HoundDogMom might have the answer. She makes her own raw as well. I have a recipe book by Dr. Karen Becker/Beth Taylor and it actually gives all the breakdown of protein/fat/carbs as well as a nutrient analysis for all the recipes.
Probably more than 6 months. The top shelf is just random bones. The very bottom drawer is 36 lb of pork. The next shelf up is 100 lbs of tripe/tripe blend in the laundry basket. The next shelf up is 20 lbs of chicken hearts in the blue bag and 50 lbs of beef blend in the brown box. The next shelf up is homemade 16 oz containers and 20 lbs of beef heart. The door has bags of kidneys and some other random bones. That photo was from November 2012 when I got my first order of texastripe products (250 lbs) and filled the freezer up with the new products and what was in the freezer already . I rotate my homemade containers or put them across from the old ones. And when the tubes get low then I order some more and just put the few old tubes on top or move them to the door.
It varies. Tonight they are getting a sardine each. If they were eating only raw it would be about 19 ounces a day! BUT they eat kibble, canned, and freeze dried too. Those tubes in the freezer are 2 lbs each. I bought 180 lbs of tubes of tripe/tripe blend/beef blend/wild boar/organs.
Sandy, about how much raw do you feed in a day?
Thanks HDM. Things are looking better today for my baby. Shes acting a bit normal and been eating the Darwin’s Raw twice a day with no issues so I am really sure now that it was the bone marrow.
I do have a question though. I bought some Sardines in a can of water and was wondering if it is ok to give her and the others a half of one of those without any issues? They did not seem to have too much fat in them but I don’t want to rock the boat anymore with my baby either? Everyone else can probably handle them but I don’t want to give them something without her getting something too…shes just a bit spoiled š
I’m in raw4pets. I’m finding more and more options every day. I have got to get a new freezer!!
LOL! I just got a larger plate for the grinder. It’s more “chili-size”. I like it better than the smaller plate that the machine comes with. I’m saving lots of $$ by buying from a local supplier and also making my own grinds! Have you joined the yahoo group: carnivorefeed-supplier? There’s alot of raw food options out there.
Hi,
We suggest you add E-BARF Plus which is both and enzyme and probiotic to help with ease of transition to raw (no tummy upset) and also because she’s doing some kibble. Also Wild Salmon Oil for improving skin and coat conditions (both are in our Jump Start Bundle). Visit us at http://barfworld.com
Thanks!
Your friends over at BarfWorld
I’ve used them before for an epilepsy dog that was hard to pill. They have some ingredients that I would rather not use and if I knew then what I know now, I especially wouldn’t use them for a dog with epilepsy. Now I use braunschweiger(a soft liver sausage), soft cheese, a ball of raw ground beef, peanutbutter, a spoonful of yogurt, anything like that. I heard from someone the other day that they use a spoonful of honey.
Hey everyone, I’ve been feeding raw for a few months now and shadows doing great, the only thing that is the downfall is the prep time. What I’ve been doing is getting freezer bags and making meal sized portions for about a months worse and then thawing ad needed. It just makes such a mess in the kitchen and the prep and clean up time take about two hours together. Does anybody have any advice or tips on how to make prep time faster and less messy? Thanks!
Typically detox occurs when switching to a higher quality food – such as when switching from kibble (high carb, not species-appropriate) to balanced raw (low carb, species-appropriate).
Yeah we went through this again with the Brothers Allergy Formula but just not as long. I only notice it on her because she is black. So everytime I switch brands or proteins my dogs will go through a detox period? Well if the duck is lower in fat then I may give it a try and do what Darwin’s said to do and mix the turkey in with it. I would honestly like to stick with Raw but if it causes my Pancreatic girl issues then we will have no option but to switch her to a leaner food but so far the last 2 days shes been fine on it but she still is not like she was before he marrow bones. If I have to do it myself then I will but I am mainly concerned with balance if I go that route.
AnonymousInactive
Thanks for the recommendation Mindy, I recently sort of inherited a dog. The poor thing itched until her skin was raw, I first believed it was nerves, however the condition continued. I visited VitaHound and decided to use their dog supplement. I have only been adding it to her food for the past 10 but it is providing relief. I truly think this stuff is going to continue to work. I will report back and pay it forward for the helpful advice.
