Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition

Dog Food Advisor Forums Diet and Health Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition

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  • #76245 Report Abuse

    InkedMarie
    Member

    Emily,
    Do what aquariangt says, look on those pages for the list of appropriate foods.

    #76246 Report Abuse

    crazy4cats
    Member

    Emily-

    Here is the link to the list on page 36:

    https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/page/36/

    My only problem with this list is that it has not been updated since Oct. 2013. There could have been some changes made to some of the recipes on the list. I’d still use the calculator provided on this site that I included in my post above to make sure they still are within the guidelines. And, like AGT mentioned above, even if the bag says it is for large breed puppies, you should double check the ratios. There are no legal AAFCO guidelines for large breed pups. I hope this helps. πŸ™‚

    #76251 Report Abuse

    Pitlove
    Member

    Hi Emily- Here’s a few brands that I like and would recommend for a LBP

    Precise Holistic Complete- Large/Giant Breed Puppy
    Fromm Gold- Large Breed Puppy
    Wellness CORE- Puppy
    Holistic Select- Large Breed Puppy
    Fromm Four Star Nutritionals- Chicken A La Veg
    Fromm Four Star Nutritionals- Duck and Sweet Potatoe
    Wysong- Epigen

    #76647 Report Abuse

    Carolyn K
    Member

    Good morning all!! New here and this will be my first post.. I have been reading and researching with the help of everyone here on the forums!..

    I just purchased a Golden Mountain Doodle puppy and I will be picking him up on the 15th of August. He will be 8 months old. Due to him being a large breed dog I want to do everything possible to avoid HD and other potential issues and I began with this website.

    I plan on starting him with a mix of his current food and “Wellness CORE – Pupply Chicken and Turkey” as well as “Zuke’s Mini Naturals Dog Treats – Roasted Chicekn” while he is in training (basic obedience, potty training).

    Is this a good start? Any other suggestions that you may find to be a better “fit” within the price range?

    Thank you all so much and I hope to continue learning with you! πŸ™‚

    #76649 Report Abuse

    CircaRigel
    Member

    Carolyn,
    Congratulations on your puppy! I’ve not known a Golden Mountain Doodle, but having known some Bernese Mountain Dogs, a Newfiedoodle, and a number of golden and labradoodles, and based on my experiences with them, I think you’re in for a wonderful experience!

    I would hesitate to feed Wellness right now (or Eagle Pack, Holistic Select, or Old Mother Hubbard). All of the kibbles made by Wellpet right now contain green tea extract, which a number of studies has shown can cause liver toxicity in dogs. While the amount in the foods is probably not enough to have much of a toxic effect, those studies were on grown dogs, and puppies may react differently. Prior to my discovering this, I had tried to make a slow transition to Wellness for my own puppy, and he developed diarrhea immediately, even though he only had a couple of tablespoons of the food with his first meal. I had thought it perhaps just a simple sensitivity, until I looked at other Vine reviews of it on Amazon (I occasionally review things on Amazon in their Vine program- the items are random, and from time to time they offer a quality dog food I wish to try Galen on). Approximately 10% of the dogs that tested it on Vine became ill, in two cases, extremely ill. After I did some checking, I found the research showing the toxicity (several studies were stopped early because of it), and also discovered that all of the WellPet foods have green tea extract.

    I immediately switched Galen to Canidae Large and Giant breed puppy at that time (which I chose on my own, based on ingredients, calcium/phosphorus levels, and the inclusion of probiotics et. al- not something I was sent for review purposes). He also gets Tripett green beef tripe (which naturally contains digestive enzymes, which are beneficial to digestion and nutrient absorption). For treats, he gets Sojos freeze dried raw lamb and Natural Balance Potato and Kangaroo Limited Ingredient dog food (another thing I was sent a sample of, but is too expensive for me to actually use as his primary food). I also give him an occasional raw beef soup bone.

    Now that he’s 8 months old, I’ve transitioned him to Canidae Grain Free Pure Sea, which also has the highest ratings on Dog Food Advisor. At this age, they can properly metabolize calcium, so it’s not as imperative to keep levels so low. There has also been some recent research among giant breed breeders and vets that suggests they may also do better being weaned directly to an adult food- but one that meets the calcium/phosphorus recommendations for large and giant breed puppies. They say that the extra calories in the puppy foods tend to be empty calories, and that the adult foods may have greater nutritional benefit, ounce for ounce.

