[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Karen –

Because he’s a puppy I would suggest feeding him 4% of his body weight – which would be about 3.84 oz. per day. I’d divide this into 3 feedings (about 1.28 oz. per feeding) until he’s 6 months old, at this point in time you could probably start feeding him twice a day. After he’s 6 months old you may need to reduce the amount to closer to 3 or 3.5% of high body weight and after a year you may need to drop him to 2.5-3%. Small breed dogs do tend to require more calories per pound of body weight but just monitor his body condition closely and adjust the amounts he’s fed as necessary – these are all just general guidelines.

Blue Ridge Beef is not a balanced food so it will be necessary to supplement the meals. I can’t locate an ingredient list or nutrient panel anywhere for Dog Bloom so I can’t tell you whether or not that would balance the Blue Ridge grinds – I highly doubt it though. Most pet vitamin/mineral supplements are designed to be fed with a balanced meal so don’t contain high enough levels of certain nutrients.

[Karen D]

Hi everyone! My name is Karen and I have an almost 4 month old mini dachshund. I am brand new here and hope you can help me out!

He is eating Blue Buffalo with some cooked chicken breast now. I have 3 cats that have eaten raw for 5 years…2 years ago we moved them to Blueridge Beef. We have to keep him separated from them or he will race over there to gobble it up faster than you could believe LOL!

He starts in August and my question is how much should I feed him? He is almost 6 pounds now..projected to be 10-12 pounds according to what his parents weigh. I read 2.5% of that….so does that mean about 2.5 ounces per feeding (3x’s a day)?
Also, BRB only has 1 organ meat in it (liver). Do I need to add something else? This is the total break down of their puppy mix: ground beef, chicken, green tripe, beef heart, chicken bone and beef liver. I add a supplement to my cats’ food too (Kitty Bloom). Should I add the Dog Bloom to this?

Thanks in advance!!

[Lilmonster]

Hi everyone!

Another lurker here eager and (almost) ready to make the switch to raw. Like other newbies, I have so much respect for everyone here for not only committing so much time and effort to their fur babies, but also taking the time to answer endless, potentially stupid questions from nervous dog moms like me! I would never even have known about raw diets, let alone been able to work up the nerve to take the plunge if it weren’t for this forum, so thanks to all of you!

Some background info: My fiancé and I just adopted our little one, Lily, two months ago from a rescue. She’s 41 lbs and the vet estimates her age at around 1, much younger than the rescue thought – her teeth were pretty yellow when we first got her but presumably because she wasn’t given anything to chew on to clean plaque, so they thought she was 2 yrs 8 months (!), which leads me to think she sadly may have been malnourished as a puppy since they were feeding her as an adult. As soon as we gave her bones and chew toys her teeth became pearly white. Anyway, we switched her to Fromm’s Surf and Turf kibble when we got her, but we noticed she started itching more and more. Took her to the vet to ask about the itchiness as well as a suspected UTI, but the diagnosis for the itching was understandably vague. We’re not sure if it’s a food allergy or environmental – she doesn’t have fleas, and we’re pretty sure it’s not a yeast issue. She doesn’t smell yeasty at all and I think the vet would have picked up on that. So after a recent bout of diarrhea due to too many high fat treats after a training session, I figured it would be a good time to begin the transition to raw after her system cleared up. I fasted her for a meal then fed her a mixture of white rice and pumpkin for two meals, which brought her poos back to normal, then began feeding her a 50-50 mix of ground turkey and pumpkin with the See Spot Live Longer mix added in. The vet is holistic and also trained in Chinese medicine, and she suggested that I switch to beef instead of turkey since chicken and turkey is considered “hot” and could be contributing to the itchiness, so yesterday I made the switch to ground beef and her poo was still fine this morning. But then I remembered reading somewhere (I think on preymodelraw) that it’s not recommended to start with beef, but I think for the time being I’ll stick with it just to avoid changing her diet too many times (unless anyone here would strongly advise against starting with beef?). At the moment, her daily food (divided into two meals) is 1 lb 90% lean ground beef + 2 tbsp SSLL + 1/2 tsp hempseed oil + 1 tsp coconut oil (just started adding it) + 1 human probiotic. She is also currently on a one week course of antibiotics for the urinary problem.

I have Steve Brown’s Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet, ordered the Dr. Becker’s book, and have read through many of the threads on this forum but like other newbies I’m getting lost in all the information and feeling as overwhelmed as Cyndi was in the thread where she first started, lol. I’m thinking of sticking to the ground boneless meat with the See Spot Live Longer mix for a bit while I figure out all the supplements that are needed and place my meat orders. A few questions that I’d really appreciate if someone could help out with:

– I know you can’t add the See Spot Live Longer dinner mix to bone-in meats, but am I also correct in assuming that if I begin adding RMBs in the PM and continue to feed boneless ground meat + See Spot Live Longer mix in the AM that it would be too much calcium? Ideally I’d like to continue using the SSLL simply because it’s the easiest way for me to not have to worry that her nutrition is unbalanced while I’m still learning to balance her meals myself. I did see the most recent topic mentioning CarnivoreRaw but that’s a bit out of my budget. Hound Dog Mom, do you use the Twinlab Daily One with or without iron? Also, I noticed the Twinlab does have calcium in it, does that not matter because the amount is so low? If I choose to go the multivitamin route, can I then add other things like fruits and veggies and such without worrying about overloading on a specific vitamin/mineral or will I have to be careful with what I add?

– This may be a bit much to ask, but if one of the veterans has the time to respond I would be so grateful. Could someone make a list of the essential vitamins/minerals (or alternatively, foods that will provide those vitamins and minerals) that MUST be added to a diet that consists of boneless meat in the AM and RMBs in the PM, and the approximate amounts? This is the part I’m feeling especially in over my head with. Vitamin D, vitamin E, fish oil, manganese, so many different things I’m seeing that they need, it’s hard to not feel kind of scared to do it all from scratch, which is my eventual goal. I think I’m having a hard time figuring out what is absolutely necessary vs. optional but ideal.

