[theBCnut]

Hi Mary

That sounds like the start of a nice rotation. If you end up being anything like the rest of us, our dogs love getting something new so much that we tend to keep trying new food after new food. Three would never do anymore. Have fun!

[Sully’sMom]

Hi, I’ve been absent for a bit….from commenting, always reading! A brand I never hear mentioned or recommended here is Nutrisca. Any thoughts? I got a trial size bag from PetFlow and was under the impression that it is an excellent food, yet it never pops up in these discussions…

[cramfrominbobin]

I am a new puppy owner, 2 black lab mixes about 4 months old. I never knew there was so much to learn about puppy nutrition, this forum has been fantastic! I’m incredibly sorry if this is a repeat, I’ve read through so many of the topics I think I’ve just confused myself..

First off, I’d like to thank Hound Dog Mom for the great list you put together. It has been really helpful. Now to my question – I would like to start rotating their food and was wondering if these 3 would be good to switch between. They are currently on Wellness Core Puppy and I was thinking about adding Nature’s Variety Instinct Rabbit Meal and Earthborn Holistic Coastal Catch or Meadow Feast to the rotation. Does this sound ok?

Thanks so much!!
Mary

[Hound Dog Mom]

I believe the link is currently around page 15. There are several brands of raw food on the list.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[kobe]

THANKS HDM,

I CANT FIND WHAT PAGE THE LINK IS ON–CAN YOU LET ME KNOW SO I CAN READ IT
LASTLY,WHAT BRAND OF RAW FOOD,IF ANY WOULD YOU SUGGEST FOR A 5 MONTH OLD BERNESE PUP?

hound dog mom–if you have 60 seconds-call me at my cell 9177166149 as i finger type- quite slowly–i can get my thoughts out much quicker talking than finger typing–i guarantee i will keep it one minute or less

thanks again,
craig
kobe’s dad

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Kobe –

I think Nature’s Variety has fairly positive comments overall. I personally feel it’s one of the best kibbles available. The Instinct LID Turkey, Instince Rabbit, Prairie Puppy and Prairie Large Breed Puppy are all appropriate for large breed puppies. Ziwipeak is a wonderful food, however I wouldn’t recommend feeding it to a large breed puppy due to its high calcium levels. Raw is preferable to kibble if you can afford it. If you scroll back a few pages there’s a link to a pdf file which lists appropriate foods.

[kobe]

HI,

I am a new member and need advice on my bernese mountain dog pup in NYC
unfortunately, he was sent to me from he west coast with giardia intestinal infection–the good news is that after multiple courses of metronidazole and fenbendazole,i think this parasite is gone—the pup is 5 months old this week–i am starting to slowly transition him off the Hills I AND D—i was recommended the natures variety-large breed puppy kibble which i have been adding slowly—–BUT THE COMMENTS I HAVE READ ON THIS FOOD AND COMPANY ON THIS WEBSITE HAVE NOT BEEN THAT POSITIVE!!!

I KNOW I NEED to limit the calcium but i am confused by what i should be feeding him—regular kibble vs raw food vs ziwipeak?

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!

[DogFoodie]

Hi guys!

I feel like Sandy would recommend Nutri Source Small & Medium Breed Puppy at 513 kcals/cup. I haven’t personally used it, but I know she’s mentioned before that the kibble size is very tiny. Since I haven’t used it, I can’t speak for the kibble size personally, but I trust Sandy’s advice. It’s not grain free, but it’s well tolerated and I trust the brand and I know Sandy and Patty do as well. Nutri Source is also a very budget friendly food. They always offer coupons (text “source” to 55678 for a chance to win a free bag and a $2.00 coupon if you’re not a winner) and have a loyalty program (buy 12, get one free on dry and cans).

Nature’s Logic and Amicus are very small and when I last used Canine Caviar, that seemed small as well if memory serves. Orijen Puppy is the only Orijen formula I haven’t used, but all of the Orijens that I have used are some of the largest kibbles I’ve used. Abady granular would be easy for her to eat and is very nutrient dense (over 800 kcal/cup) ~ it’s grainy like brown sugar and the philosophy behind the food takes some getting used to. Abady isn’t rated here and gets a bad rap from lots of folks, but I tried it and had no issues with it whatsoever. My Cavalier is currently eating Castor & Pollux Ultramix right now and she loves it ~ they’re small kibbles and they’re really cute…, if that matters! They’re little hearts. : )

Solid Gold Just a Wee Bit is tiny, but is one of their products that’s made by Diamond, so I wouldn’t recommend it for that reason. I’ve used Wellness Small Breed, which is tiny, but my pup wasn’t thrilled with it, same with Artemis Fresh Mix.

