[Sue’s Zoo]

Sharon, Just reading through posts. Congrats to you and Mystery!! I’m maybe a week or so ahead of you. And it’s starting to get easier. This site, plus the books Patty mentions above, are great support and encouragement. Please keep me posted on your progress, challenges etc and how you address them.

Seems like my biggest challenges, other than stressing over getting the right amounts for my particular pups, is thawing time and cleanup. If I haven’t planned ahead I won’t have the right items thawed so that I can put meals together. And I’ve washed my hands so many times within a short period that they are incredibly red and raw. I got some rubber gloves but then I’m taking them off frequently and it’s a hassle too. I keep telling myself that once I get a good system down most of these issues will work themselves out. Oh and my first MPC order wasn’t as complete as it needed to be so I’m running to the store for missing items.

But my pups are in heaven!! Which makes it all worthwhile.

[RescueDaneMom]

Lablubber-

I just wanted to say that I didn’t intentionally ignore your post. I tend not to respond unless I feel 100% sure in the advice I can offer. I personally didn’t go through the LBP phase. I adopted my Great Dane when he was 2. I feed a combination of raw and dehydrated but I know that not everyone is comfortable in feeding raw. I fed my boy kibble for 5 years before I started learning about raw.

I think that coconut oil, flax, and fish oil are great supplements to be adding right now. I don’t think it’s wise to give a ton of supplements to puppies right off the bat. Those 3 though are great. The only other thing you might want to consider is digestive enzymes and probiotics if you notice your pup needs a little extra digestive support. I give them to my dog because he’s older. You can also give a little bit of kefir. You can find it in the grocery store. It has 10 strains of probiotics. It’s much better than yogurt. You’d have to feed way more yogurt to get the same probiotic benefit as kefir. Also, I too switch off fish oil with krill oil. I would definitely continue to do that. They don’t need as much krill oil as fish oil because it is more bioavailable so you’ll want to watch your dosage. Here is info on krill oil from Dr. Becker: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/krill-oil-for-pets.aspx

Here is an article from Dr. Becker on using Tumeric: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/11/12/turmeric.aspx She provides dosage at the bottom. “Small to medium-sized dogs can be given 250 milligrams twice a day, and large to giant breeds should get 500 milligrams two to three times a day.” Here is an article on coconut oil if you haven’t seen it already: http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/the-health-benefits-of-coconut-oil/

If I were feeding kibble from HDM’s list, my top picks would be Earthborn Holistic and Annamaet. I have fed both to my dog and he did really well on them. I haven’t used it but I like the look of Dr. Tim’s. I also used The Honest Kitchen. I’ve been using for almost 6 years now. It’s a dehydrated food that you rehydrate with water before serving. It’s not raw because it has been heated during the dehydration process, though at a lot lower temperature than what kibble is exposed to when being extruded. You can use it as a topper if you want. The Thrive and Love varieties are complete and balanced with the correct Ca/P ratio for a LBP.

[Robin Norton]

Hi,

We’re running a survey on pet food and are especially interested in the views of dog (and cat) owners whose pets have sensitive stomachs!

The survey link is here: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/DJS72CS

… everyone who completes the survey will be entered into a prize draw to win £100!

Many thanks for your help!

Robin.

[Sharon Buchanan]

BernerdAd ~
Just wanted to ditto Patty’s recommendation on pumpkin. It isn’t something I care to eat, but I keep a single can in my pantry just in case. When I have to open it up, another can goes on the grocery list.

Lablubber ~
I can’t remember if I read anywhere the age of your Lab. There’s a number of articles that HDM posted at the very beginning of this topic that address the correct percentage of calcium for large breed puppies. The figures vary somewhat, I chose to take the advice of Dr. Baker and keep Mystery’s calcium nearer to .80 percent. (My Mystery is an English Creme Golden Retriever – healthy adult weight will be about 85 pounds.)

I hadn’t found this forum when I was researching food so I ended up creating my own chart. I looked at calcium percentage as well as ingredients. I wasn’t going to feed junk (by-products, un-named meat meals, synthetic supplements, controversial ingredients – canola oil for one), no matter what the calcium percentage was. But I also wasn’t going to feed what I thought was the best kibble (no preservatives, no grains), if the calcium was higher than I believed it should be. I would have like to have been feeding Mystery Orijen or Acana but their calcium max for LBP is 1.5%. Though they say they try to keep it to the minimum 1%, they’d be okay feeding my dog nearly twice what he should’ve gotten. In the end, I chose Innova LBP kibble.

A simple explanation of the problem with too much calcium is, that a LBP less than six months old does not have the ability to process excess calcium properly. Too much calcium gets deposited on the outside of the bones which then causes bone disease. Again, this is the simple explanation – try reading all the articles HDM posted, some of them are a little more technical, but you’ll learn a lot from them. And don’t expect your vet to be familiar with the LBP study or any of the reports from that study. My vet said he wasn’t sure if he’d read any of them when I first mentioned diet concerns – and tried to make me feel like I couldn’t possibly know what I was talking about.

Back to the age of your Lab. Once a puppy has reached six months of age, he is able to process calcium better but even afterward, calcium still needs to be lower than what a small or medium size puppy can handle. I moved Mystery to Orijen LBP kibble just last month when he was 9 months old. To address your concern regarding transitioning foods, when Mystery’s Innova got down to the last pound, I added a pound of Orjen to it. When that was gone a few days later, it was all Orijen.

As far as expense goes, I considered Innova to be an average priced kibble – compared to Purina, Iams, Science Diet, or any other junk food. Orijen, on the other hand is going to cost more but is worth it – as far as kibble goes. Innova did have a recall last year at the time that I was feeding it to Mystery. I was forced to switch him over to Wellness – the next lowest calcium percentage, but I cringed at every meal because chicken meal is their third ingredient rather than first, and they use Sodium Selenite instead of Selenium Yeast. It looks like Innova has changed their LBP recipe – I don’t know what I’d do now if my only option to feed was kibble to a LBP.

BTW, when Innova had their recall, I had no choice but to switch Mystery to Wellness – without any transition. And my cats have never needed transitioning as I’ve upgraded their food. Obviously, common sense must rule if you see a problem cropping up because of the change.

