[matt n]

First off, I’m glad I found this site. If I hadn’t, this puppy would have eventually been given the Cesar’s brand of wet dog food. It’s been interesting to read about rotating foods, calcium levels, grain-free foods and other things. I’ve mainly been looking at the large breed and giant breed thread as it’s very informative but, my dog will not be a large breed. She’s more of a medium breed. By math she’s ~68% golden retriever and the rest is toy poodle. The puppy is now 6 weeks old and the breeder estimated she would end up being 30-35lbs. So, what I’m wondering is, does my puppy not being classified as a large breed change the food she should eat? What about the calcium levels?

Right now she’s eating Life’s Abundance along with Nature’s Variety Raw Medallions for treats(not sure if this info is relevant but here it is nonetheless).

I was eying Earthborn Holistic Coastal Catch or Meadow Feast as they’re pretty high rated and I’ve seen tons of positive reviews.

Any suggestions or information is greatly appreciated! Thanks!

• This topic was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by matt n.
• This topic was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by matt n.

[Naturella]

Losul and Cyndi,

Thank you both for the wonderful information! You guys are awesome and super knowledgeable as many on this forum!

I think I will just do 1/3 of a clove of garlic every other day or so for Bruno, or maybe 1/2 clove twice a week, something like that, and see how it goes. I feed kibble with THK in a thick soup-like mix, so I can easily mix crushed raw garlic in there and feed it. Hope he is not allergic and that he still eats his food. I also hope that this will just be of general help to his health and not a detriment. So we will see…

Thank you all again! 🙂

[Deborah M]

Nancy,
K9Natural does not use HPP – which means it stays a true 100% raw. A few folks have suggested adding just a little bit of vegetable to this diet because of the tendency for the stool to be a little dry. I think I mentioned – I add a little pumpkin and that seems to do the trick. The feeding guidelines for mine are as follows: for an 11 lb. dog, they recommend about 1 1/2 scoops of food for the day – I adjust the water how I prefer. I have found that I needed to increase the food a little more and they have maintained a steady weight. So, I give them one scoop in the morning and another at night. That said, I am increasing the amount of food they recommend by about 1/4, so I need to factor that in to what I use for the month. I also give them a nice meaty bone about once a week. So, yes – even for my little ones, it’s expensive. But… since my daughters are taking their sweet time giving me grandchildren, these two get spoiled :):)

[Dori]

Hi Zach. You can crumble it on her kibble but you still need to add water then to the entire meal. Most of the long time posters suggest that if feeding kibble you should add water to it anyway. The issue has always been with the lack of hydration eating dry foods for dogs. Some of the larger dogs especially if they gulp their dry food down quickly can be subject to bloat. Don’t forget that the dry food (without water added) will also expand in the dog after it’s been eaten. I hope I’m explaining this correctly or at least making myself understandable.

As Barbara mentioned, you don’t have to defrost raw food all the way. I only defrost enough so that I can mush in and disguise one of my dogs medications. They like it a little colder and crunchier. I’ve been feeding it this way (all raw) for over a couple of years. I have three small dogs and it’s never harmed them to eat it cold. They also like crunching on ice cubes so maybe that’s why they like their food a bit colder and harder.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by Dori.

[Zach M]

Thanks Dori. I never thought of it expanding. My dog wasnt crazy about the mushy frozen raw though. I really dont know what to do then. I wonder if i could crumble it on her kibble? We will see.

[Dori]

Hi Zach M. Not Barbara but I’d like to help as Primal is in my rotation. The freeze dried which is more expensive than the raw due to processing it’s great for traveling or hiking and camping with your dog. Yes the freeze dried has all the moisture removed and they are more like a biscuit. You have to rehydrate with some warm water and wait just a couple of minutes of so. I keep some on hand for the days that I have forgotten to defrost raw, or thought I had put some in the refrigerator but nope. still in the freezer. All three of my dogs love the freeze dried just as much as the raw. It’s the same product just without the water. You really want to rehydrate the freeze dried before feeding. You do not want to feed it dry and have it expand in their stomachs from moisture in their body. Not a good idea at all.

[Dori]

Hey Labs. Thanks so much for the site to what Barbara O. was telling me about. About to check it out.

I didn’t realize it was in the Victor’s Grain Free food. I can’t get anyone around here to order it for me. I’ve only found it on line and only the huge bags. As you know with my little girls I did try it to see if it would help Hannah’s eyes but since I rotate with raw, half the bag went rancid by the time I got down to it. I don’t know why I can’t find the smaller sizes and why none of the pet stores distributors around me carry it. It was crazy expensive if I remember correctly ordering it on line and then to pay that price and only getting to use half the bag was just plain sad. I think it was a 30 lb. bag which for my three little girls is way too big a bag and the price was well over $60. That was a while ago so I think I’ll start the search on line again and see if I can find the smaller bags.

Again, thanks for the heads up on the Epi Cor by Diamond V Mills. If it’s in Victors and you’ve been feeding Victor’s for a while now I’m sure it’s safe.

Oooh! Labs I just saw that Amazon is now carrying the 5 lb bags. It’s 15.95 and it’s on Prime delivery. Do you think that’s still too expensive for 5 lbs. of Victors Yukon Grain Free?

• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by Dori.

[Nancy C]

Deborah – I heard back from him late last night. I was mostly interested in the prices per day bec I have a GSD AND a Golden Retriever– two big dogs. He said that the AMOUNT to mix with water is on the back of the bag/ box. I did the figuring and it’s at about $8 a day IF the amount is accurate for my dog. An 8 lb bag makes 32 pounds of food and will last about 2 to 3 weeks he said. That fits my calculations.
It could easily take more than they recommend. One never knows for sure. And I have a second dog… So I am looking at other producers, checking prices. Darwins, (Not dehydrated) for ex is Organic which also means GMO Free and it is $6 a day for Turkey, $6.75 for beef and $5.25 for chicken. I do not know if k9Naturals is GMO Free or Organic, but there is no mention on the website of it.
Today I am pouring over DFA Raw to see what else is recommended by some of the old timers. I also do not want anything HPP. (I don’t know if k9 is HPP and need to find out). As one of the old timers said, the pickings get mighty slim.
This is a time consuming process. I learned so much from the posters this morning at the Nature’s Variety discussions. Wow. So much to learn about Raw. Thank you again too. I am so grateful to the kind helpful people there, just like you! I talked to Jaqualine, one of the owners of ANSWERS raw food, yesterday. Wow she was so helpful and knowledgable. She also has a GSD and was able to give me first hand advice.
Have a good day! Many thanks to you!