What about giving her kibble a whirl in the blender, coffee grinder or hand held food chopper?

I still need to start the card file I keep saying I’m going to start and take pictures of all my kibbles when I open something different. : )~

[kobe]

to hound dog mom

i need your advice—i have a 5 month old gorgeous bernese puppy in new york city–
unfortunately,he came to me 2 months ago with giardia intestinal infection from the breeder-therefore he required hills I AND D kibble along with boiled chicken and rice from a restaurant

i have been now converting him slowly to natures variety large puppy kibble–BUT i am fearful that this is not a good preparation-i value your advice
if you have a minute please call me on my cell 9177166149 to briefly discuss

thanks so much

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi shilohsue –

I’m familiar with Missing Link. Looking at their puppy supplement (assuming that’s what you’d be using) there’s nothing in it that should pose a problem however I’m personally not impressed with their line of supplements – there are much better supplements out there. The biggest issue that I have with their supplements is that they all contain molasses – in other words sugar, it also only has on strain of probiotics which isn’t going to be of much benefit. Some supplements I’d recommend:

WellyTails Puppy Smart Start (I used this for one of my dogs until she was 6 months old) it contains colostrum, marine algae and microencapsulated fish oil which provide DHA and EPA, 6 strains of probiotics, 7 digestive enzymes, antioxidants and whole foods.

Nature’s Logic All-Food Fortifier which is completely whole food based and contains 5 strains of probiotics and 4 enzymes.

Dr. Harvey’s Formative Years for Puppies and Young Dogs which is an herb and whole food based supplement.

Frozen foods would be a better choice than freeze-dried foods because they’re less processed and they’re much cheaper to feed.

[Duke The Boxer]

I was trying to looking for something that wasnt too many colories as I’m still training him to walk on a leash and to potty on the grass and not the outside tile; which isn’t a huge deal but I want him to know where is the place to poop. Haha. Back to the training treats I was reading maybe something like baby carrots? I took him to the vet today and he is 22 pounds at close to 16 weeks old. I got a fecal test done and nothing came up. He looks healthy, the ribs are barely visible but honestly I rather keep him a littler slimmer before he gets neutered so he will gain not as much weight. He is still getting the proper food portions and today I just started rotating in wellness core.

[theBCnut]

Thanks for the good thoughts and especially the prayers everyone.

My favorite treats and my dogs too are the freeze dried foods, lots of meat and not much else, very little processing.

[Hound Dog Mom]

My favorite training treats are ZiwiPeak food, Vital Essential’s freeze-dried nibblets and Nature’s Variety Instinct freeze-dried raw (in the nuggets). I like to use complete and balanced foods for treats whenever possible and the dogs seem to really like these foods.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi avamom –

I would recommend feeding a food of the list of appropriate large and giant breed puppy foods posted here. Blue Buffalo Wilderness and Nutro Natural Choice are not appropriate foods for a growing giant breed puppy such as a Mastiff. The Nature’s Variety Instinct Limited Ingredient Turkey formula or the rabbit formula might be a good food to try. Sometimes with sensitive dogs it’s trial and error until you figure out which foods are causing the issues.

[Hershy]

Hi, Patty,
Thanks for your post. Well said about the topic of Vets and animal nutrition…always room for improvement, right?…by me, too! I definitely plan to do a much better job feeding my “kids” a delicious and healthy diet.

HI, HDM & Patty,
And looks like I may get a second chance with my Charlotte girl. I am thankful that Charlotte’s cancer screen came back negative yesterday evening, but Vet held back saying there was none, in that she said she sampled only a small portion, so could still be early stages. I’ll take that, and look at it as another chance to do a better job with her. If she has it, at least it is very early.
Thanks, HDM and Patty, for encouraging me to go ahead with the test. Of course I needed to know. Not sure what I was thinking.
Now, moving forward with her new diet, mostly raw. I will start with her, and slowly add the other 3. Although I have already transitioned all to 4 & 5 star kibble. I top my puppy, Crystal’s, Nutri-Source Lg. Breed puppy food with Merrik Grain Free Tripe, and the 3 big dogs have been getting Pro Balance Canned as a topper.
I can’t thank you all enough for this education I continue to receive. How I nourish my dogs will keep improving, and I will definitely keep in touch with this forum.
Will soon add the raw food forum to my list of preferred reading : )
Patty, hope your dog’s result was at least as good.
Thanks, again!

