[InkedMarie]

Jen,
Take a look at Dr. Tim’s. You’ll probably have to order online but a few of his formulas come into 40 and 44 or 45lb bags. Good food & Dr Tim himself is very helpful on FB and if you call, chances are he’ll answer or be the one to call you back.
Can I ask this? What happens if one of your Berners has issues & you have to spend more on food? Will your husband be on board? I know we all have budgets but sometimes, things happens and you can’t stick to that bidget. There aren’t many good foods at the $50 pricepoint.

[jher315]

Yes, obviously if we have issues we would figure it out. But spending $100 a month on dog food is something I would like to try and avoid – if possible. I have 3 kids to feed as well 😉 Our dog-show friends aren’t spending $50/bag on dog food as they have 4-8 dogs they feed a month and their dogs are doing great – so I know there must be options. I would probably consider going grain-inclusive because many of those are less expensive it seems like. I will look into the Dr. Tim’s that you mentioned – thank you!!

[CircaRigel]

I need to find a new food for Galen. He’s a 6-month-old Shiloh Shepherd puppy, training to be a service dog. Wellness has recently begun putting Green Tea Extract in ALL of their foods. Galen’s begun developing diarrhea from it, and I looked it up, only to discover that green tea can cause liver damage in dogs!!! I need to switch him IMMEDIATELY! HE’s been on the holistic select lamb and oatmeal formula, which I only just discovered is made by Wellness, and now includes the toxic ingredient.

[jher315]

Is there a reason Pulsar Pulses isn’t on the pdf list linked in this topic? It’s on the editor’s choice list and it’s grain-free plus meets the calcium requirements… It’s significantly cheaper than ToTW that I’m feeding now…

http://www.chewy.com/dog/horizon-pulsar-pulses-turkey-formula/dp/113593

Just wondering the consensus on this food if anyone knows…

[InkedMarie]

Obviously I can’t speak for all breeders but alot of the ones I know don’t feed very high quality food; thats probably why they are able to feed “a bunch” on not much money.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Jen-
I’m not sure if the Pulsar Turkey qualifies for a large breed puppy food or not. But, check out the large breed calcium calculator that Dr. Mike has posted on the review side of this site. If it does fit the guidelines, then make sure it is either a puppy or an all life stages food. It could very well be within the limits but not on the list due to just recently being more available in the U.S. I know when I first was checking it out, it wasn’t available here. It is now, however, as you pointed out. In fact it is what I’m feeding my two almost four year old lab mutts right now. So far so good. It seems like a pretty good value.

Hound Dog’s list has not been updated for some time now and there are most likely some changes that need to be made.

Good luck!

[aquariangt]

I believe that you have to call for exact #s on calcium in foods, as they are only required to report a portion?

[crazy4cats]

Yes, AGT, is absolutely correct. It would be best to call the company for more exact information. I guess I was just trying to get the point across that there may indeed be foods that are appropriate for LBPs that are not on “the list” and that there are other tools on this site that are helpful in determining whether a food is appropriate or not. But, yes, contact the company if you need more info! For sure!

[Pitlove]

Sorry to repost, but I never got an answer and I’m still really curious if anyone has info about this. I posted this one page ago

Hey guys,
was reading through the front few pages for some help with a question about pano. i kind of got most of my answer but i guess i still have some questions..heres the story
i work at petco as some of you know already and i had a customer today whos 5 mo lab has already been diagnoised with pano. her vet recommended a senior dog food that was low in protein because she explained that high protein can cause over growth in large breed puppies. i thought that sounded weird but i really didnt want to completely be rude and go against her vet (since im in a professional setting) but i did mention to her what i know from Hound Dog Mom about calcium levels etc. i read through some of the articles HDM posted and saw that the protein theory was debunked but some vets still hold on to that. why is that? lack of education about recent research or what? SHOULD a dog that already HAS pano be on low protein? or is that not true either? i guess i’m wondering if the low protein diet her vet recommended was because the dog already has pano and its no longer a matter of preventing it

[Randy K]

We have 4 month old Shiloh Shepherd and I’ve had her on Fromm Gold Large Breed Puppy and THK Embark/Love mixed in. I also add krill oil and occasionally ground lamb or a sardine and a couple times a week she get a frozen raw beef rib bone with meat on it for her teething so I think I’ve been feeding her ok.

