[Susan]

I would STOP feeding the Royal Canin SO….. When I first recused Patch Patch was put the Royal Canine SO kibble & the SO wet tin food to dissolve his crystals, vet said he was probably used for breeding & got an infection….. Patch was desexed put on antibiotics 2 weeks & the R/C SO for 6 weeks, after the 6 weeks he had another Ultra Scan to see if Patches crystals had dissolve & they had, so vet said now you can put him back on his regular diet, he doesn’t have to keep eating the R/C SO anymore but while eating the R/C SO for 6 weeks, Patch started to itch & scratch, had smelly itchy ears, shaking his head & stunk of yeast, I have since learnt Patch can’t eat Wheat, Corn, Maize, Gluten, Barley & Chicken….
If you can start feeding a raw balanced diet or a cooked balanced diet, the Honest Kitchen has some really good formulas & Base Mixes you just add the protein & the meal is balanced also there’s groups on Face Book you can join “Home Cooking for dogs” “Raw Feeding For Dogs” there’s Monica Segal group called “K-9 Kitchen” https://www.facebook.com/groups/K9Kitchen/
Monica puts up recipes, she has one at the moment “Omega 3 Boost” cookies looks very easy too make, Monica also does consults & special diets for health problems….

With Nelly’s itchy skin & hot spots, bath 5-7 days, weekly baths in an antibacterial shampoo, I use “Malaseb medicated shampoo” its kills any bacteria & leaves the skin & fur feeling sooooo soft & itch free…. change diet to a healthy natural diet, bath weekly or when your dog is itchy & has hot spots, you’ll start to see a big change after changing diet & weekly baths, here’s the Honest Kitchen site “Zeal” or “Brave” are excellent formula’s for dogs with skin problems & low in carbs…. http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/dog-food/zeal

Also google “Dr Judy Morgan” she has diets on You-Tube for dogs with certain health problems & sells the supplements & does consults for diets for health problems..

[pugmomsandy]

There’s alot of canned foods that are high protein/low carb (more so than kibble). Look at the ones rated 5 stars.

[pugmomsandy]

There’s not a long list of very low carb kibbles since kibble is like a bakery product and needs carbs to hold it’s shape. There are brands that use 70% or more protein from animal sources like Acana Regionals USA, some of the Acana Heritage Canada recipes are near 75% animal sourced, Weruva Caloric Melody, Merrick Grain Free, Only Natural Pet Canine Power Food and Orijen currently boasts 80% animal sourced ingredients so their carbs are low. There are alot more low carb choices in canned foods.

Then there are dehydrated foods like ZiwiPeak and Only Natural Pet MaxMeat that are slightly processed so not technically raw but have high protein and low carbs.

There are also supplements you can buy to add to cooked meat to make it a complete diet such as Urban Wolf and Carnivoraw. These don’t require you to add veggies.

[Joanna W]

Thank you for commenting, but i choose to follow the low carb recommendation regardless of whether there are studies to prove it. The dog cancer survival guide both editions advocate for low carb, sugar, salt for dogs with cancer. Many other places I have read the same thing.

I do not rely on skept vets blog as a source of information that I look to. I have read enough of the posts to realize my way of thinking and the approach I take with my pets does not jive or align with the skept vets. When looking at care overall for my animals, skept vet is just to rigidly allopathic for my taste.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by Joanna W.

[anonymously]

“Low-carbohydrate diets are commonly recommended for dogs with cancer on the basis that many cancer cells use aerobic glycolysis and fermentation of pyruvate to lactate as a main source of energy… it is theorized that feeding a low-carbohydrate diet could effectively starve cancer cells through a decrease in the supply of glucose. However, despite the fact that this theory has been in existence for nearly a century, minimal data have been published to support the tangible benefits of low-carbohydrate diets for any species of animal with cancer. To our knowledge, there are no published data to support the contention that low-carbohydrate diets are of clinical benefit with regard to tumor growth, disease-free interval, or survival time in dogs, and further studies are required before appropriate recommendations can be made”.

Above is an excerpt from a blog from this site: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=cancer+low+carb

[Joanna W]

My dog is eating signature fish formula dry and their canned foods. I do plan on doing some cooking for him, and he is getting a version of the budwig protocol, flaxseed oil. Cottage cheese and yogurt. That is separate from his 2 meals a day.

I would like to put him on a low carb diet. As low as possible. Raw is not something I can afford and I have concerns with cancer and raw as a precaution.

I’m looking for a low carb dry or dehydrate that is all around good food, he is on the zignature for mild skin issues which are good right now.

It is beyond overwelming to find something good and affordable. The place I buy food from suggested canine caviar special needs but I don’t know about it since reading some things about the food and the company.

Solid gold barking at the moon has very low carbs but I have concerns after reading the comments on the reviews. Any one with great knowledge of this specific issue I would appreciate your suggestions
Thank you

[Allie S]

So I feed Acana twice a day morning and night 1/4 cup – sometimes he doesn’t even eat, he’ll just skip a meal or will grab the 1-2 kibbles and barry it all around the house (its great when you sit down somewhere and kibble just comes popping out or Blue will nudge me to move because I’m sitting on his “dog food pantry”. I’ve even locked him up in his crate so he couldn’t go and pretend he was a squirrel and barry distribute his food around the house, but instead of eating – he just goes to sleep LOL.
I just ordered a 5lb bag of Orijen Adult dog food, looks like theres about 4-6% less carbohydrates than Acana and multiple websites I’ve came across stated to switch them on a high protein low carbohydrate. Looked at Fromm, made me nervous & I bailed out of that because carbohydrates are around 40%! Big things that I think of is Will my dog get a hot spot or some sort of skin or yeast infection due to different kinds of dog foods, because that is something messy I would love to avoid all in all because he has loads of hair.. I would spend the money on premium dog food just to avoid that mess, but every things a gamble. Next I looked at Evo, but ASH content was about 11%, seemed a little high.. Then it was Dr. Tim Kinesis, we used to have a lab and she was on it, she did great, but then I read about beet pulp and how it can be used as an artificial stool firmer and if they get gastrointestinal problems you’d never know because of that ingredient. Finally, my last choice was Solid Gold Barking at the moon high in protein and low in carbohydrates, but I saw on another discussion that orijen has way less grains than Solid gold soo I chose Orijen for now… (blue was on solid gold lil boss & had borderline diarrhea and pooped about 5 times a day)… Would anyone like to give input on the dog food choices? I also saw Natures Logic, but carbohydrates are about 35%.. (all percentages are from the food analysis on this website)

Crushed pineapple? hmm, canned or fresh? Sounds like a good idea!
I guess I could walk him more, he has great stamina, like amazing, he can out-walk me – after 2 miles I call it a day lol (momma gets tired)

[Strict] Scooping the poop looks like its the go – to plan for me at this moment, even if the pineapple and new dog food doesn’t work… It seems to me that my dog blue is like a baby lol (always need changing the diaper aka picking up the poop)

[Alexander L]

Looking at ingredients and comparing to what would probably be similar brands (such as PetSmart’s Simply Nourish). It looks like it’s Protein/Fat/Carb ratio is better than Simply Nourish. Specifically more protein due to the meals.

Simply Nourish rated 4.5 stars on DFA, I don’t see why this would rate any lower. It will probably be at 4.5, or 5.

On another note, I tried the Redford Naturals Grain Free Duck & Potato and my dog seems to like it s lot. It also costs a bit less compared to some other big brands.

[Dog Pack Mom]

Hi Inked Marie,
You are correct the Hare Today grinds are just scoop and feed. I was referring to the other option for feeding raw less expensively which would be to prepare the raw meals myself. That is the time investment to which I was referring.

I am not currently interested in feeding a full home prepared diet. I am truly interested in finding several kibbles that are well tolerated by my pack to rotate. I would like the kibbles to be low carbohydrate as far as kibble goes. If I choose to feed raw it won’t be more than one day per week at this time. I’m familiar with Steve Brown’s book that instruct how to best do that or the option of feeding a Hare Today or Reel Raw balanced grind.

[Dog Pack Mom]

Thanks to you both for your input. I have ordered from Hare Today in the past when I was raw feeding. I just can’t seem to stick with a large portion of the diet being raw due to either costs or time investment required. I won’t completely rule out raw if it became necessary. Right now, I’m just trying to find several lower carb kibbles to rotate as the main base of our diet. In trying to decrease the carbs and potatoes, I increased the peas and tapioca. It appears one of those ingredients may be the culprit in the tolerance issue Delilah and Rooster are currently experiencing.

