[Tigerlily]

Well, clearly! 🙂 I am curious as to how they deviate. I know quite a few breeders who consider these to be very appropriate foods for large breed puppies so am surprised to see them not included on the list of appropriate foods.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi tigerlily –

Those foods aren’t on the list because they aren’t appropriate for large/giant breed puppies.

[londoncalling1996]

I will do that Patty, I will get together some articles and talk to them about it. It would be interesting to hear their take on it.

Thanks for the info about the mast cell tumors, I have done some research and if it’s grade 1 and they get it all the prognosis is very good!! I didn’t realize it used to be “a matter of time”. I’m hoping that’s not the case here. After losing our first Berner at 3-1/2 years, we were so heartbroken, we couldn’t get another one. Then after almost 7 years, we went ahead and got Lux. This is terribly heart breaking. But, I am HOPING for the best, so we’ll see!

Cheers,
Jules

Correction, I’m feeding Lux a rotation of Wellness and WERUVA canned food, not Kobe. Kobe is the specific type of Weruva, with Kobe beef.

[Tigerlily]

I am wondering why Acana Duck and Bartlett Pear and Acana Chicken and Burbank potato were not included on the list of grain inclusive foods that are appropriate for large breed puppies?

[londoncalling1996]

Thanks Patty, Marie and Hound Dog Mom! We are hanging in there. My BFF was diagnosed about 1-3/4 years ago and it’s been a struggle, hoped for a long time that she’d beat it, but it’s not happening. She is doing fairly well in her spirit. Saying goodbye to people. Working on getting her cancer experience blog published and just coming to terms with letting go of everything, including life. Now, if only I can come to terms with her dying!

Anyhow, since this is a dog food forum, I’ll try to get back to that, but first about Lux, I have done some research on MAST cell tumors and it’s not all bad. If all goes well, checking her whole body as often as daily as we can for the rest her life might be the worst.

We will know around mid-week or so what “grade” the tumor is and if they got it all.

As far as the food situation goes, when the Vet (a she, btw) told me not to worry about too calcium, but to worry about giving Lux too much protein, I have to admit, I did think I trust HDM and the advise and things I’ve learned and I’ve gotten here more than her! Yikes. It is scary to think about what Vets are telling people. I told her we’re feeding Lux 3 cups of food a day, 1 cup X 3 a day. She said to stay with 3 cups (Lux weighs 33.4 pounds), but change to to twice a day instead of 3 times a day. I know I was going to have to do that eventually, but man, the way Lux acts like she’s absolutely STARVING every time we feed her, I’ve been reluctant to reduce the times per day!

Anyhow, then I told the vet that I give Lux a mixture of wet and kibble, 25% canned, rotating between Wellness stews and Kobe, and 75% Fromm’s kibble (Surf and Turf and Beef Frittata). She said to cut the canned food out, that it has too much fat. She said I need to limit protein and fat so Lux doesn’t have ortho problems later.

I don’t know how to address this with them, as I do believe this is one of the best vet clinics in the area. and I don’t know enough about it to make an argument with them so they look into and give better advise to their clients.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I wouldn’t feed Petcurean to a large breed puppy. All of their foods are too high in calcium.

[jamie_aa]

HDM…

Ok i think now i am switching my food choice again… Please Help me! I was going to do a mix between petcurean and Fromm thinking it would be the best for my puppy, but again the more I read the more I am learning. You have so many to choose from on your list so I wanted to see what your top five choices might be? I will be adding 20% percent of my homemade raw diet to it a day. Again I will have a Saint Bernard 8 weeks old puppy and i just want her to have a great start on life. I just dont want to be spending a lot on a bag of dog food “Petcurean”, if there is an even better one out there that i could be giving her for the same price of even cheaper. I am willing to order the food online if i have to….

[Mom2Cavs]

Zignature is a fairly new food on the market, but I feel it’s a fine food. I’m actually using the Trout in my rotation. I can’t speak about using it for a large breed puppy, which needs a certain calcium/phosphorus percentage, because I have small adult breeds. However, I believe it might be fine in that regard. I’m sure someone will let you know regarding that.

Also, please read the Large and Giant Breed Nutrition thread on this forum. You will find foods on there that are appropriate for a large breed puppy. I’m not sure is Zignature is on there. Like I said, it’s fairly new so even if it’s ok it might not be there. Maybe Hound Dog Mom will post soon. 🙂

• This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by Mom2Cavs.

