[Alexandra]

Hi Dr. Mike,

I would be more inclined to call them dry. Having the moisture removed to me qualifies them as dry. I would even go so far to say that they aren’t even truly raw foods as they have been processed.

I guess if we keep analyzing, then where does that leave the HPP processed foods, Natures variety and Primal. I know not all of Primal’s are HPP, but that would be an additional process done to the food.

Raw frozen, by that are you meaning Darwin’s and Bravo, etc? I would say they are raw products, they retain their moisture, and aren’t exposed to heat. They would retain their optimal nutrition.

Maybe rate these foods separate from each other? A category for freeze dried, dehydrated, etc.

Given that these are all processed to some extent, are they truly raw? I know it’s splitting hairs, but Darwin’s adds vegetables, so that would be a process. Bravo and Primal also add them to certain lines. I guess, the bottom line is what the “accepted” definition of raw is. For me, it would be the moisture rich foods with the barest amount of processing.

[Mike Sagman]

When comparing and rating raw dog foods here on The Dog Food Advisor, should dehydrated raw and freeze-dried raw dog foods be considered raw? Or dry?

So far, I’ve been considering raw frozen and freeze dried raw foods as truly raw. However, since nearly all dehydrated foods use a warm temperature forced air drying process, I’ve been classifying them as “dry” dog foods – even though they’re less processed than kibbles.

Are we being fair? How should we categorize and rate-freeze raw, dehydrated raw and raw frozen dog foods in future reviews?

Thanks for your opinions.

• This topic was modified 12 years, 12 months ago by Mike Sagman.

[Toxed2loss]

Both dietary and environmental toxins contribute to tear staining. That includes cleaning products, laundry products and everything with a fragrance. So can Pesticides, lawn and garden chemicals and petroleum products. Vaccines and worm Meds, and all other meds can also cause cause staining, as well as ear discharge, skin eruptions and seizures. Feeding the best specie appropriate diet, sans grain, potatoes & food additives goes a long way to helping keep your pet healthy, but its implant to remove environmental toxins as well. 🙂

[LabsRawesome]

I use a 5 star canned as their base food, to which I add a small amount (half a cup) of a 5 star kibble as a “topper”, actually the kibble goes on the bottom. 🙂 Also I like to add fresh eggs, sardines, various meats.

[soho]

In a dehydrated whole food product such as Grandma Lucy’s the QUALITY of the ingredients is far superior to your average kibble. In a dehydrated food you can take regular unprocessed foods and remove most of the water using a low heat. You wind up with a much less processed food than ANY kibble.

In a kibble the high protein content is always achieved by the use of meat meals. Meat meals are a highly processed protein concentrate that can be made from much lower quality ingredients than what is used in your average dehydrated product.

You can add some meat or a 95% meat canned food to Grandma Lucy’s as a topper and and you would have a much more nutritious product than you could have by using any 5 star kibble as your base.

[vgrsmith]

My senior dog developed stomach & skin problems about 3 years ago. Vet put him on Hill RX D/D after ruling out parasites, bugs, dry skin , etc.
It did seem to do the trick for him. No more itching and no more upset stomach. However, it is very expensive, I can only get it at the vet, and I noticed it had a very low rating. Any suggestions for a replacement food?

[theBCnut]

You should store the food in its own bag with the top rolled down in a cool dry location. Fats can go bad from exposure to air, heat, some metals, etc. If you keep it in its original bag then you have info for possible recalls and the experation date on the bag. If you get a large bag, but have a small dog, you might want to store excess in the fridge/freezer.

[Mitzi]

This may belong in another post, but it’s my first so bear with me.

We purchased Blue Wilderness in a 20lb bag and stored it in a can as usual. As we got down to the bottom the food started smelling really bad. A very strong fishy smell. Mollie stopped eating it so what could’ve made it start smelling? Should we not store dry food in a can? Thanks!

[Sedlypets]

We have a 6 yr old lab female we’ve recently adopted almost 4 months ago. She needs to lose about 10 lbs. I have been walking with her regularly even as much as 3.5 miles every other day and giving her less dry food and supplementing the other half with green beans. Even with all this, she is stuck on the scale. I think its a metabolism issue. She has been tested for thyroid and that was negative.
Her vet recommends the Hills Science diet, but given the scathing reviews out there I refuse to give that to her.
Any recommendations? She is currently on Diamond Lamb and rice (from her breeder) which she has no major issues with. I’m getting dizzy with all the information about dog foods out there that I was thinking of doing home cooked meals for her!
Thanks!