I have to agree with Patty on Blue. In addition to their minimum calcium percentage being too high, they have three grains in their top five ingredients, they add chicken FLAVOR (why do they need flavoring?), sodium selenite and caramel which is used to make you, the purchaser feel good about the color of their garbage, as if your dog thinks caramel colored food tastes better than beige food. I also don’t like seeing oil of rosemary so high on their ingredient list since we had a Golden that had seizures (if your dog doesn’t have seizures rosemary oil/extract might not be a problem).

In retrospect, I should have started feeding Mystery raw when we first brought him home at 10 weeks instead of waiting until now when he is 10 months old. You will absolutely learn much here at dogfoodadvisor and especially in the forums. I would also suggest, if you have to continue feeding kibble, go to truthaboutpetfood.com and sign up for her free newsletter. She’s also on Facebook if you prefer. I will say though, that I credit Susan Thixton (truthaboutpetfood), with my decision to pursue a raw diet. Of course, it was here at the forums that I received the most encouragement to switch.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Sharon Buchanan.

[Shasta220]

But this is great you’re doing raw! Like I say, I hope you can get a good routine going for your dogs. If I ever get the resources, money, and space to keep a freezer-ful of raw meat, I’m definitely switching my dogs to raw. I’ve seen incredible results from a properly balanced raw diet… I have even read of a Great Dane (lifespan is usually around 9-12yrs) who was fed raw his whole life, and lived all the way to 16y.o. and healthy to the end!

[Shasta220]

I completely feel you about being scared he might get injured. My dog, Otto, was quite the gulper. When he was only about 3mo old, he got a hold of a raw chicken bone (it was a leg bone, he had found the cat’s dinner…). I saw him take it, I ran over to him and told him to leave it (yup, this was before he knew the command “leave it”), but it was too late, he had broken it into 2 pieces then swallowed them. I thought for sure he wouldn’t make it through the night, but we kept an eye on him and he was completely fine.

The above suggestions to help with gulping are great. My current gulper, Loki, will get any of his raw meat frozen. He still eats it very fast, but at least he breaks it into kibble-sized pieces, as he doesn’t like swallowing large frozen things… Brrrrr!

I’ve never done a real raw diet with my dogs, I’ve only read the books and web pages. I hope you can get a good routine going with your guy, and I’m sure he’ll remember to chew soon 😉

[USA]

Hi Molzy

There will always be a risk in feeding a dog raw meaty bones. No one can guarantee you that a bone will never cause harm to your dog. Raw feeders want to feed their dog a similar diet to what wolves eat in the wild, believing it is the most natural and species appropriate.

One thing that I think is often overlooked is that when wolves consume bones they also consume the fur of the animal they are eating. The bone usually comes out the other end of the wolf wrapped in fur. The fur protects the inside of the wolf from being damaged as the bone makes its way through its digestive system.

For the gulping you could try feeding a large piece of frozen meat. The piece should be bigger than your dog’s head. This makes it almost impossible for your dog to just gulp down. Being frozen also makes it difficult to just swallow and could encourage your dog to chew. As long as you are able to take the piece away from your dog before it becomes small enough to swallow or when your dog has eaten enough, a frozen piece of meat larger than your dog’s head is an option.

Another option is raw boneless meat. This method has no danger of your dog being injured from bones. In this method you would have to add a calcium supplement to replace the calcium in the bones.

Reading a book like See Spot Live Longer (more geared to the beginner) or Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet (a little more advanced) both by Steve Brown will help you in preparing nutritionally balanced home prepared raw or cooked meals for your dogs.

I am not a fan of using a metal vice grips or a metal tube to stop your dog from gulping. I am worried that your dog might injure himself by chomping down on them or by trying to swallow the vice grips.

Good Luck with Quincy and LoJack!!!!

[Molzy]

Thanks patty! I can go buy some vice grips tomorrow…he did chomp them down, I guess I was just upset he didn’t chew more, which is probably against a dogs nature! I’m calmed down some now, it’s been four hours and he’s been fine so far.

We are gonna start our other dog, LoJack (German shorthair mix) on raw as well, my boyfriend is now convinced this is the best choice for all our animals (our cat has been on a manufactured raw for almost two years to keep urinary tract infections and ear infections in check).

Thanks for your help!

[theBCnut]

Hi Lablubber

My best suggestion for a food to feed would be to take the list with you to the stores around you and see what is available, where, for how much. Find a few that interest you and come back and read the reviews on them. If you still are interested pick up a few different foods and try them, one after another. Take notes on how your dog does on them, cross off any that he didn’t do well on, and go pick a few more to try. When you have a few different proteins from a few different brands, you will be feeding your dog the best you can without doing canned, dehydrated, freeze dried, fresh, or raw.

As for specific brands to start with, I prefer Nature’s Variety Instinct, Annamaet, By Nature, and Wellness.

[Molzy]

Well, I gave Quincy his first meal of raw tonight, a chicken leg quarter (on sale for 59 cents a pound this week)! I tried to hold onto it to teach him to CHEW his food, but was only partially successful. I am now freaking out because I just let my baby eat a chicken bone! Trying to ease myself by watching YouTube videos of raw fed dogs, but all the videos appear to be chewing more than he did. Any advice? Is he still a candidate for feeding raw?

At this point I’m planning on keeping him on honest kitchen for breakfast, and raw for dinner while I learn more and become more comfortable with balancing the diet (I know I can’t do chicken quarters forever!). But I need a little reassurance that my beloved dog isn’t going to bleed to death tonight because I let him eat bone!

I’m watching him like a hawk for any signs of discomfort (kind of difficult since he has digestive issues anyways), but so far he’s just running between me and the kitchen looking for more chicken and playing with his toys…

[Lablubber]

Hi KMS

Thank you once again for your reply on the vaccinations and yes i know this is a nutrition forum for large breed dogs and I have most of the tinme been talking about it buit it just came to mind while I was typing so I asked anyway, since all of your longtimers seem so well versed and have educated yourself in the finer points of truly raising your dog right… So thank you for your reply…. It is very much appreciated…

Then Patty, thank you also for your reply…. I know that written word is the poorest form of communication there is and you grossly misunderstood my intentions in my words because if you have read my other posts, I happen to think all of you are very informative and also very wise in your area of expertise. I actually switched off of the dog food my breeder had my pup on because of a post I think Hound Dog Mom made and I don’t know where in the world off of here that I got the idea to use Blue but it has made a world of difference in his coat, his stool conformity and he has yet to have the first issue with the Chicken and Rice Lg. Breed Puppy Food.