[EHubbman]

Ok! Back from the vet!

I was seriously not impressed with the care we got from the one I’d been bringing family pets to since I was six, so we went elsewhere. That seriously miffed me. They’d been great with all our other pets, but then I brought in my little guy at 14 weeks (!) and I think the vet just had it out for him because he’s seen as a bully breed. Vets shouldn’t be breedist, methinks, because they see good and bad examples of all breeds, big and small, bad rep or not. Off my soapbox, though. She wouldn’t believe me when I said he had tapeworms and even brought in a sample with the segment clearly sitting right on top, among other things. I talked to her about giardia and she’s like, no he doesn’t have it, without testing and seemed quite reluctant upon my insistence of it.

SO! New vet, recommended from a friend, who also happens to be a vet tech there, which was wonderful. They were going to run the EPI and fecal pathogen test, but the vet did a wellness check on him and his body condition, activity level, and personality were all awesome, so we’re starting first with a diet change. She said the funny color stools were because the last vet’s response to my saying “please help, diarrhea for a month now” was just to throw antibiotics at him that did nothing, so his gut is all sort of out of whack. The did a wellness check, fecal float, coccidia and giardia tests, and a few other things I don’t remember off the top of my head.

We’re trying a royal canin RX GI food (ewewew, I cringe at the ingredient list!) for two weeks. So for two weeks, all he’s allowed to ingest is the GI food, and boiled chicken as training treats. She wants to keep him on the Fortiflora (because she’s used to it) just for now, but when I asked her about the 15 strain supplement you told me about, she was all for it. We went for the abrupt change because his gut is so messed up, and once he’s stable we’re going to slowly transition him to raw. I love that I found a vet that is all for raw and can’t wait to help me swap to it!!! She seems amazing, and I love her team. 🙂 If, though, the 2 week seriously limited diet does nothing, though, then he gets to go through a gauntlet of testing. She’s almost completely certain, though, that it’s dietary and not anything seriously wrong, which helps me breathe easier.

Although I’m not a fan of the GI food ingredients and fortiflora, I’m ok with it for now, just to get him sorted. I want to give this vet a chance to try what she knows before I just go “Ew, no.” and be the brat that asks for help but won’t accept what’s given as help. That and because she wants to start working him toward raw asap. Who knows. We’ll see where it goes.

Not sure I’m gonna be able to deal with the puppy eyes when he doesn’t get to have his dried trachea…or bully sticks… or duck feeties…. o.o Haha!

[avamom]

Hi, I am new to this forum. I have been referencing DFA since I first put down the deposit on my English mastiff puppy. She is will be 7 months old this week and we have had a time. I was feeding Blue Buffalo Wilderness Puppy for the first 5 months. She had a rash and I thought it might be a food allergy she was on flea meds and I never saw any. It wasn’t horrible but it was constant. I took her off thinking maybe it was the chicken and put her on Natural Choice Sweet Potato and Venison. It got much worse within a week. Got to looking at ingredients and realized there were sweet potatoes in the BBWP as well. Tried Natural Choice Venison and Potato better but still not gone (this one had carrots). We discovered a beta carotene or at least an orange vegetable allergy. Took her off everything and cooked her rice or potatoes and ground venison for a month. She got too lean and even though she was getting a multi vitamin I was concerned about proper nutrition. Help! What can I feed her that is good for her overall health and proper growth, but that does not cause allergic reactions.

[theBCnut]

Hi Hersy

I agree, once a vet decides they are going to go large, or small animal, I wish they would get into nutrition, realizing that good food will have their patients around a lot longer. But for the most part, the vets that I worked with thought they were doing pretty good. They fell for Hill’s pitch, hook, line, and sinker. I don’t understand how they can believe they are qualified to feed their on children, if they don’t believe the average person is capable of figuring out what is good for their dog. I wish when it comes to nutrition, that they would just send people to nutritionists or at least suggest that the owner do some research. Admittedly, some people are just happy to have their vet make the decision for them, but we aren’t all like that.

[Hershy]

Extremely valid point, Patty!
I shouldn’t be so hard on them. I guess if they didn’t push certain foods as “best” for your dog (when I know it isn’t true), I wouldn’t have such a hard time with it. But you’re right about how it would take many, many years. Although if I were a Vet, I would want to keep learning, especially about nutrition, knowing that Any living creature IS only as good as what it eats. At least choose a species to focus on, whatever it is, know what I mean?

