[Shihtzumom20]

Hi Hound Dog Mom,
I see what you mean about the Greens supplement now, I will just use a regular human multi vitamin. So here is my “meal plan” so lets see how close to right I get it, Lol!
am- Ziwipeak Daily Dog air dried cuisine-Lamb

pm- (I would make up a batch of a pound then divide it into his appropriate meal size)
– 1Ib boneless lean ground meat (chicken, beef, or pork) could I also use chunks for his size?
– 1/4 Ib vegetables, cooked and pureed… perhaps I could use organic baby food? To see if he will even eat any “slop” veggies?
– daily 1/4 tab multi-vit without calcium
-800mg calcium
– krill oil or another fish oil or sardines whatever I feel like that day lol.
– Swansons Glandular supplement, 3x a week or daily?
-Swansons Fruit concentrate, daily? or 3x a week?
How is that looking? Then I may need to add in the fiber, he does already get 1 tablespoon or so plain natural yogurt with his evening meal as his BM’s were fairly mushy on the Grandma Lucy’s Artisan. Speaking of that I guess I will use my leftovers as a kong stuffer or a quick meal… maybe give it a couple times a week in the am instead of his ziwi till its gone. He likes it well enough and I feel ok about it, but I would like it more if it didnt show up in his poop so much looking the same way it went in! Oh and maybe add some garlic into his meal… Does anyone know where I can get the Bugs Off Garlic in Canada? I looked on the website but it wouldnt ship to Canada at least when I last checked.
I completely agree, you are so patient with is newbies Hound Dog Mom, all your advice and time is greatly appreciated!

[jange123]

Hi,

New to the forum… Thank you in advance for your input.

I will be getting my GSP puppy in a few weeks and have been looking extensively into the food I will be feeding him. As you all know there are hundreds of makes out there. I am going with a dry kibble and from time to time will reward him with some fresh raw meat. My goal here is to get your opinion on what dry food to choose.

I have read into this site quite a bit and see how a ”meal” based food is favored over a “meat”. However I have read the opposite on other sites. The explanation on this site seems to add up but figured I’d check with you. The pet stores around where I live carry mostly 1-3 star foods and a handful of 4-5 stars. I’m not too concerned about price but also know paying a lot doesn’t necessarily guarantee a good and balanced food.

For a pup that will be very active, does any one have experience with a GSP or suggestions?

Thanks again.

Jeff

[Hound Dog Mom]

No problem, I love helping people start raw 🙂

BTW – I just wanted to add (in case I didn’t clarify before) if you’re adding a multivitamin/mineral to meals you don’t need to worry about things like vitamin D, manganese, vitamin E, etc. There should be adequate amounts of all the necessary nutrients in the vitamin. I balance my meals using whole foods only so it’s necessary for me to add ingredients such as these.

[theBCnut]

Most of the things I’ve read said 2 weeks, some have said even shorter if it is a deep freeze.

[theBCnut]

Just so you are aware, a lot of places say their grind is whole animal, but when you go to read the fine print, you’ll find out that they really aren’t. A lot of the time whole animal means it has the right amount of bone, muscle meat, and fat, with liver, kidney, and tripe. This is nice, but it isn’t whole animal. The only true whole animal I’ve found was at Hare Today. They have Whole Carcass Grinds. These have everything except intestines, and in some cases might have those too.

[Cyndi]

Oh ok, thanks guys! 🙂 & was mah4angel correct with 3 weeks? I can’t find anything online about how long or even that you should freeze it…

[mah4angel]

