[only1aileen]

Have you tried adding 100% pumpkin? Not the fortified kind at the pet store, but regular 100% canned pumpkin found in the baking aisle at your grocery store? If you haven’t, and she likes the food that is making her run to the corner, try adding a spoonful of pumpkin to her meal (they LOVE pumpkin) and it should help regulate her. I got this advice from my vet, the people I trust at my local pet store, and from other more experienced dog owners. I had similar issues with my Lab when she was a puppy–and that was on Canidae All Life Stages in 2014. I then transitioned her to Canine Caviar’s puppy formula, which was great until I realized that I needed to have her on a large breed puppy food and I discovered Orijen. My go-to’s since then have been Orijen and Acana, she loves both. I will keep her on them as long as the quality continues to be consistent.

[InkedMarie]

This is an updated list of grain & white potato free foods. I included dry food only, no wet, raw, dehydrated or freeze dried. I included no part of white potato. Some foods on the prior list have been discontinued and a couple I can’t find ingredient lists for. I used the foods websites, not a pet food sellers website.

ACANA-Meadowland Regional
Wild Atlantic Regional
Appalachian Ranch Regional
Heritage
Heritage Freshwater Fish
Lamb & apple singles
Pork & squash singles
duck & pear singles
Wild Mackerel singles
Grasslands

AMICUS-small & mini breed adult
small & mini breed senior & weight management
small & mini breed puppy

ANNAMAET-Salcha Poulet

ARTEMIS-Osopure salmon
Osopure bison

AVODERM-senior health
joint health grain free chicken
Revolving Menu-all

BACKWOOD-buffalo & field pea
chicken & field pea
salmon & field pea

BROTHERS COMPLETE-all

BY NATURE-grainfree turkey & sweet potato
grain free ocean whitefish & green peas

CALIFORNIA NATURAL-all grain frees

CANIDAE-PURE Land
Pure Wild

CANINE CAVIAR-grainfree puppy
Leaping Spirit
Open Sky
Wild Ocean

CHICKEN SOUP-grainfree beef
grain free lamb

DAVES-both grain frees

DOG FOR DOG (formerly Freehand) both grainfree’s

DOGSWELL-Live Free salmon
Live Free chicken
Live Free turkey
Live Free lamb

EARTHBORN-Great Plains Feast
Meadow Feast
Large Breed
weight control

EVANGERS-grainfree whitefish & sweet potato
grain free chicken
grain free Meat Lovers Medley

EVO-all

FROMM-4 Star lamb & lentil
4 star pork & peas

GO! Sensitivity & Shine LID Duck
Sensitivity & Sine LID salmon
Sensitivity & Shine LID venison
Sensitivity & Shine grain free turkey

GRANDMA MAE’S COUNTRY NATURALS-grainfree only

GREAT LIFE-Dr E’s LID buffalo
Dr E’s LID duck
buffalo
salmon
chicken

HALO-Vigor turkey, chicken & salmon

HEALTH EXTENSION-grainfree buffalo & whitefish
grain free venison & chickpea
grain free duck & chickpea
grainfre salmon, herring & peas

HI TEK NATURALS-lamb, sweet potato & herring
chicken & sweet potato
Alaskan fish

HOLISTIC BLEND-Marine 5

HOLISTIC SELECT-grainfree adult health

HORIZON-Pulsar: fish
chicken
turkey
Legacy: salmon
adult
puppy

I AND LOVE AND YOU-salmon & trout
Nude: Simply Sea
Poultry Palooza
Red meat medley
Naked Essentials-lamb & bison
chicken & duck

KASIKS-Wild Pacific Ocean
Free Range lamb
Free Run Chicken

LOTUS-oven baked grain free turkey

MERRICK-grainfree rabbit & chickpea
grain free venison & chickpea

MUENSTER-grainfree all life stages

NATURAL BALANCE-Wild Pursuit: Trout/Salmon/Tuna
chicken/turkey/quail
lamb/chicken/guinea fowl
LID: legume & duck
legume & Wagyu Beef

NATURAL PLANET-rabbit & salmon
duck & whitefish

NATURAL PLANET ORGANICS-all grain frees

NATURES RECIPE-grainfree chicken, sweet potato & pumpkin

NATURES VARIETY-Instinct: all

NRG-Optimum line

NULO-all

NUTRISCA-all grainfree

NUTRISOURCE-grainfree chicken & pea
grain free seafood select
grain free lamb & pea
grain free small breed chicken
grain free Prairie Select

ORIJEN-all

PET BOTANICS-Healthy Omega chicken
Healthy Omega salmon
Healthy Omega lamb

PET KIND-all

PINNACLE-grainfree trout & sweet potato
grain free duck & sweet potato
grain free chicken & sweet potato

PIONEER NATURALS-all grain free

PRECISE-both grain frees

SOLID GOLD-Mighty Mini
Lil Boss
high protein with duck

SPORT DOG FOOD-Elite Beef
Elite whitefish
Elite chicken
Elite venison

TASTE OF THE WILD-Appalachian Valley
Pine Forest
Southwest Canyon

TUSCAN NATURALS-Ocean

UNDER THE SUN-All grain frees

VICTOR-grainfree active dog & puppy
Yukon River
lamb
chicken
Ultra Pro
Hero

WELLNESS-Core Wild Game
adult chicken
Tru Food: adult salmon & turkey
adult lamb
adult chicken
puppy

WILD CALLING-Rocky Mountain Medley-all
Western Plains Stampede all
Xotic Essentials-all

WYSONG-Epigen 90

ZIGNATURE-LID trout & salmon
LID kangaroo
LID turkey
LID lamb
LID duck
LID whitefish
Essential multi protein

ZOIC-all

4 HEALTH-puppy
small breed adult

[Marissa B]