[Hershy]

You’re right, Patty. Thanks! I sure hope your girl will be fine! This cancer thing is an epidemic!
These are knee-jerk reactions, I guess, because I’m afraid of what I might find… my suspicion is have I been poisoning my poor sweet girl all these years with all that bad food?
Thanks, and thanks, again, HDM!

[Hershy]

Thank you, for getting back to me so quickly. I appreciate your wisdom and advice. You’re right. I need to know. I didn’t mean to make the cost of the test seem like the first consideration. I am on a pretty tight budget, but I will find a way to do what I need to do. I am putting the cart before the horse. I pray she doesn’t have cancer. She’s my special girl! I guess I have to prepare myself for the worst. I called them and told them to go ahead with the test. But I do know, if she does have it, I will not make her undergo a bunch of chemical treatment (as far as I know). I will to the alternative route for treatment, if necessary. And thank you for the information on what things to avoid, and to give. She is going to start on a raw diet as soon as I can get it together! I was making my own for part of last year, but got too busy. Poor Charlotte has been on inferior food for most of her life because I didn’t know any better. I have always switched up foods a little, but usually didn’t end up being to a food that was any better for her. They all claim to be the best. I am so grateful for this site. Why don’t dog food companies and especially VETS! learn about dog nutrition?? And then to recommend SCIENCE DIET!? I just wish I had seen this site 5 years ago,and maybe Charlotte wouldn’t be having these issues now.

I’m picking Charlotte up from the vet this evening, so am hoping for the best.
Thanks, again.

[Hershy]

Thank you, Patty and HDM, for the food rotation information.. a huge help!

I have an emergency-type question. The vet wants to do cancer testing on my Mother dog, Charlotte, and is at the Vet now waiting for my answer.
A little background:
She has had allergies all her life, but after weaning her last (and final) litter, she had the worst allergy attack I have ever seen on her. I have her on meds to help her with the itching, maintained her thyroid meds, and used ear cleaner for her ears daily. I also changed her to a 5 star food about a month ago (after learning about them), and started her on Dinovite (what is your opinion about Dinovite?). It was time for her comprehensive checkup at the Vet about 2 weeks ago, so while there, so they were fairly alarmed about her allergies, but especially about the swelling in her lymph nodes. They gave her antibiotics, anti fungal meds, and said to continue the ear cleaner and if the lymph nodes don’t go down, she would most likely want to start cancer testing.
That’s where we are today. they didn’t go down enough to notice, so she wants to test. I ask if the lymph nodes could be swollen due to the allergy attack still being active. She said could be, she guessed. Also, she wants to lance her ear to remove a clot that formed from a hematoma (from shaking her head) that stopped bleeding, and clotted before we could drain it.
This all sounds bleak to me. I do not want my dog to undergo cancer treatment. I don’t believe they can cure my dog of cancer, if she has it. The test is $60. Not sure I want to know.
Is there a special diet to help with the immune system of a dog. I’m at a loss. I do not always trust the vet, and debate with them quite frequently about how I want to treat my dogs. I love them all, and want what’s best for them (4).
Please help me know what direction to move on this cancer topic. I am really nervous about it!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hersy –

Those look like good foods. When I fed kibble I switched to a new food at the end of each bag. As Patty mentioned, some people prefer to have multiple bags open at once. This would be fine if you wanted to buy really small bags or have multiple dogs because food should be used within 4 weeks of opening (tops). I personally preferred to get through each bag as quickly as possible to ensure maximum freshness so I only had one bag open at a time and only purchased an amount that would take two to three weeks or less to use up. I rotated canned and fresh food toppers daily. You may need to gradually transition from brand to brand at first, but once your dog becomes accustomed to variety you should be able to move from food to food with no transition. There’s really no method to it, just switch frequently.

[theBCnut]

Hi Hersy

I can tell you what I do. I have 3 dogs so I go though a 25 lb bag pretty fast, so I have multiple bags open and switch foods daily. But I had to work my dogs up to that. At first I started gradually switching when I got down to a little less than half a bag and I switched every bag. Then I started speeding up transitions to only about 3 days. Then I started switching cold turkey weekly between whatever I had open and adding in a new food when I ran out of one of them. Now, I switch daily. Right now I have 3 different foods open, but over the winter I had 4. When I use up a bag I start something new in the rotation.