[Nikkie M]

Forum Newbie but not new animal Mommy:) Our 11 month old Beagle/Bloodhound mix needs a new food badly. Currently he is eating Pedigree Puppy. He was originally eating a very cheap Wal-Mart food from his first family and Pedigrees not much better but until we got the needed advice we don’t want to go thru whole switching process.
He doesn’t eat his food until he has to. He DOES NOT like it. But is always hungry with growling belly and all. He is eating 1/2 of recommended amount. He is 35lbs, very active, very healthy and eating about 3 cups a day if that. His bowels are so wishy-washy, almost water one time and rock hard the next. Salt has a big effect on him. We noticed if he gets a treat with salt as a high ingredient he was peeing every hour or so. We live in an apt so he doesn’t get excercise like he should. We found a dog park so we know his appetite will increase as his activity does. He is not a big meat fan unless it’s actual meat I am cooking with.
Now comes my questions. We have been researching 4 star foods on this site (the 5 star is out of our price range) 1) which ones have limited salt? 2) should we stick with puppy for 7 more months? 3)how much should he be eating? 4)should we look for lower carbs and higher protein since his activity isn’t going to be consistent till we find a home with a yard? Any advice welcome and Thank You in advance!

[Dog Pack Mom]

Thank you both, TheBCNut and Crazy4Cats, for your replies.

My motivation for getting rid of potatoes was that they have an inflammatory impact. I wanted to decrease the overall carb content to foods with less than 30% due to a yeast issue and lower carbs seems better all around – hopefully, for dental health as well. I’m really not opposed to grains if the overall carb content is low. It looks like the foods that are causing the issues have both peas and tapioca so will have to experiment to see which is the culprit. I try to find foods that I can feed to everybody but not sure if that will work out.

[Dog Pack Mom]

I have always rotated kibble. I’ve tried feeding home prepared raw exclusively and it was just too much work to be honest. I went back to kibble and then decided to do home prepared raw about 4 days per week. Again, I decided it was too much work so my next plan is to go a rotation of high protein lowest carb kibbles I can find and then add in 25% fresh foods and feed raw one day per week. That’s where I am now. Seem to be having some difficulties with tolerance of kibble full time. I stopped everything else. I don’t know if the tolerance issues are bc they’re eating more kibble or bc I’ve deliberately chosen low carb high protein kibbles. I keep thinking when they’re tolerating kibble better I’ll start adding other things back in but… I’m wondering if I need to reevaluate my plan. Tolerance of Nature’s Variety Rabbit was awful and ever since we’ve been off track. I end up feeding each kibble for 1 1/2 – 2 weeks then switch off.

[theBCnut]

I have a dog that won’t eat 2 meals a day, so I only feed one. When I started feeding raw, it was because I had gotten a special needs puppy and one of his needs was to lower the amount of carbs he was getting immediately. Since I didn’t want to fast an 8 week old puppy the way that raw feeders were recommending and my pup had a history of hemorrhagic diarrhea, I didn’t want to switch suddenly, so I did a slow transition to half raw and there has never been even a second of issue with mixing the two for any of my dogs. I’ve never experienced any problems with mixing my food either, and since humans also digest different foods at different rates, I assume that thing about not mixing them is an old wive’s tale. There are quite a number of regulars here that mix and don’t have any issues. I actually think mixing helps my one dog to digest his kibble portion better.

[Dog Pack Mom]

Hi theBCnut

It sounds like you feed pretty much the way I would like to feed. Could you go into more detail of how often you feed each food form? What supplements you add? Are the supplements also rotated or only given when feeding certain meals, etc? I currently rotate a couple of different lower carb kibbles from each Orijen, Nature’s Variety, Merrick, EVO, and Dogswell. I tried raw full time and it became too much for me timewise. I can’t afford premade raw full time so I’m looking at how to incorporate more fresh foods or other food forms into my kibble rotation and trying to find a method that keeps it on the simple side.

[Stephanie B]

Good point! Definitely go by your dog’s look than just the number on the scale. I think switching from the Natural Balance still wouldn’t be a bad idea though if you can find something she’ll tolerate without diarrhea. As it’s very high in carbs and low protein. Unfortunately, as they age it gets harder for weight loss and as with humans excess carbs makes it even harder!

[Stephanie B]

Hi Teresa B- I totally understand not wanting to return to diarrhea issues!! And it sounds like she’s getting lots of exercise, that’s great! We adopted ours as a senior and she weighed 94lbs…she’s gotten down to 84 with about 6 more pounds to go. Do you feed treats between meals? I know those can add up so if you do you should factor them in to her daily calories (there’s a calculator on this site that helps you figure out the recommended daily calories for a dog’s ideal weight and activity level.)

I’ve never used Natural Balance foods so all I can go off of is the label and lower ratings here due to the high carbohydrate content and low protein (Potato is listed as the first ingredient…ideally I’d try to find something with the protein(s) listed first.) That being said if your pup really does well on it and you can’t find an alternative that isn’t causing diarrhea, it’s only 375/cup which is not excessively high. The very high quality protein rich foods (Acana, Orijen, Wysong, etc.) are in the 450-500cal/cup range. So, you could cut back just a little on the serving size per meal of her current food (either mixing in wet food or not) and see if it aids in weight loss. As far as suggestions see below:

Ones that I’ve tried and like (or I should say Heidie liked 🙂 ) are:
Wellness Core Reduced Fat 360cal/cup
Dr. Tim’s Metabolite 268.6cal/cup
Weruva Caloric Harmony Venison & Salmon w/ Pumpkin 348cal/cup
Orijen Senior 445cal/cup (this one is higher calorie so I tend to mix 50/50 with either Wellness Core RF or Dr. Tims Metabolite to cut down the cals per meal)

Some I’ve researched (but haven’t fed yet) that could be viable options to try are:
Annamaet Grain Free Lean Low Fat 350 cal/cup
Nature’s Variety Instinct Grain Free Healthy Weight 347cal/cup
Premium Edge Healthy Weight I 347cal/cup
Nulo Freestyle Cod and Lentils 368cal/cup
Dr. Tim’s RPM Salmon & Pork Grain Free 389cal/cup

If it seems like your dog is having a lot of digestive issues with new foods it might be worth getting an allergy test done to narrow down what foods you can try based on their ingredients.

Hope this helps…all the best!

[laconrad]

Somehow the notion that dogs are pure carnivores has permeated through internet chat forums, among some non-medically trained people working in the pet industry (groomers, trainers, etc.), and those that take their information seriously. This notion is based by in large on the multiply erroneous notion that dogs are essentially wolves, and since wolves are pure carnivores, then dogs necessarily should be fed as wolves would eat.

I stated multiply erroneous notion because the true fact is that EVEN WOLVES ARE NOT PURE CARNIVORES! While it is true that wolves generally require and eat a high level of protein in comparison to dogs, they also consume a significant amount of vegetable matters instinctively, as doing so is necessary for optimal physiological balance and gastrointestinal health in the species. Wolves consume vegetation from routine grazing on grasses and by tearing open the stomachs of their herbivorous prey and eating the contents.

The other true fact is that dogs are not wolves, but differ from the wolf in DNA structure by about 0.8 %. That may not seem like much, but only a 1.2% difference in DNA separates us from the chimpanzee. Few would suggest that we should model our diet around that of a chimpanzee.

Thousands of generations and selective breeding that made domestic dogs more adaptable to life with humans was responsible for the evolution that today differentiates dogs from their ancient ancestor. Among the most prevalent difference between dogs and wolves that resulted is gastrointestinal physiology and how it impacts overall gastrointestinal and other organ health. In the process of canine domestication, humans essentially their early more wolf-like canine companions what they ate, and over successive generations, the species adapted to a more omnivorous diet.

Dog owners jumping on board with feeding their dogs nothing but meat, essentially a pure protein diet, is fraught with potentially serious health consequences. All one has to do is understand protein metabolism to see the problem.

Before protein can be absorbed into body’s cells and tissues for metabolic and physiological purposes, it must first be broken down into small chains of proteins called peptides, and in some cases broken down to the individual molecular protein building blocks, amino acids. Once absorbed by the gut, amino acids and peptides are then repackaged and utilized by the body.

It all sounds lovely, but protein metabolism does not come without a price, as it generates a toxic waste product called ammonia. In fact, many common meat protein sources are as low as 78% utilized by the body with the rest represented as waste. Luckily, like us, canines have a liver that converts ammonia into a less harmful molecule called urea, which is then excreted by the kidneys in urine.