    Hope this helps!
    Belinda

    #76652 Report Abuse

    Carolyn K
    Member

    Helps tremendously Belinda!! Thank you so much!…

    I am going to try and do the same as far as food goes then.. I will purchase the puppy Canine large breed puppy now, mix that in with whatever the breeder gives me until their food is gone and then continue with the puppy until he is around 5 months or so maybe and then I will transition him into the Grain Free Pure food.. or jump to the All Life Stages..

    Any reason you chose Sea over the others? I am still unsure of what to look for completely..

    #76653 Report Abuse

    InkedMarie
    Member

    what kind of mix is a golden mountain doodle?

    #76654 Report Abuse

    Carolyn K
    Member

    Golden Retriever
    Bernese Mountain
    Poodle

    πŸ™‚

    #76657 Report Abuse

    Pitlove
    Member

    Wait, I’m confused, did you mean to say he’s 8 weeks? You said 8 months. If he is 8 months old already and you are just now getting him, he has already gone through the majority of his critical growth period. Between 8-10 months old is when LBP’s can absorb calcium correctly and their diet doesn’t need to be as strict. However, you can (and probably should) play it safe and keep him on a LBP food until he reaches 1 year of age. If you meant 8 weeks, then yes you need to choose a good Large Breed Puppy food.

    If you are going to feed Canidae make sure the formula you are going to feed is not one of the ones manufactured by Diamond. Very wise to avoid this manufactuerer.

    My personal recommendation is Fromm Gold Large Breed Puppy. Very easily digested food and formulated correctly for a LBP. Also a family owned and operated company for over 100 years with no recalls.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by  Pitlove.
    #76660 Report Abuse

    CircaRigel
    Member

    Yes, Fromm is good as well. Galen was on that for a time, too, actually a combination of that and the Canidae. The Grain Free Pure Sea is made at theCanidae plant, not Diamond. The Canidae Large breed puppy I got is also manufactured at Canidae’s plant. I don’t touch things manufactured at Diamond either, and was glad to see Canidae begin to split from them with their better lines of food. The life stages large breed puppy is 4 stars on Dog food Advisor. Grain free Pure Sea is five stars. But I was indeed feeding a combination of the Fromm gold and Canidae, before switching to the Grain Free Pure Sea, which he’s on now, and doing well.

    But the Fromm is excellent, too. I tended to need to have a mix, as Galen has always been a very picky eater, which isn’t uncommon for shepherds.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by  CircaRigel.
    • This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by  CircaRigel.
    #76663 Report Abuse

    Pitlove
    Member

    Good to know about those formulas of Canidae! I was actually not even aware they made a Large/Giant Breed Puppy formula.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by  Pitlove.
    #76670 Report Abuse

    Mana A
    Member

    I’m now confused. I thought the whole point of this thread is that large/giant breed dogs do not require large breed puppy food. If you look on page 36 of this thread, HoundDogMom has provided a list of all the dog foods that are appropriate for large breed puppies. You DO NOT need to give large breed puppy food, all you need is the correct calcium:phos ratio.

    I’m also confused bc I don’t see Canidae on that list. Are we sure Canidae has the correct ratios?

    #76671 Report Abuse

    CircaRigel
    Member

    That list is old, but as I said just a couple of posts ago, a consensus among a number of giant breed breeders and their research is that puppy foods, indeed, are not necessary, provided you have the proper calcium/phosphorus levels. ANd I did not begin to switch to the Canidae Grain Free Pure Sea adult food until my pup had reached 6 months old, an age where they can adequately process calcium and phosphorus to not require the lower levels, but until then, yes, the large breed canidae does indeed have those very low levels that are recommended. I was very careful from the beginning.

    #76685 Report Abuse

    Carolyn K
    Member

    Yes pit, I apologize.. I meant 8 weeks..

    Thank you again for all of the info.. I will check out Fromm Gold as well..

    πŸ™‚

    And I too want to be overly careful..

    #76688 Report Abuse

    Pitlove
    Member

    Mana- There are lots of great foods that are correctly formulated for a LBP that do not say LBP on the bag, however there are many that do that are also excellent. Belinda and I are just listing our personal favorites. This thread is not about LBP NOT needing a LBP food, it is simply about LBP nutrition in general. We talk about any and all things having to do with large and giant breed pups.

