[pugmomsandy]

Here’s the previous conversation about beer heartworm treatment:

/forums/topic/heartworm-preventative-question/

[LisaLynn]

I have heard from many dog owners/breeders who swear by this method of heartworm prevention. I would appreciate anyone who has had personal experience using this method (not skeptics that do not believe in alternative veterinary medicine). This link is just informational. I’m sure there is more out there, but if you have had personal experience using it I would love to hear your feedback. Thank you!

http://www.saveonbrew.com/blog-article/guinness-for-your-dogs-health

[Lara]

Karma is on Nutrisca Lamb and Chickpea for about 4 weeks now. I wanted her off any kind of potato…white or sweet. That was the common ingredient in the previous dog foods. I have kept her on the Gentle Digest probiotic and the Claritin and Benadryl. And seems to do well on them.
I have added Dr Mercola’s Spirugreen and she does ok.
I truly believe not only am I dealing with food but environmental allergies as well
Karma definately does not like digestive enzymes. Vomits every time.
The vet even changed her heartworm med to Revolution from Heartguard

I had to get her off Rachel Ray because her stools were liquid and yellow….and she seemed constantly hungry
I was wondering about Zymox shampoo and the rinse? Wondering if I should give that a try….any thoughts?

I will be looking into that saliva test

Thankyou charlie and sombodysme. You both have helped me out so much and thanks for not making me feel like the only one dealing with this….sometimes I feel like my vet thinks I’m crazy because I want to try to fix the issue not put a “band-aid” on it!

[Anonymous]

hi
We are offering all natural holistic boarding for dogs and cats taking care of aour guests mental as well as physical needs.we have one more service which is Proudly boutique boarding our service is personal and flexible to your pets individual needs.

natural heartworm

[gmcbogger38]

That’s part of why I don’t want to put them on a pill. If you don’t skip any doses and the dog still gets heartworm, that would mean the product failed and you wasted your money with it. And the reason the product would fail would be because of the resistance to that particular medication. Such a tough decision, but I appreciate the comments. And I appreciate not being called an irresponsible owner for asking this. Other places I have been called that lol.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 3 months ago by gmcbogger38.

[NectarMom]

If your dogs are on Heart Guard and if your dogs get heart worms while on it and you haven’t skipped a monthly dose if your dog gets heart worm the Company will only pay for 1/2 of the heart worm treatment. While Tri heart will pay for 100% of the heart worm treatment if your dog gets heat worms on their product, Tri Heart is a lot cheaper than heart guard also. The vet I work at we have seen more cases of dogs getting heart worms while on Heart Guard.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 3 months ago by NectarMom.

[theBCnut]

Well I know that they’ve wormed their way into your heart. At least they don’t live in Mosquito Central.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Then Gertie and Mabel should have a very elevated risk – with their ears and wrinkles they have tons of surface area! lol

[theBCnut]

That is right in line with our experience. It was hunting hounds that would come up positive. Living outdoors, having a larger surface area for mosquitoes to bite, and short thin hair would make you more susceptible just because your exposure is so much more, I would think.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Per the studies done the only heart worm preventative found to be 100% effective was Advantage Multi – it was a small study though so my guess is that if it were larger Advantage Multi would have some failures as well (just a hunch). Most vets are observing equal numbers of failures with Interceptor/Sentinel, Heartguard and Revolution. The failures are mostly seen in large breed, outdoor dogs.

http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm/Veterinary+news/Leading-parasitologist-reveals-heartworm-preventiv/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/703785

http://www.yourpetsbestfriend.com/your_pets_best_friend/2008/04/heartworm-preve.html

[Colorado huntress]

Thanks! I used to live in New Orleans & 1 hr North of there (where Hurricane Katrina hit), so I can believe that the heart worms are immune (roaches were immune to bug spray, lol!).
I am very thankful that we don’t have Mosquitos – actually haven’t seen any around here in years, the gnats make up for it in the summer 🙁

[theBCnut]

Where I live Heartgard is known for not always working. And there are some areas around the Mississippi where it is know that the heartworms are immune.

[gmcbogger38]

I know of 1 dog who still got heartworms while taking heartgard. And the owners are anal about keeping him on it on a regular basis. They said heartgard was paying for the treatment, though. You can look on Dr. Karen Becker’s website Mercola Healthy Pets and she has a map of the United States and the risk of heartworms for each area color coded on the map. It tells you which area you live in when to start and stop giving the medicine.

[theBCnut]

I would give a final dose for the year 45 days after the weather has gotten too cold for mosquitoes.