My puppy Harvey is one year old, and ever since May he has had pretty bad allergies. From when he was a puppy we had him on blue buffalo chicken and rice large breed puppy and then he got bad itchy welts with diarrhea. Then we switched him to Zignature salmon (limited ingredient diet). That seemed to work for about a month or so, the welts came back, his hair started coming out and diarrhea also followed along with vomiting. We took him to the vet, chest and stomach xray came back normal, blood levels came back normal in his cbc and LFTs. They gave us a medicated shampoo, started him on Hill prescription zd and started him on steroids. Needless to say reading the ingredients on this hills I’m not overly impressed, seems like there is a lot of fillers and its 90$ a bag!!! I don’t mind paying if it works, but now it seems like his welts are back, he won’t eat the food unless we put sweat potatoes on top and his shampoo isn’t helping. I’m lost at what to do, every time he comes off steroids he gets the welts back. I don’t have enough money to keep taking him to the vet every few weeks for tests and drugs and food etc. I’m considering a raw diet possibly because every time we put him on the bland diet he is completely fine with no itching and welts and long term steroid use at his age scares me. Any advice is greatly appreciated! 🙂

[pitlove]

Hi Lauren-

You will want to email Protein for Pets and request a nutrient analysis of the formula in question. Then you will want to use the numbers given for the calcium and phosphorus into this tool: /best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/

If the ca/phos ratio falls between 1.1:1 and 1.5:1 and the ca/calorie ratio does not exceed 3g/1000kcals, the food is safe to feed your giant breed.

However, the only formulas I see on the link you gave are adult maintenance formulas, which is not recommended for large/giant breed puppies.

[pitlove]

Hi Chris-

The main reason vet’s recommend Purina is because they believe in the food. It is formulated by nutritionists, veterinarians, and other specialists. Many vet’s feel this is important when choosing a food. They are also one of the leading researchers (aside from Hill’s) in large and giant breed puppy growth and nutrition. I personally feed Pro Plan and after trying many of the “better”(including Orijen and Acana) dog foods, find that Pro Plan works the best for my allergy dog and my food intolerant cat.

Of course the vet’s who sell Purina make money off of it, just like the independant pet store that sells Orijen makes money off that too. I’m unaware of vet’s actually getting kickbacks for selling food and I have worked at a vet’s office. They get discounts on food, but so do I working at an independant pet store and so do the workers at Petco and PetSmart. I personally don’t see the difference, but that’s just me.

Most people do not like Blue Buffalo because of the lack of integrity on the companies part and their dishonesty during the recent law suit. Also they are quite overpriced for what you are actually getting.

[Susan W]

Hi Chris,
I climbed on the VeRUs pet food bandwagon when they had a person contact me and they sent me actual samples of their food (instead of coupons). I have had FANTASTIC results from feeding my dogs their foods.
Neither of my dogs is a puppy anymore. However, VeRUS HAS a large breed puppy formula in addition to their regular puppy formula. You can contact them via their website. They have a lot of info there and they will answer your questions, as well. Their website is veruspetfoods.com
They’ve never had a recall, either. It’s a great company with great products.

[pitlove]

Hi Chris-

I can see why Bully Max has it’s appeal, as it is marketed as a food specificially for “Bully Breeds”. Problem with that food is the same problem as all other breed specific foods. Not enough is known about each individual breeds dietary needs currently for there to be a basis for breed specific nutrition. Right now the best thing to focus on (especially with how some of these bullies are bred) is proper growth.

Many vet’s feel that a dog should be fed a food specific to it’s life stage and not an all life stages food. Personally, I don’t know that there is enough or any research out there to indicate that an all life stages diet is inappropriate or worse than a growth diet. However it is important that the formula be safe for a large breed puppy. Any time you are questioning if the diet is safe, you need to email the company and request a nutrient anaylsis of the formula in question. You then need to take the numbers they give you for the calcium and phosphorus and the kcals/kg and input them into this tool

/best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/

If the diet exceeds a 1.5:1 ca/phos ratio and a 3g/1000kcals ratio, it is too high and inappropriate for your bully.

[Chris S]

Hey, new here and new to larger breed dogs. I just got an American Bully, she is 8 weeks. Will probably be about 60lbs full size, maybe a little more. I really want to stay with a 5-star brand. I know a lot of people ask what the best for my (dog breed here) and there isnt a clear cut answer as all dogs are different, but would like maybe 3 recommendations to try out before just picking and buying at these price tags.

I’ve seen a few good things about Bully Max High Performance, but mostly from their website and (what I assume) affiliated sites. It also is pretty new and is an “all-stage” type of food. Maybe its just my misconception but I would think a true “puppy” blend and even better “large puppy” blend would be best depending on the brand.

I have also seen great things about Orijen which they have a “large puppy” blend and am leaning towards it as of now, partially for that reason.

Any other suggestions and also am I truly just wrong, about the “all-stages” vs “puppy” blends.

[Alicia S]

I have a Great Dane, my second one, and they eat more and more food until they reach a certain age and weight then yes they start to eat less and less because they are not growing any more. I fed her Orijen Puppy Large breed and use the chart on the back of the bag to help determine how much to feed her based on her current weight, current age, and what she should weigh in the future.

[pitlove]

Hi Lacey-

I kind of hate to complicate things given the title of your post, but your 13 week old giant breed has very specific dietary needs while he is growing that differ greatly from your 16 year old Chihuahua.

Large and giant dogs that will mature to over 50lbs are at high risk for bone growth disorders due not only to genetics, but improper nutrition during growth. Large breed puppies have difficulty absorbing calcium correctly. They require a food that has a controlled level of calcium to help them grow slowly. Most of the time a food labeled for “large breed puppies” will meet those requirements…sometimes they do not. Diamond Naturals does have a large breed puppy formula that is All Life Stages, so your Chihuahua could eat it, however some small dogs are sensitive to kibble size so you would have to get a bag and test it out.