However, the liver and kidneys over time become overwhelmed with a diet heavily laden with protein, because these organs are constantly burdened with detoxification. Over time, if excessively taxed in this manner through diet, these organs become compromised, leading to degenerative disease, chronic renal failure in the case of the kidneys, and cirrhosis in the case of the liver.

Physiologically, dietary protein for the average adult canine should not exceed 25% of the total daily nutrient intake. In high performance dogs, such as those that participate in in field or agility competition, that requirement may be increased to 27%. Beyond this level of protein the dog suffers deficiencies in other key nutrients, such as soluble and insoluble fiber and anti-oxidants to name a few, while unnecessarily taxing his liver and kidneys with excessive protein metabolic waste.

Canine owners that feed raw are the biggest offenders with regard to overloading their dogs with protein, many feeding nothing but a raw meat diet. For these pet owners that are committed to raw feeding, if they are feeding their dogs nothing but meat, I would urge them to integrate fresh or cooked vegetables to represent at least 50% of total dietary intake. Green beans, carrots, broccoli, celery, and spinach are all healthy vegetable sources for dogs. It is also a good idea to integrate complex carbohydrate sources, such as brown rice and sweet potato, as well as some canine safe fruits like cantaloupe, apples, and pears.

What is most troublesome to me is that some commercial pet food companies are taking advantage of the canine pure carnivore hype and creating diets that are heavily laden with protein, even going further to validate this false notion in their promotional tactics. I was actually inspired to write this post after having seen a TV commercial two nights ago from a large, well known pet food company touting its newest diet as having one of the highest protein percentages in the industry.

I caution all canine owners to not buy into the hype, not listen to non-medically trained people that recommend a dietary regimen without understanding that over time it does damage to the liver and kidneys while denying the canine other essential nutrients; and reject pet food companies touting false claims, who clearly value sales far more than the well-being of their canine consumers. If in doubt, talk to your veterinarian to help you sift through what is best to feed your dog.

Dr. Roger Welton is the President of Maybeck Animal Hospital and CEO/Chief Editor of the veterinary information and blog online community, Web-DVM.

[Michael C]

I have never had a dog with diabetes, and am not a nutritional expert, but I suggest something low in carbs; such as: Solid gold Barking at the Moon, or Evo Turkey and Chicken; or Nature’s Variety Instinct Chicken.

[anonymously]

Check out Nutrisca Salmon and Chickpea at Chewy.com
My dog has a history of struvite and calcium oxalate stones and does well on it, no reoccurrence in bladder stones in almost 5 years now. I add water and offer frequent bathroom breaks/opportunities to urinate. Keep the bladder flushed.
I have also used prescription food recommended by the vet with good results.

Ingredients
Salmon, Menhaden Fish Meal, Peas, Chickpeas, Salmon Meal, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Pea Fiber, Flaxseed, Calcium Carbonate, Salmon Oil (a source of DHA), Dicalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Dried Eggs, Natural Flavor, Tomato Pomace, Carrots, Cranberries, Apricots, Choline Chloride, Zinc Proteinate, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Iron Proteinate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Folic Acid, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Proteinate, Biotin, Selenium Yeast, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Rosemary Extract

[Susan]

Hi Marina, did they also do biopsies?? I wonder how they found the Sliding Hernia & how the knew Sphincter is loose?? when Patch has Endoscope they did 2 biopsies & said everything looked excellent, biopsies showed he has Lymphocytic Gastritis with associated spiral bacteria infection (Helicobacter-pylori) after meds Patch still regurgitated raw & cooked meals & gets bad acid reflux after regurgitating the food into his mouth…. kibble is the only food that stays down when he burps but kibble gives him acid reflux sometimes. I’m learning it’s best to give lower carb, low fiber & low fat kibble & limited ingredients & some meals cooked, I feed 4 small meals a day…..Was Beans put on any ant acid medications like a pump proton inhibitor (PPI) Losec or Reglan to move the food along & out of stomach quicker ?
I have Barretts Esophagus & was put on Motilium & Somac a PPI, 80mg a day that’s a very high dose but it stopped my bad reflux, the Motilium didn’t really work, I didn’t notice anything great happening also Patch was put on Motilium you have Reglan in America, the Motilium gave Patch a bad fermenting smell coming up from the stomach into his mouth & vet said Stop the Molitium….. I cant lay down to sleep, I have to sleep sitting up & cant bend over after eating, its awful, I feel for Beans & Patch….I make sure Patches bed is raised where his head goes, so his bum is lower then his head & if he turns around in his sleep, I move the pillow under his head so its raised…. I’m glad you had the Endoscope done, you feel relieved when you get some answers….
Please post what works for beans in his diet…. I’ve just been rotating & changing Patches kibble every month for some reason he cant stay on the same kibble for more then 1 month….

[Susan]

Hi, have a look at the Royal Canine vet diet kibble Guaranteed Analysis that he’s doing well on & pick another kibble with same ingredient used brown rice, the low fiber% & low protein% like the Royal Canine vet diet has, the Protein is 23% & the Fiber is 3.2%….
My boy gets acid reflux, so I have to watch the fat% & Fiber % & carbs cant be too high, I have to keep fat % around 10-14% fat & fiber 3-4%…..

I just looked at the Australian Pro Plan Large Breed puppy Ingredients & Guaranteed Analysis & I think the fiber was too high at 6% fiber & the Protein was high at 28% these two things can cause acid reflux & the bad ingredients, so when looking for a new kibble stick with a lower fiber % around 3-4% & a lower protein % around 24% like the Vet diet kibble he’s eating has…..
Wellpet makes some good brands
“Wellness” Puppy large breed
“Holistic Select” Puppy Large Breed Lamb & Oatmeal, Brown rice, fiber is 3.50% Protein 23% very close to the Royal Canine he’s eating at the moment…
“Holistic Select” Grain Free Adult/Puppy Salmon & Anchovy Sardine meal, Protein is 28%min, Fiber is 6%max both higher like the Pro Plan was, so maybe the grain free might cause acid reflux??
Eagle Pack” Puppy Large breed Lamb meal Oatmeal brown rice
Here’s the Holistic Select site you can see ingredients & guaranteed Analysis… I know the Holistic Select & Eagle Pack is easy to digest like the Royal Canine claims to be …also Holistic Select is 100% guaranteed money back so if your dog has any health problems… also email the kibble company & they will answer any questions you may have…
http://www.holisticselect.com/recipes.aspx?pet=dog

[Susan]

Hi, my Patch has IBD & gets pain we think its either his Pancreas or his stomach he had Endoscope & biopsies done & it come back he has Lymphocytic Gastritis with associated spiral bacteria infection, (Helicobacter-Pylori), Vet thinks he’s getting the pain in his Stomach from having the Helicobacter for years & being left untreated he was a rescue that I rescued at the age of 4 yrs old vet also thinks he may of chewed things & might have chew steal or something that wreck his bowel, now when he gets his pain he start whining & wants me to rub his chest & stomach area, he gets his balls & chews & chews….
When I first got him, he was put on Vet Diet Eukanuba Intestinal low Residue diet it has better ingredients then the Iams Intestinal & less fiber only 1.7 % fiber..
but cause the Eukanuba Intestinal had corn he was getting skin problems red itchy paws
that’s when I started looking for another kibble but its hard…
Now I do the kibble test when you want to try feeding a new kibble try & get samples…I get about 2 kibbles & put them in a glass of warm water & see how long it takes for the kibbles to go soft & swell up… a good kibble only takes about 20mins to 50mins to go soft Patch doesn’t get his bad pain when the kibble goes soft quick & when the fat & protein is low…I found these kibbles go soft around 20mins…
Eagle Pack Lamb & Rice
Earthborn Ocean Fusion
Holistic Select the flavours with rice & oats I haven’t tried their grain free kibbles
Wellness Simple Lamb & Oatmeal takes about 50mins to go soft..

When I have bought a bag of kibble & it didn’t go soft within 1 hr, I was soaking the kibble in warm water in a bowl, when the kibble was all soft, then I drained all the water out of bowl & I’d cuff small amounts of the soft kibble in the bowl & my palm of my hand to drain all water out of the soft kibble then I put all in blender & blended for a few seconds this helped Patch but you have to drain all the water cause they can get acid reflux from too much water being in the kibble, this way the kibbles have all swollen up so there’s no pain when the kibble is in their stomach & dog drinks water then the kibbles start to swell up in stomach…. I found kibbles with Peas gave wind pain, I’ve never feed kibbles with lentils, chickpeas or legumes but I assume they’ll cause wind pain like peas do, so I stay away from grain free kibbles plus they are full of starchy carbs…

If you can replace 1 meal with cooked meal chicken, potato, broccoli & zucchini that will help reduce the kibble…also Honest Kitchen has their Zeal its suppose to be good, I live in Australia & can’t get the Honest Kitchen….
I hope your boy gets better & make sure you hide things he can chew, he might need a muzzle so when your not home he cant destroy & eat things that can make him sick…

[Shawna]

Hey Pitlove,

I TOTALLY agree with you that the yeast will have an underlying cause – always. I think however that a candida infection can manifest as skin and coat symptoms – itching (without actually having yeast overgrowth on the skin).

