[theBCnut]

Liver enzymes can be elevated due to any insult to the liver, such as heartworm meds, flea meds, fertilizer, bug sprays, herbicides, cleaning agents, etc. They just usually go up for a short time and then go back down again. It’s when they don’t go back down that you start worrying about liver damage, so having bloodwork repeated is the way to go. But make sure there is nothing going on around the house that might be an exposure.

[pugmomsandy]

How old is your dog? Two of my dogs had an elevated liver enzyme at one check up and then normal the next. It is not just diet that can affect it but also things like medications and pesticides (ingested or topical like heartworm/flea/tick meds) that are filtered through the liver. Ask you vet about milk thistle and have the enzymes rechecked. What are you currently feeding your dog?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Really? I’m going to have to look into that. I know I’ve always read that if at any point in time the temperature dips below 57 the cycle needs to start again. Dr. Becker’s article says: “During the time the heartworm larvae are developing from L1 to L3 inside an infected mosquito, which is approximately a two-week period, the temperature must not dip below 57°F at any point in time. If it does, the maturation cycle is halted. According to Washington State University heartworm report from 2006, full development of the larvae requires ‘the equivalent of a steady 24-hour daily temperature in excess of 64°F (18°C) for approximately one month.'” So I suppose – according to Washington State University – if the overall temperature averages over 64 for a month you’d need the preventative even if it dips below 57 at times. Well it’s only been up to the 80’s for about a week (it was snowing only three weeks couple weeks ago – north country lol) – definitely has not averaged over 64 for a month. I put my sticker on the calendar to start the first dose Thursday so I’m sure they’ll be fine either way.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Cyndi]

Wow! You learn something new every day! Thanks for the education on that, really! I never knew all that. I just know that mosquitos get really bad around here. I didn’t know temperature had anything to do with them carrying heartworm.

Thanks! 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

The Heartworm “preventative” doesn’t really “prevent” heartworm – it kills existing immature worms. So you start later than you’d think because you would be worming for an already existing infection (I hope that makes sense). Also – keep in mind just because there are mosquitoes there isn’t necessarily hearworm. If the temperature drops below 57 degrees at any point in time the heartworm development cycle (within the mosquito) will have to start again – it has to be over 57 degrees for two consecutive weeks. Right now where I am it’s over 80 degrees during the day and I’ve seen mosquitoes but it still gets into the 40’s at night. The map is just a guideline – monitor the temperature. I usually end up starting at the end of May or very beginning of June.

[Cyndi]

Well, from what I’ve read on this site, I personally trust your judgement 100%. I was skeptical about not giving heartworm preventative and have been doing every the natural way. And I know that heartworm is nothing to mess around with once a dog has gotten it. Thank you, once again, for your opinion and your help. I am so glad I found this site, and all the knowledgeable people on it giving advice.

Thank you again! 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

In the past I’ve generally used regular Heartguard (not Heartguard Plus), but this year I got Valuheart (the generic). I just look for one that only has Ivermectin and not Ivermectin/Pyrantel. It’s recommended to give every 30 days but I (like Marie) give it every 45, less total doses a year and the studies done on the product have shown them to be effective for 45 days. The milk thistle is to help protect the liver. Dr. Becker has a map on her site that shows what month you should give the first dose and what month you should give the last dose depending on where you live. Remember – it’s a personal choice whether or not you want to give a heartworm preventative. I’m not trying to persuade you in either direction, just giving my point of view. Whatever route you go make sure you do a lot of research on the pros and cons of not administering, limited administration (like what I do) and administration per manufacturers recommendations (every 30 days, year round) – there will be risks no matter what you do so it’s very important to make the most informed decision possible.

[Cyndi]

Hound Dog Mom, what brand of heartworm preventative do you use for your dogs? I was on the fence about not giving it anymore, because I read alot about it, but the mosquitos are so bad in my neck of the woods. I did start her last month on one dose, but I was very hesitant about giving it again. I have Tri-Heart Plus, that I bought from my vet.

[Hound Dog Mom]

During flea season I bathe the dogs every 2 – 3 weeks with Dr. Harvey’s herbal protection shampoo, then I brush them with a flea comb and the next day I apply Sentry Natural Defense topical (comes in a tube like Advantix/Frontline, but it’s chemical free and contains only essential oils). They get Earth Animal’s herbal flea and tick tincture in their food 6 days a week. I wash their bedding every 2 – 3 weeks and add borax to the detergent. I spray the yard every 2 – 3 weeks with Vet’s Best Flea & Tick Yard and Kennel Spray (has peppermint oil and clove extract). This will be my second summer going natural. Last summer I used no chemicals and had no issues with fleas or ticks (and my dogs are outside a lot).

I’m with Marie on the heartworm preventative deal – that’s something I’m not risking. There’s a story online somewhere (maybe dog aware?). About a woman who raised deerhounds – raw fed, no vaccines, no preventatives, etc. She had, I believe it was, two of her dogs get diagnosed with heartworm one summer. Many will say dogs raised naturally and with a strong immune systems won’t get heartworm, but that’s not true. They may be less susceptible but they’re not immune. I work at a shelter and have seen too many dogs die of heartworm and many more that have had to endure the harsh treatment to get rid of the heartworm once they have it. Not something I’m chancing with my crew. They get heartworm preventative May – October every 45 days. I use the preventative that only does heartworm (not the preventative that also has a dewormer) and I administer milk thistle for one week after they receive the preventative. I also have them tested two weeks prior to receiving their first dose of the year and two weeks after receiving their last dose of the year.

[InkedMarie]

I don’t use topicals either but I do use Heartworm preventive. Heartworm is not something I’m willing to chance. I do give it May to October, every 45 days. less than most people do.

[Cyndi]

I ordered that Mercola Natural Flea and Tick Defense the other day. It should be arriving today. I can’t wait to use it and I really hope it works. I am going to use that and I also have been using Diatomaceous Earth and give Bailey a bit of garlic. I will NEVER use a topical flea treatment again, nor will I use a heartworm preventative. In doing all my research that I have been doing over the last few months, I have read alot of not so good things about both. I’ll be sticking to the all natural stuff.