[Colorado huntress]

So….ok, that makes sense. Do you suggest that I keep giving the Heartgard & for how long?

[theBCnut]

It has nothing to do with when you stop giving preventative. It can take 6 months after an infected mosquito bite for a dog to test positive, so when you get a new dog you want to test after 6 months to make sure it didn’t get heartworms before you got the dog.

[Colorado huntress]

Give Heartgard as well, but would like some advice here, please. I got my female Brit lab from Tenn in June – she lived outside in a run/pen there & was given heart worm preventative on a monthly basis. I had her tested in June & she was negative, but the vet there said to keep her on the meds & have her re-tested in 6 months. We have very few Mosquitos here, & only for about 2 months of the year, so….most people only give Heartgard during that time (the vets are ok w/ that here). Also, same situation with my little guy that I got from LA in July – he tested negative & I have him on Heartgard as well. My question I guess is this……is it possible that they could still test positive for heart worms if I stopped giving the preventative in December?? We usually have snow staying on the ground & temps going below 0 degrees -January we get a lot of -30+ temps. I haven’t done much research on the ‘cons’ of heart worm preventative, but it IS a chemical, & I don’t know anybody from here that gives it to their dogs except for maybe 2 months in early Summer. It has nothing to do with the cost of the meds, I bought enough for a year for each of them. So…anybody have any advice?

[InkedMarie]

Heartworm isn’t something I’m not willing to chance. Mine get Heartgard every 45 days, may til october

[pugmomsandy]

There are also heartworm nosodes.

http://vitalanimal.com/

http://www.naturalrearing.com/coda/n_heartworm.html

http://www.holisticvetclinic.net/pages/heartworm_treatment

[gmcbogger38]

Thanks!

[Hound Dog Mom]

I use Ivermectin based preventatives (just Ivermectin – no wormers) every 45 days during season (usually May – October).

[theBCnut]

I just read a study on ginger extract to treat heartworms, but they weren’t looking at it to prevent heartworms. I’ve never heard of beer as a preventive. I live in a area where heartworms are very prevalent and after working for a vet for many years and seeing how hard treatment is on dogs, I’m afraid to try alternative preventives. The only one I’ve read about that has any study behind it at all has to be given 3 times a day. Heartworm preventives is the one chemical my dogs are getting.

If I lived in an area where it wasn’t so common, I would probably risk it though.

[pugmomsandy]

Haven’t heard of the beer prevention method but I use essential oils for mosquito repellent.

[gmcbogger38]

I’m not sure if this is the proper place to post this question, so if it isn’t I apologize. What products do y’all use for heartworm “preventative” and does anybody use all natural stuff? I have read a couple articles online by people who swear up and down that Guinness Draught beer (the black label brewed in Dublin) has turned dogs from heartworm positive to heartworm negative and they said they will continue using it for their dogs. They claim the hops have something in them that will kill heartworms. The dosage is 1oz per 10lbs body weight. This is obviously not scientific evidence, but I was wondering if anybody else has heard about this and/or tried this. I really don’t want to use any chemicals for heartworms. I understand, though, using all natural remedies it is best to have my dogs tested twice per year instead of once per year, just in case. What are y’alls opinions?

[jamiek]

