[spaniel39]

Kibble is carbs???
Yah, I guess it is if that’s what you feed your dogs! lol
Benful, alpo, old roy
yes, dogs were not meant to have grains/carbs!
Meat!
Have you ever heard of Orijen, Wellness Core, Acana
I do brush my dog’s teeth which most people find it hard to do, but not time-consuming!
Well, keep doing what you’re doing, Grizzly Adams, and feed your wet food and throw
your dog a bone!
As KIM pointed out, no need to be rude!

[spaniel39]

Hey Kim,
Not a good idea to:
And since I’m not HDM, I can’t help Kim N by saying feed the dog canned and brush its teeth. Problem solved.

I think I have another email for HDM and will try to get it for you!
I can tell you’re really concerned for your Pup and want to do the right thing.
My best friend is a top vet in chicago. Having dinner with her tomorrow and will
ask about this for you.
Also, you mentioned difficult or “failing” at brushing teeth?
Are you using a brush (tooth)
Actually, I just got some (flavorful) new toothpaste and some “finger scrubbers”
for my babies.
Will be trying it tomorrow
Again, do NOT feed your baby only wet food. Her teeth will rot
Enjoy your evening and weekend
Best
Michael (AKA Spaniel 39)

[spaniel39]

Hi,
I have a Komondor-Hungarian sheep dog
16 months and 120 pounds
I had asked HDM (not that long ago if you want to look book a bit)
as I could not find ANYTHING about when to stop watching the calcium intake
of large/giant breeds.
Even my Vet didn’t know
She wrote back that doesnt’t matter after reaching Adult size.
I don’t go overboard and give her anything like 2.5 calcium, etc
But thankfully that stage is over!

[spaniel39]

UHMMM
Fromm is great. But I think you have the wrong Forum; not that HDM or anyone else
would not be happy to assist you, but with all due m respect, this is the
Large/Giant Breed Forum; Our dogs at birth weighed more than yours now!

[spaniel39]

Hi, Kriste
I had such problems with my baby Komondor and runny/loose stools
(she’s 1 1/2 years now) and have posted before.
Anyway, I strongly suggest grain free and the one food I had great success with
(and not too expensive) is Nutrisource Large Breed Lamb, great food and perfect
calcium/phosphorous levels

Michael

[spaniel39]

Hi, Mom
Happy Labor day to you et all.
I started a new topic a while ago but no one responded <g>
My big baby Sophie the Komondor is now 18 months old and of course has been
on low calcium/phosphorous through all her puppyhood and young Tween months.
Bone structure/density/skeleton perfect
Some of the new foods I’m considering are higher in calcium/phosphorous so that’s
my question (and I can’t find anything online at all).
Once full grown, is the calcium /phosphorous levels important.
Some of the foods I’m interested in are around 2.0/2.2%.
Thanks!

[spaniel39]

hey Mom, I had a post and needed your advice-Thank you!

Hi
HDM et all
My sophie the Komondor is now 17 months old and I’ve switched her large breed puppy
food to Adult large breed, still with the lower calcium and phosphorous levels
around 1.4 calcium and 1.0 phosphorous
But I can’t seem to find any information on if I can feed them higher levels once full grown
and adults. I have 2 springer spaniels and even though I rotate their diets, would like not
to have to get so many different kinds of dog foods
is 2.2, etc too high a cacium level for an adult large breed? Does it even matter.
The spaniels are doing well on Wellness Core Ocean (and great stools) and would love
to put Sophie on that
Thank you all
Michael (and Sophie and Samuel the Spaniel and Charlotte)

[spaniel39]

Hey
HDM
I’m not sure my last comment/question went through. please advise
I’m well familiar with the leve of Phosphorous/Calcium levels of growing large
breed pups . My baby Sophie the Komondor is now 120lbs at 16 months;
At some point, I want to switch her food, but as an adult (aroun d 20-24 months)
do I still need to check calcium levels or can she eat just about any adult kibble
right now, she’s on foods that are under 1.3 calcium and under 1.0 phosphorous.

