[CornchipCorgi]

My puppy is now an 8 month old corgi. Shortly after getting him from his breeder we transitioned him to a raw diet. However starting in January when he was about 2 months old he’s had recurring UTIs. Since then we have visited the vet 3 times and had him on 4 different antibiotics. From what they told us he has crystals in his urine because his urine has a very low pH. We feed him cranberry powder with his raw.

I don’t know what’s causing my poor puppy to be sick like this constantly. I want to find the cause and get him treated ASAP. I heard from a vet tech friend of mine that raw diet will cause bladder and UTI problems. I asked my current vet and they said it is possible. Is this true? Why can other dogs thrive on it but not mine?

[Anonymous]

Some info here: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/

Whatever you decide to feed him, add water to meals and offer frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate. Keep the bladder flushed.

[Anonymous]

Your puppy is too young to be having all these problems. It’s obvious his diet does not agree with him.
If it was my dog I would ask the veterinarian for advice as to what would be best to feed him. Then I would take his advice.

PS: I had a corgi, they are beautiful dogs.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 9 months ago by Anonymous.

[Pitlove]

It’s unlikely the raw diet is causing the UTI’s, but it isn’t impossible. Raw diets have extremely high moisture content and should be flushing the kidneys out enough to stop the formation of crystals. That being said, perhaps there is an ingredient in the diet or another cause that is forming the UTI’s.

Consulting and working with your vet is great, but like with humans sometimes one persons opinion is not enough to solve the problem and one person might not have all the info. I would highly suggest contacting other vets and possibly even a nutritionist to make sure the raw diet you are feeding is appropriate and doesn’t contain anything that could be causing these frequent UTI’s.

Edit: For the record, SkeptVet is not the only source on the internet and he already has a bias opinion about raw.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 9 months ago by Pitlove.

[Anonymous]

Regarding The SkeptVet, that is not true and if you read through his blogs you may even learn something.

It is really frustrating to see incorrect information being posted all over the internet. I have to ignore opinions all the time.
Opinions are like noses…. everyone has one 🙂

The SkeptVet backs up his opinions with scientific evidence.

[Pitlove]

I have. He is extremely against raw diets. All he talks about is how there is no evidence stating the need for a raw ancestral diet and there is too much risk of bacterial contamination. The OP doesn’t need someone who isn’t going to objectively say ‘ok lets try to figure this out and not jump to the conclusion that it’s the raw diet’.

Third article down in that link and the next 2 prove my point.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 9 months ago by Pitlove.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 9 months ago by Pitlove.

[Pitlove]

It is extremely dangerous to recommend only one source of info constantly which you do with SkeptVet and the constant recommendation to only speak to ones existing vet and not look further for information. I can tell you this from personal experience dealing with human doctors. It took 3 doctors– 2 of which dismissed my symptoms as “back spasms”, 1 of which laughed at me and asked me if I had a medical degree because I said I thought it was something with my kidneys– to figure out I had a UTI that was causing me the most severe back pain in my life. Vet’s are no different. Trusting the opinion of one vet over the internet or one source over the internet and in real life is highly dangerous and might not lead to a solution.

[aquariangt]

SkeptVet is like Michael Moore, or Rush Limbaugh. Obscenely one sided in all of his viewing, and only links scientific data that backs his opinion. I dislike anyone that closeminded. When I first started reading some of his blog posts I expected him to be a 80 year old vet practicing for the last 50 years, since he seems to refuse to believe and recent studies. I’m going to assume he uses prong collars and rolls his dogs too 🙂

[Pitlove]

Eh I use a prong collar for Bentley (I exhausted all other options first for his pulling), however I took the time to watch proffessional trainers show how to properly put them on. Aside from that I had the same idea of SkeptVet lol. Not to mention he doesn’t actually post scientific evidence stating the raw diets are pointless, he simply says there is no scientific studies showing the benefits. Not to mention science is changing all the time, therefore, as all my human bio, psych and regular biology teachers have told us, there is no absolute truth in science. Not to mention all the feeding trials that people want to see to prove whether or not a food works successfully do not show long term (5+ years) effects of use. It would be impossible to have a feeding trial last that long. Thats why despite it not being “scientific”, people’s experiences with prolonged longevity in their dogs based on whatever diet they are feeding has to be taken into account.