– So from what I’ve read so far it seems to be a good idea to start her on chicken backs and quarters, then begin alternating boneless meat every other meal. How many meals should I feed the backs and quarters before I begin incorporating boneless meals? Also, should I already be giving her supplements during this time, or should I wait until she adjusts then begin adding supplements. As for stuff like organ meats, heart, and green tripe, how long should I wait before beginning to incorporate those? I promise I have read the other threads, but I’ve seen a few different recommendations on timelines so I thought I’d pose the question again just so I can be clear about it.

Thanks in advance to anyone willing to take the time to answer my questions!

[Corinne M]

Hi Jennifer,
I’m so glad to hear that the info was helpful – I remember how hard & overwhelming it was for me to learn about pancreatitis when it my dog was going through it. So it’s nice to know that someone else can make use of what I learned. I’m sorry to her about your experience with the vet – I think I just lucked out with mine. But I don’t want to leave you with the impression that your vet did anything wrong in prescribing Prednisone, because I think that it’s something that is widely used to treat specific problems, but just like any drug or herbal remedy, there are times & cases when it’s just better to avoid it – an argument could be made that giving your dog a corticosteroid so that he’s not in constant misery from the itchiness is a compassionate thing to do. The flip side is, there are risks associated with using it and if the “itchies” can be eliminated through diet & supplements maybe that’s worth trying.
I also don’t know why they are pushing Royal Canin – maybe they’ve had other dogs do well on it and think it’s the right thing for Milo. But I agree with you, if you suspect it’s triggering allergies it’s worthwhile to look at other foods.
My dog’s are doing great on what I feed them – I alternate between homecooked, home-prepare raw, and commercially prepare raw. But here’s the thing – I only started doing this about 4 years ago because one of my dogs had a blown-out immune system & I had to learn how to feed him in a way that was anti-inflammatory, avoided chemicals, avoided allergens, etc. etc. And to be honest, I have made mistakes along the way that could have done more harm than good (for example, I got the phosphorus/calcium ratio totally wrong for awhile and only discovered it after labwork came back with creatinine levels waaaaay high – I could have caused kidney failure in my dogs if that had not been caught & corrected). And I still consider myself to be learning – so I keep a close eye on them and read everything I can get my hands on and keep it simple and safe. I will do some research for you & report back what I find, but in the meantime, keep up your search for a nutritionally complete & balanced high-quality commercial food that meets the requirements for Milo’s pancreas.
I do think a simple boiled chicken & rice diet is useful when dogs are sick – fewer ingredients to upset their system. But, the recommended fat ratio for a dog with damaged pancreas is REALLY specific so I would only home cook right now if I knew for certain that the recipe I used was safe in terms of fat ratio. The recipe I used after Max had pancreatitis was formulated for me to deal with his other issues but I’ll look for info on a basic safe recipe for you.
BTW: Thanks to the other posters who found my post helpful. I learn so much from you all and from this website! I really appreciate the resources & people here!
Corinne

[Jennifer H]

Thank you, everyone for answering my post. To be honest with you, I never really researched dog foods until he ended up with Pancreatitis. We have always had poodles and none of them ever had issues until Milo. It was when the Pancreatitis happened, that I found this site and began to truly research dog foods. I agree with you magnoliasouth that Natures Recipe is not the best food. I really do not feel right feeding him something I can not eat and is not the best after educating myself on what is truly in pet foods. Truly, I do not know what caused the attack, I am just going by what the vet said, that pig ears are high in fat. Milo had only eaten his grain free dog food, grain free treats and a pig ear before his attack. My neighbors were aware of his allergies and I have again made it clear that he is to have nothing to eat. The vet said that it would be hard to determine exactly what caused the attack, they are just speculating the pig ear is the cause of it. As for the Royal Canin, i stopped it within about 2 days of purchasing the case of it from the vet. I now realize that the vet promotes that junk.

I have looked at the list of low fat/low sodium on here but I am still worried that some of them may still be too high in fat for him. My other worry is with a lot of the limited ingredient diets, there is a lot of starchy foods instead of grain, which promotes yeast. I am still working my way through the list and was not aware of the other thread with the low fat/low sodium foods, so I will look at that as well.

Corinne, your post has been so helpful to me, with lots of information. I do not feel it was preachy at all, but very very helpful. Unfortanately, I am not at all happy with my vet. There answer was and still is “royal canin”. Most of the time, I am speaking with a tech. My vet has dismissed my concerns about Milo’s food allergies and continually states that it’s “season allergies”. Not to seem more knowledgeable then the vet, but I know how Milo acts when he is having a food allergy. I am looking for another vet in the meantime. I did give Milo some Benadryl, but I did not give him the Prednisone after the attack. I honestly didn’t know it could cause Pancreatitis, and I am now wondering why the vet did not know this as well. They actually gave him Prednisone for another issue in April, so I am wondering now if that is what caused the pancreatitis.

With all my recent research, I did read about the pancreatic enzyme, which I am starting to give him. I would love to fed him a homemade diet w/ supplements. Another area I have read a lot about. Corinne, is there any pointers you can give me? Or maybe steer me in the right direction of recipes, supplements, etc. to begin dong this? Also, I have read that Chicken and Rice diet is ok to feed him, while I know it is not balanced, would it be ok to feed him this diet until I have his food situation under control?

You have given me so much direction, I am very thankful and plan on getting to work on as much as I can right away.

[Mom2Cavs]

Hi! I have one sensitive Cavalier, too. The other two can eat pretty much anything within reason. They are all doing great on Wellness Small Breed….I alternate between Simple, Whitefish, Healthy Weight and Senior. I love their SB Senior but it only comes in 4lb bags. I have been topping with a small amount of canned food…Wellness, Weruva and Simply Nourish. I also am using, atm, Ark Naturals Gentle Digest (a pre/probiotic) and a supplement called Firm Up, which is dried pumpkin and apple pectin (a tsp. a day divided between meals). Three days a week they get a coq10 supplement, too. I haven’t had any gland problems since doing this. There are some other foods I like and would use, too, and they’re Annamaet, Victor, Dr. Tim’s and Fromm.

[pugmomsandy]

CarnivorRaw from youngagainpetfood.com has the bone-in supplement.

[fey W]

Raw is less wasteful, cheaper and much easier. On raw the dog gets to eat zero carbs and chew on bones to naturally keep teeth clean and possibly sugar levels more stable. It is low in ingredients so perfect for allergy prone dogs.