I’ll keep you posted about the Mercola stuff and let you know what I think about it.

[pugmomsandy]

Hi Betsy,

I used it last year and didn’t have any problems. I’m in TX. My senior girl also liked to sunbath and lay outside alot and she and others didn’t get fleas. I haven’t seen mosquitoes yet around here but I’m sure they’re coming! At the end of the year I also tried out Halo Herbal Dip. I used it concentrated and put a couple drops 4 or 5 on their harness. It can be put on cloth. And also mixed with water for a spray. I would carry a collar with some drops on it out with me when I went out and I didn’t get bit either. I just bought some essential oil or eucalyptus citriodora to add a few drops to the mercola bottle. I also put in a little neem oil. I treated my yard with garlic, neem and cedar oil sprays last year too and once maybe last month. I have about 6 bottles in the cupboard. And none of my pugs got heartworm or tapeworms since I don’t give anything for that. They all had their check-up in April.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[Anonymous]

I live about half mile from people who collect animals. They have donkeys, cows, dogs, cats, whatever they feel like at the moment. They had a beautiful red doberman and a very unusual brindle boxer tied out in pitiful conditions. I worked with our local shelter and talked them into letting me find a home for the dobie. SPCA took him in and cured his bad case of heartworms and found him a wonderful home with a local fireman. I could not talk them into letting me take the boxer. That dog spent 9 years tied out with a choker to a dog house. Broke my heart. Earlier this year I saw the daughter and asked how the boxer was doing, actually I asked was it still alive? due to the heartworms in the dobie. She told her father and he called the sheriff who visited me and acted quite confused that he was there because the father had told him I had spoken to his adult daughter and said they do not properly care for their pets! Which I did not say, I was very polite with the daughter, but he must have felt guilty and took it that way. It is so disheartening when you cannot politely push someone toward doing a better job with their animals. It broke my heart to see that darling boxer day in and day out tied in crappy weather. I am sure it has died now, I do not see any life there anymore. They also allow cats to live in a constant state of just alive, running all around, getting hit by cars, thin and runny eyes. They do not care one bit when people stop and ask them to control their cats so they don’t have a wreck in front of their house. I have just trapped and neutered two cats from their place. At first they were wild but now have come around and are sweet as pie! Anyway just wanted to vent about it to people who understood.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I got talked into trying Trifexis back when it first came out. My older male dog tolerated it fine but my female vomited everytime I gave it to her. I then found out I didn’t want all the extras in Trifexis (flea preventative, broad spectrum dewormer) – it’s too much chemicals. I switched back to the regular Heartguard that just does heartworm and I only administer it during heartworm season (late spring to early fall where I am) and I no longer use any chemical flea and tick preventatives or wormers.

[KC-Cajun]

My dogs were on Sentinel forever with no problems. After the recall, the vet prescribed Trifexia for heartworm/fleas. My lab is doing fine, but my beagle became very ill with lethargy and terrible diarrhea for weeks. It’s gotten much better but she still has occasional diarrhea, which she never had before. I switched her to another heartworm med and she tolerated it okay. The vet insists it wasn’t the Trifexia and that it was a coincidence that the diarrhea started 12 hours after her first pill. She suggested it may be a colitis or irritable bowel syndrome that just happened to start after taking the Trifexia :). Coincidences do happen, but I’m a bit skeptic.

But why the bouts of diarrhea since October? About once I week I’ll see something “loose” in the yard. She’s been on 4 treatments of Flagyl and probiotic packets and it just won’t go away. Before I spend $$$$ on further tests and treatments, perhaps someone here had the same problem and found a cure.

[Alexandra]

Hi Aimee,

“They” is the AKC.

That’s what I mean, how often does the animal get tested? And as you said, they are reflective of the day of the test. It smells fishy to me, because of that.

Maybe it does, I feel that the AVMA is doing the anti raw at the request of the companies that many of them prescribe.

The homeopathic battle can be linked to traditional vets taking a hit as owners are waking up to issues stemming from over vaccinating. Alternative therapies to help our pets, saying no to flea and heartworm prevention, which causes more harm to the dog then a flea bite will.

I think they are doing this not for “health” as they claim, but to keep their group in money. Ultimately, who benefits from this? The vets. And what concerns me it it the close minded ones that benefit the most. My traditional vet doesn’t want to hear about the benefits of raw, never mind that my four year olds teeth look like a two year old, pearly white. No body odor, smaller stool volumes, etc. am I to lie and say kibble all the time to avoid the lecture?

[aimee]

I took a look too. It seems AVMA is inviting AKC into a discussion revolving around animal health. I looked at the AKC rules and reg for showing and their section on health seems very limited in scope and outdated. Maybe I just was looking in the wrong location??

The take away I had was the AVMA wants to encourage the clubs hosting the shows to establish health recommendations for the exhibitors based on local disease incidence. They are recommending that all exhibitors dogs be free of parasites but I too didn’t see this as AVMA saying all dogs had to be on heartworm and flea and tick prevention just that they not be carrying. : )

I also took a skim through the AVMA’s Prinicples of Vaccination and it seems if anything AVMA is saying use vaccine judiciously based on risk assessment.

[Alexandra]

Hi Melissa,

I am concerned that they don’t mention titering or exemptions. I know when I register for shows vaccines or health records NEVER come up.

I did misread the heartworm/parasites stance.

But how can a private organization feel that they can tell a club what they should allow? Who drives the AVMA?

First they frown upon raw foods, now they are going after homeopathic practices, where do they stop? I doubt that their motives are 100% pure. Their vets would gain an influx of business by having vets do all of these tests, and most are probably not necessary.

I have been skeptical of this organization for sometime, and even more so recently.

