[NectarMom]

Are chicken feet fatty? I am still looking at something my girls can chew on and I thought of chicken feet but I don’t want the same thing to happen that happened with the marrow bones? Pancreatitisis an issue for my one chihuahua. I can also get dehydrated duck feet at a local chain store so are those an option too? They are not raw though.

[BlueDog]

This is a question kind of along the lines of one posted a few weeks ago about shark. My fiance and friends brought home a soft shell turtle today from the river. I’m wondering if the liver, kidneys, etc would be ok to feed in a raw diet. Also, it was a female, and had several large developing eggs inside. If I freeze it for a while (month or two) do you think it would be safe?

[theBCnut]

I use it in rotation, it is heavy with flax seed, so I don’t like the idea of using it all the time. When I use it, I use 9 lbs of ground meat(sometimes I use turkey and pork) and 1 lbs of organs. I add 4 0z. of apple cider vinegar. You can mix it without the eggs and then add eggs when you are ready to feed it if you want to leave the eggs raw. It doesn’t mix and store well with raw eggs.

[Cyndi]

Hey Pattyvaughn,

I was just looking at the DinOvite site, that you mentioned, and they have a recipe on there, with a video, for Homemade Dog food. What do you think about feeding just this as a primary diet? Would my dog be getting everything she needs in that diet? & I wondered why they used hard-boiled eggs and not raw eggs in that recipe. Can I get your thoughts on all this, and anyone else’s, if you don’t mind? Thanks in advance! 🙂

Oh, and what modifications would you make to make it better?

[Cyndi]

Ok, I will have to do a bit more research. Atleast the food I have her on now is much better than the crap she was on. Thank you for all your help, I really do appreciate it. This all just seems so overwhelming, but I so want to do the right thing for my baby. I am so glad I found this site and you are all so polite (compared to another forum where I more or less got yelled at for asking an off topic question). Thank you so much, again, for your help!

Have a great evening! 🙂

[theBCnut]

Including shipping they top $4 a pound for me. I use some Darwin’s, but not all. When I started feeding raw, I googled homemade dog food and found DinOvite. It was an easy way to get started. I used their Yeast Starvation Diet for a bit while I read up on feeding raw. It’s a very easy recipe and I still make it occassionally with some modifications. There are a few premixes and vitamin/mineral mixes that are made to be mixed with either boneless meat or grinds that are also an easy way to get started. These are more expensive than doing it all from scratch, but less expensive than premade balanced raw diets.

[Cyndi]

Thanks Patty. I just got done reading some of the threads about Darwin’s raw food. Do you think this would be a good place for me to start? I haven’t researched the cost for them yet, but Darwins sounds like a good alternative for me instead of me trying to figure out on my own if I’m feeding the rights raw foods in the right quantities. Are they really expensive, do you know?

[theBCnut]

I started using raw as a topper and had no problems, but it could be a case of some dogs having problems and some not. When my dogs were eating enough raw to make a meal of it, I switched to feeding raw for breakfast and kibble for dinner. Now, I can feed all raw, raw and kibble, just kibble, whatever. It is all what works for you and your dog.

[Cyndi]

Thanks so much everyone for all the feedback! I sincerely appreciate it all. One more question, for now anyways, lol! I have read conflicting things on starting to feed raw. I have read to fast your dog for 24 hours & then just start the raw diet, starting with one meat source at a time to get them used to it, but I have also read to introduce raw food slowly, giving them some raw food mixed with their kibble each day. Which is the right way, or is there a right way to make the switch?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Cyndi –

The general feeding recommendations for raw are as follows (amounts are in % of the dog’s body weight):

1.5% – weight loss
2.0% – inactive
2.5% – adult maintenance for average activity level
3.0% – slight weight gain or active dogs
3.5% – significant weight gain or very active dogs
4.0% – puppies (8 weeks – 1 year) or working dogs
4.5%-8.0% – puppies (4-8 weeks), pregnant/lactating females or working dogs

This is a good guide, but all dogs are different so just monitor your dog’s body condition and adjust portion sizes accordingly. My 9 month old female eats about 3.5% of her weight, my 2 year old female eats about 4% of her body weight and my 8 year old male eats about 3% of his weight.