[londoncalling1996]

Hi Kobe’d dad,

I have a 17 week old Berner that tolerates Fromm just fine. I’m started with a big bag of Surf and Turf and now we’re into a bag of Beef Frittata Veg. I mix in canned food, switching around between different Wellness stews and Kobe varieties. I mix 25% canned, 75% kibble.

I wonder how much you feed Kobe? Last vet visit Lux was 29 pounds. I know she’s more that that now! I’ve been giving her 3 cups of the mixed food, (1 cup 3 times) a day. Plus a little of the mix in a kong I freeze and give to her when I put her in her crate for the night, plus she gets little tidbits of training treats during the day. But, you’d think we’re STARVING her. Yesterday found a shredded bit left of a pair of my underwear. My 16 yr old daughter said there was some fabric hanging out of Lux’s butt yesterday that she was biting at, so my daughter helped her and pulled it out. So gross. Seems like we have our old Berner, Bailey back. He’s been gone for 7 years now and man did I go thru underwear back then! Crazy. I guess it’s in the breed. Some form of Prader Willi or something!

[InkedMarie]

Kobe’s dad: somewhere on this very thread is a list of foods appropriate for large breed puppies.

[theBCnut]

Some info first. Is your Dobie expected to be a large or medium sized dog. Dobies as a breed are right on the border and large breed dogs have growth issues that have to be taken into consideration. Personally I would feed as if you are planning on her being large, better safe than sorry. In which case you should read the Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition thread so you are aware of what the issues are. There are 2 google docs on that thread that are lists of foods that are appropriate for large breed nutrition. The second one is more up to date and complete. I think it’s somewhere around page 15.

[InkedMarie]

I’m not HDM but I have tried Prairie with two different dogs and both had pudding poop. Not diarrhea but still. Why are those foods your only choice? If you absolutely must choose between those foods, I would go with Earthborn and Zignature.

[EHubbman]

Thank you for the info!

My little dude is on RX food right now, trying to figure out a kibble he can switch to after some major tummy issues. Going to get him stable on that and then go into partial raw/full raw. We’ll see. Thanks again!

[theBCnut]

There is a variety of reasons for rotational feeding. As Marie mentioned, in case of recall or any other reason your usual food is not available, you can just switch to whatever was next on your list. As Emily mentioned, it helps keep the gut used to getting different things. One of the things going on here that you may not be aware of is that a particular set of nutrients feeds a particular population of probiotics. By varying nutrition, you maximize the number of different strains of probiotics that can live in the gut. This provides a huge boost to the immune system, since a huge part of the immune system is the gut. Also, all dog food brands have certain things that they are high in and certain things they are low in. By switching brands, you make sure your dog isn’t always exposed to those same levels of the same nutrients.

[InkedMarie]

Mrs Nix, I forgot to say that dr Karen Becker, on Mercola Healthy Pets, has an article on what types of foods are best; dry is least favorable. Glad EHubbman chimed in about gut health.

E: I honestly have no rhyme or reason. I don’t feed raw daily but when I do, I feed it for breakfast and dinner is about ten hours later. We haven’t had any problems doing so.

[MrsNix]

Thanks, Marie (and Hubbman…I didn’t see your post while I was typing this one).

I had not considered that. I only knew that switching foods could (and usually did) cause upset stomach. It never occurred to me that switching would make the digestive system stronger. We’re going to start Cadence (that’s what we’ve named the new coonhound puppy) on Nature’s Variety Large Breed Puppy kibble. I like to use canned pumpkin as a food topper and canned green beans/fresh bell pepper/fresh carrots cut into small pieces as training treats.

I will make sure we have another couple of food brands we approve of to start mixing in/rotating in as the bag gets down to 1/2 or so. I really had not ever even considered switching foods regularly. It makes sense, though. I was reading articles from Google after I posted the above, and from your post, it seems like a very practical idea, as well.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by MrsNix.

[EHubbman]

Also not Patty, but along with what Marie was saying, it also works well to keep your dog’s gut active and able to adjust to changes more, is something I’ve found in the past.
No food is ever complete, so rotating also helps to balance a diet, and keep it interesting for your pups. (I wouldn’t like eating the same thing every day for my entire life, I know that!)