I really need to get a kitchen scale, because everything is in pounds and grams/milligrams and I have no current way of measuring that. Which only adds to the anxiety lol. Actually, I think this would be about 10000000000 times easier if I just invested in a kitchen scale 🙂 HDM, your advice and information is SO appreciated!! I’m such a troll on here and you’re always so kind and helpful, and never condescending or impatient. THANKS SO MUCH, and Louie thanks you, too!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Cod liver oil is lower in omega 3’s than most other oils and in order to supply enough cod liver oil to give adequate amounts of omega 3’s you probably end up with excessive levels of vitamin a and d. I give each of my dogs a 1,000 mg. capsule of Carlson brand cod liver oil daily (provides 250 IU vitamin D, 2,000 IU vitamin A and 240 mg. omega 3’s). Dogs should receive about 2.3 mg. manganese for every pound of food they eat on a dry matter basis (so for a raw food which is high in moisture this would equate to about 0.6 mg. per pound fed). Ground flax has 0.2 mg. per tbs. Some other foods rich in manganese pecans, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds and oysters. I would say that, yes, a human multivitamin should have adequate levels of vitamin e. I would make sure your dog is getting around 50 IU per 25 lbs. (the minimum dietary requirement is lower than thus but vitamin e requirements increase with omega 3 supplementation and it it has antioxidant benefits so for this reason I think it’s important to give a little more).

[Hound Dog Mom]

You freeze pork to eliminate trichinosis (as mah4angels pointed out) and also Aujeszky’s Disease and tapeworm cysts. Although the likelihood of any of these things actually being present in commercially raised pork is small, it’s better to be safe than sorry.

[mah4angel]

OH and RMB’s in the evenings.

[mah4angel]

Yes, I believe Trichinosis.

[mah4angel]

Okay!

Would cod liver oil supply enough omega-3’s to replace something like a salmon oil so that I can kill two birds with one stone? I know that the whole sardines would be high in omega-3’s but I’m not sure that cod liver oil would be acceptable. Would flax seed be high enough is manganese (I have a lot of flax seed here lol)? How much manganese should I supplement? Would the human multivitamin supply enough vitamin E (obviously there are a million human multi’s and you can’t know for sure, but, just in general)?

I’m up to here with my menu. This is all assuming all of my questions are answered with a “yes”:

1/2 cup raw whole grind (alternating between protein sources)
1/2 cup XKALIBER grind (greentripe.com)
1/4 capsule of a no-calcium human multi
1/2 tbsp flax seed (this is what I’m currently giving, I don’t know that this is adequate, too little or too much)
Alternate between Dr. Harvey’s and Daily Greens
Alternating between cod liver oil and whole sardines
Swanson’s glandular supplement (assuming my grind happens to not include glands)

[Cyndi]

Well, I’ve been feeding raw for 2 months and her gas just started recently, that’s why I was wondering if it might be the liver or the rabbit grind and why. & do you know why to freeze the pork for 3 weeks? Parasites or something?

[Hound Dog Mom]

hi mah4angel –

I have read mixed things about the safety of stevia for dogs and I personally would not risk feeding a stevia-containing product to any of my crew.

The Dr. Harvey’s supplement doesn’t contain vitamins and minerals so it wouldn’t take the place of a multivitamin. It’s a whole food supplement that will contain some trace nutrients and immune boosters.

Looking at what you plan on feeding I would recommend adding a multi – what’s standing out to me right off it that it would be deficient in vitamin d, vitamin e and probably manganese or you would want to add whole foods that would supply these nutrients. Dairy, raw sardines and cod liver oil are high in vitamin d. Nuts and seeds are high in manganese. Wheat germ oil, certain nuts and seeds and some cage free eggs are rich in vitamin e but I personally prefer supplementing with this vitamin to ensure adequate amounts.

[mah4angel]

Okay! Yeah, next time I go to my local raw supplier I’ll ask if their grind contains glands. I believe they said it was a whole grind but now I feel like I may have misinterpreted because that was a week or two ago and goodness help me if I can remember that far back -_-

[pugmomsandy]

HDM uses Swanson’s glandulars and so far I’ve used Pet GO. It is made up of body glands that aren’t normally available at the store. If you feed a whole prey then you would get these glands. I just give intermittenly, like all the other supplements.

http://mypetsfriend.com/pet-go.html

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/natural-sources-raw-multiple-60-caps

[mah4angel]

I believe it was 3 weeks, but I could very well be wrong about that.
Louie has been gassy since we got him and I can’t figure out if it’s better or worse on his partially raw diet. It could totally be the detox from the raw 🙂 Supposedly that’s one of the side effects of juice detoxes in humans, as well.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Shihtzumom –

Unfortunately that supplement wouldn’t be safe for a dog. It contains green tea extract which contains caffeine, caffeine is toxic to dogs – this was actually the main reason I asked for the ingredients list, most “green” supplements for humans contain green tea extract. It also contains grape extract – grapes are toxic to dogs (grape seed extract is okay though).

