Doggy Dementia

Dog Food Advisor Forums Off Topic Forum Doggy Dementia

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  • #68611 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    The biggest issue is that the anesthesia is eliminated by either the kidneys or the liver, depending on what type they use. With both compromised, it means she may never wake up or may wake up extremely slowly, and it may cause more damage, pushing her over the edge. On the other hand, the bad teeth are poisoning her body too and could actually be part or all of the cause of the kidney and/or liver issues.

    My JRT’s sister died from bad teeth. She was a little sh*t and wouldn’t let anyone look at her mouth. They finally realized from her breath that she needed her teeth done and scheduled the cleaning, but 2 days before the appointment, she suddenly dropped dead. They had a necropsy done to see if they could tell what killed her and found that her kidneys were big pus pockets. The infection had gone throughout her whole body and settled in her kidneys.

    #68612 Report Abuse
    Akari_32
    Member

    He said with out knowing exactly what is causing the levels to be so high (which would require testing and such), he couldn’t say for sure if she would be ok to be put under or not. He said they could be high because of the state of her mouth, or because of something else, such as cancer. My thought is that they are probably that high because of this infection that she’s had for who knows how long, most of her life, I’m sure. Antibiotics are no longer helping her. We just finished a $25 week of Clavamox, with no change at all. The free 250mg Omoxacylin (how ever the crap you spell it… lol) did more than the Clavamox did.

    I think detoxing first would be a good idea. But that would then involve more blood tests later down the road… Ugh, so much money D: What would the risks be of detoxing for a while and then doing the dental with out another set of blood work?

    I posted a brief history of more or less whats been posted in this thread on RCF Chat (Off topic sister group to the Raw Feeding Community group on Facebook) and the general consensus is that I should just bite the bullet and do the dental. Actually, no one thats replied said I shouldn’t do it. In the end, it is moms choice, and she’s really upset about the results of her blood work, and would devastated if anything happened to her while she was under the anesthetic. She’s pretty much at the no-dental-ever-put-her-on-medicatcation-to-fix-her-liver-and-kidney-functions point right now.

    #68613 Report Abuse
    Anonymous
    Member

    When one of my old dogs needs surgery, I often decline the lab work. You have to sign the waiver anyway saying that anything and everything could go wrong. So, I figure why spend more money and have more to worry about? The last dogs I had spayed or neutered, I declined the lab work, told the vet to just do a physical, check heart and lungs.

    BTW: Stuff can go wrong even if the lab work is perfect.

    #68615 Report Abuse
    Dog_Obsessed
    Member

    I’m sorry her liver/kidney results were high. πŸ™ It is definitely a hard decision, whether to do the dental or not. I guess if you wanted to you could try to get an opinion from another vet, though you likely would have to pay for an extra appointment. Do you know anyone else who is or knows a vet that would look at her results and give you their opinion? Hang in there! πŸ™‚

    #68636 Report Abuse
    Akari_32
    Member

    I expected it, tbh. Didn’t think they’d be this crazy though. I think we are going to talk to the vet about getting her on a stronger antibiotic, something to bring her liver and kidney values back down, and possibly some pain relievers.

    #68656 Report Abuse
    Anonymous
    Member

    Any medications and supplements tend to make the kidneys and liver work harder, therefore the lfts and bun/creatinine may become even more elevated and also increase the risk of nausea and vomiting. The antibiotics are just for pre-op preparation.

    Once she’s stable and the infection is cleared up (dental surgery), she may benefit from diet changes and supplements as aids.

    My dog with kidney damage (complication of Lyme) had higher values than that.

    The potential for complications from the dental infection, sepsis are greater than the risk of going under anesthesia, imo. They do these procedures quickly now, the meds are less harsh.
    I hope the vet can explain things in more detail and put your mind at ease. Good luck with your decision.
    My last post on this subject as I am repeating myself.

    #68661 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    I’m probably a little twisted, but to me quality of life is everything with my pets. I would do the dental because it will improve the quality of her life even though it may shorten the quantity. I never worry about how many days my pets will live, I worry about how great, or bad, those days are going to be.

    #68665 Report Abuse
    Akari_32
    Member

    I agree. In the end, what we do is up to mom, since its her dog. So right now I’m gathering information, putting it all together, then I’ll give it to her, have her call the vet and talk to him about what I’ve picked up and see what he recommends, and let her choose from there. She said last night that she was really happy that I cancelled the dental because she would be devastated and traumatized if Ginger hadn’t made it through the procedure. She doesn’t want to put Ginger through a bunch of tests to figure why these are all so high either, but also doesn’t want her to suffering in any way (both by not doing the dental, and by her not making it through the dental). So, I’m just pretty much hanging out, stuck in the middle of all this at this point.