As far as the raw diet goes, I have no issue with anyone using it and believe me had I not seen first hand several issues myself with it, then I assure you for my pup, I would doing whatever it takes to have him on it and besides even the people I knew that had the issue may have not used the raw diet in the prop[er way or had the strict regime of ingredients like you guys do.

Believe me if I didn’t agree with anything you sauid or thought that you didn’t know what you were talking about….i sure would not have changed my whole way of thinking and I would still be using milk replacer in my puppy chow and facing hip or elbow issues down the road.

I came here to be educated by people like you and hound dog mom and all of the year of wisdom that is formed and madeup by in this forum. And then boom you hit me with another shot in your last reply and told me Blue had too much calcium as well and I just finished a 20 day transition over to it for my dog.

I swear someone on here told me it was one of the top 25 foods to feed a large breed puppy. So excuse me if I upset you by using the poorest form of communication there is because there was nothing intended wrongly for any of you. Because I am disciple of all of you and intend to remain so if you guys don’t shun me out for poor wording.

So with that said… Can I just plainly, country boy ask you what you would feed a labrador retriever pup that means the world to you if you don’t feel comfortable with going the raw way just yet?

One other thing I would also like to ask about supplimentation is with all of the stomach cancer issue that so many older dogs are facing… Has any of you ever added Tumeric or Curcumin to your dogs diet because I can tell you for a fact and even MD Anderson Hospital finally admitted that they have found that it actually kills cancer cells and then acts as an outright cancer fighting addition to your diet… My boss had Multiple Myeloma (Bone Cancer) and he was in stage 4 when they found it and then through nutritional changes and lots of prayer, he is a documented walking miracle. Needless to say his whole staff now takes tumeric/curcumin everyday… And my pup get a 1/2 capsule everyday as well, until I find out it is bad thing for him which I don’t think I will from what I have read. In fact I am going to write Texas A&M Vet. School to make sure that it will not and if not what dosage I could give him to be a correct amount for his system. I personally think it will make him cancer immune in his old age. I have had skin cancers on my arm dissolve and dissappear after just a few month of taking 3 capsules a day of it every day.

So I am sorry if I ruffled anyone up because I truly did not mean to do so because I respect and enjoy reading every single thing you guys write. I read it every day and every night religiously. I just thought it was kindly strange that everyone was replying to all the posts done after mine and not a thing toward mine at all… You know what assuming does but anything I aksed is asked geniunnely because I don’t know and really want someone more educated and wise to step up and help me out… This puppy means the world to me and so I only want the best for him even if I have to swallow a lot of stuff that I didn’t know I was doing wrong on.

So thanks for your reply and I look forward tolearning much more from all of you on this forum.

The Lablubber

So thank you for all of your help and wisdom and please continue what you are doing for all of us newbies to the real world of pet nutrition.

[Sue’s Zoo]

Found this raw feeding calculator on rawpaws.org website. Looks nice. Would like opinion for other, more experienced/knowledgeable raw feeders please. Also if anyone has personal experience with rawpaws.org.

http://www.rawpaws.org/display/main/Raw+Feeding+Calculator

Thanks!

[Sharon Buchanan]

Marie ~
Sorry about that – “he” would be the person (I suppose it could be a “she”), from Hare-Today that posted the two week feeding schedule.

Patty ~
I went over to MPC and not only do they have links to a plethora of information on raw feeding but, though I didn’t do a line-by-line comparison, it looks like their prices are better than Hare-Today. I didn’t take into account shipping costs so I’ll have to take a look at that. I had some problem with the shopping cart at Hare-Today – if I didn’t keep adding stuff it would completely empty the cart after just a few minutes of inactivity. Aack! I don’t shop well when I’m being rushed.

I did read about the percentages in the Raw Feeding 101 article from MPC. Thankfully, Mystery is already well beyond needing 10% of his body weight at nearly 60lbs – full grown will be 85lbs. I also appreciated the Raw Feeding Calculator link. What a great resource that is. I’m going to start Mystery at 4% of his body weight – he’s been on a growth spurt for a couple weeks where is body has gotten longer, typical of an English Creme, but his waist isn’t keeping up. I can’t see his ribs but I can feel them more than I would like.

I’m going to order a fridge for the garage this afternoon. I thought about just getting a freezer but with our house full of kids and grandchildren this past Christmas (and hopefully our great grandson and his mom next year), I figure I can use the extra fridge space too.

I’m also headed to Sam’s to pick up some whole chicken, just to start Mystery on an ingredient he’s already been getting for training treats. I’ll feed him his kibble in the morning until it’s gone and chicken in the evenings. The fridge/freezer should be here by Wednesday and that will give me time to order some essentials as well as try to find a co-op of folks in my area who might be buying in bulk.

OMG! We’re actually doing this!!! Yaay for Mystery!

[JeffreyT]

I was recently turned onto Harmless Harvest raw organic coconut water (refrigerated section Whole Foods). Best coconut water I’ve tried, tastes like it’s fresh from the coconut. We give it to our maltese by dropper so it doesn’t get on their beards and generally give no more than 3 dropper-fulls a few times a week, and more often in summer (although they always want more 🙂
I also do the same when I give them green juices but give about 4-8 dropper-fulls (if that’s a word?) since it has less sugar.
I think a healthier option to plain coconut water is fermented coconut water (refrigerated section Whole Foods) but it’s definitely not as delicious as the Harmless Harvest.
PS Coco Libre Organic coconut water is the next best tasting coconut water I’ve tried and less money than Harmless Harvest. Both brands are 100% coconut water.
Great website and forum, I’ve learned a lot. Thanks.

[Rebecca]

Hi, I used to feed my mine Tiki Cat (the chicken formulas) before I switched her to raw. You could try it for your cat. It’s very palatable and uses good ingredients. It’s pretty expensive however, so you might want to find another long-term solution. You could also try mixing it with the Natural Balance.