AnonymousInactive
Thanks for the recommendation Mindy, I recently sort of inherited a dog. The poor thing itched until her skin was raw, I first believed it was nerves, however the condition continued. I visited VitaHound.com and decided to use their dog supplement. I have only been adding it to her food for the past 10 but it is providing relief. I truly think this stuff is going to continue to work. I will report back and pay it forward for the helpful advice.
When we switched Micah, he lost his entire coat(not all at once) pretty quickly, but his new coat is so much better. His fur was dry and crunchy before, now it’s soft and shiny.
Generally duck is considered a fattier fowl – but it depends on what cuts of meat are being used. In the case of Darwin’s, the duck formula has less fat than the turkey – 22% in the duck and 27% in the turkey (dry matter basis). The increased shedding is probably detox – many dogs detox when switching from kibble to raw and shedding can be a sign.
I have been using Mercola enzymes for approx 3 months now and it has pancreatin in it. If there is another brand that you might think is better or has more in it that she could use please feel free to post it.
For now we are sticking with Turkey but before the Pancreatitis issue I spoke to Darwin’s about mixing in Duck and I recall the girl on the phone from Darwin’s said Duck is lower in fat? I was talking to a co-worker about it and she ordered her yorkie the turkey and she said it made her yorkie very sick but I would bet she did not do a slow transition. I asked her about trying Duck because her dog was on a duck kibble and she said Duck was too high in fat from what she read up on the different proteins??
Also something I noticed more of is that since we switched to Raw my Chihuahua that had the Pancreatitis has been dropping fur like crazy, shes a black short coat chihuahua. Last time that happened my vet said it was due to her missing something in her diet and so that is when we started food searching, we were using Azmira back then.
All dogs (even raw fed) should poop at least once a day. My dogs have been on raw for almost two years and all three poop once or twice a day. Hopefully her stool issues clear up once she gets uses to her new raw diet.
Do you supplement with digestive enzymes? Enzyme supplements that include pancreatin, in some cases, is believed to help reduce the risk of acute pancreatitis or control chronic pancreatitis. Pancreatin is comprised of the amylase, lipase and protease produced by the pancreas. The idea is that adding supplemental pancreatin to the diet of a pancreatitis prone dog will lessen the stress on the dog’s pancreas. Another option would be a pancreas glandular – most glandulars are derived from bovine sources so I’m not sure if that would trigger a sensitivity (I know you’re trying to stick to turkey for the time being). Just some things to consider.
It doesn’t have to be all white as long as it is lean turkey, dark meat has different fats than white meat and they have important nutrients in them too.
A recap. Gemma is almost ten, we got her in January. She came to us toothless. She was fed The Honest Kitchen with Darwin’s. Two or three weeks after we to her, she got “stopped up”. Had to go to vets where he got an enema. The Darwin’s had larger pieces of bone, we didn’t know exactly what caused the issue but we bought Bravo Balance that has smaller pieces.
I had grinds from Hare Today for the other dogs….in talking with Hare, she advised me that Gemma probably needs more meat. No more THK, we started adding some Hare to the Bravo.
She has trouble pooping, now she goes one little poop every other day. I realize that raw fed dogs don’t always go daily but I’m not anxious to repeat her being stopped again. I called Bravo, was told the Balance is 10% organ, 15% veggies….of the rest, 60% is meat and 40% is bone. Too much bone for Gemma. She’s off the Balance now, going on all Hare, both bone in and bone less.
Can’t just be easy, eh?
Thank you!! I am going to give it a shot and a slow transition. I wrote to Steve and he answered back very quickly and was very helpful so I am off to shop. Steve recommended that I feed as low in fat protein as possible to my one chihuahua that has Panceratitis and he also recommended sardines ( in water) not oil once a week or fish oil. He said I can feed veggies and fruits and probably should with my Pancreatitis girl. turkey is what we have been feeding so I imagine he means all white lean turkey.
All you need to add is meat and fish oil or tinned sardines. You can add extras (such as vegetables) but the extras are optional and should comprise no more than 20% of the meal. The volume would be similar to other raw foods – about 2% to 3% of the dog’s body weight.
I sure hope so Patty. I was looking at the Steve Browns website and it does not mention anything about adding extra veggies or fruits to the mix. Do you just add Raw or cooked Turkey to it and that is it? How do you know how much to feed at each meal? I looked throughout the website and may have missed it somewhere.