    #68682 Report Abuse
    Anonymous
    Member

    Edit: Never mind, I said I would keep my mouth shut and I will.
    But if it was my dog, I would have the dental work done asap.

    #68864 Report Abuse
    Akari_32
    Member

    I don’t need your negativite crap. It’s not my dog, it’s not my choice. All I can do is give my mom the information I’ve gathered and let her decide what she feels is best. If you don’t want to comment anymore, don’t comment.

    On another note, I need some opinions on a potty matter. Ginger has not pee’d or pooped outside in pretty much two days. Today she kept asking to go out, repeatedly, and I took her out, tried to walk her around and get her to do something. But all she wants to do is lay in the grass and go to sleep. I have to pick her up and take her back inside (she plants her feet when pulled back toward the door), where she then walks around for a while and then either passes out in her bed or on the couch, or pee’s in the floor and then passes out. She’s been off and on going potty in the house since she got her blood work done, and yesterday and today, all bets have been off. And I noticed today a nasty spot where the blood was taken. Lots of blood just under the skin, that also goes over the tumor on her neck. Not really a bruise though, because it doesn’t seem to bother her. It wasn’t there the couple of days following her blood work. Not really sure if this all just a coincidence that happened to coincide with the blood work, or if the blood work getting done has really stressed her, and caused her some sort of harm. I’ve never dealt with a dog so sensitive to litterally everything, like she is. Gets her feeling hurt very easily lol I will be making an appointment at the vet as soon as they can get me in. While we’re there, I’ll talk over the dental/antibiotic-denamarin combo options and see what he has to say.

    #68882 Report Abuse
    Anonymous
    Member

    I apologize if I came on too strong. I can see why one would have concerns about putting a senior dog with health issues through any type of surgery.
    Peace

    #68896 Report Abuse
    Akari_32
    Member

    Update on the vet situation: we are supposed to be going tomorrow. Mom is going with me, and we are all going to talk about what the best course of action is.

    LM, it’s ok, and I do appreciate the help. There’s just no point in getting on me about something I can’t control. It’s not my dog, so the end decision is not mine. All I can do is pass on the information I gather, and let mom decide what she wants to do.

    #68899 Report Abuse
    crazy4cats
    Member

    Good luck tomorrow, Akari!

    #68901 Report Abuse
    Akari_32
    Member

    Thanks girl! I hope this whole potty situation is just a phase. I’m going to try and get a pee sample for the vet before we go tomorrow, but I’m not too sure how that’ll work out lol

    #68904 Report Abuse
    crazy4cats
    Member

    I’m taking my senior hyper-t kitty in to the vet tomorrow also. She hasn’t been eating great and won’t take her meds. I want them to take a look at her mouth. I don’t think she has many teeth left. I’m hoping I won’t be in the same boat as you with making difficult decisions. Take Care.

    #68906 Report Abuse
    Akari_32
    Member

    Aww poor baby πŸ™ let us know how it goes!

    #68934 Report Abuse
    Akari_32
    Member

    Hey guys! Vet visit went very well. She has lost about a pound since the last time they weighed her, when ever the first time she saw this vet was, but other than that, everything is about as good as it can be. The urinalysis turned up nothing, so she’s just being a senile pain in the butt brat when it comes to pottying on the floor lol

    We talked about what the best course of action would be, told him we were between just going for the dental and hoping for the best, or doing antibiotics and denamarin and then after a period of time doing the dental with no further blood testing, and again, hoping for the best. He agreed it would increase her chances if we put her on a good run of antibiotics and denamarin and went from there. So he gave her two weeks of batryl (sp?) and a month of denamarin.

    The denamarin is once a day on an empty stomach, which is going to prove itself quite hard to give lol She won’t eat anything bitter. I had some pill pockets, so I got just a little tiny bit of one, not quite the size of the pill, and covered as much of the pill as i could. She did eat that, thankfully. Fingers crossed she doesn’t figure it out LOL The antibiotic can be tossed in her food. She doesn’t pick through her food.

