[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi cinner00 –

You’re definitely not bugging me, I don’t mind questions. 🙂

1) If he’s not on a grain-free food I would definitely go that route as grains are inflammatory – something you really want to avoid with arthritic dogs.

2) It will be very important to keep his weight down – being a healthy weight is probably one of the most important things for arthritic dogs. Any extra pounds are just extra stress on the joints. So I would definitely focus on getting him to a healthy weight (on the thin side is best). Unfortunately, like people, there’s really no easy way to get the pounds off. It’s calories in and calories out – the dog needs to burn more calories than it’s eating in order to lose weight. A deficit of about 3,500 kcal. equates to one pound. If he’s inactive it will be important to get him moving – this will not only help him to burn calories but it will also help to lubricate the joints and make him feel better. Start small and keep the activity low impact (i.e. leashed walking, swimming, etc.). Frequent activities of short duration are better than longer activities. I’m not sure exactly how active he his but something like 3 short (10-15) minute walks per day would probably make a big difference.

3) Glucosamine is great to help slow deterioration of the joint cartilage. However if he’s already arthritic he may benefit from some anti-inflammatory supplements as well. Some good options are turmeric (or curcumin), yucca, boswellia, bromelain or tart cherry. High doses of omega 3’s (up to 300 mg. per 10 lbs. of body weight) have an anti-inflammatory affect as well. I’ve also heard great things about esterified fatty acids (such as cetyl myristoleate). I recently started my senior on NOW Foods Celadrin & MSM which contains an esterified fatty acid complex with added MSM (Methylsulfonylmethane is a natural source of biologically active sulfur that helps maintain the structure of connective tissue).

4) You may also want to check out what are called “PROM (Passive Range of Motion) Exercises.” There are some great videos on You Tube demonstrating how to do PROM exercises with dogs. They help to maintain flexibility in the joints.

Good luck!

[InkedMarie]

Star right, since your dog had HD, getting any extra weight off her is very important. Help her lose the weight and get her a joint supplement (the one I mentioned wa recommended by HDM)

[Saireah]

Starbright:

My Quinn (lab/vizsla) was diagnosed with hip dysplasia at 1 year old. I switched her food to grain-free after discovering that, along with a higher protein. She needed to build muscle as she was favoring one side. She has hip dysplasia in both hips.

In terms of supplements, I can tell you what we’ve done that has made a phenomenal difference. She just turned two and there’s no way in the world I’d have thought she would be at this point. We were pretty certain she was going to need surgery (her range of motion was OK — but we just thought surgery would be more immediate than in the distant future).

As HDM suggests, a great diet with anti-inflammatory supplements was suggested to us by Iowa State University. Since being recommended, we’ve had her on Nutramax Cosequin DS Double-Strength Chewable Tablets. According to Iowa State, this is the only brand to be clinically proven. You will give her two a day for a month and one a day from then on (directions are on the bottle). Coupled with this, we also immediately started her on one tablet of fish oil per day — 1,000MG (but you may have to feed less/more — consult vet).

The diet change and supplements helped, but targeted exercise has made the difference, as well. Take your dog swimming. If she doesn’t like to swim, teach her to love it by way of rewards/playing. Swimming is the best for joint issues. Other options provided to us were walking in tall grass (makes her lift her legs all the way as opposed to close together/hopping), walking on a blown up air mattress (good for winter exercise), and frequent walks (as opposed to a long walk — more frequent is better).

Also — obviously weight. She’s a slim 43 pounds at the moment, but she did get to 50 pounds in the winter and my vet noticed it. Slim is always, always better — and I’ve had people say she’s too thin (mostly because I don’t think most people are accustomed to seeing healthy dogs — harsh, but true… I think a lot of dogs are overweight).

If you have any questions, let me know. I really enjoy talking about this subject because I couldn’t find enough information when this happened to us. It’s our personal experience, but Quinn is now running full-speed and playing for hours and hours daily. A definite turnaround.

Good luck. 🙂

[pugmomsandy]

Chicken feet is a staple at ethnic grocery stores. They usually have pig feet too. Getting a human supplement might be cheaper per dose for joint supplements. You can also buy bulk green lipped mussel. I get Jarrow True CMO from swansonvitamins(dot)com and also use Actiflex 4000. I get the horse version because I don’t like the beef flavor in the dog version and give a very small amount. This is from folks in my local raw feeding group:

Under 25 pounds:
½ tsp. daily loading dose for 5 days
¼ tsp. daily maintenance dose
>
25-50 pounds
1 tsp. daily loading dose for 5 days
½ tsp. daily maintenance dose
>
50-75 pounds:
1 ½ tsp. daily loading dose for 5 days
¾ tsp. daily maintenance dose
>
100 pounds
2 tsp. daily loading dose for 5 days
1 tsp. daily maintenance dose

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi starbright –

Unfortunately if your dog has hip dysplasia she has hip dysplasia. Hip dysplasia is a chronic degenerative condition and is not reversible. The condition will progress as she ages, although its difficult to predict the extend to which it will affect her as many factors are at play (degree of pain tolerance, size and weight of the dog, etc.). For some dogs hip dysplasia is crippling and for others it may never cause more than a mild stiffness with age. Anti-inflammatory supplements (tart cherry, omega 3’s, boswellia, turmeric, etc.) will certainly help manage pain and supplements such as glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM/hylaluronic acid (or whole foods containing these items) may help slow the joint deterioration to a certain degree – but they certainly won’t stop it. It will also be critical to keep her lean and active (low impact activities). Being that she’s over a year old calcium levels won’t affect anything at this point.

