Orijen Dog Food (Dry)

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Rating: ★★★★★

Orijen dry dog food receives the Advisor’s top rating of 5 stars.

The Orijen product line includes six dry dog foods, five claimed to meet AAFCO nutrient profiles for all life stages and one (Senior) for adult maintenance.

The following is a list of recipes available at the time of this review.

  • Orijen Adult
  • Orijen Puppy
  • Orijen Senior
  • Orijen Six Fish
  • Orijen Puppy Large
  • Orijen Regional Red

Orijen Adult dog food was selected to represent the other products in the line for this review.

Orijen Adult Dog

Dry Dog Food

Estimated Dry Matter Nutrient Content

Protein = 42% | Fat = 20% | Carbs = 30%

Ingredients: Boneless chicken, chicken meal, chicken liver, whole herring, boneless turkey, turkey meal, turkey liver, whole eggs, boneless walleye, whole salmon, chicken heart, chicken cartilage, herring meal, salmon meal, chicken liver oil, red lentils, green peas, green lentils, sun-cured alfalfa, yams, pea fibre, chickpeas, pumpkin, butternut squash, spinach greens, carrots, red delicious apples, bartlett pears, cranberries, blueberries, kelp, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, Enterococcus faecium, supplements: vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, riboflavin, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium yeast

Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 5.6%

Red items when present indicate controversial ingredients

Estimated Nutrient Content
MethodProteinFatCarbs
Guaranteed Analysis38%18%NA
Dry Matter Basis42%20%30%
Calorie Weighted Basis35%40%25%

The first ingredient in this dog food lists chicken. Although it is a quality item, raw chicken contains about 80% water. After cooking, most of that moisture is lost, reducing the meat content to just a fraction of its original weight.

After processing, this item would probably account for a smaller part of the total content of the finished product.

The second ingredient is chicken meal. Chicken meal is considered a meat concentrate and contains nearly 300% more protein than fresh chicken.

The third ingredient is chicken liver. This is an organ meat sourced from a named animal and thus considered a beneficial component.

The fourth ingredient lists herring. Herring is a fatty marine fish naturally high in protein as well as omega 3 fatty acids, essential oils needed by every dog to sustain life.

The fifth ingredient is turkey, another quality raw item. After processing, this item would probably account for a smaller part of the total content of the finished product.

The sixth ingredient includes turkey meal, another protein-rich meat concentrate.

The seventh item is turkey liver. This is an organ meat sourced from a named animal and thus considered a beneficial component.

The eighth ingredient is whole eggs. Eggs are easy to digest and have an exceptionally high biological value.

The ninth item is walleye, a freshwater fish native to the northern region of the United States and much of Canada.

The tenth ingredient includes salmon. Salmon is an oily marine and freshwater fish not only high in protein but also omega 3 fatty acids, essential oils needed by every dog to sustain life.

The next ingredient is chicken heart. Although it doesn’t sound very appetizing to us humans, heart tissue is pure muscle — all meat. It’s naturally rich in quality protein, minerals and complex B vitamins, too.

Next on the ingredient list is chicken cartilage, a source of both glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate — natural substances believed to support joint health.

After chicken cartilage we find herring meal and salmon meal, yet two more high protein meat concentrates.

We are pleased to report that, unlike other fish meals, the salmon and herring meals used in this product1 are ethoxyquin-free.

From here, the list goes on to include a number of other items.

But to be realistic, ingredients located this far down the list (other than nutritional supplements) are not likely to affect the overall rating of this product.

With three notable exceptions

First, this recipe contains selenium yeast. Unlike the more common inorganic form of selenium (sodium selenite), this natural yeast supplement is considered a safer anti-cancer alternative.

Next, the company appears to have applied friendly bacteria to the surface of the kibble after cooking. These special probiotics are used to enhance a dog’s digestive and immune functions.

And lastly, this food also contains chelated minerals, minerals that have been chemically attached to protein. This makes them easier to absorb. Chelated minerals are usually found in better dog foods.

Orijen Dry Dog Food
The Bottom Line

Judging by its ingredients alone, Orijen dry dog food looks like an above average dry product.

But ingredient quality by itself cannot tell the whole story. We still need to estimate the product’s meat content before determining a final rating.

The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 42%, a fat level of 20% and estimated carbohydrates of about 30%.

As a group, the brand features an average protein content of 42% and a mean fat level of 19%. Together, these figures suggest a carbohydrate content of 30% for the overall product line.

And a fat-to-protein ratio of about 46%.

Above-average protein. Above-average fat. And below-average carbs when compared to a typical dry dog food.

Even when you consider the protein-boosting effects of the red and green lentils, green peas and chickpeas, this looks like the profile of a kibble containing a significant amount of meat.

Bottom line?

Orijen dry dog food is a meat-based kibble using an abundance of named meats and organs as its main sources of animal protein, thus earning the brand 5 stars.

Enthusiastically recommended.

Please note some products may have been given higher or lower ratings based upon our estimate of their total meat content.

Special Alert

Rice ingredients can sometimes contain arsenic. Until the US FDA establishes safe upper levels for arsenic content, pet owners may wish to limit the total amount of rice fed in a dog's daily diet.

A Final Word

The descriptions and analyses expressed in this and every article on this website represent the views and opinions of the author.

Although it's our goal to ensure all the information on this website is correct, we cannot guarantee its completeness or its accuracy; nor can we commit to ensuring all the material is kept up-to-date on a daily basis.

Each review is offered in good faith and has been designed to help you make a more informed decision when buying dog food.

However, our rating system is not intended to suggest feeding a particular product will result in specific health benefits for your pet.

For a better understanding of how we analyze each product, please read our article, "The Problem with Dog Food Reviews".

Remember, no dog food can possibly be appropriate for every life stage, lifestyle or health condition. So, choose wisely. And when in doubt, consult a qualified veterinary professional for help.

In closing, we do not accept money, gifts or samples from pet food companies in exchange for special consideration in the preparation of our reviews or ratings.

To learn how we support the cost of operating this website, please visit our public Disclosure and Disclaimer page.

Have an opinion about this dog food? Or maybe the review itself? Please know we welcome your comments.

Other spellings: Origen, Orijin

Notes and Updates

01/24/2010 Original review
08/27/2010 Review updated
11/17/2010 New recipe
08/18/2012 Review updated
02/17/2013 Review updated
02/17/2013 Last Update

  1. Orijen website FAQ, 8/27/2010
  • Melissaandcrew

    Hi Nancy- After over a yr of trial and error I discovered my dogs issue was fiber content. For my girl Abady granular, victor ultra pro grainfree and anything raw. She can now eat most dry foods if only a small amount is mixed with raw. Today breakfast for her was 1 cup Acana with ground chicken quarters. It took months of her being stable on the Victor s for me to try others. If not fed raw with the dry we get raging foul diarrhea.

  • theBCnut

    Very good!! That sounds like she is building some muscle and burning some fat, the best of both worlds.

  • Nancy Calloway

    Betsy, I am wondering what foods you are finding luck with. Know that dogs are unique but it does HELP to hear what people are using to get good results. Eventually I am hoping to get him on Dr TIMS Kinesis. And someone told me about BEST BREED, a small company, but they have a German Dog feed and there are very favorable reviews about it. A vet also has formulated this line of food. To get on these is my HOPE. But I will leave him on Sensitive Stomach for a while to not stress the digestive tract any more than it has been.
    Any brands you want to mention?

  • Nancy Calloway

    Thank you ! YES, it is helpful to hear it. I suspected lentils. This has been a LONG RECOVERY in which the vet put him on Metronidazole twice for continual diarrhea and she also put him on HILLS Rx WD food which I shudder every time I pour it in the bowl. I am now transitioning him to PURINA PRO Select Sensitive Stomach because someone who I consider very informed, and who has large dogs and has been through a similar experience, suggested that this is actually a good food -tried and true – to transition to. ( I tried three weeks ago to transition him to SCIENCE DIET SENSITIVE STOMACH AND SKIN – Vet recommended, of course) and the very next day he started with the diarrhea again and then it turned to a weekend of runny diarrhea. ) But listen to this the day before I started the transition which I immediately stopped, I bought a SOLESTO COLLAR at the vet on my way out from the “well” checkup where the vet said start w Sensitive Stomach. Two weeks later I read some horrible reviews about that collar. It has caused diarrhea in dogs. So I yanked it off and in a couple of days he improved. But I did not go back to Science diet sensitive stomach. Coward. It COULD have been part of the problem.
    I have been through torture JUST to get my dog OFF TOW! Arrgh. Thank you for sharing. Origen should take those LENTILS and PEAS OUT of the mix.

  • Betsy Greer

    Hi Nancy,

    My dog with a sensitive digestive system doesn’t do well on either Orijen or Acana, in large part because of the lentils and chickpeas. He developed gas and loose unformed stool. Maybe that’s your dog’s issue as well, as TOTW uses neither.

  • Nancy Calloway

    I have to add to Betsy’s response to Guest — I tried to slowly transition my 18 month old healthy GSD to Origen back in February. 8 weeks later I have lived great difficulty and angst with loose stools once we arrived at 50/50 from TOW High Prairie. I tried to move to ACANA and the same thing happened at 50/50. He was doing fine on TOW but I was afraid of the recalls & wanted him off. So we have spent fretful WEEKS in digestive rehab. NORMAL STOOLS would be my dream come true. Sometimes I PRAY when I take him out and he positions for another poop. People on this website have helped me so much and I am very grateful. Axel is now on HILLS Rx WD formula and poops all the time these dry grainy poops. I’m transitioning him off of it now to a Sensitive Stomach feed. He has lost 4 pounds. A LONG EXERCISE. So my suggestion is that you move slowly, whatever you do. There are other great foods to consider.