[Hershy]

HDM or anyone else,
This may be a really dumb question, but I’m not clear on how to rotate food for my almost 16 week old puppy and big dogs. Is it best to rotate to another brand after emptying a bag, or have 2 or 3 brands open at a time for rotating daily? I have finally chosen some brands for my pup’s food rotation (fairly reasonably priced 4 & 5 star foods) :

Innova Large Breed Puppy Dry Dog Food
Pro Pac Performance Puppy Premium Puppy Food
Nutri-Source Large Breed Puppy-Chicken and Rice

Does this look like a good list for my pup? It was difficult finding locally,so needed to order from a couple places, since no one had all of what I wanted.
I am topping with tripe.
What is the best way to rotate these? I plan to keep searching for foods I can afford, for changing to after these.
Thanks for your help!

[mommyvar]

Thank you HDM.

I have an 11 week old St Bernard puppy, and looking for a good food. I am leaning towards Nature’s Variety Instinct Rabbit, but someone had mentioned TLC. I think I will stick with NVI. Thank you.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi mommyvar –

I’ve heard of TLC but I’ve never used it and don’t know anyone that has so I can’t give any personal experiences with the product. It looks like a decent food although, at 26%, it’s a little lower in protein than anything I’d feed. Also, at $63.95 for 30 lbs., the price is pretty steep for a grain-inclusive food with only 26% protein. It’s by no means a bad food but I think you could get a much better food for that amount of money.

[mommyvar]

HDM, have you ever heard of TLC pet foods?

https://www.tlcpetfood.com/ingedients/ingredients.asp?ProductType=DOGFOOD#

Can I get your opinion.

[Hound Dog Mom]

FOS stands for Fructooligosaccharides. FOS is a prebiotic – food for probiotics.

[theBCnut]

FOS is a prebiotic, food for the probiotics.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi EHubbman –

I would try to discourage him from drinking lake water – although not highly likely it is possible for dogs to contract giardia or leptospirosis from doing this. Has he been tested for Giardia (giardia can cause yellowish diarrhea) and is he on a quality multi-strain probiotic and digestive enzyme supplement? If not, I would have him tested for giardia (you have to specifically ask for this test, it won’t show up on a regular fecal and make sure your vet sends the sample to a lab – much more accurate than in-house testing) and get him on digestive supplements. You may also want to give an herbal digestive supplement (such as The Honest Kitchen’s Perfect Form) a try – some people have had a lot of success with herbal digestive supplements.

Orange tinged stool can be a sign of small intestine bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) – meaning the intestinal flora is off balance. This is common secondary condition with dogs who have endocrine pancreatic insufficiency (EPI). I would definitely discuss this with your veterinarian.

The Zignature Trout & Salmon formula is appropriate for large breed puppies and would be worth a shot if you want to try Zignaure – I believe the formulas are all fairly similar except for different proteins sources.

Raw would be a great option – especially for a sensitive dog. If this is something you’re willing and able to do that’s wonderful. It will be necessary to do a lot of research prior to embarking on a raw feeding regimen, however. I would recommend checking out dogaware(dot)com and picking up a copy of Steve Brown’s book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet.” You can also check out the recommended raw menus thread in the raw food forum – I have many of my crew’s menus posted.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Is Mila eating a homemade diet or commercial diet? (Sorry I’m drawing a blank here – I know you were trying raw but I can’t remember if you switched her completely to homemade raw or are just supplementing a commercial food with raw). If you’re feeding predominantly a commercially prepared balanced food (be it raw, kibble, etc.) I personally feel Mila would benefit much more from a whole food based supplement as opposed to a supplement such as this which consists of mostly synthetic vitamins and minerals (for more details on the benefits of whole food supplementation you can read the post I just made to sharkie on the large breed puppy thread). If she’s eating homemade food and you were planning on using this as a vitamin/mineral supplement, it’s not going to supply adequate levels of vitamin e or manganese (I don’t think I see managanese?) and I still feel that a whole food based supplement should be given in conjunction with a multivitamin/mineral. Sorry if any of this is repeated information or was already discussed, my brain isn’t all here today and I’m forgetting who I’ve talked to, what was said by who, etc. lol

[EHubbman]

Also have a little guy with possible sensitivities? Needing some advice here, because I’m at a complete loss.

The whole timeline: 8 weeks, brought Dom home, had him on TOTW Puppy, which he stopped eating. We then switched to NV Rabbit, which he liked but got a smidge bored with, so I started adding different canned toppers. This whole time, his stools were normal and he was doing great.
After the small back of NV Rabbit, we switched to NV LID Turkey, which he did fine with for 2 weeks. After 2 weeks, though, he started getting diarrhea. In those 2 weeks, though, he also went swimming (and drinking) in a lake. He also go to play with his sister who, while she didn’t have fleas biting her, she had fleas on her (owner was in process of getting rid of them, I didn’t know this till later.). With how they were rough housing, I’m sure Dom ate a few fleas along the way.

