I would react just like I did when my 2 got Pancreatitis and bad bacteria when on Darwin’s I immediately get them to the Vet. The food Company would not help after your pet gets sick….Honestly they do not care and feel like you are just blamming them and or their food so they blow you off. I can almost instantly read it in their voice. Yes I agree Customer service is important but it is certainly not there anymore these days from my experience. I am still trying to find the perfect Raw for my dogs that doesn’t cost an arm and a leg to ship. I can get Vital Essentials and Primal and Natures Instinct but my problem with the Primal and Natures Instinct is the veggies and fruits they put in them. My dogs are doing good on the Rabbit from Hare Today and My Pet Carnivore but the $45 shipping is killing me. What if I feed Raw low fat meats just from the grocery and add in Steve’s mix? I just don’t want to do all kibble since I have not seen a huge improvement on it. It seems like I am fighting a never ending battle with my dogs are their diet these days. I am beginning to think it has nothing to do with food but the way man has bred dogs for the last years, The DNA code has been terribly messed up. I know dogs to this day that are fed Pedigree and thrive and have no health issues…I won’t feed cheap/grain food to my dogs and try to feed the best I can but it seriously back fires on me. I am to the point of buying my own meat and cooking the snot out of it and adding in supplements and maybe then I won’t have problems. Sorry just venting. I honestly do not know which way to turn in the food direction.
I sort of disagree with NectarMom. Yes, customer service does suck in ALOT of instances but I personally could not feed a food if I emailed more than once and got no answer and especially if the person answering the phone couldn’t direct me to someone who knew the answer. One raw food here got very good ratings but there is a warning in red lettering from dr mike, saying how bad the customer service is.
What would happen if your dogs got really sick and you got no answers? Would it matter how good the food was? For me, customer service is very important.
Hi everyone! Most of you know that I was feeding shadow a raw diet. After having a bout of pancreatitis, I have switched back to a high quality kibble because I got so freaked out. I don’t plan on going back to raw, but I am very interested in making a home cooked diet for him. I plan on this diet being grain free as well. I need some information about what supplements he would need. Especially calcium since he will not be consuming cooked bones. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks!
I had sent a previous suggestion to this website but I think it is worthy of discussion here in this forum. In order to help make informed decisions on which brand rates stars (note Natura and Innova have 5 star rating), it may be a more trust worthy site to include in the description of the product the number of recalls this product has had.
I did not have a problem with this brand of dog food, though I feed primarily raw and cooked food – what I buy for myself, I feed to my dogs, before the acquisition by P&G in 2010. I don’t think it makes any difference whether this product is sold in a “big box store” (unless this store makes their own brand), I think it has to do with profits and shareholders, not consumers. The best run businesses put the consumer first, and the shareholders last. Let P&G know how you feel about this loss of trust.
I have krill capsules and a bottle of Nature’s Logic sardine oil. I also have Udo’s oil. I’ll use both at the same time sometimes. Haven’t used the coconut in a while since it is just not as convenient!
HDM,
Shoot. He’s only 12 weeks old. I couldn’t find the calcium ratio on the Victor, but saw it was 5 star and had many of the things you have discussed. Well I only bought a small bag. Back to the drawing board. I would like a really good dog food around the 50.00 dollar range for the 26lb bag. I don;t mind ordering if I have to. Is there anything you would suggest for his age and size. I have looked at so many foods I’m going crazy. Some of the foods I have seen people discussing are up to 63-70 dollars for the big bag.
I use fish, salmon, or krill oil every day, and I use coconut about every other day, when I’m feeding a lower fat meat.
It is true that yeast has a particular odor and seborrhea has a different one. Seborrhea has kind of a musty, moldy, rancid fat smell to it. I have to actually get near a yeasty dog to smell it. I can smell seborrhea from across a crowded room.
Good Morning Sully’s Mom –
No, I’m not a vet – but I’m back in school working towards it so hopefully in a few years!