Marie/anyone- You say you rotate with pre-made raw and grinds; do you keep a certain amount of time between kibble/raw? I’ve been reading a few things that you need to wait XX hours between kibble/raw because kibble slows the gut down, which can let bad bacteria from the raw cultivate in the gut. Then others say that it doesn’t matter so much. Your thoughts?

• This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by EHubbman.

[InkedMarie]

Mrs Nix: I’m not Patty but I’m going to answer anyway. I like to rotate for a few reasons. What if your current food had a recall, wasn’t made anymore, you couldn’t get it or forgot to buy the next bag? If you had a few different brands that your dog can eat, you won’t be “caught”. I order almost all food online and if something I feed is on sale, I can take advantage of the sale.

I also use various types of foods: kibble, canned, dehydrated, pre made raw & grinds.

[kobe]

Hi HOUND DOG MOM,

thanks for your assistance-BUT have had Kobe for 11 weeks and have finally concluded that his episodes of diarrhea most likely were from the attempt to transition from Hills I AND D TO PRAIRIE LARGE BREED PUPPY FORMULA–the confusion and delay making this conclusion was that he did have recurrent giardia initially!!

i need your advice:
i have been giving him boiled chicken twice a daymixed in with 1/2 cup of kibble-and rice—-the third meal is just 1 cup of kibble with rice-no chicken–also probiotic twice a day

my choices to try to transition him to are EARTHBORN MEADOW FEAST OR COASTAL KIBBLE VS ZIGNATURE KIBBLE VS SOLID GOLD LARGE PUPPY FOOD VS NATURAL BALANCE LIMITED INGREDIENT KIBBLE
to be honest, i have NO CLUE IF what to choose next to try—-
i appreciate any advice on what you would try for my 5 month old bernese pup-if you have a different brand-please dont hold back your preference

i really need to get him on something both nutritious,safe and tolerable

thanks again,
Kobe”s dad

[MrsNix]

PattyV – You mentioned rotational feeding. When we were trying the Nature’s Variety Prairie foods with our beagle, we rotated the different flavors, but I’m assuming you mean something different. Would you explain for me how you rotate food properly or give me a link you like that explains?

I’ve never heard of doing this, and I’m interested to learn about it.

[InkedMarie]

HDM, excellent post about grains in food….it should be a stickie. I just had a bit of an argument with someone who thinks any grainfree trumps any grain inclusive.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi kobe –

For a dog without sensitivities to grains, I think that whether or not a kibble contains grains is not important. The ideal diet of a dog would be grain-free and free of starches, however this isn’t feasible with a kibble. Kibble is a bakery product and therefore must contain grain or some other starch (legumes, tapioca, potato, etc.) as a binder. The idea of “grain-free” food and, more recently, “white potato free” food has become a fad – many people are under the [false] impression that because a food is grain-free or white potato free that it’s “species”appropriate” and superior to foods with grains. The reality is, tapioca, legumes or potatoes are no more “species-appropriate” than grains. In fact, I’m seeing may “grain-free” foods hitting the market that are predominately potatoes or peas. The most important thing to look for the the level of animal-derived protein. I recommend looking for foods with at least 30% protein with over 80% of this protein coming from animal-sources. Many of the best kibbles on the market do tend to be grain-free, however their are also may poor quality grain-free kibbles available and many very high quality grain-inclusive kibbles available. Hope this helps.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi jamie aa –

I tend to prefer more calorically-dense foods as I’ve always had difficulty keeping weight on my dogs, especially as pups. Calorie content really doesn’t matter as long as you adjust the portion sizes accordingly – don’t let your dog get too thin on a low calorie food or too heavy on a high calorie food. I agree with Patty that 409 kcal. per cup sis pretty standard for a high quality food, 328 sounds low to me (especially for a puppy or als food).

[jamie_aa]

Thanks! So would you rather see her eat an even higher calorie food then the 409 kcal/cup? Its just so hard when you have so many foods to choose from and they all have different calorie amounts.

[theBCnut]

Personally, I would rather feed less of a higher calorie food, just in case meal size really does have something to do with bloat. Just make sure you are feeding to keep her thin while she is still growing.

[jamie_aa]

Hi there.

would you recommend a lower calorie diet for my Saint Bernard? I will be getting her in 4 weeks and she will be 8 weeks old. I am looking between two dog foods, and one has 328 kcal/cup and the other has 409 kcal/cup. I have done the calculation on calcium and they both are 2.8 per 1,000 kcal which i like, but now its just deciding on if she needs those extra calories or not??