I happened across this thread while googling something and couldn’t help but registering just so I could reply. There are many well meaning but sadly uninformed thoughts here. I have a phd in animal nutrition and really encourage all of you to get your nutritional advise from your veterinarian not from a forum of people with opinions formed from the Internet. Dogs DO NOT “need” animal protein. There are several complete vegetarian diets on the market. Most dogs also do not “need” to eat a vegetarian diet. There are many dogs that have severe food allergies and their quality of life is greatly improved by a strict vegan diet. There are also MANY dogs whose lives are shortened by eating a diet too high in protein. It does not matter much whether that protein is from animals or plant based. A high protein diet is very hard on the kidneys and will eventually lead to premature renal disease. The trend of the pet food companies pushing a high meat diet is very scary. Especially for older pets. The argument that that is how our dogs ancestors ate is ridiculous. Their ancestors were not spayed or neuter, they were not on flea, tick or heartworm prevention, they were not vaccinated. There are reasons we don’t treat our pets as there ancestors lived. We love them, want to take the best care of them we can, and remember, their ancestors didn’t live very long. FYI, I’ve had dogs that have eaten foods with meat, 1 dog who eats vegan because of severe allergies, and 1 dog who ate vegetarian based on the recommendation of a veterinary neurologist for the treatment of a medical condition. They have all thrived. It’s not a question of meat or no meat for the average healthy dog. It’s a question of the correct balance of nutrients. Too much protein is just as bad as not enough. PLEASE consult your veterinarian or a veterinary nutritionist, not a random person with an uninformed opinion and an Internet education when it comes to the health of your pet.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I vaccinate my dogs as puppies (8 weeks, 12 weeks and 16 weeks) with the core vaccines. I’ll then get another booster for the core vaccines one year after the final series of puppy boosters. I do not vaccine again after this (aside from rabies every three years which is required by law). I never vaccinate for non-core vaccines such as lyme, bordetella, etc. It’s known that these core vaccines provide immunity much longer than a year and even much longer than the three year intervals that some vets are starting to recommend. Through challenge it has been proven that most of these core vaccines provide immunity for at least 5 to 7 years and it is believed that they may even provide lifetime immunity. Rather than re-vaccinating yearly (or even every three years) it’s much smarter to have a titer – a blood test which measures the dog’s immunity. If the titer shows that your dog is immune there’s no reason to re-vaccinate – re-vaccinating provides no benefit (or increased immunity) it only puts your dog at risk for the negative side affects that may be caused by vaccines. I would highly recommend checking out this series of videos in which Dr. Becker interviews Dr. Ronald Schultz. Dr. Schultz is an immunology specialist in the Department of Pathobiological Sciences at the School of Veterinary Science at the University of Wisconsin – Madison. http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/05/31/what-your-vet-didnt-tell-you-about-all-those-puppy-and-kitty-vaccines.aspx

I do not use any chemical flea or tick preventatives. In my opinion, when it comes to fleas and ticks the best defense is a strong immune system. I have a SNAP 4DX test done on my dogs every 6 months to test for tick transmitted diseases. I comb my dogs with a flea comb daily during flea/tick season and have never found any fleas or ticks (and they’re hounds that spend quite a bit of time outdoors). Since switching to a species-appropriate raw diet I haven’t had any parasite issues (internal or external). I do use some natural-oil based topicals and shampoos and give them an herbal flea and tick tincture from Earth Animal (formulated by Dr. Goldstein).

Concerning Frontline and which contains the active ingredient “fipronil”:

• Dr. Dobozy of the EPA’s Pesticide Division has found that the active ingredient (fipronil) in Frontline remains in a pet’s system with the potential for nervous system and thyroid toxicity. Tests on laboratory animals resulted in thyroid cancer and altered thyroid hormones, liver and kidney toxicity, reduced fertility and convulsions. Frontline’s web site creates the impression that the product stays in the oil glands of the skin. But Dr. Dobozy’s study showed that, in fact, it does enter the body and the organ systems.
• This investigation determined fipronil residues on gloves worn while petting dogs after Frontline application. Frontline contains 9.8% fipronil, which controls fleas and ticks on dogs for at least 30 days. Frontline (1.34 ml) was applied topically on adult household dogs and gloves worn for 5 min during pettingwere collected 24 hr and 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 w post-Frontline application for fipronil residue determinations using GC/MS. The highest concentration of fipronil (589.3 +/- 205.7ppm) was detected 24 h after Frontline application and was undetectable in the gloves collected at 5w. Repeated exposure to such contamination can pose human health risks. [“Human Exposure to Fipronil from Dogs Treated with Frontline” can be found on Pubmed]
• Journal of Pesticide Reform Factsheet: Fipronil:
1. In tests with laboratory animals, fipronil causes aggressive behavior, damaged kidneys, and “drastic alterations in thyroid function.” The fipronil containing product ‘Frontline’ caused changes in the levels of sex hormones.
2. The offspring of laboratory animals exposed to fipronil during pregnancy were smaller than those of unexposed mothers. They also took longer to mature sexually.
3. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency classifies fipronil as a carcinogen because exposure to fipronil caused benign and malignant thyroid tumors in lab animals.

Imidacloprid (active ingredient in Advantage) and Pyrethrins (active ingredient in Biospot) have been found to have similar negative effects.