So he has this diarrhea, and it’s not really going away. His stools softened then loosened. Took him to the vet and she gave him metronidazole (his stools were just soft, no mucus or blood) which did nothing for him. I took out the canned toppers, which also did nothing. I talked to a vet friend, and we talked about a few different things, including getting him on a bland diet to help sort him out. I went out to clean up the dog yard before this, though, and found a rice-sized white …thing? In his stool. Talked to the vet friend again, she said it was tapeworm. We ran into the vet, got Droncit and tylen powder (wormer and antibiotic.) So he was on a bland diet, took the dewormer. Had a solid stool full of odd white stuff (shed worms), Kept him on bland for a week with the antibiotics, and he did great. As soon as I started slowly mixing the NV LID Turkey back in, though, his stools got soft again. He also, though, went swimming in a different lake and probably drank some of that water, too. So I kept with the half and half (bland and kibble) to make sure it wasn’t the lake water upsetting his tummy. It wasn’t, so I went to find different food for him.

The gal I talked to at the local food store is suggesting Zignatture LI Lanb for him, but it’s not on the list of approved foods. What, in your opinion, should I do now? He’s currently back to bland, which I’m really not fond of because he’s not getting the nutrients he needs. This morning’s stool was firm, but slightly orange, and had two odd white things in it. Not sure what they were.

Should I take him to a different vet to get him a full work up, switch foods (and what to?), or…? This is my first time as an adult having a pup, and I’m really just lost now, because nothing seems to be working. I want to make sure and get him the best nutrition I possibly can.
Another friend and I spoke about just taking him full raw which, at this point, if it’s going to work for him, I’m not opposed to doing it but have no idea where to start and how to balance it for him.

Thanks for listening, all, and for any help or advice you have.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Jessica –

I’m so glad that I was able to help you 🙂

If you’re using the canned food as only a topper (as in it’s going to be less then 20% of the puppy’s diet) it’s fine to feed a canned food that’s not designed for puppies or that may be a bit too high in calcium. If the canned food was going to be comprising a significant portion of the pup’s diet, then you would want to be sure that the food is either approved for growth or all life stages and that the calcium levels are within the appropriate range. I’ve personally never used Kirkland Cuts and Gravy (I live in the middle of nowhere I’ve never even seen a Costco! lol) but it seems to get good feedback on DFA and it has a 5 star rating. From what I hear it’s very budget friendly so it would definitely be worth a try. Another suggestion I would make if the puppy is being picky is Tripett. Tripett is wonderful for picky eaters (it’s very rare that a do will turn their nose up to tripe) and it’s great for large breed puppies due to tripe’s naturally balanced but low ratio of calcium to phosphorus. It’s not a balanced food, it’s just plain canned green tripe and designed to be a topper only. It’s on the pricey side (I believe around $2.70 per can last time I checked) so a trick I recommend to entice picky eaters and to stretch out the can it to just take a couple spoonfuls (trust me, that’s all it will take) and mash it in up in some warm water to create a “gravy.” Pour this over the kibble and mix it well making sure all the kibble is coated.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Sharfie –

It does have some beneficial ingredients (probiotics, enzymes, EFA’s and glucosamine) but it also has a lot of synthetic vitamins and minerals. Adding additional vitamins and minerals to a balanced commercial food really isn’t necessary and probably won’t provide any benefit to the dog. You couldn’t certainly discuss the supplement with your vet though if you wish to continue with it. Personally if it were me I’d just add plain yogurt or kefir, tinned sardines and digestive enzymes a few days a week or add a digestive supplement with enzymes and probiotics and a quality human-grade fish oil. There are also a lot of whole food based supplements available such as Nature’s Logic All-Food Fortifier, Nupro, Wholistic Canine Complete, Wysong’s Wild Things, Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Daily Boost, Dogzymes Cornucopia, Dr. Harvey’s Whole Food Based Multi-Vitamin, Udo’s Choice Pet Essentials, Carnivora’s Earth Greens etc. etc. Or you could even mix your own whole food supplement which is a lot cheaper. When I make my whole food supplement I purchase bulk ingredients from Swanson’s or Starwest Botanicals and combine them in the desired proportions. My general recipe is part kelp, 1 part spirulina, 1 part alfalfa, 1 part wheatgrass and 1 part bee pollen – occasionally I’ll sub in something else (chlorella, barley grass, sprouted chia, etc. for one of the other ingredients for variety). I also give things like glandulars, colostrum, etc. It’s nearly impossible to “overdose” on whole foods, the nutrients provided by whole foods are better utilized by the body and whole “superfoods” fill the nutritional gaps by adding phytonutrients, cartenoids, etc. that aren’t found in kibble or and that aren’t provided by synthetic multivitamins.