[Hound Dog Mom]

mcaponigro –

I agree. I think some are led to believe a grain-free or grain-free/white potato free food is automatically superior or “species appropriate”, which isn’t the case. There are some wonderful grain-free and white potato free foods, but many more that are low protein, high carb and in no way species-appropriate. Whether the binder is grain, potato, tapioca or legumes – one must keep in mind that none are appropriate foods for a dog (carnivore) to be eating. The most important thing when feeding dry food is – in my opinion – focus more on maximizing meat content and protein content rather than picking a food based on which binder it uses. It’s also important to remember that just because a food contains an ingredient that is high glycemic doesn’t necessarily mean that the food is high glycemic – for an example, Orijen – which contains white potato – is one of the few foods certified low glycemic by the glycemic research institute. I think the only way one can truly avoid these high carb fillers is to go with an all meat or all meat and non-starchy vegetable canned food or feed a homemade diet free from grains and other starches.

[billhill]

I just heard that the Canidae brand of dry dog food might only have extensive safety testing at the new Ethos plant in Texas, since the various formulas are also manufactured by other contract producers around the country.
Does anyone know about the testing at Diamond, for instance, as of Dec 2012, since they still do contract production for other brands?

• This topic was modified 4 years ago by Mike Sagman. Reason: Fix Duplicate Topic Title

[aviva669]

I have a dog with sensitive skin and it got infected. after 2 trips to the vet I started the kid on a venison only dry food moistened with water. It was pretty good for a bit but he is scratching again. He likes the rub under bushes during his walk. Any suggestions on shampoo?
thanks

[Hound Dog Mom]

clm86 –

Considering your dog’s issues I think Abady granular would be worth looking into. It would be a great food for putting weight on a dog – it’s high fat with around 800 calories per cup (about twice as many calories per cup as kibble). I’ve also heard dogs with sensitive stomachs do well on it.

Wet food is definitely a good addition to dry food, but it wouldn’t help much as far as adding calories. Due to its high moisture content wet food is generally much less calorie-dense than dry food.

I had issues getting my female bloodhound (now two years old) to gain weight and it wasn’t until I switched her to a high protein, high fat, low carbohydrate homemade raw diet that I got her to gain anything (she’s still skinny but looks a lot better than before she was on raw). She eats 2 lbs. of meat per day with extras – such as eggs, cottage cheese and kefir – plus supplements and veggies and I was able to get her to put on 5 (much needed!) pounds after three months on raw and now she’s maintaining nicely. I aim for her meals to be 40-50% protein and 30-40% fat. So if you’ve got the time and money a high fat homemade diet would probably be the best option. The other benefit of homemade is you can tailor it to the needs of your sensitive dog since you control all the ingredients that go into it.

[clm86]

I need some help in selecting a dog food for my one Swissie…

Here’s the scoop: I have 2 Swiss Mountain Dogs. One is a 4 y/o bitch, who has the stomach of a garbage disposal, and could eat steel and be fine. Her weight is perfect. The other one is a 3 y/o neutered dog, sensitive skin/stomach, who I can’t put weight on for the life of me! He’s not overly skinny, but just tall and lean. We started out by feeding them Diamond Extreme Athlete. Holy gassy mess. And the male would get diarrhea every time we got a new bag. (?). So I’ve switched the female to Diamond Chicken and Rice– she’s fine on that. The male is currently on Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach (salmon)…and while he’s handling it well, I don’t see any changes in weight (he’s been on this for about 2 weeks now, so maybe I’m just being inpatient?)

What would you suggest to pack on some calories without being harsh on the stomach? Oh– I forgot to mention, he gets 6C of the Pro Plan daily. (Recommended is like 4-5). I was considering throwing in some wet food with his dry food, but it would have to be something PACKED with calories.

Suggestions, anyone?

Thanks!

• This topic was modified 13 years ago by Mike Sagman.
• This topic was modified 13 years ago by Mike Sagman.

[billhill]

I just heard that the Canidae brand of dry dog food might only have extensive safety testing at the new Ethos plant in Texas, since the various formulas are also manufactured by other contract producers around the country.

Does anyone know about the testing at Diamond, for instance, as of Dec 2012, since they still do contract production for other brands?

