[Zach M]

Unbalanced toppers, like lean meat, should never be more than 20% of a dogs meal. And it is personal preference for rotating food, but I highly recommend doing bag after bag. Also, always go raw if you can. That’s is all I can do for you. Maybe someone with more knowledge can help you later. – Zach

[USA]

Hi Everyone,

I read the ingredient lists for BDN foods and I took this off their website:

“The final product is air dried between 80 and 100 degrees in order not to destroy the integrity of the raw ingredients. All processes of humidity, wind velocity and temperature are monitored and automatically altered when necessary. In this way, we produce a very high end product, that is not only very bio-available but also very much liked by the ones we are doing it for, our dogs.”

My concerns are:
1) They don’t say if 80-100 degrees is F or C, if it’s C then the temps would be 176-212 F and there would be no issue with bacterial growth but it would not be a very gentle temperature. If 80-100 degrees is F, that is a good temperature for bacterial growth. So if the air-dried process takes 8 hours then that food is growing bacteria until the moisture level gets to its finished state of 12% or below. In order to turn fresh meat and veggies into the granola consistency that BDN is, the time of drying at 80-100 degrees F would be 8-12 hours? Without knowing their process I can only guesstimate but even with very high fan speed (air movement) it could take 12 hours or more.

2) Bone, they use ground bone in the chicken, turkey and fish recipes. How finely is that bone ground and how brittle is it after the air drying. How much does the air drying increase the danger of the bone to the dogs that eat it? I don’t know but it is something that would be of concern to me if I were going to feed my dogs BDN.

[Haleybop]

Me, again. I’m never going to stop learning! I feed my 24 lb, 10 month old beagle Back to Basics (all four varieties for now). I feed her roughly one cup a day. Roughly, because for lunch, I add in some lightly cooked protein and take away a bit of the kibble. However, I’m wondering how much protein I should add. I use a lean protein, so I usually take about 1/3 out of her 1/3 serving and add in that much protein. Am I doing this right? Also, how often should I rotate her kibble protein? Every bag switch it to another one or switch it up during the week. Sorry, so many questions!!!

I feed her three times a day. I’m disabled (with a brain injury – that’s why this is hard for me to figure this out), so I’m home with her and can feed her three times a day. I kind of figure, why not? Are they like us that it’s better to spread out the food to keep blood sugar in balance? Is the two-feeding a day for our convenience or should I switch her to twice a day. Maybe kibble in the morning with a topper and raw for dinner (now where do I begin with raw). Sigh. I’m thinking a premix might work better for me. Suggestions?

I realize I have so many questions. For me, every time I see an article on feeding dogs, everyone says GO RAW. It makes me feel guilty that I’m not quite ready to go raw. I did get Steve Brown’s book Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet: Healthier Dog Food the ABC Way and plan on doing the one day a week all fresh food. Got the grass fed beef hearts all ready to go.

I know there are a ton of questions in here. If anyone could answer at least some of them, I’ll feel so less overwhelmed. I just want to do the best for my baby! Thanks so much!!!

[Kristin C]

Hey Cindy-if your dogs love BDN then stick with it but consider adding a supplement and some variety, maybe some real raw here and there, and some novel proteins. Check out the See Spot Live Longer website.

[Dori]

C4C You get 10% off and free shipping on their introductory offer. It’s a good way to try the food and see if your dogs like it. My three dogs are not picky and as I’ve often said would it the package, bag, box the food came in so they are really not a judge as to what they will eat. They love THK as the love all things edible and not. The only food that Hannah, one of the three, has turned her nose up to was Oracle tripe. The other two loved the food. She would not. One of the differences, as I’ve posted in the past, THK has a very strong smell of grasses, herbs, etc. BDN smells of meat (looks like ground meat) that you would be preparing for a meat sauce before you add all your typical sauces and tomatoes etc. for your self and your family. It really does smell and look good. I would suggest you give it a try. Order the smallest amount and get their introductory 10% off and free shipping if you and the dogs don’t like it, it’s not that big a deal. They also have sample packages which include different proteins. I originally ordered their Package number 2 because the girls cannot eat chicken, turkey or anything fowl. So I think it was beef, tripe and maybe fish???. Anyway, though I feed raw, this was a good alternative for my husband who is too squeamish to feed raw incase I’m not home. Men…….grrrrrrrrrh!

[pugmomsandy]

I started raw by offering a couple bites as treats during the day. Then I would feed them a whole meal of commercial raw. Then, we followed that with chicken wings, then drumsticks, thighs and turkey necks. Now I make my own grinds or buy some products from GreenTripe.com and texastripe.com.

[Dori]

Glad to hear you like them BC. I’ve recently added the Beef, Tripe and Fish to the girls rotation. Hubby is quite the squeamish one when it comes to feeding raw so this is as close as I can get if he has to feed a meal because I’ve dared to not be home at the girl’s meal time. I wish they didn’t have the freeze dried potato in their ingredients but as you know I feed rotational diet with every meal it really won’t be a big deal. I don’t like to feed Hannah with anything that has white potatoes because of her touch of arthritis.

cindy q. I believe that some of us have stated (not just me) that for an adult or senior dog this is a great food to feed in a rotational diet. Also most of the regulars on this site feed rotational diets so that what they may miss in one meal (if, indeed, that is the case with any food you may feed) they will pick it up in the next meal. Every single meal does not have to be “complete and balanced”. Complete and Balanced has to be met over a period of a week. If you feed a rotation diet then you really should not have any problems when feeding quality foods. If you’ve followed any of my posts on the DFA site I’m a firm believer in both raw and rotational feeding. My three dogs are my proof (for me) that this is the best diet for them.