[InkedMarie]

Starbright,
Thank you for adopting your girl. I hope she continues to blossom. My go-to food when a dog needs to lose weight is Wellness Core reduced fat, feeding her the amount of food for what she *should* weigh. A good joint supplement is needed; I use Joint Mobility plus from Swanson Vitamins. It’s human, fine for dogs. Also, salmon oil. I prefer just salmon oil, nothing else; I get mine from Vital Choice,

Good luck!

[theBCnut]

Chicken and turkey necks have a lot of cartilage in them and have helped my 11 year old JRT more than joint supplements did.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Amawil05 –

Going grain-free would be a smart idea – grains are inflammatory (something you really want to avoid when dealing with arthritic dogs). I’m assuming that by “Nature’s Instinct” you’re referring to Nature’s Variety Instinct. I would go with Nature’s Variety Instinct over Taste of the Wild. Nature’s Variety Instinct is manufactured by a reputable company, Taste of the Wild is manufactured by Diamond, a company known for producing low quality products and having frequent recalls. If you aren’t already giving joint support supplements, I would start a natural supplement regimen as well. Glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM and hyaluronic acid are all great for maintaining the joints; you can buy these supplements individually or in whole food form – some whole foods that contain some of these components and that are known for promoting joint health are green lipped mussel, sea cucumber, velvet antler, shark cartilage and eggshell membrane. There are also numerous natural supplements you can give that have anti-inflammatory properties – omega 3’s (up to 300 mg. per 10 lbs.), turmeric, boswellia, yucca, bromelain and tart cherry.

[HealthyMenuPetFood]

Hello! I’m so very sorry to hear about the health issues your babies are experiencing. I am an independent field rep for Life’s Abundance. We offer an outstanding food + supplement program that may be exactly what you are looking for. Our veterinarian formulated Healthy & Holistic dry or wet foods along with our Agility Supplement will get your babies feeling better & back to optimal health.

Good joint health is crucial to your companion animal’s wellbeing. The ability to walk, run and jump represents a large part of your dog’s unique ability to express emotion. Unfortunately, aching and stiff joints are just as much a part of aging for dogs as it is for humans. In fact, there are an estimated 68 million dogs experiencing hip and joint challenges – that’s nearly 60% of the canine population!

At present, there are several hip and joint formulas marketed for companion animals. Unfortunately, most of these products treat the joint as an isolated goal; it is for this reason that they do not work as well as they could. Our Agility Supplement is a holistic formula, which means that it takes into account the needs of the whole body, including all the parts that work with the joints.

This formula helps maintain healthy joint cartilage and connective tissue, and to aid in the production of healthy synovial fluid, which lubricates the joints. Learn more about our Agility Supplement as well as Life’s Abundance Premium Health Foods here: http://tinyurl.com/LAagility

Life’s Abundance Premium Health Foods & treat samples can be ordered here: http://www.tinyurl.com/LAsamples

[Hound Dog Mom]

Response #2:

Hi marty0203 –

Calcium and phosphorus levels really only affect the joint health of large and giant breed dogs during the growth phase. By the time a large or giant breed dog reaches two years of age it is either dysplastic or not dysplastic. For all dogs, calcium and phosphorus levels should be in balance with one another (between a 1:1 and 2:1 ratio of C:P) but this is really only a concern for those making homemade food, balanced commercial foods will have a proper ratio of calcium to phosphorus.

I strongly feel that a diet high in protein, moderate in fat and low in carbohydrates is best for most dogs. My three bloodhounds eat between 45% and 55% protein, 30% and 40% fat and <20% carbohydrates at each meal. If feeding a dry food I would search for one with no less than 30% protein.

I feel it’s important to feed a variety of foods. I no longer feed dry dog food, but when I did I switched to a new brand at the end of each bag and added a variety of canned and/or fresh food toppers daily. I would recommend finding at least 3 quality foods (preferable different brands with different protein sources) and switching every so often. If you can mix in canned or fresh food occasionally this is great too and canned and fresh foods are much more species-appropriate than dry food. Patty had a wonderful suggestion with recommending you check out online retailers. I live in a small area with a limited selection of quality pet products as well and, for this reason, do the majority of my shopping online. In addition to the sites she suggested, some others you may want to check out are wag.com, doggiefood.com and naturalk9supplies.com.

