Search Results for 'feeding large and giant breed puppies'

Dog Food Advisor Forums Search Search Results for 'feeding large and giant breed puppies'

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  • #22288
    twinelm
    Participant

    I am contemplating co owning a very large breed show puppy 130# at maturity with a breeder who happens to work for a very large commercial dog food company. She says all of the other puppies who went to show homes also are feeding that company’s Large Breed Puppy formula (except one who feeds raw) which happens to have a 2.5 star rating here. I feed my rescues 4-Health grain free and have fed Nature’s Variety Instinct prior to that so I have for years had a “thing” for proper nutrition and LOVE LOVE LOVE this website. I am horrified at the thought of feeding that food to the pup for the next year or 18 months. Can you help me figure out what to feed? And maybe convince her it will be okay? Puppy is 3 months old now. Thanks,

    #22279

    Okay hound dog mom. Thank you for your response. I was talking to dr Tim and he said it was okay for puppies and it had a pretty low calcium %. I just got in the mail today wellness core puppy formula and I will follow up in a couple weeks to say how duke responds to the food. One question I have is that he has been kind of itchy lately even though he has no flees or ticks; I also saw some scratch marks under his arm from him scratching himself, can the dryness of his skin be because of the chicken based nutro that I have been feeding him?

    #21546
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Hi lemdem –

    Glad you found this thread helpful 🙂

    Nutro Max LBP and Whole Earth Farms are both too high in calcium for a LBP. I have no idea about the Purina/Pedigree products, I’ve never looked into them as they’re not something I’d ever recommend. I would assume that a “large breed puppy” formula manufactured by Purina would have appropriate calcium levels though, so if someone wanted to feed a cheap brand I’d probably (reluctantly)recommend going with a Purina LBP formula. However, I honestly doubt that anyone considering feeding their pup something such as Beneful or Pedigree would have any concern for proper growth and prevention of developmental orthopedic disease. I wouldn’t ever recommend feeding an adult food to a puppy – an “all life stages” formula is fine, but not a formula labeled for “maintenance” (check the AAFCO statement on the bag because some “adult” foods are actually approved for all life stages” – meaning that they’re essentially a puppy formula). Maintenance foods are generally too low in protein and fat for a puppy (and also – imo – for adult dogs) and can be too low in certain vitamins and minerals for a growing dog. Due to the lower calorie content found in most adult formulas (in comparison to puppy or all life stages formulas), a pup may actually end up consuming more calcium per calorie even if the calcium percentage by weight is lower. Very young puppies could also have difficulty meeting their energy needs on a low calorie adult formula.

    #21408
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Hi londoncalling1996 –

    That’s too bad your store didn’t carry any of the foods. 🙁 If you’re not opposed to online ordering there are many sites that sell a wider variety of foods than you could find in a store and they also typically have lower prices – most also offer free shipping with no weight limit when you spend a certain amount of money (usually orders over $49). I’d recommend checking out wag.com, chewy.com, petflow.com and naturalk9supplies.com. Also the new lists should give you many additional options to choose from.

    I definitely feel that, if it’s financially feasible, non-dry foods should be fed as a sole diet or at least in addition to kibble. Dry food is actually the worst thing to feed a dog – however to to budget and time constraints it, understandably, comprises the bulk of most dog’s diets. I urge you to check out this article Dr. Marty Goldstein (one of my all time favorite veterinarians) posted on his blog, it ranks the different types of food from best to worst: drmarty.com/what-should-i-feed-my-pet-for-best-health/