Dr. Mike has an article about the arsenic issue with rice: dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-news/arsenic-discovered-in-rice/ . Feel free to start your own thread if you would like to get others’ opinions. I really haven’t researched the issue too much as I don’t eat much rice myself and my dogs rarely get rice (or any grains) aside from germinated rice a few times a month.
I’m a big Nature’s Variety Instinct fan. When I used to feed kibble to my oldest dog it was frequently in rotation. I’ve used Nutrisca as well and feel it’s a good food. My dogs eat raw as their main diet (as mentioned) however I do frequently order samples and trial-sized bags of kibble. Even though I don’t feed kibble for meals I like to keep in the know about the best brands so I can make good recommendations. For my dogs, they usually get kibble in a kong for an after dinner treat (I layer kibble and canned pumpkin and pop it in the freezer). Naturalk9supplies.com and k9cuisine.com usually offer a wide variety of free samples and sell small trial-sized bags. Also, most companies will send you samples if you call or email them and ask.
It’s possible that Dr. Tim could be recommending Pursuit over the Grain-Free Kinesis due to calcium levels. The calcium levels in the Grain-Free Kinesis formula are a bit high for a large breed puppy. Honestly, if you’re rotating through a variety of foods that do and do not contain rice I wouldn’t be overly concerned about the arsenic. I just wouldn’t feed a food with rice long term. I also feel Dr. Tim’s is a very trustworthy company so if they’re saying that their rice tests negative for high levels of arsenic I would tend to believe them (although I would still rotate brands).
Hi again, thanks for all the help! Do you use both coconut oil and fish oil or alternate the 2? Do you use krill oil? I had read and watched a video of Dr Becker educating about krill oil.
If your dog does have any fleas…that is enough to make them scratch like crazy. You do need to get the fleas under control. Just a few weeks ago, my niece was worried about her dog scratching and chewing like mad and I asked her “well does she have fleas?” “OH NO!” she says. She took her to the vet and the vet showed her that not only did she have fleas, she was crawling with them! OK so I have no idea how someone cannot see fleas on a small little dog but…Oh well…You can research some flea treatments at home but always be careful to research any “holistic” treatment for possible toxicity problems with dogs! There are a lot of people on line telling us they use this and that but be careful because dogs are sensitive to some of these things! Something simple you can use is bathe them well with some flea shampoo designed for dogs and you can sprinkle your carpet with boric acid…sweep in into the carpet and leave it for a while then vacuum it back up after a few days I think. Be sure and research how long to leave it because it’s been ages since I’ve done this. This is boric acid, not borax! You can find it at the dollar store sold for roach treatment. You will probably need a few bottles. This is safe and absolutely works like a charm! Do not put it on the dog!!!!!
Hope you’re not tired of these questions, but I’m enjoying “talking” with you about dog food. The mention of samples intrigued me: PetFlow often offers “trials” at great prices. I never considered them before because I never considered rotating foods before, but they are currently offering trial sizes of both Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Boost Grain Free and/or Nutrisca Chicken and Chickpea. Are you familiar with either/both? I noticed DFA has them both at 5 stars.
Secondly, if you were getting small sample sizes as above (this is for you too Saireah since you’re the one who mentioned samples!), how would you fit them into your feeding?
Thanks for your input. I know a lot of people say yeast smells like corn chips. I looked into the flea dermatitis online and I’m thinking it could be that more so than yeast now. Especially since my American Bulldog is showing the same signs and he has never (knock on wood) had allergies to any food, even when I ignorantly fed them Purina. I didn’t put them on any flea medications because I couldn’t afford what I used to use (Trifexis) and I guess maybe the fleas were left to bother them too long and it caused a reaction. They never had fleas until primarily outside dogs came to live at my house for a few months and I think they got fleas from them. I’m just afraid if I go to the vet she will want to put at least my Saint on some kind of medication, plus having to pay a fee just to have them looked at. I know that sounds horrible, but any chance I can avoid a trip to the vet I will do it lol. I figured that by at least supplementing their kibble with raw will be enough to clear up the issues they have.