[Naturella]

Bobby Dog, if you’re ever in GA in the next 2 or so years, feel free to let me know, you got a hot meal from us! 😉

Also, Losul or anyone – if you have experience with feeding raw garlic to your dog, please help me out with dosage and frequency for a 13.5-lb terrier mix who plays outside and goes on long walks daily.

Thank you! 🙂

[Naturella]

Losul, I myself was thinking of adding some crushed whole raw garlic to Bruno’s food every once in a while. How much do you think I should add and how often? Bruno is 13.5 lbs (or so) now.

P.S. My family LOVES onions and garlic, cooked or raw (especially raw, with a hot (tripe/any) soup with feta cheese and vinegar, and some rustic, crusty bread… OMMMMNOMNOM!!! But I digress… Sorry!).

• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by Naturella.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by Naturella.

[losul]

Aimee, I would guess your husband has an intolerance, or even an allergy to garlic? I know some folks with those. I’m sure dogs can easily be the same.

Hehe, I admit, the first thing that came to mind was grapes, when you agreed with USA. But I wasn’t thinking whether you or your family ate them. I just thought it was ironic how you could defend a companies’ use, (who was it Hill’s or Purina?) of grape pomace in a dog food, but feel any and all garlic is unacceptable.

No, I just thought I’d ask, because virtually all mammals, including cats, dogs, rats, primates, humans, even ungulates and birds, have the same susceptibilities to the toxicities from over consumption of garlic, onions, etc. Granted humans have built more tolerance from the long history of consuming them, but they still can and do get all the side effects up to, and including oxidative stress and anemia. Yet vast numbers of people around the world still chose to consume them anyway over the ages for their medicinal properties.

Ever wonder why vampires have an intense fear of garlic? Vampires were thought to be those who have anemia, or other blood disorders- the pale skin, photosensitivity, yellow eyes, etc. They required the blood of healthy others in order to “sustain” them. A big dose of garlic would not be good news at all for the anemic vampire. Some sects and religions even weeded out the vampires amongst them, by those who would not partake.

Anyway, my stance is that dog food companies probably shouldn’t include garlic in their foods. I don’t really appreciate garlic or many other “medicinal botanicals” in many of the “higher” end foods such as sage extract, juniper berry extract. ginseng, gingko, licorice root, anjelica root, marigold, chamomile, etc. Many or all of them can cause allergic reactions for thing. They just don’t belong in dog foods, especially where someone might be feeding them 100% everyday for long periods, IMO. And one with grape pomace in it, well I would automatically reject it as completely unacceptable.

That said, I don’t take any issue with a person adding garlic to their dog’s food, as long they understand the possible allergic reactions, intolerances, or in larger quantities, toxicities, and they treat it as a controlled dosage rather than a food item. I’ve been adding potent crushed whole raw garlic to Turbo’s food at the rate of about 1 and 1/2 extra large cloves or about 6 grams/week, for probably 4 or 5 months now, and intend to keep doing so. For us, the probable benefits exceed what I perceive to be very small risk.

[Dori]

Hi HDM. I had looked through the review and I saw way more pros than cons. I’ve recently tried the Nature’s Dry Sardine formula for Katie who can barely eat anything. I’ve been feeding raw for over two years and still have issues with her. She weighs 6 lbs. I feed her the NL Sardine formula in the am and then a raw different protein in the evenings and she seems to be doing really really well on it. I’m really shocked too because I swore I’d never have any of my dogs on kibble again. This was sheer desperation on my part and advice from my local boutique pet food store that I trust implicitly.

[Bobby dog]

Hi Tindaisy:
I love some classic Tom and Jerry! Those must be pretty persuasive cats to turn you into a cat lover and wishing for more strays. I’ll say it again, lucky kitties. You and C4c have something in common, the love of cats by a few strays stopping by your homes.

If you have a Tractor Supply Store local their brand 4Health is a very budget friendly food with decent ingredients; 46 cents/5.5 oz or 99 cents/13.2 oz, co-packed by Simmons. Only one of my cats will eat 4Health, wish they all would, what are you going to do. I have ordered from Chewy.com a few times, excellent prices and service. Many posters on DFA recommend them as well. Here are some other sites to check out; sign up for e-mail/newsletters from these sites so you can receive info on sales and free shipping offers:
http://www.amazon.com/pet-supplies-dog-cat-food-bed-toy/b?ie=UTF8&node=2619533011
http://www.petco.com/
http://www.petflow.com/
http://www.petfooddirect.com/
http://www.petsmart.com/
http://www.wag.com/

I have my Vet to thank for the journey to learn more about pet nutrition. About a year ago she sent out her monthly newsletter discussing common health issues that could have been avoided by proper nutrition and feeding species appropriate foods. She invited anyone who was interested to stop by for a list of pet food she compiled for cats and dogs. I thought to myself what I was feeding had to be fine since they were name brands that are advertised often, but I’ll stop by and see what she has to say. After I read the information she compiled I was off to the races to research more about pet nutrition. I talked further about nutrition with my Vet, read some books, magazine articles, and visited many sites. The criteria I follow regarding pet nutrition constantly changes and grows the more I learn. I like catinfo.org and DFA because of the simplicity they use to present information to their readers.

