasty, you’ll need to carefully read his pet food and treat labels and avoid any product containing honey, high fructose corn syrup, and even white potatoes and sweet potatoes.

[pitlove]

Ah yeah I had a feeling a Karen Becker post was coming. What a shame that she knowingly perpetuates this myth that carbs feed yeast knowing very well how false that is from her training as a vet.

[A]

It’s the training we received from a vet we worked with that is not related. But that’s what I was able to find closest online.

To me it makes sense, if I’m constantly eating a fatty carb diet I’m not going to feel great, my skin will show it, I’ll be sluggish.

My vet has agreed that for my dog with liver disease she has done allot better on her Firstmate lamb and rice than she did on prescription or grain free, given my dogs all get raw fed as well. Every dog is individual.

[aimee]

Hi A,
The yeast on dogs skin is Malassezia which is a fat loving yeast, not a carbohydrate loving yeast. In fact you can supply certain strains of Malassezia with all the carbohydrate they want and they won’t grow because they need fat. It is odd that people recommend not to feed carbohydrates as it “feeds the yeast” but they don’t also recommend not to feed fat because it “feeds the yeast.” Both recommendations are equally silly. Yeast resides outside the body so what you put into the intestinal tract isn’t going to influence its growth unless the dog has a cutaneous food reaction ( allergy) to the ingredient.

Ehrstrom 2006 actually investigated the idea that high carb contributes to Candida in woman and found glucose levels in secretions didn’t change after ingesting high glucose loads.

[Tyla M]

New question ….does anyone do homemade food or dehydrated raw or a mix of stuff? I’m starting to think I don’t want to do all dry kibble.

[A]

I feed Grandma Lucy’s if I don’t have any actual raw on hand.
But prior I did feed honest kitchen and sojos.

Grandma Lucy’s is more kcal per cup so you’ll be feeding less.

When you feed by guidelines you want to feed the rehydrated amount.

[pitlove]

Tyla-

Raw and homemade are risky with large breed puppies and puppies in general. Very easy to off balance ratios of nutrients and create growth issues. I’ve seen it too many times. Best to wait til their done growing for that.

[Tyla M]

I love and appreciate all the advice! So I’ll keep asking questions …can you tell It’s my first pup? I’ve opened my mind up to not necessarily going grain free … now I’ve read about 500 different things. The most recent being that the most important things to focus on for a large breed puppy is calories and calcium/phosphorus. However, other s have mentioned fat being too high…if Orijen is a top food but has a fat % of 20..and acana with 17 and 18%, what is one to do?? Focus on calories and calcium and good ingredients .. or on fat content??

[pitlove]

Maybe I’m one of the minority, but I do not care for any products by Champion Pet Foods (Acana & Orijen). So personally I don’t think they are “the best”. The best food for any large breed puppy is a food that will promote optimal growth (low calorie, appropriate ca/phos), digests well, is feeding trialed on large breed puppies, and something they will eat. I prefer simple foods that focus on more on proper nutrition than being flashy. Those foods are not going to be produced by smaller companies usually because they don’t have the funding to research and test foods.

A quality puppy food designed properly for a large breed puppy will have balanced levels of everything you mentioned. Not some balanced and some in excess.

[mary s]

Tyla – when I got my puppy I read through this entire thread several times….it is all a bit of a blur now. I decided on Fromm Heartland Gold – grain free, beef and lamb. He has done very well on it, and I am pleased. I would not feed Orijen – I have heard lots of comments, and some from puppy owners of these litters, that is causes lots of digestive upset. Best of luck

[Tyla M]

I appreciate it and so does my wallet! I currently use Fromm gold holistic large breed puppy food. I may wait to see if the fish oil the vet gave me will help with the itching before I decide if it could be the food. I’m sure once I switch to adult food I’ll be Looking for help again! If I do decide to switch her, what are other good options for large breed that meet all the criteria? I remember looking at the fromm heartland one but I think it was the grain free one and it had 17% fat. I may supplement with some wet food, too.

[A]

I recently had a training with Origen/ Acana and they have started to take the meal out of some of their things.
When it just says deboned chicken that’s including water weight, once you cook it, it falls lower on the list of ingredients and some things may be heavier than you expected.
Orijen is expensive to make and is good but there are definitely other large breed formulas I would consider first.