My dog is currently eating cooked food. I had to cook up a whole chicken and bone it, cook up pork and chop those meats, cook up hamburger and rice and mix together along with a small amount of liver and add in a calcium source, some bits of this and that to balance the diet. Then I had to go back to the original amount of raw ingredients to figure out how many meals that would be and divide accordingly so I won’t over/under feed her pack up in 2 day packets and freeze. On raw I give her boneless red meat and every 2-4 days she gets a bit of raw bony meat plus organ along with the same supplements I have to give her with a cooked diet minus the calcium of course. She loves it all but sure has more enjoyment from the raw.

Never heard that dogs get snappy if taken off raw. Many dogs get possessive of raw bits so practicing trading is a great idea. Many people only find out their dogs can be possessive when some delicious raw bony thing is given, even rawhides, bully sticks don’t have the same value.

My lucky never ever had any parasites from raw feeding or fleas or ticks or contaminated water, Sassy once got a tapeworm from eating a flea. Raw meat from the store is very safe. I have always cooked raw meat and it is very easy to keep juices contained and the kitchen clean, lots of water and soap.

A great primer on raw feeding is here.
http://www.chanceslittlewebsite.com/prey-model-raw.html

[Corinne M]

Hi Jennifer,
I completely feel for you – it can be overwhelming trying to digest all the information out there when you just want to make your pup feel better! I had a Golden Retriever who had a bout of pancreatitis, and I learned a lot in the process – maybe some of it can help you.
First I had some concerns about Milo reading your post – and I want to address them without sounding preachy or condescending, so please understand that I am approaching this as if you have the level of knowledge that I had when it happened to my dog (very little knowledge). So forgive me if some of this is just plain simplistic and maybe obvious.
I never learned what caused the pancreatitis in my dog – there are theories, but the best experts I talked to said it could have been just plain old bad luck. What there seems to be agreement among the experts is that, once a dog has a single an episode of pancreatitis, everything changes – dietary needs, vaccine protocol, immune support, medication sensitivity, everything… FOR LIFE. That sucks, right? But it’s assumed that the pancreas is now more fragile or less efficient than it once was, and the goal becomes avoiding another bout of pancreatitis.
So you’re already working on the first step – which is diet; low protein, highly digestible, etc. etc. Essentially, a diet that doesn’t stress out his pancreas.
A compromised pancreas essentially means a problem in the digestive tract, which is why I wanted to respond to you. Digestive problems are often tied to things you are describing in Milo, like food sensitivity, itchy skin, loose bowels, yeast infections & immune deficiency. A healthy pancreas releases digestive enzymes into the digestive tract which then help to breakdown the good food you feed him so that his body can utilize all those wonderful nutrients. So the first step that you are already tackling, “what high quality food can I use?” is critical! Unfortunately, I don’t know – I feed homemade – but I trust that you will get some wisdom from this site & through your research will get that answer. But the NEXT steps are equally important, and here’s where I hope my experience can help you.
Part of the dietary changes you must make is supplementing with pancreatic enzymes. Ask your vet or do some research. I used a formula that was specifically recommended for my dog based on tests run by his endocrinologist – and my dog was a 90 pound, 14 year old Golden – so I can’t tell you what’s right for Milo. However, I can tell you that minimally, Dr. Pitcairn’s book says just pick up a human grade digestive enzyme from the vitamin store and give ½ capsule with each meal. That would be better than nothing.
Without proper food digestion, the best, highest quality diet won’t give Milo the nutrients he needs. So don’t skip this step.
Next, vaccine protocol. Dogs with compromised pancreas should follow a more “minimal” vaccine protocol. Ask your vet, or google Dr. Jean Dodd’s vaccine protocol to get additional information.
Immune support: here’s where I think Milo really would benefit from your research and discussions with your vet. The food symptoms you describe (itchy skin, loose stools, yeast imbalance, etc.) sound to me like two things going on: 1) problems in the gut – which will be dealt with thru diet & supplements; and 2) a weak immune system. The skin is a wonderful organ for telling us when our dogs’ immune systems are struggling. A dog with a healthy immune system will be pretty resilient when it comes to yeast & other skin flare ups. A balanced complete diet, fully digested with the help of enzymes may go a long way toward giving him relief – but you probably need to look into some immune support supplements to help him recover initially. Ask your vet, or look into having his immune system tested at http://www.hemopet.org the lab report will include a review by Dr. Dodds who can suggest a specific immune support protocol for Milo. I used Moducare (Thorne Labs) plus other specific herbs & vitamins.
Medication sensitivity: And here is where you are not going to like me…Prednisone is not something I would give to a dog 30 days after pancreatitis. I absolutely understand why it was prescribed (to make your itchy dog less miserable), and frankly, I don’t know of any substitute that will do the trick. The problem is, Prednisone is a corticosteroid and can actually trigger a bout of pancreatitis. It is absolutely not safe for Milo right now…sorry. Google it or ask your vet if this seems like questionable advise – but I can’t stress enough, NO PREDNISONE.
I hope you take this in the spirit offered – advice from a fellow pet owner who adores her pets. And hope Milo is on the mend soon!
Corinne

[magnoliasouth]

Hello all! My daughter works for a vet and can get Royal Canin at an enormous discount. She has her dog on Satiety right now and I have to admit that she’s doing very well on it, despite the ingredients it lists. But that’s not my question. lol!

My dog has severe skin allergies. To be honest, food changes haven’t affected it in the least. I’m thinking she’s actually allergic to grass. Still, the vet wanted my dog to go on the RC Anallergenic food and until now, she had been eating Wellness Ocean Formula.

The problems are the ingredients listed in the Anallergenic food.

Corn starch, hydrolyzed poultry by-products aggregate, coconut oil, soybean oil, natural flavors, potassium phosphate, powdered cellulose, calcium carbonate, sodium silico aluminate, chicory, L-tyrosine, fructooligosaccharides, fish oil, L-lysine, choline chloride, taurine, L-tryptophan, vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol (source of vitamin E), inositol, niacin, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), D-calcium pantothenate, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), riboflavin (vitamin B2), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin A acetate, folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], DL-methionine, marigold extract (Tagetes erecta L.), histidine, trace minerals (zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), rosemary extract, preserved with natural mixed tocopherols and citric acid.