Some supplements that promote joint health are glucosmaine, chondroitin, MSM, esterified fatty acids (such as cetyl myristoleate) and hyaluronic acid. Some who foods supplements that promote joint health are sea cucumber, green lipped mussel, eggshell membrane, shark cartilage and velvet antler. Raw meaty bones (especially those high in cartilage such as trachea, gullet and chicken feet) and naturally rich in joint health promoting compounds such as chondroitin. Turmeric, tart cherry, boswellia, yucca, white willow, bromelian and high doses of omega 3 fatty acids (up to 300 mg. per 10 lbs.) all help to manage pain and inflammation. If your dogs don’t have any orthopedic issues, a basic glucosamine/chondroitin supplement would be fine for maintenance. If your dogs have any symptoms of pain and inflammation you may want to consider a combination of some of the joint health supplements listed in addition to one of the natural anti-inflammatories.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marty –

Calcium and phosphorus levels are really only a concern for joint health during the growth phase. Once large/giant breed dogs reach two years of age their joints are fully developed and at this point they’re either dysplastic or not dysplastic. Calcium and phosphorus levels obviously need to be in balance with each other (between a 1:1 and 2:1 ratio of C:P) but this is true for all dogs, not just large/giant breeds, and isn’t a concern as long as you’re feeding a balanced commercial food (where balancing C:P ratios come into play are with homemade diets). I personally feel that a diet high in protein, moderate in fat and low in carbohydrates is healthiest and most species-appropriate for healthy dogs. My three bloodhounds eat between 45% and 55% protein, 30% and 40% fat and <15% carbohydrates at each meal. If feeding a dry food, I would search for one with no less than 30% protein. I also would not limit yourself to only one brand – variety is important. I no longer feed dry dog food, but when I did I switched brands and protein sources at the end of every bag and I added different canned and/or fresh food toppers daily. I would recommend finding a minimum of three foods your dogs can eat (preferably different brands with different protein sources). Patty had a wonderful suggestion with online ordering if selection is limited where you live – some other sites that have a big selection and offer free shipping in addition to the two she posted are Wag.com, Doggiefood.com and NaturalK9Supplies.com. There are several supplements you can give your dogs that help to promote joint health and/or have anti-inflammatory properties. If your dogs don’t have any orthopedic conditions or arthritis a basic glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM supplement would be fine to start off with. Some other supplements good for joint maintenance are hyaluronic acid and esterfied fatty acids (like cetyl myristoleate). Some whole food supplements that are beneficial for the joints are eggshell membrane, velvet elk antler, sea cucumber, green lipped mussel and shark cartilage. Raw meaty bones (especially those high in cartilage such as trachea, chicken feet and gullets) are very rich in naturally occurring chondroitin. For dogs experiencing pain/arthritis some natural anti-inflammatories include high doses of omega 3 fatty acids (up to 300 mg. per 10 lbs.), turmeric, boswellia, tart cherry, yucca, bromelian and white willow. Generally human supplements are cheaper and higher quality than supplements marketed to dogs, adjust the dosage accordingly (a good rule of thumb is a 25 lb. dog would get about 1/4 of the recommended human dose, 1/2 the human dose for a 50 lb. dog, 3/4 the human dose for a 75 lb. dog and full human dose for dogs >100 lbs.). Also – as you may already know – the most important factor to maintaining healthy joints and staving off arthritis in large and giant breed dogs is maintaining a healthy body weight, it’s very important that large/giant breeds don’t become overweight as this adds a lot of stress to the joints.

[pugmomsandy]

You can feed raw trachea or chicken feet and perna (green lipped mussel) for natural joint support. I believe omega 3’s are given in a higher dose for joint support. You can also try products like Actiflex 4000 (I give the horse product, 1/4 teaspoon to my small dogs), Wysong’s (human products) Joint Complex and Arthegic. I do like products with eggshell membrane and cetyl-myristoleate (esterified fatty acid).

[pwndbypoms]

Long time lurker-first time poster….

I have 2 pomeranians. My 4 yr old just had to have knee surgery due to a luxating patella and subsequent injury. His other patella also luxates but we’re trying to save it from surgery. My vet said she would normaly recommend the Hill’s Science Diet J/D formula food ( I know… but this is the best vet I’ve found in my rural area) but she knew I used “more natural” foods and to go by the J/D’s numbers for omega 3’s and 6’s to chose something I felt comfortable with.
I quickly gave up on using the J/D info for anything but the more research I do the more confused I get trying to do the math to get the ratios right.

My pom normally eats Honest Kitchen Zeal rotated with dried Ziwipeak and various brands of 5 star canned food. But he does best with a main diet of the lower fat Zeal. Before I knew about his patellas I used to add a squirt of Grizzly brand Salmon oil–but then I tried to do the math for the ratio of 3’s to 6’s and it seemed that the Salmon oil was made for food that had a surplus of omega 6 in it (which if I’ve looked at the numbers right Zeal does not). Since his surgery (about a week ago) I switched to the Missing Link joint formula for small dogs but was just wondering if anyone had any other suggestions.
Am I over thinking this? Nutrition science is not my strong point 🙂

[InkedMarie]

I use the Swansons probiotic. Nice product, nice price. I also use their joint supplement, thanks to HDM

[pugmomsandy]