I’ve never owned a large dog so have never had to research large puppy requirements in a dog food. I believe it has to do with the calcium in a food so as to not have their bones growing quicker than they should. Others would be knowledgeable in that area. I believe this food would also be fine for puppies of medium, small and toy dogs. I would have no issue feeding puppies this food but, again, I don’t feed any food solely.

[theBCnut]

Nature’s Logic, Amicus, Nature’s Variety Instinct, Brother’s Complete all have very small kibble and are excellent foods.

Best would be foods with moisture in them though, like canned or raw foods.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Jude-
Welcome to DFA. I saw your pups on the review side. They are adorable! I also took in two male littermates at the same time, and it was quite an adventure. Mine are lab and golden retriever mix. Both weighing about 80 lbs. I also have been on an adventure learning how to feed them more appropriately! I feed them mostly kibble, but I do add toppers to every meal. What I add is changing over time. I started out with canned, but while I’ve been on this site, I’ve incorporated other toppers as well. I wanted to give you this link to the See Spot Live Longer website as others have mentioned they have a premix. Here it is: http://www.seespotlivelonger.com/ I started with downloading the SSLL the ABC way for @2.95. It is a guide for people who feed kibble and want to supplement with various raw meats, fruits and vegggies. It is a pretty informative little download. I use his guide for supplementing kibble. Now, in addition, I feed one kibble free meal a week with the See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix. So far, I’ve just added lightly cooked ground turkey to it. He also has a book available on the site that has home made recipes. I don’t see me doing that in the near future. But have at it if you are so inclined! Another good site is http://www.dogaware.com. It has recommendations for books, premixes and even recipes on that site. Good luck and have fun with those pups! They grow up REALLY fast!

[Jude s]

To Kristin, Thank you for the tips and advice, every little bit of advice from all you awesome people helps! Lol ….I think I’ll try introducing raw foods little by little, just too see if they can handle it *crosses fingers*

[Kristin C]

Hi Jude-when I first started my puppy on raw earlier this year I would give her treats of raw chicken during the day. When I was sure she could tolerate it I gave her a full raw breakfast for a few days, then added dinner. I did the same thing transitioning her to raw beef. I have tried Darwin’s but the meat turns brown and it’s expensive. Nature’s Variety worked for us and it is very accessible as it’s sold at Petco, but it’s expensive too. Orijen Freeze dried works for us when when we travel, again expensive though. I have resorted to buying my own chicken and beef when on sale, add organs, puréed vegs, sweet potato and pumpkin and, as of this week, am adding in See Spot Live Longer to my homemade. I buy grinds of novelty meats from Reel Raw to get more variety and rotate those in. In addition, my girls each get a can of sardines per week and I make tripe and yogurt treats for them a couple times per week. You can request samples of THK on their website. I have a couple samples I have not tried yet. The best advice I can offer is to try one thing at a time, keep doing what works, discard what doesn’t work. Every household is different. I have revised my dog’s eating schedule many times this year!

[Cyndi]

Jude, I really don’t think you offended BCnut! Not sure that’s even possible, lol! You are not annoying anyone. We are all here to learn and welcome questions! It’s pretty much trial and error. While one dog may do awesome on any given food, it may not work for another dog. You’re right, you buy what you think is best and see how your dogs do. Unless there is some kind of intolerance to a certain protein or ingredient, I’m sure they’ll do fine.

Good luck!! & don’t be afraid to ask questions. If you happen to see the thread I started about starting my dog on raw from a year and a half ago, you’ll see I asked a TON of questions. & everyone here was more than happy to answer them. 🙂

[theBCnut]

I didn’t say best, I said easy. At least I meant to. When you decide which one you want to use, if you decide to go that route, skip a meal, then the next meal feed about 1/4 what you would normally feed, then feed 1/2 for a couple meals, then go to the full amount. Or you can do what a lot of us here do and just start adding the raw as a topper, and then continue to increase the amount of raw. By the way, you can make big batches and freeze it in portion sizes, or enough for 2 or 3 days, if that works better for you.

[Edith H]

our year-round stocking treats are Stella and Chewy’s beef formula, Raw Rewards freeze dried salmon bites and Crum’s natural’s sweet potatos. Simple ingredients, low calories and reliable food sources!

[Edith H]

I really would like to share some experiences and get some help if possible!!!
I have an amstaffy 4 years old. He has a very sensitive tummy that was treated with diarrhea for a month after we got him ( Back in early Aug this year). Ever since, his stool had been stable with Acana Grassland. Few weeks ago, we took him for a general check up in vet and got recommended with Purina FortisFlora as well. It did made his stool seems drier and harder for the three days that I had been feeding him with Purina, but soon stopped since I was really concerned with not knowing what animal digestive is?! However, it got me all interested in adding probiotic into his diet. Then I was trying out raw goat milk from Primal. Giving little spoon to a 50 lbs dog for straight three days, he ended up with really bad diarrhea in the past two days. Therefore, adding goat milk to aid as probiotic doesn’t seem like an option to me.