If she is eating the Darwin’s turkey now and doing fine, she may be fine with it. This is the time frame when she should be most likely to relapse. I would still look for something lower fat to at least alternate with.
Yes HDM Darwin’s did tell me that the fat levels were lower after we talked about my dogs Pancreatits issue. I am going to check out Steve Browns supplement and decide where to go from there.
Shelties Mom I give Mercola digestive enzymes at every meal and also probiotics and spirugreen superfood once a day. We started the Spirugreen 2 weeks ago and the Enzymes and probiotics about 3 months ago. I need a balance and possibly thinking of cooking the girls meat and adding in veggies but I know I need balance so I am out to search for that also. I have a product I ordered specifically for mixing with cooked or Raw mixture by Dr Jones and it is called Ultimate Canine Formula.
Thank you all. So far for the last 2 days she has had her Raw Darwin’s turkey meals and seems to be getting better but maybe thats because shes on Metronidazole. I am searching other avenues though.
Please disregard any typos – I’m having to post from my phone as I’m getting the boot from
the forums when I try to use my laptop.
Hi NectarMom –
If Darwin’s telling you the fat levels aren’t what I told you then they’re likely trying to give you the “unconverted” fat levels. To obtain the true fat level it’s necessary to convert the fat to a dry matter basis (same goes for protein) – to get an accurate representation of the nutrient values this is especially crucial for foods with high levels of moisture (raw and canned). Darwin’s general analysis states that the food has 7% fat, but the food is 74% water (this means the fat levels are much higher they’re just diluted by the water). To calculate you first need to determine the percentage of dry matter, we’ll do this by subtracting the wet matter from 100%: 100% – 74% moisture = 26% dry matter (this means that for every 100 g. food you feed 74 g. are water and 26 g. are actual food, this is why the fat levels appear lower than what they actually are on the general analysis). Next, we divide the “as fed” fat level provided on the general anlysis by the percentage of dry matter we just calculated: 7% fat/26% dry matter = 0.26923. We now want to convert this value to a percentage: 0.26923 X 100% = ~27% fat. This is the only accurate way to truly compare fat levels because for example, the fat levels for kibble are practically on a dry matter basis. Kibble is generally only 10% moisture so if the fat level is, say, 15% on an as fed basis the “true” fat level is 17% (doesn’t change much). I hope all that makes sense.
My question is this – did Darwin’s tell you the fat levels I stated were higher that what the actual fat levels after you told them your dog got pancreatitis? They should have a general analysis with all the nutrient values on a dry matter basis and to try and fool you into believing what I told you is not accurate – especially after when you have a dog with pancreatitis – tells me they’re either 1) clueless or 2) trying to be deceptive in an attempt to sell food. I’m not a fan of Darwin’s customer service so neither would surprise me.
I’m going to have to agree with Patty – use a pre-mix and make your own food using extra lean ground turkey. Steve Brown has a great balancer powder that’s specifically designed to balance the fats in poultry (seespotlivelonger.com).
Oh ok wow well that makes it very limited. I would definitely do turkey necks and wings. Another great place to order meat from is blue ridge beef. They have a great selection of meat for great prices
Backs are high fat and she can’t do chicken. But the idea is good, getting something like HK Preference and making food from fresh turkey may be the best way to go.
Nectar mom,
If I were you, I would go to the butcher, get some chicken backs and necks, turkey necks, any muscle meat on sale, and start from there. It is much cheaper than Darwin’s, and you can see exactly what is going into your dogs meals. It’s also a lot easier to tweak.
That is what I am afraid of with Darwin’s if the fat level is indeed what HDM has stated then to continue feeding it to my dog would only put her life in danger. Darwin’s tells me the fat is not as high as HDM said but at the same time I trust HDM advice too so this is why I am confused on what to do. I won’t be feeding the marrow bones ever again but I am stumped on the Darwin’s?
After pancreatitis, fat levels are a big factor in recurance.
Sleep hasn’t been my friend this week o I’m not comprehending. If the marrow bones caused the issue, why would you need to stop feeding Darwin’s? Just stop the bones; am I missing something?
You couldn’t have known that this would happen, so try not to be so hard on yourself. Yes, you can open the package, use part, and store the rest in the fridge for later.