Homecooking is not a bad idea, however the diets have to be properly balanced and when adding the challenge of owning a giant breed puppy, many will advise that a commercial diet that meets AAFCO should be fed during growth to make sure the dog is recieving proper nutrition. When your giant breed pup reaches adulthood you could begin researching homecooked meals. BalanceIt.com is a good place to start.

[Sandra W]

Hi all – I wanted to chime in on the fats/protein issue. My dog has a very sensitive stomach and gets sick on food that is too fatty. Sick as in up-chucking. I have to be really careful with all dog foods, even dry foods. My doggy baby is a GSD and is about 18 m-o. I read a lot of this thread from the more recent posts (this year & last) and did a lot of research. I contact several pet food companies and asked for samples and usually just got auto-email coupons for a few dollars off. I’m going to get on the Verus bandwagon with Susan. Their VP responded to my contact! Yes, they’re a small company but I like that they care enough about dogs to ask questions and communicate. I’m feeding the Verus large breed puppy food & will for a few more months. Around the end of the year I will start switching over to an adult Verus formula. I know if I have questions or issues, I can contact the people at Verus and get answers. That’s important to me.

[pitlove]

Hi Carol-

If you are one of our customers, I’d be happy to have you come in, introduce yourself and talk about which food would work the best for your large breed puppy. We carry a good variety of quality foods.

[Josh H]

I got a puppy about a little over a week ago, but I haven’t had a dog in 10+ years. I use to feed my old dog Blue Buffalo and so that’s what I got my new puppy (Blue Buffalo Large Breed Puppy). About 4 days later he stopped eating all of his food and he would literally turn his nose up at it. He wasn’t throwing up, nor did he have diarrhea (I suspected he just didn’t like his food). So I joined this site and started doing a ton of research. I got a 5lbs bag of Wellness Core Puppy (which he absolutely loves) and the only way he will eat the Blue Buffalo food is if I mix it in with the Wellness. In terms of Blue Buffalo, I was shocked that they admitted to lying about ingredients, have been outsourcing certain ingredients and has been having recalls. I want the best for my puppy, but is Blue Buffalo a brand I can trust or has it just gone downhill? I think eventually I want him on just Wellness which seems pretty good, or is there something else I should be giving him?

[InkedMarie]

Vets get very little nutritional education. You need to be careful what you feed a large breed puppy; go to the Diet & Health issues forum here and read the stickie on top, highlighted in yellow, on what is appropriate foods for large breed puppies. I’m not sure if it’s “too late” or not.

I would not feed anything by Blue Buffalo; they’ve had their share of problems.

You can try a spoonful of canned pumpkin (the one without the spices) while you transition. Also, over feeding can be a cause.

[Debbie S]

so in searching I see a brand Nulo that people mention. I like the ingredient list on the salmon and pea puppy but it does not say that it is specific to large breeds?? any one know anything about them. also don’t have the full analysis on website. I need to call them unless someone here knows about them. I am just not real comfortable with the company that makes TOTW, Pitluv. Who knew finding a decent food for my 10 month pup would be so complicated lol.

[pitlove]

No problem haha LBP stands for large breed puppy

Personally what I would do if you are ever questioning why a company chooses to use certain ingredients, is either call or email and ask them about it specficially. If you aren’t happy with the answer they give you or you feel like they are making excuses move on to another food.

[Eric C]

I have been feeding my 12 week yellow lab Dick VanPats Natural Balance. She is clearly gaining a bit too much weight, but this is likely due to my portions being too high. However, after doing research here I do want to change food. I am torn between the following:

Fromm – Heartland Gold Large Breed Grain Free Puppy
Fromm – Gold Hollistic Large Breed Puppy
Wellness Core Grain Free Puppy
Wellness Large Breed Complete Health Puppy

The chart I saw posted early in this thread seems to only one of these Wellness listed, but not sure which one it refer to. Also, the Fromm listed in the calcium chart has the Fromm Four Star Nutritionals, but not the puppy specific formulas. Has the chart been updated? Is there a better choice for my lab for her hips? Does this mean only the Fromm and Wellness listed in the chart has the recommended balance of calcium ideal for my late breed?

Thanks in advance

[pitlove]

Hi Debbie-

This is the tool that we all use to calculate ca/phos ratios and ca/calorie ratios

/best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/

When I use the numbers you gave me for Nutro Natural Choice LID Lamb and Rice this is what the calculator tells me

Calculate
Calcium = 4.0 g per 1000 kcal
Ca to P ratio = 1.2 to 1

Safe, but…approaching the safe upper limit of 4.5g/1000 kcals for the ca/calorie ratio

You do not have to feed her for a working dog since she is not and that would cause her to lose too much weight, but you always want to make sure she does not get overweight.

[Maria K]

I would transition from Wellness Large Breed Puppy.
I like:
– Wellness TruFood Puppy
– Zignature Zssential
– Wellness Core Puppy Formula
– Nulo Freestyle Puppy Salmon and Peas
– Nulo Medal Series Puppy Chicken and Sweet Potato
– Weruva
– Wellness Core Reduced Fat
It’s tricky with the Wellness brand because not all of their formulas are created equal as far as quality.
I have had great success with Annamaet’s Grain Free Lean Low Fat Formula.
I would definitely avoid Hill’s Science Diet Adult Perfect Weight.

[pitlove]

Hi again Jennifer-

As far as I know, there are no actual studies or research on a nutrient profile specificially for large and giant breed adult dogs. Each company kind of just decides what a large and giant breed adult formula should look like. Most of the time what that formulation looks is lower protein, lower fat and lower calories to try to keep weight off them. For the most part I can agree with that formulation, though personally because I have unaltered dogs I find I can feed them higher calorie, higher fat foods (but just feed them for a less active dog) and they don’t gain weight.