Concerning heartworm prevention. I do use heartworm prevention, however I’m very conservative with it. My dogs get an ivermectin-based preventative every 45 days during hearworm season. The FDA approvals cite that Heartguard, Interceptor and Revolution provide protection beyond 30 days. I use preventatives that contain heartworm prevention only – I avoid the preventatives that also contain wormers, flea preventatives, etc. I’m in northern NY so I usually end up administering the first dose in early May and the last dose sometime in November. Starting the day after my dogs receive their preventative I give milk thistle daily for one week to help protect their liver from the damaging effects of the ivermectin. The SNAP 4DX test I have done every 6 months also tests for heartworms. Dr. Becker has an article about heartworm prevention here: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2010/08/03/why-havent-pet-owners-been-told-these-facts-about-heartworm.aspx . This website also has a wealth of information concerning heartworm prevention: http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjheartwormprevention.html .

[pacer1978]

Ok, I’ll check the site out.
What is your opinion on vaccinations and things like Frontline and Heartguard? I took my dogs off of that and only get them rabies shots since that is the law. I don’t ever board them and they are all inside dogs. We don’t live in the “country” so to speak and not near standing water, so not a lot of mosquitoes so don’t really feel the need for all of that. But, I get the “disapproving” looks when the vets mention that they need another heartworm test or some other vaccine. If we move out further into the country where there is tall grasses, I can understand and most likely will put them back on preventative medicine like Heartguard, but the research I did on it explained how hard it is for pets to actually contract it. The article made sense and Mattie was having bad skin reactions a few years back and was diagnosed with Canine Atopy or something like that. She was put on a very strong and very expensive ($100/mth) medicine. It just makes me wonder with all the chemicals in vaccines and topicals for fleas that it would have some side effects. Of course, something else could have caused it since at the time I wasn’t aware of what was considered “good” versus “bad” dog food nutrition. I always thought Iams, Pedigree, and Eukanuba to name a few were good dog foods. But, now I know that they are mostly fillers and are less than 4 stars.

[dog34747]

I have an 8 year old male, retired racing greyhound with a very sensitive stomach and allergies. He’s had severe ear infections, nasal congestion, compulsive licking and digestive problems. He is also hyper allergic to flea bites, with them even turning in to mini staph infections at each bite. Over the past 3 1/2 years I have tried nearly every brand on the market from Purina on up to Orijen. If it’s sold anywhere between the specialty boutique shops and PetsMart, I have probably tried it. I’ve tried grain-in, grain-free, corn-free, soy-free, gluten-free, chicken-free… etc. etc. I have tried chicken, turkey, fish, lamb, beef, bison, and I think one even had ostrich or something. Basically I’ve tried everything. I have even tried the high-end frozen raw diet food, he just simply won’t touch it. He does not appear to be allergic to chicken specifically, I’ve tried poultry based foods and foods with absolutely no poultry of any kind and the result is the same.

Every single grain-free food causes, horrendous breath, loose stool and severe gas. No amount of pumpkin, yogurt, supplement pro-biotics or pre-biotics seems to fix it, sometimes those relieve things for a day or two but never permanently. It seems directly linked to the percent of protein, above a certain point and these issues start. He seems ok around 22% but usually anything in that range is not grain-free.

The grain-in foods (and treats) increase his nasal congestion (like a kid sucking the snot in vs. blowing his nose, not the same as a reverse sneeze) and the obsessive licking, and they also exacerbates the ear infections. He has had the ear infections recurring, or perhaps even continually but low level, since I got him. He was on a grain-in food when I got him and I immediately switched to grain-free but the ear never fully cleared up even on grain-free. The ear is finally cleared up (for now) after lots of meds though I’m worried his diet will bring it back.

I have tried some raw foods and veggies but they seem to pass through him without even being digested at all.

Any kind of food with potato as a major ingredient seems to act as an immediate diuretic, causing him to be constantly thirsty, panting and drinking and therefore needing to go out 7+ per day every few hours and even having accidents in the house which otherwise he has never had before. This includes all those limited ingredient foods because they all seems to be potato based.

The only time I have had any luck with a food is with Iams Sensitive Naturals Ocean Fish. Yes, I know it doesn’t rank highly and many people here are against it, but it was literally the only food that stopped the breath/stool/gas problems in their tracks, nearly overnight. I’ve heard others say they had similar good luck with Iams and attribute it to the beet pulp, not sure if that’s really true but I can say it worked for my dog. He went about eating it with no digestive issues for 9 months or so but the silent ear infection got worse and worse and the nasal issues got worse. Then we tried Eukanuba Wild Salmon/Rice and the ear/nasal continued to get worse and the licking started. The only benefit to the Eukanuba was his coat was suddenly full, fluffy and soft and the traditional greyhound bald spots were even filling in. I was bothered by the increase in allergies so I’ve gone back to looking for something else.