[Melissaandcrew]

ALexandra-

Just took a quick look and I am not getting the same thing you got : )

1) it says the guidelines would be vaccinated as appropriate for the shows area-this makes sense. If parvo is a huge factor in a show area, it only makes sense that all dogs coming to the show be current or titered The question would come into play as to what each individual show is requiring(which some shows already do!) I am betting that exemptions would not be an issue since the vaccine status is verified by your own veterinarian : )

2) Dogs would have to have certificate for interstate travel(this is a basic health exam and form that gets filled out) Believe it or not, many states already have these laws in place, owners just ignore them or never look into them. Rescues/transporters for rescues keep a travel log and any dog travelling through an affected state are certain to travel with required paperwork

3)No where does it say flea/heartworm preventative is required. It says the dog must be internal and externally parasite free. For me, that is a no brainer. This can be accomplished with a fecal and visual check at the health exam for transport.

[Alexandra]

To those of us that show, have shown, or plan on showing:

As more us lean toward holistic treatments for our dogs with regards to the vaccines, the AVMA is going to bring its overblown ideas to the AKC. This spring they are to sit down with the AKC and update the clubs rules with regards to vaccines and other preventative uses. The AVMA is proposing that the AKC mandates that exhibitors dogs need to have all vaccines as required by the area the show is in. They MUST be on heartworm and flea and tick preventatives. Dogs that show out of state must be certified by a vet in their home state that they meet the protocols of that show.

This will impact those of us who show and don’t do all the yearly vaccines. I for one, will no longer support the AKC and look to other venues to compete in, if this comes into effect.

[Shawna]

No, Audrey has never had any other issues except the kd. Blood pressure is good.. Her kidneys didn’t develop properly before being born. I do everything in my power to make sure she has little to no inflammation in her body. I don’t have any toxins in my home that the kidneys/liver have to filter. I looked at the ingredients in all the products I used (swiffer sweeper cleaning liquid etc) and checked their MSDS or the CDC to see if each ingredient was kidney friendly. I got rid of almost all cleaners etc I was using prior to Audrey coming to me. Many (actually most) of them were “green” too.

She also only gets reverse osmosis or distilled water.. The tap water in my area is not truly “clean” (has fluoride etc).

I do give her nutraceuticals as well — she gets enzymes with EVERY meal. She gets the pro and prebiotics as needed. She gets a product called Canine Renal Support from Standard Process which I think has been a HUGE part of her health. I also give her Canine Hepatic Support to help her liver. The liver is more likely to get stressed because the kidneys aren’t doing their part. She gets extra vitamin B complex and C — these are water soluble vitamins and are lost in excess due to the large volumes of urine so they need to be supplemented. Most vets don’t discuss these kinds of things that will help our kd pups live a longer healthier life…

Audrey has NEVER had a rabies shot. She is exempted for life. She’s never had any vaccines except her first puppy shots (distemper, parvo and adeno). No lymes, lepto, kennel cough etc. They know that vaccines can stress the kidneys. She also has never had flea/tick or heartworm meds, pharmaceutical dewormers etc. ALL of these add insult to injury.

I haven’t used it but I’ve spoken with others that have had very very good success with an herbal regimen by Five Leaf Pharmacy (my father is a Master Herbalist so he could make these for me at less than half the cost—otherwise I probably would have tried them).. He liked the formulas.. http://caninekidneyhealth.com/

[weimlove]

Patty & Betsy-
That is good to know, thanks for sharing! I will definintly discuss other alternative options with my vet. It can be difficult to find a low dose medicine that only prevents heartworm.

[weimlove]

Toxed, thanks for all of your information! Do you know if regular vets can give nosodes? That seems like the best option for me. Our golden retriever (who is in heaven now) contracted heartworms about five years ago. The treatment for them were awful. Thankfully, she came through. Since I live in FL, and their are always mosquitos I definintly want to use some kind of prevention. I will definintly ask my vet if she does them.

[theBCnut]

I grew up in LA and they didn’t do heartworm prevention there, then(1970s). But when we knew we were moving to FL starting prevention was the one thing our vet insisted on before the move, which tells me FL has a much higher prevalance.

[Toxed2loss]

Here’s another vet’s take.. He practiced & lived in Santa Cruz, where there was a prevalence,
“Heartworms

This parasite is a source of great anxiety among dog caretakers. (I don’t believe that one “owns” a dog.) Thanks in large part to the scare tactics of many veterinarians in promoting preventive drugs, many people believe that contracting heartworms is the equivalent of a death sentence for their dogs. This is not true.
I practiced for seven years in the Santa Cruz, California area, and treated many dogs with heartworms. The only dogs that developed symptoms of heart failure were those that were being vaccinated yearly, eating commercial dog food, and getting suppressive drug treatment for other symptoms, such as skin problems. My treatment, at that time, consisted of switching to a natural (that is, homemade) diet, stopping drug treatment whenever possible, and eliminating any chemical exposure, such as flea and tick poisons. I would usually prescribe hawthorn tincture as well. None of these dogs ever developed any symptoms of heart failure.
I concluded from this that it was not the heartworms that caused disease, but the other factors that damaged the dogs’ health to the point that they could no longer compensate for an otherwise tolerable parasite load. It is not really that different from the common intestinal roundworms, in that most dogs do not show any symptoms. Only a dog whose health is compromised is unable to tolerate a few worms. Furthermore, a truly healthy dog would not be susceptible to either type of worm in the first place.

It seems to me that the real problem is that allopathic attitudes have instilled in many of us a fear of disease, fear of pathogens and parasites, fear of rabies, as if these are evil and malicious entities just waiting to lay waste to a naive and unprotected public.

Disease is not caused by viruses or by bacteria or by heartworm-bearing mosquitoes. Disease comes from within, and one aspect of disease can be the susceptibility to various pathogens. So the best thing to do is to address those susceptibilities on the deepest possible level, so that the pathogens will no longer be a threat. Most importantly, don’t buy into the fear.