[kobe]

thank you so much Mrs.Nix

to HDM AND MRS.NIX,

MY BERNESE PUP HAS HAD GIARDIA TWICE- I BELEVE IT IS GONE BUT I HAVE ONE QUESTION–MY DOG TYPICALLY HAS STOOLS THAT ARE MOSTLY SOLID BUT THE END OF WHICH IS QUITE SOFT AND NOT AS FORMED-IS THIS A POTENTIAL CONCERN?

LASTLY-TO HOUND DOG MOM–THE ISSUE OF GRAIN CONTAINING FOODS VS NO GRAIN–WHAT DO YOU THINK OBJECTIVELY? DO DOGS THRIVE BETTER ON ONE OR THE OTHER?IF THERE ARE NO CORN ALLERGIES-IS THERE A REASON TO USE GRAIN-FREE?

THANKS AGAIN

KOBES’S DAD

[MrsNix]

Oh! I just want to add that I don’t think Pinnacle would necessarily be a good choice for large breed pups. I haven’t looked at the calcium content. I only mentioned that food in reference to our 22-pound adult beagle. Please don’t think I was recommending that brand for big dogs. It might be great, but it might not be. I would have to research it.

[MrsNix]

Hi, Kobe! Somewhere in this long discussion, and I’m sure Hound Dog Mom can tell you more about how she feels about grain inclusive foods, but she mentions that she only included grain-free because that is her preference. She doesn’t believe that a grain inclusive food is a bad choice for everyone, but she prefers to feed her bloodhounds grain free. I’m sure she can expand on that for you.

Our beagle, who is no longer with us, had a severe corn allergy and sensitivity to both rice and wheat. Our first instinct was to just chuck it all and go with a combination of foods I prepared myself and grain free kibble (which was very hard to find in 2007 in Okinawa where we lived). She was not thriving on a totally grain-free diet, and we tried a lot of different things over about a year. She had runny stools; she was not very energetic; and her coat was not as glossy and she shed more than she ever had before. Grain free diets bring out the best in some dogs. They thrive on it and it does amazing things for them. Our little dog did not thrive on a totally grain free diet, so we looked for something else.

I eventually came upon Pinnacle brand foods, which are also 5-star dog foods, but they include quinoa and oats. She did extremely well on the Pinnacle. Within a couple of weeks, her coat looked better and her stools firmed up to normal. She was back to being “on the beagle crack” as we always said when she was her hyper-and-needs-exercise normal self.

I don’t believe that Hound Dog Mom or anyone else with the best interests of all dogs would say that the same diet is best for ALL individuals, but grain-free is helping a lot of dogs who cannot seem to thrive on foods containing grain.

[theBCnut]

Kobe

HDM made a new list that has grain inclusive foods on it too. It is somewhere around pages 12-15.

[kobe]

hi Hound dog mom,

thanks for your valuable and much needed info!
a few followup issues
first, when you say rotate foods-you you nean waiting until a bag is finished and THEN using a different potein source? or do you mean rotating foods more frequently?
again,what do you think of zignature kibble?
has there ever been a recall on Zignature products?

thanks again,
kobe:’s dad

[jamie_aa]

Hey there. My family is getting a Saint Bernard female in four weeks and i am trying to prepare her for a long and healthy life and lets just say thank goodness i did my research and thank you for your links they really helped! So i am trying to decide between the Fromm dog food and this petcurean that the guy at the pet shop also recommended. It seems really good but i am concerned why it is not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles? Do you know if this is a good brand?

[apriliamille]

hello all, i just read the entire thread and whew tons of information. i have a few questions but wanted to also make a few comments if they would help as well.

my 7 month old doberman girl is a rocket eater. so fast she throws up. i found i was able to slow her down by using one of our deep wall cookie sheets for her food. prior to this she would eat so fast that she would finish in time, throw up, eat again and then go and try to ninja the boxer’s food while he was eating. now the boxer finishes first and stares at her eating. a nice cheap solution to speed eating.