So I’ve since re-tried several other grain-free foods and the Biljac Sensitive formula, all produce the same old problems. Re-tried a limited potato food, same problem.

I’d like to note he has been tested repeatedly for worms, giardia, heartworms, etc. and all negative. He has had bloodwork taken regularly and it is all absolutely perfect, including thyroid. His teeth have been cleaned by the vet recently and are good. He has absolutely no medical issues outside of the allergies and stomach sensitivities. Also, several vets and others suggested giving him claritan or benedryl to relieve the nasal and skin related reactions but it seems to do nothing for him.

I’m sorry this post is so long, thanks for reading all of it, I was trying to give the full background so folks know what I’ve already tried on this great food adventure. I’m looking for any suggestions, advice, testimonials, whatever on food and treats. I’m willing to try any food to get him to be comfortable, as long as it doesn’t require a second mortgage to pay for it. Thanks in advance!

[mah4angel]

AH I always do this, I keep calling worms heartworms and not clarifying that I mean all worms. He tested negative for heartworms AND intestinal parasites when they gave him the wormer. I understand to a certain extent what their thought process is but it’s just really hard for me to believe that all of that is necessary.

I will continue to go to Banfield for now because there are certainly things that they provide through their plan that are expensive pretty much everywhere else (any routine testing; ear swabs, blood tests, urine tests, stool tests, etc., dental cleaning, the comprehensive exam, etc.) all for $39.99/month, which is not *bad*. But I am looking into other options for Louie for the future.

[theBCnut]

I guess I wonder what kind of vet school graduate would want to work in what is essentially a chain store. The only answer I can come up with is; the ones that can’t get a job elsewhere.

The thing about giving you more wormers, I totally understand. Testing negative for heartworms doesn’t have anything to do with intestinal worms, which is what they gave you wormer for. A lot of vets will give wormer preventively for very young pups, because it doesn’t take very many worms to become a big problem for such a small animal. The wormers in the Quadriguard may be dosed to prevent reinfection, but not dosed to wipe out an active infection and they may need to be repeated at a different interval than once monthly.

$400 for a neuter is a bit much to pay for convinience, which is what you are paying extra for on everything else.

[Shawna]

Hi Lagotto,

We noticed (at the breeders) that she had excessive drinking and urination, as compared to her 5 siblings, when she was about 6 weeks old. She came to live with me when she was 9 weeks old. At about 4 weeks old she started failing to thrive — because she had a collapsing trachea and couldn’t get enough milk from her mommy. So the breeder put her on raw goat milk and egg whites, syringe fed every 2 to 4 hours, til she could eat on her own. She was weaned onto raw food — mainly hamburger, eggs, raw milk etc.

When she came to me I was making a home made raw diet for my current dogs and she went on that same diet. At her vet visit I told her holistic vet she urinated/drank a lot but her vet poo poo’d my concern and said puppies drink and therefore urinate more. She has bright eyes, she’s very smart, good coat quality etc. She’s a healthy puppy… In looking back I’m actually thankful that happened. Audrey continued on the homemade raw diet til her one year checkup where her bloodwork showed high bun and creatinine. I started tweaking her diet and would take her in every three months for additional bloodwork to see what the tweaking was doing. Turns out, the diet I had been feeding her all along was the best for her with one exception. To the diet I added a “prebiotic” and probiotics to help lower her BUN. Works like a charm..

Audrey continued on the homemade diet for several years but then I got too busy to keep up with homemade exclusively so I started incorporating commercial raw diets — Bravo as an example. Became busier yet and moved exclusively to commercial raw — Bravo, Darwins, Answers (recently started) and premixes like The Honest Kitchen Preference and Steve’s Premix with raw meats.. Audrey turned 7 years old the end of June and is still going strong. I have NOT lowered her protein. I have not lowered her phosphorus or made any other changes than adding prebiotic/probiotic and supplements. I use Garden of Life’s Primal Defense probiotic and Fiber35’s Sprinkle Fiber as the prebiotic. A really good prebiotic, made specifically for dogs, can be found on Dr. Mercola’s website under the “Pets” link and then under “Products”.

I would NOT regularly feed her kibble if I was paid to do so. In my opinion, kibble will cause a much earlier death in a kidney disease dog.. Kibble is a POOR QUALITY food for kd dogs/cats—even the best kibbles on the market… At the very least, feed a canned diet. If you can, feed raw or lightly cooked. I also don’t feed Audrey any grains. IF you are going to feed grains it needs to be either sushi rice (aka glutinous rice) or cream of wheat (or farina). These two grains are low phosphorus. All other grains have higher phosphorus and don’t add anything to the diet that can’t be found in a more species appropriate food.