I want to transition her to raw eventually and I’m trying out some of the Primal formulas to start with rather than jump into full force to start. I’m just using the freeze dried nuggets right now for convenience. My question is are the suggestions on HDMoms PDF still pretty valid and would the Primal formula suggestions on it apply to the freeze dried as well? I just want to assure I’ve got her on the right path.

Thanks for any help

[CircaRigel]

My Shiloh Shepherd is 6-months old. He recently switched to Fromm Gold and Canidae (both large breed puppy foods) for his kibble (and has been on Tripett for his canned food all along, as tripe is beneficial to digestion). I’ve gone over the suggestions of HDMom’s PDF, and most seem pretty valid even now. The main “premium” foods I’d shy away from at the moment are Wellness, Holistic Select, Old Mother Hubbard, and Eagle Pack. They recently began adding Green Tea Extract to all of their foods (they’re all made by WellPet), and I just don’t understand why, as a Pubmed search finds multiple research articles that show it causes liver toxicity in dogs. No way will I have Galen touch those foods.

[Randy K]

Thanks Belinda! I’d love to switch Totem to to fresh raw foods but I’m a bit overwhelmed by all the info. We do have a small local company that sources grass fed and organic meats and organs and bones so I may still try to do it. She did really well eating her first raw turkey neck chewing every last bit really well. She loves the Primal stuff and sings when I mix it up but I’m also going to give her the Fromms LBP food in rotation so I don’t miss anything important in her diet.

[CircaRigel]

Pitlove,
The protein theory HAS essentially been debunked. The best you can do for prevention of Pano is to keep your pup lean, and keep his growth slow and steady, with a low calcium/phosphorus diet. There has even been some recent argument that for large breed puppies, it may even be better to feed them an adult diet earlier, reducing the calories they’re getting as well as having a lower calcium/phosphorus content, but I’m awaiting word from a conference a friend is attending before stating that as fact.

[CircaRigel]

Ok, Just talked to my contact (Galen’s breeder), and at the seminar, the expert (who raises great danes) Pat Hastings states that the puppy foods are a bunch of empty calories, and does not advocate using them, especially with giant breeds. She advocates weaning directly to adult foods, provided those foods have the low calcium/phosphorus levels at approximately 1% and a 1:1 ratio, and supplementing with raw, if possible (Galen is supplemented with Tripett food… green beef tripe). I don’t have a list of foods yet, but Galen’s breeder will be sharing that as soon as it’s made available, so it’s up to the individual to make sure they have the adequate numbers. I’ll be calling Canidae today to find out what the Calcium and Phosphorus numbers are for each of the foods in Canidae’s Grain Free Pure line of foods. I reviewed some Grain Free Pure Land a while back, and was quite impressed, and like that there are only 7 key ingredients.

[Diana S]

I have read a lot of good things about Dr. Tims dog food. I have a 15 week newfoundland puppy and 14 year old pit mix that I am thinking of trying on his food. Anyone had a newf that they have on it?

• This reply was modified 8 years, 10 months ago by Diana S.

[Kristine B]

I just want to see what you all think of Eagle Pack Lg. and Ex. lg. Breed Puppy food. I really like it. http://www.eaglepack.com/product-dog.aspx#.VXH07XD3arV

[CircaRigel]

Given that Eagle Pack, Wellness, Holistic Select, and Old Mother Hubbard (all made by WellPet) recently started putting Green Tea Extract in all of their foods, which causes liver toxicity in dogs, I’d stay away from it. I took Galen off of Holistic Select because of that, especially when he began getting sick. He’s had no issues since.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 10 months ago by CircaRigel.

[Pitlove]

Belinda-

I do know about protein not being a factor for dogs where prevention is the key at the time. I was curious as to if this vet was recommending it due to the dog already having pano or if she was just misinformed and restricting protein for a dog already diagnosed with pano does not actually do anything.