  • sharron

    good morning – i just want to say that orijen has to be the best dog food lexee has been on, – for the past 4 yrs i have been battling trying to get that extra lb off of her. have tried many weight loss, moderate calorie and whatever else is out there to no avail. a big thankyou!!! to those you have helped me many, many times over the years – she’s only been on orijen for a week and what a difference i can see in her body shape. – she still weighs the same but doesn’t have the little saddlebags anymore.
    again, thankyou!!!!!

  • sharron

    hi bc – a big thank you

  • theBCnut

    Not Shawna, but I think it’s a good idea to do blood work every year on our pets. They can’t tell us when something is wrong and it’s a good way to find out early on about many different problems. Even if your dog is young and healthy, doing blood work will give you a “normal” baseline, if she needs blood work for something later on.

  • sharron

    hi again shawna
    do u think it’s a good idea for lexee to have blood work done to make sure that her kidney and liver are ok – her annual check-up is next month

  • Betsy Greer

    If you’re willing and able, I’d choose Answers and/or Aunt Jeni’s.

    Orijen is a very good product, but it’s still a processed kibble with an awful lot of ingredients. If you have a dog with a sensitive system or possible food intolerance, fewer and fresher ingredients might be best.

  • Antonio Fisher

    I can believe that the dog lost weight eating the Orijen, those are the type issues I had with my dogs eating brands like Evo. The high pro/ low carb had my dogs underweight but I didn’t want my dogs to lose weight I need feeds that help maintain weight easily and so far my carb eating dogs don’t have a problem with getting too hungry between meals.

  • Guest

    Hi. I was wondering if this is a good brand if I want my dog to GAIN weight.

    I have a Siberian Husky and used to feed him EVO. It started giving him diarhea so we switched him over to Kirkland’s Nature’s Domain. Although his stools improved, he started losing weight (around 5-7 Ibs). I think this may have been caused by the much lower protein content in the Kirkland brand compared to EVO, since his blood work, urinalysis and physical exam all came back normal and he is still incredibly energetic (your typical Sibe). We tried switching him (slowly) back to EVO, but the diarrhea immediately returned.

    Is Orijen a good option at this point? I am also considering a raw food diet but it would need to be a commercial formula, since my sister and I do not have the time to make homemade raw food every day (law school and med school-UGH!) I’m thinking Answer’s or Aunt Jena’s.

    Any recommendations/suggestions would be appreciated!

  • AlieCat08

    Hi. I was wondering if this is a good brand if I want my dog to GAIN weight.

    I have a Siberian Husky and used to feed him EVO. It started giving him diarhea so we switched him over to Kirkland’s Nature’s Domain. Although his stools improved, he started losing weight (around 5-7 Ibs). I think this may have been caused by the much lower protein content in the Kirkland brand compared to EVO, since his blood work, urinalysis and physical exam all came back normal and he is still incredibly energetic (your typical Sibe). We tried switching him (slowly) back to EVO, but the diarrhea immediately returned.

    Is Orijen a good option at this point? I am also considering a raw food diet but it would need to be a commercial formula, since my sister and I do not have the time to make homemade raw food every day (law school and med school-UGH!) I’m thinking Answer’s or Aunt Jena’s.

    Any recommendations/suggestions would be appreciated!

  • Shawna

    I think it should be noted, in addition to Sharron’s comment below, that Lexee JUST started Orijen last weekend and Sharron has reported already seeing an improvement in her weight (in less than a week)..

  • sharron

    hi – she is a 5 yr old yorkie/chihuahua.
    currently she is on orijen and weighs just a tad over 10 lbs – 10.3 lbs to be exact – would like to have her at 9.5 lbs (according to her vet)- she was getting close to the 11 lb mark – that’s due to the wicked winter – alot more snow than usual and cold – live in calgary alberta – so our walks were hit and miss – for the past 4 yrs she’s maintained her weight around the 10 lb mark except during the winter months when she seems to put on a few oz – i like orijen because i can feed her 1/8 cup for breakfast and that will keep her going until dinner and she gets another 1/8 cup – whereas other foods esp. the ones with alot of carbs in them don’t keep her full and she doesn’t like 3/4 of the food that’s on the market – believe me, i have tried just about all of them

  • Antonio Fisher

    Sharron, what food is lexee eating currently? Also what breed of dog is lexee? Is lexee currently overweight?

  • sharron

    just want to say that lexee gets 4-20 mins a day (weather permitting) – she is always hungry on weight loss foods even to the point of bringing up bile – which in turn made me feed her more which did nothing for weight loss

  • aimee

    “It’s just that grains (especially gluten ones) tend to be problematic for more dogs than do other ingredients.”

    Data please : )

  • Antonio Fisher

    Very good discussion and I feel I’ve learned a few things in the process. I think raw can and does work as I’ve seen working dogs eat a predominately raw diet and do well. One thing that those individuals showed me about the raw diet is that it requires time and planning and for the hard working dogs there is a nutrient balance that has to be supplemented at times. I’m not totally against new ideas I just prefer complete and balanced kibble it’s convenient the nutrient profile is complete typically without supplementation from the as fed AAFCO approved brands and it’s economical and the dogs have done pretty good on it. I also like the fact that many the old traditional brands aren’t as popular now as it keeps the cost down a bit LOL.

  • Shawna

    I TOTALLY agree with you about getting a sound dog from quality breeding being a huge first step!!!!!! I want a Pit bull again some day but I want it from a really good breeder not only for temperament but also because Bully breeds seem to have more allergic and intolerance issues.

    You may not see a huge difference in an already healthy dog but take a dog with issues, like mine who has had kidney disease since birth, and I do think you will notice those minor improvements even. If I feed her kibble for more than a few days off and on, she starts getting ill. The “quality” of the protein a kd dog is REALLY important. For reasons I won’t get into, I was feeding her small amounts of barley with her raw diet only to find out she is gluten intolerant and it MESSED her UP in as little as three months.

    I agree that not everything will work for every dog, I also have one that can’t tolerate poultry in any form (including pheasant, quail and ostrich). But I think poultry is a healthy food for most. It’s just that grains (especially gluten ones) tend to be problematic for more dogs than do other ingredients. However, potato seems to be problematic in quite a number of dogs too..??

    Good discussion!! Thanks :)

  • Antonio Fisher

    Yup genetic predisposition can often trigger many underlying issues over time. I try to monitor genetics very closely which is why personally I get dogs from a short list of breeders when I go after dogs. And while a pedigree doesn’t give you a guarantee that your dog won’t get any of the described illnesses above that some pets suffer it’s typically a common sense first start for me. I mean I could just be that 1 lucky fellow that has 3 dogs that are genetically sound not allergic to grains, protein glutens, etc., but I often believe it has a lot to do with my simple methods which have been around forever. I’m open to newer ideas, but I tend to go with the older, proven trends first. I like the concept of GF, gluten high pro low carb diets for those that need it. But I’ve went down that road and decided it wasn’t in the best interest of my dog’s personally. I had constant trouble balancing the weight/feed/diarrhea loose stools. So I had to find feeds that will accomplish what I needed for the dogs and I found grain inclusive, and many times corn inclusive feeds accomplished these goals. I know many companies rave this feed is the healthiest versus another feed, but none will make the bold claim that your pets will live longer eating the higher dollar feed versus the low end feed b/c there’s no proof. At the end of the day it comes down to logic and using what works, and ultimately that decision will be made by the owner as what the opinion of what BEST is for their particular dog. I have friends in our training club that feed everything from raw all the way down to $18 – 50lbs sacks of feed, but to tell the honest truth you can’t tell a difference in any the dog’s health, performance, and longetivity.

  • Shawna

    Something I wanted to mention but forgot — lectins in certain foods have been found to bind with insulin receptors in the body. If a susceptible person or pet is eating such food, exercising your way out of weight gain will be quite difficult.. :(

    I really like how this article breaks it down..
    “Sticky Proteins in Weight Management

    A very important and interesting feature of some lectins is their ability to mimic hormones. As one can imagine, this could contribute a
    significant impact on metabolism. The hormone insulin stores excess
    carbohydrates (glucose) as fat. It accomplishes this by attaching itself to the insulin receptor found on the fat cell. Under stimulation from insulin, the fat cell becomes more permeable to glucose, which would otherwise remain in circulation. With mission accomplished, the insulin hormone then disconnects to its receptor. In many people, lectins found in lentils, green peas, corn, potatoes but especially wheat germ agglutinin (WGA), are known to bind to the insulin receptor giving the fat cell the same message that insulin gives, namely to make fat. The lectin, however, due to a lack of feedback inhibition, remains
    indefinitely attached to the receptor giving the cell a constant message
    to make fat.20-25 This perhaps explains why many weight loss
    programs that include a moderate-to-high amount of carbohydrate
    (especially modern grain) fail.

    One other point with regard to
    lectin contribution to weight gain is the fact that lectins have been
    shown to block digestive hormones. WGA can bind to the receptor for
    cholecystokinin (CCK), a hormone involved in appetite control,
    suppressing its function.26-27 This essentially leads to an increase in appetite and impairment in the release of digestive enzymes.” http://www.vrp.com/digestive-health/digestive-health/lectins-their-damaging-role-in-intestinal-health

  • Shawna

    ” 45 to 54% protein in a raw diet is really moderate”

    I’m not sure what you mean by that? That amount is higher than any kibble based food. I think the only foods that might be higher are likely meat only canned foods? And then only if the fat content isn’t too high.