Dr. Rebecca Remillard ACVN recommends switching a large/giant breed puppy to a weight management or “light” formula once they hit maturity to keep weight off them, but I personally don’t feel a weight loss formula is needed to keep them lean, though I’m sure some may benefit from it for various reasons.

[Susan W]

Andrea,
While you’re researching puppy foods, please check out VeRUS. I have been feeding my dogs this food (adult formulas) for about 6 months and it has made a HUGE difference in them! They have a large breed puppy formula, they have canned foods, they supplements. If you fill out their contact form, someone will get in touch with you and ask/answer questions before sending samples. The samples are great. At least you’ll have something to try that won’t cost you anything.

[pitlove]

Hi Andrea-

Welcome and congrats! I love Cane Corso’s! That is the next breed I plan on owning 🙂

I can certainly understand how crazy you must feel right now worrying about the best food to feed him. There are so many choices now for large/giant breed puppy foods, how can you possibly pick a best one?

Obviously calcium levels are of upmost importance, but so are other things like digestability, palatability, bioavailablity just to name a few. Also because growth for large and giant breeds is such an important and critical time in their life, I do prefer (but am not commited to) brands that have nutritionists staffed or consult with nutritionists to forumlate the food. Since I’m relying on this food to provide everything for my puppy in the proper amounts, I place value on that. Most of the companies that do that are larger companies that have more resources because of more money. I do understand however, that many people do not feel comfortable using brands of food from larger companies like Purina and Hill’s. A food I would highly consider looking into if you do not want to use a product from Purina or Hill’s is Dr. Tim’s Kinesis (not the grain free). It is formulated by a vet and a veterinary nutritionist and has gone through feeding trials. Another brand I also really like is NutriSource because of it’s high digestability and palatability.

Another huge thing that people overlook with growing large breed puppies is by all means keep them lean! It keeps stress off the joints and growing bones and can also greatly help reduce the risk for bone disorders during growth and later in life. You can use the Purina Body Condition Score to access his weight and make sure he is staying at a 4/9.

Best of luck! Post some pictures if you can when you get him!

[goldenstar]

Hi pitluv…
Did you ever find out if Holistic Select Large Breed Puppy food’s calcium and cal phos levels where too high? Thanks

[pitlove]

Hi Kenneth-

Welcome to the forums. Hound Dog Mom hasn’t been able to post on here in quite some time due to school, so I don’t know that you’ll ever hear back from her. I can however, try to help.

Here is 2 articles from DFA that may help you understand large breed puppies and choosing a dog food a little better:

/best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/

/choosing-dog-food/brand-guidelines/

It is interesting that when you read through the second link the rating that Pro Plan recieves does not reflect those criteria that Mike has outlined. In fact Pro Plan makes a excellent choice when using those 9 tips. Another thing to be mentioned is that Purina is one of 2 companies that are the leaders in research for large breed puppy nutrition and growth. While some may choose other brands or diets other than kibble, many show dogs are fed Pro Plan as well. Personally, I see no reason to switch simply because this website rates it 2.5 stars, especially since you’ve noted your dog is doing quite well on it.

However, if you are insistant, I would highly recommend looking at Dr. Tim’s Kinesis (not the grain free one). It is formulated by both a vet and a nutritionist and has gone through AAFCO feeding trials and if star rating is of that much concern, it is rated 4 stars.

[Kenneth A]

Hound Dog Mom: Thank you for all of the advice regarding food choices for large breeds. I purchased my English Style Lab from a Vet, Breeder and competitor of show quality dogs. My wife and I just wanted a family companion, couch potato to replace our Lab we lost at 9.5 years to cancer. The breeder fed all of her dogs Pro Plan and we have kept Earl on Pro Plan Large Breed Puppy. He is currently 6 months old and shows no negative symptoms. However, I am not happy to learn this site (which I joined because I want to be informed) rates Pro Plan at 2.5 stars.

A small Pet Store Chain just opened a branch store a couple of miles away from where we live. The sell many of the foods that are rated 4+ Stars on this site so I will be changing Earl’s Food Soon.

Since Earl is not experiencing any problems with his current food what should I look for in determining the best food to switch him to? I know I will need to blend the new food with the old for a few days. He currently does not scratch, has no ear infections and has relatively small stools. So, I want to change to a higher rated food but I don’t want to create any issues for Earl.

Please express advice and opinions. I am leaning toward Fromm Dry Foods!

Thanks,

Ken

[pitlove]

Hi April-

Fromm is a good food and good company. I would choose Fromm over Taste of the Wild and Holistic Select personally, simply because of the company itself. The Heartland Gold Large Breed Puppy has a 1.1:1 calcium/phosphorus ratio and a 3g/1000kcal ratio according to the numbers I used from their website from their technical analysis, so in short, yes that food would be good to use.

[crazy4cats]

Hi April-

Have you found the information on the Fromm large breed puppy food you were looking for yet? I’m “bumping” up your post to see if someone can chime in on that food in addition to the ones that Susan recommended.

[Karigan P]

Hello all, I have a 12 week old Great Dane puppy who has been through it all in his short time (parvo & severe demodex) He is well now and we are focusing on nutrition for him. It has been about a month post parvo. My issue is he is now knuckling over or, bowing at the leg on his front.
It is so bad he can’t walk very well. It seemed to start healing and then I took him out for a long walk and it worsened. Should I just keep him on bed rest? I thought exercise would help.

Here is the food he has been on so far: Orijen Puppy (1 1/2 weeks) then switched to Zignature Zssential formula (2 days – this is when he started losing his hair), Then Orijen Large Breed Puppy (only 1/2 a week). When I noticed his knuckling over I did some research and he is now on the Precise Holistic large and giant breed puppy.