[CircaRigel]

As far as I’ve been told and heard, including from my best friend, who’s a veterinarian, is that the only treatments for Pano are anti-inflammatories and time, and perhaps weight loss, if the pup is at all overweight for his/her frame.

[Cynthia R]

The google pdf calcium list almost 2 years old. I mention this because on the Editor’s Choice forum someone asked about Orijen Large Breed puppy, and it was not the google doc, but it is on the editor’s list of approved LBP food. I would double check all the foods on the list too since many companies reformulate over the years.

[apriliamille]

that petsworld link. please dont follow that to the T

[CircaRigel]

Agreed. A lot of those Petsworld foods and treats are definitely not premium and have alot of fillers your dog doesn’t need. As for Holistic Select, while mostly premium, it contains green tea extract… Wellness, Eagle Pack, Old Mother Hubbard, and Holistic Select all began putting it in all of their foods recently… but there’s a problem. I found a fair bit of research on PubMed that shows it to cause liver toxicity in dogs. Granted, the doses are higher and its worse if given in a fasting state, which wouldn’t be the case in food products, but I still wouldn’t want to risk my dog by touching the stuff.

Galen, my 6-month-old Shiloh is now on Canidae Grain Free Pure Sea for kibble, and Trippett (Green Beef Tripe, Tripe & Venison, & Duck Salmon & Tripe) for his canned food. I decided to follow the recent research that suggests giant breed pups may do best on an adult diet that has the low calcium and phosphorus, as it doesn’t have a lot of extra empty calories. I chose the Pure Sea formula because it has few key ingredients, the first 3 are meat and meat meals (fresh smoked salmon, salmon meal, menhaden fish meal), and is absolutely LOADED with Omega 3’s (brain food and excellent for the immune system, plus anti-inflammatory… perfect for a service dog in training like Galen, or a service dog). It also has the highest rating from Dog food Advisor, and includes probiotics and even some enzymes, like cellulase, which increases the bioavailability of polysaccharides as an energy source. The tripe in Trippett also contains digestive enzymes, which again is beneficial for digestion and increasing the bioavailability of nutrients.

Everything I feed Galen is for a reason. Even his treats, which are Sojo’s Simply Lamb… Only one ingredient- raw lamb, conveniently freeze dried.

[Lucia P]

I am new in the forum and a new owner of an 11 months old english golden retriever. This site is great source and there is a lot of info to digest. I don’t even know how to start with all this. I feel overwhelm with all the information.
I trying to figure out what is the best food for my puppy. I had the HDM’s list but still I don’t know how to start editing and deciding for options since all of them have good calcium and calories %s.
He was giving TOTW for a while but his stools got loose, them he was been feed with WHole Paws from Whole Food Market and he stopped eating. He used to love to eat and couldn’t wait to have his food in his plate but now, after he was 9 moths old his vet recommended to change his food from puppy to an adult food. My sister was the initial owner and she was so busy that never paid any attention of how to feed properly Blue (his name). She never made a transition, one night he had TOTW for a puppy and nexzt day he had food for adult. The first days were fine, he ate normal and his stools were loose, them he stopped eating after the fifth day of the new food and my sister changed the food and it has never been the same. He has food twice a day but in the morning he wouldn’t eat much or at all and them at night starving he will eat some. Now I have the dog with me and I want to do my best. I am new in the dog’s word and Im trying to educate myself.
Please, any help with recommendation of a great food for a Golden retriever, 11 months old would be much appreciated. In the HDM’s list are many 5 stars brands, how can I decide which ones?
I was thinking Blue was a picky eater and had a sensitive stomach but now reading this forum I realize that it is normal that he had loose stools since my sister hasn’t being consistent with the food, please help. I want to choose a couple of the 5 star rating food to alternate. Reading reviews the Earthborn Holistic sounds fine and The Honest Kitchen too. But to be honest also many others does. I don’t know what is the difference and all of them qualify in terms of nutrition. I have been with him for a week now and he is having California Natural which I don’t see in the HDM list. I didn’t think he like it because he wasn’t eating much and the Pet store recommended me to mix one pattie of Stella and Chewy’s Dandy lamb (because they were very yummy) and he will probably eat his food with it. He does but he tries to eat only the pattie and leave in the plate the rest of the food. Other Pet store close by told me that Health Extension was also a good option since he was picky eater. I don’t see this one either in the HDM list. Luckily he is fine so far and when he went to the vet last time, everything was fine. His hair is not shiny and he does shed a lot.
I know we can do much better than this. Please advice!