After having been through all the self diagnosis and then taking my dog to the vet to get correct diagnosis…please don’t just assume it’s yeast because I thought my dog was yeasty and the vet told me “OH no…yeast smells a certain way and I don’t smell any yeast on her”…but to me I thought it was yeast I was smelling. They also get stinky from skin irritation which could just be from a food allergy which is what my dog has, most likely the chicken but I’m in the process of figuring that out. Anyway…my point is to take your dog to the vet and see if it really is yeast. I can’t remember what it’s called but their skin produces a secretion that stinks when they have irritated skin from allergies.
Thanks everyone for the input! Very helpful!
Saireah – I actually haven’t fed kibble (as a meal) in nearly three years. However, when I did feed kibble I switched to a new brand with a new protein source at the end of every bag and I rotated canned and fresh food toppers daily. Once your dog gets used to switching foods you shouldn’t need to transition gradually, you can just do it cold turkey.
Sully’s Mom – Yes – high levels of protein (preferably animal-based protein) is a very good things as dogs have a strong carnivorous bias and are designed to eat a primarily meat-based diet. When I fed kibble I never fed foods with less than 30% protein. My dogs now eat a raw diet with protein levels ranging between 45% and 55% at each meal.
I’m definitely going to try rotating brands — it’s intriguing to me. 🙂 Do you personally transition between rotations? I know that you feed raw sometimes, but when you’re doing kibble — do you ever switch over cold turkey? My apologies if you’ve acknowledged this question in this thread before. Dr. Tim mentioned 50/50 for three days and then you’re free to swap over.
Somebody’s me: one of mine can’t have chicken as the protein, whether kibble or raw but he does fine on Brothers Complete allergy, which has chicken fat & something else. Sometimes, you don’t know but have to try
Chicken feet is a staple at ethnic grocery stores. They usually have pig feet too. Getting a human supplement might be cheaper per dose for joint supplements. You can also buy bulk green lipped mussel. I get Jarrow True CMO from swansonvitamins(dot)com and also use Actiflex 4000. I get the horse version because I don’t like the beef flavor in the dog version and give a very small amount. This is from folks in my local raw feeding group:
Under 25 pounds:
½ tsp. daily loading dose for 5 days
¼ tsp. daily maintenance dose
>
25-50 pounds
1 tsp. daily loading dose for 5 days
½ tsp. daily maintenance dose
>
50-75 pounds:
1 ½ tsp. daily loading dose for 5 days
¾ tsp. daily maintenance dose
>
100 pounds
2 tsp. daily loading dose for 5 days
1 tsp. daily maintenance dose
I feed Raw in the morning and kibble in the evening and my dogs do fine that way. If your dog is yeasty then he would need to stay away from what Marie stated above but also any veggies and fruits in a kibble that may contain sugar, Sugar feeds yeast and even in very very small amounts if it is in the kibble you are using then that is why your dog is yeasty and not because of fleas even though he could also be allergic to fleas and then he could have flea dermatitis.
I have looked on their website and everywhere else and I cannot seem to find a fat content for the Turkey and Rabbit. My Mom has been feeding her yorkiesthe beef and now wants to try other proteins but I have looked and I cannot find any info on any of their Raw except for the chicken, beef and Fish. Does anyone know where this info is? I called the Company and the girl on the phone told me she did not know and for me to email the Company, well in the past I have emailed them a few times and never got an answer.
-
This topic was modified 12 years, 6 months ago by
NectarMom.
I’m using Koshihikari Sprouted GABA rice (available on Amazon). Quinoa would be a great substitute as well. When I feed Quinoa I use TruRoots sprouted Quinoa (also available on Amazon I believe).
It’s fine to feed one meal of raw and one of kibble. I want to comment on kibble. If you go to the dog food ingredients forum here, you can see a stickie I made with a list of grain & white potato free foods. Yeasty dogs do best with no grain & white potato.