    I do agree that genetics and environment play a big role in health. But with genetics there is often a “trigger” that causes the genetic illness to manifest. Example — in humans potato (or nightshade plants actually) and gluten grains are known to cause rheumatoid arthritis (a genetic disease). The proteins (called lectins) in these foods can bind with the body (in this case joint tissue) and cause the body to mount an immune attack on the joint (actually attacking the lectin but the joint goes along for the ride). This only happens in genetically predisposed people (and likely pets) but it is the lectin protein that is the trigger (at least in some cases of rhuematoid arthritis). Celiac is a genetic disease but if the person never eats gluten foods the disease never expresses as another example.

    Food is also the “building block” of the whole body. I can build the body (cells) up and it can break they down. Example — in those that are genetically susceptible, a substance of dairy called betacasomorphin 7 (or BCM-7 for short) can express as diseases such as autism, schizophrenia, heart disease and diabetes. Gluten can cause a disease in susceptible people that manifests in symptoms of temporary blindness, stroke like symptoms and white matter brain lesions (aka brain damage). This is called gluten ataxia. Most people with gluten ataxia have no other symptoms that would indicate food as the cause — such as digestive issues. But again, if the food is not eaten “triggering” the reaction, the disease does not manifest.

    I do agree with you about the chain smoker and the health nut.. :) I’m mostly a health nut but it took 20 years to identify and understand why I was experiencing temporary and complete vision loss at just 12 years old and brain damage diagnosed in 30′s. It was the “healthy” foods I was eating that “caused” those symptoms in me.

    The Diamond Dog Food you were discussing in the other post has several ingredients with lectins that, in genetically susceptible people (pets), could cause disease.

  • Antonio Fisher

    That’s good information and I believe we can respectfully disagree as I lean toward the studies that show differently. I never disputed that higher protein/lower carb will not aid in weight loss. But weight loss can also be treated with exercise (which is often lost) for most dogs today. 45 to 54% protein in a raw diet is really moderate. That’s really like 2 cups of a average protein dry diet with 22 – 25g of protein per cup. I just find it interesting that all the current trends, research, etc, has still to proven solid documentation that proves the newer way of thinking actually increases the longetivity, health, otherwise verses the information that’s been around the past 30 years. I’m still of the older belief that genetics and environment will carry the dog a lot farther than most other denominators. Case in point many of us know a chain smoker that lived 100 years and a health nutt that’s dropped dead prematurely. Again I think your method can work as it works for you, but I will continue my approach as it works for me that’s the good thing about this site we can express our opinions and still learn from one another :)

  • Shawna

    PS — Sharron’s dog Lexee has only been on a higher protein food (Orijen) since last weekend and has already lost weight per Sharron.

  • Shawna

    That’s actually quite incorrect. There are current studies that show even couch potatoes utilize higher protein diets quite well.

    Example — this research paper in the Journal of Nutrition studied higher protein diets in dogs and found that high protein diets help with weight loss better than higher carb diets.

    “Weight Loss in Obese Dogs: Evaluation of a High-Protein, Low-Carbohydrate Diet” http://jn.nutrition.org/content/132/6/1685S.full

    Here’s another “High-Protein Low-Carbohydrate Diets Enhance Weight Loss in Dogs1,2″ http://nutrition.highwire.org/content/134/8/2087S.full

    And NO, high protein absolutely does not damage the kidneys. My eight year old nine pound dog has had kidney disease since birth. She has also eaten a raw diet with 45 to 54% protein on a dry matter basis and will be eight years old this coming June. Kronfeld and other researchers have proven protein does not cause kd. Nor does it contribute to the disease once the disease is in process.

    Carbs are the only macronutrient not required in the diet of a dog.

  • Shawna

    No, high protein foods are not damaging to the body be it a young toy breed puppy or a large breed senior or anything in between.

    I have eight toy breed dogs (a four pound Chihuahua, 2 five pound Pomeranians etc) that have been eating diets higher in protein than Orijen for more than nine years. One of mine has even had kidney disease for eight years (since birth) and is eating the same high protein food.

    BUT, eating the same food for life is not a good idea no matter what breed and size. Most, if not all, of the regulars here on DFA “rotate” foods. Most of us also use “toppers” which add even more variety to the diet. I think Orijen is a GREAT food and I feed it to three of mine (with toppers) but no food is perfect. Variety allows for a more complete nutrient profile.

    Adding moisture rich foods to the diet is helpful with digestion and more as well. Canned foods, berries (as treats are great), appropriate left overs etc. Veterinary Nutritionist Dr. Meg Smart says it best in my opinion. She says
    “Variety is the Key (My conclusions after over 30 years of teaching veterinary clinical nutrition)

    Do not be afraid to add variety to your pet’s diet. Variety in the diet can include healthy table scraps (not leftovers often laden with salt and fat), homemade diets, kibble, canned, freeze-dried and dehydrated foods. Variety keeps a pet from becoming fixated on one diet with a special flavour. Variety also gives you flexibility in choosing pet foods and a selection of available foods while on vacation or when someone else is looking after your dog. http://petnutritionbysmart.blogspot.com/2012/07/practical-advise-on-feeding-your-dog.html

  • Antonio Fisher

    The increase intake of water helps remove the excess protein (urination) & bowel movements).The average dog isn’t doing the type of activity typically required of animals that consume and utilize the higher protein intake in it’s diet. The average wild dog or large cat (Lion, Cheetah) etc, often go days without a meal and travel miles to get that meal while the average pet today sleeps comfortably on the sofa waiting for it’s owner to bring a prepared meal. Think of it this way, the office worker needs far less protein and fewer calories than a world class athlete. A normal healthy body will excrete the excess protein, but if the animal has a compromised immune or organ issue that hasn’t been diagnose and can’t excrete the higher levels of protein into waste then yes it can cause problem to the kidneys and overwork them until kidney failure sets in. In most research it’s been confirmed that the average dog typically doesn’t require more than 21g of protein per cup in any feed for maintenance levels “dogs being hunted, worked, or otherwise and that number will vary”.

  • Shawna

    Morning Sharron :)

    It may be that Orijen has less sodium then the food she was on before. This could be a reason for drinking less.

    I’m not sure why your vet stated that high protein diets require a higher intake of liquid. Some vets feel that protein contributes to kidney disease. This myth has been proven false but that could be a reason for the vets suggestion.

    This university website states that higher protein diets requires “slightly” more water due to needing to remove “waste products created by the extra protein”. http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclopedia/content.aspx?ContentTypeID=1&ContentID=1499

    This is somewhat true but the “quality” of the protein makes as great of an impact on how much waste product is left as does the quantity. A higher protein animal based food could create the same or less waste than a poorly designed lower protein plant based food as an example. This gets a bit technical. I can explain further if you would like.

    Edit — processing of the original food (be it animal or plant based protein) also creates a potential risk for more waste products. Again, a bit technical so I won’t explain further unless someone asks.. :)

    That said, dogs eating KIBBLE (be it high or moderate protein) should have liquid with the meal to help with digestion. The stomach needs some water to properly create hydrochloric acid. Hydrochloric acid activates a protein digesting enzyme called pepsin in the stomach which helps to break down the proteins in the food. For this reason, it is a good idea to add a form of liquid to the kibble before feeding. It can be warm water, broth, kefir etc.

    Those feeding canned foods and raw foods already have moisture in the food and this step is not necessary.

    So add some liquid to the kibble (not too much though) and if able let it sit for a bit to let the kibble soak the water up. This will help with digestion too as it will make it easier on the stomach to break the kibble apart allowing for quicker and potentially more complete digestion.

  • sharron

    hi shawna – i was told by a vet quite sometime ago that if i feed a high protein food that i have to make sure she drinks more water. i’ve noticed since lexee’s been eating orijen that she hardly drinks – should i be concerned about this – thanks

  • theBCnut

    Annamaet, Nature’s Variety Instinct, Nature’s Logic, Brother’s Complete.

  • neezerfan

    Try Farmina N and D. I just got some from chewy.com

  • sharron

    hi – what is another dry dog food that is just as good as orijen – she doesn’t like blue buffalo wilderness

  • Shawna

    Yes, absolutely go by what you feel and see versus the scale (even if you see an increase on the scale). The reason is — high protein helps lose fat but at the same time it helps build muscle. Muscle weighs more than fat so the scale could stay the same or go up even while the body condition is improving. Good muscle tone is beneficial so this is desirable.

    I’m glad she is doing well on the food!!!!! Once she is a bit balanced and you know amounts that work etc, you can try adding some different, but similar, foods to the diet and see if she likes them too. :)

  • Hater & Molly’s Mom

    Currently we are feeding Molly, our beagle, Wellness Core Grain Free. I want to start rotating her food and i decided on Orijen. She usually eats1 cup a day of the Wellness and a tablespoon of canned food twice as day as a topper. I read that Orijen is a more richer food than the Wellness and you should feed less. She needs to loose 5 pounds so should i feed her less of the Orijen? Maybe just 3/4 of a cup a
    day along with the canned topper or should i just cut out the canned food until she looses some weight? Thanks in advance!