    So, $100-something later, we’re playing the wait and see game right now. They asked for an update in a couple weeks, which works out good because I have another dog and a cat that need their rabies shots in a week or so. Though I really hope they don’t charge an office visit for vaccines, because my bank account can’t take much more LOL

    #69466 Report Abuse
    Akari_32
    Member

    Hey guys, anyone care to check out these pictures of Ginger laying down and tell what you thing of this bulge in her lower rib cage area? I mean, she’s always been like that, but it really seems to be larger.

    http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/AB5FC0D1-9719-4190-ABD5-098B33D9642E_zpsnw0hlwdv.jpg

    http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/54F7E842-9DA4-4D45-AE88-EBE928BB1474_zpsrzsx5sn9.jpg

    http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/2258191B-0481-44AF-B03B-3CCFD446C656_zpsblqqvybh.jpg

    She’s at a point now where all she does is sleep, pee on the floor, and eat. Although she is in a good mood when ever she is awake, especially when food is involved. But I’m pretty sure she sleeps like 22.5 hours out of the day at this point. She does demand attention from mom every night that she sits at the desk. She’ll stand at moms feet and bark, and if she gets up, she’ll lead mom to the kitchen and show her where the treats are XD Apparently moms work makes Ginger jealous, and hungry LOL And she leaps in the air gets really excited for her dinner. And if she gets hungry, she will stand in the middle of the house and bark at me, and show me where the kitchen is and where the food is, and then she shows me where the bowl goes (regardless of if I have it or not) πŸ˜›

    #69480 Report Abuse
    crazy4cats
    Member

    Oh, Akari, Baby Girl-
    Yes, I’m adopting you as my internet daughter since I only have boys! Just do not be forwarding me any parking or traffic violation tickets like they do! LOL! I’m glad you have a plan of action for Ginger. I hope it goes well. The bigger bulge can’t be good. The good news is that she still is eating and is happy when she is awake! Again, she is so lucky to have you guys to spend these difficult times with.
    My senior kitty does have a rotten tooth. We are trying a different type of medication (topical in her ear) to get her thyroid levels down before we think about putting her under anesthesia. I’ll let you know how it goes.
    Keep smiling! πŸ™‚

    #69484 Report Abuse
    Anonymous
    Member

    I don’t really see any bulge. But, the next time you have the opportunity I would get her nails clipped, the back ones look like they are starting to curl under. Or, it could just be the camera angle…
    I have to do my senior once a month, otherwise, it can become painful for him to walk.

    #69486 Report Abuse
    Akari_32
    Member

    Awwww thanks girl! :3 I’ll try my hardest to refrain LOL

    Mom is back to not wanting the dental. Ginger has dropped even more weight since the last vet appointment, and over all she doesn’t seem well. The antibiotics are helping her mouth and runny nose, though. I’m unsure if she’s not been on the denamarin long enough to see results, or if she’s too far gone for it work (today was day 10). Sometimes you can see in her face that’s miserable, but most of the time she’s so happy. When you responded just now, we were actually outside and she was rolling in the grass, soaking up some sun, her little tail wagging a mile a minute, and eyes so bright. She’s such a cutie lol We will probably just keep her on the denamarin until she doesn’t have any quality of life. Right now she’s happy, so we’ll take it day by day. My cousins (9 and 11) will be here next weeks, so let’s hope nothing happens while they’re here o.o’

    She’s low on food right now, too. I guess I’ll have mom order just one bag. Now to decide if I should up her portions, or leave her a half cup….

    How does that thyroid medication work?? Never heard of anything like that before. And I just saw an ad on my local craigslist for no-anesthetic dentals. Not sure how it works, but that may be something to look into if your guys teeth aren’t too bad.

    LM, the plan was to cut her nails when she went under for a dental, because she acts like getting her nails cut is the end of the world. First we have to get the muzzle on (that’s a job in and of itself!), then we have to tag team her and one of us holds her while the other cuts, neither of which are easy tasks, because she puts up a fight big enough for a 100 lb dog. It is in the horizon, however. Mom and I just have to be home together at a time where neither of us have to rush off to work. We’ve both got off until the 5th, so it’ll happen soon enough.

    #69488 Report Abuse
    Anonymous
    Member

    “no-anesthetic dentals”

    Even though your pet’s teeth – what you can see of them – may look clean and fresh after an anesthesia-free dental procedure, what you can’t see is actually more important. Problems like tartar buildup below the gum line and gingivitis aren’t addressed during a procedure that only scrapes and polishes the teeth. Most oral disease happens below the visible surfaces of your dog’s or cat’s mouth.