You also want to feed higher fat foods — ditch the lean ground beef.. Feed the highest fat foods you can get (unless she is showing signs of pancreatitis). Fat adds calories without phosphorus—adding organic coconut oil is a good idea too. Protein is NOT damaging to the kidneys and only needs to be reduced to prevent symptoms of uremia in the later stages of the disease — such as vomiting or depression. Audrey has NEVER to date ate low protein.

Let her have ALL the water she wants. Audrey used to sleep in the water bowl when it was empty — she was that obsessed with water and, I’m guessing, desperately trying to tell me she needed some. She started this, sleeping in water dish, at the breeders. I kept potty pads ALL over the house for her. I was lucky in that she used them. During the night I keep her in a 4 foot by 4 foot enclosure we made (for our foster puppies). It was made out of wood and plastic chicken wire. I had her water bowl, her kennel, a blanket outside the kennel and a potty pad with LOTS of newspapers under it — she would fill a potty pad to the point of leaking during the night. As she got older she was able to hold it. Since about three months of age she has slept with me in my bed at nights.

Darwins now has a kidney diet.. I haven’t seen it yet but I do think it is worth checking out. Urban Wolf has a premix designed for kd dogs that can be added to raw or home cooked meats. And I think Grandma Lucy’s has a lower phosphorus premix that is also suitable for dogs needing their phos lowered..

Also consider adding a whole food B and C vitamin to the diet. These two vitamins are “water soluble” and because of the excessive urination can become depleted if not supplemented. I use Standard Process Cataplex B and C. I also give Audrey a whole food multi as a precaution. I use Standard Process Catalyn. Standard Process also makes a whole food supplement specifically for dogs with kidney disease. It’s called Canine Renal Support — I HIGHLY recommend using it. I also give liver support also by Standard Process — Canine Hepatic Support. The liver can become overstressed in a kd dog.

I HIGHLY recommend only using reverse osmosis or distilled along with a mineral water like Evian. Mineral waters (only those lower in sodium) have shown some positive benefits to kidney patients.

Also try to eliminate as many chemical toxins from your house as possible. I was already living in a relatively toxin free environment but I had to eliminate my Swiffer mop, candles ets. These have chemicals in them that the kidneys have to filter — putting an extra strain on them OR adding to the blood poisoning when the kidneys can’t filter as well. DO NOT use flea/tick or heartworm meds on her. And DO NOT vaccinate her. Audrey has only had one set of shots (given by the breeder before I got her) and has NEVER had a rabies shot. She was diagnosed before getting the shot and I was able to get a lifelong exemption for her in my state.

As mentioned, Audrey turned 7 last month and is not on any medications (no phosphorus binders, no sub-q fluids etc) just the supplements.

I don’t use it but I know others that have had positive results with the herbal tinctures from Five Leaf Pharmacy. http://caninekidneyhealth.com/ I would NOT follow their diet though… 🙂 http://caninekidneyhealth.com/

I would also highly recommend reading the material on Mary Straus’ dog aware website. This is the site where I got most of my knowledge / as well as courage to continue feeding Audrey a high protein raw diet. She has some EXCELLENT info on the site — when to feed low protein, when to lower phosphorus and how much (phosphorus is an essential mineral – lowering it too much too early can have unintended consequences), which foods are lower in phosphorus etc. http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidney.html

Your puppy can still have a fantastic quality of life.. Learn as much as you can, stay positive and enjoy her fully!!!!!

If you ever want to chat offsite, I can be reached at shawnadfaemail @ yahoo. com (take out the spaces–they are included here to prevent robot spammers from sending me junk mail).. 🙂

[theBCnut]

Did you read the instructions on the natural heartworm preventions? I checked them out a few months ago and there was some reason that I decided they wouldn’t work for me.

[mah4angel]

Hello all!

I’ll admit to being woefully ignorant and making bad and uniformed decisions for my Louie plenty of times (i.e. thinking that raw would be bad for him, thinking that kibble is better for cleaning teeth, etc.), but I’m afraid that choosing Banfield and their Optimum Wellness Plan might have been the worst decision yet…

I just feel that they make up for the savings in office visits, etc. by hiking up the prices for every single other thing NOT covered on the plan. For instance, I’ve been wanting to get Louie neutered. It would cost me about $400 at Banfield to get him neutered. OUCH. They’re also more expensive for typical grooming. A nail grind costs about $5 more at Banfield than at the ADJOINING Pet Smart Grooming salon, same with anal gland expression, etc.