[Jessica1]

Hi H.D.M,
Thank you so much for all the information you have given me on grain vs. non grain, mixing etc. I felt lost before I came across your helpful advice. You have made this learning experience a lot less confusing.
I am now giving my boy the topper of Wellness just for puppy, which he loves, and I did start to slowly start the rotation process with Wellness Core grain free, unfortunately he will not eat it. He just does not like it. The Organix he will eat, of course he loves the topper and eats that first and only eats the dry when it’s all that’s left but he will eat it. But for some reason the Wellness Core he will actually spit out! Brat! He is as picky as my daughter! So I am going to try some other grain free brands. I would like to only give him the can but that going to get costly at $2.60 a can. (Still looking into the whole raw thing and building up my courage about that, ha ha) Takoda is now 10 to 11 weeks and at 18.4 lbs, the vet is happy with his weight and growth, I was wondering if you could tell me what you know about Kirkland Cuts. I see that it has 5 stars on this site but one I wasn’t sure it was suitable for large breed puppies and the protein level seemed a little low compared to Wellness puppy but I was hoping you could give me your advice on this. I have been looking for another can food to use as a topper (I don’t want to be locked into just one) do you have a suggestion for me, I’ve been looking at all the 5 stars on this site but I know that puppies requirements are different and they really are not laid out for these big guys. Thank you so much.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi sharfie –

It’s fine to supplement a dog’s diet with whole foods but I would avoid supplements that contain synthetic vitamins and minerals when feeding a balanced commercial food unless advised to do so by a veterinarian – this is especially critical for puppies because they are more sensitive to vitamin and mineral deficiencies and excesses than adult dogs. I found the website for ProBalance but I can’t locate an ingredients list. Is it a whole food based supplement or does it contain synthetic vitamins and minerals?

[sharfie]

Hi HDM-
Should a puppy, who is eating one of the foods on your list, get a vitamin supplement? My 3 year old gets ProBalance added to his food and I was wondering if my 6 month old should be getting it too.

Thank you in advance.

[twinelm]

I did find in my research that the Large Puppy food really isn’t all that bad. There seems to be a lot of inconsistency with many of the others. Recalls, etc. So I guess I will just try it and see.

[twinelm]

HDM,
He is a Bullmastiff. As fast as they grow, I was surprised at the reported Pro Plan users. I am thinking there may be some disingenuity going on though since the breeder WORKS for them in marketing so she may be getting assurances that yes, they are feeding it when they are not. Thank you SOOO much for doing this research. Storm’s Mom replied to my post in the general comments on puppy food and sent me that link. I am busy cross checking what I can find and afford and how it compares to the breeder’s food (so I can talk to her about it). I don’t want it to be a deal breaker but I am having issues with feeding a puppy something for 18 months I know is pretty much a terrible product.
Lynn

[Anonymous]

THanks! I will look into those! I definitely don’t want to feed him crap! 😉 I would love to just feed raw all the time, but currently its not doable for us. We are a pretty crunchy family, and rarely buy processed foods.. Dog food being the biggest processed purchase we make. I will keep an eye on the ingredients 🙂

THanks!

[Hound Dog Mom]

I twinelm –

If you scroll back a few pages there’s a link to a pdf file with an extensive list of grain-inclusive, grain-free and raw foods appropriate for large and giant breed growth. Two of the Nature’s Variety Instinct formulas are listed, I didn’t check into the 4Health grain-free line because it’s only rated 3.5 stars but I checked into the grain inclusive line and none of the foods are appropriate for large/giant breed growth. What breed is the puppy?

[twinelm]

I am contemplating co owning a very large breed show puppy 130# at maturity with a breeder who happens to work for a very large commercial dog food company. She says all of the other puppies who went to show homes also are feeding that company’s Large Breed Puppy formula (except one who feeds raw) which happens to have a 2.5 star rating here. I feed my rescues 4-Health grain free and have fed Nature’s Variety Instinct prior to that so I have for years had a “thing” for proper nutrition and LOVE LOVE LOVE this website. I am horrified at the thought of feeding that food to the pup for the next year or 18 months. Can you help me figure out what to feed? And maybe convince her it will be okay? Puppy is 3 months old now. Thanks,

[Duke The Boxer]