[Shasta220]

Bones do an amazing job, yes, but I will always brush my dogs’ teeth. Cassy had chews/bones her whole life, but I didn’t brush her teeth enough and she needed one pulled. Then our cat is on the raw diet, so she consumes whole bones daily, and she got an infected tooth at age 5.

Certainly though, if brushing is difficult to do, then bones make a close second for good dental care 🙂

[InkedMarie]

Sharon,
Sorry, I’m a little lost. Who is “he”? I’ve never fed raw to a puppy but an adult is usually 2-3%.
I just ordered 42 pounds of goat and 13 pounds of turkey from Hare Today yesterday!

[Sharon Buchanan]

Well, I’m now frozen to my sofa. I went over to Hare-Today and decided I’d just price out what he says he feeds his dog over a two week period. First off, he says a puppy should eat 10% of their weight, I’d read 4% elsewhere – is there a difference between raw and rendered? I decided to start with 4% – about 2.5 lbs per day. So, into the cart went everything he’s feeding in 5 lbs quantities so I’d have an idea what it would cost to feed Mystery for four weeks. YIKES!

Those fur balls are starting to bother me.

[kms]

PattyVaughn –

Thanks for the feedback! If Augie has consistently good stool for a month, I’m hoping that’s when I can start to get him on a better diet. The vet wanted me to go 10 weeks – she even suggested keeping him on RC for the rest of his life – which left me kinda speechless.

So now I’m trying to figure out what next. Elimination diet or Limited Ingredient food? If elimination diet, what do I add first? How much? and for how long? I’m assuming 1st thing to add should be a protein. Should it be one he never had – or can I start with chicken? (foods he had so far contained chicken, salmon, turkey, rabbit – but we’re not sure if any of those were truly a problem since he also had worms, bacteria and several doses of antibiotics). Would I give it just once (with 1 meal) and wait a few days to see what happens – or give it with every meal for several days and then see? He’s 50 lbs, 8 mo, male, intact, Weim.

Sharon –

Thank you for posting the info about the the shampoo – this is the first time I heard that. I used Allergroom by Virbac for many years on our Lab (who we lost to cancer @ 9 yo) and have been using it on our Weim pup also. So, needless to say, we’re now looking for another shampoo. Maybe Mercola Organic? Pricey, but I trust their products.

Thanks so much to everyone. This site has helped me be a much better mom. Hoping to eventually do a rotation diet and maybe even feed raw down the road. Although, the Internal Medicine specialist who diagnosed Augie with IBD said that she doesn’t think a “rotation diet” is going to be possible. Hope that’s not true.

[theBCnut]

Hi Lablubber

Maybe nobody responded to your posts because we don’t all want to come across as negative. I couldn’t care less about your gender and frankly, found it insulting that you thought it would matter, in any way.

The food you are choosing to feed your dog is too high in calcium for a large breed dog and is not recommended, in spite of it’s name. That’s what this whole thread is about. Think about choosing a food from this list.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?srcid=0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk&pid=explorer&efh=false&a=v
The oils you are adding are fine.

I would consider your plans for vaccination to be overkill, by now either the pup should be immune or it has an immune system problem and no amount of vaccinating will fix that. The Lepto vaccine doesn’t cover all the different serovars out there and so is considered unreliable, but using it does come with risks, so if your vet recommends against it even though you have expressed concerns, I would listen to your vet. He sounds like he may actually be a good one rather than one that just wants more of your money.

I don’t care if you don’t want to feed raw or rotate your foods, that’s entirely up to you, but when people ask us what we think is best, we would be remiss if we didn’t tell them what we think is best and maybe even share why. To me, the arguments are compelling, but then, I’ve had plenty of dogs with GI issues and food intolerances.

BTW, none of your questions actually had anything to do with large breed nutrition, not that we stay on topic here, but that may also be why no one answered. It’s not their area of knowlege.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Sue ~

I appreciate the update and the sources for food. I’ve actually had a MyPetCarnivore tab open for the last few days as I’ve done research on different foods. Patty also mentioned the HareToday site, which I have been to as well. One of the things I have been looking at in addition to quality is location. I’m in NC so obviously, I’m looking for companies closest to me to be sure I not only get a better shipping rate but more important, that the food has less time to thaw in transit.

I’m determined to order some raw today – and let the fur balls roll like tumbleweeds around the house another day. I’m headed to Costco tomorrow so I’ll pick up some whole chicken.

I’m so glad you signed up for the conference. I think one of the best things lacking in a web conference though, is the ability to network and discuss topics/concerns/issues between sessions. We’ll have to compare notes afterward!

I did make a connection with a gal that delivers food in our area but the list of foods she sent me was ginormous and I didn’t have time to pick through all the food types and brands. Now that I’m [somewhat] armed with better food brand I’ll do a search on her list for the ones I have a little more confidence in.

I’m sorry to hear about Loki. I don’t know anything about pulmonary stenosis in dogs. Is this inherent in his breed? When we got Sunset, we didn’t know much about genetics, she ended up having double-hip surgery before she was two. It cost us over $10K. Before deciding on Mystery, I spent months boning up on things like COIs and US and international codes for hip, eyes and shoulder coding. And now I’m doing everything I can to make sure Mystery has every opportunity to live as long as possible.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Inked Marie ~

Mystery currently gets his kibble inside the crate. I don’t close the door but the food and water stay inside while he stands half in and half out. I did try to give him a RMB inside the crate but he wasn’t interested in it until I opened the door and he climbed out with it. I left him in the crate for about 20 minutes but he just laid down and fell asleep. The crate is 42″, anything larger and I’ll have to add a new room to the house. 🙂

I will definitely continue to feed him inside his crate when we make the jump to raw. It’s just those RMB are going to have to be outdoor treats only until I can get him to stay in one place inside the house. We’ll get there.

Thanks for the advice.

[Sue’s Zoo]

Sharon,

Dr. Frick had good general information but she doesn’t have a dog and isn’t doing it so not much in the way of practical advice. She did add a few supplements because one of my pups, Loki, has pulmonary stenosis so she gave some things to help his heart. She is looking over the actual meal plans and going to provide recommendations. She thought it all looked very good (I brought in a few of HDM’s meal plans from early in the Feeding Raw topic. She did say that it would be better to customize the herb and fruit supplements based on what each dog needs. And we discussed ways to do that. I’m going to take all the actual ones I use in and go over them with her next week.

