[Cyndi]

Thanks, SanDnMila! I order from Hare Today all the time, and I knew that, but that didn’t even cross my mind, lol! I have SO much on my mind these days I just plain forgot that I do that all the time too. I thaw my grinds out to portion them out and then refreeze. I guess I was just worried about thawing and refreezing the stuff again and again. I’m sure it will still be fine though.

[SandyandMila]

Refreeze* not referee lol

[SandyandMila]

Hare Today states on their websit that ” it is fine to referee and will not effect the quality of the products”. And that’s after shipping for a couple days, so u should be ok. I probably won’t get my first order til next week so I don’t know personally, I just got that info from their site.

[Hershy]

Hi, Patty,
Thanks for your post. Well said about the topic of Vets and animal nutrition…always room for improvement, right?…by me, too! I definitely plan to do a much better job feeding my “kids” a delicious and healthy diet.

HI, HDM & Patty,
And looks like I may get a second chance with my Charlotte girl. I am thankful that Charlotte’s cancer screen came back negative yesterday evening, but Vet held back saying there was none, in that she said she sampled only a small portion, so could still be early stages. I’ll take that, and look at it as another chance to do a better job with her. If she has it, at least it is very early.
Thanks, HDM and Patty, for encouraging me to go ahead with the test. Of course I needed to know. Not sure what I was thinking.
Now, moving forward with her new diet, mostly raw. I will start with her, and slowly add the other 3. Although I have already transitioned all to 4 & 5 star kibble. I top my puppy, Crystal’s, Nutri-Source Lg. Breed puppy food with Merrik Grain Free Tripe, and the 3 big dogs have been getting Pro Balance Canned as a topper.
I can’t thank you all enough for this education I continue to receive. How I nourish my dogs will keep improving, and I will definitely keep in touch with this forum.
Will soon add the raw food forum to my list of preferred reading : )
Patty, hope your dog’s result was at least as good.
Thanks, again!

[EHubbman]

Ok! Back from the vet!

I was seriously not impressed with the care we got from the one I’d been bringing family pets to since I was six, so we went elsewhere. That seriously miffed me. They’d been great with all our other pets, but then I brought in my little guy at 14 weeks (!) and I think the vet just had it out for him because he’s seen as a bully breed. Vets shouldn’t be breedist, methinks, because they see good and bad examples of all breeds, big and small, bad rep or not. Off my soapbox, though. She wouldn’t believe me when I said he had tapeworms and even brought in a sample with the segment clearly sitting right on top, among other things. I talked to her about giardia and she’s like, no he doesn’t have it, without testing and seemed quite reluctant upon my insistence of it.

SO! New vet, recommended from a friend, who also happens to be a vet tech there, which was wonderful. They were going to run the EPI and fecal pathogen test, but the vet did a wellness check on him and his body condition, activity level, and personality were all awesome, so we’re starting first with a diet change. She said the funny color stools were because the last vet’s response to my saying “please help, diarrhea for a month now” was just to throw antibiotics at him that did nothing, so his gut is all sort of out of whack. The did a wellness check, fecal float, coccidia and giardia tests, and a few other things I don’t remember off the top of my head.

We’re trying a royal canin RX GI food (ewewew, I cringe at the ingredient list!) for two weeks. So for two weeks, all he’s allowed to ingest is the GI food, and boiled chicken as training treats. She wants to keep him on the Fortiflora (because she’s used to it) just for now, but when I asked her about the 15 strain supplement you told me about, she was all for it. We went for the abrupt change because his gut is so messed up, and once he’s stable we’re going to slowly transition him to raw. I love that I found a vet that is all for raw and can’t wait to help me swap to it!!! She seems amazing, and I love her team. 🙂 If, though, the 2 week seriously limited diet does nothing, though, then he gets to go through a gauntlet of testing. She’s almost completely certain, though, that it’s dietary and not anything seriously wrong, which helps me breathe easier.

Although I’m not a fan of the GI food ingredients and fortiflora, I’m ok with it for now, just to get him sorted. I want to give this vet a chance to try what she knows before I just go “Ew, no.” and be the brat that asks for help but won’t accept what’s given as help. That and because she wants to start working him toward raw asap. Who knows. We’ll see where it goes.

Not sure I’m gonna be able to deal with the puppy eyes when he doesn’t get to have his dried trachea…or bully sticks… or duck feeties…. o.o Haha!

[Cyndi]

Hi everyone! I guess, by reading this thread, my question is for Hound Dog Mom, or should I say “Hot” Dog Mom! Lol! Sorry! I will never do that again, lol!

Anyways, I am driving to New Jersey next week with Bailey. It’s a 7 hour drive. I have a cooler for her food. My question is, I’m wondering if, in 7 hours, if her food will thaw out, and does it matter if it does and if I can just refreeze it once I get to where I’m going? I have like 4 ice packs and I will get some regular ice to cover her food once it’s in the cooler, so I don’t know if stuff will completely thaw or not, but I would imagine it’s ok to refreeze the stuff.

Another question, for anyone that has traveled with their dog that is raw fed, is there any problems that you ran into or anything that might help me in knowing ahead of time, so I can prevent it from happening to me? Like, maybe you forgot something, or didn’t use enough ice, or in my case I’m wondering how I’m going to make sure her dinner is thawed enough to eat, cuz she’ll be eating on the road…

Any help/tips anyone can give me would be GREATLY appreciated!