[theBCnut]

We just took a goat to the butcher for the first time. I found it strange to explain how I wanted him processed, so I wonder what I’ll end up with. The good news is he doesn’t have any problem saving all the organs for me. I even told him I wanted brains and eyes. He didn’t even blink when I asked him if he could grind all the organs together. That way I can portion them easier. Portioning 70 lbs of various goat parts will be interesting since I need it in 1 lbs packages…

[theBCnut]

My two very active 40 lbs dogs eat about a pound a day, one slightly more than the other. The rule of thumb is 2-3% of their body weight.

When turkey is on sale at Thanksgiving, I get 2 or 3 extras.

[BlueDog]

Yay Cyndi! I have also recently (as in yesterday) started researching a raw food diet for my 50lb ACD. I found a page (and forgot to bookmark) that helped me decide that with his weight range, I should give him about 1000 Cal/day, or about 1.25lb each day of food, including boneless meat and raw meaty bones. HDM’s suggestions are great, and I went today all around town to local butchers, grocery stores, and even a vet that has knowledge and that supports raw food diets. I made a list of what each place had to offer based on who had better prices on things, especially harder to find things like beef hearts and turkey necks. Ended up buying 3 fryer chickens that were on sale for $0.77 a lb, and some other stuff on sale. My plan is to establish my budget that I can devote to this, price everything up, and start saving. And also to buy meat when I see it for a great price. We are lucky in my area to have access to a local butcher, several grocery stores (HEB has had the best selection of doggy type meats for decent prices) and also a natural/organic food store that has a ton of the great supplements that I have seen mentioned. Check the “Transitioning to raw” thread on this section of the forum, it has a lot of great info and I think a sample recipe from HDM. There’s also a thread “Suggested raw dog food menus” that has several recipes that HDM and others have posted.

[Cyndi]

Oh, a totally unrelated question…… How do I go about putting a picture up for my profile pic? I tried to figure it out earlier, but didnt have any luck.

[Cyndi]

Thank you Pattyvaughn, I will check that out. & thank you also, Hound dog mom, all that is very good to know. Ive just been getting so overwhelmed by researching & reading all the different things that people say they feed their dogs. I really dog want to feed my dog raw, but it all just sounds too expensive to do, but if/when I do make the switch, I need to make sure I can afford it.

Any idea how much, I guess in pounds, that I will need to feed. I feed Bailey twice a day and she currently weighs 50lbs. & I’d like to keep her at that weight preferably.

Thank you both, so much, for your help!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Cyndi –

It’s wonderful that you’re considering a raw diet for your dog!

Owning three large and active dogs, I can sympathize with you on wanting to keep things cheap. My tips for keeping raw feeding budget friendly would be:

1. Rely on chicken, turkey, pork and beef as your primary protein sources – they’re the cheapest per pound.

2. Rather than feeding boneless meat and supplementing with calcium, incorporate raw meaty bones (chicken necks, turkey necks, etc.) as the calcium source. RMB’s are much cheaper per pound than boneless meat.

3. Rely on hearts and gizzards as your primary source of muscle meat in the diet. While boneless skinless chicken breast might be more appealing to a person, there’s no reason dogs need to eat these expensive cuts of meat.

4. Add things like eggs, cottage cheese, yogurt or kefir to stretch the meal a bit with some cheap but high quality animal-based protein.

5. Avoid pre-ground meats, they’re generally more expensive. Feed meat in chunks or dice it yourself.

6. Buy bulk – try to locate a wholesale supplier. Shop the manager’s specials at the grocery store.

7. Use supplements made for humans rather than for dogs, believe it or not they’re generally much cheaper. I order from Swanson Vitamins (cheap, high quality, big variety).

[theBCnut]

Steve Brown’s book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” is an EXCELLENT place to start.

[Cyndi]

And, I forgot to mention, I don’t have a whole lot of money. I’m not even sure I’ll be able to keep up with what I just started feeding her. So, if someone can help with the cheapest raw things that I could feed my dog, with the right variety that would really help me alot!