If you’re feeding an unbalanced diet and want some extra nutritional assurance I’d go with a basic one a day type human multi that has no calcium or that is low in calcium (<5% dv) so you don’t throw of the calcium to phosphorus ratio of the meal. For a small dog I’d give just 1/4 of a human tablet. No, the green supplement I have posted wouldn’t be a substitute for a multi, it will however provide trace nutrients and immune boosting effects and would be great to give in addition to a multi. You could use the glandular supplement as well – you can give this as daily if you want or just a few times a week (my dogs get a capsule of a glandular three days per week).

[Cyndi]

Hey Everyone! I have a question about pork necks. I haven’t given these to Bailey yet and I’d like to start. Right now I alternate chicken backs and turkey necks for her dinners and I’d like to start adding pork necks into the rotation. Do I have to freeze these for a certain length of time before I feed them, and why? I think I’ve read before that I do have to, but I couldn’t find where I read it.

Also, another question that has me wondering….. Bailey gets gas, really stinky gas, but I haven’t been able to narrow it down on what it is. I believe it might either be from the turkey livers or the whole ground rabbit carcass. Any ideas which it might be and why? She never had a problem with gas up until I started feeding those two things, which I started right about the same time, so I can’t figure it out which one it might be…

[mah4angel]

Yeah, when I was lying in bed after doing my research on the vitamins I was thinking of alternating between the two supplements for variety. I just wasn’t sure if that would a good balance over time so yay 🙂
I actually only feed once a day because it’s easier on me (because, again, I’m lazy haha) so I would probably alternate every day or every other day.
What glandular supplement is recommended? I’ve seen a few mentioned, but I’m not 100% sure where lol. How would I include a glandular supplement (every day, every other day) and would that be something else to alternate between multiple formulas? Also, what does a glandular supplement consist of? And, what does it do, exactly (I’m thinking it supports the body’s glands but that’s a tiny bit vague lol)?

[pugmomsandy]

Actually I alternate the green supplement. I’ll use Dr Harvey’s in one batch, then ONP Super Daily Greens the next batch. Just like rotating foods. Remember, “balance over time”. I just noticed the Young Again supplement when the review came out for the food so I might try that in the future. I like the fact that Dr Harvey’s has herbs/botanicals and bee pollen (which I have bee pollen anyways) but it doesn’t appear to have all the crucifers like ONP Super Daily Greens (which I don’t want to feed crucifers everday). So a balance for me is to alternate those. I could even make a batch of food and use one supp on half and one supp on the other half so that they are alternating with each feed. It’s totally customizable.

And if you’re making a homamade veggie/fruit mix, don’t use foods from the broccoli family everytime. (broccoli, kale, cabbage, etc)

On your menu above, you could also offer a glandular supplement.

[mah4angel]

Also, the Young Again supplement specifically states not to supplement with anything else.

Also, should I be adding anything to the future menu? Is it missing anything essential? I’m sure it’s missing some vitamins and minerals.
1/2 cup raw whole grind (alternating between chicken, beef, pork, etc.)
1/2 cup XKALIBER green tripe grind (greentripe.com)
Some sort of fruit/vegetable supplement (for antioxidants and vitamins)
Some sort of omega-3 supplement (fish oil, whole fish, etc.)
RMB’s

[mah4angel]

Do you think Dr. Harvey’s would be the best of both worlds as far as supplementation? It has both vitamins and super foods, whereas as the Young Again has more vitamins and the Daily Greens has more super foods.
Because I’ll be adding green tripe into his diet (within the next week, hopefully), it seems that he won’t really need the added probiotics, enzymes, or fiber that the Young Again product offers.
The Daily Greens is essentially what I was looking for but now I’m wondering if that’ll all be enough or if I would also need to add a multivitamin or something. AH idk 🙁

[pugmomsandy]

Here is a raw food supplement. Comes with calcium or without.

http://youngagainpetfood.com/10browse.asp?category=raws&ProductCode=92220

And I use this green product sometimes:

Natural Dog Supplements & Vitamins

and also Dr. Harvey’s http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Dr-Harveys-MultiVitamin-Mineral-Herbal-Supplement/269030.aspx

Stevia being plant derived would be ok in moderation of course, just like using honey.