When I was doing research for the Bright Mind discussion I found that medium chain triglycerides (which are in coconut and palm kernel oils) actually kill several strains of malessezia yeast. Here’s one of the papers.
“Medium-chain triglycerides and medium-chain free fatty acids are toxic for Malassezia species.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10507598

In this paper they mention eucalyptus oil causing a reduction of malessezia. “The volatile oil of Eucalyptus globulus significantly reduced the growth of M. furfur” http://www.e-ijd.org/article.asp?issn=0019-5154;year=2006;volume=51;issue=2;spage=145;epage=148;aulast=Vijayakumar

Interestingly, in my opinion, as I was also swayed by aimee’s comments, is that this article says the malessezia yeast “grew well in Sabouraud’s dextrose broth and agar medium containing butter followed by corn oil, olive oil, coconut oil, oleic acid and castor oil” same link as above. This brought up two questions for me.

1. what is Sabouraud’s “dextrose” broth and “agar” medium? Agar is “80% fiber, contains no fat, no protein, and only a small amount of carbohydrates.” Dextrose “is the name of a simple sugar chemically identical to glucose (blood sugar) that is made from corn.”

Sabouraud’s dextrose broth and agar medium is
“Sabouraud Dextrose Broth is a modification of Dextrose Agar described by Sabouraud.4
Sabouraud Dextrose Media are used for cultivating pathogenic & commensal fungi and yeasts. The high dextrose concentration and acidic pH of the formulas permit selectivity of fungi.5 Sabouraud Dextrose Broth is used for the determination of fungistatic activity in sterile and non-sterile pharmaceutical, food & beverage, and cosmetic products.” http://www.neogen.com/Acumedia/pdf/ProdInfo/7617_PI.pdf

So high in a form of sugar however they added, I didn’t notice how much, oils to the mixture to grow the malessezia yeast on. Interestingly, of the fats they used, it grew best on butter. Also noted, it grew on coconut oil so there must not be enough therapeutic amounts of MCTs in coconut oil, when also combined with dextrose and other factors needed for optimal growth, to kill the yeast. I wonder how coconut oil would do on it’s own? I’ve heard good anecdotal results but…..

Maybe I’m missing something about carbs (at least certain ones) not being usable by malessezia yeast?

• This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by Shawna.

[Pitlove]

Marie, I agree! We need to go with what works for our dogs. I guess my other half of the point that I did not state was, that when people are looking for advice because they haven’t found a solution (like we have), it gets confusing and aggravating when you are trying all the ideas presented on the internet and none of them are working because in reality none of them are based on fact.

Dr. Becker’s videos on yeast used to be my favorite and go to for help. I tried to get Bentley on the lowest carb food I could afford, went grain free (in fact he ate grain free for most of his life), etc. He continued to suffer because that information was not factual and does not work to treat Malassezia. I am actually very thankful that I can still feed kibble/canned with success because I am not in a position to feed raw or homecooked. And Primal (which is just about the only raw food we have a work now) is far too expensive, and I have concerns about using it long term.

[Jazzlover]

Yes, this is the Dip I use, however because Jazz is a black lab it’s advised to NOT use the peroxide as a dip because it can bleach the black fur per Dr. Karen Becker. Watch this one it’s full of insight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl_X1I1GJ1Q.

I do believe Jazz very well may be allergic to grass and that could be exasperating the yeast. I had switched from Orijen Adult to Acana limited ingredient initially thinking he could be allergic to chicken. Unfortunately, I just found out that the Acana limited has more carbs then Orijen (& the yeast became worse) – Orijen Tundra has ~17.5% carbs (the least of all in their lines). I’ve always fed grain-free and now trying low-glycemic. Going raw for a 90lb papa is not affordable sadly w/ 2 teenage boys in the house.

I’m open to other healthy toppers or 1 raw day if someone has suggestions!

~Thanks

Thanks for the cream info!

[Jazzlover]

You can also buy witch hazel wipes. Witch hazel is also recommended by Dr. Karen Becker. Sherrie, please share the name of the wash & cream you mention? Unclear what the cream is for.

How about yeasty feet remedies that work please? I just began doing foot baths w/ vinegar & water, & the off days cleaning webbed feet and nails w/ same but wiping w/ cotton balls. Will bathe 1x/wk w/ antibacterial/antifungal shampoo.

Has anyone had success w/ a cream to fight the bacterial/fungal after cleaning the paws? Now I’m trying coconut oil.

I’m actively trying to remedy this… I switched to from Orijen (other), Acana & Merrick canned to Orijen Tundra because I called and this one has the lowest carbs of both (all) lines, and to instinct canned. I will continue to use sardines as a now and then topper aswell. Adding plain greek yogurt & oregano or ACV.

[Susan]

To Aracely, if your dog has gotten better after having Apple Cider Vinegar means your dog isn’t making enough stomach acid to digest his food, My boy was having bad acid reflux colitis, food sensitivities, vet said IBD… I needed to know what was wrong, so Patch had an Endoscope & Biopsies done & he had Lymphocytic Gastritis & Helicobacter-Pylori, he was put on the Triple Therapy, Metronidazole, Amoxicillin & Zantac for 21 days & a gluten free vet diet Royal Canine Sensitivity Control Tapioca & Duck it gave Patch bad farts. (at the time I didn’t know Patch is sensitive to Tapioca) 1-2 weeks after finishing the triple therapy Patches acid reflux was back again & bad again probably cause of the Tapioca, so his helicobacter was back, there’s not much research on dogs with Lymphocytic Gastritis & Helicobacter-Pylori only humans, then I found Hypochlorydria it’s insufficient stomach acid being made which causes the same symptoms when you make tooo much stomach acid…. if you take Apple Cider vinegar when your making tooo much stomach acid the ACV makes the acid reflux worse, if you take ACV & feel better then your not making enough hydrochloric acid, but dogs can’t talk & tell us mum I’m feeling better… here’s a link http://nutritiongang.com/low-stomach-acidity-hypochlorhydria/#diet-impact
No starchy carbs, No foods high in Lectins, No kibbles with Beet Pulp high in fiber, low carb kibbles, doesn’t have to be grain free, gluten free diets are best & fish omega 3…. What your doing feeding a raw diet with lean white proteins are best….Raw diet made Patch regurgitate food & water back up into his mouth giving him acid reflux, so I started cooking instead…..I’m going to try the raw again…

[Greg F]

Jenn
I’m also a little skeptical of Dr Becker and Meracola and how they push and sell products. I wanted to see what is in her book however on Amazon you can’t “See Inside” before you buy like most books. I wanted to see if she had recipes specifically for IBD.
As for the lymphoma the vet said if she has it the type she would have only would gain her 3 months with treatment. Other than weight and hair loss she is pretty good appearance wise. I do wish we had a good holistic vet in southwest Florida to consult without pushing services and products.
Unless I get comfortable with home cooking I plan to buy THK Kindly dehydrated base mix and mix in cooked venison from the bucher. This should give her a high quality product that has moisture, high protein and low fat and carbs which most people agree is good for IBD. I don’t think for quite some time we can consider the raw protein source.
I will however continue my research on cancer fighting foods and will be very interested in the follow up tests next Wednesday.
Thank you for your input.

[Greg F]

Well I think everyone’s prayers worked. After 2 days in the hospital and no positive signs we waited for the vets 10 am call knowing we gave it all and we prepared ourself so for putting an end to her mistery. Then the vet said she turned the corner and we should give her another 2 days in their care and would come home Tuesday. She is down to 8 1/2 lbs from a normal weight of 11. After 2 days she is eating, firm stools and perky.
We are giving her Hills D/D duck, Primal raw venison cooked, sweet potatoes, pumpkin and a little cottage on top at first to eat the food.
We may still be dealing with lymphoma in addition to IBD and PLE and won’t be doing additional testing and chemo since it won’t buy much time.
I’m considering a consultation with Dr Becker or buying her home recipe book. In the near future I think we will go with fresh venison (low fat) cooked and THK base. This way it is safe and should give her a complete novel high protein, low fat low carb diet with an option to go to an all home cooked meal. Not sure on the supplements.
Thanks for all your thoughts and help.