If you could feed her mostly canned food or canned/kibble combo at her age that would be great. They are less processed than extruded kibble and are high in moisture (of course) which is a good thing for all dogs any age. Be sure to get a product that is ‘complete and balanced’ versus ‘for intermittent or supplemental feeding only’ to be sure she is getting vitamins/minerals. A green/superfood supplement is beneficial as well. I’ve used Dr. Harvey’s supplements or similar. My 14 yr old is eating 1/2 cup of kibble with 1 cup of wet food/home made food with supplements (probiotics, green supplement, joint supp) or just wet food. Some sort of fiber of your choice (I use psyllium) will help bulk up her stools. She can have 1 teaspoon of psyllium. Or you can use canned pumpkin or even chia seed for fiber.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi shelties mom –

I do believe that dogs should be fed a diet rich in joint maintaining compounds (glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, etc.) for a lifetime in order to promote optimum joint health. A dog’s natural ancestral diet which is rich in bones, cartilage and sinew, would naturally contain high levels of these joint health promoting substances. For those feeding a raw diet that includes bones/cartilage, it generally isn’t necessary to supplement with joint supplements unless the dog has an orthopedic condition (i.e. hip dysplasia) or until the dog reaches its senior years. For dogs not eating a species-appropriate diet I feel it’s a good idea to supplement the diet with whole foods naturally rich in joint health compounds (think fresh or dried trachea chews, gullet, poultry feet, etc.) or give a low dose of a joint support supplement for maintenance (the dosage can be increased as the dog ages or begins to show symptoms of arthritis). Some whole food supplements beneficial for joint health would be sea cucumber, shark cartilage or green lipped mussel (generally come in capsules or powder). A standard glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM supplement will also suffice. If a dog is showing signs of pain or inflammation it can also be beneficial to combine a joint maintenance supplement with a natural anti-inflammatory such as boswellia, yucca, turmeric, bromelain, tart cherry, etc.

[shelties mom]

At what age should I start to give joint supplement? Any whole food or quality brands anyone can recommend?

[dogmom2]

I use iFlora digestive formula (prebiotics, probiotics and enzymes) for the boys, in addition to plain kefir. We also feed raw green tripe. ( they had some for their breakfast this morning).
I really think the combination of these has helped tremendously to the over all health of both of the dogs.
We also supplement with turmeric, glucosamine and omega3 fish oil for joint health.

My vet recently suggested a spirulina powder for additional antioxidants, but we have not yet added that in.

I swear…I spend more time nd energy thinking about my dogs food than I do my own!
However, after seeing how well Hank did off the grains, I stopped eating them as well and now I am not having the horrible asthma issues I have been treating for 10 years. It has been 4 months since I stopped taking my singular and I have not had one issue. Amazing. I really wonder if there is something to the quality of the grains with the advent of GMO.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Poor guy! If it were me, I’d probably do some fish oil, joint support, anti-inflammatories, antioxidants and enzymes.

Vet’s Best has a supplement called “Active Senior Aging Support” that doesn’t look too bad. It has glucosamine, msm, vitamin c, l-carnitine, l-taurine, CoQ10, lycopene, vitamin e, brewer’s yeast, fish oil, spirulina, papaya extract (papain), pineapple extract (bromelain), lecithin, chlorella, cranberry extract, acai extract, bee pollen, goji berry extract, grapeseed extract, pomegranate extract, bilberry extract, dunaliella salina sea algae extract, milk thistle extract and pygeum extract.

BTW – just got in a little of little black pug mixes at my shelter. Soo adorable. Not sure what they’re mixed with but they’re very “puggy.”

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi steelerfan500 –

The amount of glucosamine present in dog food is generally too low to provide any theraputic effect. I would recommend supplementing with a quality glucosamine/chondroitin/msm supplement to help maintain joint integrity. I’d also consider supplementing with a natural anti-inflammatory (or combination of a few) such as turmeric, bromelain boswellia, yucca, tart cherry or high doses of omega 3’s (up to 1,000 mg. fish oil per 10 lbs. of body weight to achieve anti-inflammatory benefits). Supplementing with an anti-inflammatory will help with pain and stiffness.

[steelerfan500]

My dog has started to experience some joint stiffness so his vet has us on a join supplement. I was wondering if I should try to switch his food to one with glucosamine and if so which one(s)? I read that the amount of glucosamine in dog food doesn’t amount to very much. Currently my dog is on Taste of the Wild and has been for 3 years now and is doing quite well, I should mention that he has gluten intolerance so no wheat, corn or soy.

Thanks.

Barbara

[pugmomsandy]

You can buy Yucca and put it on the kibble or in his drinking water. Some products for “fresher breath” contain yucca and also products for joint mobility contain yucca. OR you can give a probiotic (preferrably one that contains multiple strains of organisms) supplement with his meals (capsule, powder, yogurt, kefir). Probiotics help maintain a healthy gut which usually results in less gas. Digestive enzymes will help also to help breakdown food particles since undigested or not completely digested food can cause gas and puppies usually consume more volume of food so more to digest. OR use some dried parsley. I have small dogs so no input on food and they rarely have gas. I’ve been giving them prob/enzymes for a while (not everyday) and they eat a variety of foods and different forms of food. I like your list above. I was OCD like that when I first learned that dog food was not all it was cracked up to be. I’ve probably used about 20 different foods.