[mah4angel]

Is stevia safe for dogs? It’s in the ingredients for the Green’s Multi, which is why I’m asking.

[Shihtzumom20]

Hi Hound Dog Mom,
Thanks for replying! The ingredients for the Green’s Multi are:

Ingredients per serving (16.9g): Medicinal Ingredients – Vitamin A (palmitate), Vitamin C (ascorbic acid, ascorbates), Vitamin B1 (thiamine mononitrate), Vitamin B2 (riboflavin), Vitamin B3 (niacinamide), Vitamin D (cholecalciferol), Vitamin E (d-alpha tocopheryl acetate), Vitamin B5 (d-pantothenic acid), Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine hydrochloride), Vitamin B12 (cyanocobalamine), Folic acid, Biotin, Calcium (citrate), Magnesium (citrate), Zinc (proteinate), Chromium (proteinate), Selenium (proteinate), Manganese (proteinate), Iodine (proteinate), Vanadium (HVP chelate), Molybdenum (proteinate), Lipotropic factor – Inositol. Also contains naturally occurring – Beta Carotene, Iron, Choline. In a base of greens+ – Natural fresh fruit flavour blend with stevia, Phosphatide complex (26% phosphatidyl choline from 97% oil-free lecithin), Organic alfalfa, barley, wheat grass & red beet powders, Spirulina, Apple pectin, Japanese Chlorella (cracked cell), Organic soy sprouts, Organic whole brown rice powder, Seven non-dary bacterial cultures containing Lactobacilli and bifidobacteria (2.5 billion per serving) in a special base of fructo-oligosaccharides, Malic acid, Royal jelly (5% 10-HDA), Bee pollen, Licorice root extract standardized to 10% glycyrrhizin, Acerola berry juice powder, Siberian ginseng extract standardized to 0.8% eleutherosides, Milk thistle extract standardized to 80% silymarin, Citric acid, Organic Nova Scotia dulse powder, Ginkgo biloba extract standardized to 24% ginkgo flavonglycosides and 6% terpene lactones, Japanese green tea extract standardized to 90% polyphenols, European bilberry extract standardized to 25% anthocyanidins, Full spectrum grape extract standardized to 95% procyanidolic value and 500ppm Resveratrol

Would this be ok? If so how much would he get? If not is there a multi-vitamin you would recommend? Or could I make up your whole food supplement and that would provide all he needs?
Could I use the glandular supplement as well? How often would he get that? I still will try with the veggies for sure, maybe “hidden” in raw meat he will gobble them down!
Thanks for your help!

[mah4angel]

Thanks HDM!
So, do you think that pretty much any combination of super foods would be a good idea? My Costco has organic baby kale at an AMAZING price. Unfortunately, I prefer “adult” kale (I guess?) so I don’t ever actually buy it. Do you think that kale would be a good superfood for dogs? I don’t know that it’ll be super easy to find alfalfa, wheat grass, kelp, etc. Someone also said they add in berries for antioxidant benefits.
I guess I’m just being cheap and lazy lol. I’m just trying my best to get in a lot of nutrients and whatnot with a little less work hunting down the ingredients and making the food.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi mah4angel –

I use capsules and poke a hole using a thumbtack and squirt on the food. It’s generally recommended to give enough fish oil to provide 400 – 600 mg. combined EPA and DHA per 20 lbs. of body weight (most fish oil capsules have around 300 mg. per capsule).

If you plan on feeding fruits and vegetables and you’re feeding RMB’s, a fiber supplement shouldn’t be necessary. I’d also say probiotics and enzymes aren’t necessary if you’re feeding raw green tripe regularly.