    #69490 Report Abuse
    Akari_32
    Member

    But if the animal can’t be put under for whatever reason, it’s still better than letting their teeth rot out of their head.

    #69491 Report Abuse
    Anonymous
    Member

    Re: anesthesia-free dental
    The teeth will look better, it won’t stop any decaying process that is already in progress.
    That is why it is a popular procedure for show dogs. The results tend to be more cosmetic, often groomers offer this…nothing wrong with it, but it’s not a real cleaning.

    Daily brushing will accomplish the same thing (imo), but once infection sets in, it’s a different ball game.

    #69494 Report Abuse
    Anonymous
    Member

    Another idea, if it is really that difficult. Maybe you could ask your vet for a sedative to give her 1 hour prior to the nail clipping?
    However, I have found that it is usually not necessary, as long as you have someone that is experienced in nail clipping….it can be done very quickly.
    In my area Especially for Pets does it for $7 and it goes to charity, so call around.

    I understand the dilemma regarding putting a senior dog under anesthesia, I monitor my old guy closely and I don’t want to go there either…… but if I think he is in pain, I will not hesitate to take him to the emergency vet and go along with what they recommend.

    #69496 Report Abuse
    crazy4cats
    Member

    Lol! I’d like to see you catch my 16 year old, seven pound half feral cat to brush her teeth! Just like with Ginger’s toe nails and our human children we sometimes have to pick our battles. Out of respect for Akari and Ginger, I don’t want to to hijack this thread. Have a great week with your cousins, Akari!

    #69499 Report Abuse
    Akari_32
    Member

    The cutting itself isn’t the problem, its that Ginger sees everything out of the ordinary as life threatening, and I’m pretty sure she’s part cat and isn’t attached to her skin at all. She’s also very strong for such a small dog. I have thought about slipping her a Benadryl or something before any vet visits or at-home procedures, but I’m sure thats frowned upon LOL Cheapest for a vet to cut nails around here is $10, but the problem with that is even just standing in the lobby of the vet’s office is extremely stressful for her. It’s less stressful for her to do it at home, even though it’s marginally so. At least when it’s done at home, once the muzzle comes off and she gets a treat, she can go sulk in her cage for a while and then everything is right in the world again. Anything to do with the vet is a huge ordeal and ruins her day. She’ll either be in a nasty mood, or extremely pathetic for the rest of the day. She’s a bit dramatic. While you’re at it catching C4C’s cat for a tooth brushing, could you cut Gingers nails and brush her teeth, too?? LOL

    #69500 Report Abuse
    Akari_32
    Member

    As far as the bulging goes, I got on the computer and edited one of the pics.

    http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/1.jpg_zpsyrl8bywg.png

    #69594 Report Abuse
    Akari_32
    Member

    So mom and I were talking this morning, and she wants to put Ginger on the kidney prescription diet. I suppose since it’s her dog, it’s her choice, but ugh! That stuff looks so wrong! The two biggest things I’m worried about are that is has a very high fat to protein ratio (13% fat, while just 12% protein), and that is has sugar the 5th ingredient. The corn, I can handle. Sure, it’s not the best ingredient, but many dogs do fine on a diet rather high in corn. But Sugar? For real? I suppose at this point I’ll just go with it. We’ll get one bag, see how she does, and go from there. I hate to take her off the JM, because it’s actually a pretty decent food for a prescription diet, and it’s helped her joints so much, but the NF kidney food does have Omega’s and such in it, as well. I also plan to start her on turmeric (I will be having mom order the stuff off Amazon here soon), and probably ginger root, if I can find enough info on it.

    Oh, and on that note, I just found out, not too long ago, that one of moms friends is a holist vet, with an office just under an hour away from us! I mentioned in passing that she could probably really help Ginger, with out pumping her full of medications and prescription diets. Maybe mom will consider it. I know she feels a sense of loyalty to our current vet, since we’ve been using him so about 15 years, but he’s a little too traditional (doesn’t even have three year cat rabies vaccines!) and laid back for my liking. I do like he lets me get away with not doing certain procedures, though…. lol

    And if anyone would like to share in my heebie-jeebies, you go…

    https://www.purinaveterinarydiets.com/pet-food-nutrition/canine/products/nf-kidney-function/

    #69607 Report Abuse
    crazy4cats
    Member

    Hi Akari-
    Regarding the feline rabies vaccine, the one-year vaccine may be a better choice if it is the non-adjuvanted type rather than the adjuvanted. A new 3-year non-a came out in the fall, but many vets (including mine) are not offering it yet. The 3-year traditional feline rabies is very risky. Read this article from cat info dot org for more information:

    http://www.catinfo.org/?link=vaccines

    I just had two of my younger cats vaccinated for rabies and chose the 1-year at this time. I’m choosing not to vaccinate my older ones any longer. They do not go outside anymore.