Though his stool is normally fine with just Acana, I was hoping to improve his whole digestive systems overall and started research about probiotic and prebiotic…etc. I have problem getting a good result as many probiotic recommended online are sold in USA only.

Are probiotic a waste of money? is prebiotic a really better and safer option even it might feed both good and bad bacterias? any good suggestions in Canada available?

or am I just simply too greedy?! should just stay the same…leave it simple with just Acana kibbles….>,<

[pugmomsandy]

I’m not sure if there is a best way to start pups on raw. But some recommended premixes are See Spot Live Longer, Urban Wolf, The Honest Kitchen, Granda Lucy’s, maybe Dr Harvey’s. There are also some premade frozen raw that come in small nuggets like Primal Pronto and Natures Variety Instinct which are quick to thaw and easy to introduce.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[Jude s]

So like the title said, I need help! I’m trying to start my puppies, that are about to be 4 months on the 11, on raw food. I was told that starting them on premix meals, then transitioning them to homemade or raw prepackaged food is best. The problem is I don’t know which premix meal brands are best…I have pitbull/chihuahua mix puppies. If anyone can help me I would greatly appreciate it 🙂 …..oh and I’ve done my research but it’s a ll overwhelming :/

• This topic was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by Jude s.

[theBCnut]

There is a place about 1 1/2 hours from me that sells Answers and when I’m in that area I get some. It is one of my favorites. I love to give my dogs their raw goats milk!!

As for your titer results, a low number may only mean that he has not come into contact with the virus, so his immune system is not producing antibodies to fight it off. Low numbers can mean that there has been no challenge. Must be nice, parvo is in the soil here. There is pretty much no time when dogs immune systems are not being challenged down here.

[theBCnut]

I feed half kibble due to the need to have something that the squeamish people in my house can feed. For raw, I used Darwin’s until just recently(allergy to flax stopped that), now I’m using grinds from Hare Today and My Pet Carnivore and other home raised meats. I add whatever my dogs need to those. For the last 3 days, they have been working on eating a whole turkey. Ocassionally, I use commercial raws, but 2 of my dogs have multiple food allergies, so there isn’t a whole lot I can use. I rotate everything I feed.

[Nancy C]

BCNUT: I hear you!

I think I will call back the Homeopath and ask his assistant about this. I will ask her if SHE will talk to the doc and see if she learns anything more about the food. This vet is very careful…. I am working w him now bec my GSD’s titer for Parvo came back last week negative, but the distemper was strong. My regular vet wants to REVACCINATE using a COMBO Parvo/ Distemper. (Her Vet Group does not offer singles!) I am NOT going to Revaccinate for distemper when he is immune to it! The Homeopath was adamant about that also and went into details about protecting my dog. So on the other hand I cannot believe he would recommend BDN and DARWINS as his two choice raw foods if he did not know they are nutritionally sound.

Maybe we can get to the bottom of this, bec my dog surely loves the food and it would be a sad day for her if I stopped it.

[Nancy C]

Cindy: YES, my golden has eaten it now for a month. breakfast and supper. She LOVES EVERY FLAVOR! and licks the bowl for more. I will add 2oz of Darwins chicken tomorrow, as I said, just to get her on several foods.

Whoever mentioned THK food: It did not go over as well at this house as BDN. However, I added it to kibble and the golden ate the kibble more readily. But I have never seen her so happy over food as she is the BDN.

Maybe we all need to call the company and talk to Chris…. ??

My plan now is to do BDN, Darwins, Answers and OCRaw. I have talked to the owners at Answers and OC Raw and also Vital Essentials. Hopefully can rotate all those. Also want to be able to run to Whole Foods and get some organic chicken some days.

[Martha S]

Hi Cindy!
Right now we are doing about 50% Darwins, and the rest a rotation/combination of Reel Raw, Tuckers, Primal Turkey/Sardine., and Genesis. Sometimes I’ll add a Salmon grain free roll from Freshpet ( the one thing that isn’t raw) or a couple cans of sardines in water. As a treat, he will get Answers unpasteurized goat milk every once in a while.

We tried BDN tripe and it was a big hit with the pup, so I was really hoping to try and inform myself as much as possible as to the protein/fat/carb percentages. It really is a mystery to me why a company wouldn’t share their nutritional percentages. I kind of makes my mind wander…..is there something bad going on? I really want to like this food…sigh…why all the secrecy BDN?

[cindy q]

I agree Martha, they seem like a great company and it is the only food my dogs seem to love. What frozen raw do you feed?

[Martha S]

Thank you BC! Normally, we feed frozen raw but that is too difficult when traveling, so I was really hoping BDN would officially be our go to food on long car trips. We have tried THK….the pup will eat it, but without much enthusiasm and sometimes leaves leftovers. With it being $60 per small box, it can’t justify the leftovers.

I really wish BDN would just resolve whatever issue is blocking them from being completely forthcoming. I feel they are missing out on potentially having a large customer following if they would just be more transparent.

[Martha S]

I received my first order of Reel Raw about two weeks ago, and having starting incorporating it into our raw rotation. Here is my personal review.