I had Louie on a HW preventative from another vet (Quadriguard) which they had never heard of. Fine, that is 100% a-okay. There are so many HW pills out there, I’m sure, and I’m sure there’s just no way that you’d know the names and properties of every single one of them. BUT they clearly never looked it up or asked me to take it in so they could see what it was/what it covered. There are wormers in Quadriguard already but they kept having me give him wormers (after him testing negative for heartworms). They also kept asking me if I wanted to put him on a HW preventative even though I’d told every single one of the vet techs and both of the vets that I already have him protected.

I’ve read a lot recently about how people find Banfield as a corporation to be sub-par as far as veterinary work is concerned and that they’re quite money-grubbing and a total rip-off. I’m starting to see a little bit of this in them but I DO like my vet and Louie seems to really like her. She’s very kind, approachable, and seems to have her heart in the right place. I don’t know, though, that she’s technically great at her job, purely from a medical standpoint. I really don’t know that I know how to tell, though… she does seem to be more than willing and ready to hand out medications (free or not) for Louie and I don’t know that I like that.

Do any of you have good or bad experiences with Banfield? I just can’t help but notice that reviews by their customers are simply overwhelmingly bad. I don’t know, maybe I’m just being paranoid and seeing things that aren’t there because of the negativity from others.

I’d love to hear your feedback! I’m trying to find a holistic vet, but it’s proving to be kind of a pain in the butt (my dog gets incredibly carsick so commuting to the vet is a hard one-whereas PetSmart is within walking distance from my house). Thanks guys!

[mah4angel]

Thanks! I’ve actually comprised an all-natural herbal prevention plan with Only Natural Pet products. So, no more chemical heartworm prevention for Louie ^_^

I did not know that milk thistle has properties that would help with the cleansing of the liver! We’re going to have him re-tested for the liver enzymes soon. The vet said that the elevation was so small that it most likely is less than nothing to worry about, and that when she re-tests they should be back to normal.
I’m pretty much 99.9% sure that I know what happened, though. The HW pills we’ve been using (Quadriguard) was from the previous vet that saw him, and the new vet had never heard of it. The new vet didn’t know that the Quadriguard had wormers already so she would give him additional wormers every month (which is one of the things I pointed out early on because I found it strange that she was giving him wormers even though he tested negative for heartworms).
I kind of think she didn’t believe me when I said we had him on something. Every time we go to the vet, the computer system tells the vet tech to ask if we wanted to put him on heartworm prevention because “it says he’s not covered” even though we’ve told them over and over and over again that we have him on Quadriguard. I’m kind of done with Banfield. I want to find a local Holistic vet, but all of them are quite a drive and Louie gets DEATHLY carsick. Also, the two holistic vets within half an hour of here have pretty awful ratings on Yelp 🙁

I’m actually finalizing my purchase from Only Natural Pet. I’m getting a ton of stuff. Two different kind of prevention (the HW Protect Herbal Formula and the Para-Gone), the Herbal Defense Oil Blend (to prevent bugs from biting in the first place), and Cranberry Wellness for his UT issues (apparently he has crystals in his urine that make him more likely to have bladder/kidney stones and UTI’s). I currently have him on FirstShield for fleas and ticks but I want to move away from chemical flea and tick prevention as well.

I’d really love to see how his liver and the rest of his body will react to the lack of chemicals! I’m spending so much money to do this whole chemical cleanse but it’s SO worth it!

[theBCnut]

Sorry Marie

I probably didn’t word it well anyway. I was trying to do 4 different things at once and I am only ever good for one at a time. I was trying to explain to you that I don’t think ProHeart is a bigger dose of poison even though it works for six months. It just kills baby heartworms at a later stage of developement than the monthly preventions. However, due to the drug that they use for it, I think there is more potential for bad reactions and complications. So I, also, wouldn’t use it.

[theBCnut]

I don’t think you can assume you use a bigger dose of Proheart. It is a different chemical and kills a later stage of heartworm microfilaria. But I do believe it has more side effects and negatives just because of what it is.

[InkedMarie]

I would never use ProHeart. First, they had a recall, was off the market or a long time. Second, why do you want to put that much chemical in your dogs system, all at once? Think about it. Monthly heartworm prevention is bad enough but you can go every 45 days so its not so bad. ProHeart is a big dose of chemicals, all at once.