For vegetables, just pick some out at the grocery store (no onions!) cook and puree them. I give my dogs about 1/2 C. per day (they’re both around 70 lbs.). Good green “super food” supplements include: kelp, alfalfa, spirulina, chlorella, wheat grass, etc. etc. I make a homemade super food supplement mixing equal parts kelp, alfalfa, wheat grass, spirulina and bee pollen (I switch up the ingredients occasionally). I give my girls 2 tsp. each – I’d say around 1/2 tsp. per 15 – 20 lbs. would be a good dose.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi shihtzumom –

Unfortunately I can’t seem to find an ingredient list for the “Greens Multi.” Some human multi’s (especiall those with added whole foods) can contain herbs or fruits/vegetables that are unsafe for dogs so it’s important to know that all the ingredients are safe prior to feeding.

I use both the glandular and fruit complex – they add an extra immune system “boost” but would not take the place of a multivitamin.

You can use sardines or krill oil. If you’re using krill oil give enough to provide about 400 – 600 mg. combines EPA and DHA per day per 20 lbs. body weight. If you’re feeding sardines give 1/4 can per 5 lbs., 1/2 can per 15 lbs. or 5/8 can per 25 lbs. per week.

I feel that vegetables provide important antioxidant benefits, however if your dog won’t eat them they aren’t essential. I would however be sure to add a green superfood supplements (kelp, alfalfa, spirulina, chlorella, wheat grass, etc.). Depending on whether or not you’re feeding bone, you may also need to add some supplemental fiber (such as psyllium) if you aren’t feeding any vegetables.

[mah4angel]

I also had questions about supplementation with vegetables and with fish oil!
Costco has Wild Alaskan Salmon oil pills (not in the pump like they have at Pet Smart), would these be okay? Coated or uncoated? Do I poke a hole in them and squeeze out the oil? How many mg’s of omega-3’s and 6’s does he need (what should I look for on the label as far as levels are concerned with a supplement like this)?
I also found some Herbacil Artichoke Dietary Supplement at Target, it’s in a little bottle/vile thingy in liquid form, I guess, and it contains artichoke, grapefruit, fennel, prickly pear, apple cider vinegar, and L-Carnitine. What fruit/vegetable supplements would you guys recommend? I just sort of didn’t feel right about the Herbacil (idk, I guess I was looking for something with more superfoods?), and it was a little pricey. I also had no idea how much I should be adding to his food. Maybe a powdered supplement would be better?

Right now, here’s what I’m doing for Louie:
1/2 cup raw whole chicken grind
1/2 tablespoon of golden flax (for fiber and a little extra omega-3’s and 6’s)
1/2 tablespoon of low fat plain yogurt (enzymes/probiotics)
1/2 cup of Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural (I’ve kept this in so far because I have yet to figure out my supplementation and this formula has omega-3 sources (fish) very high up on the ingredient list as well as fruits and vegetables… Also, it wasn’t cheap to buy and I still have quite a bit left)

I’m hoping to get here:
1/2 cup raw whole grind (alternating between chicken, beef, pork, etc.)
1/2 cup XKALIBER green tripe grind (greentripe.com)
Some sort of fruit/vegetable supplement (for antioxidants and vitamins)
Some sort of omega-3 supplement (fish oil, whole fish, etc.)
RMB’s: I was giving him pork necks (which were GREAT, he LOVED them!!) but then my mother-in-law cooked them -___________- So now I’ll have to go out and somehow find pork necks for him and freeze them for 3 weeks before I can start giving them to him again, or find some chicken necks or something comparable for his size (he’s a little silky; 10 pounds)
I believe everyone said that I wouldn’t need to add any fiber, enzymes or probiotics because of the green tripe, but I’d like to be sure. Also, any fruit/vegetable supplement should contain fiber, anyway.

Your advice, as always, is much appreciated!

• This reply was modified 12 years, 9 months ago by mah4angel.