At my work we deal with more dogs with pancreatic and diabetes allot more now, it’s running rampid in the dog world now.

I used to feed my pitty large breed Fromm, she was always gassy and I never knew why.
Now she’s on firstmate lamb and rice in the morning and raw at night and I have a non gassy pitty.
They do also get answers fermented goats milk, cows, and fish stock to give them different beneficial benefits.

[pitlove]

Tyla-

My top choices for a large breed puppy food will always be from larger companies. So Hills and Purina, specifically Pro Plan. Reason being, the millions of dollars they pour into research of nutrition and growth of LBPs.

As far as the smaller companies go I would use NutriSource Large Breed Puppy, Dr.Tims Kinesis (grain inclusive) or Precise Holistic Complete Large & Giant Breed Puppy.

[Kim B]

What do you think about the Canidae Under the Sun Grain Free line? I have a 2 year old and a 1 year old Great Dane. They are 90 and 130 lbs respectively. The 2 year old needs to add about 5 lbs and the 1 year old needs to lose about 10. I really like the company and I just recently learned that they are planning to start growing all of their own fruits and vegetables to maintain better control.

I really appreciate your input regarding the nutritional value of this new line.

[A]

While i do love canidae for many dogs, I feel like on UTS he would be needing too many cups and I would opt for a higher kcal formula.

If each cup takes roughly 4 hrs to breakdown and your dog needs 5 cups a day, that’s just allot of digestion time.

[pitlove]

Hi Kim-

Your 2 year old Great Dane can be on any food you are interested in trying, but for your 1 year old Dane, he should still be on large breed puppy food.

You will need to contact Canidae regarding any formula you want to use for him, ask for the nutrient or typical analysis of that formula, take the values given for the calcium and phosphorus and input them into the calcium calculator found on this site and see if it meets the criteria for a LBP food.

[Tyla M]

For people who use freeze dried dog-food, is it really high in fat?

[Dean W]

Breed like Bull Dogs and German Shepherd are Large Breed Dogs.

But it is not just specific to one breed.

Cross Breed of Two Large Breed can make a big difference.

You may get large animal dog by crossing 2 dog breed.

Cut Dog Nails Regularly to get their maximum Height.

I am available at Dog Nail Grinder

[Kathleen C]

We will be picking up our Bernese Mountain puppy next week and I am so confused about which brand of food to feed him. We are concerned about the potential health issues (inherent to this breed) that could occur and want to provide the best to hopefully avoid some of those complications. I have read thru this thread and it has created more confusion.

Also, the breeder AND a reputable BMD website has stated a low protein diet is better for this breed but according to the information that I am getting from this thread, that is not a concern. What we should be concerned about is the calcium levels.

Any advise/help/suggestions is very much appreciated. Due to our lifestyle a raw diet will not happen except for an occasional meal.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 8 months ago by Kathleen C.

[pitlove]

Hi Kathleen-

When dealing with a breed that can potentially have genetic related diseases, it is important to make sure that the breeder you are purchasing your puppy from is doing health testing on the parents and can provide you with health clearances on the parents and health stats on generations further back. Make sure you have seen OFA/PennHip scores clearing the parents of HD before committing to the puppy.

I would also say that if this breeder is still basing her feeding recommendations on an outdated myth, I might reconsider this puppy. This tells you that she has not continued to keep herself updated on current research, but instead goes with “what works”. What appears to work, does not always actually work especially if health testing is not being done.

While protein is a non-factor in the growth of large breed puppies, I still feel moderate protein levels are better tolerated by most dogs vs excesssively high. And yes, calcium and over nutrition should be the major factors being looked at when choosing a food. That being said, you will need to keep the puppy on the same food the breeder is using for 3-4 weeks and then slowly transition to the food of your choosing to prevent stress related stomach upset.

[Brianna C]

Hi all! So I am kind of in between foods for my two year old 165lb Great Pyrenees, Albert. He is not overweight, just to clarify. He has a slim waistline and his ribs can be felt with light pressure; he’s just really poofy. I even went to the vet because I was concerned he was getting too fat! I have been feeding him BB wilderness large breed, but after some research I feel that is not the best for him. Can someone recommend a great dog food for a giant breed? I am leaning towards Fromm Gold Large Breed or Victor. Thanks in advance!

[pitlove]

Hi Brianna-

Just to clarify, are you in search of a puppy or adult food?