I don’t know which way to turn now. Should I keep her on Raw from Darwin’s and only that or find a kibble that she can tolerate? I am pretty sure it was the marrow bone because before that she was fine the whole month on Raw turkey meals. The vet has her on Cerenia and Metronidazole and said she should feel better in a couple of days and she did eat this morning 1/4 Darwins and then this afternoon I gave her about 10 pieces of Brothers Allergy kibble but I don’t know if I should give her anymore or just let her system relax and give her some in the morning. If I open a 1/2lb package of Darwins if I don’t use it all right then can I put it in a baggy and use it later that evening? I just hate that I did this to her š
That’s too bad NectarMom. Most dogs can tolerate very high levels of fat but they should be worked up to it slowly. Raw typically has much higher levels of fat than commercial food, so dogs should have their fat levels increased incrementally. Many raw meaty bones and recreational bones (especially marrow bones) are extremely high in fat and should be avoided until the dog is well acclimated to its new raw diet and higher levels of fat.
NectarMom, I’m sorry to hear that.
My one Chihuahua with intestinal allergies has mild Pancreatitis from the marrow bones. At least that is what the vet said it could very well be and Darwin’s also said it was more than likely the marrow bones since they told me the Raw turkey meals are 12% Protein and 6% Fat in a wet matter which Raw is and plus we have now been on the Raw for a solid month and no issues until the marrow bones so those who have dogs with intestinal issues just beware marrow bones are really high in fat.
Sorry, no help here as my pugs rarely get bathed but I thought a shiny coat came from “within”. I did notice though that when I added raw food and fish oil that my black one was softer and shinier. I get alot of dull black/rusty black fosters.
I would say that you are right about the BPA and they are deceptive or the person on the phone is pig ignorant. Which, unfortunately, is a real option. Before you start making your own food, make sure you do the research. An unbalanced raw food may be worse for your dog than a little PBA. The easiest way to get started is to buy one of the premixes that you just add meat to. That gives you time to research more, before you are completely making your own.
Thank for the information.
Thanks HDM. I’m been wanting to reconcile my supplements! Seems I’ve got too many! I’ve been thinking of some whole food vits too. I’ve started using Garden of Life Raw Meal and it’s a bunch of sprouted grains/nuts/seeds, probiotics, enzymes, greens. I’ve been giving him 1 teaspoon with his meals. http://www.vitacost.com/garden-of-life-organic-raw-meal-vanilla-2-5-lbs
I’m also feeding him canned food and a little bit of kibble. When hubby feeds he just does kibble. He still gets around for his age! Still uses the doggy door!
My 3 pug mixes I have right – they’re a wee bit cra-cra!! Absolutely bonkers! I’d rather have a dozen old full pugs!
Sandy, marrow has a high level of fat but it also has other things that have protein in them and the bone itself has some protein in it. Darwin’s marrow bones are pretty well cleaned off but not completely cleaned off.
I give a whole food supplement, a supergreen, fish oil and vit E, and ACV with the mother. Plus occasionals like garlic, coconut oil, probiotics, that sort of thing.
Nectar mom, when I first started my Weimaraner on raw I gave him a lamb leg bone that was very fatty. At 2 am that night, he had gotten up twice throwing up fat and pieces of bone. Sometimes there is just too much fat. Are you new to raw? If so, your pups stomachs may have just not been ready to tolerate such a high fat level.
Blurose,
Usually 2-3% of your dog’s body weight per day and adjust for his activity level. I have small indoor dogs so they would eat just under 2% if they were just eating raw but they eat a variety of foods. Hounddogmom has a list of supplements she gives in the raw food menus thread I think. Maybe she will see this post and chime in. I do give a supergreen supplement and fish oil.
NectarMom,
Sorry to hear about the situation. I didn’t think that “fat” had proteins in it. So I’m not sure about an intolerance other than from the amount of fat itself. Maybe a limited amount of time with the marrow bones at first and then slowly let them have it for longer periods of time. If you think your dogs can’t have the marrow bones, you can get the marrow out by boiling and stuff the empty bones with something else so they can still gnaw on them – like yogurt or even stuff some of the Darwin’s turkey in there and refreeze so they have to work to get it out.
I an thinking about switching my 70 pound Golden Retriever to a raw food diet. How do you determine the amount of food to give each day? I am planning on using frozen raw with bone already incorporated. Also, would I need to add any supplements? Thank you for your help.
2 months, 1 week ago