That having been said, there are practical considerations of risk versus benefit in considering heartworm prevention. The risk of a dog contracting heartworms is directly related to geographic location. In heavily infested areas the risk is higher, and the prospect of using a preventive drug more justifiable. Whatever you choose to do, a yearly blood test for heartworm microfilaria is important.

There are basically three choices with regard to heartworm prevention: drugs, nosodes, or nothing.

There are currently a variety of heartworm preventive drugs, most of which are given monthly. I don’t like any of them due to their toxicity, the frequency of side effects, and their tendency to antidote homeopathic remedies. Incidentally, the once-a-month preventives should be given only every 6 weeks.

The next option is the heartworm nosode. It has the advantage of at least not being a toxic drug. It has been in use it for over 10 years now, and I am reasonably confident that it is effective. It is certainly very safe. The biggest problem with the nosode is integrating it with homeopathic treatment. But at least it’s less of a problem than with the drugs.

The last option, and in my opinion the best, is to do nothing. That is to say, do nothing to specifically prevent heartworm, but rather to minimize the chances of infestation by helping your dog to be healthier, and thereby less susceptible. This means avoiding those things that are detrimental to health, feeding a high quality homemade diet, regular exercise, a healthy emotional environment, and, most of all, constitutional homeopathic treatment. Of course, this will not guarantee that your dog will not get heartworms, but, under these conditions, even the worst-case scenario isn’t so terrible. If your dog were to get heartworms, s/he shouldn’t develop any symptoms as a result.

For what it’s worth, I never gave my dog any type of heartworm preventive, even when we lived in the Santa Cruz area where heartworms were very prevalent. I tested him yearly, and he never had a problem.” Dr. Jeffery Levy DVM PCH http://www.homeovet.net/content/lifestyle/section4.html

[Toxed2loss]

Hi Weimlove,
I don’t have a huge Heartworm threat up here but, to be on the safe side I did some reading up on it & non toxics approaches. Dr. Wil Falconer, a holistic DVM, wrote a book on natural Heartworm prevention. His website is here: http://vitalanimal.com/immune-path/.

Another sight that might be helpful is this one, it gives 6 homeopathic methods and it encourages the same kind of program that Shawna mentioned. http://www.danebytes.com/heartworm-cures.htm

The bottom line is a healthy animal defends its self against Heartworm, and other parasitic attacks. Meds are insecticides… Poisons. If you use Heartworm “Meds”, you are also making your pet sick. Parasites are stronger than mammals. They’re harder to kill. In order to kill, or poison the parasite the dose of poison has to be pretty high. Keeping your pet optimally healthy, and using non-toxic repellents on your pet for the insect vector (Mosquitos) is a much better foundation. Like Shawna, I strongly believe that garlic can kill the wolbachia. But check out some of the homeopathic site’s cures. 😉

[DogFoodie]

Hi guys, PattyVaughn was wanting to get a message to Weimlove. Patty is having trouble posting in the forum so I’m hoping this message reaches you on her behalf.

Pattyvaughn
My posts are disappearing on the forum right now and there is a poster there, Weimlove, that lives in Florida that is asking questions involving heartworm prevention and flea prevention that I would love if someone would relay info to. She is planning on going with Heartguard and there are a few dogs every year that turn up heartworm positive at the proper dose in Florida. Heartguard is losing its effectiveness, so she should discuss that with her vet too.

[DogFoodie]

Hi guys, PattyVaughn was wanting to get a message to Weimlove. Patty is having trouble posting in the forum so I’m hoping this message reaches you on her behalf.

Pattyvaughn
My posts are disappearing on the forum right now and there is a poster there, Weimlove, that lives in Florida that is asking questions involving heartworm prevention and flea prevention that I would love if someone would relay info to. She is planning on going with Heartguard and there are a few dogs every year that turn up heartworm positive at the proper dose in Florida. Heartguard is losing its effectiveness, so she should discuss that with her vet too.

[Hound Dog Mom]

From Pattyvaughn:

“My posts are disappearing on the forum right now and there is a poster there, Weimlove, that lives in Florida that is asking questions involving heartworm prevention and flea prevention that I would love if someone would relay info to. She is planning on going with Heartguard and there are a few dogs every year that turn up heartworm positive at the proper dose in Florida. Heartguard is losing its effectiveness, so she should discuss that with her vet too.”

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi weimlove –

I’m a fan of flea free, I used it two summers ago. I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend it, I believe some other posters here have said they use it as well. This past year is the first year I’ve gone chemical free for fleas and ticks, the year before I had my dogs on Trifexis as well. My male never had a problem with the Trifexis but on two different occasions my female puked and I had to redose her. Knowing what I know now I regret giving them something with so many chemicals! It covers fleas, heartworm and it’s a broad-spectrum dewormer in one – kinda explains the puking, all those medications in one pill must be stressful to the system.

[theBCnut]

Heartguard has lost some of it’s effectiveness in Florida. There are some heartworm positive dogs every year that have been on Heartguard at the proper dose. My vet will no longer prescribe it.

[weimlove]

Hi folks,
I currently have my two year old weimaraner on Trifexis for fleas, heartworm, and other parasites. After doing some research, I am realizing that this medicine could be doing more harm that good. I am also about to switch to a raw diet. I have heard that many people who feed raw dont use any preventatives. Since I live in FL, there are always mosquitos so I plan on atleast using heart guard. Do any of you have an opinion on flea treatment? Do you think I need to continue treating for fleas? If so, do you know of any natural alternatives? Thanks!

[Shawna]

Some vets feel that heartworm preventatives are substantially increasing our pups risks of cancer. I’m not sure cancer is any better of a disease to get than heartworm? For every give, there is a take.

There is a vet in southern Florida that is having very good results with alternative heartworm treatment (nosodes to be specific).