    #76692 Report Abuse

    Randy K
    Member

    I thought it was 8 months before LBP could properly process calcium? Totem is a little over 6 months and I’ve been holding back a bit on switching her to foods with a bit more calcium. I do mix it up a bit in her food rotation with Fromm LBP, Primal Freeze Dried, Honest Kitchen, Vital Essentials freeze dried, Tripett canned beef Tripe and recently Canadae Life Stages canned LGP. I’ve ordered some Ziwi Peak foods for her but have not started her on that yet. Eventually I’m fairly certain I’ll switch her to fresh raw foods.

    #76694 Report Abuse

    CircaRigel
    Member

    After they get their adult teeth in is when they can properly process calcium, so there will be some variation from dog to dog, but all pups should have their adult teeth by 8 months, hence it being the more general mark that’s spoken of. I began the transition to the foods I intended to feed as an adult at 6 months, but the transition wasn’t completed until last week, well into the 8 months mark. Galen had all of his adult teeth in before I started. It was a very gradual transition so that his system would experience zero issues. Initially, the adult diet I chose was less than 1/8 of what he had been on as a puppy.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by  CircaRigel.
    #76698 Report Abuse

    crazy4cats
    Member

    Both Hound Dog Mom and Dr. Mike state that you should feed a large breed pup either a growth (puppy) or All Life Stages food that meet the correct calcium levels, not an adult maintenance food.

    #76721 Report Abuse

    Pitlove
    Member

    Randy- Yes 8 months is usually the marker. You can also feed a LBP food until 10 months or even 12 months to be safe. It will not hurt them to grow as slow as possible. It is also not just a matter of feeding the correct food, but not feeding too many calories as that also contributes to overgrowth.

    #76761 Report Abuse

    Randy K
    Member

    Thanks for the info! It is rather confusing at least to me. I used the calculator on this site to figure the calcium to phosphorous ratios on the ZiwiPeak air dried and moist (canned). Some were in the ball park of 1.5 or less to 1 and some were just a bit high. I did give her some of the canned it sure looks like a quality product compared to some of the other premium canned foods. She loved it a lot. The only downside I see is the cost.

    #76768 Report Abuse

    Pitlove
    Member

    Yes canned is insanely expensive, especially if you want to feed something higher quality. I have been feeding canned for a long time, but with the current state of my dogs skin I need to elimate it for a while from his diet to make sure his skin is really healing on the food I put him on. Too many ingredient panels to keep track of right now.

    #78936 Report Abuse

    Erika B
    Member

    I am having trouble figuring out what to feed my 9 week old puppy cane corso (italian mastiff) giant breed dog. Does anyone having any suggestions?

    #79043 Report Abuse

    Darek N
    Member

    I Have a Golden Retriever that is just over 6 month old and I have followed the recommended LBP food from the list and fed him Fromm Four Star Grain free mix of few different flavors. Now that he is over 6 month should I change the formula or I should stick to the recommended food from the list?

    #79052 Report Abuse

    Pitlove
    Member

    Darek- You can switch to something else if you want variety, but since your GR is still a puppy he needs to remain on a food that is safe for LBP’s until at least a year old.

    #79056 Report Abuse

    Darek N
    Member

    And since its an adult food should I still feed him like 1.5 or 2 times more then recommended by manufacture?

    #79059 Report Abuse

    aquariangt
    Member

    Technically Fromm 4Star is an all life stages food, so it’s essentially the same as puppy food. Food recommendations is a good starting point, but I would figure out how many calories he actually requires and feed him based off that, and then monitor weight to keep him lean

    #79062 Report Abuse

    Pitlove
    Member

    You can begin feeding 2 meals a day now instead of 3. I personally have not ever counted calories for my dog, I go based off his physical apperance and that has always worked for me. You can certainly count calories if you prefer that though.