[Shihtzumom20]

So I am trying to get myself organized to start feeding Dawson his raw meal in the pm. I saw Hound Dog Mom’s simplified recipe and I would like to start with that. Is there a certain multi-vitamin that would be better? Could I use the Green’s multi-vitamin? Here is a link:
http://www.nutritionhouse.com/greens-multi-507g-p-251.html#.UdiqkPlO_jA

I was also looking at the Swanson’s glandular and concentrated multi-fruit complex, could I use a mixture of these things? or would I still need a multi-vitamin? I like using krill oil for him anyways, but he does like sardines, could I feed him a sardine for a meal a couple times a week and that would be ok? Or would it just be best to use the krill oil?
He also hates vegetables… He picks the carrots out of his grandma Lucy’s and he just isn’t a fan of vegetables in general. Any suggestions?
I would follow Hound Dog Mom’s 1Ib boneless meat+1/4 cup cooked vegetables (unless you could suggest an alternative)+multi-vitamin (could I use the Green’s for this? if I could and then maybe need to add one or two things that would be nice. Or another multi-vitamin you like)+calcium+krill oil, or the sardines? Or would the sardines just be an “extra” that he would get?
I would like to start him by next weekend if all goes to plan!

[DieselJunki]

It’s a sister group to the yahoo group Raw Chat and Raw Feed. They just put it on facebook. And any comments about things with plants are automatically deleted as wolves in the wild don’t eat such things and if they do it comprises of such a small bit of their diet that why bother feed.

[Hound Dog Mom]

What? I’m not familiar with either of these Facebook groups (I actually don’t have a Facebook) but I can’t understand why someone wouldn’t be in support of natural supplements for an elderly dog with arthritis? Many glucosamine and chondroitin supplements are actually animal-derived (usually shellfish, shark or bovine or chicken cartilage). There are also many “animal” based supplements such as green lipped mussel, sea cucumber and velvet antler that have been proven effective. I still don’t, however, see why any one would be opposed to a plant-derived supplement either. It’s true that raw diets are high in naturally occurring GAG’s but some dogs with orthopedic issues need more than that and anti-inflammatories can help a lot in many cases.

[DieselJunki]

Does anyone else think that the RC and RF group on fb are crazily moderated. Someone was looking for advice on joint issue in her 16 year old dog and I mentioned something that HDM had said about the GAGs and Anti-Inflammatories. My comment was immediately deleted. I mean I know that the Anti-Inflammatories aren’t exactly raw based but they have been proven to help dogs, at least that’s what it seems in the things I have read about them. Even if they are plant based.

All I did was mention the Anti-Inflammatories and said she could google them or I could send her a message and link her to the post from HDM here.

• This topic was modified 12 years, 9 months ago by DieselJunki.

[Anonymous]

My Lab was feed raw before he was diagnosed with Crohns (IBD).We gave him the canned Royal Canin before going onto the R.C. hypoallergenic kibble. For the first year it was hard to keep weight on him and keep him stable. We had to be very strict he didn’t eat any other food as it would upset him. I intended going back to raw once he stabilised, but haven’t been able to. The smallest amount of other food sends him into a vomit session. He has been on it 5 years and the only things he can eat are red apples, not green, rice, a little kiwi fruit, beans and carrots.

A few months ago he ate a kebab and has been unstable since so had to cut out all extras and only feed his food. This week I am trying apples, and beans again to see if his gut has settled.

I know the kibble isn’t what I want, but it is what suits him so stick with it.

[NectarMom]

Yes HDM they got Salmonella from Raw and Pancreatitis. My shihtzu was hospitalized and had to be on IV fluids for 2 days. My vet handed me a stack of paperwork talking about the risk involved in feeding Raw. I know most vets are unless holistic vet are against feeding Raw and because they did not take courses in canine nutrition so they do not understand the Raw thing and simply do not agree with it. It scared me to death and I thought I was going to loose her because of something I chose to feed her. Now I am super careful what I choose to feed and it cannot be very high fat for sure. Dogs can also get Salmonella bacteria from kibble so I do take this all with a grain of salt. I am honestly more Leary of kibble these days than Raw.

[Hound Dog Mom]

NectarMom –

Your dogs got bacteria from raw? I remembered reading about the pancreatitis but I don’t recall reading about that. That’s too bad. What type of bacteria did they get infected with?