[Tabitha F]

Hi there! I could really use some advice! My Lily is a 17 week old golden retriever puppy. She is having what we think are food allergy issues, so we were trying to eliminate chicken and grains. She is currently eating Victor Yukon River which is grain free and contains salmon and sweet potatoes. It is an all life stage good. Our dog trainer recommended it, as well as the owner of the. Atrial pet supply store locally. I was fine with it until I read that high protein and calcium can lead to joint issues for large breed dogs! I adore Lily, and I am so afraid I am going to make the wrong decision given that goldens are so prone to joint issues.

On the Victor website, the protein content is listed at 33.9% and the calcium at 1.78%. Do you guys have any suggestions? I hate to switch her food again, because we’ve already tried several, but I don’t want to damage her joints. Thank you SO much in advance!!

[Tabitha F]

That was supposed to say natural pet supply store. Sorry!!

[pitlove]

Hi Tabitha-
Food allergy is rare in dogs and at only 17 weeks old highly unlikely.
Victor Yukon River is highly inappropriate for a large breed puppy. With a Ca/Phos ratio of 1.5:1 and a Ca/Kcal ratio of 4.9g/1000 kcals, the diet is approaching the safe upper limit for the calcium to phosphorus ratio and well exceeds the recommended calcium to calorie ratio. Protein is not an issue. 20 years of research has proven that.

Also you have not described any symptoms so it is hard for us to help.

[Tabitha F]

Thank you for your response! Now I’m not sure what to do! I’m sorry I didn’t include any symptoms. She is very itchy so she scratches, bites, and licks herself all the time. She even has bare spots on her paws from biting and irritated patches from scratching. They are getting a little better, but now we have started Benadryl, because she is still scratching a lot. She also had a yeast overgrowth in her ears, and the vet states that may be related to allergies.

[pitlove]

Yes it could be, but those symptoms ring more true to an environmental allergy than a food one.

I would put her back on a very simple chicken and rice or chicken and corn based diet designed specifically for large breed puppies. The ones that stand out to me are Pro Plan Large Breed Puppy and NutriSource Large Breed Puppy. Leave her on that through the winter to see if the symptoms subside. If they calm down in the winter, this may indicate an environmental allergy. It may take a while to determine what the cause of the itching is. Possibly another full year to see if the symptoms arise again during summer.

Do you by chance live in the South? Environmental allergies are rampant down here because of our humid climate.

[Tabitha F]

Thank you! Yes in South Carolina! I’m allergic to everything here too. Thank you for the advice!

[Tyla M]

Hey Tabitha,

Welcome to my life about 2-3 weeks ago. My puppy just turned 4 months and has been scratching and biting since I got her at 9 weeks. It definitely isn’t fleas so vet gave me fish oil incase it’s dry skin. Hasn’t helped, so I also felt like it was a chicken or dairy issue. I was using Fromm’s large breed puppy food but it has eggs and chicken so I did tons of research to find a food low in calcium with no chicken. My vet also wanted me to try grain free, so that made this process even more difficult. I personally would stay away from corn… I’m trying zignature zssentials… it has no chicken or dairy and calcium isn’t horrible. When I looked it up online it had said minimum 1.0% so I figured the max couldn’t be too high (Don’t want over 1.5%). However, the bag says the min. Is 1.2% so I’m assuming the max. Is 1.5%. I’m waiting to hear back the exact max. Or average because I emailed the company. I couldn’t wait longer though so I am currently weaning her off fromm’s to the Zignature. I also bought Weruva’s Hot Dayum canned food which has no chicken, and I use it as a topper. There is just so much info. Out there though and it’s hard to find a food that hits everything you want, especially for a large breed pup. I’ve spent way too many hours trying to research it all and now I’ll keep my fingers crossed that this food works. Fortunately, my pup, Luna, hasn’t scratched or bit until she was raw or losing hair…not yet anyway. Best of luck!!

[pitlove]

Hi Tyla-

If you decide to use Zignature, two things you must consider. Zssential is the worst one to use if trying to determine if there is a food allergy at play since it is a multi protein formula.

Also several customers at my work and folks online are having their dogs develop crystals in the urine while on Zignature. One customer of ours that runs a rescue used Zignature for her 4 personal dogs. All developed struvite crystals.