[Hershy]

Thank you, for getting back to me so quickly. I appreciate your wisdom and advice. You’re right. I need to know. I didn’t mean to make the cost of the test seem like the first consideration. I am on a pretty tight budget, but I will find a way to do what I need to do. I am putting the cart before the horse. I pray she doesn’t have cancer. She’s my special girl! I guess I have to prepare myself for the worst. I called them and told them to go ahead with the test. But I do know, if she does have it, I will not make her undergo a bunch of chemical treatment (as far as I know). I will to the alternative route for treatment, if necessary. And thank you for the information on what things to avoid, and to give. She is going to start on a raw diet as soon as I can get it together! I was making my own for part of last year, but got too busy. Poor Charlotte has been on inferior food for most of her life because I didn’t know any better. I have always switched up foods a little, but usually didn’t end up being to a food that was any better for her. They all claim to be the best. I am so grateful for this site. Why don’t dog food companies and especially VETS! learn about dog nutrition?? And then to recommend SCIENCE DIET!? I just wish I had seen this site 5 years ago,and maybe Charlotte wouldn’t be having these issues now.

I’m picking Charlotte up from the vet this evening, so am hoping for the best.
Thanks, again.

[Cranberry]

What are your thoughts on Dr.Harvey’s fine ground, Sojos grain free, and THK preference? I am having trouble deciding on which one to feed my dogs(6lb and 11lb chihuahuas). They will not be eating raw, so which one do you think is best? I am also worried about the sugar content. My smallest one goes into a hypoglycemic seizure(?) if she doesn’t eat in the morning. Currently they are eating kibbles and bits which has so much sugar that it is making me worried about changing.

While I have a topic, what are your favorite canned foods? Last time I fed dr.harveys/sojos I ended up using canned food as the meat, so I’ll probably end up doing that again. The two brands that stick out to me are Addiction and Wellness 95%.

[SandyandMila]

Yes the primal chicken mix is the only one I’ve tried so far and just got the Bravo burger blends but haven’t tried it yet. I feed commercial raw in the am and either RMBs or that mix in the pm and the kibble and canned on the weekend for dinner. I haven’t used the Preference yet, maybe return it for baby veggie puree or the whole food supplement? And again the whole food supplement can be given whether commercial and homemade raw? Should I be worried about the brewers yeast in the Nature’s Logic? Mila’s skin and coat has been damaged due to allergies, not sure if the brewers yeast will make it worse? That’s the reason why I’ve switched her to raw and adding krill, sardine, coconut oils and supplements to get food. Thanks for all the help.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Yes, as long as you are feeding grinds that contain meat/organ/bone in the proper proportions (such as the case with Primal and Bravo) and these grinds make up less than half of her diet (i.e. kibble for breakfast and grind for dinner) you would be fine just adding a whole food supplement (or even no supplement, but I believe whole food supplements are very beneficial). Are you able to get the Primal mixes? I used these when I first started feeding raw. I believe they’re 80% meat/organ/bone and 20% fruits, veggies and herbs. To use up the rest of your Preference I say just pick up some ground beef or turkey at the grocery store and use that following the instructions on the package.

[SandyandMila]

Can I just use the one I got periodically, it’s a big bottle that I really don’t want it to go to waste. I can add the green superfood to her diet once I get it and give her less of the multi. If I feed Preference with her homemade raw which has vitamins and minerals including kelp and alfalfa do I still need a green or multi supplement? I know HDM said u can’t overdose on them, just want to make sure I know what I’m doing. She’s already been getting bee pollen and the commercial raw she’s had has coconut oil, salmon oil, and ACV so I’d just be giving those with the homemade raw, right? The dry and wet food is only one or two days a week and will be less once my Hare Today order comes in.

[pugmomsandy]

Nature’s Logic has a whole food supplement when you feed homemade raw. The other foods (kibble, canned) are already complete and balanced (except for superfoods). You can find the green superfoods at the supermarket in the health food section and of course Amazon. I buy from Starwest Botanicals too.

[EHubbman]

Thank you so much! 🙂 I did forget to mention that he is indeed on probiotics. (Fortiflora, got it from the vet.)

So when he was still eating half bland and half kibble, his meals were:half bland, half kibble, his dose of antibiotics, probiotics, and a small amount of pumpkin to try and firm him up.

I think tomorrow we’re going to go to a different vet and get him a good once over (and a giardia test) to see what. hey have to say. I’ve been wholly unimpressed with my vet through all of this.

Thank you so much again for all of your help! I’ve been so lost with all of this that it’s so nice to have someone so well informed to talk to.

If the second vet does suggest a good change, would you think that the zignature lamb would be OK until I can research raw properly? Or would you go with something else?

(Typing this on mobile, so I apologize if there is anything that doesn’t look quite right!)