Catinfo.org is probably the most popular cat site for the regulars on this thread, but there are several others that are very helpful with current information on feline nutrition and care as well. Here’s another site: http://www.littlebigcat.com/
Both of these sites are run by Vets and I am sure others will chime in with their favorite websites as well. Here’s some links to check out regarding cat nutrition:
http://www.littlebigcat.com/nutrition/why-dry-food-is-bad-for-cats-and-dogs/

Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition

Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition

Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition

On this thread we all share are trials and tribulations about getting our cats to transition to quality foods and other stuff too. Most of mine will eat a premium brand canned food a few times a week and I have a couple that will eat some commercial raw once a week, but most of mine are addicted to kitty crack. Most of my cats are 15+ and I am not going to push a drastic diet change on them at their age. They are now eating mostly canned food with a little GF kibble on the side. I can always hope for more, but I am happy to have transitioned them this far with no issues.

Fish is a concern for all of us farmed or wild caught. Although the quality of fish that is included in pet food might be questionable the same could be said about the quality of meat. So I focus on minimizing exposure to fish and try my best to get quality food in them when they will eat it. My cats’ revolt if they do not get fish a few times a week so I mix in sardines packed in water with their canned food. Sardines typically do not have as much mercury or contaminates that other fish may have. If it were up to me I would not feed fish at all.
From Dr. Pierson:
“I do not feed fish to cats for the following reasons:
• high allergy potential (manifested as skin allergies or inflammatory bowel disease, and possibly asthma)
• toxin/mercury contamination
• PBDEs (fire retardant chemicals) – PBDEs are potent thyroid disruptors
• often high in phosphorus and magnesium
• highly addictive – the cat will not eat anything else”

Thanks for sharing tips on transitioning food. The crazy thing is I thought I would have the most problem with changing their kibble. They always ate canned food with no problem so I thought that would be the easiest. The opposite occurred with mine. I rotate between several kibbles with no transition. It was the Friskies they were addicted to. lol I can’t tell you the money I have spent on quality food only to have them sniff and walk away. I have one cat that pretty much will eat anything and if all else fails Bobby dog is more than willing to clean the cats’ plates. All is good though, they are happy and healthy fur babies.

Akari started this thread and another one about coupons and sales we all share with each other if you are interested. Here’s a link to the coupon thread:
/forums/topic/coupons/page/11/

Stop back and let us know how your guys are doing!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Mary –

That’s great that you’re feeding a raw diet. 🙂

You may, however, wish to check out a book that includes balanced recipes. Two of my favorites are “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown and “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” by Karen Becker.

[Kritterlady]

InkedMarie, I understand,and I’m not an advocate for any particular brand. It’s just that gripe sites masquerading as legit consumer advocate sites tick me off. I’m a huge fan of consumer reports and this other site is nothing like it but a lot of people are fooled into thinking otherwise. I have a ton of friends using Blue and love it and I used it without incident going back to 2006. I’m now using a rotational diet as well as raw, and my friends are so happy with Blue that they think I’m crazy. Though its not for everyone just like any other good brand, I just want both sides presented. Most of what’s on forums is negative and I love all the work you all do on this site to keep it balanced.

[Mary M]

Hello, I have 6 dogs and feed prey model raw. This next week’s menu is:
Monday: Chicken gizzards, raw whole eggs, kefir milk

Tuesday: Pork neck bones

Wednesday: Ground beef, calf liver, whole eggs

Thursday: Chicken drumsticks, kefir milk

Friday: Ground pork, rabbit chunks

Saturday, Chicken gizzards, ground beef

Sunday will start a new menu. I add Alaskan salmon oil and a join supp of glucosamine, chondroitin, & MSM in every day along with coconut oil.

[Dori]

Hi Scottsmoma. Love your name. When you are done with the Wild Salmon Oil you should consider switching to Sardine Oil (Sardine’s don’t live long enough to accumulate a lot of issues that other fish do). Please make sure that you keep any fish oils in the refrigerator and add to the meal at the last moment. Fish oil goes rancid if left out too long pretty quickly. I use Nature’s Logic Sardine Oil (great product by the way) and keep it on the door in fridge. Prepare meals, squirt some in their dishes on the food and put oil back in fridge.

As Sandy suggested, you can add sardines that are sold at the grocery store packed in water two or three times a week. Don’t add other fish oil on the days you feed sardines. Scott will love the sardines. You didn’t mention how big Scott is so use your judgment as to how much of the can to add. I have three small dogs so I use one small can of sardines in water and separate into three equal parts. I do this three times a week. I feed twice a day, so only one meal of the day, not both.

I don’t feed raw other raw fish anymore because there have been too many authenticated stories of contamination in the waters so I just don’t want to take any chances. I also stopped eating sushi myself for that same reason.

[pugmomsandy]

It would still be ok to add the oil daily. Alot of kibbles are lacking in sufficient omega 3 or are not in a proper ratio with omega 6. But also, the fish oil in the kibble can lose it’s potency or start to become rancid once the bag is opened. Proper storage is a must. Another option if you want to add variety is to just give some canned sardines or other oily fish a couple times a week. Or you can even give raw fish.

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/15_12/features/Fats-Chance_20658-1.html

[Deborah M]

Hi Nancy,

It really wasn’t a difficult transition. I was given a sample from the pet store and took it home to try it. My dogs went so nuts for it (I had never seen them eat with such gusto) so I thought I would try it. I have had VERY successful communications with the folks at K9 in Australia. I just email them with my questions, and they email me right back with a personal email. I have even struck up a friendly rapport with “Shane”… very helpful “Kiwi” as he calls himself 🙂 He suggested to me that when making the transition, that I might want to try to start with the Lamb Green Tripe, which I did. It has the most HORRIBLE smell in the world, but its ONLY ingredient is Green Tripe and very digestible and VERY good for them. They gobbled it up, despite the disgusting smell. I started adding in the venison, and they gobbled that up too. I don’t get the beef b/c it’s too high in fat. I noticed a difference in their stool immediately. Much smaller, and on the dry side. Sometimes, I add a little straight pumpkin so help keep their stool from being too dry. Now, I feed them only the venison, and add just a little of the tripe to aid in digestion. I’ve read ONLY good things about green tripe. Believe me when I say my dogs were finicky. I coaxed, begged, and added topper after topper – wasted a lot of money on high end kibble, Orijen, Acana, etc.. They didn’t like anything. Now, they eat like regular dogs, and on cue, so that I don’t have to leave food out for them when I leave for work. I purchase through Chewy.com – in bulk – it’s cheaper. Sometimes, Amazon. I’m sure there are other brands of freeze dried raw that are good, but I like the ingredients of the K9 Natural and I’ve had nothing but success. It will be pretty expensive for a large breed, however. That’s the downside of raw. I’ve priced all of the better ones out, and they all seem to be very similar in price. Good luck!

