[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi jodysworld33 –

I’d checkout The Honest Kitchen’s Zeal formula – it’s low fat and high protein. Dehydrated foods are also much less calorie-dense than kibble because of all the water you add. Any low fat canned food would be a good option as well.

[Mom2Cavs]

Yes, it’s Jan lol. I didn’t use it for long, but the dogs did fine on it and liked it. The nuggets were smaller than NV or Primal. It does have some rice bran in it, or did when I used it, and that seems strange for a raw food imho. It came in a bigger bag and if I remember was cheaper in the long run than the others. My vet, who carries it, actually feeds his Goldens NV Prairie and Steve’s. I didn’t use it often because my vet is 45-50 mins. from home and I only bought it if I was going there. I can get Primal and NV closer to home. With all that said, I don’t use regular raw anymore. I like the freeze dried because my daughter and husband (rarely) can help out with feeding because they are more comfortable using the FD. I add water to it and rehydrate it. I tried using The Honest Kitchen and Grandma Lucy’s but the dogs prefer the Primal and Stella & Chewy’s much more. I’m gonna pick up some Vital Essentials today to add to the mix, though it seems to be the most expensive of all.

[soho]

Hi Everyone,

I would like to discuss diet and diabetes. Diabetes is a huge subject to tackle whether it is in regard to people or to pets. I wanted to start the conversation with the question;

“What should I feed my Diabetic dog?”

Without going into the science of Diabetes which would be a very long and complex conversation let’s just discuss what you can do in regards to your dog’s diet to help them live a longer and healthier life.

I have been dealing with my own diabetes for 28 years now and I worked for a Doctor of Osteopathy as a diabetes educator in her Manhattan, NY office. For the last eight years I have counseled many dog guardians on the subject of canine diabetes. I have seen literally thousands of dogs with every kind of health issue through my work with the non profit FreePlay which educates the public on the benefits of off leash recreation areas and with The Pet Wash a local grooming and retail establishment.

The good news is you can really make a difference in your diabetic dog’s well being through their diet. The bad news is diabetes is an insidious disease that can rob your dog of their sight and their life if left unmanaged.

The Canine Ancestral diet which is approximately 55% protein 25 to 30% fat and 15% carbohydrate or on a calorie weighted basis 50% of calories are from protein, 44% from fat, and only 6% from carbohydrate is a good starting point to consider in trying to help the diabetic dog through diet.

The ancestral diet is so low in carbohydrates that it is tailor made for a diabetic dog. You can prepare this type of diet at home using human grade meats and vegetables which we will discuss in another post or you can try to feed your dog a similar diet using commercial foods. I would recommend starting with a balanced raw diet that does not contain bones and lightly cooking it. I would cook it lightly because a lot of diabetic dogs are not in the best health and their ability to deal with the bacteria and microbes that are in the raw food is probably compromised.

Second choice would be a dehydrated food such as The Honest Kitchen. THK is a quality food that uses only human grade ingredients in all of their formulas. The problem with THK is it is lower in protein that what I would suggest. This can be remedied by adding about 20% lightly cooked meat to each of the recipes. I would stick with similar proteins like fowl for the turkey or chicken formulas, fish for the fish formulas and red meat for the beef formulas.

Next would be a canned food that has no grains or other starches like potatoes. I would look for a canned food that was mostly meats with a little vegetables.

Lastly would be kibble. Kibbles require starch to bind the ingredients. They also are the most processed of all the commercial diets available for dogs. They also are dry and nutrient dense. I would suggest that a diabetic dog be fed a high moisture diet like a fresh food or a dehydrated after it is rehydrated or a canned food. Moisture helps ease the burden of the kidneys which are one of the organs that are affected by diabetes.

If you must feed a kibble for whatever reason then I would look to a kibble like EVO which is only 12 percent carbohydrates. The lowest carb highest protein kibble would be the only kibble I would consider feeding a dog with diabetes. Unfortunately once a dog has diabetes the controlling of this disease would be of paramount importance to me and I would no longer be as concerned with considering all of the qualities of an individual dog food and I would mostly focus on feeding a high protein, low carbohydrate and high moisture diet

Questions anyone?