How weird is it to have corn starch as the primary ingredient? What exactly is “hydrolyzed aggregate”? I thought corn and mystery “poultry” are allergens?

Now my daughter did ask about the hydrolyzation and was told that it has something to do with processing it to remove allergens. Not sure how true that is.

The thing is that I’m a human nurse. I know full well that just because a vet’s office sells a particular product, doesn’t mean it’s the best product. It’s all in what they get out of it. Sadly a lot of people don’t know this. I swear I think it should be illegal. It’s the same thing as lobbying, which I think also should be illegal. Decisions should be based on opinions, not money. Sorry, I accidentally launched into rant mode… and I digress.

I’ve asked my daughter to speak to the RC sales rep. In fact, this is specifically what I texted her:

Subject: Questions to as your RC sales rep. 1. Why do they use meat by-products? 2. Why aren’t meat products the primary ingredient in any of their foods? 3. Why is a corn product the primary ingredient in the Anallergenic food, when corn is a primary allergen? 4. What does “hydrolyzed poultry by-product aggregate” mean and define “poultry”? If “poultry” means chicken, why is that (also a primary allergen) in the Anallergenic food too? I have more, but we’ll stop there for now. Just tell her I’m not trying to grill, I’m trying to understand and give her a chance to explain it to me.

Perhaps someone here knows the answers already or can make suggestions or whatever.

[Corinne M]

I say maybe it is, maybe it’s not. More importantly, your vet says it is…or rather, your vet says your dog needs a specific diet right now to address the BUN/Creatinine results. Feeding a raw or homemade diet is the “best thing” for your dog only if it is supporting your dog’s wellness. Creating a nutritionally complete recipe plus providing the right supplements is tricky — especially when your trying to address kidney issues. There are many exceptional commercially prepared foods (look at 5 start rated reviewed foods here on this site) that might be better suited for your dog right now – could be raw, freeze-dried, canned or dry. The point is, it needs to specifically address the health problem. The other things I would look into & discuss with my vet would be:
– how did these test results compare to his prior bloodwork?
-did he fast before having the blood drawn?
-what did his other levels look like? Calcium? Phosphorus? Sodium:Potassium ratio?
– Is his BUN level in the “normal range for raw-fed dogs?
– was protein detected in the urine sample?
And I would ask my vet, “If I were to change his diet as you suggest, what do you expect we will see on the next test? How long do you think it will take to see a change?”
I feed raw. I’m an advocate of feeding raw. At the same time, I trust my vet and when he tells me there is an issue I tend to believe him.

[pugmomsandy]

I give one scoop of Mercola Bladder Support which has 75 mg of d-mannose and 75 mg of cranberry and other supplements. I’ve also given a 250 mg capsule of just d-mannose a couple times a week.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Fish oil is one product in which I don’t recommend trying to take the cheap way out. It’s important to only purchase high quality, human-grade supplements from reputable suppliers – avoid generic brands/store brands. Carlson’s and Nordic Naturals are two very good brands that I have used and would use again. You want to be sure your fish oil contains an antioxidant such as vitamin e or astaxanthin to help prevent oxidation. With the exception of the few companies that use airless pumps, I would avoid fish oil in pump dispensers (the pumps let it air and promote oxidation). Make sure to refrigerate the fish oil and dispose of any unused fish oil after 2-3 months (so in otherwise, avoid purchasing in bulk). I also testing the freshness every week or so, break a capsule open and smell it and squirt a little on your tongue to taste it. If it smells fishy and/or tastes extremely fishy (it will taste slightly fishy) it’s rancid – toss it! There’s also the option of mixing tinned sardines and/salmon into your dogs food for omega 3’s. This is what I usually do.

[Holly C]

I use Nature Made Fish Oil capsules. I give one capsule (I cut it open and put the oil on the food) in his morning meal with his supplement. Seems to help. Only problem is that it doesn’t taste fishy because it’s for people, so I’ll get generic ones next time. My dog loves fish flavoured anything.

It bothers me that it’s two/three times as expensive at petsmart for special doggy fish oil, and it’s no different. Plus, I prefer capsules to squirt bottles. The bottled ones tend to stink up the fridge after a while.

Should I give more than one capsule to my 55 lb dog? I think one is enough.

[Corinne M]

Hi Amy,
I’m sorry to hear about your pup’s troubles. You asked about things that can boost his immune system – here’s a link to an excellent article on the subject: http://www.victoriabenda.com/articles/jDodds/immune.shtml

You can have testing done to pinpoint immune issues; I had Dr. Dodds do my dog’s testing because I was referred to her by my vet. Based on the test results, my dog was taking
* Plant Sterols (Moducare, Thorne Labs)
*Turmeric/curcumin supplement (Merina)
*Vitamin E d-alpha tocopheral
*Vitamin C / Ester C
The daily amounts were specific to my dog & based on weight, so you would need to consult a vet for correct dosages for your dog. There is a list at the end of the article that includes other immune support supplements.
Good luck!
Corinne

[pugmomsandy]

You can give a supplement with dl-methionine like Wysong Biotic ph (-) or Swanson Pet High Alkaline Lawn Aid or similar product, and cranberry/d-mannose to help with the urine pH and urinary tract health.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 5 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[Corinne M]

Hi Ashlee,
I feel compelled to respond to your post because I also found this site when I got interested in dog nutrition after one of my dogs developed health issues…and to be honest, it hasn’t been an easy road. However, I can tell you that the journey has resulted in major improvements in all of my dogs’ health & wellness. And I’m committed to continuing the journey – but it’s daunting at times, expensive (but the costs are offset by reduced vet bills), and sometimes overwhelming. I made some mistakes along the way, mostly in trying to get the supplements right & balancing the calcium/phosphorus ratio in homemade/raw feeding – but fortunately, my dogs are healthy and thriving on a natural diet. So if my experience can help others to avoid some of the pitfalls along the way, that would be great.