I feed a variety. For kibble I feed all of Brothers Complete’s flavors except the chicken(but so you know they have chicken liver in them, mine doesn’t have a problem with chicken liver), Any Nature’s Variety Instinct that doesn’t have chicken, Earthborn Great Plains Feast and Coastal Catch, and when they get the new Orijen here I’ll give the chickenless ones of them a try too. Mine does fine on duck and turkey, it’s just chicken meat that he can’t handle.
I use any of the 95% or 96% canned food from Merrick and I can’t think of the other one now, that aren’t chicken. I don’t use them much anymore because I’m using raw instead.
For raw, I use Darwin’s. I also order from Hare Today and My Pet Carnivore and I make my own raw food. We just had a goat butchered, so I’m feeding a good bit of that right now, until I have room to move stuff around in the freezer.
Where do get germinated brown rice? Or can you use quinoa instead?
Healthy Chicken & Rice
-20 oz Chicken Gizzards
-20 oz. Chicken Hearts
-8 oz. Organic Chicken Livers
-3 Cage-Free High Omega 3 Eggs
-1 C. Germinated Brown Rice (Yields approx. 2 1/2 C. Cooked)
-1 C. Whole Milk Plain Organic Yogurt
-10 oz. Package Frozen Organic Spinach, Pureed
-1 C. Organic Blueberries, Pureed
-1/2 C. See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix
-2 tbs. Bee Pollen Granules
-2 tbs. Organic Extra Virgin Coconut Oil
-1 tbs. Apple Cider Vinegar with Mother
Yields 3 Servings – Approx. 1,150 kcal. per Serving
(can be separated into smaller servings for smaller or less active dogs)
http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a501/hagelult/IMG_2158_zpsfbc8beb5.jpg
Hi EHubbman –
Yes the calcium to phosphorus ratio is very important for all dogs and should be no less than 1:1 and no more than 2:1, with around 1.2:1 being considered ideal. However when it comes to large and giant breed puppies, the overall amount of calcium consumed is still very important. Even if a food had an appropriate ratio but the calcium levels were very high – say 2.2% calcium and 2% phosphorus (1.1:1) – I wouldn’t feel comfortable feeding the food to a large or giant breed puppy. All three of my dogs eat a raw diet and my most recent pup (now 11 months old) was weaned onto raw at 8 weeks old. To keep the calcium levels controlled while still keeping the calcium to phosphorus ratio balanced, fed her green tripe for around 25% of her diet. Green tripe has a naturally balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio (roughly 1:1) but has very low levels of each mineral (only about 0.3%).
Here is my story: I currently feed ACANA and I rotate between the different varieties and all 3 of my dogs have done wonderfully on it. But after a rare bout with fleas my Saint Bernard has terrible yeasty skin with a horrid smell and my American Bulldog is starting to show signs of what I believe to be yeast issues, too. I have no idea if the fleas caused this or if it is just a coincidence, but I want to fix it soon. From my research I know raw is the way to go for the issues my dogs are facing and just plain better for them period. I am a full time college student with one more year of school, so feeding a homemade raw diet is not possible right now, but that is my goal one day. Anyway, I was thinking of feeding 50/50 raw and kibble. I wanted to feed Tucker’s Frozen Raw in the a.m. and kibble in the p.m.. I will probably switch my dogs to Orijen kibble because I know that white potato and sweet potato will feed yeast and Orijen does not contain those ingredients while ACANA does. I also will be feeding raw meaty bones once in a while. If I feed the 50/50 split will it still be beneficial to add a supplement like Nupro Silver? The people who owned my Saint before I got her did not feed her correctly as a growing pup (39 pounds underweight when I got her at 2 years old and was fed Iams), so since she has hip issues supplementing with glucosamine is something I really want to do and I figured the other natural ingredients in Nupro Silver wouldn’t hurt. If there are other supplements out there that are better please let me know. Just from my research the Nupro will be cheaper for me to give than the NuVet supplements I am giving currently. I also know that feeding duck feet is a natural source of glucosamine and I will be giving her some of those every now and then. I am just wondering if this plan sounds like a good idea or if it is stupid. I really don’t know a whole lot about raw, but I want to learn more. Any input would be greatly appreciated!