Bill

[theBCnut]

Between dog food, cat food, and cat litter, I always have plenty of good sized, heavy duty, lined bags laying around. I scoop into the bag regularly but I leave the bag open so the contents continue to dry out. On garbage day, I roll down the top and make a deposit of my own in the trash can;-)

[Shawna]

Hi Jesse82 ~~ several ingredients in dog foods are known to cause allergy type reactions. TotW is not a bad food but it does have potato and potato is one of the ingredients that can be problematic for a lot of dogs with allergies and sensitivities. Chicken is another if he’s eating TotW w/ chicken.

I’d try a food that uses a carb different from potato — Nature’s Variety Instinct and Brother’s Complete both use tapioca, Nature’s Logic uses millet, others use chickpeas/garbonzo beans etc.

I react the same way as your boy to dairy products. Itch my scalp til it bleeds in my sleep. Benedryl helps me for about 4 hours then the itching (and other symptoms) come back. Zyrtec works for much longer but unless I go dairy free it always comes back. Same thing happens with my dog Audrey. Her itching was between her shoulder blades and it would get crimson red she was so inflammed.. Until I eliminated the ingredients (4 total) she had issues with it NEVER completely went away.

[BryanV21]

Thanks for pointing that out… seriously. It’s interesting to read things like that. However, since I can find studies to prove anything, whether they are contradictory or not, I don’t put a whole lot of stock in them. Just another example of science failing or confusing people. Which is why I’m an advocate of the ancestral or evolutionary diet.

Besides, it’s not as if a dog owner doesn’t need to practice good oral hygiene anyway. And if an owner is doing that, then it doesn’t matter. The more important thing is which food is best, not which is dry or wet.

[BryanV21]

Patty made it clear that it’s a history of recalls that’s the issue, not one in particular. History shows that it’s quite possible for another recall/issue to arise in the near future… that’s the problem.

And their rating here at DFA is indicative of their ingredients and dry analysis, it is not based on their history pertaining to recalls or other health conditions. Which is why I tell people that inquire about Taste of the Wild that it is a good food per it’s ingredients, however Diamond’s history keeps me from recommending it.

Another case where needing to look into the gray area is necessary, as it’s not a black or white thing.

[aimee]

Hi BryanV21,

I brush my dogs teeth, provide chews (never bones) and like you thought that the idea that “dry diets are better for teeth” was a long stretch. But I came across some interesting publications looking at this issue and I find that I need to alter my beliefs. Certainly I don’t think that dry food equates with a healthy mouth, and maybe the overall health significance between dry fed and wet fed pets may not be great, but it looks like there is some basis to “the myth”

“Even after adjustment for age, the mean oral health index was significantly higher in cats and dogs fed soft food compared with those fed dry or mixed food, and the mean oral health index was significantly higher in cats and dogs fed mixed food than in those fed dry food. These results indicate that feeding a dry food diet has a positive influence on oral health, decreasing the occurrence of mandibular lymphadenopathy, dental deposits, and periodontal disease in cats and dogs.”

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/7/2021S.long

[BryanV21]

Wet food is not bad for teeth. You should be cleaning the dog’s teeth fairly often anyway, whether that be with brushing or using other teeth cleaning products. I’ve read that giving dogs raw meaty bones is a great way to keep teeth clean as well.

And if you’re being told that dry food is good for teeth, as it cleans them while chewing then ignore it. It’s a myth. Dry food crumbles when bitten down on, especially by the dog’s conical shaped teeth, so it’s not “scraping” the teeth at all. And a bad dog food is going to have ingredients that are more “sticky” and keep the mouth dirty anyway, whether it’s dry or wet.

[Devilbrad]

I’ll try some of these tips and more tough love. My hound is so picky, but she does seem to prefer Merrick wet food and her second choice is EVO 95. I can’t get her to touch dry food anymore. And I almost always have to put shredded cheese on the food just to get her started. She will eat the living day lights out of human food and anything she finds on our walks though, LOL I’m tempted to cook meals that her and I can share. I’m sure if it came off the stove and was what I was eating she would gobble it up. Now, don’t get me wrong, she does eat and is nice and healthy, not being neglected, that’s for sure!