[SandyandMila]

Bummer I thought I had gotten a good product and started giving it to her today. 🙁 I didn’t find what I was originally looking for (spirulina powder, chlorella powder, wheat grass powder etc.). I feed mostly raw (commercial and homemade) but also kibble (NV or Orijen) and canned (wellness, weruva) when I don’t have raw. I also just got Preference to feed with grinds for the added fruits, veggies, vitamins, and minerals. So I would have to get a whole foods supplement + a multi? I also saw this at the store, it is human-grade but they had it in the pet section as well. Is it a better option? http://www.solgar.com/pub/supplement/1180.pdf. I’ll read your post on the other forum. Guess I’m still confused with all if this. Can I feed the one I got with grinds and my RMB meals and just add a whole food supplement, if I can find one?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi EHubbman –

I would try to discourage him from drinking lake water – although not highly likely it is possible for dogs to contract giardia or leptospirosis from doing this. Has he been tested for Giardia (giardia can cause yellowish diarrhea) and is he on a quality multi-strain probiotic and digestive enzyme supplement? If not, I would have him tested for giardia (you have to specifically ask for this test, it won’t show up on a regular fecal and make sure your vet sends the sample to a lab – much more accurate than in-house testing) and get him on digestive supplements. You may also want to give an herbal digestive supplement (such as The Honest Kitchen’s Perfect Form) a try – some people have had a lot of success with herbal digestive supplements.

Orange tinged stool can be a sign of small intestine bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) – meaning the intestinal flora is off balance. This is common secondary condition with dogs who have endocrine pancreatic insufficiency (EPI). I would definitely discuss this with your veterinarian.

The Zignature Trout & Salmon formula is appropriate for large breed puppies and would be worth a shot if you want to try Zignaure – I believe the formulas are all fairly similar except for different proteins sources.

Raw would be a great option – especially for a sensitive dog. If this is something you’re willing and able to do that’s wonderful. It will be necessary to do a lot of research prior to embarking on a raw feeding regimen, however. I would recommend checking out dogaware(dot)com and picking up a copy of Steve Brown’s book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet.” You can also check out the recommended raw menus thread in the raw food forum – I have many of my crew’s menus posted.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 8 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Is Mila eating a homemade diet or commercial diet? (Sorry I’m drawing a blank here – I know you were trying raw but I can’t remember if you switched her completely to homemade raw or are just supplementing a commercial food with raw). If you’re feeding predominantly a commercially prepared balanced food (be it raw, kibble, etc.) I personally feel Mila would benefit much more from a whole food based supplement as opposed to a supplement such as this which consists of mostly synthetic vitamins and minerals (for more details on the benefits of whole food supplementation you can read the post I just made to sharkie on the large breed puppy thread). If she’s eating homemade food and you were planning on using this as a vitamin/mineral supplement, it’s not going to supply adequate levels of vitamin e or manganese (I don’t think I see managanese?) and I still feel that a whole food based supplement should be given in conjunction with a multivitamin/mineral. Sorry if any of this is repeated information or was already discussed, my brain isn’t all here today and I’m forgetting who I’ve talked to, what was said by who, etc. lol

[Hound Dog Mom]

Are you feeding a commercial raw diet or a homemade raw diet? If you’re feeding a commercial raw diet there would really be no need to add additional vegetables, but as long as they’re just added in small amounts I’m sure it would be fine. Sweet potatoes don’t get crunchy when baked so baked sweet potato wouldn’t add any crunch. A vegetable would have to be raw and in large pieces to be crunchy and dogs can’t efficiently digest vegetables in this form. Vegetables should be fed cooked and pureed. If you want to add crunch, feeding raw meaty bones (like turkey necks, chicken backs, etc.) would be a much better bet.

[EHubbman]

Also have a little guy with possible sensitivities? Needing some advice here, because I’m at a complete loss.

The whole timeline: 8 weeks, brought Dom home, had him on TOTW Puppy, which he stopped eating. We then switched to NV Rabbit, which he liked but got a smidge bored with, so I started adding different canned toppers. This whole time, his stools were normal and he was doing great.
After the small back of NV Rabbit, we switched to NV LID Turkey, which he did fine with for 2 weeks. After 2 weeks, though, he started getting diarrhea. In those 2 weeks, though, he also went swimming (and drinking) in a lake. He also go to play with his sister who, while she didn’t have fleas biting her, she had fleas on her (owner was in process of getting rid of them, I didn’t know this till later.). With how they were rough housing, I’m sure Dom ate a few fleas along the way.

So he has this diarrhea, and it’s not really going away. His stools softened then loosened. Took him to the vet and she gave him metronidazole (his stools were just soft, no mucus or blood) which did nothing for him. I took out the canned toppers, which also did nothing. I talked to a vet friend, and we talked about a few different things, including getting him on a bland diet to help sort him out. I went out to clean up the dog yard before this, though, and found a rice-sized white …thing? In his stool. Talked to the vet friend again, she said it was tapeworm. We ran into the vet, got Droncit and tylen powder (wormer and antibiotic.) So he was on a bland diet, took the dewormer. Had a solid stool full of odd white stuff (shed worms), Kept him on bland for a week with the antibiotics, and he did great. As soon as I started slowly mixing the NV LID Turkey back in, though, his stools got soft again. He also, though, went swimming in a different lake and probably drank some of that water, too. So I kept with the half and half (bland and kibble) to make sure it wasn’t the lake water upsetting his tummy. It wasn’t, so I went to find different food for him.

The gal I talked to at the local food store is suggesting Zignatture LI Lanb for him, but it’s not on the list of approved foods. What, in your opinion, should I do now? He’s currently back to bland, which I’m really not fond of because he’s not getting the nutrients he needs. This morning’s stool was firm, but slightly orange, and had two odd white things in it. Not sure what they were.

Should I take him to a different vet to get him a full work up, switch foods (and what to?), or…? This is my first time as an adult having a pup, and I’m really just lost now, because nothing seems to be working. I want to make sure and get him the best nutrition I possibly can.
Another friend and I spoke about just taking him full raw which, at this point, if it’s going to work for him, I’m not opposed to doing it but have no idea where to start and how to balance it for him.