[DogFoodie]

Aww, Ron, I’m sorry about Eddie. : (

A lot of us here aren’t crazy about the foods our vets recommend. Vets get very little education in nutrition and what they do get is usually sponsored by the very same brands they usually sell in their clinics and recommend to their patients. I see an integrative vet and love that both she and the vet I see for my pup’s chiropractic care, prefer raw ~ but, they’re both far from the norm in their philosophies. All the vets at the practice where I see my integrative vet are Purdue vets (which, being a Purdue alum myself, I love), but for the most part, it’s traditional veterinary medicine.

Keep asking your questions here and stick around, you’ll learn more than you ever thought imaginable about dog food!

[NectarMom]

It can depend on the dog or dogs IMO. Two of my dogs got Pancreatitis and bad bacteria from Raw but two did fine. There are A LOT of factors to take into consideration when starting to feed a Raw diet. You have to learn what your dogs can handle fat wise and Protein wise. I have small dogs, 3 Chihuahuas and a Shihtzu. I believe in feeding an all Raw diet and I saw a huge improvement in my dogs teeth, breath and coats and over all activeness but we for sure paid the price with a $1300 vet bill with one of ours. Do lots of home work before you start it. I only feed mine a lower fat Raw such as Rabbit and Turkey but we have been off of Raw now and just on kibble for a couple of weeks now but we are about to start up the low fat Raw once again.

[swampstomper]

Thanks for the info Hound Dog Mom. Much appreciated!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hey Sandy –

They’re eating pork necks in the bottom two pictures. I can get great T-cut pork necks from my supplier that are usually around 1 1/2 lbs. each – perfect sized meal for them!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi swampstomper –

This is a great question! I have fed my dogs a raw diet for about two years now and none have ever gotten sick and neither have I or anyone else around my dogs. Healthy dogs are fully equipped to handle the bacterial load present in fresh raw meat. For starters a dog’s saliva has antibacterial properties – there is a lysosome in their saliva that destroys bacteria (why they lick their wounds). Carnivores (like dogs) have extremely short digestive tracts in comparison to, say, a person’s digestive tract. Their digestive tracts are designed to get food in and out quickly before the bacteria have time to multiply to harmful levels. Lastly, dogs have very acidic stomach acid – much stronger than our stomach acid. In terms of nutrition requirements and their digestive system, dogs are not much different than their ancestors (wolves). Wolves not only eat fresh kill but also scavenge rotting carcasses (not that I’d recommend intentionally feeding a dog rotting meat! my dogs have, however, gotten a hold of many dead things over the years and never gotten sick). Dogs are meant to eat raw meat. The only instance in which I’d caution against a raw diet is for a dog with a compromised immune system. It’s also important to keep in mind that kibble-fed dogs are not immune to bacterial exposure – look at all the recent kibble recalls for salmonella! Salmonella is a normal constituent of the canine digestive tract and dogs fed raw and cooked diets have all been known to shed the bacteria in their feces.

I’d recommend checking out this article written by Dr. Karen Becker – holistic veterinarian and raw food advocate:

healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/02/15/raw-meat-the-best-and-healthiest-diet-for-pet-cats-and-dogs.aspx

As far as consuming bones – there are two types of bones: raw meaty bones (termed “RMBs”) and recreational bones. Raw meaty bones (i.e. chicken backs, turkey necks, etc.) are soft and pliable and consumed in their entirety – they should make up a large portion of a balanced raw diet. Recreational bones (i.e. marrow bones, knuckle bones or the deer leg you see Gertie eating above) are more dense are not consumed entirely – they’re more for enrichment.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 9 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[swampstomper]

I’m curious about this. There’s no danger in letting them eat raw meat? Salmonella, e coli, that sort of thing?

They eat the bones and all?

[pugmomsandy]

What are they eating? I found a bunny burrow in my backyard this morning with dead babies 🙁 I didn’t even know they were there. The lawn mowers ran over them yesterday I guess and mom must have gotten scared off. They (rabbits) usually stay in the field behind the house.

[theBCnut]

Yummy! Deer!