    Hope everything is going well with Ginger!

    #69643 Report Abuse
    Akari_32
    Member

    I don’t even think I’ll vacinate him at this point. He was a stray when we got him, and he was a big, healthy boy, and then I got all the vaccines (or most of them, can’t remember), so I’d say his immune system is good for now. Maybe in a couple years I’ll get him another rabies.

    So, for some reason, I totally mixed up the liver diet and the kidney diet. Probably because I was going back and forth between Purina and Hill’s. Hill’s has a Liver diet, and Purina has a kidney diet. The Hill’s liver diet is waaaaayyyyyyyy to high in fat. It’s got some sort of fat (pork, I think) as the second or so ingredient, and it’s twice as high as the protein. I will *not* be cleaning up that mess, thank you! So I was looking at the Purina kidney diet, linked above, thinking it was the same as Hill’s liver diet. They do have the same characteristics, so I’ll be going to the vet tomorrow and have him look it over and see what he thinks. Ginger needs food, and she needs it soon, if we are going to change her food. I should have been paying closer attention to that! Lol

    She’s doing good right now. The kids are too stubourn to follow dirrections and put Gingers leash on before she gets out of the cage (they like to help with the dogs), so she’s pee’d on the floor a floor a few more times than usual in the last couple days, but otherwise just does her usual sleeping, and then at some point gets up and demands to eat dinner, then goes back to sleep after her stomach is full lol

    #69714 Report Abuse
    Dori
    Member

    Hi Akari. I just read your posts on the comments side and wanted to tell you that Denamarin IS a combination of Sam-e and Milk Thistle which is why the vet has Ginger on that particular medication. Hannah has been on it once a day since beginning of last Spring. She takes the chewable version. She thinks they’re a treat. She gets 225 mg daily as per her specialist. I also give her 1/4 teaspoon of canine immunity by Standard Process. All of this is for her liver which is now on the lower range of normal. I also give her daily a vitamin E capsule once a day. The vitamin e I poke a hole in the capsule with a pin and squirt it on her food. She’ll be on this routine for the rest of her life. The Denamarin I give her one and a half hours before her p.m. Meal. Easier for me and her than having to get up so early to give before breakfast. Of course she gets a ton of other supplements and essential oil and aromatherapy but those are for her cancers. She’s doing remarkably well on the cancer issues. She also only eats raw.

    Anyway, I haven’t been on DFA in a while and probably won’t be again but I did see your discussion with crazy4dogs where she was telling you to add milk thistle and I wanted you to know that you already are. It’s one of the components in Denamarin. If I can help any more regarding Ginger either email me or go to my FB page. One more thing. Amazon has better prices on Denamarin than the vets do. That’s where I buy mine. It’s the same exact product. My vet is the one that told me to buy it on Amazon. Night!

    #69800 Report Abuse
    Akari_32
    Member

    Thanks Dori πŸ™‚

    I have some news for you guys! I don’t know if its just a coincidence with the cooler weather, but the last two days, Ginger seems to be feeling great. She’s willingly walked around the front side walk, rather than just running out to pee, and then running frantically back into the house, and she’s been quite bossy about dinner time and things my cousins are doing (I’m pretty sure she barked for a solid hour this morning because the kids were goofing off and she didn’t appreciate it lol). It’s going to warm back up over the weekend, so we’ll see if this improvement, lasts, but I really hope it does. As much as I love a dog that sleeps all day, I like seeing her feel better.

    I’m currently working out if a change in diet is going to benefit her in any way, and how the best way to go about it would be if I do decide to do it. I tell you, looking on how to balance home cooked dog food is a tiring business!