[Cyndi]

Hi, I will try to make this as short as possible. Ok, I have a newly adopted dog Bailey. She is a 1 1/2 yr. old border collie/Pit bull mix and she weighs 50lbs. I HATE all the stuff I hear about commercial dog food. I am just recently into researching everything. I had a doberman who died at the age of 11 from an undiagnosed problem and I have a feeling it was from either commercial dog food crap, vaccines, topical flea stuff or all of the above. I am fully committed to doing better by my new dog. I just recently switched to Nature’s Variety Instinct kibble (I was using Purina One) which I feed her for breakfast. For dinner, I switched her to Deli Fresh by Freshpet. I really, really want to switch her to a raw diet, but I have no clue where/how to start, what foods to feed or not to feed, if I can afford it, etc. I’m afraid once I start I won’t know what to feed and and how much and if I am giving her the right variety of stuff. I’ve looked up raw “menus” online, but it sounds like there is so many different things that I would have to feed Bailey, that I might end up going broke. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated…

[BlueDog]

Actually nevermind, I found one of your previous posts that helped answer my question. Thanks again! I’m sure I will have questions in the future!

[BlueDog]

Thanks for the great response! The reason I ask is mainly because I would really like to start feeding a raw diet, but I don’t have a large budget or a lot of storage space. Do you have any suggestions that can help minimize expenditures? I know I need to find someone in town that I can joint order with, but do you have any other ideas?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi BlueDog –

It would be okay to use canned vegetables on occasion if you absolutely have to, but I wouldn’t exactly consider them a good substitute for fresh. A lot of nutrients are lost during the canning process. Your best choice is (obviously) going to be fresh produce, followed by frozen and then canned would be the least nutritious. Remember fresh and frozen vegetables need to be cooked and pureed prior to feeding – this will start to break down the cellulose and allow the dog to digest the vegetables more efficiently. If convenience is an issue another option that I feel is a bit healthier than canned vegetables is “pouched” fruit and vegetable puree sold for babies. I usually cook up and puree fresh or frozen vegetables for my crew but if I know I’m going to be pressed for time I’ll pick up some of these. They generally contain two or three different fruits and vegetables and the cooking and pureeing is already done for you. Canned fish is fine – tinned sardines are a great source of omega 3’s and vitamin d and low in mercury and canned oysters supply some omega 3’s in addition to many trace nutrients. If you aren’t feeding raw fatty fish or adding fish oil to meals you’ll want to feed tinned sardines. Steve Brown – essential fat authority and author or “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” – recommends the following amounts of sardines be served per week: 5 lbs – 1/4 can; 15 lbs. – 1/2 can; 25 lbs. – 5/8 can; 50 lbs. – 1 can; 100 lbs. – 1 3/4 can. (3.75 oz. can packed in water). And yes, it’s completely okay to buy bulk frozen meat. I buy bulk frozen meat because I get the best price when I buy in bulk.

[BlueDog]

I am new to this site and have just started researching raw food diets for my dog, and I want to say thank you all who have contributed their great advice to this forum! Your hard work is very much appreciated!! A quick question: Is canned food, say canned carrots for example, a decent substitute for fresh produce, or even fish? I know you have to watch out for added sodium.. Also, is there anything wrong with buying bulk frozen fish and other meats? So long as you thaw it of course.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi ksufan –

Pooping 3 – 4 times and day and not being able to hold it for more than a few hours is not normal for a dog that’s over a year old. I’d suggest just giving another 5 star food a try. If you could feed all canned food or raw food or substitute half her kibble for canned or raw that may help too as canned foods and raw foods typically contain less filler than kibble and are highly digestible. I’d also recommend getting her on a digestive enzyme supplement to ensure she’s digesting all her food as efficiently as possible.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi shelties mom –