[Ashlee S]

I have a 4 month old male bloodhound named Boone. He’s been fed on wellness large breed puppy formula. He hasnt done well on wellness. His poop isn’t as firm as I would like. He’s been checked by a vet with no problems. Also keeping weight on him is really hard. He’s is pretty active throughout the day and plays alot. He’s of course gaining weight from growing but you can still see his ribs and he’s still pretty skinny. He’s fed 4 1/2 cups a day. I’m not sure what food to try next. There’s not many large breed puppy foods. I’ve been recommended blue buffalo but unsure about the high protien if it’s too much. I could really use help!

[InkedMarie]

Lucia,
I know nothing about large breed puppy food but I’d choose a food from HDM’s list and feed it. Add a probiotic. Do a very slow transition over a week. Keep him on this food for a couple months, at least. If you want to try another food, repeat.

Ashlee,
somewhere in this thread is a link to the list of approved large breed puppy foods. HoundDpgMom compiled the list; she has bloodhounds too. You’d do well to feed a food from this list. I have a hound named Boone too! He’s the pbgv in my photo here!

[kassie m]

I have a question that is probably silly, but I want to be sure. After a large breed puppy is grown, is it alright to feed them a food that is higher in calcium? I like Earthborn’s Primitive and it reads a min. of 1.5%. Should I have the dogs on a lower calcium food, or is it okay now that they are adults? Thank you!

[theBCnut]

Yes, it is ok after 8-10 month of age. Their body has the ability to only uptake the calcium needed after that.

[Tim M]

Here is an interesting read that my wife just found. I have not read everything but it seems to some good stuff.

http://www.reviews.com/dog-food/

[Jamie J]

Question for HDM and others that can might can help me out. I am new to this forum and new to the large puppy breed. We recently bought an American Bulldog. She is about 12 weeks old at 25 lbs and I have realized she has been on a poor dog food called Diamond Puppy because that is what the breeder told us to feed her. Can you recommend to me a good puppy food along with any other regimes I need to have her on. And also do I need to take her calcium intake once I get her on the correct food?

[CircaRigel]

Has anyone else experienced hemorrhagic gastroenteritis in their giant breed dog? My 7-month-old Shiloh Shepherd puppy, Galen, just had a 24h stay in ICU after developing the condition. Fortunately, he was seen immediately, for as a service dog in training he is always with me, so there was no delay in observing the symptoms. Plus the vet we go to, Alameda East Veterinary hospital (you might recognize them from “Emergency Vets” has a 24h ER, fully staffed 24h ICU, and can do all diagnostics in-house using the latest tech… so his diagnosis was extremely rapid. He still ended up requiring a plasma transfusion, and a fair bit more than the high estimate for his care addressed, but his recovery is coming along nicely. After that 24h in the ICU, he was able to come home.

What I wanted to see if anyone had any dietary recommendations about this, for when he’s able to resume his normal diet in a couple of days. He currently gets Canidae Grain Free Pure Sea kibble and Tripett canned food (Green Beef Tripe, Tripe and Venison, and Duck, Salmon & Tripe varieties). I also have pre and probiotics I can give him- increasing the dosage at the moment as he’s still on antibiotics (oral starting tomorrow, as he had IV until this afternoon). His Canidae also contains probiotics, and Tripett contains digestive enzymes.