Thanks for listening, all, and for any help or advice you have.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Sharfie –

It does have some beneficial ingredients (probiotics, enzymes, EFA’s and glucosamine) but it also has a lot of synthetic vitamins and minerals. Adding additional vitamins and minerals to a balanced commercial food really isn’t necessary and probably won’t provide any benefit to the dog. You couldn’t certainly discuss the supplement with your vet though if you wish to continue with it. Personally if it were me I’d just add plain yogurt or kefir, tinned sardines and digestive enzymes a few days a week or add a digestive supplement with enzymes and probiotics and a quality human-grade fish oil. There are also a lot of whole food based supplements available such as Nature’s Logic All-Food Fortifier, Nupro, Wholistic Canine Complete, Wysong’s Wild Things, Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Daily Boost, Dogzymes Cornucopia, Dr. Harvey’s Whole Food Based Multi-Vitamin, Udo’s Choice Pet Essentials, Carnivora’s Earth Greens etc. etc. Or you could even mix your own whole food supplement which is a lot cheaper. When I make my whole food supplement I purchase bulk ingredients from Swanson’s or Starwest Botanicals and combine them in the desired proportions. My general recipe is part kelp, 1 part spirulina, 1 part alfalfa, 1 part wheatgrass and 1 part bee pollen – occasionally I’ll sub in something else (chlorella, barley grass, sprouted chia, etc. for one of the other ingredients for variety). I also give things like glandulars, colostrum, etc. It’s nearly impossible to “overdose” on whole foods, the nutrients provided by whole foods are better utilized by the body and whole “superfoods” fill the nutritional gaps by adding phytonutrients, cartenoids, etc. that aren’t found in kibble or and that aren’t provided by synthetic multivitamins.

[k9cancer]

My Pyr 3 month old is on raw food. I woud like to give him some vege sups like sweet potato. Is that appropriate and if so portions and preparation help would be helpful.
I was wondering if I could bake them for a little crunch in his diet?
D

[Jessica1]

Hi H.D.M,
Thank you so much for all the information you have given me on grain vs. non grain, mixing etc. I felt lost before I came across your helpful advice. You have made this learning experience a lot less confusing.
I am now giving my boy the topper of Wellness just for puppy, which he loves, and I did start to slowly start the rotation process with Wellness Core grain free, unfortunately he will not eat it. He just does not like it. The Organix he will eat, of course he loves the topper and eats that first and only eats the dry when it’s all that’s left but he will eat it. But for some reason the Wellness Core he will actually spit out! Brat! He is as picky as my daughter! So I am going to try some other grain free brands. I would like to only give him the can but that going to get costly at $2.60 a can. (Still looking into the whole raw thing and building up my courage about that, ha ha) Takoda is now 10 to 11 weeks and at 18.4 lbs, the vet is happy with his weight and growth, I was wondering if you could tell me what you know about Kirkland Cuts. I see that it has 5 stars on this site but one I wasn’t sure it was suitable for large breed puppies and the protein level seemed a little low compared to Wellness puppy but I was hoping you could give me your advice on this. I have been looking for another can food to use as a topper (I don’t want to be locked into just one) do you have a suggestion for me, I’ve been looking at all the 5 stars on this site but I know that puppies requirements are different and they really are not laid out for these big guys. Thank you so much.

[NectarMom]

This is the only site I use also and while I don’t know as much as the others on here about Raw feeding I am certainly listening and learning. I for sure know Raw feeding is the best solution for our canines and felines and I have seen for myself the results but with my crew that has been on a kibble diet at least 3yrs of their lives we have to take it slow with the fat content in some proteins. I am grateful for finding this forum and appreciate the patience you all have had with me and my girls and the issues we have had. We seem to be on the right track with Raw this time around and will continue to improve with lots of time.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 8 months ago by NectarMom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Whaaat? That’s some ridiculous stuff you’re reading on that forum. 🙂

I have to say, the reason I love DFA so much is because there really is a great group of regular posters who are VERY knowledgeable not only about nutrition but about all aspects of animal health and wellness. This is the only online site I participate on. I have dropped into many other forums and review sites just to read and most have some very very inaccurate and ridiculous information – especially when it comes to raw feeding. Some forums just leave me shaking my head at the information being thrown around. I have been posting regularly on DFA for a little over a year now and I have learned so much – it’s my daily enrichment!

[SandyandMila]

I much rather come to this site especially since I’m new to raw feeding, you are all much more helpful. The week or 2 since reading from the raw feeding group so far I’ve read not to feed turkey necks, not to hold them when feeding them for the first time, not to feed chicken backs, and green tripe isn’t beneficial.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Raw green tripe does indeed contain gastric juices with enzymes. It also contains lactic acid bacteria (good bacteria), an ideal calcium to phosphorus ratio, a balanced ratio of linoleic and linolenic fatty acids and I’ve even heard that the pH of tripe is beneficial to dental health. Some of the enzymes and healthy bacteria will likely be destroyed during freezing but there should still be more than enough to provide benefits.