Oh, the ethnic grocery stores have skinless necks also.
What are your thoughts RE Phosphorus x Calcium Levels (as phosphorous is used in Calcium absorption, right?)?
I was looking into foods for my Presa (spanish mastiff, essentially), and a good friend (some vet training, very into the raw diet) noted that while protein isn’t so much of a concern aside from the fact that too much might cause loose stools, said that the Cal/Phos Ratio is what was really important. From my lookings, it seems like 1:1.2-1.4 Cal/Phos is what people aim for in larger breeds.
Your thoughts?
Several folks “bump up” their dry foods with fresh toppers like meat or fish or eggs and a few veggies. I feed Sojo’s Complete dog right now but just bought the cat version that has 30% protein. I still add a high protein topper whether it’s canned meat or fresh meat or egg or high protein kibble like Epigen. I make my own homemade raw food so I add in a spoon or two of that as well.
I’ve bought skinless turkey necks from Primal and I buy bulk duck necks from a local retailer by me. The grocery store has skinless necks too. I’ve seen them at Walmart and the health food store.
No, but it could speak to the dog’s stress level. I don’t mean stress in a bad way so maybe I should say excitement instead. Gut motility is affected by how “on” a dog is, so when he is out on a fun or exciting walk then everything could be passing through his large intestine faster than it can draw the fluids out. Adding a little fiber to his diet may slow down transit and even everything out, but it might not. I would try sprinkling 1/2 teaspoon of plain metamucil or a generic equivalent on his food and see if that does the trick.
So I rescued a dog 2 months ago. He, Zeus, is about 38-40 lbs and about 1 year old and DNA says mutt (1/4 Amstaff, 1/8 boxer, 1/8 bulldog, 1/8 keeshound, 3/8 mutt). Zeus was a stray and came in the shelter at 18 lbs and gained about 10 lbs in the 2 weeks he was there. When we rescued him he was being fed Science Diet and we continued for a bag and did 1 small bag of Rachael Ray Nutrish 6. He checked out as being healthy, no shedding or itching at all but some dandruff. There was a vet visit where he had dropped a few lbs so vet told us to double food but when I switched to 100% Wellness Super5Mix for puppy it was clear I had to cut back (soft poops and farting). Now I am finishing Wellness and I just bought a bag of Blue Buffalo Adult fish and sweet potato. We have had Zeus for about 2 months and now he is scratching and shedding like crazy but no dandruff. So how can I tell if the food is causing the scratching and shedding or whether it is environmental? Unfortunately, I can’t place the exact timeline of when the shedding started and dog food changes were. We were feeding too much for several weeks I would say so could that cause these problems? It seems that as I’ve improved the quality of the food, his shedding and itching have worsened. Also, how concerned do I need to be to transition dog foods as it seems to be what is recommended? I had read that quite a few dogs have difficulties with chicken? Is that really a concern because it is the easiest protein to find. I have to say that I am not interested in raw food but would consider a canned and dry combo. I would love any advice/suggestions you have.
Some people have reported that here too.
I have a question similar in nature about 3 star dehydrated vs 5 star dry. I am currently feeding Sojos Grain Free Fruit and Vegetable Mix to my two youngest dogs. Currently there is no review for that Sojos product, but there is one for the Complete Formula, which I actually do rotate in. The way the review reads, the food is great and has great ingredients, the only problem noted is that it is under the ideal amount of protein. I am actually using the Sojos, but instead of adding the 1/4 cup of meat indicated on the package, I am actually adding in just shy of the amount of raw meat that I would be if I was feeding them only raw (3% of their body weight…they are very active). To me, this is a great way to bump up the Sojos as a 3 star food, closer to what would be considered a 5 star in my mind. Has anyone else considered this?