The food arrived on time and frozen solid. Apparently, you do not return the coolers to the company, like we do with Darwins each month. (This really makes no difference to me, as the cooler drop off for Darwins is close to where we live.) I had ordered the Ultimate Combo #1, which is 50 pounds of ground, rmbs, and chunked meats. I figured we would try a little of everything.

After two weeks of randomly picking through several of the items, I have found them all to look like they where fresh when frozen. I thawed each one pound pouch on the counter top and it literally looks like meat that I bought from the grocery store. DH almost cooked some accidently mistaking it for our “people” groceries. Our dog really has enjoyed everything we have given him thus far from the Combo #1.

Conclusion…..two big thumbs up! Not sure how long 50 pounds will last us, especially since it will be in rotation with other raw brands we use (Darwins, Tucker’s, Primal, Answers) but I will certainly be ordering from them again.

And there’s my 2 cents worth.

[DogFoodie]

Hi SunnyD,

Looks like the NVI raw duck bites are a good choice with sodium at .27%.

The product also includes heart, which is excellent glandular therapy.

Here’s a couple of threads you might also be interested in:
/forums/topic/food-and-supplements-for-my-cavi-with-heart-murmur/; /forums/topic/dry-dog-food-with-low-salt-and-low-fat/

[SunnyD]

I have 2 yorkies that are 11 years old. Last fall my female yorkie was diagnosed with a heart murmur and Congestive Heart Failure. At the time both dogs were eating Nature’s Variety Raw duck bites. The vet had me switch her to a low sodium diet of prescription HD wet food. I hate the corn and other fillers in the prescription food. Currently, she is on enalapril, furosemide and vetmedin. I have to give her her pills twice per day (all in one Allergy formula Pill Pocket). She gobbles it right up. I try to give her as little of the pill pocket as possible because I have no idea how much sodium they have. I would love to switch her back to the Nature’s Variety Raw duck bites. Is that a safe low sodium diet for CHF? Any supplements she should be taking? Or other recommendations? Thanks.

[Lily H]

My husband bought theses at our local Piggly Wiggly here in TN. They are made in Canada so I feel safe giving them to our dog and are perfect for our Dachshund. They must not be a big seller in our small town as they will no longer carry them so I bought what they had left. These are better than the rawhide he almost choked to death on but are too small to give to my Shepherd.

[Karen C]

Hi, everyone. I know you’ve seen heartworm questions a million times, but I’m still paranoid, so I’m asking too. My apologies for the length.

We adopted Iggy, our mini Schnauzer, in July of last year. He tested negative for heartworms, and we’ve had him on monthly Heartguard ever since. And a few weeks ago he was diagnosed with a mild case of heartworms anyway. The microfilariae (spelling?) test was negative, but he’s got adult worms.

He had a month of antibiotic, and on Wednesday and Thursday he got his two Immiticide injections. He’s now on Prednisone and Tramadol, and he’s home and crated — we’re on day 2 of 30 days’ strict confinement. The TV’s off, I’ve got a playlist of “Music Through A Dog’s Ear” volumes 1-3 on constant repeat, calming treats a couple of times a day (not sure if the music and treats help him, but they’re not hurting and make me feel like I’m doing something, so they’re helping me), he’s got rawhide and chew balls in his crate with him, and I’m able to work from home to monitor him. The door’s shut and the blinds are closed so he can’t see/hear any people or animals outside. He seems resigned to life in his crate, and so far he’s not fighting it. And my husband is fine with me staying in the downstairs spare room where Iggy is, and doing all of the shopping, etc. himself, so I don’t have to leave Iggy at all. (We have a split-foyer – the “spare room” is actually half the ground floor, so it’s not too hard for me to hang out here most of the time.) 🙂

Trouble is, Iggy’s always been WAY too friendly. If he sees kids or other dogs, he goes “I MUST PLAY WITH YOU NOW!!!!” and he pulls at the leash, shrieks, and tries to run to them. Our block has 6 houses spaced far apart, a few kids, and two neighbors have chihuahuas that they let run loose up and down the street (ugh). No fences (them or me).

I’ve kept Iggy’s outdoor potty breaks short, and we move slowly when he’s out, but a couple of times he’s seen a kid or a dog and suddenly started pulling at the leash and whining. I’m keeping the leash very short so he can’t break into a run, but he tries anyway. I’ve managed to get in front of him, get his attention and calm him, but it takes a few seconds, during which time he’s agitated and I’m sure his heart rate is rising.

So. I know his activity has to be restricted, and it’s usually pretty well in hand, but some of his potty breaks are scary. I’m trying to time them so there’s nobody out when he is, but that’s not always possible.

So far he’s okay, but from what I understand, the post-treatment danger hasn’t peaked yet. What are the odds that the “OMG I MUST PLAY WITH YOU” moments will do lasting damage?

Thanks for reading all of this.

[weezerweeks]

Naturella– anyone can send to Hemopet. Just go on the website Hemopet labs and u fill out the form, send ur money(I used a credit card) They will email u what to do. My vet did this and took the blood and sent it on Mon. They received it Friday and e-mailed me the results.The test is $52 and whatever ur vet charges u to draw blood and send off. I have a great vet so he was cheap. I will receive the results of the rabies titer later. I was very impressed with this lab.