[SandyandMila]

I also just made my first order today! (But probably won’t be getting it for awhile :() I had to get the longer turkey necks and hearts, and also green tripe. I’ve read online on the raw feeders group the tripe doesn’t really have any enzymatic benefits once it leaves the cow it comes from. Is that true, what are the benefits of tripe? I’ll be mixing it into the beef meals.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Looks good and that’s a great deal – makes me wish I lived near a Cosco! I’ve been on a little coconut oil kick myself and if anyone is interested in tasty human products with organic extra virgin coconut oil I just tried a product from Artisana called “Cacao Bliss” which is a raw chocolate coconut butter (great heated up and drizzled on vanilla Haagen Daz) and my grocery store just started carrying this new peanut butter called Earth Balance that’s certified GMO free and made with organic extra virgin coconut oil (great on the Ezekiel sprouted grain cinnamon raisin english muffins). 🙂

• This reply was modified 12 years, 8 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.
• This reply was modified 12 years, 8 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Cyndi]

One Fish Two Fish, Red Fish Blue Fish……what? Lol! I won’t even begin to try to understand what Patty said! Lol!

FreeholdHound, I am so happy to hear that Harry is doing well on the raw. Good for you! & good for him! 🙂 The possibilities are endless!

[Cyndi]

LOL!! Patty, I’m “garlic challenged” too! Lmao!!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi mah4angel –

The recommended serving size for garlic is generally (I want to say I found these in Dr. Pitcairn’s book):

<10 lbs. 1/4 clove
10 – 20 lbs. 1/2 clove
20 – 40 lbs. 1 clove
40 – 50 lbs. 1 1/2 cloves
50 – 75 lbs. 2 cloves
75 – 100 lbs. 2 1/2 cloves
>100 lbs. 3 cloves

You want to give your dog at least two days off per week. You want to finely mince the garlic and let it sit for 15 minutes before feeding to release the allicin. Also, exercise caution if your dog is ever on cyclosporine or blood thinners. Garlic can increase the rate at which cyclosporine is broken down in the body and decrease its effectiveness and it may increase the efficiency of blood thinners. Aside from this, as long as you follow the appropriate dosage, garlic is a safe and beneficial addition to the dog’s diet. My girld get two cloves each three days per week.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 8 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.
• This reply was modified 12 years, 8 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[SandyandMila]

Great, thanks!

[theBCnut]

A small clove 3 or 4 days a week. Mince it right before you feed it. I actually give mine garlic every third day, but I may not be getting all the benefits. I’m garlic challenged. I can’t peel them. I have trouble chopping them. It’s really pathetic. I just a few days ago learned the Martha Stewart method of peeling garlic and I started throwing the cloves in my little chopper thingy, so now I’m not feeling so “special” anymore. Now I might start going with the recommended 3 or 4 days in a row then 3 or 4 days off.

[FreeholdHound]

Haha – try to read ^^that^^ 10x’s quickly!!! But I get it. I just assumed like the chicken feet – raw is fine with him. After a little over a year of dog food Hell with him if he likes it & it likes him I’m in heaven!

[mah4angel]

I’m going to start adding some minced garlic to Louie’s food. But I’m not sure how much to add. How much should I give him and how often? He weighs ten pounds.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 8 months ago by mah4angel.

[theBCnut]

In some premixes, they have an active dog guideline that is double the meat. If you are also feeding other balanced foods, I wouldn’t hesitate to go 75:25.

[FreeholdHound]

Update report: Harry is scarfing the beef mix/kibble with no ummm ugly output shall we say. He’s quite the happy hound. I know I can’t feed beef exclusively but here’s my problem – he tested quite reactive to turkey & chicken, & venison. A bit lower but still reactive to salmon & white fish. He does tolerate things like raw chicken feet & sardines so perhaps he does better with raw forms of things. I haven’t given him the turkey necks I ordered yet to see if they’ll set him off.
I’ll feed the beef for now to get us used to this but what to order next time? I will definitely pick up more of the beef grind and also the pork. I’m thinking I’ll take a chance and order the chicken grind as well to see how he handles it, but maybe I should pick up some ground chicken at supermarket and use that as a test first?

[SandyandMila]

When you use a premix base in your recipes do you follow the feeding guidelines or follow a particular ratio? I’ve been looking into maybe using THK Preference and if I go by there feeding guidelines I would be feeding about 50% meat to 50% Preference. Shouldn’t be closer to 75:25?

[Anonymous]

THanks! I will look into those! I definitely don’t want to feed him crap! 😉 I would love to just feed raw all the time, but currently its not doable for us. We are a pretty crunchy family, and rarely buy processed foods.. Dog food being the biggest processed purchase we make. I will keep an eye on the ingredients 🙂

THanks!

[Hound Dog Mom]

I twinelm –

If you scroll back a few pages there’s a link to a pdf file with an extensive list of grain-inclusive, grain-free and raw foods appropriate for large and giant breed growth. Two of the Nature’s Variety Instinct formulas are listed, I didn’t check into the 4Health grain-free line because it’s only rated 3.5 stars but I checked into the grain inclusive line and none of the foods are appropriate for large/giant breed growth. What breed is the puppy?