So here’s my 2 cents based on what I read above: I would start with Cookie, since she has cancer & arthritis (and is over weight) I think she’s in greatest need. This may be “off subject”, but the first thing I would do is cease any vaccines completely. Her immune system is compromised by the cancer, so your vet should be able to give you a waiver if you need one in order to keep her “tags” current – if your local jurisdiction wont accept a vet’s waiver, you can pay for titer testing in lieu of vaccination. But to be honest, I don’t think you would/should have to go thru that expense ( I can elaborate if you need help getting around city requirements). Next I would get a consult with Dr. Jean Dodds at Hemolife http://www.hemopet.org/veterinary-diagnostic-laboratory.html
you can do this by phone or email if you are not located in southern California. Call her and explain Cookie’s situation & that you are looking to switch her diet. She can tell you what labwork would be appropriate to determine a course of action (especially testing Cookie’s immune system & inflammatory issues) you can print the lab order from her website & have your vet do the blood draw & have your vet send it to her for the testing. Ask her to call you with the results and her recommendations – she can tell you what supplements to use to assist with Cookie’s immune support & inflammation/ arthritis. I would ask Dr. Dodds about raw feeding for Cookie – if her immune system is an issue, you may want to buy a high quality prepared raw food like Bravo Balance http://www.bravorawdiet.com/product/balance/index.html and *lightly* cook it – just enough to be extra safe. Of course, getting Cookie’s weight down to optimum level will help with the arthritis – if you feed her the Bravo Balance at the amount appropriate to her *ideal* weight, her weight should normalize in a few months without her feeling deprived. Bravo’s website has a feeding calculator you can use to determine the amount to feed – just remember to plug in her ideal weight, not her actual weight. Here’s a link: http://www.bravorawdiet.com/product/feeding/howmuch.html
I only suggest a prepared raw diet because it takes a lot of the guesswork out of feeding a “nutritionally complete” raw diet – and it sounds like Cookie needs help ASAP. As for cost, assuming Cookie’s ideal weight was 60 pounds, you would feed 1.2 lbs of food per day and I think a 5 lb chub of their balanced brand is like $27 – so her food would be about $42 per week. When I make raw/homemade my cost is about $2 to $5 per pound, depending on my protein source (and not including cost of supplements). Expensive – but I’ve saved a TON on vet bills; my dogs never get skin issues or yeast infections anymore.

As for the other dogs and your journey to switch to raw, there are some great resources here on this site and suggestions for other resources – just read everything you can get your hands on and learn about the diet/wellness connection. If you find it challenging at first maybe switch first to a home made diet, then take the leap to raw when you are ready. At least with home cooked you have control over your ingredients & can deal with specific ailments (like Mia’s yeast infections) by eliminating foods that are common culprits for yeast imbalances.
Best of luck to you in your journey!
Corinne

[pugmomsandy]

This might help you a bit:

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2114&aid=400

When there is an infection, the bacteria release an enzyme and the pH of urine is changed to where crystals can start coming together into a stone. Crystals normally don’t form a stone in normal urine pH.

I also have dogs with crystals but no infection. I always give some canned food and some urinary health supplements.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 5 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[Corey K]

thank you for the feedback. I actually tried the raw diet, and the highest end foods with him prior to the issues and he will not touch them. He seems very picky and also will not eat canned food. I was just reading about the cranberry supplements and may give them a try. He eats IAMs large breed for ages 1-5 now because it’s the only thing he will consistently eat. I am confused about one thing I’m reading. I keep reading that the struvite crystals do not need treated unless there is an active infection. He does have an active infection and is on an antibiotic. My vet tested his urine a week after the begin of antibiotic and it was back to normal. I plan to keep him on the antibiotic for 4 weeks. Why does it say that the crystals are only dangerous if there is infection – is that simply because the infection needs treated? Or do the crystals behave differently or pose a different threat if accompanied by infection? So confusing!!!

[InkedMarie]

Corey: dry food is the worst thing you can feed a dog with crystals. Best is raw, dehydrated or canned. I had a dog with struvite crystals & he did not go on a script diet. If you must feed dry, please add some canned to it plus warm water to make a stew. It’s very important that you make sure he gets enough liquid & ample opportunity to urinate. Do you give a urinary supplement or cranberry? Ask your vet if vitamin C would help.

[Lisa M]

I just got my new 11 week old mini dachshund puppy. My 1 1/2 old mini Dachshund has been eating Natures Variety raw bites for over 6 months and we are happy with it. Is it okay to feed my new 3 pound 11 week old puppy these frozen raw bites (I thaw them in the fridge overnight first)? She absolutely loves them and is active and playful. If it’s okay, is there anything else she should have to supplement this? I give her the Natures Instinct puppy kibbles, but she almost never eats them.

[pugmomsandy]

You can warm the oil and drizzle it right in their food bowl or let them lick the glob right off the spoon. 1/2 – 1 teaspoon per 10 lbs. I give the smaller dose but I also feed raw sardines or use a krill oil supplement. I also use a coconut-based shampoo like Earthbath, although my dogs rarely get a bath.

[pugmomsandy]

You can give them a green superfood supplement also.

[pugmomsandy]

You can try switching to a fish-based food (that would hopefully have more omega-3 in it). You can also give a fish oil supplement, or feed sardines a couple times a week, and also give coconut oil.

[Anita L]

Yes yes yes (on the coupons)! love me some deals!

Pups are much better. Joe still does not like a bath so we went to PSP. I was just as soaked as he was and I was wearing one of their aprons! It was pretty funny! When I went to pay, I told the cashier, 2 dog baths and 1 human. She looked at how soaked I was and laughed with me.

Mostly now, their feet/legs bother them some (itching) but not nearly as bad as it was. We were out of town last week (much needed last minute vacation). Pretty sure they got their supplements and food but past that, who knows. They were loved on very much by my niece who stayed with them, so that’s the good part.

Now it’s time to perfect those foot baths/soaks. If I have a (big) bowl of vinegar solution ready, go outside and use a wash cloth to run it over (or drizzle…or pour), hopefully they won’t fuss too much. I’m gonna hope for the best.

Thanks for asking Bobby-dog. That’s why I love this site. Everyone cares and wants to help! Which is why I wanted to share that sale with my DFA friends 🙂

[Kim L]

Very long story short, my vet recently noticed a really slight heart murmur in my 17-pound Shih Tzu Lhasa mix. She suggested Krill oil (as opposed to standard fish oil) to help with his heart and his flaky skin.