“In my holistic practice, heartworm nosodes ( a homeopathic vaccine) are used as a preventative, on a monthly basis after the initial protocol period, and have proven to be extremely effective. Unfortunately, no statistics are available, but our records indicate no active infestations in any animal tested for heart worms in the past 8 years at our clinic who were protected with the heartworm nosode.” http://www.holisticvetclinic.net/pages/heartworm_treatment

Dr. Martin Goldstein featured on Oprah, Martha Stewart, author etc also does not recommend heartworm for any of his clients. He is in New York but has clients all over the US. He links heartworm to cancer in his book “The Nature of Animal Healing”.

There is also a vet that lived in San Francisco (I’m blanking on a name now) that didn’t give his own pup heartworm pills and never contracted heartworm.

The thing to consider with heartworm — the pup has to be bitten by a mosquito carrying heartworm in L3 stage, the dog has to be bitten twice, the immune system has to be weak enough not to kill the worms from the get go, both male and female worms have to be present etc. Because a dog tests positive for heartworm does not mean the pup has a life threatening case. Example — if only female worms are present the dog will test positive but the worms can not multiply and will die of old age without consequence.

Regarding treatment — if detection happens before a full blown infestation (which takes time), an antibiotic can be given to kill the wolbachia bacteria that makes heartworm infections so dangerous. Once wolbachia are dead the remaining worms become steralized and can not reproduce. They will eventually die or can be killed off by heartguard. I haven’t seen studies yet but I’d bet money that garlic kills wolbachia (it is known to kill antibiotic resistant MRSA, giardia, coccidia and other roundworms (which heartworm is a roundworm)).

I’m not suggesting that you don’t give heartworm, I am suggesting that we should intimately know our enemies. We may find that they are not as dangerous as our vets etc would have us believe.. 🙂

[Shawna]

Weimlove,

HDM mentions her thoughts about veggies in an earlier post on this thread. Here’s the first couple sentences but there’s more “Concerning vegetables, many don’t feel that they’re necessary. Vegetables aren’t part of a dog’s natural diet and I do agree that as long as everything else I described above is provided that they probably aren’t necessary, but I do strongly feel that when they’re provided in small quantities they can be a beneficial addition to the dog’s diet.”

I agree COMPLETELY with her. Our dogs are subjected to SO MANY MORE toxins than their ancestors and certainly more than wolves. Examples — formaldehyde is off gased from particle board furniture for the life of the piece, gas fumes from gas water heaters and vehicles, the chemical PFOA in tephlon pans and wrappers like those on microwave popcorn bags can actually kill a bird at the right concentration, fluoride in drinking water, vaccinations/heartworm/flea tick etc…

Not to mention, many don’t bother feeding organic. Bones from CAFO cattle can be high in contaminants like fluoride. The meat is higher in saturated fat than grass finished beef. The meat can be tainted due to the GMO corn and soy etc etc etc. Additionally, “prey” is going to include fiber from the small amounts of ingested fur, sodium from the blood of the animal, ALL the organs — brains are a source of omega 3 DHA, heart has taurine, pancreas has enzymes, tripe has more fiber (in the bits of ingested plant material that comes with) and probiotics and enzymes and on and on.. Many “prey model” enthusiasts don’t account for all these missing nutrients.

The extra vitamins, minerals and antioxidants in fruits and veggies just seem like a really good idea when we are subjecting our pets to so many toxins that would not be found in their natural environment (or their ancestor’s that is).

Veggies should be cooked or run through the blender or food processor. Running them thorugh the blender breaks down the cellulose layer without needing heat which can damage the natural enzymes within the food. If you would eat the veggie/fruit raw than you can give it to your dog raw too — cucumbers, peppers, berries, celery, zucchini (sp?), carrots, tomatoes etc. The finer they are blended they more nutrients are released. If you would cook it for yourself, cook it for pup — acorn squash, sweet potato etc. Best way to cook them is to steam them in a steamer (can be purchased for $40.00 or less). Add the water from the steamers drip tray back into the food as some minerals are leached during cooking and you can add them back by adding the water back.

Hope that helps :).

[Shawna]

Glad the recommended sites were helpful 🙂 The dog in my avatar (my Audrey) was born with kidney disease. She started showing symptoms as early as 6 weeks old and was officially diagnosed at her 1 year blood work. Audrey received only her first set of puppy shots (at the breeders before coming to me) and has never been vaccinated for rabies (she is exempt for life due to her disease). I truly believe in minimal vaccination, minimal toxic exposure (heartworm, flea/tick, yard chemicals, fluoridated water etc), species appropriate diets etc. Audrey is living proof. She is now 6 and 1/2 years old and still in excellent health (still has kidney disease but she’s not sick). She’s been raw fed since she was weaned. I used to home make her diet but life got busy and I don’t have the time to do it properly right now so I feed commercial raw.. I foster too and from this Audrey has been exposed to giardia, coccidia, ringworm, kennel cough etc. If she does get ill from these it is always short lived and she to date has not required medical intervention for anything… She’s VERY healthy despite having kidney disease. Imagine how healthy an already healthy dog can be with the right food and limited toxic exposures..? 🙂

[pugmomsandy]

I’ve just been doing the essential oils/natural sprays/garlic for fleas and mosquitoes. And if I do give a heartworm preventative it is the low dose milbemycin as close to 0.1 mg per lb as I can get it which is the smallest dose of Interceptor. At that dosage it does not cover intestinal parasites.

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/Products/ApprovedAnimalDrugProducts/FOIADrugSummaries/ucm054862.htm

[weimlove]

Hi,
I have also begun looking for a natural way to prevent heartworms. I live in Florida, so there are always mosquitos so it is very important for Shadow (my weim) to have some sort of prevention. As of now, Shadow takes Trifectus for fleas and heartworms monthly. We have never had any problems with fleas, so I am thinking about switching him to a natural flea preventative and maybe just useing hearguard to prevent heartworms. Does anyone know of any other natural heartworm preventatives?

[Toxed2loss]

Hi Sophia,

Insects are far more resilient than mammals. So much so that by the over use of chemical insecticides we’ve inadvertently produced pests that are immune to them. The chemical companies keep producing and selling more harmful chemicals in response. These poison our pets. So I’m copying a post that I originally shared on the Mercola Healthy Pets forum. Just in case you want to go that route.