  • sharron

    hi – lexee has been on orijen since the weekend and everything is going well — you can see her shape has changed for the better but she is still
    showing that she still weighs the same as she did before going on orijen
    i know she has lost a few oz – you can feel her ribs more easily – should i just go by the way she looks rather than what the scales are telling me
    thanks

  • Amy Huynh

    My 8month old malshi (maltese/ shihtzu) is currently eating this right now. I noticed h that orijen is very high in protein… I’m looking for a long time food brand for my dog, something I can feed her for years. After a while would the protein be too much for her? I’m worried about the protein level in orijen. Please help! Shes currently eating the puppy formula from orijen.

  • sharron

    hi john – what do you feed for the other half of your dogs meals – what kind of dogs do u have?

  • John Mips

    I don’t see what this has to do with Orijen’s dog food. If you’re really going to buy food based on personal beliefs instead of the quality of food then ask yourself if you’re really fit to care for another living being.

  • John Mips

    I have 9 dogs that eat orijen for half of their meals and a few are getting old now. No one is acting funny yet if ya know what I mean.

  • theBCnut

    My 13 lb JRT eats just under 1 cup of a food with a similar calorie count. Just goes to show that metabolism is a big factor in how much food each individual dog needs to eat.

  • sharron

    hi – it was the six fish i started with – but now she seems fine – she was good last night and today – no issues
    such as vomiting or runny stools

  • Lara

    Wow I feed my 20lb Shih Tzu mix, 1/2 cup a day and he is still 1lb overweight. He gets plenty of exercise – runs, walks, play time. It is also important to note that he doesn’t have any thyroid.

  • Lara

    Sharron, you are switching her over too fast. When switching a food you must do it VERY slowly. Feed only 10% Orijen and 90% her original food, do this for 2 days, the next 2 days do 20% Orijen and 80% her original food. And so on …

    If you continue switching her 100% every time you try it, she will get sick. Some dogs are very sensitive to food changes, obviously yours is.

    I would have went with Orijen Six Fish, I know dogs with very bad intolerance that can tolerate Orijen Six Fish.

  • sharron

    thanks shawna – we are doing well on the orijen – no upset tummy and the poops are good

  • Shawna

    Morning Sharron,

    There is really no scientific proof that quality fats in foods cause pancreatitis, at any level. Once the pancreas is inflamed however some forms of fat can cause worsening, even dangerous, symptoms.

    Nutritionist Mary Straus has some good info on her website. Here’s just a small portion of it.
    “Pancreatitis is often blamed on high-fat diets, though there is little scientific evidence to support this. Active, working dogs, such as sled dogs, can eat as much as 60 percent fat in their diets without developing pancreatitis, but too much fat may cause trouble for middle-aged, overweight, relatively inactive dogs, who are the ones most commonly affected by pancreatitis. Too much fat can also cause problems for some dogs with chronic pancreatitis.” http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjpancreatitis.html#causes

    Not all agree but some vets like Dr. Karen Becker believe that feeding diets too high in carbohydrates stresses the pancreas due to the high amounts of the enzyme amylase that has to be produced. These vets feel that this stresses the pancreas and causes the initial inflammation that is to become pancreatitis (pancreatitis is simply inflammation (itis) of the pancreas). Dr. Becker writes

    EDIT — I copied the wrong data from Dr. Becker’s article — this is the revised correct info I intended to paste initially. Ughh “As a holistic veterinarian, I don’t think it’s a fluke or happenstance that the pancreas has become more and more attacked as an organ. We know that the high carbohydrate-based diets that most dogs and cats eat are extremely taxing to pets’ insulin levels, which are, in turn, taxing to the pancreas.

    In addition, the foods that we feed our dogs and cats are entirely processed and devoid of natural enzymes, which help supplement your pet’s diet and reduce pancreatic stress. So, the pancreas really may live in a state of chronic inflammation and stress because the average American pet diet is dead (processed at high temperatures to create an extensive shelf life) and is therefore devoid of any naturally occurring amylase, lipase and protease enzymes that would naturally be found in raw foods. The canned or kibble (dry food) diet that you feed your pet causes the pancreas to have to secrete an abundance of digestive enzymes. If the pancreas fails to perform adequately, pancreatitis results.” http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2009/12/16/dont-let-this-organ-ruin-your-pets-life.aspx

    Too much fat in the blood (hyperlipidmia) is also a known cause of pancreatitis BUT it has been known for decades that too many carbs in the diet can cause hyperlipidmia. NOTE — Triglycerides and cholesterol are the fats found in hyperlipidmia.
    “It has been known for decades that low-fat, high-carbohydrate diets can increase plasma triglyceride levels” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11082210

    Certain medications can cause pancreatitis too. Mary discusses some in her article I linked to.

    Rancid fats are believed to cause pancreatitis as well. Rancid fats have many negative affects on the body so I don’t see why inflammation to the pancreas wouldn’t be one of them. Omega 3 is a very delicate fat and my guess is that the trend to include this delicate fat in our pets kibbles is causing some behind the scenes damage, including pancreatitis.

    Some beleive that a condition called vaccinosis due to over vaccinating is causing different kinds of damage to our pets. Including damage to the pancreas http://www.beeholistic.com/vaccinosis.html

    If fat alone was a cause of pancreatitis there would be a whole lot more raw feeders seeing pancreatitis in their pets as raw feeders feed diets with the most fat. Yet LOTS of vets and pet owners feed and recommend raw.

  • theBCnut

    Certain breeds are predisposed to getting pancreatitis and unfortunately the breeders don’t educate their clients before selling them a puppy. Other cases of pancreatitis are caused by dogs getting in the garbage and suddenly getting something that they are not used to. It is possible to be on a food long term and develop pancreatitis, usually chronic rather than acute, but it is much, much rarer.

  • sharron

    good morning – just curious as to why there seems to me a lot of dogs getting pancreatitis – i have read that it can be caused by feeding high fat foods – lexee is on orijen

  • Shawna

    Absolutely!! Good or not, we are interested in the results! I know several who can’t tolerate the legumes in Orijen so if it doesn’t work don’t stress.. Hopefully there is another food of the same or similar quality that will work.. Fingers crossed!! :)

  • sharron

    got it!!
    thanks again – will keep you posted on how it’s going, if that’s ok with you –
    you as well as the others are god sends

  • Shawna

    Don’t be sorry!!! :)

    It is VERY common to hear that dogs on “better quality foods” need less than on foods with more “fillers”.

    Additionally, each dog is different and estimated calories is nothing more than a guess and may be very inappropriate for one dog while being right on for another. Example — I have two Pomeranians, one is 9 and weighs 5 pounds. The other is 12 and weighs 5 pounds. They were both spayed at around one year of age. The 9 year old gets .9 ounces of food twice a day while the 12 year old gets 1.5 ounces twice a day. That’s almost twice as much food as the 9 year old gets. The 18 year old 4 pound Chi gets 2 ounces twice a day.

    There are other factors that can influence the calorie requirement as well. Such as how well the dog is able to digest the food. This is dependent in part on how much hydrochloric acid is produced in the gut, if sufficient amounts of enzymes are produced, if good bacteria is in the gut and so on.

    If the vomiting stops and you continue using Orijen than watch to see if she still seems hungry, if she’s losing to much weight / gaining weight etc. If so you can increase or decrease the amount as needed.

  • sharron

    sorry but have to ask this – i just figured out that feeding lexee half of a 1/8 cup which is 1/16, 3 x a day that works out to 87..5 cals/day – that is feeding the orijen regional red which has 468 cals/cup – 87 cals seems really really low – or is it the food that makes a difference – thanks

  • sharron

    thanks shawna
    will give orijen another go – just gave her some – counted out 1/8 cup, it holds 30 pieces, gave her 20
    thanks again for all your help – really appreciate it

  • Shawna

    Got it!!

    Other than you get the food from the vet, I don’t know what you are feeding so my comment is in general not specific to the vet food you fed.

    Some foods add “flavor enhancers” to make the food more palatable. This is likely pretty common in foods that use, what many of us consider to be, inappropriate amounts of “filler” type ingredients. These flavor enhancers can be addicting. Can literally be physiologically addicting. These same flavor enhancers can also cause healthy issues down the line. One form of flavor enhancer, called MSG, has been shown to cause heart disease, lupus, diabetes, brain damage and more.

    Although not all agree, some folks, including vets, feel that foods higher in carbohydrates, when fed consistently, contribute and even cause disease.

    I would try the Orijen for another day or two and if she’s stilll vomiting then I’d give up on it. Make SURE you are feeding her less of the Orijen then you did her previous diet though. If she was getting 1/8 cup of the other food 3 times per day then give her just under 1/8 cup 3 times per day.

    Also, try to find three or four different brands of foods all in the same protein/fat/carb range and “rotate” between the foods.

    PS — my 18 year old 4 pound Chihuahua eats foods that range between 45 and 54% protein and has eaten this way for 9 years. The Orijen Mike rates here on DFA has 42% protein. A specific dog MAY have an issue with higher protein foods but “small” breed dogs in general absolutely do not.