I currently have him on Horizon Pulsar Fish Formula (very low glycemic as he has issues with yeast). However, as it is a fish formula, I would not want to give him too much fish oil. This is what Dog Food Advisor says about the fish oil already in the food: “The sixth ingredient is salmon oil. Salmon oil is naturally rich in the prized EPA and DHA type of omega-3 fatty acids. These two high quality fats boast the highest bio-availability to dogs and humans.” I have been looking into Dr. Mercola’s krill oil, and it says to give about one pump per 10 pounds. Does that seem excessive with fish-based food, or no?

This may be a silly question, but I just do not want to give him too much if the food already contains some, and also want to be sure that Krill oil is, in fact, better than an omega-3 fish oil supplement. Thanks!

[Susan]

Hi Ashlee, you have 3 beautiful dogs, sorry I cant help with the raw, but there’s heaps of people on this site that can, I just borrowed this book called “Dr Becker’s REAL FOOD For healthy Dogs & Cats” its a good read & Karen puts you in the right direction with foods, supplements, calcium & fatty acids, for young medium & older dogs..what to do & what not to do..

[RescueDaneMom]

Hi Kelly,

The only good food I know of for joint care is Victor GF Joint Health / Adult Canine Formula
with Glucosamine. Here is the website: http://www.victordogfood.com/

However, the amounts of glucosamine and chondroitin in dog food are usually not enough to be therapeutic. There is 750mg/kg of glucosamine and 250mg/kg of chondroitin in this food. I have a senior Great Dane (8 yrs old) that needs joint support. I am giving him glucosamine and chondroitin from Springtime Inc. I use their equine line because my dog is so large but they have a canine line as well. I would check out the Supplement forum and look for threads on joint health. I know there are a few of them. It would probably be most beneficial to get your dog on a high quality joint supplement in addition to a high quality food.

Best of luck!

[crazy4cats]

Hi Texasniteowl-
I have endured some frustrating digestive disorders with my dogs as well due to parasites and many doses of antibiotics and dewormers. I don’t know if they ended up with leaky guts, IBS, IBD, or what, but it was down right frustrating! I read every article I could find on the above conditions. Some of the best information, I found on dogaware.com.
The best results that I have had so far is when I feed them Victor grain free food with a few Northwest Naturals frozen raw nuggets. I also have tried several supplements that are helpful. I use probiotics and/or digestive enzymes that contain slippery elm, l-glutamine and NAG. The Victor contains a clay that helps with loose stools as well. Another kibble that has the clay is Nature’s Variety Prairie and Instinct. Interestingly, sauerkraut and shredded carrots are also helpful for some reason. LOL! I wish you a lot of luck!

[texasniteowl]

Short story: we’ve been on chicken and rice for a month and need to get back on a kibble.

You can skip to near the bottom about what kibble to go with or you can read…the long story.

Long story:

My dog Wilson is about 7 and 1/2. We have had him for about 19 months. He came to us on Purina lamb and rice. I first switched him to Fromm’s Duck and Sweet Potato and then later to Fromm’s grain free Salmon Tunalini. He also with every meal got a tbsp of yogurt, usually Fage Greek Plain but sometimes other brands. He was on the Salmon Tunalini for about 7 or 8 months.

In late April, he started eating a lot more grass than usual. Prior, he ate grass maybe once every 2 or 3 months. But he started going out in the a.m. (mostly a.m.) to eat grass about 4 times a week. But no other symptoms really presented. At first.

By mid to late May he was still grass eating but poo had started changing and not for the better. But we would have days were it was fine and then days where it was bad and then days when it was fine again. He still ate his food and still loved his walks, etc. But we also did have a few days where his interest in his food in the morning was not present. Then finally, after seeing some blood in his poo, we went to the vet.

Fecal test #1 was negative for parasites/giardia. Fecal test #2 showed a bacterial overgrowth of the bad, rod shaped bacteria. So vet put us on a 5 day course of amoxicillin, metronidazole, and pro-pectalin. We stayed on his kibble during this course. Finished the 5 days and on day 6, we had not only very liquid, essentially water, diarrhea, we also had vomiting. Called the vet…another 5 days of amox, metro, pro-pec. This time, went to chicken and rice.

The chicken and rice was meant to be short term!

After the 2nd 5 days, we kept on the chicken and rice and waited to see what would happen. It initially seemed like his poo started to improve. So I started mixing in a little kibble. Like less than 1/2 of 1/4 cup.

And things got worse again. So called the vet again.

The vet suggested that in spite of the parasite fecal being negative that we do a dose of panacur. And that if no improvement, our next step would be to take blood and fecal samples and send them to the vet school at Texas A&M to be evaluated. So we did the Panacur.

At first, didn’t see much improvement. But then about 4-5 days after his last dose his poo started to improve. Still on the soft side. And worryingly, a bit orange even though he wasn’t getting pumpkin. But firmer than we had seen in a while.

So, I went by a local boutique pet store who gave me a sample of Orijen Adult and I started mixing in some. Just a little.

And the poo got even better.

Nearly normal! Using the Purina fecal scoring model, we’re up to a 3 where 2 is ideal. We had been averaging a 4.5-5 at one point with some individual poos even worse!

So, I want to slowly increase the amount of kibble. And at some point, I plan to re-introduce probiotics (maybe powder instead of yogurt) and maybe add enzymes.

(I also bought the $3 book about supplementing kibble with fresh stuff…and would like to do that…eventually. First things first.)

Anyway, props to anyone who made it thru all that.

The main question:
Which kibble to go with for now?

A friend of mine who has a dog with severe IBD suggested that maybe a food intolerance started the whole cycle to start with, but I don’t know that I buy that. She suggested a novel protein. But, he’s been on chicken and rice, and the Orijen Adult is chicken based and his poo is improving right now. Is it possible he has a food intolerance of some kind? Sure. Allergies? Yes. In fact, he seems to have a grass allergy. Since I know he has had chicken and duck and lamb and fish, if we start looking at a novel protein, I’d be looking at pork or venison or rabbit. But I don’t know what else he might have had before we adopted him. And in terms of amount paw-licking, etc. I don’t think it is much different than any other time. He can get itchy ears too, but the vet attributes that to mostly seasonal allergies.