“IPM Fleas
I use a method that my daughter and I developed when she went off to college (with her dog) and discovered her apartment and yard were infested from the previous renter’s cat and the abundance of ferel cats that frequented her yard. My daughter is an IPM entomologist and started her professional career at age 15. Here’s what we worked out.:

The first thing to consider is breaking the flea life cycle, which is: hatch out of eggs laid in textiles or litter, feed as nymph, metamorphasize to adult, hop on dog, mate/feed, hop off, lay eggs, repeat…

Bathing your dog regularly is a great way to interrupt the flea reproductive cycle… if they don’t reproduce, no resident fleas.

I use a fragrance free, non toxic detergent. I am currently using naturoli’s soapnut shampoo. Its extremely mild and nourishes the skin and coat. All the pet shampoos (even the hypo-allergenic ones) at pet stores have stuff I wouldn’t use, therefore, I won’t put it on my dogs. Occassionally I use a few drops of a REPELLENT, non toxic pet shampoo along with the detergent. I use Earthypet, for the drops. I get it at http://www.allnaturalcosmetics.com Its very fragrant, and more than 1 drop per small dog, 2 for med-large hurts me. I can only imagine how much it offends the dog. (For your sick dogs, I’d avoid the aromatics until they recover!) One of the ways you can monitor if the VOCs are too high for your dog is, “do they rub their face on the carpet?” That indicates that it is hurting their noses.

Keep in mind that your dog could still have gotten flea born diseases when you used a pesticide, as it takes a while for the resident fleas to get killed. A repellent, like lavender and rosemary oils, keeps the blood feeders away, and therefore prevents insect vectored diseases.

When I bath my pom. I fill up the laundry sink and have her sit in it for 3-5 min. I protect the ears and nose. I also watch for fleeing fleas and squish ’em. Make sure they pop. You will also see them swimming in the tub. Squish those too. Washing them down the drain isn’t enough. They hop back out. Also for the first several weeks, check your dog, down to the skin in a well lit area for fleas. Use a desk lamp. The fleas will come to the warmth. You’ll still have to comb through all her hair and examine all of her skin. If she’s picked up a tick, or cheat grass, you will find it during this procedure. Don’t forget to squish the fleas. When you aren’t seeing them or their “dirt”, you can move your bath times to less frequently, but monitor to find the best schedule. I bath more frequently during heavy hatches. Contact your State University, Experiment Station Entomologist for the timing of the heaviest hatch(es) in your area.

Next: frequent laundering (weekly to every 2 weeks) of your dogs bedding, with borax as a laundry booster: 1/4 to 1/2 cup per load. Borax residues form crystals in the fabric, which scratch through the exoskeleton and cause the adults to suffocate. I love that part! (dry on Hot) Fleas lay their eggs near where your dog habitates, in fibers: Carpet, upholstry, bedding. Flea nymphs hatch out and start feeding on what’s in their environment. Residual borax is consumed and kills the nymphs.

For control in carpets and upholstery, I wash them (steam clean) with borax solution. Its also a great way to get out petroleum and oil stains… as well as odors. Unless something happens, I shampoo a couple of times a year, like during major hatch cycles. (spring) and at the end of the summer to minimize the indoor population. The borax crystalizes after this too, and kills both adults and nymphs.

So, this method kills by drowning or suffocating the adults, poisoning the nymphs, and drowning/frying the eggs. It is an intergrated, (non invasive) pest management practice or IPM.

There are a number of things you can do to deter mosquitos from feeding on your pet. The aromatics work by repelling, but you can use garlic, (one of Shawna’s favorites!) Or complex Bs make the blood unpalatable to insects. I have frequently fed brewer’s yeast to get the Bs, but I’m hearing some downsides. Get a good supplement. Healthy raw foods with lightly cooked broccoli and other cruciferous veggies (see Dr. Becker’s book for amounts) are high in sulfur, and that repels mosquitos. Tumeric and curry (garam masala) have healing properties as well as making you “not a biting insects preferred snack.” Hope that helps! 🙂

I also mix up a spray bottle with water and some of Dr. Bronner’s Castile, mint oil soap. It repels mosquitos. I use this as a spray-on during peak seasons or heavy hatches. I went to the coast a few years back in May. I used this and everyone else in the campground was slapping mosquitos, regardless of “off” and deet, and I didn’t have even one, near me. It lasted all night. As you probably know mosquitos vector heartworm. So this little preventive measure goes a long way in protecting pups from heartworm.”

Hope that helps!

[Toxed2loss]

Good posts Patty & Shawna!

Like Shawna, I have personal detox stories. I was sprayed with monitor, an organophosphate insecticide, while surveying a farm, then repeatedly & deliberately exposed to several pesticides. Eventually I became so immune compromised that every toxic substance, even trace amounts through second or third hand exposures, produced life threatening reactions. Multiple heart attacks, strokes, seizures respiratory paralysis, asthma, lymphoma, lymphodenopathy…. It’s a huge list. At one time it was 3 pages, 3 columns. I experience new and different reactions depending on the bio-interactions of the specific toxins I’m exposed to. Yes, I also deal with boils, sores, hives, weals, itching, chemical burns, conjunctivitis (gooby or crusty eyes), ear itching & discharge, scalp reactions, TMJ, IBS… You name it. 8 years ago the doctor I used to see told me to go home and die. He said, “There is no treatment, there is no cure, it will get worse with every exposure. Go home and avoid all (exposures).” Then he told me he wouldn’t see me, or help me, anymore. The good news is he was wrong. :-}

Sonia, my 16 year old Pom, has gone through the deliberate spraying and is toxically injured, too. She’s had 3 surgeries for tumors, has seizures upon exposures, and has had both the eye & ear problems. She also had motor impairment & neurosis. Her symptoms flair during environmental exposures and resolve after detoxing. Like many of you I used to give her the annual vacs and regular worming. She’s much better since I quit those.