[Sadie’s Mom]

Well, Sadie cracked a tooth 🙁 She is having it pulled next week with antibiotics until then to prevent an infection. Also, she’s gained nearly a POUND(!!!!!!!!!) so we are testing her thyroid. Should have those results tomorrow/Thursday. Dr recommends wet food only from now on to assist with weight loss because of the lower carb count. So, recommendations on a good low-fat wet food? She pretty much eats anything if it’s canned lol. I can afford nicer food for the first month because I have a coupon to Chewey.com but after that I’ll need a budget food because wet is more expensive in the long run.

[Susan]

Hi My Patch was pooing red blood in his poos not everyday maybe once a fortnight when I first rescued him, vet said Colitis & he was put on Metronidazole (Flagly) he has food sensitivities to certain foods & irritating his bowel also fat, I had to watch the fat content in some foods…. he’s been good now I know what no to feed….
Start her diet again 1 protein & 1 carb then slowly re introduce ingredients again over 1 to 2 weeks adding 1 new ingredient & make sure you check her poos…..

My other dog a boxer pooed a heap of blood just after I rescued her she had worms & needed to be wormed again the RSPCA only wormed her the once & mustn’t of gotten rid of all her worms..

If she wasn’t getting the proper nutrition like your vet said her coat would be dull, no shine, itchy dry skin is one sign of low omega 3 & I’m pretty sure they don’t start pooing blood cause the diet isn’t balanced properly…other things start to happen……have a look at “Balance IT” you add to your cooked meals there also would be other supplements that balance the diet…. I live Australia I use Natural Animal Solutions DigestaVite Plus & the Omega 3,6 & 9 oil…. http://secure.balanceit.com/

[Greg F]

Jenn
Thanks for the reply. We admitted Maddie today around 2:00 to give her the best chance for recovery and hope the new drugs start working. She is on IV, feeding tube and pain meds. They are redoing the ultrasound to check out the pancreas and see if there are other diseases ongoing. In 2-3 days we will evaluate and make some decisions.
The diet you mentioned makes sense to me. In fact I was just checking out the Wysong Epigen kibble for the high protein low carb content.
I think if she makes it past this I will go all out and start making a home food that is an approved balanced recipe. I believe a dog in Maddies health cannot tolerate any problems that commercial dog food can have. Raw is good for many dogs but you can’t take the chance with dogs in Maddies condition.
An interesting comment from the new vet: some dogs with IBD respond to a diet change and the others will always be on medication.

[Jenn H]

Jeffery T had some good advice.
My dog has also been experiencing symptoms of IBD and pancreatitis off & on for the past yr.
After much research and different gets & specialists I have it pretty under control (knock wood).
The most recent specialist was adamant about not giving her any raw meat or goat milk. She was put on a probiotic, pumpkin, bland diet, etc.
It’s been 2 months w/o relapse so I’m thinking of getting her off the prescription can food and trying something else. She gets very little kibble. Not even 1 cup/day.
She continues to get 30 mg Pepcid 2x/day and 2 Tbsp pumpkin for breakfast.

My problem with changing her diet is that low fat is recommended and she’s so active. Keeping weight on her can be tough.

I’m told to try a food with highest protein possible, low carbs and 10% fat on DRY MATTER BASIS (cans seems to be working better for her). Because she’s a GSD that’s kind of low as they really should have about 19% fat. So we’ll see.

The lower the meat protein, the more carbs there will be in the food. The source of the carbs can be difficult on the GI.

The kibble she gets now is Wysong And then
Her wet food is i/d. Usually turkey. Sometimes the stew (not her favorite) or chicken (that’s low fat).
I’m about to try Wysong Epigen cans.

Basically I have had success so far by cutting out raw animal products, probios, pumpkin and lower fat & carbs.

You may find adding enzymes to be helpful also. And maybe even try a novel protein. (If you choose fish be certain no one uses Ethoxyquin as a preservative.)

Remember to make sure the makers of your supplements aren’t sourcing anything from China.

Good luck to you.

[Shawna]

I agree with everything Naturella has recommended!!

Protein is actually ideal for weight loss. Here’s some great information in the Journal of Nutrition.

“High-Protein Low-Carbohydrate Diets Enhance Weight Loss in Dogs”
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/134/8/2087S.full

and

“Weight Loss in Obese Dogs: Evaluation of a High-Protein, Low-Carbohydrate Diet”
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/132/6/1685S.full

For what it’s worth, I’ve had nine toy and small breed dogs on diets with protein amounts ranging from 45 to 54% that are also relatively inactive and do not have weight issues. Like Naturella recommended, consider lowering the amounts fed or even switching to a higher protein, lower carb food.

[Shawna]

Hi Gina,

Proteolytic enzymes are protein digesting enzymes. For several reasons these may be beneficial for Faith. I’ll outline below —
1. Hydrochloric acid in the stomach is produced when food is eaten. When the ph of the gut gets to the right level it activates pepsinogen into the protein digesting enzyme pepsin. Pepsin begins the breakdown of protein. If you are giving an acid blocker with the meal it is quite likely that the initial phase of protein digestion will not be adequate as pepsinogen may not be converted to pepsin.
2. If that initial phase is not adequate it may create the need for the pancreas to produce more enzymes. Since Faith has had pancreas issues the organ may not be working optimally. “May” being the operative word here.
3. If the protein in the food is not digested and absorbed it — a. won’t be available for the body and b. could be consumed by protein digesting bacteria in the digestive tract which will in turn create more ammonia which then becomes urea and eventually will increase BUN. Exactly what you aren’t wanting to happen.

One of the benefits to raw tripe is it is already high in active enzymes and beneficial bacteria (it’s my understanding that gram negative bacteria primarily consume proteins and also create the ammonia that gets converted to urea). Between the beneficial bacteria in the tripe and the Primal Defense there hopefully and eventually, once on long enough, won’t be enough of the bad guys to dine on any undigested protein. Personally, I’d give the enzyme as a precaution though. This article is talking more about carbohydrates effect but this sentence clearly ties protein in as well. “These results suggest that gram-negative anaerobic bacteria make a major contribution to ammonia generated from peptides and amino acids in vivo, and that ammonia may be formed from bacterial cells in the colon.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7381915

In summary — If the food is highly bioavailable (like tripe) and is properly digested more of the protein will be utilizable by the cells of the body leaving less for the bacteria to feed on. By giving tripe and a high quality probiotic you will help clear the gut out of any bacteria that will create higher amounts of ammonia / urea / elevated BUN. Raw beef has far less natural enzymes than tripe but has a relatively high bioavailability. It’s my guess that it is the lack of proper digestion, and gram negative bacteria in the colon, that caused the elevation in symptoms. Aside from the glaring fact that it’s not good to feed just meat —- my husband would have done the same thing. 🙂

[losul]

Interesting theory on the palatibilty enhancers, Dr Carol.

I don’t think this is the one that Aimee referenced, but here is a survey/study that could give insight.

http://www.associationofanimalbehaviorprofessionals.com/boze412010.pdf

At least 50% of my dogs diet is homemade raw, with limited (35%) kibble, but I have had no experience with coprophagia so couldn’t help there.

I found in the the following article in Can Vet, that seems to be relative to what you have asked.

“The dog should be fed a consistent, good quality
diet, high in fat and protein and low in carbohydrate,
with no treats or scraps. Diets high in carbohydrate
tend to enhance the drive to eat stool. The dry food
component of the diet should be reduced and replaced
with a high protein food. Although dry food is generally
a good diet, it has been shown clinically that the
above diet change will often lessen the drive to eat
stool. The addition of vegetable oil (increased slowly
over 7 days, to 15 mL/4.5 kg of body weight/day) is
also helpful. Sufficient food should be given twice
daily, on a regular schedule. Adding the fat and feeding
twice a day helps suppress the appetite for a longer
period, reducing this particular stimulus for stool
eating. Often, a diet change, maintained for 4-8 weeks,
may be all that is required to stop the behavior, in conjunction
with the decreasing strength of the drive as
the animal ages.”

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1680886/pdf/canvetj00575-0079.pdf

[aimee]

Hi Bobby D.