[twinelm]

I am contemplating co owning a very large breed show puppy 130# at maturity with a breeder who happens to work for a very large commercial dog food company. She says all of the other puppies who went to show homes also are feeding that company’s Large Breed Puppy formula (except one who feeds raw) which happens to have a 2.5 star rating here. I feed my rescues 4-Health grain free and have fed Nature’s Variety Instinct prior to that so I have for years had a “thing” for proper nutrition and LOVE LOVE LOVE this website. I am horrified at the thought of feeding that food to the pup for the next year or 18 months. Can you help me figure out what to feed? And maybe convince her it will be okay? Puppy is 3 months old now. Thanks,

[Hound Dog Mom]

It’d be worth asking – I’m sure they would save things like heart and liver for you anyways. However, I’d be hard to find someone willing to save the real goodies (i.e. the tripe, pancreas, spleen, etc.). When my dad got a deer last fall he told me I could have it and I asked if he could get me all the organs, glands and tripe and he told me if I wanted the tripe I’d have to go out to the woods and gut it myself. So I went out to the woods and gutted the deer myself. It really wasn’t that bad but then again I deal with extremely nasty and smell things on a daily basis for my job so there’s not much that grosses me out lol!

[Hound Dog Mom]

HI k9cancer –

Most dogs will overeat if given the chance – especially when they’re being fed a highly palatable diet (such as a raw diet). It’s very important to keep large and giant breed puppies lean during the growth phase as excess weight can increase the chances that the pup will develop an orthopedic condition. If his weight looks good do not feed him more. Just adjust his portions based on his weight – feed more if he looks too thin, less if he looks to heavy and keep portions as they are if his weight is healthy. The product packages are a good starting point for determining serving size but they aren’t always accurate – this is why it’s important to be constantly evaluating body condition. If he gets diarrhea again I’d recommend adding a spoonful of plain canned pumpkin and supplementing with probiotics, if he’s fine now you could also start adding a little plain yogurt or kefir to his meals daily to start building his gut strength. If you want to provide him with food that has a “crunchy” texture for his enjoyment I’d recommend opting for raw meaty bones rather than kibble. The raw meaty bones will provide him with crunching a chewing pleasure as well as dental benefits – you may also find that he feels more satisfied after eating RMBs. You could replace a few meals a week with RMBs such as turkey necks or chicken backs. You can feed the RMBs with a bit of boneless meat or whole offal (hearts, gizzards, livers, etc.) to lower the calcium to phosphorus ratio.

[k9cancer]

I have a 14 week old Pyrenees pup. He weighs 45 lbs and 2 weeks ago we put him on Raw food Primal and Instinct.

His gas and diarrhea problems have disappeared but he is eating me out of house and home.

The package says to feed him 4% of his weight or 2.6 lbs daily of raw food.

I feed him 2 patties in the morning, 1 at lunch and 2 at night.

I use Primal and Bravo because it has a 75% protein 25% vegetable mix.

If I feed him 2 patties at night he acts like he is starving.
I was feeding him grain free dry mix with the recommended calcium levels mentioned on this forum however he would not sleep well at night and had the runs or soft poo almost everyday.

My other dog eats kibble and if my Pup, Harry gets to it he gobbles it up.

He is growing like a weed and has gained the proper weight.
Im just wondering if I should add a little kibble but then I will have the digestion problems.

Any advice would be great. I am wondering if he is just a dog that wil eat/over eat if given the chance. I was also wondering if adding sweet potato or something ese might be better. Maybe he likes the crunch….sigh I sure am driving myself crazy huh?

Any advice would be great.
D

[Shawna]

Hi Lagotto,

We noticed (at the breeders) that she had excessive drinking and urination, as compared to her 5 siblings, when she was about 6 weeks old. She came to live with me when she was 9 weeks old. At about 4 weeks old she started failing to thrive — because she had a collapsing trachea and couldn’t get enough milk from her mommy. So the breeder put her on raw goat milk and egg whites, syringe fed every 2 to 4 hours, til she could eat on her own. She was weaned onto raw food — mainly hamburger, eggs, raw milk etc.

When she came to me I was making a home made raw diet for my current dogs and she went on that same diet. At her vet visit I told her holistic vet she urinated/drank a lot but her vet poo poo’d my concern and said puppies drink and therefore urinate more. She has bright eyes, she’s very smart, good coat quality etc. She’s a healthy puppy… In looking back I’m actually thankful that happened. Audrey continued on the homemade raw diet til her one year checkup where her bloodwork showed high bun and creatinine. I started tweaking her diet and would take her in every three months for additional bloodwork to see what the tweaking was doing. Turns out, the diet I had been feeding her all along was the best for her with one exception. To the diet I added a “prebiotic” and probiotics to help lower her BUN. Works like a charm..

Audrey continued on the homemade diet for several years but then I got too busy to keep up with homemade exclusively so I started incorporating commercial raw diets — Bravo as an example. Became busier yet and moved exclusively to commercial raw — Bravo, Darwins, Answers (recently started) and premixes like The Honest Kitchen Preference and Steve’s Premix with raw meats.. Audrey turned 7 years old the end of June and is still going strong. I have NOT lowered her protein. I have not lowered her phosphorus or made any other changes than adding prebiotic/probiotic and supplements. I use Garden of Life’s Primal Defense probiotic and Fiber35’s Sprinkle Fiber as the prebiotic. A really good prebiotic, made specifically for dogs, can be found on Dr. Mercola’s website under the “Pets” link and then under “Products”.

I would NOT regularly feed her kibble if I was paid to do so. In my opinion, kibble will cause a much earlier death in a kidney disease dog.. Kibble is a POOR QUALITY food for kd dogs/cats—even the best kibbles on the market… At the very least, feed a canned diet. If you can, feed raw or lightly cooked. I also don’t feed Audrey any grains. IF you are going to feed grains it needs to be either sushi rice (aka glutinous rice) or cream of wheat (or farina). These two grains are low phosphorus. All other grains have higher phosphorus and don’t add anything to the diet that can’t be found in a more species appropriate food.