I do believe that dogs should be fed a diet rich in joint maintaining compounds (glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, etc.) for a lifetime in order to promote optimum joint health. A dog’s natural ancestral diet which is rich in bones, cartilage and sinew, would naturally contain high levels of these joint health promoting substances. For those feeding a raw diet that includes bones/cartilage, it generally isn’t necessary to supplement with joint supplements unless the dog has an orthopedic condition (i.e. hip dysplasia) or until the dog reaches its senior years. For dogs not eating a species-appropriate diet I feel it’s a good idea to supplement the diet with whole foods naturally rich in joint health compounds (think fresh or dried trachea chews, gullet, poultry feet, etc.) or give a low dose of a joint support supplement for maintenance (the dosage can be increased as the dog ages or begins to show symptoms of arthritis). Some whole food supplements beneficial for joint health would be sea cucumber, shark cartilage or green lipped mussel (generally come in capsules or powder). A standard glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM supplement will also suffice. If a dog is showing signs of pain or inflammation it can also be beneficial to combine a joint maintenance supplement with a natural anti-inflammatory such as boswellia, yucca, turmeric, bromelain, tart cherry, etc.

[theBCnut]

I’m with you. I’d rather see those vit and min in whole foods and 24% carbs is a bit more than I would like, but that does sound pretty good. I’ve never heard of it before.

[dogmom2]

This is the spirulina supplement that my vet.

Animal Essentials Organic Green Alternative

Animal Essentials Herbal Green Alternative Antioxidant Powder for Dogs & Cats

Any thoughts?

Both my dogs are on Darwin’s, or we feed THK preference with an organic protein, or a balanced diet of rmb, meat and organ (usually kidney or liver). We also feed raw green tripe, and on occasion kibble with Merrick. ( we are switching from Evo red meat to trying our first bag of Brothers Complete Allergy. )
We also supplement with kefir, yogurt, cottage cheese, fresh eggs, sardines in olive oil.
We give pre and probiotic with enzymes daily, turmeric, glucosamine and fish oil also.

[InkedMarie]

Glad it’s going well!

[dogmom2]

I use iFlora digestive formula (prebiotics, probiotics and enzymes) for the boys, in addition to plain kefir. We also feed raw green tripe. ( they had some for their breakfast this morning).
I really think the combination of these has helped tremendously to the over all health of both of the dogs.
We also supplement with turmeric, glucosamine and omega3 fish oil for joint health.

My vet recently suggested a spirulina powder for additional antioxidants, but we have not yet added that in.

I swear…I spend more time nd energy thinking about my dogs food than I do my own!
However, after seeing how well Hank did off the grains, I stopped eating them as well and now I am not having the horrible asthma issues I have been treating for 10 years. It has been 4 months since I stopped taking my singular and I have not had one issue. Amazing. I really wonder if there is something to the quality of the grains with the advent of GMO.

[patvl246]

So Happy to hear your guys like Darwins, it’s has to be one of the best commercial raw foods out there. Get better Hank

[Hound Dog Mom]

Has anyone used “Healthy Pet Products” brand raw food? I got a 5 lb. roll of the beef I was going to try out. Dr. Mike hasn’t reviewed it but it doesn’t look too bad and the price was reasonable for a pre-made beef-based food ($3.39/lb.).

Ingredients:
Certified Organic, Range-Fed and USDA Beef, Beef Hearts, Beef Lung, Beef Liver, Beef Kidney, Beef Tripe, Ground Beef Bone, Fresh Whole Eggs, Carrots, Celery, Sweet Potatoes, Garlic, Apples, Cranberries, Vegetable Fiber, Calcium, Dicalcium Phosphate, Choline Chloride, Zinc Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Niacin, Iron Sulfate, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Copper Sulfate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Managanous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Biotin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Sodium Selenite.

General Analysis:
51% protein and 25% fat (dry matter)

Not a huge fan of the inclusion of synthetic vitamins and minerals and the fat content is a bit lower than what I’d typically feed my crew but I figured it’d be worth a try and it’d be something different for the dogs (they don’t get commercial raw too often).

[dogmom2]

Hi there!!

Sorry it has taken me so long to get back here. It has been crazy busy around here these days.