He has every reason to NOT have developed this, as he’s not hyperactive, not a small or toy breed, eats top notch foods that are formulated with everything recommended for healthy digestion, etc… yet he still got it (I suspect it may be from either the goose poop he attempted to eat at the park Saturday, or the swim in a lake he took last week, but the cause of hemorrhagic Gastroenteritis (HGE) remains largely unknown).

At the moment, I’m nervous about anything that could effect Galen’s health. It’s pretty terrifying to see blood squirting out of my furbaby’s rectum as a purple jet. His vet highly approves of the diet I have Galen on, but I still would like to know what other’s think, and if anyone else has experienced this in a giant breed puppy that’s NOT hyper or overly stressed.

[ovcharka]

Does anyone know how to convert the calcium percentage to actual grams per 1000 kCals?

[Jarrett D]

Hello,

First of all, I want to thank everyone for their contributions to this forum. I’ve read through a ton of the pages and it’s been very informative.

My wife and I got a Husky/Malamute mix, Nisa, and she is now 11 months old. Currently, she is about 70 pounds, and still growing. We’ve fed her Canidae, Merrick, and Nature’s Variety. She seems to do very well with all dog foods, but I’ve been bred to change my dogs food every 2-3 months. This leads to one of two questions:

When should I stop feeding Nisa Large Breed Puppy food?

After she is no longer in the Large Breed Puppy category, is there another list or forum that discusses Large Breed Adult Nutrition, or can she continue to eat Large Breed Puppy?

Thank you in advance!

Enjoy the holiday and be safe!

[CircaRigel]

I’ve been informed of some recent studies that suggest that large and especially giant breed pups may do best if they’re weaned to a low calcium/phosphorus adult dog food at 8 weeks old, simply because the extra calories the puppy foods tend to be empty calories rather than nutrition, and any excess weight in a large/giant pup can lead to Pano. It’s better they get the nutrition over the risk of too many calories- especially empty calories. Definitely by 11 months old your pup should be fine on an adult diet, as growth has slowed and isn’t as rapid as the first 8 months.

[Jarrett D]

Thank you for the prompt reply, Belinda. So now we can just use the regular 4/5 star dog food review?

[CircaRigel]

That should be fine, as the body at that point will only use the calcium it needs. It’s early on, during the rapid growth phase, you need to watch the calcium levels and keep it controlled, for it’s not a race to reach the end-point… genetics will dictate that, and growing too fast during that phase can cause structural problems. By 11 months, that’s not as much of a worry, so any high quality adult food should be fine.

[Randy K]

Belinda, I beleive the breeder we got our Shiloh from had a puppy from the same litter that developed that after we got our pup. Her name is Jan from Miracle Shilohs on PEI. She might be able to help you. Good luck with Galen I hope he is feeling better. We’re there any other indications something was wrong other than blood from the rectum? Although that would be quite enough!

[CircaRigel]

Mostly a lot of blood and fluid, and he was vomiting as well, and obviously pain. While his bloodwork showed no anomalies when we got to the vet, he deteriorated later and had to have a plasma transfusion and a painful infusion if IV potassium (agonizingly painful… I’ve had to have IV potassium before and know) in addition to the massive fluid requirements to keep up with his losses. After 24 hours in ICU, though, he was well enough to go home, and as of today, you wouldn’t even believe he was at death’s door on Tuesday. Totally back to normal. Doubt I will be for some time, though. That was frightening!

• This reply was modified 8 years, 9 months ago by CircaRigel.

[Mana A]

Hi there. I’m a little late to this party but do you think Fromms large breed puppy is an appropriate food for a newfoundland puppy?

[InkedMarie]

Mana, did you look at the list of appropriate foods, in this thread?

[crazy4cats]

Yes, Mana, Fromm’s is on the list. I Haven’t fed it, but have heard many on this site recommend it.

[Mana A]

Thanks InkedMarie and Crazy4cats for the quick reply!

I looked through the first 20 or so pages of the thread but there are 87 pages! LOL. Anyway, if you are referring to the list compiled by HoundDogMom, yes I did see it but that list includes only grain free foods and Fromm’s large breed puppy is not grain free.