Also as a word of warning. I did the same thing you are doing when my problem child dog was a pup, now he gets violently ill on any food with exotic meats and most grain free foods because of the peas.

[Tyla M]

I did hesitate at first because of the multi-proteins, however, she’s been only having chicken and has been scratching so figured I’d at last stay away from that and see.

How does one find out if their dog develops crystals? I hadn’t read that anywhere but will look into it now. It is such a pain trying to find the best dog food !

[pitlove]

Couple people posted on Facebook on a Cane Corso breeder page I follow about it after she said she was switching her dogs to Zignature from taste of the wild. Also on here there are some concerns about the sodium content on the food.

It is tough to find the right food, but for a dog that has suspected food sensitivities you will want to do a proper elimination diet to diagnose. That’s going to be the best way to spend your money.

[anonymous]

I don’t believe this negative stuff about Zignature. My two small breeds are doing very well on the whitefish (lowest in sodium) kibble, and the catfish.
If you go to the Zignature website they answer your questions and disclose sodium levels on all their products.
I had a dog with calcium oxalate bladder stones, struvite crystals and urinary tract infections. It was serious, emergency surgery and all.
From what I could tell, the main culprits were genetic predisposition and inadequate water intake, not the food.
A lot of pet owners serve kibble dry. Put down a bowl of water and assume their dogs are drinking enough….this is often not the case.
Also, expecting these dogs to hold their urine for 10 hours a day is conducive to stagnant conditions in the bladder, perfect environment for crystals and bladder stones to form.
Keep the bladder flushed, offer bathroom breaks at the minimum, every 4 hours (every 2 hours is ideal). Exercise, long walks, keep the weight down. Feed twice a day, measured amounts.
Sorry, if I went off on a rant 🙂
I am just sharing what worked for my dog with this problem.

[crazy4cats]

Anon-
Is Zignature what your vet recommended to feed your dogs?

[anonymous]

When my dogs go in for their annual exams, my vet will always ask what I am feeding them and then comment on how good they look. My vet has never recommended any specific commercial brand of dog food.
I have had dogs that needed to be on prescription food in the past, with good results.
Usually I discuss with the vet what would be appropriate for a food change, or not, once the dog is stable (about 6 months) or what I can add to the prescription food.
My dog with environmental allergies, the veterinary dermatologist determined that her allergies were not food related and approved of whatever I was feeding her as long as it was aafco approved, he also liked that I was using a limited ingredient food (just in case she also had food sensitivities), adding a topper and adding water.
My friend’s dog was doing okay on Fromm, but needed occasional prn pepcid for gastrointestinal upset. Since switching to Zignature about 1 year ago, the dog looks better and has rarely needed the pepcid.
The owner does note more frequent bowel movements, but she is okay with that as the dog is doing so much better otherwise.

[anonymous]

Anon-
“Is Zignature what your vet recommended to feed your dogs?”

Your question is irrelevant. Whatever my vet recommends or does not recommend for my dogs, has nothing to do with the dog in question and it’s specific needs.

Find a vet that you trust, go for routine exams, ask questions. Every dog is different. 🙂

Ps: If the dog has a skin condition, make an appointment with a veterinary dermatologist for the best results, regarding testing, diagnosis and treatment.
I am assuming that the regular vet has not been helpful within a reasonable amount of time.
Explore treatment options with your regular vet if the symptoms are not severe.

[pitlove]

Hi anon-

I’m just sharing the information I have currently about Zignature. The girl I know that runs the rescue that shops at my job said her vet confirmed the food to be the cause of the crystal formation in all 4 of her dogs. I personally find it concerning that all 4 of her dogs developed crystals all on the same exact food. She was using the Duck variety.

Also @Tyla-

Sorry I did not answer one of your questions to me from the previous post. You can test the urine and even see crystals under a microscope. Each crystal has a different shape indicating what type of crystal it is. (Example: struvite crystals look like coffin lids under a microscope)

[Brianna C]

-Pitlove,
Sorry I didn’t clarify and sorry for my slow response! I didn’t get a notification that you responded. I recently switched him from BB to Fromm Gold Large Breed Adult food. Do you have any insight on this brand or any other food recommendations. I am looking to stick to dry foods for adult giant breeds.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 8 months ago by Brianna C.

[pitlove]

Thats ok!