i saw a couple posts on high value treats. i live in central utah and we have a meat and game processing locker here called fords. they sell dog jerky treats that my girl goes bonkers over during our track training. i messed up a small ziplock baggie thats in our training pack and whew, the leash harness and toys smelled like the jerky the next session. they sell them on ebay for 15 bucks / 2 pounds free ship

hound dog mom, thank you soooo much for the information docs. one of the pages back i saw where dr tim was removed from the 2nd list but man it took me 3 hours to get through the whole thread. was it due to it not saying puppy or ALS on the packaging? i cant remember. This list came at a very fortunate time for me. we love our food we feed but due to a short term financial crisis emergency i have to reduce costs untill i get back on my feet. luckily i have 70 pounds of her current food available for her to help with a transition. im hoping to find something i can supplement her current with until i get back on my feet (i hope that makes sense). i was starting off thinking after the first doc of either earthborn or dr tim. but then the 2nd doc came out. any suggestions on this?

also we have a facebook group that is for our zip code regional for pets. may i share your doc on that for others to look at?

[theBCnut]

Hi MrsNix

Thank you for fostering and helping out needy dogs. We’re glad you found your way here. While you are researching, looking for the right food for your new pup, please look into the concept of rotational feeding too. Feeding a few different brands will help keep your pups intestinal health optimal which provides a huge boost to the immune system.

[MrsNix]

My name is Amy, and we have always been hound people. Up until this point, we have been beagle and Basset owners/fosterers, so I don’t have any experience with large breeds. We lost our darling companion, Kioko the Wonder Beagle, last year, and we are just now ready for a new dog. We have chosen a redbone coonhound pup who will come home to us in early October. She will grow to somewhere between 60 and 70 pounds as an adult dog, and that will make her roughly 3.5 times the weight of our previous dogs (except for our foster Bassets, but we never raised any of them through puppyhood). Before she comes home, I wanted to make sure I knew what the different needs would be for a large dog, so I found my way here.

As someone who believes very strongly in getting a dog’s nutrition right (we want them to be healthy and happy with us for as long as we possibly can), I cannot thank you enough–and especially Hound Dog Mom–for this thread. It is a HUGE relief to me to find your .doc list (thank you SO much for putting that together), and this entire conversation has been enlightening.

I haven’t chosen a food for sure, yet, but we are leaning toward the Nature’s Variety Instinct products because they are easy to obtain and, for 5-star foods, well-priced. Anyway, I registered so I could come in and thank you all for this discussion. You’ve helped us tremendously.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi kobe –

The trout and salmon formula is appropriate for large breed puppies. They recently came out with two new formulas – duck and zssential (a multi-protein formula) – and I haven’t had a chance to look into either of those formulas yet. While I do believe you should reserve a couple novel protein sources in the even that your dog ever does develop allergies, there’s no reason to avoid a limited ingredient kibble just because your dog doesn’t have food allergies. In fact, I prefer single protein kibbles so that when I rotate I know my dog isn’t getting exposed to the same protein source daily. My dogs eat raw now and I only feed one protein per meal.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi shilohsue –

I don’t believe that I ever got the calcium levels from OC Raw – I’ll have to look into it. It does look like a good food though (ingredient-wise) and I’ve spoken to their customer service on a few occasions for other reasons, not related to calcium, and they were friendly.

[kobe]

Dear Hound Dog Mom,

thanks again for your info!!
one last question–what do YOU think of Zignature kibble?-i just received samples of a limited ingredient kibble with the Zignature label
do you think it meets your requirements –or not–to feed a 5 month old bernese puppy?
also, is it better to avoid limited ingredient kibble if my pup has no food allergies?

your advice is much appreciated

Kobe’s dad

[Sue’s Zoo]

Thanks again HDM for all the great advice. I visited a high end food shop with a very good friend/dog trainer/vet tech today. She knows the owner. He recommended OC Raw. It’s not on your recommended list but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen it mentioned on this thread. But it’s almost impossible to search unless I’ve missed something. I did ask about the kcals and a some are under your suggested limit and it’s a 5 star food on DFA. Can you please give me your impressions (again?)?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Kobe’s Dad –

The calcium percentages listed on the website/package are lower than what I stated because websites an packaging typically (as is the case with Earthborn) state the guanteed minimum level of calcium (this is why it says “min”) – not the actual level of calcium or maximum which is what is important. The actual level is often quite a bit higher than the minimum. For all the foods on my list I contacted the companies directly to obtain the actual amount of calcium (from lab analysis).

It’s not necessary for a canned (or dry food) to be labeled for large breed puppies – it just needs to have appropriate calcium levels and be approved for growth/als. If you’re just using the canned food as a topper (20% or less of the diet) I wouldn’t worry about calcium levels.