I’ve read that if sensitized, the response following reexposure is within hours but up to 14 days. “Symptoms can appear within an hour of eating the offending allergen, but may be delayed with a peak in clinical signs noted to be up to 14 days in one study.”

www dot lsu dot edu/vetmed/veterinary_hospital/services/dermatology/ce_lectures/food_allergy.php

When doing an elimination diet home cooking with one protein source and one carb source that your dog hadn’t previously been exposed to is the “Gold Standard. If pursing that do not buy ground meats as the grinders are often not well cleaned and there could be cross contamination. You need to buy large cuts and grind yourself.

If using commercial foods, use food from the vet office that have been made specifically for this purpose. They are costly as you are paying for extensive quality controls ( ingredient “fingerprinting” PCR analysis, complete breakdown and cleaning of all equipment and closing the plant to any ingredients except those in the diet being made) to ensure no cross contamination. Limited ingredient diets from retail sources are often cross contaminated with other proteins which will interfere with your results.

IMO a skin reaction 6 weeks out is less likely to be a hypersensitivity unless a newly developed one and if related to the diet may have to do more with the full nutrient profile not supporting skin health.

I know when I’ve trialed other foods it is usually 6-8 weeks before I note problems with Brooke’s skin and coat( dry flakes, dullness, and increased shedding)

Pitlove: Glad to here your dog is doing well. Is the plan to introduce each ingredient separately before changing the diet completely? For example add potato for several weeks and if all well then test the variety of fish in the food you are considering.

[Shawna]

Hi Pittiemama,

Hopefully I can help you here. My puppy had kidney disease right from birth. It is believed her kidneys just weren’t able to develop (she was the sixth puppy, the runt, for a 12 pound Chihuahua / Boston Terrier mix). The breeder had to had feed her, due to a collapsing trachea, raw goats milk and egg whites to keep her alive. She had symptoms (excessive drinking and urine) at just six weeks of age. She was officially diagnosed at one year and given a year to live. She lived to eight years and seven months old and then passed for reasons not directly related to kd.

A little background on me, my father is a naturopath. I did consult with him when I got Audrey’s diagnosis but being raised by him, I was able to mostly formulate the plan of attack myself.

Audrey’s numbers, when she was diagnosed, were right around the same as your babies — and she lived almost seven more very very healthy and happy years. It could happen for your baby too.

The first thing I would suggest is to keep up on his dental health. You won’t want to use anesthesia for dental cleanings so RIGHT now start doing anything and everything you need to keep his teeth clean. It was actually bacteria likely from a dental infection that got into Audrey’s kidneys and ultimately took her life. Use fresh garlic in his meals. Use an enzyme supplement in his water, Dr. Melissa Shelton’s essential oil called Dog Breath is very effective and a drop can be added to his water dish or you can mix with water in a spray bottle and spray right on teeth. http://www.animaleo.info/dog-breath.html I would also recommend a product made by Green Pasture’s called Infused Coconut Oil. It’s high in vitamin K2 (which has been shown to have great benefit for teeth) and has other wonderful nutrients. All of my dogs get it but I found it when Audrey’s teeth were already needing some extra support. 🙁 http://www.greenpasture.org/public/Products/InfusedCoconutOil/index.cfm

I HIGHLY recommend Standard Process Canine Renal Support. It is a food based supplement that “feeds” the kidneys but also has a product called a protomorphogen (which is the RNA/DNA of the kidney cell) that helps prevent inflammation to the kidneys. It is the one supplement she never went without. I also used their SP Canine Hepatic Support when I thought she needed a little liver support — helps with allergies too. I also used their Cataplex B and C as water soluble vitamins may need to be added due to the large amounts being urinated out.

ONLY give filtered or other forms of “clean” water. I would avoid tap water at all cost. Lower sodium mineral waters with good amounts of calcium and magnesium have been shown to be beneficial for dogs with kd. I like Evian water because it is high in calcium bicarbonate. I didn’t give it all the time but made sure (at least in the beginning) to give it regularly — I got lax in the later years and I truly believe Audrey would still be with me if I had not. She was doing so well though and my life got busier..

I HIGHLY recommend getting some Garden of Life Primal Defense probiotic and Garden of Life Acacia Fiber supplements as well. These are used as “nitrogen traps” and as BUN begins to build up the bacteria consuming the fiber will cause some of the nitrogen to be routed through the bowels freeing up the kidneys from having to deal with them. I gave probiotic foods (like green tripe, fermented veggies etc) frequently but when I noticed she was feeling a little lethargic, depressed, not feeling well etc I assumed nitrogen was building up and I’d give her the probiotics and prebiotic for several days. Always worked like a charm. Will be quite important as the disease progresses and he starts getting symptoms. This also allows for a higher protein diet. The protein doesn’t damage the kidneys but it does, due to BUN, add to symptoms. Oh, I forgot to mention. Audrey ate a HIGH protein raw diet up until the last six to eight weeks of her life. Audrey never had a problem with phosphorus but as your puppies disease progresses you may have to watch the amount of phosphorus in the foods you are feeding. The golden rule is to limit phosphorus but it’s obviously not always necessary. That said, phosphorus can damage the kidneys if it gets too high in the blood so either monitor it or feed the right amounts of phos for the stage your pup is at. Right now while phosphorus isn’t as big an issue, I like the Honest Kitchen Brave. To that I would add a raw egg a few times per week and give Answer’s raw goat milk regularly as well. Both raw eggs (if not whipped etc) and raw milk can easily increase the “master antioxidant” in the body called glutathione. This will obviously help out everything. Later, when phos needs to be more restricted, you may not be able to give the whole egg (as the yolk is higher in phos).

Supplements —
1. Organic Turmeric is good as it is anti-inflammatory but it also is anti-fibrotic (prevents scar tissue). Audrey didn’t tolerate turmeric well so she didn’t get it but in general it would be quite helpful for a dog with KD.
2. Spirulina, chlorella and pumpkin seed oil are all high in chlorophyll and supplies lots of other nutrients. Dogs with KD can be at risk for anemia and chlorophyll is awesome for anemia.
3. Burdock root is a prebiotic and of the herb world is considered to be the “blood cleaner”.
4. Milk thistle helps spare glutathione and is a good detoxer.
5. Distilled water (given once in a while) and food grade activated charcoal are good detoxers too.
6. Copaiba essential oil is great for pains and inflammation plus more. A therapeutic grade, like Dr. Sheltons, is the only kind to use on pets. Can be given in food or rubbed into the skin over the kidneys as an example.
7. Braggs brand apple cider vinegar can help with indigestion or tummy issues. Audrey didn’t need it often but when she did I would mix it 50/50 with water and syringe feed it. She hated it but within seconds would burp and feel better.
8. Therapeutic grade peppermint oil, ginger extract or Dr. Shelton’s GI Joe essential oil work great for tummy issues as well. I got sick to my tummy and used the GI Joe to help. Kept me from vomiting and soothed my tummy.
9. Learn about essential oils if you don’t already know. If you have a Facebook account, join AnimalEO’s page and sign up for Dr. Shelton’s Friday Fun Facts. I didn’t know about them early enough to be much use with Audrey (specifically Dr. Shelton’s oils) but I sure wish I had.

DON’T do ANY more vaccinations – not even rabies if you can at all avoid. Audrey was legally exempted from having to get the rabies vaccine for life. She wasn’t protected either as she only got her first shot (at six months) before diagnosis was made. No heartworm, flea/tick or anything like that either.

I know there’s things I’m forgetting but hopefully this is enough to give you a good jumping off point.. 🙂 Hugs to you and your baby boy!!!!

• This reply was modified 9 years, 11 months ago by Shawna.

[T]

Not what you want to hear, but remember that having an appetite IS a healthy thing! It does seem like certain foods can make dogs hungrier than others, though. I wonder if a lower-carb food would minimize this effect?

Tabitha
naturalalternativesvet.com

[El]

Hi sherrie l, welcome to DFA

Your instincts are correct! Your lab would benefit from a proper diet for his condition, and in my opinion that would be a LOW CARB wet food, preferably homemade, or commercial raw, cooked, or canned.

Diabetes is a disease in which the body either doesn’t produce enough insulin to correctly breakdown carbohydrates, or the body becomes resistant to the insulin it does make. Since diabetes always affects carbohydrate breakdown, it makes sense to limit carbs as much as possible. At least that’s the way I see it, and limiting carbs as much as possible is the best way to normalize blood sugars and avoid diabetic complications.