[Barbara O]

Bobby O

I am aware of the fish problem. The cats don’t get any more fish than the two humans in this house eat…I limit our fish due to mercury and now we have to worry about Japan’s radiation being sent to us via the sea…I agree that most Junk goes into a lot of our cat and dog foods…I know they would pick up spoiled meats from food markets, not unwrap a great deal of the food…just toss it into the pots with the styrofoam and plastic still on it…hopefully this has changed but I doubt it with the cheaper feeds…Purina was guilty of doing this…I took several meats courses in college and I won’t touch weiners….not eating something that mold grows on, then is cleaned off with a chemical and package and sold to the unsuspecting public…if they do this to humans, what do you think they’ve done to the animals?

I am also aware of the law regarding Taurine…there are actually some breeds of dogs that need taurine daily in their diets…You’ll note that Nature’s Variety canned food is the same for dogs and cats…and taurine is in both…

I also know if you withdraw taurine from wolf pups, they can develop cardiomyopathy, juvenile cataracts and reproduction problems…as will foxes….Provide them with the taurine early enough and all of these things can be reversed….

The problem with homemade raw diets is getting enough taurine included…that’s why I’ve always kept taurine capsules on hand…I actually sprinkled it over my foxes’ food several times a week. I know mealworms provide taurine but they still got a shot of the stuff weekly in their food…They were never ill…cats, like foxes have to have it and if a raw diet is used, jut add it.

[Barbara O]

You are so welcome. Please realize that I’m not that smart…it’s called being older and learning from experience and reading…asking questions like you do…and using common horse sense when ruminating over the answers that people give you. I give a great deal of credence to people who have been around the block a few times and who spend time reading between the lines…Remember…anyone can put stuff in print on the internet…I love books that are the printed word. When Toby developed pancreatitis, between my vet and a book I have on hand, we pulled him through. I wouldn’t be without the book…It at least tells me what to do at home while I’m waiting to get an animal to the vet’s office…and some good tips after I go…I learned that we have to keep them hydrated but at the same time keep the pancreas still and not taxing itself….It was Christmas Day when Toby got sick…so we’ve come a long way and we’ve had no more problems…and it was my fault that he got sick. I had fixed a standing rib roast for Christmas and left the pan on top of the cabinet…the grease cooled and rose to the top…I had put water in the pan…I had a sick rescue Dane and hadn’t washed the pan…Toby got on top of the sink….genets can climb anywhere…and swished his tail in the pan, covering his long, long tail in the grease…these animals are fastidious..so he immediately went to cleaning it… When i finally set down after getting Mandy the dog stabilized and medicated…she had a UTI…he jumped into my lap and i felt the wet, greasy feeling tail….he had consumed all that grease…too, too much for a little 3 to 4 lb animal….The next morning he was lethargic…we saw the vet that day and he was started on meds…then we went back and they had to put 50 ccs of fluid under his skin…it took three of us to hold him down in a tube that was meant to do this…it was then i learned how to give him a teaspoon of water every hour on the hour to keep him hydrated, interspersed with a teaspoon of blended food….several times a day….My husband and I had tried to keep him hydrated with 10 ccs subcu but couldn’t hold him down….strong little cuss…first animal I haven’t been able to hold down…As I said, he can be a little Tasmanian devil….I hydrated the Dane with no problem….

Every day I learn something new…that’s why I love sites like this…It helps me tweak what I do for my own animals and it also helps me know what I’m doing right, that has worked for years and years…when something works, your animal is healthy and happy…don’t change what you’re doing…Our animals are individuals…I can’t eat wheat…developed a problem with it…causes horrible arthritis in me…I also know this hasn’t always been the case…same way with chicken…developed something called polymyalgia…docs sent me to rheumatoid clinic at our teaching hospital here…not rheumatoid arthritis so they gave it this fancy name…found out it was being caused by chicken…I was eating it almost every day…I was the one who found the connection…not the docs, just me…case in point….you know your animals better than anyone else…I told one person I won’t feed Purina…had a bad experience with it…not the quality I want for my animals…but that doesn’t mean that others have the same results…From my animal science degree, the various vet courses I’ve taken, and from working with various animals and exotic vets across the US, I have learned a great deal….All I can do is try to put together what I’ve learned to care for what the animals I’ve been blessed to have…I’m seeing too many animals with allergies…something is going on…and I’m seeing these allergies in animals on kibble, raw diets….etc…It’s so hard for me to believe this is a permanent situation….I would start questioning the surrounding environment…not something an individual may be doing but what the animal is coming in contact with that’s not food related…that’s how my allergies started…I cleaned up my environment, cleaned up my diet, starting building my immune system, and now my allergies are almost non-existent. Hopefully, this will happen to the animals out there that are suffering…

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Nancy –

I haven’t tried K9 Natural but I have tried Darwin’s and Answer’s. A lot of posters here use Darwin’s and like it a lot. I think Darwin’s is a good product and I don’t have any issues with recommending it but it doesn’t meet the needs of what I look for when choosing a food for my dogs. I have large, highly active hounds and Darwin’s is just too low fat/low calorie. I love Answer’s, it’s probably my favorite brand of commercial raw. I love that there are no synthetic vitamins and minerals and the fat to protein ratio is perfect for my dogs. I’ve spoken in depth about the product with Jacqueline Hill, the Vice President of Operations and Product Development, and I was very impressed with the ingredient and manufacturing standards. I don’t feed pre-made raw too often because it’s so expensive, but when I do Answer’s is one of my go-to brands.