I have unfortunately switched foods TOO many times b/c I thought the demodex was a food allergy and I’m scared to switch again but he is having runny diarrhea on this food – he has been on it for 4 days now. I can possibly wait it out but I have read that this is a common issue on this brand and I don’t want him to lose any more weight than he has already.

Any suggestions?

[Susan]

Hi my boy suffers with Food Sensitivities & Environment allergies.. your best of doing an elimination food diet to make sure she is sensitive to chicken?? My boy is sensitive to chicken he gets red paws, itchy ears, itchy skin & sloppy poos, as soon as I feed cooked or raw chicken his paws went red & hot within 20mins, also when he eats a kibble with
barley, corn, maize, gluten meal….
“Taste Of The Wild” puppy formulas both are chicken free & no chicken fat….one is Pacific Stream puppy with Smoked Salmon the other one is High Prairie Puppy with Roasted Bison & Roasted Venison….your better off feeding the Salmon kibble. Fish is a cooling meat where beef isn’t my boy itches when I made him Beef rissoles now I feed pork rissole with sweet potato for dinner & the Taste Of The Wild Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb kibble for breakfast, the TOTW Sierra Mountain is an all life stages kibble & can be feed to a puppy & is chicken free. send TOTW an email ask for some puppy samples & All Life Stages kibbles for a large breed puppy & their booklet so you can read ingredients & which kibbles are All Life Stages kibbles…their samples are pretty big..

also BATHS are the best when your dog has environment allergies, I bath weekly sometimes twice a week depends if Patch is itchy & scratching after a walk…Baths wash off any pollen & allergen that are on their fur & skin & relieve any itch when you wash in the right shampoo I bath Patch in Malaseb medicated shampoo. I also wipe him down with Huggie baby Cucumber & Aloe wipes after going on our daily walks… http://www.tasteofthewildpetfood.com/
Another chicken free kibble is “Holistic Select” Salmon & Anchovy & Sardine Meal Adult & Puppy Health is suppose to be really good for itchy dogs…
http://www.holisticselect.com/
If after changing kibble to an all fish kibble & your dog is still itchy red eyes then book an appointment to see an Dermatologist they are better then a vet, dearer but a Dermatologist knows all about allergies & the skin you’ll end up saving money vets just put the dog on a vet diet & give antibiotics & steroids….Have you tried an antihistamine?? especially her eyes are you sure its not a turned in eye lash?? that can cause irritation & infection, I’d see a new vet for her eye…
besides the red eyes is she itchy all over her body & scratching, red paws or itchy ears?? she may just need the eye drops & be put on a premium kibble..

[pitlove]

Hi Tonya

Welcome to the forums!

Tripett is a canned variety of green beef tripe that is a great topper for kibble because it has a perfect 1:1 ca/phos ratio.

Basically as I’m sure you have learned, excessive calcium and excess weight gain are the two major causes of bone growth disorders in growing large breeds. Some of these diseases don’t manifest until later in life, some manifest early on and then clear up. Either way it is important to feed a food appropriate for a growing large breed. The calcium to phos ratio should not exceed 1:5:1 and the calcium to calorie ratio should not exceed 3g/1000kcals.

Here is the issue….some foods make the claim “All Life Stages” which does mean it can be fed to a puppy or an adult. However, that does not always mean a LBP. Natural Balance makes the claim “All Stages, All Breeds” however that may or may not be true depending on what their nutritional philosophy regarding LBP’s is. Some companies are running on the old tired myth that protein is the main cause of bone growth disorders, dispite this theory being debunked some 20 years ago. They put so much emphasis on low protein that they ignore the calcium content.

Some companies list their “nutrient analysis” right there on their website, which I love! Some do not and you have to email the company and ask for it. Reason this is important is because there is a great tool on DFA here in that thread we orginally were talking on that lets you put in the MAX calcium, MAX phos and the calories/kg of the food and it tells you the calcium/phos ratio and the calcium/calorie ratio. However, you can not use the MIN numbers found on the bag. It does not tell you the true amount of calcium contained in the food. When using the MIN numbers, just about every food on the market would look LBP safe lol.

When it comes to feeding guidelines on the bag, they are simply a guideline. NB is a lower calorie food, so in order to meet the dogs daily caloric requirements, more food needs to be fed. Higher calorie foods would require less. One issue with feeding SO much less than the guidelines is the dog becoming nutrient deficient over time.

A lot of factors come in to play in keeping a dog lean. Being spayed/neutered will decrease metabolism, being less active, consuming too many calories in ratio to what is being burned. Personally, I would reward with something like green beans instead of the Zuke’s treats you are using if you are doing a lot of training with her and she is getting a lot of treats. We don’t use a lot of treats in my house because I’m very careful with my dogs weight. I have 3 kinds of treats right now, each with different kcals/treat and I use them based on how much excersize I feel they have done that day. Many days they don’t get a treat at all because I’m also incorporating raw into their kibble, so that takes up the calories of the treats. Praise is also a good training reward vs a treat.

[april a]

I have a 6 month old mix breed pup with the rescue identifying only Pyranees but she is/will be smaller I believe – she is 33 lbs at 6 months old. But the vet suggested that it would be a good thing to have her on large breed puppy food.

Another issue is that her eyes/innerlids are red, with one eye being much redder than the other with a little greenish discharge. The vet did not look closely and even though I expressed concern about infection she suggested that allergies were most likely, and possibly to choose food with no chicken. Then if after a diet change it didn’t improve, to use a steroid based eye drop. ( And I am still worried about an infection instead)

But in trying to follow the vets advice, I am having a difficult time finding a large breed puppy food without chicken. I have found ONE but I can’t find any mention of it here on DFA although as a newb I might not be looking in the right place. The food I found is Fromm Family Grain-Free Heartlnad Gold Large Breed Puppy with RED MEAT. It has Beef, Pork Meat Meal, Peas, Lentils, Chickpeas, Potatoes …. Crude Protein 26 Crude Fat 14 Crude fiber 6 and Moisture 10. Can’t find mention of Calcium…

Looking for advice, and if the above food is a good choice. Thanks very much.