So, if you agree with me so far then I would like to offer you a few diet options;

1) Homemade, properly balanced, low carb, moderate fat. high protein, lightly cooked. I feel this is the best option. ANY change in diet should be done slowly, over a minimum of 2 weeks. If you want to try raw, I would first do a 2 week transition to lightly cooked, and then an additional 2 week transition from lightly cooked to raw. A good book to start you off is;

Any recipe for raw food that does NOT contain ground bones can be safely cooked. ANY changes in diet will also require an adjustment in insulin. Less carbs = less insulin, more carbs = more insulin. I would NOT change his diet without monitoring his blood sugars at home, at least 4 times a day during transitions. I would also consult a Vet who is willing to support you on a change to a low carb diet.

2) Any 5 star raw, cooked, or canned food that meets these guidelines;
Low carb = less than 15% of calories from carbohydrates
Moderate fat = less than 50% of calories from fat.
High protein = minimum, 35% of calories from protein
These are MY definitions and others may have different opinions on what constitutes low, moderate, or high.

5 star wet – /dog-food-reviews/wet/5-star/

5 star raw – /dog-food-reviews/raw/5-star/

Editors choice (a fee applies) – /editors-choice-landing/

I wish you and your pup the best 😉

PS – “My 11 year old lab was recently diagnosed with diabetes and is taking *15 mls.* of insulin twice a day.”

You mean 15 units. U-100 insulin has 100 units per mL, and U-40 insulin has 40 units per mL. Each line on an insulin syringe equals 1 unit, not 1 mL 😉

[Jenn H]

Sometimes giving them a “snack” between meals helps. Something like a little pumpkin or green beans. Always wet the dry w/ warm water and let soak for a few min. The kibble gets bigger.
My pup was the same way until I changed his food. He now eats 1/2 as much as the other food, is more satisfied and has saved me a lot of money.
My Lab mix acts like she never had a meal in her life every time someone opens the door their food is in. She literally goes right for the empty bag like she’s attacking a bad guy or something. She’d eat past exploding if possible. Apparently Labs are just that way. (I’ve only had GSDs and they aren’t like this.) They inhale their food and don’t know when to stop eating. It’s a crazy thing about them. I drown her food in warm water and use the slowest slow feeder I can find.
What I have noticed is every 10 yr old Lab I have ever seen is overweight and/or lumpy. She is not!!!!! She’s svelt, lean and muscular!!!
In winter I add whole grain oatmeal after it’s been cooked & cooled. This helps tremendously with keeping her from freezing on cold days. It’s fat free so she doesn’t get fat from it. I think it acts like hay or beet pulp does for horses. Just cold calories.
Very often a high protein, low carb diet works well. A small dog I would feed at least 3 times/day anyway as everything moves through them faster. I know that isn’t always possible for everyone.
You can also try mixing water and a little fat free chicken broth and freezing it. They’ll think they are getting a treat and it may take a while for them to eat it. Fat free frozen FAGE yogurt (it has nothing artificial or added sugar) works well too.

[Jenn H]

Wendeyzee your situation is eerily similar to mine when I lost my 2 boys. The first from torsion. I took him to the vet immediately, but that emergency vet was a quack and wasn’t doing anything to help. I literally had to break into the back area & “steal” him back. Took him to another emergency vet. 3 hrs later. (Still don’t know how he hung on that long.) He survived the surgery, but kept coding afterward. We had to let him go.
A few months later my other guy was diagnosed w/HSA. He didn’t wake up from the anesthesia. Honestly if I had to choose a way for my animals to go that’s it. Just go to sleep happy and not wake up. The vet did CPR for 45 min. I couldn’t bring myself to tell her to stop even tho I knew. My husband showed up and told her no more. He was my baby boy. They were almost 11 and just barely 8 respectfully. (SHEP is my avatar.) How could I go home to my 2 girls a second time empty handed???
I’m grateful a part of SHEP is still here. His niece is will turn 8 in April. My biggest fear is she will have the same diagnosis some day. She’s my best little friend. It’s been ages since I’ve had a GSD live to a respectable age of 13+. Sometimes I almost feel like feeding them crap food maybe wasn’t so bad. Those are the dogs that lived to see old age.
From what I have learned about cancer diets is high protein, low carb. Good luck finding any premade. Grain free tend to have even more carbs than with grain. Go figure.
There is a DNA test for this cancer I think. But I already know it’s a possibility with my baby girl.
I’ve been told it’s basically 50/50 if a dog gets cancer or not. If that holds true then statistically 1 of my girls would get it. This is a thought I try to block every time it pops in my head. I’d rather it be me. Let all bad things happen to me. Never them.

[anonymously]

I have been using this product (dry and canned) for 4 years now for 3 dogs (2 with issues)
with good results.

Nutrisca Salmon and Chickpea http://www.chewy.com/dog/dogswell-nutrisca-grain-free-salmon/dp/35033

Salmon, Menhaden Fish Meal, Peas, Chickpeas, Salmon Meal, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Pea Fiber, Flaxseed, Calcium Carbonate, Salmon Oil (a source of DHA), Dicalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Dried Eggs, Natural Flavor, Tomato Pomace, Carrots, Cranberries, Apricots, Choline Chloride, Zinc Proteinate, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Iron Proteinate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Folic Acid, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Proteinate, Biotin, Selenium Yeast, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Rosemary Extract

PS: It looks like chewy carries the dog food you mentioned http://www.chewy.com/dog/victor-yukon-river-salmon-sweet/dp/120706

[Ed R]

I have a female ACD just over 6 months old. I like to feed her a 50/50 mix of Orijen and Purina Savor both puppy. She is (as you are probably aware) hyper and very active. I have a fenced in yard were i run her daily. She just earned her way out of crate training and upped her activity because of this. She just hit the 28# mark and adding. The dog seems to love the food even the cat takes a piece or two. I picked the Orijen cause its 80% protein and low-glycemic. The Proplan provides more carbs for her energy level and activity increases after feeding. She seems to be doing well…..any suggestions are appreciated.

Tnx
Tyy

[Susan]

Hi Elena, if the Metronidazole helped then ask vet about Tylan Powder, it has less side effect & is suppose to have no side effects like Metronidazole has, Patches vet wanted Patch on low dose of Metronidazole for 6 months but he started acting weird & real paranoid after takin the Metronidazole for 1 month, so I tried the Tylan Powder 1/4 teaspoon once a day, you put 1/4 teaspoon in empty capsules & give with Dinner every night once a day, the Tylan Powder taste awful, so make sure you put in empty capsule, can turn them off meal… In America you once could buy the Tylan Powder over the counter from Pet Shops but I’ve read you now need a script from vet…
Join this Face Book group called “Dogs With Inflammatory Bowel Disorder”
someone on that site may know where to buy the Tylan Powder online, I live Australia & we need a script….also there’s a few dogs with Food Allergies & Food Intolerances….Have a look at IAMS Vet Formula Skin & Coat Plus Response KO, it’s just Kangaroo & Oat flour & Beet Pulp that makes poos firm, fat is 12% & no other ingredients to irritate the bowel…. https://www.iams.com/dog-food/veterinary-formula-dog-food-skin-coat-health-ko

I feed boiled chicken breast & boiled potatoes, broccoli & zucchini & add a small tin of salmon or make a big batch & buy the big tins of Salmon…. I don’t mix any kibble with the cooked meals, I feed 4 small meals a day, I give cooked for breakfast & dinner & kibble for lunch & a late dinner this way its not expensive feeding the cooked meals & the weight stays on… I feed a Fish & Rice kibble with no other ingredients…..

Boiled rice can irritate the bowel, my boy can not eat boiled rice, but he can eat kibbles with rice that’s been grounded up….

Can you find a kibble that is just turkey & rice or chicken & rice or lamb & rice where the fat is around 10-12% no higher?? fat can cause diarrhea….
Have you tried the “California Natural” Lamb & Rice it has just 4 ingredients, Lamb, brown rice, rice & sunflower oil, I don’t know if C/N is money back guaranteed, if it doesn’t work you can get money back, some kibbles are only guaranteed if the dog doesn’t eat the kibble, so Patch has not liked a few kibbles lol, the Pet Shops know Patch and are very good when we have returned kibbles, they didn’t mind….it becomes expensive when they cant eat a kibble….
A few dogs with IBD & Food Sensitivities are doing really well on the California Natural kibble, stay away from kibbles that have peas, barley, chick peas, lentils, too many ingredients, only limited ingredients with just 1 protein & 1 carb like the California Natural has… http://www.californianaturalpet.com/products/1181

You may need to see a specialist that specialises in IBD/food intolerances, my boy had an Endoscope & Biopsies done, then was put on Vet Diet “Eukanuba Intestinal” low Residue kibble, its just Chicken, rice & corn, that was the only vet diet that worked for him, he had to stay on the Eukanuba for 6-12 months to let his bowel heal, (he was a rescue) then the next 1-2 years I tried every kibble & found the only kibbles that work were kibbles with just 1 protein & 1 carb, no peas, gave bad wind pain & farts, kibbles with potatoes/sweet potatoes gave him diarrhea but he can eat cooked fresh potatoes & fresh sweet potatoes, so the potatoes in the kibbles mustn’t be fresh & green or rotten potatoes,thats why I like rice….
You will work it out hopefully but try & not let Penny have diarrhea too much, it will cause thickening of the bowel lining as she gets older…..ask vet about the Tylan Powder or try & buy it online, poos are firm the next day….as long as she isn’t eating something she is sensitive too..