Rosie, my 2 yr old service dog, had a very bad reaction to her first, and only, set of vacs. She is still detoxing that vac. A Merck immunologist told me it would take at least 2 years. My doc did some more research and said, probably 3. Her symptoms include conjunctivitis, ear discharge & lymphatic cysts.

Different toxins take different amounts of time to fully detox. The cleaner (non-toxic) your, or your pets, diet and environment, the better you or they are able to handle the current toxins, and unload them: detox. Let me give you a couple of analogies. The one my doctor likes to use is to equate the immune system to a rain barrel, the kind that waters the lawn or garden. Every day toxins fill it up, and are drained off at a certain rate. When the barrel receives more than it can handle it over flows. The overflow represents symptoms of toxic injury. Small over flow, small symptoms, like itchy skin, hot spots, conjunctivitis, ear discharge. Large overflow, major alarming symptoms, which can range from chronic acute skin disorders, and impacted ears to seizures, heart attacks, respiratory distress, cancer… You get the picture. The problem is that most of us don’t recognize the problem until it manifests at the chronic level.

The analogy I use when counseling is to picture yourself in a small row boat, rowing across a large bay. The freeboard, the distance between the top of the water and the gunnel (top of the side) of the boat represents your immune system. The bay represents your life. You row across, or proceed through your life. When the weather is fine, there’s a lot of freeboard. If you’re carrying a lot of baggage, there’s less free board. Unfortunately the water often gets rough, reducing your freeboard, and even allowing water to come into your boat. (i.e. you’re operating with an impaired immune system, and most likely a chronic condition.) Most of us keep rowing along, even though now we’re pulling not only our weight and the boat’s weight, but the added weight of the water, as well. If we don’t stop and bail, eventually the boat will sink, or capsize in a storm. Bailing is detox.

You have to stop letting or putting toxins into your, or your dog’s, life. That’s the first and most important step. That means reducing or eliminating as many toxins as you possibly can from BOTH your diet and environment. Second, support the immune system. Third, assist your body in removing them.
This is not an easy answer. It takes time and commitment. Shawna gave you an excellent example illustrating that you can’t expect to treat it once and then “go back to normal.” If you go back to exposing your body to the toxic substances that trigger reactions, the symptoms of an immune system in crisis come back. They will get worse over time, you will react more violently to smaller amounts. This is because you haven’t completely cleared the toxic overload. If it helps you to visualize, you only removed the top inch or so of the water from the barrel, so its still on the verge of overflowing again. Just a little bit, and wham! symptoms. It’s called “neural sensitization” or hypersensitivity. There’s also the spreading phenomenon to consider. In Shawna’s post she talked specifically about dairy. Dairy casein’s have caused her barrel to overflow. When her immune system is that overloaded, any other toxin can’t be adequately dealt with either. So they begin to illicit symptoms as well. Soon the body learns to respond to that toxin with a “condition red” response. Here’s the good news, it can be corrected. I haven’t looked up the same info in dogs, but in people every cell in the body is replaced in 7 years. So theoretically, if you could avoid all toxic substances for 7 years, you’d have an empty barrel. O.k. There is a guy that did that, went off to a mountain top, no phone, no electricity, no toxins, and it did work. So its more than a theory. It’s just not very practical. Since our society & world are so inundated with toxins, its impossible to avoid them all. You won’t get an empty barrel. You can get a declining barrel if you commit to living non-toxic, and bailing your boat.

Oiy! There is so much more to say!! Detoxing is critical! We are living in an age of rampant toxic chemicals accepted as normal within our own homes! The CDC states that indoor air pollution is often 100 times more toxic than outside air. Cleaners, pesticides (think bug spray, flea & worm treatments, and mold killers) fragrances, laundry products, petroleum products and food additives! We slather these on every surface in our homes and right on our own, or our pets bodies. We willingly ingest them! There are three pathologies for toxic exposures: ingestion, inhalation and absorbed through the skin. Then step outside where people routinely apply pesticide to the their lawns, gardens and pavement as though it was soap & water! So do municipalities, schools, counties and states! Add to that road fumes, asphalt, dryer exhaust, industrial emissions… Etc.

Leading specialist in the fields of oncology, neurology, cardiology, pulmonary & reproductive medicine & many others are now saying that “All diseased states are caused, or exacerbated by consumer product & environmental toxins.”

We were never designed to live in a world that is inundated with so many synthetic toxins. Neither were our pets. Our bodies can’t keep up. The ADA (American’s with Disabilities Act) Region 10 office says, “chemical hypersensitivity is the fastest growing segment of the disabled population.” They don’t even consider pets, whose little bodies are closer to the ground (many widely used pesticides are heavier than air, and settle along the ground, traveling for 100s of feet, if not miles). Our pets have a faster rate of respiration, so they breathe in more. Our veterinary practices have been encouraging annual revaccinating and over vaccination as well as extremely toxic (and ineffective) flea, tick & Heartworm control. Insects are far more adaptive and resilient than mammals. We have inadvertently developed pests that are immune to the poisons… So we obediently poison our pets for nothing. 🙁 Though, there is a movement to change that. Awareness is growing.

What else do you want to know?

[Jackie B]

I still would use heart worm preventative. While I do live in a high mosquito area, I’ve seen puppies younger than 1 year with heartworm. Not defective or abused or overvaccinated or anything. Just pups who weren’t given preventative. I would never risk the health of my dog by not giving heartworm preventative. Flea and tick, you can skip if you want.

And there are probably plenty of undiagnosed cases of heartworm; you can’t rely on anecdotes or recorded case numbers. They aren’t an accurate reflection of the actual number of heartworm cases. Plus, some dogs with heartworms will be asymptomatic for a long period. And if they die w/o an autopsy being done, you never know what killed them.

[Honeybeesmom1]

Hi Shawna!
I do remember you saying you haven’t used heartworm in over 20 yrs. I wish I weren’t in such a high risk area…or I wouldn’t use. I don’t use chemmicals inside or outside…but use Diatomaceous.
A quest. about the Milk Thistle. I read you use it 3 days before and 3 days after HW treament. Is that correct?