[Mom2Cavs]

I’m assuming you mean Springtime, Inc. And yes, I’ve heard of them and have used them off and on for many years. I really like them. I’ve used their Fresh Factors (great whole food vitamin which I like because Lucy hates most things mixed into her food) and I’ve used their Joint Health and their new Advanced Joint chews. They worked great for my deceased Shih-Poo, Desi, who had both rear luxating patellas. And the Advanced Joint worked when Lucy hurt herself once. I’ve also used their Omegas 3-6-9 and liked them, as well as their Bug-Off Garlic chews for fleas. Love the stuff and they always have b1g2 deals…and if you buy so much you can try free stuff.

[momtopoms]

I got a catalog from them in the mail. Has anyone tried any of them? The joint supplements look interesting. Thanks.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi BakersMom –

Unfortunately, if he has hip dysplasia there’s no reversing it. At 11 months old he’s already been through his critical growth phase and reducing calcium levels won’t help. Not feeding a puppy formula wouldn’t have caused this – but all of Taste of the Wild’s formulas are technically “puppy” formulas anyways (they’ve all met the AAFCO nutrient profiles for all life stages). A variety of factors are involved in the development of hip dysplasia – genetics (probably the biggest factor), over feeding, calcium intake during the critical growth phase (about the first 6 months), activity level (high impact activity during growth can cause hip dysplasia) and probably numerous other factors we aren’t yet aware of. If you do find out your pup has hip dysplasia it’s not the end of the world, there are several actions you can take to help him live a long and comfortable life. If the dysplasia is severe, your vet may recommend surgery – most orthopedic surgeries have a high success rate. Surgery is expensive, but if the dysplasia is severe it will be cheaper to get surgery rather than pay for expensive supplements and medications for the rest of his life. If the dysplasia is more mild, often the deterioration of the joint can be slowed by supplementing with GAGs and pain and inflammation can be controlled with natural supplements such as boswellia, turmeric, omega 3’s, white willow, yucca, tart cherry, etc. It will also be important to keep him active so the muscles around his hip stay strong, making the hip less likely to luxate. Low impact activities like walking and swimming are great for dogs with joint problems. Human supplements are generally cheaper than pet-specific supplements – I would recommend going for something with glucosamine, chondroitin and MSM and also supplementing with an anti-inflammatory such as turmeric or boswellia. Adjust the human dose depending on his weight – for example give a 25 lb. dog 1/4 the recommended human dose, a 50 lb. dog 1/2 the recommended human dose, etc. Give twice the recommended dose for the first two weeks and if you see improvement reduce the dose to half and discontinue the supplement for two consecutive days each week to help keep him from building a tolerance to the ingredients.

[Tuckers Mom]

Hi, need some advice please. I have a 11 month old 60 lb. mix. I’ve been told Lab/Shepherd or Lab/Rotty. He seems to be showing some signs of hip dysplasia, I have a vet appointment at the end of the month. I’ve been feeding him Taste of the Wild for several months now. When I went to the pet store they told me they were out of TOTW Puppy and said there was no problem using the adult since there wasn’t much difference. Did my not using Puppy make a difference? After reading Hound Dog’s list for large breed it looks like I’ll be making a food change anyway. I was thinking about starting him on a joint supplement. Aren’t ones for humans more reasonably priced than for dog. Thanks for any advice.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Shawna –

There aren’t any Mercola products that I don’t support – I think they all look great actually. Concerning the joint supplement I feel that while it’s a good supplement, a human product can be purchased with the same or similar ingredients that would be cheaper per dose . Also, the poster that was inquiring about it has a puppy, I feel that the Mercola joint product contains a lot of ingredients which would be FANTASTIC for an older dog or a dog that already has arthritis, but a bit of an overkill for a young dog with no joint issues. I think for a young healthy dog frequent RMB’s or a basic glucosamine/chondroitin supplement is plenty and a joint product like Mercola’s would be an unnecessary expense.

Concerning Mercola’s overall supplement line – no issues other than price. Coming from someone with large dogs, quality supplements can get VERY expensive. I’m always looking for ways to cut costs and always evaluate supplements on a cost per dose basis. Concerning all “pet” supplements in general (not just Mercola’s), I find that they’re overpriced and the equivalent product can be purchased in “human” form for much cheaper. I’d love to support Dr. Becker’s products but, for example, it would be $105 a month for me to give my three her probiotics and enzymes and it would cost me $10 a month to give my three Swanson’s supplement which has 15 strains of probiotics and 5 digestive enzymes (going off the recommended dosages on both products’ labels). I just don’t have that kind of money for supplements and I’m sure many others don’t either.

[Shawna]

What is it about Mercola’s product that you don’t support HDM? Just curious.

[Mary Lou]

Thank you, Hound Dog Mom ~ I’m going to order it now. I really appreciate all of your knowledge! Sure makes things so much easier! : )

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Mary Lou –

Sorry I accidentally mis-posted the name – that supplement is called “Joint Power Rx,” for some reason I always get mixed up and call it “Joint Care Rx” lol. Anyways, thought I’d clear that up in case you try to order it you’ll know the real name. I think it would definitely be a good supplement to try. The recommended human dose is 4 capsules per day and it recommends 1 or 2 capsules per day for dogs and cats. Because you’ve got a little guy, I’d say start out with 1 capsule per day. If you see a lot of improvement you may be able to decrease that to 1 capsule every other day. I ordered this supplement for my senior awhile back and I gave him 3 capsules per day (he’s 110 lbs.).