[Mike Sagman]

Hi Nancy C,

My removal of our review for Big Dog Natural had nothing to do with the quality of the product. The article was removed simply because there were some inconsistencies between the information I had retrieved from the brand’s website and private communications I had had with the company’s owner — as well as blog discussions between the brand and some of our readers

Because I believed my review (that had been based upon the company’s posted label data) could be misleading to readers, I made the editorial decision to withdraw the article from our website.

As of this writing, I have no plans to review it again any time in the near future. Hope this helps.

[Barbara O]

Bobby dog,

I understand about feeding Purina…better than letting them starve but it’s still junk…My cats will eat any type of canned food…which I know isn’t always the best…Cats are carnivores…more so than even dogs…they need more protein and of course, they have to have taurine or they will die…i.e. the reason I feed dry food…I know with my Fennecs I fed a raw diet…ordered 10,000 mealworms a month…and fed pinkies…bought them frozen…Fed raw veggies and fruits…they would not eat dry food…They lived two to three years longer than most Fennecs in captivity. Was told my two outlived the ones most people knew about..Of course, I studied the animal for 6 months…on a daily basis…talking to breeders and owners all over the world..then I purchased my first one…continued to talk to people in England and Japan about fennecs and foxes.

Regarding cats…I will continue to feed both canned and raw tuna…as well as other fis I purchase…my cats are never overweight, never sick and live a very long time…so I’m doing something right…they are never allowed outside so I have plants inside they can nibble on…All my animals are spayed or neutered. Since my animals are well, have had no health problems, I will continue following the protocol I am using…They do get Primal, canned food, dry food, and raw food when I’m cooking dinner in the evening…They have the run of the house…except for our bedroom…this is because of my asthma…PS I also do not believe in vaccinations every year…this actually weakens their systems…I think whatever the animal is…when you find something that works, and the animal is content…you don’t need to be changing things just because some article or someone says to do so…It’s different if the animal is sickly…then I would be willing to try whatever would work.

[Nancy C]

Hi Deborah:
I’m very interested in your experience w K9 Natural. When you started it did you notice any weight loss or gain? I have a 72 pound GSD and am planning to go raw. But when we travel I need a good dehydrated food which means that I will probably feed raw raw in the mornings and dehydrated at night or several times a week at least. Can you share a little more about your transition and anything else? Also have you tried Darwins or Answers? Or has anyone who has just read this? Thank you.

[Tracy W]

Barbara – Yeah, beef really lights Cookie’s ears up, so to speak. If I feed her beef or bison her inner ears get so red and goopy. 🙁

I don’t think one package of raw a month will break me up, so maybe I’ll buy some. I have tried topping Cookie’s food with canned, and I also give her yogurt as that helps fight the yeasty ears. Typically she eats the canned food/yogurt and then gives me a look and leaves whatever kibble hasn’t been touched by the topping. *sigh* I haven’t tried mixing egg, but I will try that. I didn’t know I could give her raw eggs, but I have given her sardines and she loved those.

Cookie weighs about 65 pounds, so depending on food that puts her anywhere from 2-3 1/2 cups of kibble. The 30 lb. bags of Grandma Mae’s and Holistic Select lasted between 3 weeks and a month for her, and that was with me feeding the other 4 dogs her food for a day or two. In reality I could probably feed her less than what the bag says, as she isn’t as active this time of year; she could stand to lose a few pounds anyway.

Making broth is a great idea. I will be sure to do so next time we have turkey or pork.

Thanks for all the suggestions! I feel like I have something to build on now.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by Tracy W.

[Bobby dog]

Hi Barbara O:
A few of us on this thread have been weening our cats off of kitty crack…this may never happen, but we do our best. I also try not to feed fish to my cats, tuna especially. Moisture is critical for a cat’s UT system. Currently I am now down to feeding each cat approximately two tablespoons of dry GF food a day. Hopefully, I can ween them off of dry food as well. Again, that may never happen.

I would love to feed my cat’s quality food consistently however they are finicky and after many years of cheap canned cat food, they like what they like. Sometimes they get half Wellness (or other quality canned food) and half Purina, sometimes straight Wellness, and sometimes just Purina when they turn everything else down. I would rather feed Purina then have health issues due to a cat not eating food.

I do think Halo’s recipes look great. I have fed it in the past to my dog, but stopped when I contacted them and asked who co-packs their food and they would not disclose that information to me. I believe one of the regulars on this thread feeds it to their cats with great results.

Regardless if a cat is a stray or not dry food is not an ideal diet for a cat and I do not consider canned cat food, meat, or raw food a treat for them; I consider them healthy foods for a cat regardless of the quality. Please check out catinfo.org for information on what is important in a cat’s diet. There is an abundance of information on this site about nutrition and other subjects concerning cat care that I am sure you will find interesting! 🙂

[Barbara O]

OK…here I go again. I have two cats presently…a Maine Coon Cat and a Savannah. My Maine Coon is about 17 years old…The Savannah is around 5. Both were rescues, one from a breeder who was breeding the Savannah to death…the other from the Humane Society. I ordered a bag of Halo grain free cat food and my two cats are wild about it…They will turn their noses up at everything else if it’s out. They loved Taste of the Wild before I introduced Halo. I have three feeders and usually keep three types of dry food out for them, next to a waterer…I give them just a little canned food in the AM…not much, just enough to make them know it’s only a treat…The will eat raw chicken as a treat, and they love the juice I pour off the canned salmon and tuna…I rotate the canned food..sometimes it’s cheap food…sometimes when I find the best of the best on sale, they get it…as I said…this is a treat…I am presently feeding them grain free Canidae…grain free…They grudgingly eat it…wanting me to put the Halo out…I won’t feed anything Purina because I know how they manufacture the food…(animal science degrees can ruin you when you see what they dump in the food)…they will eat Natural Instinct…but above everything, they love the Halo….I will actually feed them canned tuna….people grade…A can will last two days as it is a treat…same thing with canned chicken….Feeding outdoor strays….you can feed almost anything…because they will catch birds and mice…and anything else that looks nourishing…My vet in Texas said the food for inside animals was critical but the outside cats can get by a little cheaper because they really do get the actual taste of the wild…