[Naturella]

Kayla – I am loving all your posts and questions!

I think from my reading this is how it goes, best to worst:
Balanced raw
Freeze-dried/air-dried balanced raw
Balanced dehydrated
Canned
High-quality kibble
Low-quality kibble

Even the best kibble is in the bottom as far as “good” for dogs. As C4C said, if you can, go ahead and mix kibble and canned for each meal; heck, throw a few teaspoons of water in there too. Kibble can lead to a constant state of low-level dehydration, so making it wet is better, plus it is supposed to help with nutrient absorption.

That said, I feed kibble – I never go below 4-star foods and I rotate brands and protein with every bag now. Thank goodness my guy is small, so foods last him a while. But, I supplement with a heaping teaspoon of raw, organic, unrefined, cold-pressed coconut oil every other day or so (Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday at breakfast), 2 heaping teaspoons of plain yoghurt/plain kefir Monday and Friday at breakfast, a raw egg once/week (Wednesday at breakfast), a half can of sardines in water once/week (Saturday at breakfast), and a raw meaty bone once/week (Sunday for dinner always – no other food for that meal). Also, for all meals that do not include the above additives (the dinner meals), I add 1-2 teaspoons of The Honest Kitchen (THK) dehydrated food and I add water to make it soupy. Sometimes I would use canned, and still add a tad more water. And I just got green tripe from Big Dog Natural (BDN; air-dried), so you add that and water to the kibble, let it rehydrate as with THK, and serve. So far so good, Bruno is happy, lean, and healthy. 🙂

Please let us know if you have any other questions! 🙂

P.S. If you have a Costco membership, they have the best prices on good coconut oil, as well as cheap, good food – Kirkland Signature brand is 4-star and $26/40lbs (4.5 stars for Puppy and Mature dog, and small breed), and Nature’s Domain (grain-free) is 3.5 stars and $30/35lbs!

• This reply was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by Naturella.

[crazy4cats]

The BCnut was hardly being rude. She is giving the exact same advise and information that HDM would give. She has just as much or more knowledge. She has already completed school and has much experience in the field. HDM would tell Kim to feed her dog variety. Do not feed the same food everyday forever. Yes, Fromm is a recommended food, but it is best to rotate with other kibble as well. She would also advise that a high quality canned food is healthier than kibble as it is less processed and has less carbs. Her first recommendation for dental health would be to brush his teeth, secondly give raw meaty bones such as turkey or pork necks, chicken backs or quarters, or chews such as bully sticks or pig ears. Third choice she has a few dental treats she recommends. A few are Zukes ZBones, Newman’s Own Organics Dental Bones and Nature’s Recipe Dental Chews. HDM is awesome, but she doesn’t participate as much in the forum anymore. I suspect she is extremely busy. I believe it is best to start a new topic under the appropriate category and get as much advise and information from as many posters as possible. Kim, I truly hope you can get your dog to eat and maintain his dental health. I feed my dogs kibble with several different types of toppers such as canned food, eggs and sardines. I give them bones, necks and dental chews. I hope HDM pops in and helps you out, but in the meantime maybe you could use some of our advise as well. As I have learned a lot of this from her and the BCnut.

[gmcbogger38]

Currently my 3 dogs are eating grain free/white potato free kibble ad 2 of my dogs are eating raw once per day. My Saint Bernard, though, has a rash type issue under her chin. It is constantly red and just nasty looking and her face always smells. I have tried raw with her, but she usually won’t eat it and if she does she gets sick. I was wondering if there is a recommendation for a kibble that may allow the rash and smell to go away or if I should cook for her and see if that helps? Just FYI, I keep her mouth wiped after she eats. I just want her to be able to eat something that will finally clear everything up.

[theBCnut]

I only feed half raw so my dogs stay used to kibble in case the squeamish in my family need to feed. I feed a different raw meat every day, and I just add it on top.

As far as him seeming like he is starving, increasing the amount of protein will really help with that. Carbs are digested faster, so they stop getting new calories faster.

[Susan]

Hi Robyn, this dog hasn’t eaten properly probably for years, poor thing, I would be cooking for her just till her tummy gets use to food again, I’d boil chicken breast or turkey (lean meats) add some boiled white rice, get a kibble with the fat% around 10%-12% just to get her use to fat again, I wouldnt do raw just yet, I’d say she was probably just feed a cheap kibble, when she could eat, poor thing.
I rescued a boxer years ago & she was skin & bones, I wanted her to gain weight as it was soo embarrassing on our walks, but I had to do it slowly cause she’d vomited or diarrhea, so vet said just something simple for 1 month till her stomach starts to get use to food & 4 small meals a day, as her stomach would of shrunk & she’d feel full real quickly, her stomach will slowly stretch again…
I’d love to see a picture of her, I love Pit Bulls, scroll down you’ll see right down the bottom ‘Contact Us’ in blue on ur right click on that & it will take you to “How Can I add a custom image to my personal profile” just click on that then you’ll see a link to the “Visit the Gravatar Website”….