• This topic was modified 12 years, 11 months ago by soho.

[InkedMarie]

I thought I just posted this but it didn’t show….my dogs use http://www.thewholisticpet.com/products/canine-product-line/digestive-support/wholistic-digest-all-plustm.html. I’m almost out of it and would like to try the Mercola probiotic

http://probiotics.mercola.com/probiotics-for-pets.html. Do the dogs also need a digestive enzyme?
Ginger eats The Honest Kitchen in the mornings, Darwins every 3 days. Dr. Tim’s grain inclusive in the afternoon. Boone eats Darwins every morning and Brothers Allergy in the afternoon.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Weimlove –

Whether you switch cold turkey or gradual is kind of up to you. I have read some that recommend gradual and I’ve heard others that recommend just doing it cold turkey (literally, lol). I personally switched my dogs cold turkey. They were eating The Honest Kitchen and canned food at the time and I just did the switch. They didn’t have any issues. My dogs all have pretty strong stomachs though. I’ve also read that for those switching cold turkey it can be easier on the dog’s stomach if you fast the dog for about 12 hours prior (I didn’t do this, but it may help for more sensitive dogs). As for which meat to start with, it’s generally recommended to feed only one meat for the first week to allow your dog’s stomach time to adjust – chicken is a good choice as it’s one most dogs have been exposed to. I’d stay away from more exotic meats that your dog hasn’t eaten until he’s gotten accustomed to the raw.

[weimlove]

HDM- yes, that was his first time ever eating anything raw, so it was probably the fat content. The bone I gave him was also a pretty large lamb bone. I will try to attach a picture of it. I will definitely try the smaller meaty bones you suggested. I was very worried last night, thanks for the peace of mind. Also, when I do switch him to raw all the way, should I do a gradual switch or just go cold turkey on the kibble? And what do you think would be the best meat and meat type to start him out on? Keep in mind that I will be mixing it with honest kitchen dehydrated pre mix. Thanks so much!!

[weimlove]

Shawna,
oops, I meant dehydrated. Thank you for all of you help. I have researched other dehydrated brands, and I also like the honest kitchen because of its lack of potatoe. Thanks for clarrifying that I dont need to add bone, I was concerned about the ratios of bone, organ, etc. I also think the commercial dog food are great, but can get a little pricey, For that reason I think I will go to a local butcher that other raw feeders use and get them to grind up the meat for me.

HDM,
Thank you for all of your help as well! You seem to be so educated with raw feeding, and I hope one day it comes as easy to me as it does to you! Yesterday, I fed Shadow (my weim) a raw lamb bone from Primal, and I added a bit of the Grandma Lucys to his Acana kibble to see how he likes it. He LOVED the raw lamb bone, and ate almost half of it. He also seemed to love the Grandma Lucys pre-mix, but at 1 AM he woke up and threw up. It wasnt alot. Most of it looked like the Grandma Lucys, but he did throw up a small peice of sharp bone. Is this common for a dogs first time eating a raw bone? Or was it the type of bone I bought?

[Shawna]

Weimlove ~~ for clarification, The Honest Kitchen foods are dehydrated versus freeze dried. I personally like freeze drying better but I like the lack of potato in The Honest Kitchen and that they are guaranteed to use human grade foods. That being said, I think it is as important to rotate the starch etc as it is the proteins. I rotate through the premixes from See Spot Live Longer, Honest Kitchen, Grandma Lucy’s and Sojo. I will use others as they become locally available.

When using a premix, unless it specifies, you don’t need to add liver and shouldn’t add bone. Everything is in the premix to balance the meat you add. If you want to add liver I’d just do so in the form of treats. I dehydrate organic liver for my pups and they LOVE it. In a home made diet you only add 5% of the diet as liver (and 5% as other organs — heart, kidneys etc) so liver treats should be ample to an already balanced diet.

I also use complete and balanced commercial raw products in my rotation. I like Darwins and Bravo Balance. Bravo also has some meat only options that are great to add to the premixes (salmon, buffalo and venison are the options available).