    If you add wet food you should count account for this in her daily food intake – just monitor her weight and if she’s gaining too much start feeding a little less. One of my all time favorite wet food toppers (especially for large breed puppies) is Tripett. I like Tripett for several reasons: 1) high protein/moderate fat/low carbohydrate (ideal); 2) it has a balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio but very low amounts of each, so it can effectively be used to lower the calcium to phosphorus ratio in any food fed to a large breed puppy without the risk of throwing off the balance and 3) dogs go absolutely nuts for it (people hate it – if you feed it you’ll see why – but they love it). The only thing I want to note with Tripett is that it’s not a complete and balanced food (it’s just canned green tripe) so if you do feed it make sure it doesn’t exceed 20% of the meal or you could throw off the nutritional balance. Some other more balanced canned foods that I like that could account for over 20% of the meal are: ZiwiPeak, Addiction, Nature’s Logic, Nature’s Variety Instinct and Merrick. Dr. Mike has a great compilation of high quality canned foods over on the review site as well. If you’re looking for a quality yet budget friendly canned food (canned food can be quite pricey, especially when feeding a large breed puppy) I’d recommend checking out 4Health (available at Tractor Supply, $0.99 per can), Pure Balance (available at Walmart, $1 per can), Kirkland Cuts in Gravy (available at Costco, $0.79 per can), Whole Earth Farms (available at many online retailers about $1.50 per can) – these foods are all 4 – 5 star quality. Some other toppers you could use are dehdyrated foods (i.e. The Honest Kitchen, Grandma Lucy’s, etc.) – these foods are about the same consistency as a stew type canned food when rehydrated, a balanced frozen or freeze-dried commercial raw food (freeze-dried rehydrates to canned food consistency) or fresh toppers such as sardines, eggs, plain yogurt or left over lean meat or steam veggies from your dinner.

    Digestive aids aren’t necessary, but many feel they’re beneficial. Many of the regulars here supplement with probiotics and enzymes. I don’t supplement with either because my dogs eat a raw diet (naturally occurring enzymes) and consume raw green tripe (rich in enzymes and probiotics) and kefir (rich in probiotics) on a regular basis. If feeding cooked food only (like kibble and canned) I do feel that enzymes and probiotics can provide benefit.

    #21406
    londoncalling1996
    Participant

    Hi Hound Dog Mom, I REALLY appreciate all you research and hard work compiling all the information on what to feed Large and Giant Breed Puppies, in our case, our 11 week old Bernese Mtn Dog. I printed your recommendations and took the list to our local pet and feed store. I was leaning to Fromm because it’s one of the lowest in calcium. The Fromm website listed our local pet and feed store as carrying two of their lines. Not only do they not carry Fromm, they don’t carry any of the foods on your list except Canine Caviar, which you said in a recent post that you are taking off the list. I can see this isn’t going to be so straight forward! I did call a pet store about 20 miles away and they carry Fromm, so I will go tomorrow and pick some up for LUX. Can you please tell me if feeding her just the dry food is good for her? Or should I add some protein? What about the green tripe? What about digestive aids? Should I add of of those to her diet? I do put a little wet food into the end of her kong and freeze it to give her a treat when I put her in her crate at bedtime. Should I count that as food and subtract some kibble in one of her daytime meals? Also, what do you recommend as a wet food to use in the kong and/or as a topper occasionally on her kibble? I want to do the best I can for her in her life and especially in the coming formative months! Thanks so much!!!! Cheers, Jules

    #21389
    DellUSN
    Participant

    Hello, Hound Dog Mom.

    I’ve been searching around this site for a little while now and I’ve noticed your activity and knowledge about pet foods. I signed up so that I could attempt to contact you directly through private message, but I guess that’s not possible here. Either way, I’ve been reading a lot of your advice on here and I had a couple questions for you. I have a 4 month old Chocolate Lab (40 pounds) named Rooster who I just got a couple weeks ago. Having studied to become an Registered Vet Tech before I joined The Navy, I understood that importance of nutrition for large breed puppies, or any breed of puppy for that matter. After some research I decided to go with a 4 pound bag of Wellness CORE Puppy Formula. His transition over to the food went very smoothly and he’s been devouring it, so I bought him a 26 pound bag. I currently feed him 4 cups a day dry kibble (2 AM, 2 PM) and he’s doing well on the schedule. I read a post that you made about rotating dog’s brand of food and source of protein. I was curious if this was something that should be implemented at young age and some other brands you recommended for my pup. Also, I was very worried about my dog and people food because I’ve seen so many people just go nuts feeding there dogs junk food. He has not been exposed to any people food yet, but I’d like to get him on some raw meats and bones if possible. At what age would he be ready for that and what sorts of things would you recommend for him in that field? I really anticipate your reply and appreciate any input you offer. Thank you!