[Mary Lou]

Hi Hound Dog Mom ~

Our 6 1/2 year old Bichon was diagnosed with a luxating patella with a grade of 1/2. The vet sells Dasuquin, but he knew I probably would not want to use it with our guy’s allergies. I think I would like to try the Joint Care RX you mentioned. Do you know how much I would give him at 14 lbs? Is there another supplement that you think may work better with this issue?

Thanks so much!!

[InkedMarie]

I’ll get the Medizym for fido then, thanks!

[Hound Dog Mom]

When I’ve gotten Medizym I’ve used the Fido version – I believe the only difference is the flavor of the coating on the tablets. I have a jar of the Fido right here and I’m looking on the Medizym website and the two products are identical.

My bottle of Medizym Fido lists: 100 mg. pancreatin, 60 mg. papain, 45 mg. Bromelain, 24 mg. trypsin, 1 mg chymotrypsin and 50 mg. rutosid – per tablet.

On their website they list the following for their human Medizym: 300 mg. pancreatin, 180 mg. papain, 135 mg. bromelain, 72 mg. trypsin, 3 mg. chymotrypsin and 150 mg. rutosid – per 3 tablets. If you divide all these values listed by three (to get the value per tablet), it’s identical to the Medizym Fido tablets.

On the jar for Medizym Fido the recommended dosages are 1 tablet for small dogs, 2 tablets for medium dogs and 3 tablets for large dogs. The recommended human dosage is 3 tablets.

[InkedMarie]

HMD:

Did you know there is a Medizym for dogs? Here is the info:

Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 1 Tablet
Amount Per Serving
Pancreatin* 26,000 USP-units♦ protease (pancreas) Sus scrofa 100 mg
Papain* 970,000 million USP-units♦ Carica papaya 60 mg
Bromelain* 108 GDU Ananas comosus 45 mg
Trypsin 60,000 USP-units♦ (pancreas) Sus scrofa 24 mg
Chymotrypsin 7,500 USP-units♦ (pancreas) Sus scrofa 1 mg
Rutosid* Sophora japonica 50 mg
*Acetone free extraction process.
♦USP-unit is the measurement of enzyme activity according to the test methods of the United States Pharmacopeia (USP).