  • sharron

    hi – i just want to say that i didn’t word my comment about what food to feed her properly – my problem is really me – l’m confused – i guess i am trying to find the perfect food that she likes and will eat and not pack on the lbs – she likes the food from the vet clinic but i listen to too many people that say it’s not good and i can do better – of course i can feed her better food but if she doesn’t like it and refuses to eat it what am i supposed to do – been told to leave it in her dish and she will eat it when she is hungry – well she is hungry and refuses to eat it – then she starts bringing up bile – do i ignore that and still leave the food in her bowl hoping that she will give in and eat it – i do appreciate all the help i get from this site – i really like orijen but do i keep feeding her the orijen hoping that the vomiting will stop

  • dchassett

    IMO you should never feed your dog a food just because everyone else is feeding it. A lot depends on how your individual dog is doing on the food all the while researching what are the potential long term effects of the ingredients in the food you have picked to feed your dog. That is why a lot of us rotate proteins in a brand and also rotate brands. In doing so you will insure (as best as possible) that your dog will be receiving truly a nutritionally balanced diet over the long hall. The problems that arise in feeding a food that your dog doesn’t vomit on or have diarrhea and feeding it long term doesn’t insure that it will not do some long term damage. I like the occasional drive thru fast food, cakes, cookies, ice cream, what have you. Could I eat it every day for a while, cause it doesn’t cause me any vomitting or diarrhea, I’m quite certain that if that is my diet it will eventually catch up with me. Maybe not now but eventually. That’s why rotating proteins and brands is best.

  • Shawna

    I thought your problem with her was a little extra weight? If weight is the issue then higher protein will be beneficial and is why I supplied supportive research and suggested Orijen, Nature’s Variety and similar foods.

    Of course, if the legumes in Orijen are causing a sensitivity or intolerance reaction than it is not the right food for Lexee. Nature’s Variety (which has no legumes and is higher protein) may be a better option. Or Nature’s Logic which uses millet etc.

    I thought I read you were feeding 3/8 cup per day of the old food too? Maybe I misread or am forgetting. My memory is not what it used to be :)..

  • sharron

    hi – yes gave her 3/8 cup – 1/8 cup 3 x/day – that’s all she wanted – this is just a general question – when it comes to dry dog food, doesn’t it come down to what your dog does best on rather than what everybody else is feeding – my problem is finding a good food that she will eat

  • Betsy Greer

    Hi Sharron,

    In addition to all that Shawna mentioned, I was also wondering if you could give Lexee a boost digesting the Orijen if you gave it a whirl in the coffee grinder before feeding. Make sure to measure out her portion before grinding.

  • Shawna

    Switching a food cold turkey, if the dog is not used to switching foods, can cause adverse reactions. The vomiting could be because of too fast a switch.

    That said, some dogs are going to have issues with the legumes in Orijen. Vomiting is a symptom of this type of sensitivity.

    Vomiting can also be caused by overfeeding. Because Orijen is more nutrient dense than many other foods it doesn’t require as much per feeding. Did you adjust the amount you were giving her?

  • sharron

    i don’t know what happened to my reply to you
    will do it again – lexee, during the night, brought up everything she ate, which was just the orijen, she didn’t eat anything else – she still in bed – is orijen not suitable for her?

  • sharron

    hi scarlett – lexee brought up during the night what she had eaten – all she had was the orijen, nothing else – does this mean she can’t tolerate it

  • Scarlett Casale

    Did u just start feeding it cold turkey? Or are u weaning it into her food? Any time you change cold turkey, you are going to most likely really upset their stomach. It’s pretty hard on them even though u may not see it. For future reference (if you didn’t do this), you want to do 1/3 new and 2/3 old for 3 days, then 50/50 for 3 days, then 2/3 new and 1/3 old for the last 3. Since you are already feeding this food, if it’s still happening after 3/4 days that’s not normal and try to change them back (the weaning won’t matter at that point). Hope this helps

  • markalaw

    That’s right, but certainly not more than that. And that’s only when we have a good exercise regimen going….5 mile+ walks, sometimes 10-15+, plus normal romps with her “buddies” in the yard or park. During less active cabin fever days, it’s as low as 3/8′s cup each feeding. She’s a typical Cavy in that regard, I think; she’ll go as long as I can go and she can usually out do me on walks.

  • Betsy Greer

    2/3 cup twice daily for an 18 pound Cavalier seems like quite a bit. Are you certain that’s how much you’re feeding?

  • sharron

    hi and thanks for your reply
    lexee is about 10.5 lbs and i’m feeding her 3/8 cup a day – that amt puts her close to the calories she is supposed to get (according to her vet) around 200 cals/day

  • markalaw

    Soft even runny stools were not uncommon when I first switced my Cavalier to Orijen, but then I found that I was feeding her too much of it. I was feeding her the same amount of kibble as her prior food. I suggest you consider feeding on the basis of calories required, as directed on the bag or on Champion Pet Foods web site. It took me about a month to find the right level so be patient. My Cavy is modestly active and at 18 lbs gets 2/3 cup in the morning and 2/3 cup in the evening. I rotate monthly among the three Orijen flavors.

  • sharron

    hi – started lexee on orijen yesterday – today her stools are soft – is this common and will it firm up eventually – thanks

  • sharron

    hi – just a quick question – is it common for dog’s stools to be soft when you first start feeding this food – she been on it since yesterday
    thanks

  • Meg

    http://truthaboutpetfood.com/orijens-canned-response-or-supporting-a-canned-hunt-farmer

    Very sad that Champion would potentially take part in this…

  • http://www.TAPF.com/ Barry Collier

    This is why I certainly admire to companies that use Alltech ingredients. Shout out to Victor, Evangers, Nutrisource and Natures Logic. Hopefully other brands will follow.

  • LabsRawesome

    Hi mrsbelley, the organic or natural form of Selenium is found in
    Selenium yeast. That is the best kind, and the ingredient you want to
    see listed. Sodium selenite is inorganic, doesn’t do the animals body
    any good, and is actually harmful.This video describes the difference
    between (organic) Selenium Yeast and (inorganic) Sodium Selenite. http://www.alltech.com/news/videos/share?bcpid=1248610498001&bckey=AQ~~,AAAAxJd5W9k~,Dxg-pcegyMU2LHSeJIn3DZeK1hrxbGMt&bctid=1065830253001

  • tdog

    Okay so Orijen did respond. Dchassett, my pup is a medium sized mutt. Here’s what they said:

    “The calories and fat in the puppy diets are the right amounts for puppies, as puppies require more energy than adults we recommend that when feeding an all life stages diets you increase the amounts fed. The amounts to increase are on the bags besides the feeding chart.
    Yes you can feed your puppy the Adult diet next and can try one of the other diets like the ORIJEN 6 Fish or the ORIJEN Regional Red. We do recommend rotating the diets. Rotating the diet helps to avoid the development of allergies, the vast majority of allergies are things that build up over time and with constant exposure.
    There is no right or wrong way to rotate. Some people rotate after each bag or couple of bags and some a couple of times a year. ”

    So sounds like there is no difference, except that the feeding amounts on the puppy food bag are for puppies.

  • Freeholdhound

    When I first got Harry he had problems with gunky ears & infections. I had him on NB LID Venison & Sweet Potato. Fast Fwd a few months & after having allergy test run (after a ton of unsuccessful food trials) it turns out he’s intolerant of both venison & sweet potato. Haven’t fed either since & ears haven’t been a problem.

  • theBCnut

    Having yeasty ears is not necessarily a sign of being sensitive to yeast at all. It is a sign of food intolerance though, but It could be and intolerance to any ingredient that has protein in it. My dog is intolerant of chicken, many grains, and tomato, but it’s the tomato that causes him to get yeasty ears. He handles any dietary yeast without problems. Save ingredient lists and compare foods that don’t work against foods that do and you will figure out which ingredients she is reacting to.

  • LabsRawesome

    Hi mrsbelley, the organic or natural form of Selenium is found in Selenium yeast. That is the best kind, and the ingredient you want to see listed. Sodium selenite doesn’t do the animals body any good, and is actually harmful. The best explanation I have found, is on a video on the Victor dog food site. ( I found the video on Youtube, but it is in Spanish or something, could not find it in English) Anyway, go to the Victor site and click the link that says “Sel Plex click for video” it is on the right side of the page, if you scroll down a little, from the top. victordogfood.com

  • mrsbelley

    Does anyone know how much of an impact the selenium yeast in this recipe would have on a dog with yeast sensitivity? My 4-yo boxer pretty much has ongoing ear gunk, and other foods have made her feet itch something crazy. I know it’s the last ingredient on the list, and therefore probably won’t have much of an impact, but I don’t know enough about it to know how it might affect her. For what it’s worth, I think one of the foods we’ve fed her in the past had dried brewer’s yeast, which is probably a very different beast – it could just be that variety that caused her feet to itch so terribly, but again, I don’t know enough about that aspect.

    We’re currently feeding her Natural Balance L.I.D., and will be stopping that as soon as I find a higher-quality replacement. I’ve been feeding her and my shepherd mix that brand, rotating the proteins, for two years, and just found out its rating dropped to 2.5 stars on this site. Yikes!

  • markalaw

    I’ve been feeding Orijen to my Cavalier King Charles Spaniel for nearly 5 years. I can report no problems and even my vet is happy with the results.

  • sharron

    i’ve posted this question under a another topic – is orijen suitable to feed a toy breed dog (yorkie/chihuahua) – currently she is eating acana light and fit – thanks

  • dchassett

    God, how awful! I totally missed all that. As I said, there are some seriously messed up, creepy, mean people out in the world. I just never would have expected that on a dog food site that we are all seriously trying to help each out with. Baffles the mind. At least my mind anyway.