You also want to feed higher fat foods — ditch the lean ground beef.. Feed the highest fat foods you can get (unless she is showing signs of pancreatitis). Fat adds calories without phosphorus—adding organic coconut oil is a good idea too. Protein is NOT damaging to the kidneys and only needs to be reduced to prevent symptoms of uremia in the later stages of the disease — such as vomiting or depression. Audrey has NEVER to date ate low protein.

Let her have ALL the water she wants. Audrey used to sleep in the water bowl when it was empty — she was that obsessed with water and, I’m guessing, desperately trying to tell me she needed some. She started this, sleeping in water dish, at the breeders. I kept potty pads ALL over the house for her. I was lucky in that she used them. During the night I keep her in a 4 foot by 4 foot enclosure we made (for our foster puppies). It was made out of wood and plastic chicken wire. I had her water bowl, her kennel, a blanket outside the kennel and a potty pad with LOTS of newspapers under it — she would fill a potty pad to the point of leaking during the night. As she got older she was able to hold it. Since about three months of age she has slept with me in my bed at nights.

Darwins now has a kidney diet.. I haven’t seen it yet but I do think it is worth checking out. Urban Wolf has a premix designed for kd dogs that can be added to raw or home cooked meats. And I think Grandma Lucy’s has a lower phosphorus premix that is also suitable for dogs needing their phos lowered..

Also consider adding a whole food B and C vitamin to the diet. These two vitamins are “water soluble” and because of the excessive urination can become depleted if not supplemented. I use Standard Process Cataplex B and C. I also give Audrey a whole food multi as a precaution. I use Standard Process Catalyn. Standard Process also makes a whole food supplement specifically for dogs with kidney disease. It’s called Canine Renal Support — I HIGHLY recommend using it. I also give liver support also by Standard Process — Canine Hepatic Support. The liver can become overstressed in a kd dog.

I HIGHLY recommend only using reverse osmosis or distilled along with a mineral water like Evian. Mineral waters (only those lower in sodium) have shown some positive benefits to kidney patients.

Also try to eliminate as many chemical toxins from your house as possible. I was already living in a relatively toxin free environment but I had to eliminate my Swiffer mop, candles ets. These have chemicals in them that the kidneys have to filter — putting an extra strain on them OR adding to the blood poisoning when the kidneys can’t filter as well. DO NOT use flea/tick or heartworm meds on her. And DO NOT vaccinate her. Audrey has only had one set of shots (given by the breeder before I got her) and has NEVER had a rabies shot. She was diagnosed before getting the shot and I was able to get a lifelong exemption for her in my state.

As mentioned, Audrey turned 7 last month and is not on any medications (no phosphorus binders, no sub-q fluids etc) just the supplements.

I don’t use it but I know others that have had positive results with the herbal tinctures from Five Leaf Pharmacy. http://caninekidneyhealth.com/ I would NOT follow their diet though… 🙂 http://caninekidneyhealth.com/

I would also highly recommend reading the material on Mary Straus’ dog aware website. This is the site where I got most of my knowledge / as well as courage to continue feeding Audrey a high protein raw diet. She has some EXCELLENT info on the site — when to feed low protein, when to lower phosphorus and how much (phosphorus is an essential mineral – lowering it too much too early can have unintended consequences), which foods are lower in phosphorus etc. http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidney.html

Your puppy can still have a fantastic quality of life.. Learn as much as you can, stay positive and enjoy her fully!!!!!

If you ever want to chat offsite, I can be reached at shawnadfaemail @ yahoo. com (take out the spaces–they are included here to prevent robot spammers from sending me junk mail).. 🙂

[Anonymous]

We just recently “adopted” (adopted from the people who bought him from a breeder, as life changes happened) a Saint Berdoodle puppy, Tobi. He is now about 8 months old, we’ve had him for about 6-7 weeks.
He was on Purina Puppy Chow when we got him 😛
Locally we have Feeders Supply pet store, they carry lots of brands, including lots of holistic.
I picked out Professionals Large Breed Puppy.
I have 2 main concerns for feeding Tobi.. Nutrition, I want to feed him the best quality food I can afford. Cost, we are a one income family, with 2 kids and 2 dogs. I cannot afford to pay $50-60 for 25lbs of dog food.

Tobi did great with transitioning to the Professionals, but is now having loose stool (for about a week now). He still eats fine, and acts normal.

Im thinking of trying something different. And after reading several pages on this thread, Im seeing that perhaps I don’t need to be buying “large breed puppy” specifically?

I also have a Aussie mix senior dog (11yrs old), with no age ailments so far. Currently she is on Nature’s Recipe Senior, because it was at Big Lots for $30/25lbs . She is a picky eater, and seems to like it well.

I would love to find something they can both be on eventually? Or even now? Without breaking the bank.. 40-50lb bags would be great!

Currently Tobi is eating about 5 cups a day of the Professionals LBP… that bag is emptying fast!

This fall we plan to switch them to a 50/50 raw/kibble diet (with more research first) once hubby is able to get an extra couple of deer and turkey.

Any suggestions on brands to try, that are at least corn free, but I would prefer grain free, and are not going to kill my budget! 🙂

[Ambystoma]

I am getting a GSP puppy and have narrowed down the foods, or so I thought.