Weruva is a great, high quality food. I believe their dog formulas are approved for adult maintenance only – this is fine if you’re just using the canned as a topper but it wouldn’t be appropriate as a sole diet for a puppy.

[88laly99]

hi all want to know. what food I can give my great dane 6 months that is not too expensive. and of good quality.?

[kobe]

hi HDM,

i appreciate all the above and i am learning more from you than my vet!!
a few more basic questions
first,how come the EARTHBORN puppy kibble ha a listed calcium perctage i believe less than what you were told? i will also double check on the EARTHBORN web page.
second,do you recommend wet food that is labeled as for puppies–i dont think their are wet foods titled for large breed pups—OR should i stay away from wet foods advertised for puppies?
third, my maine coon cats love weruva wet food–as you know this company makes a dog wet food too-any feelings or recomendations on using weruva wet food for dogs as an add on to kibble?
LASTLY,when i first got the pup, i was told that a well known Berner breeder was using Natural Balance limited ingredient-duck formulas-my veterinarian did not recommend this-stating that limited ingredient kibble should not be first-line in an otherwise healthy dog-rather should be reserved if an allergy develops AND duck shoud not be the firstchoice but shuld also be reserved for dogs who cant tolerate chicken,lamb etc-DO YOU AGREE WUTH THIS?

THANKS AGAIN FORALL YOUR MUCH NEEDED HELP!!
KOBE”S DAD

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Kobe –

Based on the information provided to me by the Earthborn rep when I spoke to him on the phone, the grain-inclusive Puppy Vantage is not appropriate for large or giant breed puppies. Most veterinary nutritionists recommend large or giant breed puppies consume no more than 3.5 g. calcium per 1,000 kcal. I was told by the rep that the max calcium level in the Puppy Vantage is 1.61% – this equates to 4.19 g. calcium per 1,000 kcal. which is too high.

I can’t guarantee that switching to a grain-free kibble will or will not cause digestive upset as all dogs are different. What I would suggest is doing a gradual transition – 25% new/75% old for 3 – 4 days, 50% new/50% old for 3 – 4 days, 75% new/25% old for 3 – 4 days until you’re up to 100% new. I would also recommend adding a tablespoon on plain canned pumpkin and a probiotic supplement to each meal during the transition period. The fiber in the pumpkin and probiotics should help to minimize digestive upset.

A wet food is not more likely to cause digestive upset than a dry food, it just depends on the individual dog and whether or not the dog handles new foods. Trying new foods will be a good way to determine whether or not your dog has a healthy gut. Dogs that don’t have healthy guts (the balance of microflora in their gut is off) do not tolerate changes in food, I truly healthy dog can switch from food to food with no transition and not experience digestive upset. Rotating foods helps to strengthen the gut.

The wet food can be from the same company as the dry but it doesn’t have to be. A general rule of thumb is that 1 large can of wet food (usually around 13 oz.) is roughly the caloric equivalent of 1 C. of kibble. So adjust your dog’s kibble intake based on how much wet food you want to feed. For example, if he’s eating 3 C. kibble per day and you wanted to start giving him 1 large can per day you would give 2 C. dry + 1 can. If you do decide to go with Earthborn’s wet foods, keep in mind they come in smaller tubs (9 oz.) versus the traditional 13 oz. cans so I’d say one of their tubs would be the equivalent of about 3/4 C. kibble.

[kobe]

to HDM,
thanks so much-i will take you up on your offer for follow-up

first, on friday -i called the nutrition person on staff at EARTHBORN–he told me that their grain puppy kibble was suitable for a large breed puppy-can you briefly let me know what this kibble is lacking for my large-70 pond 5 month old bernese puppy?
second,will i have gi issues meaning diarrhea– with my puppy if i switch him to a grain free kibble–since i have had him -he has only received grain containing kibble?
third,are wet STEWS such as EARTHBORN makes-more likely to cause gi symptoms than more solid type of wet foods?
fourth,should the add-on wet food be from the same company as the dry kibble being used?
LAST BUT NOT LEAST–can you recommend YOUR prefeerred wet foods to add-on to dry kibble and how much to add to what he gets now-1 cup of kibble 3x/day until he is 6 months of age?

again,HDM,i really appreciate your info. as a am quite a novice who needs help[ doing the best i can for Kobe!!