    #70054 Report Abuse
    Akari_32
    Member

    Hi guys! I’m noticing some great improvements in Gingers over all mindset the last several days. She’s been waking up earlier, between 9 and 11 am, rather than her usual 12 to 1, and she’s been up and about more often during the day. She’s also been doing much better about pottying in the house. She’s also been very happy to walk around the corner and back when we go out for potty breaks, rather than digging her feet in and refusing to go further than necessary to pee and go back in the house. She’s also put all her weight back on (and seems quite determined to put even more on because she’s demanding snacks all the time! LOL), and mom has even gotten her to play a little bit πŸ™‚ She’s get 8 days of Denamarin left, so I’ll be talking to the vet about maybe keeping her on it. As soon as I’m done being sick, I’ll be getting the others in for shots/HW tests, as well as Gingers check up @[email protected]

    #70070 Report Abuse
    crazy4cats
    Member

    Hi Akari-
    That is great news!!! What did you decide to feed her?

    #70071 Report Abuse
    Akari_32
    Member

    Thanks! I’m glad she’s feeling better πŸ™‚ For now, she’s still on JM for now. I tried to figure out the Balance It website, or to contact the vets the made up the home made liver diets, but I can’t manage either :/ There are concerns that the potatoes in the home made liver diet would be too inflammatory for her joint issues (even on JM she’s back to limping and being a bit stiff again, but still has spunk enough to goof off and go up and down steps, so I don’t think I’d even be able to combat the potatoes with suppliments, etc), so I’m pretty reluctant to take her off it. If she’s doing this well just 22 day into Denamarin and still on a “regular” food, I can only assume that she’ll continue to do better even longer like this. I don’t know enough about canine nutrition, medications and prescription diets to really say for sure though.

    #70397 Report Abuse
    Akari_32
    Member

    So mom just got home from work and informed me that Ginger lost a tooth. Since mom doesn’t want to do the dental, I’ve been trying to encourage some of her teeth to fall out on their own by not putting as much water in her food, and not letting it soak as long, so that about a quarter of her her food is still pretty crunchy. Apparently it’s working. Do you all think I’m doing the right thing, trying to make the yucky teeth fall out?

    And for your viewing pleasure, heres a pic of the tooth that fell out πŸ˜‰

    http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/10FE34BD-2B78-4A1F-A70B-45925C075FCE_zpsldnjaahc.jpg

    #70398 Report Abuse
    crazy4cats
    Member

    Eeew! I wouldn’t have known that was a tooth. Poor baby! Does your get think it’s too risky to put Ginger under anesthesia to do the dental? I know it’s expensive.

    #70399 Report Abuse
    Akari_32
    Member

    It’s a molar, angled upwards a little bit. I think it’s also missing a set of roots. The vet said he’d be fine with giving her a dental, but mom doesn’t want to do it anymore because of how her blood work came back, even though she had wanted to do the denamarin for a month and do the dental. She changes her mind a lot. Maybe since Gingers doing so well on the denamarin she’ll change her mind again. It really does need to be done, however her mouth does smell a lot better these days. She’s just got normal dog breath, not rotting carcass breath lol

    #70404 Report Abuse
    Dori
    Member

    Wow, Akari. I’ve never seen a dog’s tooth in that bad a shape. You weren’t exaggerating when you said Ginger’s teeth were in bad shape. She has got to be in pain with the condition that her teeth are in. If the dental is not going to be done, which by the way I definitely think should be done, they you’re probably better off not putting water in her food so that she’s forced to chew and maybe lose the worst of the teeth. Just make sure she’s drinking plenty of water of it’s going to screw up her kidney’s. Also so that you know, even though she will lose the most offending teeth, that isn’t going to do anything for any disease that she has under the gums that will eventually get into her blood system if it hasn’t already.

    As for the Denamarin, as you know Hannah had very high liver levels though not as high as Ginger’s were/are. Hannah’s is due to the tumor in her bladder and the mass on one of the lobes of a lung. Because of her age I have been told not only by her vet but also by two of her specialist vets that Hannah will be on the Denamarin for the rest of her life. I give her one whole tablet (specialists and her vets recommendations) 1 1/2 hours before her dinner every single day. I have been doing this for a year now and her liver levels are now in the normal range. We tried dropping it to 1/2 tablet per day but her liver levels started to rise again. I have forgotten to mention to you all along that Hannah is on the chewable version. The tablet is scored and I just break it in half for her and she chews them both up. She loves the taste. That might also be another way for Ginger to loose bad molars.