[Hound Dog Mom]

debbylcc –

Why do you want your dog to eat dry food? If your dog prefers the wet there’s nothing wrong with feeding only wet – a quality wet food is actually much healthier than dry food and wet food is better for weight loss. Wet food is generally higher in protein, lower in carbohydrates and higher in moisture than dry food making it more species-appropriate. Due to its high moisture content wet food is also, typically, much less calorically-dense than dry food making it a great option for dogs like yours that need to loose weight. To put it into perspective I’ll use Iams as my example (Pro Plan doesn’t list calorie information on their website and Iams is a comparable food to use for comparison): 1 C. Iams Proactive Health Adult Chunks with Chicken (canned) has 212 calories and is 44% protein whereas 1 C. Proactive Health Adult Chunks (dry) has 367 kcal. and is only 25% protein. Check out Dr. Mike’s article “Canned or Dry Dog Food – What’s the Better Choice”

[Hound Dog Mom]

debbylcc –

Why do you want your dog to eat dry food? If your dog prefers the wet there’s nothing wrong with feeding only wet – a quality wet food is actually much healthier than dry food and wet food is better for weight loss. Wet food is generally higher in protein, lower in carbohydrates and higher in moisture than dry food making it more species-appropriate. Due to its high moisture content wet food is also, typically, much less calorically-dense than dry food making it a great option for dogs like yours that need to loose weight. To put it into perspective I’ll use Iams as my example (Pro Plan doesn’t list calorie information on their website and Iams is a comparable food to use for comparison): 1 C. Iams Proactive Health Adult Chunks with Chicken (canned) has 212 calories and is 44% protein whereas 1 C. Proactive Health Adult Chunks (dry) has 367 kcal. and is only 25% protein. Check out Dr. Mike’s article “Canned or Dry Dog Food – What’s the Better Choice” /choosing-dog-food/canned-or-dry-dog-food/

[BryanV21]

I hear this issue a lot, referring to picky dogs. More often than not it’s owners that are unwilling to give their dogs tough love.

Just like anybody else, they are going to prefer one type of food over another, but that doesn’t mean you have to be a big softy all the time and give in. If you put down dry food for your dog and it doesn’t eat, that doesn’t mean running to the pantry and putting down wet food instead. Sometimes your dog just isn’t that hungry, and would rather wait and see if it will get it’s favorite food instead.

Of course, if your dog has gone a day or two without eating, then it’s okay to be concerned. In that case I’d look into alternate dry foods. Normally those with a higher amount of meat are more palatable. My store recently received the new line of Merrick foods, and so far I’ve had a few people rave about how much their dogs like it. Fromm foods are very palatable too, as they put Parmesan cheese in all their formulas, and dogs tend to love cheese.

While the Pro Plan is not “Beneful” bad, I’m not impressed by the ingredient listing. Chicken comes first, followed by barley, dried egg product, and then chicken meal. Chicken, or any meat, is about 70% water, so when it’s cooked the water is gone meaning the weight of the chicken goes down quite a bit. Therefore this food has more barley and dried egg product than actual meat. So I’d definitely have you try some different foods in order to entice your dog to eat more… assuming that’s a problem, and not a temporary situation.

And as for the weight loss thing… you’ll find that you don’t have to feed as much with foods containing more meat, or animal-based protein. A dog’s digestive system is designed to digest meats, organs, and other animal-based foods. I’m not saying dogs can’t have fruits and vegetables, or even some grains, just that their bodies have a more difficult time with those. For example, humans and other omnivores have salivary amylase, which starts to break down the cell walls of plants right away, making it easier to digest once it gets down to the stomach. Not to mention the fact humans and other omnivores have a longer digestive tract, unlike dogs and other carnivores whose digestive tracts are shorter, and thus don’t have as much time to process the foods.

And if your pup is still hungry, that doesn’t mean adding more of the dry dog food, which will add extra calories and fat. You can simply add some thawed frozen green beans to the food instead, as they won’t add any more calories or fat, but your dog will be fuller and satisfied.

[Hound Dog Mom]

debbylcc –

Why don’t you want her to eat only wet food? As long as you’re feeding a quality canned food, canned is actually healthier than dry – especially for weight loss. Canned food is generally higher in protein than dry food, lower in carbs than dry food and it contains much more moisture. Because canned food is so high in moisture (generally 75% – 85%) is it usually much less calorically-dense than dry food so your dog can eat a larger volume of canned food for the same amount of calories as a dry food. Most dry foods have around 400 kcal. per cup while most canned foods have about the same amount of calories for a 13.2 oz. can (that’s a little over 1 1/2 C. food). Check out Dr. Mike’s article “Canned or Dry Dog Food – What’s the Better Choice?” /choosing-dog-food/canned-or-dry-dog-food/

[debbylcc]