    #21063
    theBCnut
    Member

    Go back to the first page of this thread and read. It explains the REAL issues with feeding large breed puppies. In about the 3rd post, Hound Dog Mom has a google doc that lists good foods that have appropriate calcium levels for LBPs. Pick a few of those foods and rotate between them.

    #19816
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Hi acs379 –

    Nope, there’s nothing specific about excess fat that will cause developmental issues. Many veterinarians and breeders just tend to recommend lower fat foods because they generally have a lower calorie count per cup and they feel that it will be less likely that the dog will consume too many calories. However, as long as portion sizes are controlled it doesn’t pose an issue. My experience with my hounds has actually been that I have difficulty keeping weight on them – they tend to be on the thin side if anything, so for me it’s been really important to use more calorie-dense foods.

    First off I would like to say that it is wonderful that your breeder is recommending the inclusion of fresh foods. Many breeders and veterinarians don’t recognize the importance of fresh foods. Fresh meat, plain yogurt and eggs are wonderful additions to dry kibble – they boost the protein levels and the species appropriateness. Adding eggs and boneless meat will also help to reduce the calcium to phosphorus ratio of the food as they’re high in phosphorus but low in calcium. Just be sure to keep the unbalanced extras to approximately 20% or less of the meal or you could skew the calcium to phosphorus ratio too much and potentially throw off the balance of the other nutrients in the food. Canned foods and dehydrated foods make great toppers too, if feeding a balanced canned or dehydrated food with appropriate calcium levels you can add as much as you want, if feeding a food with higher calcium levels or an unbalanced canned topper follow the 20% rule. Tripe makes an excellent topper – especially for large and giant breed puppies, the reason being that tripe has has a naturally balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio (1:1) but very low concentrations of both minerals (only about 0.3% if I recall correctly). So feeding tripe will dilute the overall calcium levels without the risk of throwing of the c:p ratio. When Gertie was a pup she ate THK and I generally fed her 4 C. THK + 1 can Tripett (canned green tripe) daily (and some fresh additions like eggs, plain yogurt and tinned sardines a few times a week). Mabel started right off on raw and ate raw green tripe as about 25% of her diet for the first 6 months to keep her calcium levels low. Another benefit to tripe (if you can get it raw) is that it’s loaded with probiotics and digestive enzymes.

    I generally recommend not supplementing with vitamins (unless per veterinarian recommendation) for those feeding a balanced commercial food, however vitamin c and vitamin b are water soluble vitamins so they are not harmful in excess, if you wanted to add them it shouldn’t cause any problems. The problems arise with certain minerals and fat soluble vitamins as these can be harmful when consumed in excess. Because balanced commercial foods already contain vitamins and minerals adding additional vitamins (fat soluble) and certain minerals could potentially result in toxicity. I would definitely not supplement with vitamin d or calcium – vitamin d is a fat soluble vitamin and adding calcium would likely throw off the calcium to phosphorus ratio and high levels of calcium are what need to be avoided for large and giant breed puppies.