    #79063 Report Abuse

    Darek N
    Member

    Thank you for all your reply.
    I found this wonderful website when I got my Golden Retriever Puppy and was searching for suggestions on food for GR puppy’s. After reading posts I found the list of recommended food and learn about importance of low calcium. Lots of people liked and recommended Fromm 4Star and that’s what I was feeding my puppy with. Now that he is over 6 month old I am little confused and don know what to do in this stage of his life. I use to feed him 3 times a day as suggested about 2 to 1.5 times more then the company suggested amount since he was a puppy. Should I adjust the frequency and the amount of food when he is over 6 month? He is now 54 ponds nice and lean and I don’t want to over or under due his diet. I also have to change the company since Fromm is not available locally and I have to special order it every time and it cost me arm and a leg. I got Earthborn Holistic Meadow Feast & and Coastal Catch for variety and he likes it. My only concern is that the Meadow Feast has protein level at only 26. What are your thoughts on that? “Aquarianqt” suggested to figure out calories – How do I do that? Can someone please clarify that for me. He is 6 mount old neutered male at 54 pounds.
    Thank you for all your help

    #79064 Report Abuse

    DogFoodie
    Member

    Darek,

    Are you in the U.S.? I realize “affordable” is a pretty subjective term, but have you ever priced Fromm on chewy.com? They also offer additional discounts on some brands when you enroll in auto-delivery.

    #79073 Report Abuse

    aquariangt
    Member

    I like earthborn, but i don’t use meadow feast because of the low protein. Lamb in general has lower proteins than most other meats so its harder to get that good level you’re looking for. Here is a calculator for calories

    https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-feeding-tips/dog-food-calculator/

    #79694 Report Abuse

    AshDad
    Member

    Hello everyone, long time listener, first time caller.

    We have a 4.5 month old GSD that may have a chicken allergy. He’s super itchy, even with the benedryl the doc put him on. I’ve been in search of and been researching to find a non-chicken large breed puppy food that looks acceptable, without much success. (Breeder had him on Royal Canin Maxi Puppy and Chicken Soup for the Dog Soul Large Breed Puppy. He has stayed on the RCMP, though we’re looking to move him off of that. He didn’t like the TOTW Puppy, just for the record)

    Before I pull the rest of my hair out, I thought I’d ping the community. He’s about 52 pounds right now, with males from his parents generally being in the 115-140 range as adults. Any insight is appreciated…

    AshDad

    #79696 Report Abuse

    Erika B
    Member

    Roger/Ashdad – Try Fromm (beef flavor and grain free) their fromm gold has chicken in it and my dog, had soft stools, your dog might do good on beef. I just started mixing Acana Pacifica and it’s already improving on his stools, it’s all fish based. Or you could try Earthborn.

    #79697 Report Abuse

    CircaRigel
    Member

    Roger,
    So long as the adult food meets the calcium requirements for a large breed (~1% calcium/1% Phosphorus), your dog should do fine with the adult food. Recent research has determined that often, the extra calories of the large breed puppy foods are empty calories, and by including adult foods that meet the requirements in your search, you can expand to additional foods that use other protein sources than chicken.

    #79699 Report Abuse

    AshDad
    Member

    Thanks for the replies, Erika & Circa. I’ve been using the calculator on this page: https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/ and seem to really be struggling finding an adult food that fits the bill of enough calcium without being too much. He tends to like larger kibble (we think that’s why he refused the TOTW), so that’s where my search is right now.

    I’ll do some research on the Fromm Beef and hope that might be it. Any additional insight is appreciated.

    R/AD

    #79700 Report Abuse

    Pitlove
    Member

    Roger- Once piece of advice when using that calculator- The levels of calcium and phosphorus that need to be input into the calculator need to be the MAX or as fed levels of calcium and phos, not the minimum amounts that are listed on the bag and on the website of the company.

    Which Taste of the Wild formula did your pup try? Both?

    #79701 Report Abuse

    Erika B
    Member

    No problem! Fromm meets close the 1:1 ratio with all there foods, it’s a good high quality brand, it was unfortunately my pup didn’t do well on it. However, Acan Pacifica meets the 1:3:1 ratio. I only got acana Pacifica because it’s all life stages and I have a mastiff, cane corso, and on their page everyone recommended TOTW or ACANA and earthborn to meet the calcium and phosphate needs, as well as giving them steady growth, since their large breed. If your looking for adult food, majority of adult food has even a less calcium and phosphate. I was researching like crazy to find a good food and when I did, it just didn’t work out, so don’t be too stressed out like I was. Victor, candaie, and I believe nutro also meet the ratios.

    #79702 Report Abuse

    Erika B
    Member

    Oh and by the way all life stages Acana food (like pacifica) are large kibble.

    #79703 Report Abuse

    DogFoodie
    Member

    Hi Roger,

    I was in the middle of a response last night when I got totally derailed by The Walking Dead.