    When the vet got her blood work back I thought he didn’t want to due the dental because of her liver and kidney levels? But now he feels it’s okay even though he hasn’t done blood work again? I don’t understand? Look, I’m no vet that’s for sure but I’m seriously thinking that her liver levels and perhaps kidney, are due to the constant infections coming from her mouth. I also think it’s doing tremendous harm to have her on antibiotics as often as the vet has. He’s just treating symptoms which vets seem to like to do. He’s not really treating what’s wrong with her. Antibiotics are horrible for the organs and the gut and every other part of your internal body. I think your mom has gotten so attached to Ginger that she’s afraid to lose her. Can Ginger die through surgery? Yes. But so can anyone going under anaesthesia (sp?). At some point as guardians of animals we have to realize that the quality of their lives counts more than our not wanting to let go. Honestly, I’m thrilled to hear that Ginger is doing better and also that she lost that horrible molar. Are you giving her 1/4 teaspoon of coconut oil a day? If not, you should be. Ginger has probably been so snappish when anywhere near her mouth because she’s been in so much pain for so long. You know how painful it is yourself when you have a tooth ache. One of the worst pains. Toothaches, back aches and child birth are by far the worst pains ever. I’d rather give birth again than deal with tooth aches.

    #70406 Report Abuse
    Akari_32
    Member

    She won’t eat her food if it’s all dry. Hurts her mouth too much, I’d assume. She doesn’t mind a few crunchy pieces, so I figure it’s better than nothing with some of them still being hard. I do still have some mint flavored Denta Sticks that I had planned on donating. Maybe I could give her one of those every couple days, as well?

    I did ask about the chewable Denamarin, but they apparently don’t have that.

    The vet has been fine with doing the dental all along, it’s mom now that keeps going back and forth. After the blood work came came, he did say he wanted to do the Denamarin and Baytril for a while first, and then do the dental, but he’s never said he’s not wanted to do it (the other antibiotics, previously, were given on my request to at least help fend off some of the infection in her mouth some while I got more information, and then later, while I got mom on board). Mom’s the one keeping us from getting it done at this point. The dental is coming from her pocket, because I paid for the blood work. She’s doesn’t want anything to happen to Ginger while she’s under anesthesia, which I understand, but I do feel like it she would be ok at this point. Ginger’s almost completely different now, so much more spunkier, and actually wanting to do things. At this point, because it is moms dog, and money, all I can do it just bug her about it. Ginger’s do for a check up here in less than a week, and I have heart worm tests for the others to get done, so I’ll talk to the vet then and see what he says.

    I have tried giving coconut oil before, but it upsets her stomach so bad that I don’t think it’d be wise to go down that road again LOL

    #70409 Report Abuse
    crazy4cats
    Member

    Akari-
    Did you get an estimate for the dental? I received one for my 15 year old cat and it isn’t going to be cheap that’s for sure, but i think am going to go through with it. Her blood results were better than Ginger’s but still risky due to age. I know the scare your mom feels both in her her heart and pocketbook!

    #70410 Report Abuse
    Akari_32
    Member

    It’s at least $150, and each tooth pulled in extra. Not to mention, the AC, toilet, and water heater all went out at the same time, all three beyond repair, spewing water everywhere. Fantastic *rolls eyes* That’s not helping the dental situation right now either lol

    #70412 Report Abuse
    Dog_Obsessed
    Member

    Sounds like your household appliance systems have all teamed up against you. πŸ˜›
    On a more serious note, I agree with your views about the dental. I can see that your mom would be very concerned because of her age and blood work, but I agree that it sounds like it would make her a lot more comfortable. I know it must be really frustrating not to be able to make the decision, so just keep on doing what you’ve been doing with the nagging for now. I’m glad that Ginger has been feeling better lately. πŸ˜€

    #70413 Report Abuse
    Akari_32
    Member

    Yes, every couple years half the appliances all die at the same time, at the worst possible time life can throw at us. Screw you, appliances, screw you! Lol

    I’m very happy with how Ginger is doing now that she’s been on the denamarin for a while. Once we get all these water-spewing problems figured out, I’ll be getting back on mom about getting Ginger a dental.

    #70418 Report Abuse
    Dori
    Member

    Hi Akari. When I first started giving coconut oil to my three girls I had to start with teeny tiny little bit otherwise they would get very loose stools.

    Denamarin is sold on Amazon and a few other on line sites. My vet even told me to get it on line cause it would be less expensive. I get the chewable for small dogs. Denamarin is not a prescription only supplement.

    I understand that it’s you mother’s money but you were the one that brought her into your home and your mother didn’t want Ginger to begin with so that makes Ginger your dog, not your mother’s dog. Ginger’s your dog, but I guess your mother is paying the bills.