Hank is doing great on the Darwin’s. We are now into our 3 full shipment, and I am very happy with the food. Both dogs really like it. We also bought duck necks from them, and we are incorporating them into their homemade raw diet. (we get grass fed beef hear, tongue, kidney and liver from a local rancher) It is fun to hear them crunching. My black lab loves sardines as it turns out.

Unfortunately, Hank had his first foot blow up in a year and a half, but we are convinced that it is ingrown hair between the toes that cause it, and not environmental allergies. We are doing laser treatments at our vet, and we did one acupuncture treatment as well. Poor guy, he is on low activity until it heals. His itching and licking is pretty much resolved for now.

All in all, I wish I would have learned about Darwins, raw feeding, etc years ago.

ps. I just ordered my first 5# sample of Brothers complete allergy last night for the days when kibble is whats for dinner!

[weimlove]

Hdm- yeah I think once I do raw longer I will find easier strategies. As of now his breakfast is a boneless meal of either green tripe, ground beef, chicken gizzards, turkey, or natural mix from blue ridge which contains tripe beef chicken liver and hearts. He also gets his veggie mix in the morning for breakfast which contains a mixture of veggies, and boiled eggs. At dinner he gets rmbs such as leg quarters, turkey necks, wings, pork necks, and other chicken parts. He also gets a fish meal once a week. I’ve been using the quart size ziplock bags and usually fill them half way up (meal portion sizes) I think I’m going to start buying the gallon size bags. When you freeze your rmbs, how do you separate them at meal time if they are frozen? How do you store them? Also, it’s been hard for me to find a co op in my area. How much do you think you spend monthly for one of your dogs?

[NectarMom]

I don’t know how all that will stay good until you feed it? I was told that after 3 months do not use Raw when it is frozen because of ice crystals forming? I am afraid to over do it because of this and I have thrown out meat in my own freezer for us ( For My husband and myself) because of this.

[Hound Dog Mom]

As far as prepping meals efficiently – I make two batches per week. I mix up breakfast for Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday on Sunday night (take the meat out of the freezer Saturday night) and divide it into 9 tupperware containers (3 per dog) and I make up breakfast for Thursday/Friday/Saturday on Wednesday night (I take the meat out of the freezer on Tuesday night) and do the same. For dinner they basically just get RMB’s and gizzards/hearts/etc. or Pork Necks so I don’t have to do much for that, I just have to remember to take their RMBs out of the freezer the night before. The only time consuming part of the prep process for me is meat delivery day – UGH I’m cringing just thinking about it because I’m going to have to place an order in a few weeks. I get most of my meat from a wholesale distributor for extremely cheap, but in exchange for the cheap prices I have to buy in bulk (minimum 300 lbs. per order) and all the meat comes in 40 lb. cases. So I have to separate it all into smaller portions on delivery day – I use freezer bags for the ground meat/organ meat and wrap the RMBs in freezer wrap. It’s an all day process and I usually enlist the whole family. Luckily I order enough to last about 4 months so I only have to do this a few times a year! The longer you feed raw the more efficient you’ll get. It only takes me about 20 min. to mix up a three day batch of food.

[pugmomsandy]

HoundDogMom might have the answer. She makes her own raw as well. I have a recipe book by Dr. Karen Becker/Beth Taylor and it actually gives all the breakdown of protein/fat/carbs as well as a nutrient analysis for all the recipes.

[pugmomsandy]

Probably more than 6 months. The top shelf is just random bones. The very bottom drawer is 36 lb of pork. The next shelf up is 100 lbs of tripe/tripe blend in the laundry basket. The next shelf up is 20 lbs of chicken hearts in the blue bag and 50 lbs of beef blend in the brown box. The next shelf up is homemade 16 oz containers and 20 lbs of beef heart. The door has bags of kidneys and some other random bones. That photo was from November 2012 when I got my first order of texastripe products (250 lbs) and filled the freezer up with the new products and what was in the freezer already . I rotate my homemade containers or put them across from the old ones. And when the tubes get low then I order some more and just put the few old tubes on top or move them to the door.