I signed up for the Dogs Naturally conference. Thanks so much for providing that info. I’m looking forward to it and wish it was sooner! Not sure where you live. I placed my first order thru MyPetCarnivore.com. They make deliveries to various areas once a month, plus you can get orders delivered UPS but only when desperate as shipping for that type of delivery is expensive. I also found another place called rawpaws.org. They also run deliveries to several areas but I think both of these are primarily midwest US. Another frequently mentioned on this site is hare-today.com I haven’t looked into their shipping fees etc. I know they do ship fedex and UPS but no idea what it costs. I’ve also been able to find chicken backs and gizzards at Whole Foods; gizzards, liver, turkey necks at a local grocery store.

I will go through more of my info from Dr. Frick once I’ve had some time to digest and after we go over some specific diets etc next week.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Sue ~

I wish there was a holistic vet near me but the closest one is in Charlotte – 2 hours away, so I would definitely be interested in what yours says about the raw diet.

I think a lot of my hesitation comes from not knowing exactly where to get fresh raw food. I initially thought that if I went to the grocery store I would be feeding Mystery human grade food. But then you have to find organic, grass fed, etc., etc. Of course, there are no chicken backs in the meat department, though I did find turkey necks. My local store said they could order some tripe but when that came in it was white, processed tripe – no good.

I’m going to try to find a local butcher, but how I’ll ever know if I’m getting quality meats. Oh, genius that I am – I just realized I could get a whole chicken and cut it up myself. Cows, maybe not.

I like your idea of a washable rug and towel for RMB eating but right now I can’t keep Mystery on an 8’x6′ piece of linoleum. I’m going to try some “place” training on his crate tray to see if I can get him to stay in an area that he’s familiar with – except without the bars. I can add a towel to that but like our other Golden did, Mystery thinks a towel is for rolling around on.

I look forward to hearing about your visit with Dr. Frick.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Patty ~

You know, way back when, I remember giving our Sunset the DinOvite but stopped when we moved to Prague. I’d completely forgotten about that.

I did call Primal to talk with them about their food and was thaaaat close to placing an order until I looked at the Primal thread on dogfoodadvisor. What a catastrophe, wading through all that. In the end, I decided not to order any – a setback in my confidence.

I was looking at some the photos folks have posted here of their dogs eating RMB and I think it was HDM that had a pic of one of her dogs eating a whole quail. What? I want that! Minus the feathers of course. I did give Mystery a bone last week when it was warmer outside He went at it for over an hour while I enjoyed some quiet time over the waterfall and pond. Since I let him chomp away at apple tree branches, I wasn’t worried about the dirt too much.

I did try to give him a bone in his crate one day when temps were below freezing but he wouldn’t touch it. I opened the door of the crate and he brought the bone out with him. I tried to get him to stay on the 8’x6′ linoleum scrap but couldn’t keep him there. OCD kicked in, the bone came up and I set about steam mopping the crate, linoleum and wood floor followed by soap and water. I think I’ll try taking the tray out of the crate and start training Mystery to stay on it while eating.

I so appreciate that you shared the list of foods you’re feeding. With that, you’ve given me a better idea of what a diet should look like than anything I’ve come across so far. Thanks! I’d also read somewhere that balance doesn’t have to happen with every meal – it could happen over the course of days. That’s a little freeing. I’ll let you know when we get to our first raw day.

[JASTECH]

What about the raw chicken quarters in 10 lb. bag for 7.00 or so? With Wal-Fart the problem would be where their ingredients come from in dog food and any Great Value for that matter.

[Shasta220]

@Ajchavis, I don’t give her whole birds… We don’t have the resources for it. Instead? We slice the skin/meat off of a chicken leg, then put it in the food processor with some liver/heart, and let her eat the whole bone. Goodness she is a picky cat!!! If I add any supplement powder to the mush, she refuses. If I add too much liver, she refuses. Why did we start raw with her? Ever since we rescued her (5wk old), she refused to eat ANY type of cat food. Canned, bagged, frozen, kibble, you name it – she hates it.

[Molzy]

Hello,

I recently contacted Honest Kitchen customer service to learn more about the Preference. I inquired about feeding bone-in meat with the Preference, and they claimed that Preference (and the two new base mixes they are coming out with this year) are fine to mix with meat and bone mixtures, and that the calcium/phosphorus ratio would be balanced as long as I used their ratio of Preference:Raw Meat.

Now, as a scientist and having some knowledge of mathematics, I am not sure how that can be true. How can it be a balanced diet with ground boneless meat AND balanced with meat/bone grinds?

Any thoughts?

Molly

[Sue’s Zoo]

Thanks Sharon, Patty and all research from HDM! It’s so good to have someone near the same point with feeding raw etc. It’s such a challenge! Can’t wait to check out the raw roundup internet conference. Thanks so much for sharing that. I too have used some frozen raw (Primal…and yes it’s VERY expensive) and will continue that when things are crazy here or I’m on vacation etc. but I really want to do the more natural whole raw most of the time.

I actually made the jump last week. Primarily because I found a specialist vet in our area that is holistic and does nutrition counseling for raw etc and figured I couldn’t do much harm in a week. I have an appointment with her tomorrow so I decided to start with some of HDMs raw diets from the beginning of the thread. (Wow!! A LOT of work!) But I’m convinced this vet can provide support because she helped so much with our GSD several years ago. He was such an awesome GSD but somewhere between 7 and 8 years old he started showing signs of DM (degenerative myelopathy). Our traditional vet gave us 6 months max with him but a friend recommended Dr. Ava Frick so we took Baron to see her. Thanks to Dr. Frick and stim therapy, acupuncture and natural supplements we were blessed to have a full 18 QUALITY months with our boy. So I checked with her and found that she does do nutrition counseling etc.

Both pups are going to see her tomorrow so we can discuss raw diets and the best way for them to get the best nutrition possible. All our dogs, other than Baron, died from some form of cancer affecting the digestive organs. Can’t help but feel that diet was the primary factor. So I’m determined to do anything in my power to provide these pups with quality food and life.