The qualm I have about the Orijen Adult is mainly due to the high fat content. 18%. We are mostly inactive. He is a lap dog most of the day except for our daily 1.1 to 1.2 mile walks. And a little bit of fetch with a tennis ball. But otherwise he loves nothing more than snuggling in my lap in the recliner. And he is 65lbs! And, as mentioned he is 7 and 1/2. Should I start watching the fat %? Though his weight last time we were at the vet was within 3 lbs of what they called ideal. So we are doing pretty good so far.

Then there is the matter of grain free vs. grain inclusive. In the best scenario, I prefer grain free. But I’m not sure I’m crazy about all of them going to lentils for fill. Though, the Orijen Adult has lentils and I have not seen a problem so far. But it has only been about 4-5 days and he is getting a limited amount.

I do like that the Orijen Adult is a higher protein level. His previous food was only 31% protein and the Orijen Adult is 42%. Maybe it was the fact that he has been on chicken and rice for a month that made the higher protein level an easier switch? It’s been proven now that a higher protein percent for senior dogs is OK, right?

Orijen Senior is similar to Adult except uses pea fiber also. The fat is 15% instead of 18%. And fiber is 8% instead of 5%.

Some other mostly chicken or at least poultry based foods I was considering are:
Taste of the Wild Wetlands
Wellness CORE Original
Wellness CORE Reduced Fat (37% protein, 11% fat)
Acana Adult Large Breed (37% protein, 14% fat)
Acana Light & Fit (39% protein, 10% fat)
Acana Senior (37% protein, 14% fat)
Earthborn Holistic Great Plains Feast
Merrick Grain Free Chicken & Sweet Potato

Anyway, I’m really at a loss here. Novel protein or not? Fat %? Protein %? Lentils? Other food suggestions?

[Kelsey K]

Also, any suggestions on supplements to start from the beginning? I know glucosamine/joint supplements are popular, as are Omega supplements. Any recommendations?

[DogFoodie]

And, I agree with Melissa. Raw might help also. Sometimes, higher carb foods contribute to the problem. If probably try a commercial raw that’s complete and balanced – not one that says it’s for supplemental feeding only.

[Richard M]

I have a Maltese cross breed. I clean his eyes daily with a topical pad which cleanes his eyes fine but has no real effect on the colouring.

I have had him on Orijen puppy and his coat is great, other than the tearing stains. He has gone off of Orijen and I know it is not a behavioural issue so thinking of switching to Pulsar.

Are there any other commercial foods that you would recommend to address the tearing stains? I won’t risk his health over cosmetic issues of course and am not too interested in any supplement that contains antibiotics.

[Debbie L]

I think I’d add a little more than just potatoes and peas. The apples and oatmeal sounds good. Perhaps some egg as well.

Many years ago my aging female Collie had a terrible time with fleas, as her immunity was down due to age. I started feeding Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover’s Soul and within about a month on that the fleas all but vanished. I looked at the ingredients, and unfortunately your dog may be allergic, but the oatmeal and another item listed were high in B vitamins and I believe that’s what helped to repel the fleas.

If you Google it there are many natural homemade dog food recipes on the net. You can supplement the dog’s diet with dog vitamins. To be safe I would if I were making my own dog food recipe.

Another suggestion would be to occasionally give the dog some probios paste, pronounced pro-bee-ose. Your farm and ranch store will know what it is. Very high in vitamins and minerals. Just takes a small bit at a time. Or sprinkle some powdered milk for baby animals on the food. Also at farm and ranch. High in vitamins, minerals and also calcium animals need.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 5 months ago by Debbie L.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 5 months ago by Debbie L.

[weezerweeks]

Should I get dasquin or Dasquin msm? Have used mercola and springtime. Love Mercola but their out of stock so I thought I’d rotate to another one. Thanks

[DogFoodie]

Katie, you’re doing a great job!

Commercial raw is expensive and can be out of reach for a lot of folks, myself included. Making homemade raw balanced, takes research and care and you’ve certainly demonstrated that you’re up for the challenge. In the meantime, you might want to check out Steve Brown’s great little download about supplementing a diet of kibble with fresh whole foods. The download costs $2.95 and is worth every penny! Here’s a link to the download: http://www.seespotlivelonger.com/home/sll/page_41/see_spot_live_longer_the_abc_way___electronic_down.html. Steve Brown’s book, Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet, is probably one of the books you have on order.

Answer’s goat milk is great. My dogs love it too. You just reminded me to get a carton out of the freezer. My dogs are always getting something different, too.

Congratulations on the new job!!

[DogFoodie]

Hi Travis,

I couldn’t tell if you had already looked for a local retailer of Victor products or not. I live in the Chicago area, but my friend is in Texas and when I was looking for a local retailer for her I was shocked to see there were lots of them. Lots. Not to pester you, but do check and see if you might have a retailer near you. Click on the tab in the black bar at the top of this page that says, “find a dealer.” http://victordogfood.com/

Also, something you could consider would be supplementing your dog’s diet with raw, meaty bones as an introduction to raw food. Something as simple as a turkey neck in place of a meal of kibble. And, if you keep the extras to no more than 20% of your dog’s diet, you don’t have to worry about throwing off the nutritional balance of the kibble. I don’t feed raw full-time because of my schedule and it worries me far less when I know I’m feeding it less than 20% of the time. Here are the forum search results for “raw, meaty bones” or RMB’s as they’re called: /forums/search/raw+meaty+bones/

[Mom2Cavs]

I also want to add Wellness’s new Small Breed Senior to the mix. It’s formulated to have a lower sodium percentage. I’m feeding it in our regimen. I’m also using other Wellness Small Breed formulas. I have 3 senior Cavalier King Charles Spaniels. All 3 have some level of murmur. My 2 girls are not getting any meds, just supplemented with coq10. My male (my newest addition) has MVD and gets enalipril twice a day.

[Paula D]

FWIW, I don’t think three meals a day until he’s about six months is too many meals, and when I had a foster puppy, she would eat more,overall, on three instead of two meals a day, so if you’re wanting him to eat more, the “lunch” meal might help.

Unsolicited .02: try adding just one new supplement or food at a time, give it a couple of weeks, before trying something new, in order to give pup’s tummy a chance to settle and to more easily identify if something is bothering him. Alas, this is from bad experience of me being over-anxious about my foster puppy with “issues” when my adult girls were pretty easy keepers.