Thank you

[spaniel39]

I’ve had great luck with Nutrisource Large breed Puppy Lamb and also the adult formula
I didn’t realize (years ago) that lamb is relatively easy to digest by pups, even more so
than chicken/pork/beef

[spaniel39]

Hi, mom <g>
You might remember I have a Big Komondor Girl, Sophie, now 120 lean pounds and
16 Months old. I’m the one that discovered the calcium miss labeling on Canine Caviar.
Anyway, Sophie is on Nutrisource Large Breed Lamb and she loves the Fromm Beef
(Frittata) I’m mixing in with it.
Anyway, I trust your judgement of course, But I thought even as full grown adults
(with the komondor, 18-24 months), still had to watch the calcium levels.
Not taken in by industry advertising, but of course all the “adult” large breed formulas
marketed by companies
Anyway, so once full grown, doesn’t matter? Calcium levels over 2 % and more ok.
Good to know. I supplement with green beens, some fruit (she can smell a blueberry, her
favorite, a mile away, stole my banana from the counter today, etc etc etc)
But for her staple dry kibble, would be nice to rotate inexpensively (for me, under
$55 for a 25 pound bag), and if calcium levels not an issue in a future, more choices
of course
Thanks
Michael (and Samuel the Spaniel and Sophie)!

[spaniel39]

I have had great luck with Sophie my 120 pound Komondor on
Nutrisource Large Breed Lamb (she was on large breed puppy previously but now
she’s 15 months old).
It gets great reviews and reasonably priced especially compared to Orijen or Acana.

Before that, she did well on canine Caviar Lamb Puppy dinner but was very expensive
plus they had a labeling problem, where there was a misprint on the bags showing
the puppy formula calcium level over 2% and did nothing about it
(Oh, the food inside is ok, we just need to use up the bags!!!)
Another good one I used but don’t anymore is Artemis’s Osopure Duck and garbanzo beans
but the big bags are $70.

Personally, not into the “raw” diet for my pups;
I do supplement their diet (have 2 springer spaniels also) with a very lean
Hamburger or turkey burger—cooked—once a week or 10 days.
They love green beans, blueberries, cooked spinach.
It’s great to supplement with veggies, etc

GLTA!

[spaniel39]

Mimi, thanks
My Sophie is so sweet too; I knew the importance of socialization given the protectiveness
factor as an adult and I think I went too far.
If she sees anyone walking towards her or across the street, she will sit and “smile”
and wait to greet them. Impossible to take her/walk her anywhere lol
but I don’t mind, She is just starting to form her “cords”
I didn’t read your post carefully. Sorry, didn’t realize you had been on raw.
I found it much too expensive and kibble has come a long way (Acana, Orijen, etc)
and you can always supplement it with a tablespoon of a good canned lamb/duck/etc.
or in Sophie’s case last night, a big extra lean, Hamburger!
I forgot to mention Evangers!
They’ve done research for decades on large breeds
They have a meat lovers with Rabbit, not real expensive, my dogs loved!

[spaniel39]

mimi and William
see my post above yours.
NOW also has an adult formula
I learned the hard way (diarrhea, loose stools) that many puppies/dogs have a chicken
allergy and have stopped feeding it (the kibble, that is) to my dogs.
I have a Huge breed (Komondor) and 2 Springer Spaniels right now.
Lamb is easily digestible and my Komondor is on Nutrisource large Breed LAMB
I think it’s about $49 for a 30 pound bag
Acana Duck and Bartlett Pear is good and low calcium levels for the large breed puppies
although it is expensive.
It’s really trial and error until you find something that works
Oh, and also, I only use grain free, although there are some good foods with low
glycemic grains such as oats, millet, alfalfa.
Also, for diarrhea, I’ve used canned (unspiced) pumpin but find that a baked
sweet potato (with skin) is better