[Jennifer H]

Ok so I have two questions to pose for my fellow Large/Giant Breed folks:

1 – In the article “How to Choose the Best Large Breed Puppy Food and Lower Your Dog’s Risk of Hip Dysplasia” it states:

“Yet fortunately, there’s general agreement among the experts that any food intended for large breed puppies should not only meet AAFCO nutrient profiles for growth, it should also contain:
◾3500 to 4000 calories (kcal) per kilogram of food14
◾3 grams of calcium per 1000 calories of food. That value should not exceed the safe upper limit of 4.5 grams15
◾A calcium-to-phosphorus ratio between 1:1 and 1.5:116
Although most AAFCO compliant puppy foods are suitable for small and medium breeds, only a few meet these special guidelines and can be considered safe for large breed puppies. ”
I am in complete agreement on the grams of calcium and the calcium to phosphorus ratio, but can’t help but wonder about the recommendation to have what I would consider high calories per kilogram of food? Please share your thought and opinions on this as it has me scratching my head:)

Ok, for question 2 — this is a great sharing of information regarding the nutritional needs for Large/Giant breed puppies but I am wondering once your BIG PUPPY reaches adult status and is now a BIG DOG, what is the general opinion/consensus of nutrition needs for the adult or even the senior large/giant breed?

[pitlove]

Hi Danielle-

The ratings on this website do not reflect disgestibility or bioavaialability of nutrients. These things are far more important to consider than a star rating. Also keeping in mind you will need a large breed puppy food. I would take a look at Dr. Tim’s Kinesis (not grain free) and NutriSource Large Breed Puppy.

[Susan W]

VeRUS has a puppy formula for large breed dogs (who will grow to be more than 60 lbs) and a smaller (average?) puppy formula. I’m very happy with their adult foods. Maybe you should try them. If you go to their website (http://www.veruspetfoods.com) you can fill out a form and they’ll send you samples. The samples arrive quickly and have a lot in them.

[Susan W]

VeRUS has a puppy formula for large breed dogs (who will grow to be more than 60 lbs) and a smaller (average?) puppy formula. I’m very happy with their adult foods. Maybe you should try them. If you go to their website (http://www.veruspetfoods.com) you can fill out a form and they’ll send you samples. The samples arrive quickly and have a lot in them.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Patricia,

I second C4C’s recommendation for a fecal test. I also second her recommendation for NutriSource, which is generally well tolerated by sensitive stomachs.

I looked at the NutriSource Large Breed Puppy (grain-inclusive formula) and it has 4% fiber. I also looked at the three foods you specifically mentioned and with the exception of the Royal Canin (of which, I’m not a fan), the others are pretty high in fiber. How is he doing on the Eukanuba? Any loose stool while eating that? Right now, whatever he’ll eat and does well on is what he should be eating. Prolonged loose stool can actually do more damage. His digestive tract is healing when he’s not having the loose stool, even if that means temporarily using the I/D – at least the Calcium is OK for a LBP in the I/D.

I’ve been through this with my Golden when he was a pup and finally have a good handle on things. What I would do is sit down and look at all of the foods you’ve fed him. See if there’s anything in common in those foods that he doesn’t do well on and those he does. Compare ingredients and nutrient profiles. Sometimes it’s a fiber issue, sometimes it’s an ingredient issue, sometimes it’s a protein issue.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Patricia T-

Did the vet do a fecal test? Giardia, worms and Coccidia are common for young pups. NutriSource has a large breed puppy dog food that you may want to give a shot. And as Anon mentioned, make sure not to overfeed!

Here is a link that I find helpful: http://www.dogaware.com/health/digestive.html

Good luck!

• This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by crazy4cats.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by crazy4cats.

[Patricia T]

I really need some advice on dog food with this guy! My neutered Labrador puppy is eight months old and was sent home by the breeder at eight weeks old with Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy Dry Dog Food. He was a slow eater and we decided to switch to a higher-rated food. Since then, we have tried these:

Royal Canin Labrador Retriever Puppy Dry Dog Food
Wellness CORE Grain-Free Puppy Formula Dry Dog Food
Fromm Heartland Gold Grain-Free Large Breed Puppy

He loved all of them (ate fast and finished bowl) but they all produced an abundance of runny stool, and he was going at least four times a day while fed twice. We’ve gone back to the Eukanuba, but it’s obvious that he hates it – he only nibbles at the bowl.

The Hill’s® Prescription Diet® i/d® Canine Dry from the vet is great, and they offered to let us keep him on it, but it isn’t a puppy food. Does anyone have any suggestions for another puppy food that maybe isn’t as rich as the ones we tried before?

Thank you for any suggestions!

[pitlove]

Hi Rikki and welcome-

I can appreciate your desire for science based medicine. To touch on a the points you hit on, no protein is not a factor in terms of correct growth for large and giant breeds. However, Dr. Rebecca Remillard ACVN states on her website petdiets.com, that growing puppies do not require a food with more than 25% protein.

Absolutely, by no means, should you feed your mastiff an adult maintenance diet. This is a tired old myth still thought to be true because it “worked” 30 years ago. Companies are now producing large breed puppy diets designed specificially for slow growth.

The safe upper limit for your calcium and phos ratio is 1.5:1. However, you also need to pay attention to the calcium to calorie ratio as well to keep the pup lean during growth. Overfeeding is a huge factor in devlopmental orthopedic disorders.