[mah4angel]

OH totally forgot! I’m thinking of using ProHeart 6 for the next six months for my Louie. It’s a heartworm preventative that’s injected and protection lasts for six months. Not sure if this is a good alternative to a monthly/six-week pill?

[pugmomsandy]

There are heartworm “nosodes” available and other herbal heartworm prevention http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Only-Natural-Pet-HW-Protect-Herbal-Formula/999068.aspx

Dr Will Falconer in Houston TX sells nosodes. His website is VitalAnimal.com

And there are also herbal parasite products as well. There are some at onlynaturalpet for you to look at too under “shop by condition” then “parasites”.

I use Halo Herbal Dip and Mercola Natural Defense Spray for mosquitoes and fleas.

[theBCnut]

I think you are mixing a few different posts together. There isn’t an alternative heartworm prevention like that at all. DE was mentioned as a possible for intestinal parasites. It could come in a big jar and everyone was talking about what else it is good for i.e. hair and nails.

I think the holistic approach is more towards using natural mosquito repelling sprays and keeping your dog in during bad mosquito times. And making sure his immune system is as healthy as possible.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Sorry I don’t remember the discussion and it wasn’t me 🙁 I use valuheart every 45 days during heartworm season.

[mah4angel]

I’m just trying to look for a more holistic alternative to the heartworm preventative that my dog is currently on (which is like, a chemical stew).

[mah4angel]

I have no idea ahhhh. It may have been more of an immune booster or something. I just remember it came in a huge jar, I BELIVE in powder form and that it was a good alternative to heartworm preventatives and that it’s commonly used in farm animals o_O

[theBCnut]

I answered you on the Brothers site, but basically I said “Don’t panic. You have until 45 days after a mosquito bite to administer heartworm prevention.”

[pugmomsandy]

I give it 3 or 4 times a week all year. But if you don’t want to do it all the time, I’d definitely recc’ at least for a week after heartworm/flea/tick meds. Some folks give milk thistle for a week after heartworm meds to detox the liver. I give supplements all the time because we live in a polluted world! Just going on walks can be somewhat toxic! Who knows what’s in other people’s yards or the dog park. Even eating kibble can be taxing on the body and certain body organs.

Her history of being on many abx suggests she needs some sort of booster as abx kill off the good and bad organisms in the gut where the immune system is. Do you give probiotics regularly? Those help seed the gut with beneficial organisms and boost the immune system.

Demodex can take a long to recover from too. Can take months even with negative scrapes. My pup was a funny looking alien for almost a year. Had demodex, hair came back, demodex again, finally got over it. This was without any kind of booster since I didn’t know about them back then.

Since giving them boosters they don’t get sick even when my fosters come in with kennel cough or other skin infection and even sarcoptic mange. And they do mingle together when it’s p/p time.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 6 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[pugmomsandy]

Those sound good. I also give astaxanthin and a supplement with Transfer Factor (currently Immunel with Transfer Factor from Swansonvitamins.com).

You also don’t want to give her or at least space them out for longer intervals (45 days) heartworm prevention and flea/tick meds because those are pesticides and add to her toxic load. Also don’t walk her in or let her play in areas that have been sprayed with pesticides. Also use a non toxic shampoo. I think good examples are Earthbath and Green Bulldog and I’m sure there are several more.

[InkedMarie]

Can someone tell me what the recommended dosage for Milk Thistle is (given after heartworm preventive, vaccs etc). I have 175mg capsules.

thank you!

[Mylo]

http://www.congoraw.com/products.html
Complete Dinners consisting of Meat, Bone, Organ and a Vegetable/Fruit Blend which is comprised of organic celery, blueberries, romaine lettuce, radicchio, banana and parsley.

He doesn’t stay outside a lot and he’s brushed everyday, the problems are in his inner back legs, not much hair there, it’s very fine.
I wonder if adding fish oil will help.
He’s getting heartworm/flea pills.

thanks for your comments, appreciate them

[Melissaandcrew]

Your heartworm tab has three dewormers in it already.

[mah4angel]

Okay! Makes sense, he’s on heartworm prevention (Quadriguard, which no one at the vet’s office has heard of lol we got it from the previous vet), and flea and tick prevention, And, when my fiancee and I got home yesterday his two little nieces told us that they had been “feeding” him but could not tell me what they were feeding him… Sigh. AND he’s taken a dewormer once in the past two months, I believe. We’re supposed to give him another one even though there were apparently no worms detected in his fecal testing. I trust my vet, but it doesn’t make sense to me.