    Now onto discussing the Science Diet Adult Maintenance recommendation. I see many breeders recommend putting large breed puppies directly onto an adult maintenance food and this is extremely poor advice (imo) and often based on faulty logic. The reason breeders typically recommend adult foods is because adult foods tend to be lower in fat and calories than puppy foods – from the previous discussion we know that this isn’t an issue as long as portions are controlled. Feeding a puppy a food designated for adult maintenance puts the puppy at risk of not getting enough fat, protein or certain vitamins and minerals. SD is extremely low in protein – to be honest I wouldn’t even feel comfortable feeding a food that low in protein to an adult dog, let alone a growing puppy. I don’t ever recommend feeding foods with less than 30% protein (for adults or puppies) and the SD only has 24.5% protein. Also, if you go to SD’s website and read the product description for the adult maintenance food you’ll notice they state “Not recommended for puppies, pregnant or lactating dogs” – this is because dogs in their growth phase or in the stressful phase of pregnancy or lactation need high levels of protein, higher levels of fat and higher levels of certain vitamins and minerals. I personally wouldn’t ever feed or recommend any Science Diet Products. I would recommend checking out some 4 or 5 star foods with appropriate calcium levels. It’s also better if you rotate foods, don’t stick with just one – dogs need variety. I’d say at a bare minimum have three go to brands (preferably made by different companies and with different protein sources) and rotate through them. Rotational feeding has benefits including fostering a diverse population of gut flora, mitigating the short comings of feeding any one single food (no food is perfect) and providing alternatives in the event of a recall or formula change.

    • This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.
    #19773
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Hi acs379 –

    This is a wonderful point to bring up! I’ll try to explain it as best I can.

    The two main nutritional risks to large breed puppies are excess calcium consumption (or an unbalanced calcium to phosphorus ratio) and excess energy consumption (too many calories leading to rapid weight gain).

    The reason most formulas targeted towards large breed puppies and recommended for large breed puppies tend to be lower in fat has to do with the excess energy consumption risk factor. Protein and carbohydrates both have approximately 4 kcal. per gram while fat has over twice this much at about 9 kcal. per gram. So as you can see, fat is much more calorically dense than protein or carbohydrates and, as a result, foods that are higher in fat tend to be more calorically-dense as well. It is easier for a puppy (or any dog) to consume too much energy (calories) when eating a more calorically-dense food and this would ultimately result in undesired weight gain and, as we know, undesired weight gain in large and giant breed puppies can contribute to the development of orthopedic disease. This is why when feeding a more calorically-dense, or as some would say “rich”, food it is necessary to strictly control portions.

    As you can see fat – per se – is not a risk factor for developmental orthopedic disease, excess calories are. It’s very possible to feed a puppy (or any dog) a food that is higher and fat and not have the dog gain unwanted pounds – this is done through portion control. So if, for example, a puppy is eating a food with 20% fat that has 500 kcal. per cup the puppy will obviously need less of this food (to compensate for the high caloric-density) than of a food with 12% fat and 350 kcal. per cup.

    All of my puppies have eaten higher fat foods. Gertie ate a combination of The Honest Kitchen and grain-free canned foods until she was 8 months old with fat levels in excess of 20%. Mabel ate a homemade raw diet from the time she came home at 8 weeks with fat levels in the 30% – 40% range. I keep track of the calories my dogs are consuming, so my pups are fed the amount of calories that keeps them in optimal body condition. This means that when eating fattier more calorie-dense meals they get a smaller portion than when they’re eating leaner less calorie-dense meals.

    In summary, it’s not the fat that contributes to developmental orthopedic disease it’s the excess calories that fat provides. As long as portion sizes are monitored and the pup isn’t allowed to gain weight too quickly fat levels won’t pose an issue.

    I hope that helps clear things up!