As for the choice of food….the two companies that have done the most research on large and giant breed puppy growth and nutrition are Hill’s and Purina. Selecting a large breed puppy diet from either of those companies would be fine. I do understand that some are opposed to using a food from either of those two companies. Dr. Tim’s Kinesis which you mentioned earlier, is safe for a growing giant breed, is formulated by a vet and a nutritionist and has been feed trialed. All qualities that are excellent to have in a food. Not to mention it comes in a 44lb bag on chewy.com. This would probably be my first choice for a budget friendly, good large breed puppy food, not from Hill’s or Purina.

Here is a good article to read that is posted on DFA here:

/best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/

and this is another from the persepctive of a veterinary nutritionist, that outlines DOD’s and large breed puppy nutrition fairly well:

https://msu.edu/~silvar/hips.htm

[Jennifer H]

Thanks. Keeping any dog/puppy at a healthy weight is important but for large/giant breed puppies I can’t stress enough how dramatically proper weight can impact their entire life. As for my puppies, yep I do feed my puppies an all natural RAW diet. I have tested and formulated my mix to ensure it is not only balanced but also to ensure it has the right Calcium and Phosphorus levels for a giant breed puppy. I will admit, the first time I gave a litter of puppies a raw chicken back at about 5 weeks of age I was scared to death. I was simply amazed at how well they took to it. I am now tracking the health and development of the puppies I have kept and continue to feed raw as well as the health and development of the puppies that have gone to new homes and are eating different foods. It is a lot of work, but it is worth it to me. I looked at the commercial RAW diets and kibbles available and just didn’t find any that I felt truly addressed the needs of the large and giant breed dogs, so….. I just took the plunge

[CircaRigel]

It’s been a while, and I thought I’d provide an update on Galen, now 19 months old, technically an adolescent for a giant breed (Shiloh Shepherd), but no longer a puppy. However, I did go through a number of adjustments to his diet as he grew up, and thought I’d discuss them. I’ll first discuss kibbles, since that is generally the area where improper calcium and phosphorus content causes problems. Brands discussed include Eukanuba, Holistic Select (and other WellPet brands), Canidae, Taste of the Wild, Fromms, Tripett, and my absolute favorite and the most impressive, nutritionally… Darwin’s Natural Selections. I will also briefly touch on treats. Every choice I’ve made for Galen has come about via extensive research, wanting only the very best for Galen’s growth and health, for he is training as my service dog. My first responsibility is to him, even before looking after myself, for it is his responsibility to always be looking after me. Besides… I consider him family on equal par to my most beloved family members. I have linked the Dog Food Advisor pages for Galen’s finalized diet at the bottom of this post.

Galen’s breeder weaned her litter on Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy diet. After his adoption, I transitioned him to Fromm’s, which is what his breeder now weans her puppies on, but his stools were often quite soft. There was a brief period when I tried Holistic Select Large breed puppy, but rapidly transitioned away from it when Galen became ill. As it happens, ALL kibble foods made by WellPet (Wellness, Holistic Select, Old Mother Hubbard, Eagle Pack) contain green tea extract. While the very small amounts are probably not harmful to most dogs, particularly since it’s being taken with food, I found a number of studies that were halted because of dogs dying after being given green tea extract on an empty stomach. There is no way I can know for certain, but I suspect Galen is somehow particularly susceptible to toxic effects from it, even in small doses. So I began researching foods, and I liked the nutrition profile for some of the Canidae varieties, and while they were not specifically puppy or large breed diets, I contacted Canidae to make sure I chose a variety with the proper calcium and phosphorus ratios for proper bone growth (Canidae has recently been shifting their manufacturing away from Diamond pet foods, with a new processing plant in California). He did well on this, but didn’t like it much. Since he’s rather thin (but not so much as to be unhealthy, according to his vets at Alameda East, the same hospital where Animal Planet’s “Emergency Vets” was filmed, as it’s closest to where I live), I decided to change things up again when he was about a year old. Since he now was at an age where his calcium metabolism was properly established (generally puppies older than 8 months old can properly metabolize calcium, without the need to limit it so much), it broadened the choices of available foods for him. So, I made a list of grain free foods on Dog Food Advisor with 4+ ratings, focusing especially on 5 star rated foods, and ordered a bunch of sample packs for him to try from K9Cuisine. Of all of the foods he tried, he preferred the 5 star rated varieties of Taste of the Wild best. While I’m not fond of the record of Diamond pet foods, I trust the ratings of Dog Food Advisor (except the high ratings of kibbles by WellPet brands, for the previously mentioned Green Tea toxicity risk). Anyway, to keep things interesting for his palate, I now transition between the three 5 star rated varieties of TOTW for dry food.

Canned foods: From very early on, I had Galen eating Tripett green beef tripe as his wet food. I chose this because green tripe contains the nutrients of what the cow ate as well as the nutritional value and digestive enzymes that are naturally inherent to tripe. I have tried other varieties of canned foods, but Galen usually turns his nose up at them after a few days, when the novelty wears off. There has been a single exception, though, which I also supplement his diet with. That is Darwin’s Natural Selections raw foods. Back when I was letting Galen choose from among the samples I got for him, I also got the $15 introductory sample of the Darwin’s food (10 lbs variety pack), which included free shipping on dry ice. Their foods are raw, made from free-range, organic animal sources and organic vegetables. They come in easy to open plastic packets. Dog Food Advisor not only rates it 5 stars, but enthusiastically recommends the foods. They have never had a recall. I was quite surprised to find that the food was packaged and frozen just a few days before it shipped to me. Now, Once you have had the trial and go to their subscription plan, the cost is far higher, plus shipping on dry ice. It’s too high for me to feed to Galen exclusively or even as half his diet, so I subscribe to it as a supplement to his regular diet, feeding him 2 lbs a week. I get him all varieties, which include chicken, turkey, duck, beef, and bison. Of all of the foods I’ve ever fed a dog, This has been by far of the highest quality I’ve encountered.