  • theBCnut

    Yeah, the funny thing is, they posted seriously wrong info. Go figure. There is another person around here with almost the same name as me, different middle name, I’m probably related to her husband some generations back or something. I have always wondered if she got crank calls or something.
    I think the nut(lower case) suits me just fine. Oh, if you people only knew…

  • theBCnut

    I liked using my name. I felt that it showed I was not hiding behind anonymity and trying to steer people wrong, unlike some, but it backfired.

  • Crazy4cats

    A few months back, there was someone who kept posting your name, address and phone number. I kept flagging them and they eventually disappeared. It’s too bad people don’t have something better to do. Anyway, I think the Nut suits you just fine. LOL!

  • dchassett

    Wow! So sorry that happened to you. OK so theBCnut you are. Some people are so creepy and mean. I’ve often wondered if I was wrong in using my actual name. I thought about it after I did it and then just figured, ahhh what does it matter. Well,I guess it does matter.

  • theBCnut

    I have no desire to hide from my loved ones, :-) but I definitely started having problems because of my name floating around. Enough that I regretted using it in the first place, so now I’d rather be the nut.

  • theBCnut

    I should have known!!!

  • theBCnut

    Dogs are not born with allergies to particular things. The reason chicken allergies are so common is because chicken is an extremely common ingredient in dog food.

  • shihtzumom

    Hi Vinny! I would say you could try it and if it works for your dog add it into a rotation with Fromm! I believe the 6 fish and Regional red are chicken meat free, but may have eggs. I love Orijen and their company but I cant say for sure it will work for your fur baby! My dog loves 6 fish and he isnt a kibble fan! If cancer is a worry you may want to avoid kibble in general. A more species appropriate diet (raw would be the most species appropriate, then freeze dried which Orijen makes but it is expensive and high in fat) may help decrease your dogs likelihood of getting cancer. Other options would be a dehydrated food like the Honest Kitchen or canned dog food are much better than kibble!

  • dchassett

    Thanks C4C for the confession. In referring to the “Nut” I try to remember to specify “Hey Patty, I don’t mean you, just a nut out there” so I was afraid I’d forgotten. I’m sure I probably have somewhere along the line since she changed her name. Even in my head when I read someone referring to some random nut I think “No, Patty, I don’t think they meant you”.

  • dchassett

    Funny. Everytime I refer to someone as a nut, or a real nut in speaking personally with friends or family I think of you. Not as “theBCnut”, but as Patty. A couple of others have also recently changed their names on this site, like you, I only know it’s them because the avatar is the same. You’ve started a trend. You can’t hide from your loved ones so I guess you, in particular, can change your name as often as you’d like, We’ll find you.
    Love ya, Patty.

  • Crazy4cats

    I confess, it was me!

  • vinny

    I have a Golden Retriever (My fourh), this breed has a problem with chicken allergies but I’m sure although high in the breed a case can be made on an individual basis. With that said, I am using Fromm Four Star Nutritional Duck and Sweet Potato trying to avoid the allergy issue as much as possible, cancer is very high in the breed.

    Would you rate this better for my breed or would you leave well enough alone based on my thinking. My dog seems to love the food currently.

  • theBCnut

    I get a kick out of it too. But when you referred to me as “the Nut” somewhere yesterday, I wanted to reply “No, that’s someone else. I’m the nut, lower case.”

  • dchassett

    Hey Patty. I still chuckle every time I have to refer to you as “the nut”. Heehee!

  • dchassett

    Actually Lara, theBCnut is absolutely correct. Puppies need special formulas, unlike seniors that do not. Tdog did not mention what breed or mixed breed her dog is. From all that I have picked up on on this site and others, large breed puppies have very specific needs that small puppies do not. Full disclosure, I don’t nor have I ever had, a large breed dog but I believe it has something to do with not wanting the large breed puppies bones too grow too quickly (?). Also to do with calcium levels. Not sure but I have read that it’s important.

  • Lara

    Perhaps my wording was off. What you said is what I meant. Almost all high quality kibbles are all-life-stages, including Orijen. Not all these foods boast the all-life-stages status, but most are, if the correct research is done. In the case of Orijen, it is a means of marketing. With low quality foods, a puppy formula maybe needed for extra protein, fat, and vits/minereals.

    Hope this clears things up.

  • theBCnut

    Not true of some adult foods. Puppies don’t regulate their mineral uptake until they get older, so they need the right amount to be provided, neither too much nor too little. That is the point of Growth and AllLife Stages foods. Adults can eat puppy foods for life, but puppies should get Growth or All Life Stages foods. And large breed puppies have their own unique needs.

  • Lara

    I pay $80 for a 28lb bag, it lasts my two small dogs over 4 months. I usually pick up a medium (15lb) bag for $50, and that lasts over 2 months. The bigger bag is a better deal but lasts too long at our house, I like to buy it fresher.

    It is cheaper because I feed considerably less Orijen than I would a cheaper brand. So if I feed less than 1/3 cup of Orijen, I might have to feed 3/4 cup of a lower quality brand. PLUS, no unnecessary vet bills in 11+ years because my dogs are extremely healthy.

  • Lara

    For marketing. Most people think their dogs need a “puppy” food. There is zero problem feeding any of their “adult” options to your puppy.

  • dchassett

    theBCnut is absolutely correct. Just like companies will market a Senior diet. Marketing. A way to make money. There is no need for any other this.

  • theBCnut

    Some people think they have to buy a food that specifically says puppy on it so Orijen gave them one. That is marketing.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Marketing.

  • tdog

    Does anyone know why Orijen would distinguish a “puppy” variety if all the adult foods are “all life stages”? Is there something special about the puppy variety or is it all just marketing? I emailed the company but haven’t heard back yet. I’m considering feeding my 9 mo. old pup one of the “adult” varieties.

  • barrie c

    try mixing in a few slivers of carrot in with her dog food…abreeder suggested this as my puppy had the same problem..worked wonders for him!!

  • Mary C

    Try sprinkling cayenne pepper on feces. Bring your dog out on a leash for a day or two and keep him from the feces until after sprinkling the pepper, then allow him to sniff it.

    I doubt the type of food makes much of a difference regarding coprophagia.

  • theBCnut

    Maybe I’m missing something here, but I would have sworn I said “Probiotics are found in feces. That doesn’t make them bad.” not I eat feces. Your leaps of “logic” are astounding. But yes, I eat probiotics and I give them to my dogs too. You would die without probiotics, yourself, unless you’re a bubble boy. They are huge part of the immune system. Just because something is found in feces doesn’t make it feces, BTW. Think whole kernal corn. Then go treat yourself to a cup of yogurt or a glass of kefir.

  • losul

    I guess I can say this much, rhymes with Moe and had been going on for weeks on numerous boards.

  • Shawna

    Thanks Losul.. Yep, probably best left alone :)…

  • Shawna

    From the sounds of the entire four part series it was his life studies and he was right in the center of it as a parole officer (I think it was). Did you see, err hear, the part about the “baker miller pink” room. Incredible!!!

    Losul’s comment below inspired me to look up the original comments (at least to me). In my “Disqus” folder on page 19 I found the convo. I think I was replying to a post to Losul regarding the following statement made by another poster — “Meat causes more aggression than potato”. I could have worded my post better I’m sure :)…

  • aimee

    The interplay of nutrition and behavior is of great interest to me as it combines two passions.

    I have found though that one needs to be extremely cautious in interpreting data. When one dietary component is lowered another is raised.

    I really need to see the actual study, how the groups were chosen, how the behavior was defined, was it blinded etc. etc. etc.

    I did watch part of Nutrition and Criminal Behavior and no references as to where I could find the original studies : (

  • losul

    Hi Shawna, I could repost what you were replying to, I remember near verbatim, but I think it wouldn’t be proper since my posts were deleted when the original poster was removed.

    No one wants to suffer all that antagonism again and the aftermath. So I think best to just to let sleeping dogs lie.

  • Shawna

    I don’t recall what the original post I was replying to said (or the thread for that matter). I’m not sure how my comment related to that post. But the data is pretty clear based on studies done on inmates, hyperactive children etc that a reduction in certain carbohydrate foods improved the conditions and symptoms, one of which is aggression. I will note that in most cases sugar and sugar producing foods were limited but supplements were given as well.

    Did you see this data in the linked article.

    “Food allergies and hypoglycemia are linked (adrenal effect) [5]

    Leading foods for allergy

    Milk (juvenile offenders drank more milk)
    Wheat
    Corn
    Coffee
    Eggs
    Potato
    Peanuts
    Soy”

    Did you watch the supplement video/s “Nutrition and Criminal Behavior”? Very interesting.

  • aimee

    I can see if you have “reactive hypoglycemia”, then limiting carbs, esp high glycemic ones would be important to controlling your condition.

    For me it is a colossal leap from an effect of a carb on an individual with a metabolic condition to “those that eat the highest amounts of potato tend to be more aggressive and combative”.

    I just don’t see it at all.

  • Shawna

    If someone has hypoglycemia ANY food that causes blood sugar spikes is a potential trigger. I suppose I should have worded it, potato can trigger a hypoglycemic reaction in a susceptible person.