[Shawna]

Honeybeesmom ~~ I haven’t used heartworm preventatives in any of mine for over 20 years. HOWEVER, if you feel better about using it then I think you should by all means!!!!! Since we all have to live with the consequences of the decisions we make, I think it best we make the decisions that make the most sense for our personal situation!!! 🙂 Yes, heartworm is technically a poison but because you feed well, you don’t over vaccinate, don’t treat your yard with chemicals, you limit other toxins etc, the poisons in heartworm meds are not as likely to cause a problem as in an immune compromised animal. It’s all synergistic in my opinion.. And if you use milk thistle after you can help the body eliminate the poison more efficiently.. 🙂

[Shawna]

I too agree with Hound Dog Mom BUT there is an alternative to giving the full dose — you can have a compounding pharmacy make a product specific to your pups weight. Dr. Becker mentions it in an article she wrote a year or so ago

“•Providing your dog is healthy with good kidney and liver function, go with a chemical preventive at the lowest effective dosage (compounded if necessary for dogs that weigh at the low end of dosing instructions), at six (not four) week intervals, for the minimum time necessary during mosquito season.” http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2010/08/03/why-havent-pet-owners-been-told-these-facts-about-heartworm.aspx

I also agree to only use heartworm meds as fleas are not, in most cases, life threatening and can be treated naturally as HDM mentioned. I also agree with giving every 6 weeks instead of 4 weeks. Additionally, look into the herb called milk thistle. Milk thistle helps the liver process toxins more efficiently. If you decide to give milk thistle, the product needs to be standardized to at least 70% silymarin (the “active ingredient”).

[Hound Dog Mom]

Debra23 –

If you’re concerned with giving your dog too much medication, I’d avoid Trifexis. Trifexis is a heartworm preventative, broad spectrum de-wormer and an oral flea medication. Go with a formula that is for heartworm and only heartworm – all that other stuff is not necessary and if your dog doesn’t have fleas or worms why worm it and give it flea meds? My vet got me to try Trifexis last summer and one of my dogs puked everytime I gave it to her. Worms and fleas can be effectively treated naturally anyways. I personally give a preventative that does only heartworm, I space doses 6 weeks aprart rather than 4 and only administer during late spring, early fall and summer (I’m in northern new york). I wouldn’t recommend giving a lower dose than what’s recommended.

[debra23]

Hello I have a question on the heartworm medicine. I have a min. schnauzer 9 months old. She weighs 10 lb. 2 oz. She will be small because mother was 11 lbs. and father 13lbs. My vet gives Trifexis for heartworm prevention. When she weighed in over 10 lbs he bumped her dose up for dogs that weigh 10.1 to 20lbs. That made the meds go from 140 mg to 270 mg. per dose. So last month I split the pill and just gave her 1/2 . I am uneasy doubling the dose when she only weighs 10.2. I will give her the other 1/2 next month. I am not sure about giving her that large of dose because she is still so small. I live in South Carolina and she is inside dog, goes for 2 walks a day and potty breaks only. Of course I don’t want her to get heartworms, but I also don’t want to pump her little body full of this stuff, month after month, if the smaller dose will do the job. I think Trifexis is new and not sure about long term side effects.

[InkedMarie]

My dogs get puppy shots then get titered; we do rabies every 3yrs. Heartworm prevention is something I won’t take a chance on. Honeybeesmom, you know you have to have them tested for heartworm before putting them back on prevention, right?

[Honeybeesmom1]

Thanks, Labs! I wasn’t surprised at the cases in my area, South La. I’ve seen dogs come in to the Humane Society that I worked – tested positive for HW.
These dogs were mosty outside dogs and throw aways. Mozart was picked up off the streets, a senior deerhead Chi. Poor thing had rotten teeth, dry skin, a broken shoulder that was healing and heavy heartworms.
I treated him and he peed on all of our beds and pillows. I don’t think he had EVER been inside a home.
Oh and badley abused and neglected. Had him 4 yrs. now.

Sister our Boston mix…I grabbbed her off of a busy road as a puppy. Come to find out she was only fed bread and very neglected. But I got to her before she was able to get heartworms. She would have NEVER been able to been an inside dog…with the idiots that had her! She’s been w/ us 5 yrs. now.

Have had Honeybee 9 yrs. Since 6 wks. old. And he’s HW free. Like I’ve said…I’m just torn on what to do. Figured I would put back oh HW prevention…but Honeybee has me scared. I think it would do him more harm than good. Mosquitoes are gone right now…so at least that’s giving me some time to think, research more and decide.
I know first hand the horrors of heartworms in pets…it’s horrible! But then again, what about the side effects of the pill?
It all has me worried and scared.

[LabsRawesome]

Hi Honeybeesmom, I found this site. Scroll down the page a little. You will come to a map of the United States, check the key to see how many cases in your state. My state has 1 to 5 cases per clinic/per year. They were fed canned food/human food. None of my childhood dogs ever had heartworm, and they were outside dogs. My 2 dogs that I have now, are my first 2 on my own, since becoming an adult, and they are inside dogs. 🙂 http://www.heartwormsociety.org/pet-owner-resources/heartworm.html

[LabsRawesome]

Hi Honeybeesmom, have you ever looked at this natural worm/Heartworm preventative? http://www.nativeremedies.com/petalive/products/parasite-dr-cat-dog-digestive-system-health.html?img=368&kbid=11045&sub=petalive#ysmtac=kbid&ysmchn=affiliate&ysmcpn=kbid&ysmgrp=11045

[theBCnut]

From my years working at a local vet, I can tell you that the dogs that came in with heartworms were the backyard or hunting dogs that were rarely seen by the vet for anything. We have a high prevalence of heartworms down here and in 9 years we probably saw 3 house dogs with heartworms and hundreds of outdoor dogs with heartworms.