[Barbara O]

Nature’s Variety is wonderful food. Their dry is great…You might feed it and then add a little of the raw…My friend’s dog is medium size and she feeds one of the large packages of raw duck a month. She crumbles up just one of the patties and mixes it in with the kibble, adding water to make it a little soupy…If the dog has no egg problems, crack a raw egg and mix it into the feed…after all, it’s the perfect protein….How many cups a day does your dog eat? The only reason I like to feed the kibble is because my dog is so big that I want to make certain he gets the vitamins….and oils she needs…If you start building the immune system, many of the allergies will subside…Also..there’s yeast and there’s yeast…

I can see the problem with lamb, chicken, and bison, as they are what is called “hot” foods..and chicken is a food I even have to curtail for myself as it can cause inflammation in the body. I am surprised with beef…Duck is not a hot food…it is more neutral…maybe you could purchase a 5 lb bag of Nature’s Variety Instinct…their dry kibble…grain free…and feed it to him…buy a very small package of the frozen and add only one small patty, this is for a little boost in protein and for flavor….I sometimes give Roger several of the genet’s Primal, thawed and mixed into his kibble….It’s not expensive this way…oh…he still gets an egg each feeding…I think Primal and Nature’s V are about the same in cost…Nature’s Variety has had sample frozen packages…you might try them as they’re cheap….Toby’s 3 lb pkg of Primal is $16.00…and it lasts about a month. He gets 2 of the little rectangles a day, along with his precious shaved, preservative free turkey meat…people lunch meat…He will eat the beef but he loves the turkey…I like the Primal because it has veggies in it along with the supplements they need…And…if you found two foods he really likes, you could mix them together….What does he eat, 2 cups per meal?

[Bobby dog]

Hi Tracy:
All of the food recommendations you have received are excellent choices, raw and kibble! Hopefully you can find one that works.

I just have one suggestion for you. I understand budget requirements and even though NV raw might not be in your budget right now as a main diet I would like to suggest maybe try feeding it on a rotational basis. I feed my dog kibble with canned, lightly cooked fresh meat, or commercial dehydrated/freeze dried/frozen raw food for each meal. Most of the time the raw he gets is used as a topper in place of canned food rather than an entire meal of raw (budget issues, lol). I try to feed raw weekly; sometimes more often sometimes not. Regardless of how often I feed raw, he does love it and I believe the variety is good for him.

Check out NV’s website. If you sign up for news letters they send out monthly coupons for their products. Most of the time it’s for their frozen raw. I buy small bags and feed it to both my dog and cats. Check out Darwins too as InkedMarie suggested. I have not fed that brand, but it is recommended by many posters on DFA.

[Dori]

Hi Barbara O. What kibble is your friend feeding as well as the Primal Raw? What is the name of the disease your friends dog has? Very sad. Also what foods would be considered hot and which cool? Should a dog with multiple food allergies and intolerances be eating cool foods or the hot foods? Thank you.

[Barbara O]

Yes…you can feed Primal with just about anything…And…I think the large animal feed is mostly the size of the biscuit…look at the back of the package and compare the medium/large size analysis…I think they’re the same…I know for little dogs, the bites are much smaller…like a cat’s size. My friend mixes her Duck Primal with her kibble…her dog is on medication which is costly…prone to seizures, etc…and this food has given her a 2nd life…much more energy, walks twice a day…and is ready to go, even our AZ heat….

Oh…I also feed Nature’s Instinct raw food, as well. The reason I stick with the Primal for Toby is due to the veggies in it…he won’t eat fruit or veggies…so I sneak them into his diet this way…You can find Natural Instinct frozen, when you cannot find the Primal.. I bought it in my home town in Texas, but they didn’t have Primal…and it’s very good…so don’t be afraid to feed it…you can probably feed a little frozen mixed veggies…you dog will pass the corn whole but the other veggies will be mostly digested…you can feed a little apple, also. My vet has had me add cottage cheese…don’t go overboard and plain Greek Yogurt……as well as Kefir…plain…this will help with digestion,.

[Barbara O]

If you’ll read, I believe they have a digestive enzyme…I feed twice a day also…but I either add in the AM or the PM….He gets his salmon oil in the mornings…I usually give him his glucosamine in the evening…I was giving him Costco pills but he would spit them out so I ordered the dog liquid from Vita Cost…then I discovered I could put the two pills in a jigger of water and they would be completely dissolved by the time I fed…

I rotate my brands….but I always feed grain free to all my animals…including my cats…I have a Maine coon cat and a Savannah…which is a cross between an African cat and a domestic cat…They also get canned food and some Primal..I don’t feed Primal to Roger all the time…because he gets raw bones…If he didn’t get these, he would get some Primal every day…remember, his cousin, the wolf, eats raw meat every day…I’m at work right now but I’ll look at the digestive enzyme I have at home…Toby, my genet, had a case of pancreatitis at Christmas, and I started him on the enzymes after he recovered…I’ll get the name…

I feed the canned Costco no grain dog food mixed in with the kibble, also. It gets a 5…Natural Instinct is wonderful…I fed the grain free by Merrick…can’t think of the name, and he really liked it. I’m feeding a grain free now and I won’t buy it again, but I bought it in a pinch…maybe called Natural Balance…really having to boost it with meat. Tomorrow I will pick up a bag of Costco Grain free salmon….To this I add an egg at each feeding…the perfect protein for both man and beast….I haven’t fed this…my vet said to be careful feeding chicken…you will need to add fat to it…So if I buy Costco, I’ll just buy the salmon or beef grain free and add more protein…since it is a plant based feed…The vet said it is a good feed, though…better than most and very budget friendly…of course, I spend the difference on the things I add…I like Taste of the Wild….it is a 4 and is plant based, though many of the vets here love it…and Danes need to keep watch on the protein due to their size and joints…they grow awfully fast, and Roger is about a year old. He has never had a problem with me just switching brands..no stomach upsets, etc…Just use common sense and ask yourself, would I want someone to switch my diet around all the time? I’ve been taking in orphan animals, raising wildlife, doing wildlife rehab work since I was about 16 or 17, and that’s a long, long time. If I ever learn how to post pictures on this site, will send some before and after pics of the Danes I’ve rescued…and will send a pic of the fennecs and our little Tasmanian monster, Toby the genet.