Have to say I’ve been overwhelmed a lot during the last week but I’m glad I started ahead of time. So many more questions to ask from a much more ‘real world’ vantage point! The younger pup is barely over 4 months but does pretty good with chicken backs. I will relax with it much more in the next 3 to 4 weeks as she gain her adult teeth. She just worries me with the way she attacks her food! The older male (all of 7 months) is more mellow in many ways and will lay on his rug with a turkey neck or chicken back and take time to enjoy it. But I have to say it’s a lot like watching my kids eat a meal I’ve prepared. Very fulfilling 🙂

BTW, we have all hardwood floors so I have struggled with feeding spots and found that the one that works best for me (us) is a large machine washable rug per dog covered with a large bath sheet (towel). The rug keeps the towel in place and most of the time I can just wash the towels and re-use. The rug beneath only needs an occasional wash.

I will post what I hear from Dr. Frick after the visit tomorrow. And I will also include some of the challenges I’ve hit over the last week along with any suggestions to help address them.

[theBCnut]

WOW, Sharon!! Way to go! Baby steps are fine and that conference sounds amazing.

When I started feeding raw, I started with what made it easiest for me, which at that time was DinOvite. That gave me time to do research even more and get comfortable with balancing diets. I now use commercial balanced raw(Darwin’s), commercial grinds that I balance(Hare Today and My Pet Carnivore), premixes(Dr Harvey’s Veg to Bowl, See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix), and homemade balances raw. This way I get convenience the days of the week that I need it, a really great selection of different proteins, RMBs a couple times a week, and all the other features I was looking for in a raw diet.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Sue’s Zoo ~

I am a nanobyte of information away from going raw. I spent two months researching the best kibble to buy for my Golden puppy and now I’ve spent another eight months researching the best way to feed my growing boy and have come to the conclusion that raw is the way to go. Unfortunately, I am also concerned about balancing not only calcium and phosphorus but everything else, protein, veggies, supplements.

Being at a similar point in the raw decision as you (everyone makes it out to be no big deal but it is intimidating nevertheless), the best I can offer is to share a few things I’ve learned along the way and hope it’s helpful.

Having had a Golden that required double-hip surgery before she was two, proper bone growth was a huge concern for me. If you’ve been to the LBP nutrition forum (/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/#post-33156), you’ve probably already read some of the suggestions that Hound Dog Mom posted at the beginning of the thread. If you haven’t, do – It would’ve saved me a lot of research time if I’d found the forum ten months ago. Although I waded through the technical jargon in many of the articles, I found the article by Baker most useful and objective. Now that Mystery is 10 months old, I’m allowing more calcium in his diet than Baker’s recommended .8%. I’ve changed his kibble to one with a higher calcium content (from Innova to Orijen), and have started giving him an occasional RMB and raw egg (yeah, puppy steps).

I can’t speak to whether a puppy should eat raw bones until their adult teeth are in except to say that when I asked my breeder about food choices, I was told he starts giving his puppies chicken backs at six months.

As far as balanced nutrition goes, I’ve considered “balanced” frozen raw brands but they really are expensive and there’s much debate as to whether they’re safe. I’ve read so much conflicting, contradictory and even argumentative information that I have to take a few days off research just to clear my head. Sometimes I wonder if I’ll ever get my Mystery off kibble.

That said, I did find an Internet conference (what will they think of next), on feeding raw that is hosted by Dogs Naturally Magazine. You can find more information here: http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/raw-roundup/. It isn’t until the end of the month but I’ve already registered and am hopeful to glean that last nanobyte of information so that Mystery will be eating only raw in March.

[Mom2Cavs]

Shasta220….my old vet (who I will never recommend to anyone) used Hills, Royal Canin, and Purina prescription diets in his clinics. When asked once what I was feeding my Cavalier, I responded Wellness…they had never heard of it!!! WHAT!? I should’ve left them right then and there but it took a little longer, to my regret. Anyway, we’re with a holistic vet now and I say, “what took so long?!” (maybe that they’re an hour from my house, but it’s been worth it!). My holistic vet carries in his clinic, and feeds to his dogs, Nature’s Variety kibble/canned/treats/premade raw and Real Food premade raw. He also uses Standard Process religiously and also Vetri-Science. He may have the odd bag of Hills or something but I’ve only seen this once. I’m thinking a patient must’ve insisted on it?! There are actually 2 vets in the practice (man and woman) and I see them both. They recommend titer testing, offer acupuncture and chiropractic services and are versed in Chinese herbal medicines. I’m never made to feel like I don’t know anything (which happened with my old vet…he had no bedside manner whatsoever!). Sometimes they even ask for my opinion on a food! I highly respect them and they are both just awesome!

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Mom2Cavs.
• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Mom2Cavs.

[Shasta220]

Okay, I will have to be honest – I have only one time fed my dog what the vet suggested. I am NEVER doing it again! Cassy is a sensitive gal, and was doing fairly well on Dog Lovers Gold. I asked the vet if he recommended it, he shook his head and said “only food I recommend will be Hills.”

I don’t understand why vets mislead SO many people, who already are overwhelmed by nutrition but want the best, into getting this pure garbage! It’s quite frustrating, because I’d like to have a personal opinion on a good food, based on my dog’s qualities, but still all the vet will suggest is Hills…

Are there actually vets out there who agree that Hills is junk, or will I always be stuck researching out my own kibble? It doesn’t seem to be /just/ my vet either, everyone in this area rec Hills.

At least they were a little more helpful on my cat’s raw diet. I think all they said is to give her organ meat – try to feed her a whole small bird whenever possible.

[Lablubber]

Hi it’s me again..

I have almost completely finished transitioning over from the food my breeder had my pup on to Blue Chicken and Rice Large Breed Puppy Food with nothing but good results. I have taken a little over a month and 4 days to accomplish that in and his stool are solid and no stomach issues…. Right now I am at 80 % transition 80% BLue/20% Purina Puppy Chow Lg. Breed Food. Right now I am also adding a teaspoon of coconut oil, a teaspoon of ground flaxseed and some fish oil, about 1000mg.