    Have you seen this list (which appears on page 36 of this thread): https://docs.google.com/a/dogfoodadvisor.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk/edit?pli=1

    This list has aged a bit since Hound Dog Mom first created it, but at the time she put it together, all of the foods on the list were four and five stars and have appropriate Calcium for large and giant breed puppies. Double check anything you might choose off of this list in the event the formula has changed.

    You should feed your pup a controlled level of Calicum until they reach at least 80% of their full adult size, which is about a year (give or take) depending on the breed. It’s longer for giant breed pups. Obviously, also, avoid over-nutrition and over-exercising.

    #79707 Report Abuse

    Bobby dog
    Member

    Hi DF:
    I am still hoping Glenn will show up in Alexandria. πŸ™

    Hi Roger:
    You can also join the DFA Editor’s Choice for a current list of recommended large breed puppy foods.

    #79709 Report Abuse

    DogFoodie
    Member

    Dang it! Right? Shoot, BD, there are lots of hypotheticals, but I’m just thinking he’s gone. :'(

    #79712 Report Abuse

    Bobby dog
    Member

    I know, I know I think I am in denial. Of course the cryptic statements from the producers on TD didn’t help much either. No one can live for too many T.V. seasons in the zombie apocalypse, right?

    #79714 Report Abuse

    AshDad
    Member

    Thanks for the help, Pitlove. Knowing that what I was putting in is the minimum, not the maximum totally changed my research. The TOTW that I tried was the venison one.

    ErikaB – appreciate the recommendations, I’ll check them out.

    DogFoodie – thanks. I did see the list, but was worried that it might be too dated. Sounds like based on what Bobby Dog said that there might be a more current list if I join – ill peek there.

    On a side note, I did see that Costco has their Kirkland Salmon food on the list above. Any thought on that product in particular, gang?

    R/AD

    #79723 Report Abuse

    Pitlove
    Member

    Roger- No problem! That is such a common mistake, but its funny because when inputting the minimums, just about any food looks like it could work! lol. I asked about which formula for Taste of the Wild Puppy he tried because they are actually both safe for large breeds. Perhaps he would like the Pacific Stream one if you’re still interested in the brand.

    #79726 Report Abuse

    crazy4cats
    Member

    Hi Roger P-

    Here is a link for the Kirkland Nature’s Domain Salmon food you were inquiring about. There is a contact us button, if you have any questions. I have not fed this food yet, but my sister has fed it to her lab with a lot of skin issues and it has done wonders for him.

    http://www.kirklandsignaturepetsupplies.com/natures-domain-brand

    Good luck!

    #79727 Report Abuse

    AshDad
    Member

    Thanks, Crazy4cats!

    Ash just got home from a scheduled vet visit. The vet has recommended that we immediately transition to Royal Canin K9 Hydrolyzed Protein, and use that for 12 weeks. At the end of 12 weeks, she would have us start trying other foods to use longer term.

    I’m torn on whether I should do that or switch to what could be a longer term solution now.

    Thoughts anyone?

    R

    #79728 Report Abuse

    anonymously
    Member

    Listen to your vet.

    #79729 Report Abuse

    Erika B
    Member

    It’s up to you, all vets recommend science diet and royal canine. I don’t always listen to doctors and vets because they’ve proven wrong multiple of times for me personally.

    #79730 Report Abuse

    Erika B
    Member

    You can look up what’s in royal canine, most people (not vets) don’t recommend it. Compare the ingredients in it to other foods and you’ll notice why.

    #79731 Report Abuse

    anonymously
    Member

    Your vet has examined the dog and based on his knowledge and training has come up with a specific plan that includes prescription food. Maybe he is trying to rule out food sensitivities.
    You don’t have to comply with the recommended treatment, but that may sabotage the vet’s ability to diagnose what is going on with your dog.

    #79844 Report Abuse

    AshDad
    Member

    Back with a quick update:

    While I’m not a fan of Rx diets in general, I did make the decision to go with the recommended Royal Canin Hydrolyzed Protein for the time being. Long story short, my Vet isn’t sure that our puppy’s allergy is to chicken, and this food will help us isolate what it might be as we start to reintroduce him to commercial products in 6-12 weeks.

    I really appreciate all the help and insight, and look forward to getting him on a normal food again in the near future.

    AshDad

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