[Hound Dog Mom]

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[Mom2Vader]

My beautiful Standard Schnauzer Vader was recently diagnosed with Lymphangiectasia, a form of IBD. The vet says that he needs a low fat diet of about 3%. I’ve never heard of such a low fat amount and it certainly goes against my somewhat limited knowledge of biology that the brain has to have fat to function.

Vader couldn’t keep down any amount of Wellness Core kibble so I decided to give him my vet’s prescription of canned Science Diet i/d and lowfat. It wasn’t my first choice, but he was still losing weight, so I give him that and supplement with cooked chicken breast, defatted chicken stock, and some sweet potato. He’s since gained most of the weight he lost but I’m not sure whether that was the Science Diet or if it was the chicken stock, chicken, and sweet potatoes that did the trick.

Now that I have Vader stabilized, I’m looking at long term diet changes. I’ve had my dogs on 4 different kibbles in the last 10 years and every one has failed me after 2-4 years. All of the canned food on DFA contain carrageenan or tomato or guar gum or even flaxseed (they get rancid pretty fast so I’m not convinced that it’s such a good thing). So now I’m down to cooking for my dogs or going raw. Raw seems a little high in fat for Vader so I’m wondering what I can do to lower the fat intake for Vader and still have high enough for my other dog.

I’m waiting on a few books to get here next week but I thought maybe someone on here could offer advice from personal experience.

[Hound Dog Mom]

If you’re looking for quality/budget friendly supplements I’d highly recommend checking out Swanson’s. I started ordering all my supplements and my dog’s supplements there. They have a wonderful selection and the prices are unbelievable. I’ve been able to cut my costs for my dogs’ meals (I feed homemade raw) by so much – paying top dollar for supplements really adds up.

[pugmomsandy]

I’ve used TT since last fall. I’ve used tripe, tripe blend, beef blend, ground turkey necks, wild boar and also use the organs when making homemade batches (chicken heart, beef heart, pork organs, beef spleen) and other organs from the grocery store. I make my own poultry blends. The salmon is wild caught Pacific Salmon and I haven’t bought it since I get whole wild caught sardines at El Rancho supermarket.

This is from Roger (Texas Tripe) , “the Salmon is wild caught Pacific Salmon, I have wrote several articles dealing with this subject. I will try to find them and send it to you. but in a nut shell… there are no reported cases in the last number of years of trichinosis, also freezing at 0 degrees for 24 hours kills most strains of trichinosis and all of the strains that have been known to be in the U.S.”

You can join the DFW_BARF@yahoogroups.com. This is the local raw feeding group. Of course, we talk about other things too.

That being said, I really don’t know much about fish parasites other than to freeze. I’d really rec’ getting an upright freezer so you can rotate products. Much easier to find things than in a chest freezer especially since I bought nearly 300 lbs at once!

[dogmom2]

Hi there! It has been a while since I posted last, but I thought I would pop in and update what is going on in our world.

Hank has finally healed after round and rounds of interdigital furuncles on the one foot. We started out using laser therapy, then antibiotics and then culture and sensitivity. That foot flared up and would “heal” and flare up again at least 6 times. By the time we hit the 3rd flare up I decided that antibiotics, laser etc just were not cutting the mustard and just stopped. We did 3 times daily soaks of epsom, warm water and a “glug” of H2O2…and finally it went away. (knock on wood). We have been free of them now for about 6 weeks.
Meanwhile, we are still feeding Darwins for the main food, and usually evening meals consist of Brothers Allergy or nice organic meat, organ and bone..or meat and preference. It has been a year of feeding raw, and I have een a huge difference in both my dogs health. Dewey no longer has regurgitation, and Hank’s allergy issue has really improved. I have become firmly committed person to “real food for dogs”. My DH is all on board too, which makes it easier.

So in addition to their probiotics, and sardines, spirulina etc..I have been reading about organic virgin coconut oil and started adding a small amount into their food daily. Being Labs, they love it and so far no negatives in their stool etc. An added benefit is that my hands are really soft, too.

I just wanted to check in and say hello. I am in and out reading up on what is going on, but have not posted in a bit.

🙂