[Dori]

Wow Barbara O. Very impressive background you have. Love all the different animals you have been able to help also. My question is what digestive enzyme do you add to Primal Raw (I also feed Primal Raw to my three dogs)? How often do you add it to their meals? I feed them twice a day. Do you feed any other commercial raw diets to your dogs and do you rotate your proteins as well as brands? Thanks.

[InkedMarie]

Tracy, if you want to feed raw, look at Darwins.

[Barbara O]

I got several posts on the subject of Primal..I feed the Primal frozen…It is raw meat and veggies…with supplements added. It is manufactured in a facility that passes inspection for human food manufacture…The product is wonderful. I have a small spotted genet that eats it daily. I have mixed it in cat kibble and dog kibble…My friend has a dog that is very picky and it is a big dog…she mixes the duck with the kibble and the dog eats it like candy… I travel with it frozen. If you order it frozen…order as much as you can afford…that way the shipping will be cheaper. Check your local feed stores…those that carry dog and cat food…Also…check with any of your pet shops. I’ve found it in odd places when we travel. When they ship it, it is packed in dry ice…I order organic, grass fed beef for my husband and me and it is shipped from the midwest to hot Arizona in July…always comes completely frozen…ready for my freezer. By adding the Primal to the diet, you are assured of getting everything your animal needs…and you can add your own fruits and veggies to the food…I am assured the kibble, even if it is plant based, meets my Dane’s and genet’s needs…and they both are shiny and healthy. Have been raising and caring for animals longer than many of you have been alive…have a heavy background in animal nutrition in my undergraduate degree plus a few vet courses under my belt as well as human food chemistry courses…have tried to stay up with the research…Don’t believe everything your vet tells you…any vet that tells me how good Science Diet is, I run away from….Am fortunate I have a vet that has taken care of all my exotics and will call over the US getting answers to questions we might both have…have raised raccoon, ring tails, Fennec foxes…had some of the oldest in captivity…due to diligence in diet….both were spoiled pets….a animal fed a well balanced diet with added good oils and digestive enzymes, etc., is one who’s immune system is going to keep them healthy….Remember…corn, wheat and soy are not good for dogs…and raw bones to gnaw on are a blessing…cleans teeth and gives them B vitamins they need….They don’t have people stomachs…they have a straight tube so don’t give them too much variety at a time….They are a carnivore….not a cow…they have teeth for tearing…not for grinding…And….when the diet is high in protein and low in carbohydrate, the back yard is much easier to clean…

[cindy q]

Zach, I couldn’t find any frozen primal on Wag.com only freeze dried? Also does anyone know if its ok to mix raw (primal) with kibble? Someone who sells raw gave me paper work on raw and it said not to mix raw and kibble because they digest them differently.

[Tracy W]

I am incredibly frustrated. 🙁

I was looking into Nature’s Variety, but their raw is too expensive for me right now. Maybe I can give it a try if next year goes better – I’ve heard good things about it.

I will look into Victor Yukon River. I haven’t heard of that one!

Thanks for all the help. If anyone else has any recommendations, please let me know.

Also, does sweet potato negatively affect dogs prone to yeast infections?

• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by Tracy W.

[Dori]

LOL Cyndi. You probably scared the crap out of Bailey and yourself. It took me awhile with Katie to realize that once in a while all dogs will scratch a regular old itch. I took would yell “Stop It” whenever I would see her scratch and would start checking her skin for any redness. I swear she used to look at me like I’d gone out of my friggin mind. So happy to hear that it WAS the detergent. Dumb vet would have continued to badger you about raw feeding. Glad to hear you got the help you needed here to prove the vet wrong before you did something drastic like go back to kibble. Vets can be awfully stubborn. As I’ve mentioned in previous posts, my vets all know I feed raw and have been doing so for a couple of years of more so they can’t play the game of blaming anything on their diets. I feel bad for anyone who is knew to raw and their vets blame the raw food and so they go back to kibble when all along the poor dog’s issue had nothing to do with its diet. I wish vets to get with the raw program already and get over themselves. I mean what? So they took nutrition class for all of about two minutes? For that they expect us to go along with whatever they say just cause they’ve got Dr. in from of their name. Uh Oh! I fear I may be starting to go on a rant here so I’ll stop and just say Yey for Cyndi and Bailey. :>)

[Deborah M]

On paper, Fromm’s is definitely an above average food. That’s why I tried it for my two Shih Tzus. But, sadly, they wouldn’t eat it. I’ve tried so many “five star” dry foods and the reaction I got with just about every thing I tried would go something like this….: They anxiously wait for me to put the bowls down, they stand in front of the bowl, give it an unenthusiastic sniff and walk away with sad eyes as if I’ve just given them cardboard or something. I would come home after work, and food wouldn’t be touched. Orijen is one dry that they will eat, but only sometimes. I recently switched them over to K9 Natural (freeze dried raw) – venison and occasionally add in some of the Green Tripe. OMG!!! – you would think they died and went to heaven. In two years, I’ve never seen them attack their food like this … like actual REAL dogs. It’s expensive, but soooo worth it. Since mine are small, the expense isn’t as much a factor. I do feel bad for those with large breeds who want to go the raw route because it IS expensive, but I am factoring in how much money I’ve wasted in the last two years with failed trial and error. I order on-line … it’s less expensive.