I think we are going to start him on Fromm Gold Puppy, but I like the look of Taste of the Wild as well for variety once he is out of the puppy stage. However I saw Native being recommended for this specific breed. Of course, I will probably give variety in the form of cans, fresh, and perhaps raw later like I do with my beagle-terrier mutt (he’s on Fromm now but has eaten Wellness and Blue Buffalo as well).

For a puppy, would you stick with Fromm Gold or go ahead and do TOTW or Native Puppy or something else? I can’t quite afford to do all fresh with 2 dogs, so I’m looking for dry with cans/fresh/raw as a supplement.

Thanks!

[Lagotto]

Hi Shawna, my 10 weeks old Lagotto has just been diagnosed with serious kidneys problems her BUN is way off chart her urine is almost as clear as water . She drinks over a liter of water a day. I have her for 21/2 weeks she hardly gains any weight. She is taller but very thin. The breeder offered to take her back and put her down. Apart from excessive drinking and urinating and not put on weight she is full of energy and really playful.I decided to keep her,the vet didn’t recommend any diet plan for her just told her to let she eats normal food, she eats puppies musli mix with raw met and let nature take it course. Her musli comprise of roll oats, dehydrate pea, carrot, bone meal plus all essential vitamins and minerals. Since she has been diagnosed I stop feeding her those food and go on low protein, low phosphorus, low sodium,. She got her appetite back with the meal I made which is 1 cup cooked white rice with one whole egg, two eggs whites, a spoonful of low fat ground beef. Cook in 1 Tb coconut oil. I sprinkle one capsule of fish oil, and grind 900mg of calcium carbonate to it. She has been eating this food for 3 days. Her weight is up for almost 200 g. I am not sure this diet is good enough for her growth. I ask the vet or phosphorus binder and start to sprinkle on her food. The vet now recommend pediatric junior digest & dental 29. I mixed a little of the dry food into home cooked . Her water intake is almost double her usual high intake. Your Audrey story is really inspiring . What do you feed Audrey? Home cooked or dry food.what is your strategy with Toilet train?

Many thanks, Lagotto

[mah4angel]

Hello all!

I’ll admit to being woefully ignorant and making bad and uniformed decisions for my Louie plenty of times (i.e. thinking that raw would be bad for him, thinking that kibble is better for cleaning teeth, etc.), but I’m afraid that choosing Banfield and their Optimum Wellness Plan might have been the worst decision yet…

I just feel that they make up for the savings in office visits, etc. by hiking up the prices for every single other thing NOT covered on the plan. For instance, I’ve been wanting to get Louie neutered. It would cost me about $400 at Banfield to get him neutered. OUCH. They’re also more expensive for typical grooming. A nail grind costs about $5 more at Banfield than at the ADJOINING Pet Smart Grooming salon, same with anal gland expression, etc.

I had Louie on a HW preventative from another vet (Quadriguard) which they had never heard of. Fine, that is 100% a-okay. There are so many HW pills out there, I’m sure, and I’m sure there’s just no way that you’d know the names and properties of every single one of them. BUT they clearly never looked it up or asked me to take it in so they could see what it was/what it covered. There are wormers in Quadriguard already but they kept having me give him wormers (after him testing negative for heartworms). They also kept asking me if I wanted to put him on a HW preventative even though I’d told every single one of the vet techs and both of the vets that I already have him protected.

I’ve read a lot recently about how people find Banfield as a corporation to be sub-par as far as veterinary work is concerned and that they’re quite money-grubbing and a total rip-off. I’m starting to see a little bit of this in them but I DO like my vet and Louie seems to really like her. She’s very kind, approachable, and seems to have her heart in the right place. I don’t know, though, that she’s technically great at her job, purely from a medical standpoint. I really don’t know that I know how to tell, though… she does seem to be more than willing and ready to hand out medications (free or not) for Louie and I don’t know that I like that.

Do any of you have good or bad experiences with Banfield? I just can’t help but notice that reviews by their customers are simply overwhelmingly bad. I don’t know, maybe I’m just being paranoid and seeing things that aren’t there because of the negativity from others.

I’d love to hear your feedback! I’m trying to find a holistic vet, but it’s proving to be kind of a pain in the butt (my dog gets incredibly carsick so commuting to the vet is a hard one-whereas PetSmart is within walking distance from my house). Thanks guys!

[katj813]

I know I may not receive specifics but I find info on the web too general so here’s a few specifics on my dog:
He’s an 11 year old terrier mix @19lbs. He has two heart conditions treated with Enalapril and fish oil. He has occasional arthritis in his back legs which is treated by dog aspirin as needed. He has an activity level between low and medium. Some days he has bursts of energy and likes visits to the dog park but the high energy is limited and he mostly sleeps. I currently have him on taste of the wild because while I do my best to get the best food I can, I have a college student budget.

I want to make sure my dog is getting the nutrients he needs to stay healthy so what sort of things should I look for in his food to meet his requirements and do you think TotW is covering it? I don’t have the time for raw and home made diets so I want to stick to dry food, he gets wet mixed in but it’s only for supplemental feeding so I don’t rely on it for nutrients even though he gets at least some from it. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[NectarMom]

I could ask them if they would save the organs for my mixes but normally they gut all the insides but being my hubby is boss man maybe they will do it just for me LOL. Won’t hurt to ask and I will have my hubby do just that.