    • This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.
    #19588
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Hi EHubbman –

    Yes the calcium to phosphorus ratio is very important for all dogs and should be no less than 1:1 and no more than 2:1, with around 1.2:1 being considered ideal. However when it comes to large and giant breed puppies, the overall amount of calcium consumed is still very important. Even if a food had an appropriate ratio but the calcium levels were very high – say 2.2% calcium and 2% phosphorus (1.1:1) – I wouldn’t feel comfortable feeding the food to a large or giant breed puppy. All three of my dogs eat a raw diet and my most recent pup (now 11 months old) was weaned onto raw at 8 weeks old. To keep the calcium levels controlled while still keeping the calcium to phosphorus ratio balanced, fed her green tripe for around 25% of her diet. Green tripe has a naturally balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio (roughly 1:1) but has very low levels of each mineral (only about 0.3%).

    #19506
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Hi Betsy –

    I do enjoy the great dane lady’s website and think there is some good information on there, however I don’t agree with her feeding advice for puppies. If her aversion to grain-free and raw foods for large breed puppies was based on some sort of factual research or organized feeding trial I would have more respect for it, but it seems to me it’s solely based on the fact that she’s never tried feeding those foods to her puppies?? I’ve had great lucking feeding high protein grain-free foods to my bloodhound puppies, I’ve just kept calcium levels controlled for the first 8 months.

    #19505
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Hi arlenem –

    Feeding a food with appropriate calcium levels is most crucial during the first 8 months or so. When puppies are young they can’t regulate their calcium absorption which is why high levels of calcium during the rapid growth phase can cause developmental orthopedic disease in large and giant breed puppies. Around 6 – 8 months puppies gain the ability to regulate calcium absorption. Once a large breed puppy is an adult their nutritional needs are no different than any other dog. I actually would avoid most “large breed adult” foods as they tend to be way too low in protein and loaded with fillers.

    #19493
    DogFoodie
    Member

    I would definitely be curious to see what grain inclusive foods you’d recommend, HDM. I still remember being surprised that the Great Dane Lady was strongly opposed to grain free foods for large breed puppies until about 80% of their adult size, due to lack of feeding trials.

    Here’s a quote I took from her site:

    “I do not recommend as a complete diet for your puppy, any grain free or raw diets, regardless of brand, for large breed growth. Not until they are 8-10 months old or 3/4 of their normal size, just to be on the safe side. No feed trials have been done on large/giant breeds on the grain free or raw diets to date, so I will not recommend them.

    We KNOW we can raise them on a quality holistic kibble with a 10% raw component, if you wish, and have no problems, but not a totally raw or grain free diet, please!!”

    #19472
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hi HDM,
    I am new to the site (been reading through everything over the past few days) and had a couple of questions if you don’t mind. I have a 15 week old golden retriever/australian shepherd mix puppy who was 20 lbs as of Monday 6/15. I have been treating her as a large breed dog because I think she will be pretty close to 60 lbs. I too did not know any better and was feeding her Science Diet for Large Breed Puppies based on vet’s recommendation. After reading some things, I am in the process of switching her over to Innova for LBP. I did the math that you mentioned above and the Ca is 2.46. But, I didn’t see it on your list (I just found it today), and wanted to know what you thought of Innova. If you don’t think Innova will be a good choice for her, out of the ones on your list, what do you think may be best? She seems fine on both food shes had so far. She had a little bit of runny stool when I first introduced Innova, but is back to normal now. Thank you so much for your time!

    #16735
    Swissy Mix
    Participant

    How much should I be feeding my Bernese/GSMD mix puppy? My husband thinks we need to feed him more; I say he’s fine. He’s about 50 lbs and 5 months. He’s not overweight, and his vet and dog trainer say he looks good. He’s on Victor’s Lamb & Rice, and he gets 2 cups twice a day. (He’s on Victor because that’s what the breeder fed him. We’re thinking of switching him, but we haven’t decided which one yet.) Is there a certain calorie count for extra large breed puppies I need to calculate to make sure he’s getting enough? Like he should have XX of calories a day, or something like that?

    #16442
    theBCnut
    Member

    I feed all my dogs, including an 11 yr old, All Life Stages foods which are puppy and every other age foods. I feel they are better quality than Adult foods.