Feeding Instructions
Size of Dog Weight of Dog Amount to Feed
Small 13-20 lbs. 1 Tablet Daily
Medium 21-50 lbs. 2 Tablets Daily
Large 51-100 lbs. 3 Tablets Daily

~~~~~According to the chart, my dogs would get two tablets per day, which would double the mg of the ingredients.

Here is the info on the Medizym human:

Adults take 3 Medizym tablets, two times daily, at least 1 hour before meals.
Other Ingredients

Oligo polysaccharides, modified plant cellulose, stearic acid, methacrylic acid copolymer, silica, triethyl citrate, coating blend (maltodextrin, HPMC, triglycerides), natural flavor.

Gluten free, dairy free, no soy allergens.

Contains no artificial colors or preservatives.
Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 3 Tablets
Servings Per Container: 266
Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
Calories 0
Total Carbohydrate <1.0 g <1%**
Sugar <1.0 g <1%**
Protein <1.0 g <1%**
Pancreatin*** 78,000 USP-units♦ protease (pancreas) Sus scrofa 300 mg *
Papain*** 2.9 million USP-units♦ Carica papaya 180 mg *
Bromelain***324 GDU Ananus comosus 135 mg *
Trypsin 180,000 USP-units♦ (pancreas) Sus scrofa 72 mg *
Chymotrypsin 22,500 USP-units♦ (pancreas) Sus scrofa 3 mg *
Rutosid*** Sophora japonica 150 mg *
*Daily Value not established.
**Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet.
***Acetone free extraction process.
♦USP-unit is the measurement of enzyme activity according to the test methods of the United States Pharmacopeia (USP).

According to that, the amounts are for THREE of the human ones. Am I reading this correctly that I'd have to use one more of the human ones to get what two of the fido ones would give? If I am correct, the fido ones are cheaper.

[InkedMarie]

Thanks again! Before I order, I’m going to check the dosing/prices for the others you mentioned. They may be “more expensive” to buy outright but if the dosage is less. I have to keep that in mind.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marie –

Definitely not a stupid question!

If it was me, just to make things simple, I’d give her 2 capsules daily for the first 2 weeks then go to 1 capsule 5 days a week. If you find the 1 capsule doesn’t seem to be helping her enough, you could go back up to 2 and keep her on 2.

[InkedMarie]

I feel like maybe I’m asking stupid questions, sorry if I am. I’m looking at the Swansons Mobility essentials. The human dose is 3 capsules twice a day.
Going by what you say above…..I should give her 1 1/2 capsules to start? Do I do it twice a day or do dogs only need it once daily?
Swansons is having a 15% off sale, today only

[Hound Dog Mom]

I would start out giving her 1/2 the recommended human dose for a couple weeks, then cut her back to 1/4 the recommended human dose. If you use a systematic enzyme you would still want to give enzymes with her meal. The enzymes given with the food would help with digestion the systematic enzyme would be given between meals and help with inflammation. In Europe systematic enzymes are about as common as OTC pain relievers are here in the US.

[InkedMarie]

Thank you, HDM, you’re so smart! Is there a dosage chart? She’s 22pounds. I don’t know how bad her arthritis is, we think she was crated ALOT. Walking her yesterday or 15 min did her in. She is almost ten so it on’t get much better. If I use the systemic enzyme, do I stop using the Mercola digestive enzyme?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi hwballew –

If you go to the review section of DFA and read the reviews for Purina and Iams you’ll see that they are all very low quality foods. Dry food is definitely more convenient, but a balanced home prepared food is the healthiest. By type – from worst to best: kibble < canned < dehydrated < commercially prepared fresh food < balanced home cooked < commercial raw < balanced homemade raw (granted the foods are rated the same). If you want to stick with kibble for convenience reasons, I'd recommend picking out 2 or 3 (or more) 4 or 5 star dry foods and rotating – top the dry food with a quality canned food, raw food or healthy "people" food (eggs, tinned sardines, leftover lean cuts of meat, etc.). Canned foods, dehydrated foods and commercially prepared cooked and raw foods would be a step up from kibble and wouldn't require the time and knowledge that a home-prepared diet requires. These options are more costly than dry, but if cost isn't an issue they'd be a big improvement over dry food. If you do want to home prepare her meals, research first. It's not difficult to prepare a balance diet but it does take some research. There are many great books available with recipes formulated by veterinarians and nutritionists. Dogaware.com is probably the best online resource for homemade diets. The homemade food and raw food forms here have some useful information – my dogs' menus are posted on the suggested menu thread in the raw food forum.

For digestion problems I would supplement with a high quality probiotic supplement, enzymes and a little bit of plain canned pumpkin. Remember, because she's eaten lower quality foods for so long she may experience some digestive upset when you switch foods. These supplements will help a bit – make sure to do a gradual transition.

Is she on a joint supplement? I just posted some supplement recommendations to another poster on the "Mercola Joint Supplement vs. Others" thread under the "Dog Supplements" forum.

Good luck!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marie –

Liquid and powder supplements are harder to come across with human supplements. I’ve seen a few liquid human joint supplements, but nothing I’ve been overly impressed with and they cost about twice as much per dose as non-liquid supplements. I’d recommend powder-filled capsules when buying human supplements (that’s what I get for my dogs). They’re easy to pull apart and you can just sprinkle the powder into the food – you also don’t have to worry about measuring, just count the capsules.

For older dogs already experiencing arthritis, I think a supplement with both joint maintenance properties (glucosamine, chondroitin, etc.) and anti-inflammatory/pain relief properties (boswellia, yucca, white willow, etc.) will provide the most relief.

Some of my favorite joint supplements:

1) Joint Care Rx – Manufactured by Advance Physician’s Formulas. Available direct from the manufacturer’s website and on Amazon. $25.95 for 120 capsules. Contains: glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, cetyl myristoleate, boswellia, cat’s claw, devil’s claw, grape seed extract and sea cucumber.

2) Wysong Arthegic – Manufactured by Wysong and available on their human supplement website. $32.89 for 90 capsules. Contains: boswellia, sea cucumber, turmeric, ginger, devil’s claw, yucca, red pepper and cetyl myristoleate. For extra support, could be given in addition to Wysong’s Joint Complex which contains cartilage and MSM. Wysong offers quantity discounts.

3) Swanson’s Mobility Essentials – Sold by Swanson Vitamins. $10.99 for 180 capsules. Contains: Vitamin C, Zinc, Manganese, Glucosamine, MSM, Boswellia, Bromelain, Chondroitin, White Willow, Curcumin, Devil’s Claw, Quercetin, Sea Cucumber and Yucca.