I am not using any toppers except at night for his supper meal and that is canned Blue Puupy Food about a 1/5th to 1/4th of a can. And his coat is shiny and he seems to be doing very well on it…

But for me where my problem arises is from me reading and listening to all of you guys….I almost feel like if I am not alternating out a bunch of different foods and using different kinds of toppers and adding numerous supplements to his food, then it makes me feel like I am shortchanging my dog???

And please believe me….. I have not spared any expense on my part that I know of concerning him and I really do not want to do the raw diet because I have had too many people I know who have had their dogs, get serious bacterial infections from it and some have even died from sluffing off their intestinal lining and dying of anemia before they could be saved by IV feeding and a harsh round of antibiotics.

So for me….This particular dog is just way too valuable for me to ever chance that and believe me I am not here to make any enemies by saying that but I just want you know my logic behind what I am doing with him so far. But then I also have to say this as well and something that I have found out in life myself and some wise words of wisdom and that is this…. Just because someone does something different or feels differently about another idea or approach to your particular way of doing things….Doesn’t neccessarily make them wrong….It just makes them different…! There i said it…My sermon for the day….

So anyway I took painstakingly long with my Labrador Retriever pup after listening to all of you guys and even forsaking what my vet said and changed over to a food that I read about and researched over for many hours and also a food that I had access to, to buy very readily, that I didn’t have to worry about ever running out of even where some of the online food stood the chance of having weather related delays in shipping, that it would not be running. And so I chose a food that I have seen proven to do well with my friend’s large breed dogs. And then I made a just a very few additions to the food, just to make me feel better.

I did as all of you said ion here and I cut out the milk replacer that I had always feed my pups for the first six months of their lives and longer is I saw the need to do so and I did thatimmediately. So anyway…He appears to be doing extremely well. Although he had to have several surgeries yesterday because he had a slight hernia that had to be repaired from a overzealous Lab mother licking him over and over all the time and never letting his navel ever truly heal up right. The he also had a dewclaw removed that either regrew or was missed by the breeder’s vet originally and he also had a place on his leg that had been cut while he was young at the breeder’s kennel that did not grow back right and so my vet did a little cosmetic repair there as well while he was out at no charge and she also micro-chipped him as well while he was out due to the fact that she hates to stick such a big needles in pups at that age if she can help it and so she prefers to have them out at the time of insertion and so she did that procedure as well..

So needless to say, my little fellow was exceptionally glad to see me when he I cam to pick him up….. He came home though like the walking wounded with a front leg dewclaw removed, a back leg, scar tissue repair, a hernia repair and a microchip inserted just at his shoulders along with an antibotic shot just above it, wearing an Elizabethen (sp.) collar to boot, so he was not a very happy puppy last night…. And today he is wired to a tee at work with me here today, needless to say.

So now for the advice part part….. Is the extra stuff I add to his food….The tsp. of coconut oil, the fish oil (which will be changed over to Krill oil when it gets here) and a teaspoon of ground flaxseed meal added to his food twice a day… Does all of that sound good to the ones in the know on here to be adding to his food or is that an over-kill???

Then on the medical part or at least the vaccination part of his regime…. He has had 3 series of shots so far… And I plan on having one more done just to be on the safe side, although my vet. says the 3 completes his regime. Plus he still has his Rabies shot coming up as well…. So does that suffice for his puppy shots being complete or is there anything more I need to be checking into???

I have read quite a few vets who did not reccomend them getting coronavirus or leptospirosis shots anymore(As well as my own vet feels the same way). But for me…Jess will be competing in AKC and UKC Hunter Retriever Trials and therefore he will be around a whole lot of other dogs in close proximity, so I just want to make sure that I have all of my bases covered with him as far as shots, intranasal and any other immunizations that he might need.

I am going to look into get his Lyme and Botedella vaccinations as well, but what is you guys thoughts on a working retriever and his vaccination requirements???

So that is about it today and I know i write very long but I figure if I don’t know, I never will without asking… So thank you for your patience…

Lablubber

[Shasta220]

What you’re doing sounds pretty good. The others have definitely given helpful advice – adding various veggies might help give her a boost of nutrients. I give my dogs raw eggs – straight from our hens, coconut oil, ground flax in their treats, fish oil, and multi-vitamins.

[Shasta220]

I’ve honestly never dealt with an allergy-prone dog (except food allergies), so I honestly have no idea if it would help or not. I’d go ahead and give it a shot though, coconut oil is great for dogs, mine all get a scoop of it! I’ve heard someone say they have dogs with awful skin problems, not seeming to be food-related. He got the dogs on a good multi-vitamin and a tablespoon of local RAW honey twice daily. They cleared up in a few weeks.

I’m sure other people on here will have better suggestions, as they’re much more experienced I’m sure.
I hope you can find something that works for your guy! 🙂

[Saireah]

This is a great thread and I found it very helpful, InkedMarie!

Wondering if you’ve identified any good treats that are grain-free and potato-free? My list that I’m creating is quite small at the moment (other than raw vegetables, of course).

[SeanG]

Hi – I’m curious. Has anyone tried the Raw Frozen dog food available at Wholefoods? Its under the brand Happy N’ Healthy.

Thanks,

Sean

[theBCnut]

I don’t mix kibbles together but I rotate, feed one one week and another the next. Last winter, I was even rotating different kibbles every day. I mix raw and kibble every day. I have only ever heard of one single dog that had problems with doing that and have heard of probably a hundred or more who don’t. We eat stuff that digests at different rates all the time without the stomach upset that they say it causes. Dr Langer’s and Soil Based Organisms are my 2 favorites from Swanson’s.

[RescueDaneMom]

Hi gsdmommy,

Yes, Stephepn Langer’s 15 strain is the probiotic you want. There is a debate as to whether it is ok to mix kibble with raw. It seems some dogs do fine with it while others don’t. I mixed raw with kibble for my Dane for months and he was fine. Now he eats raw and THK, no kibble. Some people say that because the kibble takes longer to digest than raw that the raw stays in the digestive tract for too long and gives bacteria time to multiply and possibly make your dog sick. I’ve never had it happen but there are people who are very passionate about it. I think it is fine to mix grain-inclusive with grain-free kibble. People mix kibble all the time. I wouldn’t do it long term because you miss out on the benefits of rotation but if you’re doing it short term to see what your dog tolerates/does well on then I thinks it’s perfectly fine.