Fromm is a good brand, if you want to stick with it. My boyfriends brother feeds Precise Holistic Complete Large & Giant Breed Adult to their Great Dane and he does very well on that. Another good brand to consider if Fromm does not work out.

My personal dogs eat Purina Pro Plan. Only food that works for them. They make both a large breed adult and giant breed adult formula.

[amy r]

Hi my newf also eats fromm lb gold I add in 1200 mg of fish oil everyday and she also gets either sardines or salmon as an add In 2 or 3 times a week the rest of the time I rotate her add ins and usually add in raw green beans carrot or sweet potato and her coat and skin couldn’t look better.

[Brianna C]

Thanks! I think I’m going to stick with Fromm. He seems to like it better!

[Brianna C]

-Amy R
I give Albert gets two capsules of fish oil a day and I supplement his meals with a couple Primal nuggets as well. His fur and skin are so silky since I started with the fish oil. He gets raw pumpkin and all sorts of other fruits and veggies. He is pretty spoiled!

[Margaret G]

Hello, I have a 12 week old Irish Wolfhound/German Shepherd mix. She was on Taste of the Wild Puppy food but we were recommended to switch to Holistic Select Puppy Food for Large and Giant breed dogs. I am concerned after reading these posts that the calcium is too high. I slowly switched her from the TOTW. Her stools are soft but formed. I was thinking I should switch to a lower calcium kibble but after reading these threads, I am wondering if I should stay where I am for a bit? She is growing fast, already 27 pounds. I want to be sure we are using a food that will keep her bones as healthy as possible. I would appreciate any suggestions! Thank you everyone.

[pitlove]

Hi Margaret-

It was about a year ago that I contacted Holistic Select. I was told they would be reformulating their diets to keep in line with current research. Before continuing your girl on Holistic Select I would encourage you to contact them through email again yourself and find out the values of their calcium and phosphorus on the typical analysis of the large breed puppy.

If you decide to contact them, post their answer and I’ll be happy to help you determine if the formula is now appropriate.

[Margaret G]

Hi Pitlove, I emailed but then just called Holistic Select. They still have as fed Ca at 2.21% and Ph at 1.25%. Kcal/kg is 3529. If I have understood the info the ratio is on the high end and the as fed Ca is maybe too high? Thanks for your input. I want to give my new baby the best chance I can for her growth!

[pitlove]

When I put those values into the calcium calculator on this site I get:

Calculate
Calcium = 6.3 g per 1000 kcal
Ca to P ratio = 1.8 to 1

Absolutely inappropriate for a large breed puppy. Sad to see that no changes have been made to their formula in an entire year.

Foods like this are why I continue to stand by my recommendation of using a food from Hill’s, Purina, or Royal Canin. You literally never have to worry about those brands having large breed puppy foods in excess like that.

[Kim B]

I am still trying to figure out how to do the calculation on the food. I am looking at Canidae. I have fed their food in the past and now they have grain free options.

Life Stages Dry Dog Food for Puppies, Adults & Seniors

Here is a link to see a screen shot of the ingredients, etc so how do I turn this information into the equation to confirm if it is a well balanced food for a giant breed?

Thank you for your help with this!

[pitlove]

Hi Kim-

Canidae makes a Life Stages Large Breed Puppy formula. Since they do not provide a typical analysis on their website you will need to email them and ask for it for that formula. Post their response and I can help you determine if the food is appropriate.

As I mentioned to Margaret, I never trust a company’s large breed puppy food unless it’s one like Hill’s, Purina or RC. Too many smaller companies have foods labeled for a large breed puppy, but it reality are in excess.

[Nadine H]

I have a 8 month and 13 month great dane. I’ve read and read about kibble to the point I don’t know what to feed them I’ve had them on Farmina the last month or so but having concerns about the high protein and fat content. I know protein shouldn’t be an issue but this food is high calorie. Logan weight 135 and Leah weighs 90 and the amount that the company said I should feed is very small. When I cut back to the small amount both dogs act like they’re starving. I bought a bag of Canidae turkey and brown rice yesterday. Way lower fat, protein and calories then the Farmina. Would love opinions on each of these foods. The only thing I’m not real happy with regarding the Canidae is it’s high carb, around 42%.

[Nadine H]

It doesnt? I always thought that cabs were the problem, in other words it’s best to stay away from a high carb kibble.My pups don’t do well on grain free so it’s difficult to find low carb so your comment is interesting.

[Author]

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