[crazy4cats]

Hi CW-
Wow! This is a frustrating situation. I have two golden labs. They ate anything and everything up until a few months ago. One has decided to be a little bit picky. He likes to have something mixed in with his kibble. I mix either canned or fresh foods in and he eats it right up. For fresh, I rotate between eggs, sardines and frozen raw. He will not eat the Honest Kitchen Turkey flavor any longer. The other pup, who tends to be a little bit chubby still eats anything. He is glad to eat whatever the other one doesn’t! LOL!

I received a sample of Now Fresh large breed dog food a while back and the kibble was very large. They are a very good company if you want to try giving a larger size kibble a shot.

I fed the Royal Canin Vet food for a short while when they were pups due to stomach issues, and you are right, crazy expensive!!!

Good luck to you!

[Zach M]

Should i go with pronto or go with the frozen raw nuggets? From my understanding they are practically the same. What do you guys think?

[Tracy W]

I have a 3-year-old Husky named Cookie who struggles with food and environmental allergies and yeast infections in her ears. I have tried her on all sorts of different foods, and I’ve found she reacts negatively to beef, bison, lamb, and chicken. She did very well on Grandma Mae’s Country Naturals Farmhouse Blend (which is pork and fish based), and she also did well on Holistic Select Duck and Holistic Select Sardine & Anchovy, and Lincoln Biotech’s Zinpro (expensive!!!!!). The problem is, she doesn’t like any of those foods very much. In fact, my mother-in-law and husband feed their dogs beneful, and Cookie LOVES it, although it doesn’t agree with her. She even likes my chinchilla’s food, but doesn’t like her own. :-/

I guess I’m wondering if anyone has any recommendations of foods to try for her that won’t break the bank? I’d consider doing raw if 1) I knew how to source it affordably and 2) I knew she would still be fed raw when I go out of state.

Some of the kibbles that don’t work include:
Wellness Super5
All of the TotW
Nutro LI Venison
California Naturals, with grain
Exclusive
Precise, both chicken and lamb
Verus opticoat
Earthborn Holistic, various recipes including the potato-free ones
Merrick – she did OK on it but there was fur in the duck-based kibble. Fur? Really? They make ducks with fur now? And Merrick told me it was natural. :-/
Whole Earth Farms
Diamond Naturals
NutriSource

I was considering The Honest Kitchen’s Keen, but I’m concerned about the potatoes, and I have nowhere to get it locally. Does anyone have any suggestions?

• This topic was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by Tracy W.

[Kritterlady]

Interesting. I have had good dealings both with knowledgable reps in Petsmart as well as on the phone with the company. While I hear all kinds of whispers in the shadows about the food, I have had great results with it of and on over 5yrs. Several of my friends use it with no problems though like Donald there are some dogs that can’t use all formulas. The company assured me on the phone about sourcing and where the food is made. Though I am more of a home sourced raw feeder, I will continue to feed blue on occasion to my dogs as well as to my 12 rescued barn cats.

[pugmomsandy]

You could offer a variety of foods but might want to buy the medium sized bags so they are used up in a good amount of time. Offer the foods she has liked for a couple of meals in between the Primal or sprinkle the Primal on top of the other foods. Instinct has freeze dried powder (Raw Boost product) that is conveniently already in sprinkle form in a canister. I like to finish an open bag of kibble by two months. I’ve actually never kept track of it, but I have several fosters and use about 10 cups of kibble per day and large bags have around 100-120 cups and I’ll have 2 or 3 different foods open at once.

[Dori]

Nancy C. Your quite welcome. I’m always thrilled when there’s a possibility of a new quality food we can feed our dogs. As you remember, I feed raw to all my girls but sometimes it would be nice to be out of the house and not have to panic to get home for their p.m. meal. Hubby doesn’t thrill to the idea of having to handle raw food. He doesn’t mind the dehydrated that he just has to add water and wait the appropriate time but that’s pretty much his contribution to feeding time dogs and humans alike.

Don’t know when Mike will get to review this food but maybe some of the others will chime in.

[Nancy C]

Hey – Thank you. This is Nancy C. I was inquiring bec a highly regarded Homeopathic Vet recommends DARWIN and Bid Dog Natural food for those people who are not going to feed raw implemented with the extra nutrients which he lists on his website. The homeopathic vet is very meticulous, but I could not figure out WHY it is not reviewed here.
Thank you!

[Dori]

Cyndi, it sounds to me like it would have been the soap. I have terrible allergies myself and can’t use any detergent that has dyes, fragrance etc. Even my friends and family know that when I’m coming to visit they keep All or Tide Free on hand and wash towels and sheets for me for my stay. I think your vet, being put off on a raw diet, is just being a nay sayer. Obviously she herself does not suffer from allergies or she would know that it probably was the detergent. Gain is really fragrance driven and was probably (hopefully–fingers, eyes, and toes crossed) the culprit. It’ll take a little bit but I bet her hair does start to grow back pretty soon. :>)

Oh! Knock on wood too!

• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by Dori.

[Cyndi]

Another Update: The vet just called and all of Bailey’s bloodwork for her thyroid came back normal. I told her I think I had the problem figured out and told her about the laundry soap, she says “I doubt that’s it, I still think it’s something diet related”. Damn her anyway! Why can’t vets get on board with raw diets!?! My dog is obviously healthy other than the current problem! I pray to god her hair starts growing back now and all this problem was because of the laundry soap. I need to find a good vet!!

[Kritterlady]

Donald S, i can tell you what’s causing the lawsuit. A close friend of mine manages a large Petsmart and blue Buffalo is killing the other name brands in sales! It is the number one selling product in Petsmart nationally and the other brands are green with jealousy at this upstart brand. While like many here I feed primarily raw, I do rotate and sometimes add blue wilderness. Ask a competitor rep about blue an you will get tons of misinformation and lies about it. Ask the blue rep about the others an they say nothing negative about the others. A company that has to rely on lawsuits and lies about its competitors is not worth my dime. Good for blue buffalo for fighting this out loud. People are getting educated about what’s in pet food thanks to this site and others And at the retail level there is a shift in what people will put up with even from established brands.