Starting on any joint supplement, I’d begin by giving her twice as much as she should get for about 2 – 3 weeks. If you see improvement drop the dosage down to what she should be getting and give the supplement 5 days on/2 days off. Taking two days off per week will help to keep her from building up a tolerance to the effects of the supplement. You can also give extra omega 3’s daily to help with inflammation.

I’m not sure how bad her arthritis in, but you may also want to consider a systematic enzyme supplement such as Wobenzym or Medizym. These are just digestive enzymes but they’re in a specially coated capsule so they aren’t broken down in the stomach. You give them to the dog on an empty stomach and the enzymes help ease pain and inflammation and also boost the immune system.

[InkedMarie]

Patty, it’s hard to tell. I don;t think she ever got much exercise. I admit, when it’s snowy out, I don’t walk the dogs. I have joint issues and am terrified of falling. Today, it was nice out so we drove to a school that has sidewalks around it and walked the dogs. We walked for only 15 minutes or so and she barely made it back. I don’t know if it’s due to the hips or what.

[theBCnut]

I’ve seen the bulldog look on many dogs that are in pain in the rear end. They are shifting their weight forward to aleviate stress on those joints. Dogs with bad hips are only one place where I’ve seen that. It can also be knees, feet, or spine. Does she seem like she has less muscle in the back end compared to what she has in the shoulder area? Good luck in finding what works best for your olg gal!

[InkedMarie]

Resurrecting a sorta old thread. HoundDogMom, what can you advise me for Gemma? To recap, she ill be ten in June, is arthritic, holistic vet doesn’t feel any dysplasia. Her front legs look like bulldog legs, if you know what I mean. The vet sys she sees that with dogs that are kenneled a lot. Oh and she has no teeth. I’ve been using the liquid K9 liquid health but not cheap.
Any recommendations for a human liquid or powder I can try? She is not on nothing for pain but does seem lame after a walk. Thanks!

[BryanV21]

Acana is a good dog food. Hell, it’s MUCH… MUCH… MUCH better than Royal Canin. In fact, I could literally name a couple dozen other brands I’d feed my dog, or recommend to others, before Royal Canin. So right off the bat there’s a problem.

With that said, even if somebody fed Acana or almost any other food but RC, their dog may need a supplement(s) of some kind. Take larger dogs that are prone to hip and joint issues… you may want to add a chondroiton/glucosamine supplement to their food. Or say you have a dog prone to UTIs… add a cranberry supplement to their food.

As for your last eye roll inducing paragraph… just like not all different breeds have the same dietary needs, neither do two dogs that ARE the same breed.

I really shouldn’t need to explain this to somebody with “doc” in their name, but alas…

[DieselJunki]

Thank you for that Hound Dog Mom.

Cate I agree sometimes to much of a good thing can be harmful. I know I wanted to add more Omega 3’s at one point thinking it would help Moose’s dandruff and coat but was advised against it as I was already feeding a food high in Omega 3’s and balanced. Glad I checked before I decided to go ahead and do it and instead was suggested Coconut oil which I now use. I am always careful by nature and usually before feeding him any new supplement I always check in here and do research.

[DieselJunki]

I would supplement with a hip and joint supplement anyways. Especially since you said she was or is having issues.

Here are a few companies that I’ve looked into and I’ve heard of others using.
Welly Tails
Vet’s Best
K9 Joint Strong
Mercola

And also a link to a thread I had started that has good information from Hound Dog Mom on joint supplements.
/forums/topic/mercola-joint-supplement-vs-others/

As far as a food similar to Acana I’m not sure on that.

If it was me I would just find a good dog food high in protein, low in fat (since you said she was overweight) and add the hip and joint supplement instead of trying to find a food you think might have the appropriate levels to support healthy joints along with low fat and high protein. But I am certainly no expert so perhaps others will chime in.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Cate –

I agree, some supplements are harmful in excess. However, glucosamine, chondroitin and hyaluronic acid are very safe supplements. They can be consumed at many times the daily dose with no ill effects. The amounts in food are very low with most having only around 400 mg. glucosamine per kilogram of food – this equates to a mere 30 or so mg. per cup (just to give you an idea – a 50 lb. dog would have to eat over 30 cups of dog food a day just to get a maintenance dose of glucosamine). Dogs that are eating a natural diet rich in bones, cartilage and sinew would naturally be consuming these nutrients in very high levels (higher than anything in dry dog food). I’ve never heard of a dog “overdosing” on GAG’s.

[Anonymous]

Please be careful with supplements as some food and treats have glucosamine, chondroitin, hydraulic acid. Sometimes more is not better and overdoing could have a negative effect.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi DieselJunki –

Glycosaminoglycans (GAGs) are important constituents of cartilage and help to maintain joint function. GAG’s and GAG precursors would include glucosamine, chondroitin and hyaluronic acid. MSM, which is an organic form of the essential mineral sulfur, can be beneficial for joints as well due to the fact that connective tissues require sulfur for maintenance. Cetyl Myristoleate is a supplement that’s recently gained popularity as a joint supplement and has been shown to lubricate joints and maintain function. Whole food supplements that are rich in GAGs are sea cucumber, green lipped mussel, shark cartilage and eggshell membrane. Raw meaty bones are rich in GAGs as well – with trachea, poultry feet and gullet probably being the richest sources. I feel that large/giant breed dogs that are not fed a diet including raw meaty bones on a daily basis should be started on a joint maintenance supplement at a year old (until the dog is a senior or starts to exhibit joint issues the supplement can be given at half the recommended dose). When it comes to joint supplements if you buy supplements made for humans they will be MUCH cheaper per dose. The ingredients used in human supplements are the same as those used in dog supplements so there’s no reason human supplements can’t be used (they’re probably higher quality as well). For a young dog with no joint issues there’s no reason to supplement with every beneficial ingredient under the sun – a capsule of green lipped mussel, shark cartilage, sea cucumber or eggshell membrane or a basic glucosamine/chondroitin supplement will give enough maintenance support to a young dog free of joint issues. For older dogs or dogs that are exhibiting symptoms of arthritis natural anti-inflammatories such as white willow, yucca, boswellia, turmeric/curcumin, tart cherry and supplemental omega 3’s can be beneficial to give in addition to a joint maintenance supplement.