Would love to hear your input. And If HoundDogMom can help I would live to hear her input as well.

Belinda, I live in Denver too! Also, I want to clear something up. I believe that as long as the calcium:phos ratio is between 1.1:1 and 1.5:1 you should be fine. I don’t think it matters if it’s puppy food or adult food as long as that ratio is appropriate. Do you all agree with that?

Thank you so much for all of the expertise!!

[Pitlove]

Hi Mana- There are many people who feel that puppies in general should not eat grain free right off the bat. A lot of really really good LBP foods are not grain free. My boyfriends brother feeds a grain-inclusive food to their Great Dane and he has done extremely well on it. Very lean and muscular and no skeletal problems or allergies.
I highly recommend Fromm Gold LBP. It’s an excellent food and company.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 9 months ago by Pitlove.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Mana-
There is a grain inclusive list as well on about page 36. But, yes as long as the calcium ratio is correct either a puppy or an all life stages food would be fine. Do not choose a food that is recommended for adult maintenance however even if calcium level is correct.

[Pitlove]

Alright guys. I was looking into Holistic Select LBP for my boss because we weren’t sure if the calcium and phosphorus levels were too high and we carry it at work. The levels that are listed as the minimum when put into Dr.Mike’s calculator tool put it at 1.4:1 which is already approaching high. So I emailed WellPet for their as fed levels and they wrote me back today:

Dear Christa,

Thank you for taking the time to write about Holistic Select® Large & Giant Breed Puppy Health Recipe dry dog food.

Here are the nutritional values you have requested:

Large & Giant Breed Puppy Health Recipe:

Calcium: As Fed: 2.21% Dry Matter:2.40%

Phosphorus: As Fed: 1.25% Dry matter: 1.36%

Thanks again for contacting us.

Sincerely,

Michael
Consumer Affairs Representative
WellPet

When you put that into the calculator the ratios are too high. So would that be the correct levels I want to put into the calculator or the mins? I’ve been trying to find other foods to recommend LBP customers besides Fromm and Wellness Puppy to have more variety, but now I dont know if this one is safe.

[Emily S]

Hello. We just bought a Saint bernard 8 1/2 week puppy. We are to pick her up later this week. I have been researching different kids of food to get her but still try and stay in our price range. We use Taste of the Wild for our other dogs and is really good. I am not sure if there are any options from Taste of the Wild for Large Breed Puppy. They have a puppy mix but I am not sure if it is good for Saint Bernards. Do you have any knowledge on Saint Bernards and what they should eat? I have looked and they should eat Large Breed Puppy mix until about 1 year. We have loved Taste of the Wild and want to try and stick with the same brand of food because we have loved it. Please advise.

[bigthree]

Congrats Emily on a great breed of a dog. I have a St Bernard thats about 5 years of age. I can tell you this taste of the wild large breed puppy formula should be fine, just keep an eye on his coat because some of them will get skin allergies. Other than that enjoy him they are very docile and love to cuddle.

[Emily S]

bigthree: It is not a Large Breed Puppy mix it just says Puppy mix so I was not sure if it would still be fine with our St. Bernard. I saw that there is a brand Eukanuba that has a specific Large Breed Puppy formula but if Taste of the Wild Puppy mix is good then I will get that then.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Emily-

Have you taken a look at this article that is on the review side of this site?

/best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/

It may be helpful for you to choose a puppy or all life stages food that is appropriate for your large breed puppy. I can only imagine how cute she is!

[bigthree]

Usually with big dogs especially when they are going to get real big it maybe best to get a large breed formula because they tend to have better supplements in them for the bigger breeds. But you might want to check with your vet. Mine I have on Buffalo Blue Large breed formula (chicken and brown rice formula). As far as giving him something else I wish I could, he has a lot of allergies and this is the only food that doesn’t make him sick.

[aquariangt]

don’t take something that says large breed puppy at face value, some of them don’t actually have the proper formulation. C4C linked an excellent thread with great information, and on page 36 or 36 there is a list of foods that have acceptable calcium to phosphorus ratios for lgp

[Author]

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