[Dori]

Hey BC. I’m glad you mentioned about your dogs being a tad thin. Ever since I put the girls on very high protein, moderate (sometimes high) fat, low carbs they are also a tad on the thin size. I am always tweaking amounts of food or whatever else I add to their meals but they just seem to maintain their weight. As a number of us have suggested in the past and attempted to advise, as far as the fat is concerned it’s the quality of the fat not necessarily the %. I feed my dogs the same way you do though I feed raw, I always have multiple proteins in the freezer so I just switch around constantly. They are so much the healthier for it. Once the dogs are accustomed to rotation it’s no big deal. It’s not the least bit involved.

Katie used to eat poop all the time. She still does it but it’s only once in a blue moon. Of course I’m out there picking the poop up all the time but I do notice that most of the time she doesn’t even bother sniffing it any more.

[Bobby dog]

The supplements the Vet suggested should help with her anemia, poor thing.

I have a healthy, younger pup and supplement with MSM daily, kefir for probiotics, garlic 3x/wk, fish oil capsules 3x/wk when I don’t feed sardines, coconut oil 3x/wk, and vit E 1x/wk. For fresh foods I feed some vegies, fruit, lightly cooked fresh meats (he does not have a taste for raw), and a 1 minute poached egg 1-2x/week which helps keep his skin and coat beautiful. I know their are some wonderful commercial supplements out there that would help with healing her immune system, but I don’t have any suggestions for a dog with her health issues. I do recommend looking into digestive enzymes and probiotics for starters. Some probiotics recommended by regular posters are Dr. Stephen Langer’s Ultimate 15 Strain Probiotic, Swanson Ultra Soil Based Organisms (I believe this might also contain digestive enzymes, not sure), and Mercola complete. Here is a link to Dogaware for a starting point that might help you find info on supplements for her and some other topics as well.
http://dogaware.com/diet/supplements.html

Info on kefir and coco oil:
http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.com/2012/05/foods-rich-in-probiotics-beneficial-for.html

http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.com/2012/02/coconut-oil-is-good-for-your-dogs.html

I will throw this out to you which may or may not interest/help you to improve her kibble diet if that is what you are going to continue to feed her. I follow Steve Brown’s “ABC Diet.” It is an easy menu plan that helps you improve any quality of kibble following a simple menu and according to the dog’s weight with fresh foods (raw or lightly cooked meat) you can buy at the grocery store.
http://www.seespotlivelonger.com/home/sll/page_41/see_spot_live_longer_the_abc_way___electronic_down.html

[Bobby dog]

Robyn:
I am not sure how to attach a photo, but others can help!

Has your Vet checked for giardia and coccidia? Those parasites can cause runny stools and I have read that owners sometimes have to run tests several times as they sometimes don’t detect them initially, IDK.

I don’t have too much experience with putting weight on dogs, and certainly not with an emaciated dog. I am throwing questions out to you in hopes others can offer help and to bump your post up.

Maybe you could try a lower protein/fat kibble such as Nutrisource to help with the transition to a new diet. My dog and cats do well on Nutrisource products. I always add canned, lightly cooked fresh meats, or commercial raw to my dogs kibble. I would keep offering her a canned food as well.

As Cyndi suggested, canned pumpkin might help with her stools. I feed some everyday to one of my cats so I always have a frozen bag full of ice-cube sized canned pumpkin on hand. In most cases it helps with diarrhea or constipation; good food with multiple uses! Some other products for help with firming up stools are:
• Firm up pumpkin supplement –dehydrated pumpkin
http://www.dydusa.com/firmup_p&#8230;
• Fruitables – canned fruit supplement
http://fruitablespetfood.com/f&#8230;
• Honest Kitchen Perfect Form supplement
http://www.thehonestkitchen.co&#8230;

[Robyn H]

I just copied and pasted my post to a raw feeding group on FB…and they can get a little nasty at times…lol

[Robyn H]

I need help ASAP, I DO NOT NEED nasty comments. I am currently fostering a 10-12 year old pit bull (we think) that, on a scale of 1-10, is a 9.5. I have offered, Orijen, raw, raw and Merrick canned tripe together (which she liked) Stella and Chewy’s Duck, Duck Goose. She’s been wormed, and is HW positive and being treated. Per Doc orders, she on Doxy for the HW and Melatonin for her skin. She’s had 3 BM’s all of which were pure liquid. I need sensible suggestions on what to feed her. I need to get weight on her in a safe way.

[crazy4cats]

Hmmm, that is what I was afraid of. The marrow has never bothered them. I give the bones to them when they are still pretty frozen so I don’t notice the marrow. They don’t try to eat the bones. Just socks, paper, pens, pencils and poop!
Nancy- lol! I have bought all three brands. Our store is starting to carry a lot of different frozen raw brands. I’ve seen the lamb bones too. I’ll try them instead. I’ve never seen any rib bones, however. I wonder why when so many DFA regulars recommend them. Good discussion, everybody!