Galen is incredibly picky even with treats, generally preferring single-ingredient, meat based treats. These have included Simply Lamb (freeze dried lamb), PureBites freeze dried chicken breast, PureBites freeze dried duck liver, and Primal freeze dried Nuggets (lamb), although the nuggets I use more as an occasional supplement rather than a treat. Galen turns his nose up at most other treats, even jerky treats. That’s fine by me. I rather like seeing only one ingredient listed, which leaves me zero doubts of there being anything in it that is unnecessary to his health (i.e. preservatives).

On a final note, around holidays I like to make a turkey stock from the leftovers and carcass (bones removed, of course, after cooking so that nutrients specific to the bones leach into the stock, like the marrow). That turkey stock is for Galen, as a special treat supplementing his food.

So… Galen’s final adult diet:
Taste of the Wild (wetlands, High Prairie, and Canyon varieties)
Tripett Green Beef Tripe
Darwin’s Natural Selections raw (beef, bison, chicken, turkey, and duck)

• This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by CircaRigel.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by CircaRigel.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by CircaRigel.

[gmcbogger38]

*If this was already answered in this thread please let me know.

I have a question regarding grains. I have read articles written by some veterinarians who say if you feed kibble only feed grain free. I have also read articles written by other veterinarians who say you should never feed a large or giant breed puppy strictly grain free because it affects growth. All 3 of my dogs are older and my Saint Bernard didn’t come into my life until she was about 2 years old, so I didn’t deal with this issue much. They eat mostly grain free, but do well on some grain inclusive formulas (I like to rotate).

I may be getting an 8 week old Saint Bernard puppy in a few weeks (currently being weaned onto Earthborn Coastal Catch). He is also smaller than the other puppies and I want to make sure he receives optimal nutrition.

Has anybody with giant breed puppies noticed any pros or cons feeding either exclusively grain free or grain inclusive foods for growing giant puppies?

[pitlove]

Yes you can mix Trippett with dry.

I find Orijen to be too expensive. I think there are better foods out there that are much cheaper. I think my two personal favorites at this time are Dr. Tim’s Kinesis and NutriSource Large Breed Puppy.

[pitlove]

Personally, I would wait on the raw diet til she is older if she already has a curved back. I personally do not know if the curvature is something that can be fixed or not at this point. I think you need to find a large breed puppy food that she enjoys eating and stick closely to the feeding guidelines until she is 18 months old. If you want to supplement with something to encourage her to eat the only thing I would recommend is Trippett.

https://www.chewy.com/petkind-tripett-original-formula/dp/44461

[pitlove]

Hi Triet-

Has the 7 month old gone to the vet? If so, what did he/she say about the curved back? If she hasn’t gone I would bring her.

It is very important to feed 2 meals a day and measure out each meal. Overfeeding can cause issues with bone growth and joints.

Also you do not need to use a supplement when feeding a food that is properly balanced for a large breed puppy. Stop the supplement ASAP. It is probably doing more harm than good.

[Triet S]

Hello !
– After read this instruction /best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/. I have question about this sentence. Please, explain to me what is it mean.
“Don’t use nutritional supplements when feeding your large breed puppy any commercial diet.””

– My Akita Inu 7months puppy get a curve back. What should I do for her now ?

[pitlove]

Hey all here is the response I got:

You submitted the following question to the PetDiets website.

Your Question:
In regards to large breed puppy foods. Is it safe for the calcium to calorie ratio to fall below 3g/1000 kcals?

Response from our Nutritionist:
The NRC 2006 min is 2.0 g Ca/Mcal for growth and we know no different for large puppies.

Respectfully,
R Remillard, PhD, DVM, DACVN

[Wabi S]

Yes, I’m referring to this food.

https://frommfamily.com/products/gold/dog/dry/large-breed-puppy-gold/technical-analysis/

[pitlove]

Hi Wabi-

Only 2 of Taste of the Wilds formulas are safe for a growing large breed puppy. Those would be both of their formulas that say “puppy” on the bag, however they are all lifestages foods.

The recommended calcium to calorie ratio for a large breed puppy food is 3g/1000 kcal or lower and should not exceed the safe upper limit of 4.5g.

[Wabi S]

Hello,

First post, but I’ve been reading here a few days.

I have a 12 week old purebred Saint Bernard puppy. She’s currently on Eagle Pack but I’d like to switch her to something else, I’m thinking either Orijen if I can afford it on a regular basis (I heard their prices went up and their bag size is going down) or Fromm Gold Holistic Large Breed Puppy. $50 or under is ideal, but I can probably budget a little more if the food is worth it. Any suggestions? Also, how long should I be feeding puppy food?

An as aside, if it helps anyone, I contacted Taste of the Wild and they got back to me today. Here’s what they said about their food:

“Below are the calcium and phosphorous levels for all of our dry formulas. The levels below are based on an as fed basis of a typical analysis of the formula.

High Prairie Canine with Roasted Venison & Roasted Bison

Calcium: 2.1%

Phosphorus: 1.4%

Pacific Stream Canine with Smoked Salmon

Calcium: 1.9%

Phosphorus: 1.1%

Wetlands Canine with Roasted Wild Fowl

Calcium: 2.1%

Phosphorus: 1.4%

Sierra Mountain Canine with Roasted Lamb

Calcium: 1.6%

Phosphorus: 1.0%

Southwest Canine with Wild Boar

Calcium: 1.9%

Phosphorus: 1.1%

Pine Forest Canine with Venison & Legumes

Calcium: 1.4%

Phosphorus: 0.9%

Appalachian Valley Small Breed Canine with Venison & Garbanzo Beans

Calcium: 1.8%

Phosphorus: 1.2%

High Prairie Puppy with Roasted Venison & Roasted Bison

Calcium: 1.4%

Phosphorus: 1.0%

Pacific Stream Puppy with Smoked Salmon

Calcium: 1.3%

Phosphorus: 1.0%”

Hope this helps someone.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by Wabi S.