    However Neurosurgeon Dr. Russell Blaylock describes potato as “a very powerful hypoglycemic” in his lecture “Nutrition and Behavior”. It’s about an hour long. You can watch it on Youtube as well as other sites. He does have a transcript, if preferred, featured on the below linked site. He writes

    “Dr Ralph Bolton studied the Quolla Indians in Andes of Peru, known to be very aggressive. Found that:

    55% of male population were hypoglycemic

    Main diet was mostly potatoes (a very powerful hyoglycemic)

    Docile males had a normal blood sugar” http://1phil4everyill.wordpress.com/2008/11/20/dr-russell-blaylock-nutrition-and-behavior/

    PS — both my grandmother and my mother have lost consciousness due to a hypoglycemic attack in the past. My grandmother passed out on the sidewalk in front of a restaurant during a family vacation at Yellowstone National Park when I was a child. I was never that bad. My mother’s blood sugar declines so slowly that she doesn’t often, if preoccupied, realize it’s happening and my father has found her passed out. Pretty scary!!! My grandmother’s (deceased now) and mine drop VERY rapidly — enough to make us feel ill and know it’s going to happen if we don’t get food. My husband can tell (“by the look in my eyes”) that it’s going to happen even before I know and will order me to eat something. Actually, I don’t seem to be hypoglycemic any longer but when I was that was pretty common. I think MSG, and stress, factored in to my susceptibility.

    In order to prevent blood sugar drops we limited foods that cause insulin spikes. I now know, due to my intolerance/sensitivity, that the casein protein in dairy products was a definite factor in my hypoglycemia as well. In that respect, the potato lectin, in those susceptible, may be an issue as well?

  • aimee

    What specifically makes someone susceptible to hypoglycemia from potato consumption and why is it specific to potato?

  • Shawna

    It’s actually a pretty simple concept Ray.. Potato is capable of inducing hypoglycemia in susceptible individuals. And I can tell you from experience that a symptom of hypoglycemia is rage. And with rage comes aggression.

    Aggression can also be a symptom of food intolerances and allergies. And the lectin proteins in potatoes are a potential allergen for some.

    Beta-casomorphine-7 in A1 dairy products has been linked to schizophrenia and a symptom of schizophrenia is aggression.

    Aggression can also be a symptom of ADHD and foods can be a trigger for that as well.

  • Crazy4cats

    Oh yes, this is such a nasty habit. Has her stools changed. Are they not as digested on this food as they used to be? Is she hungrier? My dogs eat stools also, but don’t seem quite as obsessed about it as yours. (knock on wood) She must really love this food! lol! There are so many so-called remedies and none have ever worked for my dogs. Maybe you should switch foods at least until the snow is gone so you have more control over keeping it cleaned up and more of an idea of how they look. Sorry, I can’t be of much help. I just wanted to give you some sympathy because I know how gross it is.

  • Ray Schroeder

    Orijen was great handling mine. I purchased the largest bag from chewy.com and when my dog couldnt keep it down i contacted orijen directly to inquire about any issues, they forwarded me to chewy.com and chewy handled it perfectly – I think orijen had contacted chewy right before I finally did, because they didnt give me a single problem and acted as though they already knew.

  • Ray Schroeder

    I’m an engineer and taking a scientific approach to any “test” results, I highly doubt you can correlate a consumption of potatoes to aggression in any animal. That kind of claim just makes anything else that person said just plain ole bull crapola. In the age of disinformation – dont believe everything you read on the internet!

  • Ray Schroeder

    so you eat feces then, is what your saying? Personally, if I wouldn’t eat it – I dont feed it to my dog. And yes, ive tried their dry dog food haha

  • Ray Schroeder

    search for some of that powder stuff you sprinkle on their food to stop that. My rott did the same thing when she was a pup – i used the powder stuff and it worked like a charm after a week or two

  • Msams0975

    Depends on where you live. It’s been $80-90 for the 28lb bag where I live.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    Did you read what I said, Benny? I’ll write it again here:

    As you correctly stated, “… I would bet [legumes] are used at least ten times more by weight than alfalfa.”

    I acknowledged you were correct.

    In any case, you are a guest here. And there’s no reason for you to be rude or sarcastic.

    I believe you’re not here to have a civil conversation but to simply argue. Please respect our rules of courtesy or create your own rating system on your own website.

  • Benny Simpson

    It is a good thing. It has lots of good qualities and nutrition. Who cares if horses and cows eat it. Dogs, wolves and other canines eat grass normally.

  • Benny Simpson

    Please read what I wrote Dr. Sagman. I said that legumes are at least 10 times the amount than alfalfa in pet food. That is what I said and what I said is 100% correct and you are 100% incorrect. If alfalfa is used at a maximum of 1% and legumes are used around 15%, is that not 15 times the amount? In some foods, legumes are 20% of the food. You should reconsider your “red flag” system because it not accurate, highly misleading and unscientific. You don’t “red flag” Licorice Root in Orijen but that ingredient is widely known to be toxic and should only be used for short periods of time. This substance has been banned in many countries and not allowed in even candy. That is fact.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    You said, “Lentils and chickpeas have far more protein per gram and I would bet are used at least ten times more by weight than alfalfa.”

    Unfortunately, the accuracy of your claims is factually incorrect.

    Once moisture is removed, the dry matter protein content of most legumes is typically between 23% and 30% — very similar or slightly higher than that of alfalfa. Yet surely nowhere near the 10-fold figure you claim.

    However, hay is not typically fed to dogs (or humans). So, it is to most pet owners, more controversial than legumes. So, it is red flagged on this website.

    What’s much more important here is where on the ingredients list we find these items.

    As you correctly stated, there’s typically much more legume by precooking weight in a dog food than there is alfalfa. In fact, this item is typically found much lower on an ingredients list than legumes.

    So, there’s always much less alfalfa in any recipe than legumes. So, it almost never plays a significant role in our ratings.

  • Crazy4cats

    Hi Dr. Mike-
    What about organic alfalfa, such as what is in both Merrick Classic and Grain Free dry foods? Sorry, but I thought I might as well bring up now while on the subject! It actually looks like to me that a lot of foods contain it. I’m guessing this is probably not a good thing?

  • Benny Simpson

    Then by that logic you should highlight in “red” all legumes like lentils, chickpeas, peas and things like flax as well. Lentils and chickpeas have far more protein per gram and I would bet are used at least ten times more by weight than alfalfa. I have asked this question myself to some companies and they say lentils, field beans and chickpeas are as much as 15% – 20% of the foods by weight on a dry matter basis. Alfalfa is generally 1% or lower. It is impossible for alfalfa to represent much protein. My statement is fact whether you would like to agree with it or not is a different issue. The reason it is put in dog and cat food is mostly because of its high level of Vitamin K and other micronutrients. Alfalfa being used for other feed purposes is totally irrelevant in this case. Flax is used to make paint and varnish. Clay in some foods is used in cat litter and industrial clean-up products but you don’t mention that.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    Sorry, Benny. Unfortunately, I cannot agree with your statement.

    Although it is only rarely used to make dog food, alfalfa is fed to horses and other livestock as an important source of crop based protein.

    It is only rarely used to make dog food

    Using this scientific reference published by the University of Nebraska, on a dry matter basis and depending on the maturity of the plant, alfalfa contains somewhere between 18% and 28% protein.

    Like any ingredient containing that much protein and depending on its relative position on an ingredients list, alfalfa is indeed a plant-based protein booster. And must considered when using a food label to estimate the meat content of any recipe.

    So, for these reasons, alfalfa deserves to be highlighted in any analysis, no matter what company makes the food.

  • Crazy4cats

    Thank you, but it was actually Benny that caught it. It is definitely a non-issue for me! Keep up the great work.

  • Benny Simpson

    “Alfalfa Meal – the aerial portion of the alfalfa plant, reasonably free from other crop plants, weeds and mold, which has been sun cured and finely ground.” Here is the proper definition.

  • Benny Simpson

    I meant it wouldn’t make much of difference to the protein if Alfalfa was used or not. Typo in my above statement.

  • Benny Simpson

    The correct AAFCO definition for alfalfa products includes the term “meal” it just means it is ground up. I don’t agree that it used as a booster of protein because the amounts are so tiny. It would make much of a difference. Would using less than 1% alfalfa meal really add much protein?

  • Benny Simpson

    Because it is on other foods. I find it silly that it is too because it is a very healthy addition to food and its used in such small amounts. It is loaded with Vitamin K.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    These two ingredient terms are not the same.

    One text string includes the phrase “sun-dried alfalfa” whereas the other indicates “sun-dried alfalfa meal”.

    In any case, although the meal version typically contains a slightly more protein than plain alfalfa itself, they’re both high enough in this macronutrient to merit special attention as plant-based boosters.

    Thanks again for bringing this oversight to my attention.

  • Crazy4cats

    I wondered this too and looked at Natures Variety Prairie dry and it shows red on that review. Looks it is spelled the same.

  • theBCnut

    Why should sun-cured alfalfa be red?

  • Benny Simpson

    Dr. Sagman, don’t forget “sun-cured alfalfa”, it should be red as well.

  • Kim Hyun Yoo

    how much is Orijen?

  • Msams0975

    I switched my springer spaniel mix to orijen about 2 months ago. She was first on adult dog formula and is now eating regional red. She was eating merrick grain-free pork before this, and solid gold barking at the moon before that. Ever since I switched her to orijen, I noticed she is REALLY into eating dog poop. She has done it since I got her at 4 months old, but now it’s become an obsession. She will sit at the back door all day and the second you let her out to potty, she runs around the yard as fast as she can, devouring any piece of stool she can find. It’s disgusting! I scoop the yard every other day but I live up north and we’ve had tons of snow lately so I haven’t been able to scoop. She digs through the snow to find the poo! It’s insane! What does this indicate? Is orijen not working for her/is something missing?