Thank you very much hdm. You have been great great help! I hope your doggies are doing good! Oh by the way I asked dr Tim if the pursuit dog food was too much calories for my puppy and he said the pursuit would work just as well as his all life stages formula. I’m not too sure why he didnt label it as all life stages. Could you possibly recomend a 4 star or 4.5 star puppy food that is a little cheaper than wellness core? I want to eventually rotate his food more. I was thinking around the same price range as earthborn holistic but maybe something with a little more protein.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Certainly, if he has a sensitivity to chicken. You may want to try supplementing with a quality fish oil and coconut oil. If this doesn’t help anything I’d try a chicken-free food and see if that solves the issue. The difficult thing when it comes to sensitivities – if that is what this reaction is being caused by – is that a dog can be sensitive to any ingredient. There are some common culprits (such as chicken, soy, corn, wheat, grains in general, white potatoes, dairy and eggs) but it could also be to any other ingredient he’s eating. If the issue continues keep track of the ingredients in the foods you feed so you can compare ingredient panels and try to eliminate the culprit.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I agree with Patty – I wouldn’t consider a GSP to be a large breed so I wouldn’t worry about the calcium levels. Unless the breeder tells you differently. I wouldn’t do TOTW – it’s manufactured by Diamond. I have used Native in the past and I think it’s a great food and very reasonably priced. I would go with the level IV formula (this is what I used) – it’s rated 5 stars and great for active dogs. Fromm is great too. There’s not reason you couldn’t rotate between the two brands or even try other brands.

[Duke The Boxer]

Okay hound dog mom. Thank you for your response. I was talking to dr Tim and he said it was okay for puppies and it had a pretty low calcium %. I just got in the mail today wellness core puppy formula and I will follow up in a couple weeks to say how duke responds to the food. One question I have is that he has been kind of itchy lately even though he has no flees or ticks; I also saw some scratch marks under his arm from him scratching himself, can the dryness of his skin be because of the chicken based nutro that I have been feeding him?

[k9cancer]

theres a lot of info on what to feed a puppy here on the forum. search calcium levels in the forum. You wi get a list of recommended foods based o calcium levels

The thread PugMom suggested is a GREAT one, and helped me figure out what to feed my Presa Canario pup (mastiff).
What you’ll find in the thread is that the protein content for large breeds is not nearly as important as the calcium and phosphorous levels. Hound Dog Mom put together a great list of 4 and 5 star grain free foods for large breed pups.

[Hound Dog Mom]

HI corrielainedd –

Wow, a Saint Berdoodle. I’d never heard of such a dog but I just googled it – pretty neat! Growing large and giant breed puppies need controlled levels of calcium as excess calcium has been linked to developmental orthopedic disease. When puppies are very young they are unable to regulate calcium absorption, they gain this ability around the age of 8 months. So I would say, given the fact that your pup is already 8 months old and through the most rapid phase of growth there’s really no reason to start watching calcium levels now. I would just suggest focusing on getting him on some high quality foods that fall within your budget. Look for a food approved for growth or all life stages – there’s no reason to go with a large breed puppy specific formula. Your adult dog can eat the same food – just be sure to adjust portions accordingly because growth and all life stages foods tend to be more calorie dense. Professional is a decent food for a good price, however it’s manufactured by Diamond who has frequent recalls. Some reasonably priced grain-free foods that you may want to check out: Victor, Earthborn, Hi-Tek Naturals Grain-Free, NutriSource, 4Health (sold at Tractor Supply), Pure Balance Grain-Free (sold at Walmart), Rachel Ray Zero Grain, Authority Grain-Free (sold at Petsmart). Some foods with grains that are budget friendly: Victor, Hi-Tek Naturals, Whole Earth Farms, Pure Balance, Fromm Classics, Healthwise, NutriSource and Natural Life. The only thing I would tell you to be aware of when looking for a cheaper grain-free food is that, unfortunately, many budget friendly grain-free foods are actually worse than grain-inclusive foods at a similar price point. Grain-free doesn’t necessarily mean better and many companies just replace the grains with white potatoes, tapioca or peas which doesn’t make a superior product. Try to maximize protein. I ‘d also recommend picking a few foods and rotating rather than sticking to only one.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Duke the Boxer –

Pursuit is not listed because according to Dr. Tim’s website the Pursuit formula is approved for adult maintenance – this is a list of foods appropriate for puppies (all life stages or growth). Dr. Tim has told me that he has used this formula on puppies, but it’s not labeled for puppies so it doesn’t meet the criteria for the list. Kinesis GF is too high in calcium. I agree – Dr. Tim is great and has wonderful customer service.