[spaniel39]

I feed my baby (sophie the Komondor) 130pound
14 months old
Nutrisource large breed lamb
about 1.63 pound
as you get a 30 pound bag
I went through so many and this is perfect
Gets 5 stars dog advisor also
Lamb meal, peas, pea starch, pea flour, salmon meal, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), potatoes, tomato pomace, natural turkey and chicken flavor, sunflower oil, potassium chloride, dried brewers yeast, salmon oil, minerals (zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, cobalt proteinate, selenium yeast), salt, choline chloride, taurine, vitamins (vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, niacin, d-calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement), glucosamine hydrochloride, tryptophan, ascorbic acid (source of vitamin C), chondroitin sulfate, yucca schidigera extract, calcium iodate, rosemary extract, yeast culture (Saccharomyces cerevisiae), dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Aspergillus niger fermentation product, dried Bacillus subtillis fermentation product.

[spaniel39]

Jason B
I now have a 1 year 2 month old 130 pound Komondor
I started her off on Canine Caviar Puppy Dinner (lamb)
but was pretty expensive
I had great luck with Petcurean NOW large breed puppy
Now Fresh Large Breed Puppy (5 stars)
But it’s not inexpensive at about $59 for a large bag.
NOW FRESH™ Large Breed Puppy food recipe is made with 100% FRESH turkey, salmon, duck & 100% fresh Omega 3 & 6 oils from coconuts and canola. NOW FRESH™ also features zero grains, gluten, wheat, beef, corn or soy. Zero rendered meats, by-products or artificial preservatives.

This recipe also features:

Calcium and phosphorus to promote your puppy’s growth
New Zealand green mussels to support hip and joint health
Added L-Carnitine to support heart health/fat burning
Pre + Probiotics to support digestion
Added Taurine to support vision and heart function

[spaniel39]

Hi, All
well, I finally heard back and I’m mostly convinced it was a labeling error
(but still perplexed when they caught it, why they would keep using up the older packaging with
the misinformation?)
They are sending me replacement bags (new with the correct information)
for the Large Breed Puppy Lamb Dinner.

[spaniel39]

It really does bother me that they don’t seem to care
Oh, we have this formula and we put it in bags that list a different formula but
oh well?
Not even apologizing.
should really contact the FDA or who else?
Is Dog Food Journal still around
Dog food analysis

[spaniel39]

Hi, AL
well, I received a reply from Canine caviar AND
(I had sent the info to Petflow/wag/Mr Chewey)
from Mr Chewey, who had contacted the company and received a reply that they forwarded to me.

Follow me?
I got a reply from Canine Caviar
I got a different reply from Canine Caviar that was sent to dog food distributor Mr Chewy
who forwarded it to me.
Sound good?
NOT!
Two different explanations and I truly believe some sort of cover-up
Not a very bright one as they have admitted putting the large breed food, into bags
that have different mineral (calcium/phosphorous) levels posted.
This is not minor.
A large breed pup fed a calcium level of 2.3 and phosphorous of 2 definitely
will adversely affect the pups health and growth and definitely cause skeletal
agonizing deformities (as any vet).
That is why the large breed brands have calcium no more than 1-1.3% and phosphorous
around .95-1%. There is a medical/scientific reason for this.
Anyway, both Mr Chewey and Canine caviar offered to replace my bags
(although it’s been 2 days and haven’t heard back from Canine, which is really irritating)
I mean, they know/knew about this and did not tell any of their distributors, no one!
What does that tell you?

[spaniel39]

Acutally, HDM, Black and tan and everyone/anyone concerned for their pup’s health and
companies who “may” mislead/mislabel
I would call the company for clarification as well.
I mean most of us believe what we read on packaging.
I did feed canine formula to my super sonic growing 4 month old Komondor,
but still was uncomfortable doing so.
What if the bags are correct and they made some batches with double the calcium and phosphorous?