I hope that was helpful. 🙂

[dogspotindia]

I am agree with your statement that raw bones are good for the dental exercise.

[gsdmommy89]

Hi 🙂

I was wondering if anyone could help me with a question I asked a few days ago. I just wanted to know if it would be too much to mix grain-inclusive with grain-free foods or kibble with commercial raw? I’m going to try a few small bags out for my GSD that seems to have become bored of his current food (Earthborn Holistic Coastal Catch). Also, I do remember someone telling me about probiotics, but can’t seem to remember which one it was. All I remember is that Swanson Health Products sells it. I looked up the website and I believe the probiotic was Dr. Stephen Langer’s 15 strain with FOS? Does anyone know about that? It’s on sale right now at Buy One Get One Free so if it’s that one I want to stock up.

Thanks everyone. Sorry if I’m becoming annoying 🙁

[FreeholdHound]

My boys “avoid” list is pretty long too. I’ve been having success with Natures Logic Beef, Earthborn Holistic Great Plains Feast & I’m about to try out 4Health GF Beef & Potato. I also add in some raw. I should’ve done the test sooner – but it did confirm what I was finding out with failed foods. I did try the NV but Harry wouldn’t eat it. Ugh.

[Walt]

Hello,

I’m a new member and wanted to ask your opinions on dog food for our wire hair Terrier Mix (25 lbs – Smooch). He was on Orijen adult and did well for quite awhile and then started having stomach issues; stomach making noises, gassy, lethargic., runny/soft stools. Smooch has been known to eat anything on the ground, rabbit poop, acorns, etc. This might have been an isolated incident, we are not sure. Vet put him on antibiotics and prescription food and he finally got better (took awhile though). Put him NV chicken raw boost dry and he started scratching more often, I then had a saliva test for food sensitivities by Dr. Dodd and it came back with Smooch being sensitive to most foods. According to this test, the only meat proteins that Smooch can tolerate are Beef/Lamb and white fish. The NV contained chicken and turkey, not good according to test. Put him on NV limited ingredient Lamb and he is doing good, but he poops more often and his poop consist of several small/harder pieces (is this good?). He is still scratching. I started giving him fish oil (sardines/anchovies) daily hoping this will help his scratching but not sure if this is good since test revealed sensitivity to Salmon.. In your opinion, are these type tests accurate? Like everyone on this site, we just want to make good decisions for our dog. Any advice on food for Smooch would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

Walt

[mountainhound]

Should be fine, if you want to be on the safe side, add some vitamin e along with the fish oil to help balance it. Honestly, I’ve been giving my dog salmon oil for the last 7 years with no issues, but he also gets raw eggs twice a week and other foods with vitamin E that balance it out.

[mountainhound]

You definitely want to feed food with a lot of moisture. Raw would be ideal, next best thing is dehydrated like honest kitchen, followed by grain free canned.
I use this remedy when on of my dogs develop a UTI. Raw goats milk (I use answers brand, it has to be unpasteurized, 1/2-1 cup depending on the size of the dog), mixed with cranberry extract (naturvet cranberry relief) and 2 teaspoons of d mannose powder, mix it together and serve. It seems to clear up their UTI’s overnight.

[kcarter137]

I have a 1 1/2 year old 13 lbs chihuahua mix. She has a long story and I need help so here it is. She has been plagued with various ailments since we acquired her. After a couple months of raw feet and hairless patches on her body I took her to see an allergist/dermatologist. We did a food elimination diet and determined she was severely allergic to chicken, rice, and wheat; somewhat allergic to eggs, dairy, and fish in higher quantities. She has been eating cooked pork, 5-10% cooked liver, 15-20% pureed sweet potatoes with skin on, 15-20% raw beef, and every other day she gets half a sardine or canned salmon. She eats no bone but I supplement with calcium. She takes a glucosamine/chondroitin/msn supplement because she has bad knees. We recently started her on a wild salmon oil because my vet said she needed it also. He also told me that she’s not eating a balanced diet so she also needs a multivitamin. So I ordered one from b-naturals. I don’t know what else I can do for balance her diet out. My other half says we cannot feed her raw or bones. Help, please and thanks in advance!!

[Shasta220]

Maddy was originally on Cat Chow, so yeah- hair balls galore there!

She’s seeming to do much better on the new food. I haven’t seen a hairball in a while (well, I don’t really see them. My bare toes feel them in the middle of the night!)

It sounds like fiber and “lubricants” are fairly easy to add into a diet without getting a special extra-spendy-but-full-o’-fillers food.

I’m a little concerned about her weight right now. She’s been checked out totally healthy, and acts completely normal, but she feels pretty scrawny. I was hoping adding the canned was going to help (she hasn’t really ever had anything but dry), but she will eat no more than 1tbsp daily, even though I try to offer it to her twice a day. The worst? I honestly haven’t seen her eat the dry in a while – she only eats the canned now. I’m still keeping my fingers crossed that she eats dry when I’m not looking, since they have free choice dry.

I tried mixing dry with canned, but she refused. Picky picky girl! Are there any quality cat foods that have an extra calorie boost maybe? She doesn’t like raw meat at all, otherwise I’d try her on that.

[martinkopf]

Hello,
I feed my dogs Darwin’s in the morning and a home cooked meal in the evening (recipes from “Feed your best friend better”). I am wondering if I need to add supplements to the home cooked meal, and if so what do you recommend? I did just order some cod liver oil and “Animal Essentials Natural Seaweed Calcium” will these be all I need along with the variety of home cooked recipes and the Darwin’s RAW?

[GizmoMom]

After adopting my dog from the shelter, the first vet I took him to told me it’s fine to feed Beneful, and raw feeding was just a hype.

Of course, that was the first and last time I saw him. I looked for a new vet right away!

Some vets just don’t care what you feed your dog. If your friend was feeding bad food, and was being supported by his vet, it’s going to be very hard for you to change his mind.

If you gather some info on how Beneful is making dogs sick, or how often they get recalled. Your friend might listen if you have data to back you up.