Good luck!

.paula d

[weezerweeks]

I need to try another joint supplement for my yorkie. He has grade 1 luxating petalla. I have used Mercola and springtime. I like the Mercola the best but they are out of stock. I like to rotate so I thought I would try Dasquin but which one the Dasquin or the Dasquin msm? Does anyone have any other suggestions. His legs aren’t bad now but sometimes he limps a little. Thanks

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Latis2270 –

Earthborn Coastal Catch has about 15% more calories than Wellness LBP so if his weight is good now I’d feed him about 15% less than what you’re currently feeding and adjust from there.

When the list was created Earthborn was rated 5 stars, the rating has dropped to 4.5 stars. I’m holding off on making any updates to the list because there are going to be some changes in the near future.

As far as I know, nothing has changed with the calcium levels.

For the soft stools you may want to try supplementing his diet with probiotics.

[DogFoodie]

Unfortunately, my dog with food intolerance issues reacted to Springtime’s Big Off Garlic or if be using that. I tried it and both of my ate it right up just thrown into their food. I used the granules. It’s know to help deter fleas, flies, mosquitoes, etc. Here’s a link to the product: http://www.springtimeinc.com/product/bug-off-garlic-dogs/All-Natural-Dog-Supplements

I had planned to use BOG with Mercola Natural Flea and Tick Defense: http://products.mercola.com/healthypets/natural-flea-and-tick-control/

Unfortunately, since BOG didn’t work for us, I resorted to more toxic methods and ended up with Sentinel, which does nothing to deter mosquitoes. I also have the Halo Herbal Dip that Sandy recommended to me last summer. Her little cutie s wear a few drops on a bandana.

[pugmomsandy]

I’ve been using Halo Herbal Dip (can be made into a spray) for the past two years and either feed Bug Off Garlic or Flea Free Supplement. There are also natural products out there with rose geranium it (like Sentry Natural Defense) or you can purchase rose geranium essential oil.

[InkedMarie]

Terri,
I’ve never heard not to feed fowl. I feed duck, turkey & chicken. If you’re looking to feed pre made raw, Primal has a bunch of proteins. I feed ground raw: lamb, goat, beef, turkey, duck, beef and that’s just what’s in my freezer. There are many others: bison, emu, rabbit, etc.
I disagree with Judy about the probiotics. Human grade is much better, human supplements are regulated, pets are not. Judy, I want to point out & I may be wrong but I believe if you are a veterinary professional & posting here, you are supposed to post under your real name.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Zach,

Sardines are awesome!

If you haven’t already checked out Steve Brown’s e-book, you should! The download costs $2.95 and is worth every penny. He explains how to add fresh whole foods, including sardines, to supplement and improve your dog’s diet. He refers to it as the ABC method. http://www.seespotlivelonger.com/home/sll/page_41/see_spot_live_longer_the_abc_way___electronic_down.html

Edit: I don’t use fish oil because I have a fish intolerant dog who can’t even have fish oil even though it should be OK because the protein has been removed. If I did use fish oil, I’d try Springtime Natural’s product. I’ve used Mercola krill and it didn’t seem to bother him. I have used Udo’s Choice DHA Blend, a vegeterian product for him.

[RescueDaneMom]

Hi Katie,

You may also want to check out reelrawdog.com. I recently discovered this company through InkedMarie (I think, correct me if I’m wrong). They have good deals on free shipping based on where you’re located and how much you buy. I would have to buy 50lbs for free shipping because I live in FL. They also have good prices on bulk ground products. They are already in the correct ratio of 80:10:10. Then you just add some veggies and supplements and you’re all set. That could get you started while you figure out the rest.

[Regina D]

Are these limited ingredient foods, like NB & Wellness, complete foods? Or do I need to add supplements if fed long-term?

[Katie J]

I’ll definitely pick up that book you’re suggesting this weekend. We’re planning a puppy outing at our local town center that has several pet friendly stores.

My little guys are pretty active. When they aren’t napping, it’s full on puppy mode for both of them! Plus we make trips about 5 times a week to where I board my horses, and spend several hours playing and exploring. I figure once the pup is full grown, we’ll be going through about a pound a day between the two of them. But I have no idea how big the pup will get. I could be underestimating. The co-op I plan to purchase from estimates about $1.50 a day to feed a 40 lb dog, and I think we will be under that weight between the two of them. I can get behind that! I am a little overwhelmed with their offerings as a lot of it is large portions. I’m not sure how to feed it all. I guess those books would answer that for me!

Next I want to look into supplements for their raw diet. I gather that they can have human multivitamins. The only draw back is that I have to make sure it’s safe for dogs and the mix may not be optimal, right? I know that Hound Dog Mom buys things separately. But I’ll admit her list of supplements confuses me quickly!

[Katie J]

Thanks guys! I was wanting to introduce all of the potential raw ingredients through his puppyhood before making the leap. I keep reading that making the switch to raw is a lot easier than it seems. But boy, it sure looks awfully complicated going through this thread!

In reference to SSLL, am I missing the serving size guide on the website? My iPad doesn’t zoom the bag picture correctly. I see that it’s highly recommended, but I want to see what it’ll actually cost me to feed.

$90 for a grinder is very reasonable. I hadn’t started looking yet, but I was thinking that would be quite the investment. I could supplement with grinds from another source and grind chicken in house. I am just looking to be as inexpensive as possible. I may not be factoring everything right, but it sounds like feeding raw could be cheaper than the kibble I have been experimenting with. We haven’t settled on a kibble that the pup loves. And my terrier has been taking a liking to wet food over his kibble.

I have a sample of Steve Brown’s book saved. I have been debating on purchasing as I wasn’t sure if I was ready for it yet. The other book sounds promising.

Maybe I’ll get some things from the co-op to try. Also I think I saw someone say that they buy from the grocery store. I work at an Aldi. Not sure if anyone is familiar with the store. We don’t have a butcher but have a decent selection of pork, beef and chicken prepackaged. Is that safe for dogs?

[pugmomsandy]

Katie J,

“Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” has a recipe modified for pups. It also includes a recipe for a vitamin/mineral supplement.