[Anonymous]

“I don’t know what’s causing my poor puppy to be sick like this constantly. I want to find the cause and get him treated ASAP. I heard from a vet tech friend of mine that raw diet will cause bladder and UTI problems. I asked my current vet and they said it is possible. Is this true? Why can other dogs thrive on it but not mine?”

If it’s not the diet…his problems may have a genetic component. We can’t control genetic, but we can make changes regarding diet, exercise (external things) and see if that makes a difference.
I would consider asking your vet for a referral to a specialist, if he can’t get to the bottom of it.
BTW: Maybe you know this already, but corgis are high energy working dogs (herding). They love to eat and tend to put weight on easily. I had to walk mine 5 miles a day to keep her in shape. Hope this helps.

[aimee]

Hi Cornchipcorgi,

When my girl was a pup she was diagnosed with UTI and I freaked out as her breed is known for urinary tract malformations. I’m not familiar with Corgis so I can’t comment on that aspect. I can tell you that I invested in multiple urine cultures baseline radiographs and an ultrasound. If she recurred my plan was to have urinary tract scoped.

In my extensive research I’ve never found that diet either causes or prevents UTI.

[SkeptVet]

Wow! It appears to be impossible for some here to disagree with someone else without being abusive and outright lying about them. Apart from being dishonest and gratuitously mean, it doesn’t really help answer the OP’s question, so it’s just snarking to make yourselves feel better.

For the record-
1. I’m not “extremely against raw diets.” I think the arguments made in favor of them range from complete nonsense to reasonable but unproven. The bottom line is that such diets might or might not have health benefits but no one has yet done the research to prove it, and all the armchair theorizing and anecdotes in the world won’t substitute for that.

And while the benefits are unproven, some of the risks are known. They are small, and not a reason to avoid raw diets if some benefits do turn out to show up in scientific studies some day, but there’s no reason to take even small risks when the only evidence is guesswork.

So I am skeptical of raw diets, but like anyone who understands how science works I proportion my judgments to the evidence, and since the evidence is almost non-existent I don’t make definitive judgments for or against the practice.

2. As for the UTI mentioned in the OP, I am not aware of any evidence that suggests raw diets increase the risk of UTIs. Sure, they expose pets to additional bacterial pathogens, but most of the common UTI organisms are already ubiquitous, and it seems unlikely that a few more would make a huge difference.

3. I won’t bother responding to the vapid and silly personal stuff, but anyone who actually reads my articles on raw diets will see plenty of links to original research studies.

And it’s pretty bizarre to see in one paragraph a complaint that I don’t provide scientific evidence, then a suggestion such evidence doesn’t matter anyway since “science changes,” and then an argument that good evidence concerning raw diets is impractical anyway so we should all just rely on anecdotes. Since you clearly don’t think science matters, it’s pretty hypocritical (and, of course, factually incorrect) to complain that I don’t provide any scientific evidence.

Bottom line is that I doubt the diet has anything to do with the UTI problems in this case, and I cannot understand why adults can’t discuss and debate these sorts of issues without all of the hyperbole and personal abuse. Even if you don’t like my opinions, try to cite them accurately.

[Pitlove]

“And it’s pretty bizarre to see in one paragraph a complaint that I don’t provide scientific evidence, then a suggestion such evidence doesn’t matter anyway since “science changes,” and then an argument that good evidence concerning raw diets is impractical anyway so we should all just rely on anecdotes. Since you clearly don’t think science matters, it’s pretty hypocritical (and, of course, factually incorrect) to complain that I don’t provide any scientific evidence.”

Science is constantly changing and as a DVM I’m certain you were taught that in your classes. If not maybe consider going back and take a more up to date biology class. It was discussed frequently in all of my biology and psychology classes. Also I am a firm believer in science and I do not like to 100% give into an idea if I can not see any tangable evidence of the success or failure of an idea or practice. I simply said (and this is true) that it is impossible to do a feeding trial on ANY type of dog food be it kibble, canned, raw whatever long enough to 100% know the long term effects of feeding that food for years of a dogs life. And I did not say that anecdotes should be the only thing considered, I said that they need to be factored in and taken into account regardless of there lack of data based science BECAUSE feeding trials can not accurately show long term effects of feeding a certain diet to a dog.

If you are going to respond to something I say, please read what I wrote more carefully next time.

[Pitlove]

Wouldn’t let me edit my post, however I’d like to add something written by Dr. Randy Wysong about feeding trials.

http://www.wysong.net/pet-health-and-nutrition/animal-testing-and-feeding-trials.php

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