[pugmomsandy]

It varies. Tonight they are getting a sardine each. If they were eating only raw it would be about 19 ounces a day! BUT they eat kibble, canned, and freeze dried too. Those tubes in the freezer are 2 lbs each. I bought 180 lbs of tubes of tripe/tripe blend/beef blend/wild boar/organs.

[theBCnut]

Sandy, about how much raw do you feed in a day?

[NectarMom]

Thanks HDM. Things are looking better today for my baby. Shes acting a bit normal and been eating the Darwin’s Raw twice a day with no issues so I am really sure now that it was the bone marrow.

I do have a question though. I bought some Sardines in a can of water and was wondering if it is ok to give her and the others a half of one of those without any issues? They did not seem to have too much fat in them but I don’t want to rock the boat anymore with my baby either? Everyone else can probably handle them but I don’t want to give them something without her getting something too…shes just a bit spoiled 🙂

[theBCnut]

I’m in raw4pets. I’m finding more and more options every day. I have got to get a new freezer!!

[pugmomsandy]

LOL! I just got a larger plate for the grinder. It’s more “chili-size”. I like it better than the smaller plate that the machine comes with. I’m saving lots of $$ by buying from a local supplier and also making my own grinds! Have you joined the yahoo group: carnivorefeed-supplier? There’s alot of raw food options out there.

[barfworld1]

Hi,

We suggest you add E-BARF Plus which is both and enzyme and probiotic to help with ease of transition to raw (no tummy upset) and also because she’s doing some kibble. Also Wild Salmon Oil for improving skin and coat conditions (both are in our Jump Start Bundle). Visit us at http://barfworld.com

Thanks!
Your friends over at BarfWorld

[theBCnut]

I’ve used them before for an epilepsy dog that was hard to pill. They have some ingredients that I would rather not use and if I knew then what I know now, I especially wouldn’t use them for a dog with epilepsy. Now I use braunschweiger(a soft liver sausage), soft cheese, a ball of raw ground beef, peanutbutter, a spoonful of yogurt, anything like that. I heard from someone the other day that they use a spoonful of honey.

[weimlove]

Hey everyone, I’ve been feeding raw for a few months now and shadows doing great, the only thing that is the downfall is the prep time. What I’ve been doing is getting freezer bags and making meal sized portions for about a months worse and then thawing ad needed. It just makes such a mess in the kitchen and the prep and clean up time take about two hours together. Does anybody have any advice or tips on how to make prep time faster and less messy? Thanks!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Typically detox occurs when switching to a higher quality food – such as when switching from kibble (high carb, not species-appropriate) to balanced raw (low carb, species-appropriate).

[NectarMom]

Yeah we went through this again with the Brothers Allergy Formula but just not as long. I only notice it on her because she is black. So everytime I switch brands or proteins my dogs will go through a detox period? Well if the duck is lower in fat then I may give it a try and do what Darwin’s said to do and mix the turkey in with it. I would honestly like to stick with Raw but if it causes my Pancreatic girl issues then we will have no option but to switch her to a leaner food but so far the last 2 days shes been fine on it but she still is not like she was before he marrow bones. If I have to do it myself then I will but I am mainly concerned with balance if I go that route.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the recommendation Mindy, I recently sort of inherited a dog. The poor thing itched until her skin was raw, I first believed it was nerves, however the condition continued. I visited VitaHound and decided to use their dog supplement. I have only been adding it to her food for the past 10 but it is providing relief. I truly think this stuff is going to continue to work. I will report back and pay it forward for the helpful advice.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the recommendation Mindy, I recently sort of inherited a dog. The poor thing itched until her skin was raw, I first believed it was nerves, however the condition continued. I visited VitaHound.com and decided to use their dog supplement. I have only been adding it to her food for the past 10 but it is providing relief. I truly think this stuff is going to continue to work. I will report back and pay it forward for the helpful advice.

[theBCnut]

When we switched Micah, he lost his entire coat(not all at once) pretty quickly, but his new coat is so much better. His fur was dry and crunchy before, now it’s soft and shiny.