    I have a puppy that can’t handle grains in his diet, so I know first hand that feeding grain free is just fine for puppies. I’ve heard all kinds of mixed answers too, but the things people say against feeding high protein are based on old research that was proved both faulty and false. Unfortunately, old wives tales are difficult to kill.

    #15378
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Hi August –

    I like Tripett for a canned topper for large breed puppies – it’s pure canned green tripe (so it’s only for a topper, not a balanced meal). Green tripe naturally has a balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio but it has a very low concentration of both minerals. However, if you’re only using a small amount of canned food as a topper I wouldn’t worry about the calcium levels.

    It’s really tough to recommend an amount to feed as energy requirements can vary drastically from dog to dog. The feeding guide on the bag would be a good place to start but keep in mind it’s only a starting point. Some dogs will need much more than what’s recommended on the feeding guide and others will need much less. You’ll need to assess your pup’s weight regularly and adjust his portions accordingly to ensure he maintains optimum body condition. He’ll be growing quickly and for the first 8 months or so you’ll find that you’ll need to adjust portions frequently.

    #13021
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    That’s a big false. In general, breeders aren’t the best source of nutritional advice. Many are under the false assumption that high protein foods cause growth issues in large and giant breed puppies. However, studies show there is absolutely no link between high protein foods and developmental orthopedic issues. What has been linked to development orthopedic issues is high levels of calcium, overfeeding, overexercising and – the number one cause – poor breeding (I hope your pup’s parents had their OFA clearances!). I raise my bloodhound pups (another giant breed) on high protein foods with controlled calcium levels. My current pup (now 7 months old) has been on a high protein raw diet (45-55% protein) since a brought her home at 8 weeks and she is having nice slow and controlled growth. There is a topic area here dedicated to large and giant breed puppy nutrition and here you’ll find links to several articles on the matter written by veterinarians and nutritionists and a list of recommended foods.

    /forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/

    #12825
    DieselJunki
    Member

    I had this very same issue last week! Here is my thread on it that had some very good answers.
    /forums/topic/crooked-leg-to-much-protein/

    First off I found that I was feeding a food that was WAY to high in calcium for a large breed puppy (I have an American Bull Dog). A Great Dane, being a large breed puppy needs a food that has the appropriate calcium levels. I recommend reading Hound Dog Moms thread on Large and Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition ( /forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/ )

    Here is a link on calcium level appropriate foods for large breed dogs https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BwApI_dhlbnFY183Q0NVRXlidWc . Hound Dog Mom also put this list together. It is in the form of a google document and you have to download it. Don’t be alarmed I promise there are no viruses in it as I have downloaded and looked at it myself. It has helped ALOT.

    I did end up taking my puppy (who was 9 weeks at the time) to the vet and they thought he had shifted his growth plate when they looked at his x-rays. This was on a Friday. They put a splint on him to keep him from damaging it further and sent me to an orthopedic surgeon which I went to on Monday. When the orthopedic surgeon took the splint off to look his leg was normal, there was no sign of knuckling over at all. They took another x-ray and said he was absolutely fine. They said that perhaps the way the x-ray was angled at my vets office it made it look like it had shifted. But I gotta say in the short time he wore that splint I believe it fixed his knuckling over.

    All in all I would suggest a trip to your vets office just to rule out anything being broken or out of place. After all, it’s better to catch these things now when they are fixable than to wait and have your puppies leg permanently damaged.

    Hope I helped and I hope your puppies leg gets better! Keep us posted!

    #12732
    sheeklouch
    Participant

    Dear Hound Dog Mom,

    I have a 13 week old pure bread Bullmastiff and I was wondering what you would recommend feeding him. The breeder recommended that we feed him Orijen Large Puppy Breed and the reviews all seemed positive so we gave it a try. After a few weeks, he is having trouble digesting it and having very soft stools almost diarrhea like. The vet told us that sometimes the high amount of protein in Orijen is hard for young puppies to digest and we should try switching over to a different type of food with a protein level around 30%. What would you recommend we switch too? Thanks!