[Susan]

Hi Chris, have you ever done an elimination diet to see what foods he can’t tolarate make him itchy..My vet said that Elimination diet is the only way that you will really know what foods he’s allergic to..If he can eat raw or cooked that would be the best, start with 1 protein only then slowely add a new food weekly & see what foods makes him itch or gives diarrhea..you know within 2 days if they have a reaction.. I found my boy cant have Potatos, they give him diarrhea & rash all over chest, sweet potatos, he gets itchy ears & keeps shaking his head, wheat, his paws go red & itchy he starts licking them & now chicken cause everytime he has chicken he gets his hive like lumps all over his body..it does take time an elimination diet but you will know 100% what foods he can & cant eat…I have Patch on the ‘Wellness Simple’ Limited Ingredient… He was on the Royal Canin Hypoallergenic kibble but the fat was too high 19% he got Pancreatitis…Eukanuba FP has limited ingredients, its another kibble for skin allergies but its Fish & Potato & Patch got real bad diarrhea, I didnt know back then that it was the Potatos giving him diarrhea until I did the elimination diet, now I know he cant have any kibbles with Potato or Sweet potato & alot of the grainfree kibbles have Potato…. I dont know why they put Potato as potatos are high in carbs & carbs aren’t good for yeasty itchy skin…

[aquariangt]

I will preface by saying that those tests are a bit uneven. You could go get it done again and get different results. It’s not a bad starting point but the best way to find out what ingredients your dog is intolerant of would be via elimination diet.

I certainly wouldn’t consider SD your best or even a good option, unfortunately.

First Five Ingredients:
Starch, Hydrolyzed Chicken Liver, Soybean Oil, Hydrolyzed Chicken, Powdered Cellulose

That freaks me out a bit. ok, a lot. If it were me, I would try a couple 5 lb bags of food to get a few things figured out and go from there. A recommendation I would give to start would be Acana Pork and Butternut Squash-it’s got peas but they are a ways down. Nature’s Variety Instinct has some LID diets as well that you could try out. Wellness does as well. So does Natural Balance but I don’t particularly like that brand enough to recommend it

If all else fails and none of these LID diets work for you, I would go for homeade or commercial raw before going onto that science diet thing they’ve got you on

[Nancy C]

I think they ARE weight bearing. I went to Whole Foods and asked for a Raw Meaty Bone and he brought a very large one out which he said he could cut down to whatever size I wanted. He also said that dogs go nuts for the marrow and he said it was a femur. I later learned that those are weight bearing bones. While I do not like to assume anything perhaps when you figure out WHICH BRAND it is that you are using, just call and ask. I was at the Pet Boutique today and PRIMAL has some of those in a bag in the freezer. I know someone who feeds them to their dog and the dog LOVES them. I did not say anything to her about it. The employee at the store told me that they carry lamb bones which are easier on the teeth. She said to me that weight bearing is risky and yet they were in the freezer. So MUCH to keep in mind!!!!

[Nancy C]

BCNUT – Thank you! Will print all this off. I did not know those details re BDN and that is not good at all. My Golden eats that food like there is no tomorrow, licking the bowl as though something would come out of the bowl if she licks enough. IT is very digestible and because of that I will start the GSD on it just as a move TO raw. It’s not “total” raw or “REAL” raw but its a start and this GSD needs an easy start.
My Golden started it a month ago so I will start adding Darwins 2 oz at a time TO the BDN to transition her onto Darwins… Will add 2 oz every other day til she’s done. I think I will keep the GSD on the BDN if he digests it well for a month or so and do the same with Darwin’s. Once they both are on Darwins then I can give them something like a chicken bone at night some nights — and just have a few digestible selections on the menu, probl including BDN and Darwins. Had also liked Vital Essentials and Answers. Thought I might see how they do with those, but that’s on down the road.
I would like to have your opinion as to this plan.
Thank you.

[Shawna]

OH MY GOSH!!! You guys are hysterical!! 🙂

Cyndi and Dori are correct. I did get blocked from posting to the Purina Veterinary Exchange Facebook page. 🙂 I posted much more than below but this will give you an idea.

They recently posted an article about reasons not to feed “people food” to dogs which drummed up a LOT of negative feedback for them. I was actually one of the nice (well, polite) ones on the page. 🙂

1. I asked them if they felt veterinary nutritionist Meg Smart (who taught veterinary nutrition) was incorrect when she stated “I see a benefit in feeding whole foods whether cooked or raw.” http://www.angryvet.com/angryvet-nutrition-interview-drs-joseph-wakshlag-and-meg-smart/#sthash.fVPLTfI9.dpuf They ignored my question but warned me about marketing for other sites.

2. Sugar is apparently added for “texture and fiber”. But do the nutritionists and vets who formulate Purina diets, specifically Beneful, really feel that sugar is an appropriate ingredient for dogs? They told me this page was for their prescription line and that my question was “off topic”. Keep in mind that the original post was about “human foods” like “milk”, “raw eggs” etc. 🙂 I actually don’t disagree with most of the points they were trying to make (adding foods could alter the balance of the already balanced diet). It was their delivery that was the problem.

3. They posted info about their new HA line for allergies. These foods have been chemically hydrolyzed to break the proteins down into amino acids which makes them less likely to cause an allergic reaction (as the body is allergic to proteins not amino acids). However proteins that have been hydrolyzed create the same issue as monosodium glutamate — which has been shown to cause illnesses like diabetes, heart disease, white matter brain lesions, multiple sclerosis etc. So I asked Purina if dogs were “immune” to the problems associated with MSG in humans. They told me to check with my vet on what my dog might be immune to. Uhm??? So I explained I meant all dogs, not just mine. They ignored the question. Then I linked this article by vet Dr. Shawn Messonnier suggesting dog are affected by “excitotoxins” like those in Purina HA. http://www.byregion.net/articles-healers/Dr_Shawn.html Still ignored the question.