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    Thanks for posting this reply. It is 100% correct. In Canada and other English-speaking areas, the word in question can be spelled either as “fiber” or “fibre”. Both are acceptable,

    However, our software was not “aware” of these two spellings. So, it only mark red flagged one of the spellings.

    Thanks to Benny’s comment and your reply, I’ve now corrected this error.

    Regarding why the text explanations differ: this is because the 800+ reviews here are updated on a continuous 18-month edit cycle (unless we’re tipped by a reader of a recipe change.

    So, we’ll update each description with the newer version as we get to each review in the process.

    Benny, thanks for calling this issue to my attention.

  • Tiffani Hallan

    Get his liver and kidney enzymes checked. this food is very high in phosphorus, and for some dogs, processing it out of the body causes lots of drinking and peeing. I’m not a fan of Champion foods because of how poorly my guys did on it. Yet, everyone makes it seem like a bright, shiny star. Good luck!

  • theBCnut

    Some ingredients fail to get tagged by the software because they are spelled differently so the software fails to see them. Dr Mike tries to fix these things as he finds them. Going down to the “Contact Us” link and letting him know would help.

  • Benny Simpson

    Not that I agree with Red Flagging “alfalfa meal” and “pea fiber”, but why aren’t these noted as “controversial Ingredients” in the Orijen review and only one noted in the Acana review? Several other reviews note these and actually negatively comment on them but not in this one. This review also down plays the substantial un-split level of legumes. I thought this site was supposed to be unbiased? This food has lower animal protein content than other foods of similar protein. That is quite obvious.

  • Shawna

    Yikes, ten dogs!!! I never intended to have eight, just kinda happened :).. Mine are all small and toy breeds so the food bill isn’t outrageous. Not great but not outrageous either..

  • Clove

    I’m trying to switch my ~6 mo old Sato (PR street dog) puppy to Orijen dog food from Royal Canin. At first, yesterday, he seemed to favor the orijen side of the bowl over the RC side. So I mixed them in well and he ate the whole thing. But starting this morning, he’s ignoring it altogether and not really into eating unless I leave the plate for a while. I started to put pieces of Orijen kibble and RC kibble out on the floor and he still seems to favor the O, but doesn’t seem to trust it and has to taste it a few times before chewing it and it seems he’s still slightly ignoring the RC. However, I would imagine, he would be able to tell the different between the two by smell, no? Why wouldn’t he trust the O when presented? Is this type of behavior normal when switching to a new food?

  • Castlin

    I have 10 dogs!! Orijen is great!

  • Shawna

    I have 8 dogs!! I know how frustrating it can be.. At least you were able to find high quality foods for ALL of them!!!

    PS — I LOVE Pit Bulls and all the bully breeds!!!! Grew up with a Staffie.

  • Tracie

    I have 5 dogs.. my pit bull is allergic to pork and rabbit so my choices are slim. The only thing that they seem to tolerate is fish. My other 3 dogs are still on RAW but the two with allergies are on Orijen and since it’s working I will continue to use it.

  • Shawna

    I’m not knocking Orijen or suggesting you go back to raw — but, there are lots of choices beside beef and chicken. I have one that can’t have beef bone and one that can’t have any poultry (including duck, ostrich etc). Instead I feed Bravo lamb, Primal Venison and Rabbit, Darwins Buffalo, Answers Pork etc.

    Really glad you found a good quality food that works for your pup!!!!

  • Tracie

    My American bulldog has severe allergies. My dogs have always been fed the RAW diet. He developed an allergy to chicken and beef. Those that are educated on the RAW diet know these are two of the main ingredients of the RAW diet (particularly red meats but I use chicken as my second protein source). I had to switch to a kibble after 15 years of feeding RAW. After much research I chose Orijen 6 Fish since it didn’t contain any chicken or beef. My dog no longer itches, turns red and all his hair has grown back. I never thought I would feed my dogs kibble again but Orijen changed my mind completely :)

  • Anna

    I would like to suggest adding pictures to the names of dog foods so they are more easily recognizable. This would be a great feature to your web site. Also if you were to add in sections about best all natural dog food, easy to read list (highlighted list of each product) of why other brands may be better and what they have that other don’t. This would be valuable for people to make a quite decision about certain dog foods. I do like your section for the highest rated grain free dry dog food. Very nice!
    I just started with Halo dry dog food and think it will be great!

    Also is there a reason why you don’t compare prices as well? This would be such a great help! Thanks!
    Love the website idea!

  • Bailey

    I have a 4 year old Border Collie with severe food allergies – allergic to eggs, chicken, turkey, duck, pork, etc. I feed him Orijen 6 Fish and no more problems. He loves it and is thriving on it. I think his coat looks better. I also only provide treats that are fish based and do not contain any items he is allergic to, and are wheat free. I’m not a fan of mixing up the protein anyhow (fish for his meals and beef treats). The 6 Fish does smell, but it’s worth it because I know he is healthier. I order it on-line and love the auto-delivery.

  • Cass

    Seemed like just a lot of flaxseed when I first tried a bag. I like Nuptro much better. you can put it on dry or add a little water to it to make it into a gravy – its great.

  • Cass

    Never had a problem with this food. Love the 6 Fish. My sister says it stinks but I like the smell of fish and I think my dogs coat looks really shiny and his skin really improved when I was feeding it.

  • jackc

    I had a Dalmatian back in the late 60′s. I don’t remember the food but he had problems with his joints swelling up with the fur falling off. The vet at the time felt it was a food allergy and suggested that we go to canned Alpo. At that time it was advertised as 100% meat (of some type). Bottom line his joint problems went away when we changed to the canned Alpo. As time goes by I really wonder if was an allergy to the corn/wheat bases used by most dog foods today. My son just adopted a Beagle/Golden Retriever mix who is on Hills ZD prescription due to swelling and irritation around her anal area. The shelter did not investigate as to the cause but the food did help. We are planning on slowly migrating her over to Origen Senior. In looking at the ingredients we noticed that the Hills ZD had no corn or wheat. I’m hoping that the Origen will provide the same results.

  • Gert

    This nsote is nmanmnipulated

  • Gert

    People get deleatedd on sis nsite left and rfight

  • Pattyvaughn

    Probiotics are found in feces. That doesn’t make them bad.

  • Shawna

    Per the below attached research paper certain “strains” of the bacterium can induce disease while other strains health promoting.

    “Specific genetic lineages of hospital-adapted strains have emerged, such as E. faecium clonal complex (CC) 17 and E. faecalis CC2, CC9, CC28 and CC40, which are high risk enterococcal clonal complexes….. Some E. faecium and E. faecalis strains are used as probiotics and are ingested in high numbers, generally in the form of pharmaceutical preparations. Such probiotics are administered to treat diarrhoea, antibiotic-associated diarrhoea or irritable bowel syndrome, to lower cholesterol levels or to improve host immunity. In animals, enterococcal probiotics are mainly used to treat or prevent diarrhoea, for immune stimulation or to improve growth.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21962867

  • kilshark

    enterococcus faecalls, otherwise known as fecal bacteria found in the intestines of humans and the cause of many infectious diseases. Why on earth is it put in pet food.

  • Gertygrtygrtyy

    Patty could not make it in real life and is a bad wife

  • Gertygrtygrtyy

    Mi4ke the dentis4t acts like an aprentice

  • Gertygrtygrtyy

    And chew you up like vanilla

  • Gertygrtygrtyy

    Mike4 from virginia will turn into a gorilla

  • Gertygrtygrtyy

    If you challenge the groupies they will turn into booties

  • Gertygrtygrtyy

    Hounddog is very young with a sharp tongue

  • Gertygrtygrtyy

    Shawna is a liar liar pants on fire

  • Gertygrtygrtyy

    If you tell the truth they mistreat and delete2

  • Gertygrtygrtyy

    They lie about the studies and act like buddies

  • Gertygrtygrtyy

    The host deleted valid posts

  • Gertygrtygrtyy

    They sell you so much m4eat with deceit

  • Gertygrtygrtyy

    He blocked the vet who made him s4weat

  • Gertygrtygrtyy

    They m5ock and block6 around the clock

  • Gertygrtygrtyy

    I wonder why I did not li4e

  • Gertygrtygrtyy

    They are bullies no hullies

  • Gertygrtygrtyy

    Iwas proving the very high p4rotein diet wrong and was singing a song

  • Gertygrtygrtyy

    I wonder why I did not lie5

  • Gertygrtygrtyy

    This website1 is a scam who put us in spa5dm

  • Cavalliieer mmoomm

    I was bullied and blocked on here and they deleted my posts after I have proven them wrong on their 35-54% protein ideas. I also busted Shhaawnas cliam that her kidney disease dog would not be on medication whatsoever like she repeatetly said. I have to misspell the names otherwise I end up in spam. She tried to claim on wellness comp her dog is not on medication but one day later admitted it is getting vanine renal support. When confronted aboit their bovee kronfeld study she and hounnddoogg deliberetly misconstrued where a 50 % protein diet lead to kidney damage, glomeric lesions. That means these dogs may live but with a poor quality of life.

    The hounnddog and her lied about the textbook that stated to increase protein from 18-26% not to 35% or 50% like they falsely claimed. Now you would not know my side of the story after shaawwnna paattyy and hoouunddog emailed each other they flagged me and got my posts deleted for untrue reasons totally
    made up.
    I could name you thousands of people they blocked or deleted unfairly

    Their high protein diet theory doesn’t hold up in true science theyll miscpnstrue studies or quote flwed studies by Purina