[spaniel39]

Morning
I got the same internal service error but yet got an email from them that it was received.
In any case, I heard from someone this morning via email-dawn
HDM, perhaps you can call her. Here’s the email (and my reply)
Good morning dawn,
I did not receive any email(s) from you and not available today as traveling but
could call tomorrow.
I am also going to relay your number to a member of dogfoodadvisor.com
whom you can speak to
But basically, just want to be sure that the canine caviar large breed lamb puppy dinner is 1.3 calcium/1.0 phosphorous instead of the higher and dangerous levels
of 2.3 and 2.0 written on the bag

Thank you
Michael S Bosse
Chicago

In a message dated 7/10/2013 8:33:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time, DBarraco@caninecaviar.com writes:

Good day Sir,

I have not heard back from you so I wanted to write again in case the email did not go through.
Once again, I have spoke with our support group and read your email.

May we have a conversation as there are several clarifying questions that I have?
I am eager to address your concerns.
Feel free to contact me or provide a number where I can call you.

We do appreciate your suggestion and willingness to help.

Sincerely,

Dawn Barraco
714 223 1800 office
970 576 8775 cell
dbarraco@caninecaviar.com

also, HDM
my email is spaniel39
and I’m on AOL

[spaniel39]

I’ve tried to email them in the past and found them to have horrible customer service so I’m not expecting much.

well, we will see
feel free to write me at
Spaniel39
aol

[spaniel39]

Thank you and not being paranoid but I’m assuming it’s a mistake on the outside and not the
inside <g>;
that suddenly they somehow made a huge batch of 2.3 calcium/2.0 phosphorus dog
food by mistake. That would be disastrous

ALSO, I found another food I might try for variation that wasn’t on your list
◾Now Fresh Large Breed Puppy (5 stars)

[spaniel39]

Thanks Black and Tan and you are correct in that most dog owners are not very knowledgable
about dog food
But among the Holistic and “natural” brands (which are much more expensive),
most really are and have to be for large breed dogs (Komondor, Great Dane, etc)
Calcium levels and Phosphorous levels HAVE to be around 1.0-1.3
or crippling results due to excessive early skeletal growth occurs.
These levels of calcium and phosphorous are not even suitable for an average or small size breed.
This IS a serious matter; in fact the editor if Dog Food Advisor just wrote and advised going to the
FDA (which I’m not going to do. Let the chips fall where they may)

Hi Michael,

Thanks for your message and for posting your experience on our website. It’s frustrating how these companies get away with this. You may wish to also write to the FDA.

You can report complaints about FDA-regulated pet food products by calling the FDA Consumer Complaint Coordinator in your area:

http://www.fda.gov/Safety/ReportaProblem/ConsumerComplaintCoordinators/default.htm

Hope this helps.

Mike Sagman, Editor
The Dog Food Advisor

[spaniel39]

No, formula is exactly the same
they just mislabled the bags

[spaniel39]

Thank you HDM
I can’t seem to find the large breed puppy thread but definitely want to go grain free for Baby
Sophie. Her poop is now perfect as temporarily I decided to put her on the Spaniels’ diet;
mxiture of wellness ocean core and Nature’s Variety Beef. Also (for the spaniels) use
Acana Ranchlands and Grasslands.
I say temporarily, as the calcium and phosphorous levels are much too high but sure just a few
days won’t hurt
I ordered Canine Caviar Lamb Dinner with Venison (almost grain free) as it came highly recommended
we will see

[spaniel39]

Houng dog mom!
Morining
what grain free would your reccommend for my giant baby!

[spaniel39]

Thank you
I used fromm gold puppy food for my previous spaniels and they did well.
We’re beginning to think that she could have a poultry/chicken allergy.
I was really hoping the Artemis would work
For now, going to try Solid Gold Wolf large pup and I also ordered canine caviar which gets
good reviews, Lamb Dinner with venison

[Author]

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