sincerely,
Kobe’Ss dad

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi shilohsure –

Pre-made raw food is very expensive and Primal is probably the most expensive brand of all. Pre-made raw really is financially impractical for large breed dogs and multi-dog households. If you want to feed raw I’d highly recommend researching homemade raw and learning to make your own. Homemade raw is higher quality than pre-made raw and it’s much cheaper. I’m currently spending under $200 per month to feed my two girls raw – they’re both around 70 lbs. and they each eat about 2 lbs. of meat/bone/organ + extras (eggs, kefir, veggies, supplements, etc.) per day. If you go to the raw food forum there’s a thread with recommended menus, you can check out what I feed my girls there. “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown is a great book for beginners getting started on homemade raw.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Kobe –

Earthborn’s grain-inclusive puppy formula isn’t appropriate for large breed puppies. Nature’s Variety has two grain-inclusive puppy foods that are appropriate for large breed puppies – Prairie Puppy and Prairie Large Breed Puppy. A food doesn’t have to be labeled for large breed puppies in order to be suitable – in fact, many foods that are labeled for large breed puppies are too high in calcium. Any food labeled for growth or all life stages with appropriate levels of calcium can be used. For the grain-free formulas, Earthborn’s Coastal Catch and Meadow Feast are both appropriate for large breed puppies and Nature’s Variety Instinct’s Rabbit and Limited Ingredient Turkey formulas are okay for large breed puppies. I personally prefer Nature’s Variety products to Earthborn products, but both have great foods – why not rotate between the two brands? There’s no reason to stick to only one brand, in fact it’s better if you don’t. Wet food is much healthier than dry food due to its higher moisture content and higher protein content – for this reason I would highly recommend mixing wet food with the dry. Wet food does not cause diarrhea. Hope this helps! Let me know if you have any more questions!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Mary –

Yes – I’d advise starting your pup on a rotational diet as soon as possible. Those are some great foods so it looks like you’re off to a good start! 🙂

[theBCnut]

Primal is an expensive way to go. Why don’t you look at getting some grinds from Hare Today or My Pet Carnivore and just giving about a half or quarter pound a day of raw mixed in with their kibble. Their grinds have good calcium:phosphorus ratios, so you don’t need to worry about that and as long as the grinds don’t make up a huge protion of their daily food, that is the only thing you need to worry about the balance on. That way they can have some of the benefits of raw without quite so much expense.

[Sue’s Zoo]

As much as I would love to feed all RAW, my puppy (and the next one we plan to get this fall) would end up costing about $800 a month on Primal when they’re only half grown!! That’s based on Primal’s feeding calculator on their webpage.

50lb puppy eating anything but beef requires a minimum of 14lbs/week (beef is 10lb/week). Best pricing is at PetFoodDirect averages approximately $40/6lb bag. So about $100/week! And that’s for one dog that’s only half grown.

Am I calculating something incorrectly??

Definitely will have to combine with kibble. But then I am totally confused about how much to feed! Please help!!

[kobe]

TO HDMOM,

Three quick questions for you–since my bernese puppy has just now recovered from giardia-total of 3 recurrences—is it a bad thing now to switch his kibble-since i am ALREADY slowly transitioning from HILLS I AND D TO natures variety Prairie large breed puppy kibble? I AM CONCERNED TO MUCH CHANGE TOO QUICKLY MAY THROW OFF HIS BOWEL FUNCTION AGAIN–
eventually ,i would like to try one of the EARTBORN KIBBLES-do you think that the earthborn puppy formula kibble is good for a large puppy breed?it isnt labeled as large puppy food—————-lastly, whicj EARTHBORN preparation you you recommend for a large breed puppy? i am concerned about my pup used to kibble with grain in that i dont know how his system will react to possible grain-free food!!
i value your experience and knowledge given my dog”s history with giardia– if you recommend EARTHBORN over NATURES VARIETY large greed puppy formula—then how long should i wait before changing the kibble and which form of EARTHBORN kibble would you recommend for my 5 month old bernese puppy?
in tems of EARTHBORN WET FOOD-it is a stew–should i avoid a stew for the pup–one store employee believes that stews are more likely to cause diarrhea–Do you recommend EARTHBORN stew for my pup as a small add on to his kibble?

sorry for picking your brain but i trust your judgement over the local store sales people and even local veterinarians!!

thanks so much,
Kobe’s dad