[Jenn H]

I’m very sorry for your loss.
It sounds like he had a hemangiosarcoma. It’s a very very very sneaky disease. My 8 y/o GSD died from a hemangiosarcoma on his right aorta. And I have 2 friends who had dogs with it on their spleen as well.
The thing about this cancer is usually the bleeding of it that kills them, not the actual cancer cells.
SHEP (my 8 y/o) was being managed very well by the holistic treatment. It was the anesthesia that he had to have to be tapped that his heart couldn’t take.
My first friend whose boxer mix had this was put down a few days after diagnosis. I think he would’ve had a better outcome if she had a better vet and/or sought out a second opinion.
My other friend’s Rhodesian Ridgeback lived for years with his. She fed him a low carb high protein diet. Mainly dehydrated raw. He had to take Pepcid. She never did the surgery because of his age.
It’s a disease more commonly found in some breeds than others. GSDs tend to have it on right aorta. Having the niece of my dog who passed I am in constant fear that she will have the same fate.
My sympathies are with you. I know how devastating it is to lose a dog. Especially so suddenly.

[Susan]

That’s excellent, great news, so she has IBD like Patch, IBD covers a lot of health problems from the stomach, small bowel thru to the large bowel she’s very lucky its not EPI, I thought S.I.B.O as soon as you explained her poo’s & smelly breath, how long has your vet put her on the Metronidazole?? Patches vet was only giving me 10 days worth of Metronidazole tablets at first & the S.I.B.O kept coming back every 4-6months, from foods I was feeding & ingredients in kibbles & Vet Diets, I changed vets then I joined the EPI Face Book group & they said when a dog has S.I.B.O, vet needs to put them on the Metronidazole for 21-28 days, that’s when Patches new vet gave me about 4 repeat scripts of 21 days worth of Metronidazole tablets so when I start to see his poos going yellow & smelly & his breath smelling like fermenting food, I have to start Patch on the Metronidazole again, I just finished a 3 week course about 1-2 months ago, I had tried anew kibble, the Earthborn Holistic Ocean Fusion kibble it had Barley, Rye flour & Sweet Potatoes then about 3-4 weeks of eating the Earthborn Holistic kibble Patches poos were going yellow & sloppy, some poo’s look like the end had a condom on them (Colitis) so something in the new kibble he was sensitive too causing the colitis & causing the bacteria over growth…. then I read Barley is a High Fodmap carb, so now I avoid any kibbles with barley here’s a list of high Fodmap foods & Low Fodmap foods its for humans but you’ll get an idea what foods feed your girl & what foods to stay away from……..
http://www.ibsdiets.org/fodmap-diet/fodmap-food-list/

There’s a Human group on Face Book called “Fast tract Diet (Official Group)” run by Dr Norm Robillard, for S.I.B.O, Colitis, IBS, Acid Reflux & Hypochlorhydria-low stomach acid, Drs & vets prescribe ant acid meds thinking patient is making too much stomach acid when they have very low acid, a lot of really good info & links in this group. Dr Norm has a few books, what foods to avoid & to eat & how to change to a low Fodmap diet & avoid fermentable carbs like rice…
https://www.facebook.com/groups/FastTractDiet/

This is an excellent video it explains how some people cant digest carbohydrates & explains how bacteria lives off these carbs using them as energy to survive….. http://www.med.monash.edu/cecs/gastro/fodmap

[Howard J]

She does not take Metronidazole. We gave her Royal Canine low fat wet food a few hours ago, the ingredients are horrendous but she seems to be doing better. Probably will never give it to her again. Still looks like she is losing weight though.

Her breath does not smell good. Smells like putrid throw up, although it has gotten better. Her butthole seems to be inflamed too. I’ll try the mashed potatoes.

I’ll refrain from giving her a raw based diet, also I mine as well buy the Honest Kitchen food looks great! My only question is the Fromm wet food I have been feeding her has 44.63% Protein on a dry matter basis of 100 grams and 10.24% Fat on a dray matter basis of 100 grams. I can only imagine the fat content of Natural Instinct’s Venison Raw.

For Honest Kitchen the Zeal Dog food profile says Protein is 38.40% on a Dry matter basis and Fat is 9.25%, which is less than the Fromm wet food. However, it does not say the amount of grams, which would be my only concern. If its 100grams then she would likely do better on this food, in part because of the low protein and fat content and the better ingredients. The Fiber is much lower than Fromm’s wet food however the carbs are higher, not sure if that is good or bad for pancreatitis.

http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/media/wysiwyg/AAFCO/ZEAL-nutrient-profile-1.pdf
http://frommfamily.com/products/four-star/dog/can/shredded-chicken/technical-analysis/

Also, the As-Is Basis of fat per 100 grams of the Fromm is 2.10, which is lower than the As Received (8.5%) as well as the As Served Hydrated (4.25%). Yet, Fromms dry matter basis of 100g, the fat % is higher than all the categories in the Zeal Dog Food Nutrient Profile.

Really confusing!

[Susan]

Hi Howard, did she take Metronidazole (Flagyl)? its an antibiotic for the stomach & bowel, also smell her breath does it smell & what of?? that’s how I know what’s happening with my boy when I smell his breath, when my boy starts doing the yellow mushy poos I have a few scripts of Metronidazole the vet has given me & I put Patch on the Metronidazole with food for 10 days & change diet, also I cook potatoes instead of rice, boiled rice can irritate the bowel…. Australian vets are using boiled potatoes now instead or the old fashion boiled rice..
When Patch has had the gurgling pinning bowel noises it was either from the boiled rice or an ingredient he was sensitive too, then over the years I found he has food sensitives…. He has had Pancreatitis when I first rescued him, vet put him on a vet diet for his skin allergies & the fat was toooo high at 19%…..now I cook chicken breast, potatoes, broccoli, zucchini, sweet potatoes, it depends some days I add Kangaroo rissoles some days or I add salmon in spring water drained, I put it all thru a blender for a few seconds….
I cant get The Honest Kitchen in Australia if I could I’d be feeding Patch the “Zeal” the fat is only 8.50% its low in carbs & limited ingredients & fish as protein so easy to digest, for the days I’m lazy…..http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/dog-food/zeal

I wouldn’t be feeding a raw diet with those symptoms, or if you do want to feed a raw diet, I went thru a Naturopath cause Patch was diagnosed with IBD & needs low fat diet & has Skin Allergies the raw worked for his skin but not his stomach (IBD) he kept regurgitating & burping up the raw Kangaroo & blended raw veggies but when I bake the kangaroo into rissoles & boil the same veggies, he’s OK, so I cook instead now & freeze meals…..

Sounds like you just haven’t found the right diet yet or she may do what happens with Patch, he needs his foods changed every month when I feed kibbles or he starts reacting to an ingredient, I posted a link about this I’ll try & find it, he cant stay on the same kibble too long he starts doing yellow sloppy poos….
Go supermarket get a couple brown potatoes, 1 small sweet potatoes, 1 zucchini & a small broccoli head, peel boil & put in containers in the fridge also maybe change the chicken to turkey or try the chicken & potato & see if there’s any gurgling pinning bowel noises & yellow mushy poo, if its still making loud noises change the protein, no chicken…maybe at first just do the chicken & potato & see if there’s improvement in stools, if there is then add some zucchini wait 2 days look at poos if poos are firm then add broccoli or whatever you want to add, then after a couple of weeks start adding some tin salmon in spring water drained to get all the healthy omegas & vitamins from the salmon, I add 1/2 a small tin per meal but you could make a few meals for a couple of days having a smaller dog… if you do see vet ask for a script for some Metronidazole its good have in cupboard when this happens, she may have too much bad bacteria in the stomach/bowel (S.I.B.O) & needs the metronidazole to fix everything up again….