I have used coconut oil in the past and loved it but haven’t picked some up in awhile but do sprinkle some of the coconut chips in her food sometimes and also add yogurt. The freeze-dried raw I give her does have it. Where do u purchase the skinless meaty bones from? I was thinking of starting her off slowly anyway with the smaller marrow bone. I don’t mind adding more fat to her diet, she’s lean and muscular and has lost a few lbs from our nice long evening walks, so she could use it. A rewarding treat. 🙂
SanDnMila,
The necks I buy are skinless and my small dogs did not have any problems with them from the start. Neither did they with marrow bones. I normally don’t feed them low fat foods so they are used to eating normal fat and canned food seems to have more fat too. Mine started eating raw with commercial products so it was even higher in fat than the kibble. Then I introduced RMB after about a year of commercial frozen patties. I would start out with small marrow bones though maybe 1 – 2 inches versus the 4 inch ones to start but I don’t think skinless necks would hurt. Are you already adding some fat to her diet with oils like fish or coconut?
Here’s the thread with pictures:
/forums/topic/pictures-of-dogs-eating-raw-raw-meals/page/3/#post-19529
http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/ducky1_zps2c6ec569.jpg
On another forum, some people have said their dogs aren’t doing as well on Fromm as they used to.
Great videos of Gertie!! 🙂 I’m thinking of beginning Mila on raw meaty/ recreational bones and I’m excited to see the health benefits they will give her. I have read and seen videos on the Primal website regarding the feeding of these bones but would like to ask more info if I could. Recreational bones are to fed 1-2 a week, how often should meaty bones be fed? How long should they be stored in the freezer, especially after the bag has been opened? I know Mila can eat the turkey necks or chicken backs that medium-large size dogs can eat but should I start her off on the chicken necks? Because she’s not used to having fatty food, will the fat have a negative effect on her stomach or is it good fat and won’t interfere? Do you feed the Primal bones or should I look at other companies as well? Which do you suggest? Thanks so much, I look forward to your reply! (:
I agree with Patty. Dry, hard kibble is hard to digest and can take several hours.
The only thing I can suggest is adding digestive enzymes with the kibble portion of her diet. The process for making kibble destroys enzymes and a lot of shepherds don’t make enough in the first place.
Hi, I have a 5.5m Shiloh. This may just be a coincidence . . . my puppy was switched from TOTW to Fromm’s and was on 100% Fromm’s for a month when I started feeding her 1 meal of raw 4 times a week.
Seemingly no problem with the raw – she loves it. But since then, she has been vomiting up her kibble. The first two times it was 2 hours after eating – and I figured she wasn’t feeling well, teething or too much excitement that day.
But it has since progressed to vomiting right after eating the kibble — and then if I give her raw for that meal, she is fine.
It is almost as if, once having raw, her body/stomach is rejecting the kibble. Is that possible? I’m also going to try a different kibble – I was thinking perhaps it is the grain in Fromm’s?
I would prefer to keep her on a partial kibble diet b/c of cost, convenience and most importantly b/c sometimes she needs to be boarded and it is difficult to find a kennel that is willing to handle a raw diet.
Any suggestions? Thanks
Thanks pugmomsandy!
I thought that would be the answer… 🙁
It does seem like they mark! So weird. Maybe I could make him not poop if I start a little jogging when I see he wants to go… But then again I can’t run more than a minute or so haha.
Sadly feeding raw, while seems to be the best option, is not possible for me (time & money). As to the freeze dried, we do have Orijen dog food here, but I don’t think the freeze dried arrived yet. Even so, I can only imagine it would be very pricey… Acana is also expensive here, I guess it costs more than in the US because of the long shipping. As to Vital Essentials, we don’t have it my country…
However, if you say that when feeding raw their poop are always firm, then maybe I do have a chance to find some other food that will have that effect on him. It’s a long shot, I know, but I just REALLY want to find a solution so I could be spontaneous and take him out whenever I want…
One thing I don’t understand, is this- if we know that soft stool means the food is not digesting well, does this mean that if I take him out often I damage the digesting of the food? Plus I always thought quality food meaning they eat less= have less poop, so how come he can still poop so often?? I would expect he won’t be able to, even if he wants to! 🙂
Thanks
Haha yeah, it is kinda gross..
I just showed Steve. His response? “Ewww” lol