    #11831
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Saireah –

    That’s really a tough question to answer as each dog is very different. The best thing you can do is monitor his his weight and adjust the food intake accordingly. So many factors can affect the calorie requirements of a dog including size, activity level, age, breed, gender, whether the dog is spayed or neutered, temperature, level of stress, etc. etc. A good place to start would be the feeding recommendation on the bag. Looking at Fromm’s feeding recommendation for their 4 Star line it’s based on an adult dog, so I would find his weight on the chart and double the suggested cups per day (because he’s a puppy and puppies at that age generally require about twice as many calories per pound as an adult dog). When he’s around 6 months old you could probably cut back to about 1 1/2 times the recommended amount for an adult dog. If he gets chubby cut him back, if he looks like he’s losing weight increase his feedings. Starting with the feeding chart on the bag is the and adjusting from there is the best suggestion I can give you. From personal experience though, you’ll probably have to adjust it. Just as an example, by 68 lb. spayed female eats the same amount as my 110 lb. unaltered male – doesn’t make any sense, right? According to Dr. Mike’s dog food calculator she should get 1,639 calories per day – she eats 2,500 calories per day.

    #10479
    aimee
    Participant

    Hound Dog Mom,
    That is a great compilation of articles on large breed growth. The most important tenets of large breed nutrition are to keep the puppy lean during the growth period and to feed foods that have a calcium level near 1% (dry diets).

    Calcium levels over 1.3 % in a dry food are likely approaching or above the safe upper limit for growth. Since there is no benefit to feeding these higher calcium products to a growing large breed and there may well be risk to the developing skeleton, IMHO they should not be fed during the growth period of a large/giant breed puppy.

    Unfortunately, manufactures may state their foods are appropriate for large breed growth when they exceed the recommended level and may even say it is a dietary factor other than calcium that is responsible for the growth problems seen in large breeds. It really is a buyer beware situation as even foods labeled as “large breed puppy” sometimes exceed the recommended level of calcium.

    On a energy basis the recommended amount of calcium is 3 grams/1000 kcals. The National Research Council sets the safe upper limit for calcium during growth at 4.5 grams/1000kcals. The European Pet Food Association sets the limit at 4 grams calcium /1000 kcals in puppies less than 6 months. AAFCO allows 7.14 grams/1000 kcals which is why large breed puppy owners have to be vigilant.

    Additionally, as you pointed out, when evaluating calcium levels in foods you have the know the actual calcium level in the food. Manufactures often report min. calcium levels so that their foods appear to have a calcium level lower than what they actually have.

    #10436
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    These are a few of my favorite articles and studies on the topic:

    1. “Nutritional Risks to Large and Giant Breed Dogs: From Weaning to the Geriatric Years” by Susan D. Lauten, PhD

    http://portais.ufg.br/uploads/66/original_Racas_grandes.pdf

    2. “Growth and Skeletal Development of Great Dane Pups Fed Different Levels of Protein Intake” Nap, Hazewinkel, Voorhout, Van Den Brom, Goedegebuure and Van ‘T Klooster

    http://jn.nutrition.org/content/121/11_Suppl/S107.full.pdf

    3. “Dietary Mineral Levels Affect Bone Development in Great Dane Pups” by Henry J. Baker DVM

    http://www.bestfriendsvet.com/pdffiles/BoneDevArticleWa.pdf

    4. “Feeding Large Breed Puppies” by Jennifer Larsen DVM, PhD, DACVN

    http://mobile.vetlearn.com/Media/images/pdf/2010/PV/PV0510_Nutrition.pdf

    5. “Why Overgowing Your Large Breed Puppy is Dangerous” Dr. Karen Becker DVM

    http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/04/09/slow-growth-diets-for-giant-breed-puppy.aspx

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