I am in a similar situation with my new girl only she’s on the heavy side. She’s a pom/corgi mix…looks like a pom but has a corgi body and is a little overweight. By how much is anyone’s guess as the 3 times she’s been weighed she’s been 3 different weights! (all within one day of each other) The vet said she should lose 2 pounds. I wonder if that’s enough as she’s got some definite rolls. She is a rescue and apparently grew up on human food. I’m using Pro-Plan right now as a medium quality food. I want her to eat kibble so I’m mixing wet and dry 50/50. She’s eating the wet and leaving the kibble. Any suggestions? I don’t want her to have a diet of only wet food if I can help it. For the first 3 days I had her (it will be a week tomorrow) when I presented only dry food she did not eat AT ALL!!!!

[aimee]

Hound Dog Mom,
That is a great compilation of articles on large breed growth. The most important tenets of large breed nutrition are to keep the puppy lean during the growth period and to feed foods that have a calcium level near 1% (dry diets).

Calcium levels over 1.3 % in a dry food are likely approaching or above the safe upper limit for growth. Since there is no benefit to feeding these higher calcium products to a growing large breed and there may well be risk to the developing skeleton, IMHO they should not be fed during the growth period of a large/giant breed puppy.

Unfortunately, manufactures may state their foods are appropriate for large breed growth when they exceed the recommended level and may even say it is a dietary factor other than calcium that is responsible for the growth problems seen in large breeds. It really is a buyer beware situation as even foods labeled as “large breed puppy” sometimes exceed the recommended level of calcium.

On a energy basis the recommended amount of calcium is 3 grams/1000 kcals. The National Research Council sets the safe upper limit for calcium during growth at 4.5 grams/1000kcals. The European Pet Food Association sets the limit at 4 grams calcium /1000 kcals in puppies less than 6 months. AAFCO allows 7.14 grams/1000 kcals which is why large breed puppy owners have to be vigilant.

Additionally, as you pointed out, when evaluating calcium levels in foods you have the know the actual calcium level in the food. Manufactures often report min. calcium levels so that their foods appear to have a calcium level lower than what they actually have.

[BryanV21]

Yeah, if a food doesn’t have that much protein or other nutrients, or has inferior ingredients, then it doesn’t matter whether it’s dry, wet, dehydrated, freeze-dried, raw, or whatever.

I don’t think kibble is best for dogs by any means, but I totally understand the cost and convenience of it being more attractive to dog owners. But I like that you top the food like that.

[InkedMarie]

I agree with Hound Dog Mom although I have fed various The Honest Kitchen products and not all of them are five star.

[RonPeter]

Thanks for the reply, I use a 5 star kibble and top it with Grandma Lucy’s Artisan which is a 4 star and Sojos Complete which is a 3.5 star, I was curious if they were as good as the 5 star kibble or not, thanks.

[Hound Dog Mom]

A 5 star dry food would be better than a 3 or 4 star dehydrated food, however a 5 star dehydrated food would be better than a 5 star dry food (my opinion). If a food is rated 3 or 4 stars it’s because it’s too low in protein or contains some questionable ingredients.

[RonPeter]

Ok I have been curious about this, is it better to give a 5 star dry food than a 3-4 star dehydrated food? Which is better? LOL

[Anonymous]

NEED HELPFUL ADVICE: I have a full blooded blue pitbul champion Gotti line, he is four months old, and off course he is one of my kids, I am trying to find the best food to feed him that can also help with his skin, right now I feed him “Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream” which is suppose to be TOP LINE and is ridiculous expansible but worth it for my baby, pitbuls are very known to have sensitive
skin. And my baby has really really sensitive skin specially since he is blue, so he gets a lot of rashes, the vet told me to shower him more often with a special shampoo and I do, to use ointment/lotion and i do, to also give him benedryl and I have but nothing helps, benedryl only helps for a few hours. I really think if I find the right food for him it can help. Last night by baby woke up at 230am itching at his rashes (yes he sleeps in my bed) and crying in fustration. be bites at it to the point it bleeds so to help him and sooth him I bath him in warm water which helps, and rub ointment on it until he falls asleep. yes he is very spoiled but the rubbing helps so he doesnt itch at it so I was up all night with him. SOOOOOO my point, does anyone of the pitbul lovers out there has experience the same and what did you do to help it go away, what food do you feed your little guy/girl? Searching the internet has been useless because there is just so much information out there you just cant tell what really works. HELP