4. They also posted an article stating “Many people have turned to gluten-free diets to help them lose weight & feel better, but the fact remains that very few dogs’ diets are improved by going gluten-free.” So I asked them if they had done testing to demonstrate that gluten couldn’t cause “gluten ataxia” in dogs (gluten ataxia is a neurological disease in humans caused by gluten). I linked articles discussing gluten’s role in other diseases in humans, like type 1 diabetes (the kind dogs get) and asked if any testing had been done.

I also linked a Journal of Nutrition page demonstrating dogs can lose weight on a HIGH protein diet (52% was the diet tested). This is about the time they blocked me and deleted all of my comments.

I don’t feel too bad cause they deleted most of the negative and questioning comments on their page from others too. 🙂

My guess is that you would be asked to leave, or appropriately quieted, if you started asking questions like this but if it’s boring and you want to stir the pot a bit….. 🙂

I LOVE Panera salads and more importantly, my 3 year grandson who is gluten intolerant loves their salads. Especially the apple one although he gives me all his pecans.. Woot woot 🙂

• This reply was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by Shawna.

[Nancy C]

OH MY I just figured out that BC stands for BORDER COLLIE ! Duh! My dear friend has two BCs and both are Therapy dogs with our local hospital – the Children’s Hospital. They are such wonderful and beautiful dogs! So you ARE a BC NUT!!!

Thank you for that info. I guess he COULD sometime handle these LAMB bones, which is nice to know.

I guess I need to find out from BIG DOG NATURAL about the Calcium and Phosphorus amounts so to plan for our dog. I think I am going to use some Darwins too and they are very forthcoming about those ingredients.

Our GSD can eat 1 1/2 pounds of raw food a day, according to the Calculators on raw food sites. He MIGHT need 2 full pounds. Will have to experiment I think. I had figured that down the road I can just give AXEL BDN or Darwins for breakfast and measure out on a scale the remaining weighted “True Raw” food at night, like some part of a chicken or even a part of a Turkey Neck. Does this make sense? Thanks.

[Nancy C]

Cyndi:
First your dog is beautiful! I love the way he looks right into the picture! And with seeming purpose! 🙂 I know he’s a sweet one.

Thank you for your post also. You all are really helping me. My GSD was gone for three months for training and while he was gone I decided on RAW. Like you, I read the major books, watched Becker’s videos, took notes, read on line, and my binder is jammed. He had all those troubles on Origen and Acana and i just decided kibble was not worth it.

I will brush his teeth in addition to doing the bones. Thank you for that info. Have some HARE TODAY turkey necks frozen now but he is not YET on raw. I am working with a Homeopathic Vet who is wonderful and who has recommended Big Dog Natural although DFA people did not feel good about what BDN not coming forth with info re GA. I asked BDN about it and they said they could not tell their “secret” (which she inferred had to do with the fermentation of the veggies and the air drying process). The Homeopath vet feeds BDN to his 6 dogs – several are Great Danes – and he loves the food and the company. He also feeds Darwins. He has suggested that I go cold turkey when I transition the GSD using chicken and the turkey formulas (BDN) to begin with for several weeks. One Protein. (THat is what Tracy at HARE TODAY also suggested.) Once he’s doing great on that I will pull out the Turkey necks. After that I think I can start veering out a little. Tracy at HARE TODAY emailed me to take my time and NOT PUSH IT — that getting in a hurry will mess up his digestion. She’s SELLING RAW and TOLD ME TO SLOW DOWN! (That’s a sign of a good person!)

The woman who 1/2 owns Ziwipeak has two labs and she said she feeds them Ziwi at breakfast everyday and then gives them a raw very meaty bone for supper at night. I never got into Ziwipeak myself but it was interesting to hear that she does that. Says they are a picture of health.

Now it appears I must find out about CALCIUM so I do not overdo it. Any references about that?
Thank you again for your input. This is such a great site and I have met wonderful people.
With Gratitude,
Nancy C.

[theBCnut]

Their recipes are like this

Brisket of Beef

Take one brisket of beef and hand it to the dog.

Goat Head

Take the goat head and hand it to the dog.

Eggs

Hand the eggs to the dog. Or you may want to feed them as a supplement to another meal.

Cracks me up just thinking about it. When I found their “recipes.” I was scouring the internet looking for recipes for balanced raw meals. They definitely made me relax a bit, quite a bit.

[Cyndi]

Nancy, just to let you know, you’ll probably have to brush your dog’s teeth as well as using RMB’s. My dog eats all homemade raw, but her front canine teeth still get tartar build up, so I brush them a couple times a week.

I believe you have to watch their bone intake because they can get too much calcium, if I’m not mistaken. I’m not sure what you’ve used already, but I think a good size turkey neck would be fine for your dog. I rotate between turkey necks, goat or rabbit pieces, chicken backs, duck necks, etc.

I know exactly what you mean about all the note taking. Last year, before I started raw, I researched and took notes and printed things out for 2 months straight before I started my dog on raw. It’s been a year and a half and I haven’t looked back…\

Good Luck! 🙂