    #70466 Report Abuse
    InkedMarie
    Member

    Ginger needs the dental. It borders on abusive to NOT do it. Her mouth is hurting, how fair is that to let her suffer? Sorry but I don’t care about money. WE choose to have animals, that makes it our responsibility to have needed vet care done.

    When we met Gemma, she had 15 teeth. Ten days later, after a spay & dental, she had none. She developed kidney disease & my vet thinks it’s from her rotten mouth. Ten, I thought the owner was negligent/abusive for letting her get into thatt shape and then I blamed the rescue, who didn’t do the dentl until they had an adopter. Heaven forbid we don’t take care of her teeth to make her healthy <insert eyeroll>

    #70467 Report Abuse
    Dori
    Member

    Hi Akari. Ginger has been on my mind since I saw her molar and the condition that it was in. I feel that it would be total neglect on my part not to speak up. I know that I championed you on bringing her into your home initially but now I have to say that I wish you hadn’t. Had you not taken her into your home Ginger would have crossed over the rainbow bridge a long time ago and she would be pain free. I am all for doing all that I can for my dogs so long as the longevity of their lives is quality for them, not longevity for me. I am not going to say that what you are doing is bordering on abuse, I am going to say it outright. It is inhumane what you have put Ginger through and are continuing to do so. You are very quick to make your mother the “fall guy”. You say Ginger’s your mother’s dog and you have no say in the matter. That’s not true. You took it upon yourself to bring Ginger in to your home and convince your mother into letting you keep her. That makes her your dog. You have put Ginger through more rounds of antibiotics in the short time that you have had Ginger that most dogs have in two life times. I have two dogs that have never been on antibiotics with all their problems. You are always very proud of your purchases with coupons, be it for dog food, fish food, cat food and cat litter. You’ve got tons of it. The caring, loving, conscientious dog guardian would have spent the money on Ginger’s dental work. When ever it is convenient you chose to call Ginger your mother’s dog. She’s not your mother’s dog. She’s your dog. I wish you had let her go. She’s in pain, she’s suffering. I fear you are much too young to know the difference between quantity and quality. I am apologizing here to Ginger for encouraging you to have become her guardian. I truly from the bottom of my heart feel that she would have suffered less had you let her go.

    I also apologize to anyone on DFA if anyone feels that I am being too hard on Akari but this has been going on for over a year. For over a year that poor little old dachshund has suffered more than anyone one of us would have let our dogs, cats, children or ourselves suffered. I for one am tired of hearing about all the excuses why this poor little dog that should be showed unconditional love should still be suffering. If anyone doesn’t like my post, frankly I don’t care. I’m saying what most on DFA forums have been thinking but didn’t have the guts to say.

    #70486 Report Abuse
    LabsRawesome
    Member

    Akari, Ginger needed a dental over a year ago when you first got her. It is a fact that kidney disease is caused by dental disease. It is just plain abuse to let her suffer with a mouth full of rotten teeth. Do you even realize how much agony she’s in? Please tell me how long you would have a toothache before you went to the dentist? Days? Weeks? Months? A Freakin year? Do you realize that failure to provide medical treatment to your dog is illegal? Depending on what state you’re in it may even be a felony. You are more concerned with stocking up on dog/cat food and ridiculous things that your pets don’t really even need. A large cat tree and raised food/water bowls. Really!? This is what you spend your time and money on while Ginger suffers in agony with a mouth full of rotten teeth? I just can’t wrap my mind around the fact that you have let her suffer needlessly for a year. My God this is extreme cruelty. And your ridiculous claims of every major appliance breaking at the same time are no excuse to let her suffering continue. Neither is the fact that she may die during her dental. She would be better off if she did pass than living another day in excruciating pain. You can end her suffering in one of two ways. Either get her teeth removed, or have her put to sleep. Please end her suffering. Don’t wait another day. I would also like to add that I do not care if my post offends you or anyone else. I have spoken the truth, and given a voice to the voiceless. That is all.

    #70490 Report Abuse
    Anonymous
    Member

    Okay, let’s take it easy on Akari. Many well educated, intelligent people don’t understand the importance of dental care for their pets.

    All we can do is try to educate and be supportive. I have an old guy myself that I need to take in for an exam soon. Not looking forward to it, but it is what it is.

    I like to think that because I am an RN, I can take care of most things myself. But even I know that pain and infection are not “do it yourself” projects.

    PS: Akari if you are reading this, consider putting the cost of the surgery on a credit card (if it is within your means) or start a Go Fund Me account, just some ideas, call around, there are organizations that may be able to help you.

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