[weimlove]

Hi, I have been researching the raw diet and I have decided to switch my two year old Weim over to raw. I plan on feeding him a freeze dried pre mix from either the honest kitchen or grandma Lucy’s, and then adding my own meat. I know you gave to rotate proteins, but what amount of organ and bone do you need to include? I am brand new to this so any tips would be much appreciated!

[pugmomsandy]

We’ve been using Weruva, Merrick Classic, Merrick GF, sometimes Merrick WEF, Addiction and Wellness Stews and some Wellness Core. Oh and still use Tripett. Mine will also eat kibble topped with Honest Kitchen.

[sophia]

She’s has never taken any interest in actual bones, I think they’re to hard for her.

I’ve heard that the Blue Buffalo brand, although a good brand, can just be too rich for some dogs, and I just have a feeling my dog would be one of them. The Nutrisca actually looks very good except I think a fat content of 16% may be too high (?). I have looked for Grandma Lucys before but have not been able to find it around here! The Honest Kitchen looks like something she will do very well on though, I plan to try and find a smaller bag to test it out this weekend, thanks everyone!!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Sophia –

Melissa had some good suggestions. In addition to her’s, I’d also recommend checking into The Honest Kitchen’s Zeal formula. It’s a pretty allergy-friendly food (grain-free, white potato free, uses fish which is a novel protein), it’s under 10% fat and rated 5 stars.

[Anonymous]

Diet can absolutely cause eye staining, but its important to remember that the breed of the dog can have just as great of an effect as well. Dogs with bulging eyes, like many chihuahuas for example, routinely have eye staining regardless of diet.

Eye stains are usually a sign of some sort of food intolerance or allergy. I have a dog in particular who gets massive staining when eating a pea-heavy food, which many grain free kibbles qualify as. This dog gets no eye staining when eating a food who’s carbs are majority grain or majority potato based.

But, I also have two chihuahuas who had massive staining while on puppy chow in their foster home and now have some, but not much, eye staining with quality foods (honest kitchen, acana, etc). I credit whats left of their eye staining to their breed and their bulging eyes.

So anyways, if your dog did not have much staining before but has massive staining now then consider switching foods. Also, you can do even better by stocking five or so foods at your home and switching every meal. That way your dog’s body will not develop new allergies and will not be lacking in any nutrients or minerals that any one food may be lacking in.

[Shawna]

Hi Mike ~~ I know of (actually recommended to them) several people who have successfully won the battle with candida feeding their dogs foods, like The Honest Kitchen, with sweet potato in it.

If you look at Nutritiondata.com — sweet potato has a lower glycemic load at 17 then long grain white rice at 24. The glycemic load of oats is 57 and barley is 19. Also note that the “inflammation factor” of both rice and oats is “strongly inflammatory”, barley is “moderately inflammatory” while the sweet potato is “strongly anti-inflammatory”. Plus, sweet potato doesn’t bind with minerals and prevent their absorption like grians. None of the other pitfalls of grains either. I’ll take sweet potato over grains and white potato any day.. However, I agree with HDM that any binder that is used in excess is not species appropriate and can be detrimental.

I don’t know what type of tapioca is used in the dog foods that use it but…. The following research was done on mice so may not be relevant to dogs and humans but guessing it is. “High-hydroxypropylated tapioca starch improves insulin resistance in genetically diabetic KKAy mice.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19397723

Sweet potato http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2667/2
Rice http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cereal-grains-and-pasta/5712/2
Oats http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cereal-grains-and-pasta/5708/2
Barley http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cereal-grains-and-pasta/5680/2

[InkedMarie]

Avoderm-their revolving menu only
Back to Basics-all grainfree’s
Brothers Complete-all
California Natural grain free-salmon & peas, kangaroo & lentils, chicken
Canidae Grain Free Pure Land
Canine Caviar-all grainfree’s
DNA-all
Earthborn-Meadow Feast and Great Plains
Evangers grainfree-both
Evo herring & salmon
Evo weight management
Freehand-Energize only
Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance-all
Grandma Mae’s Country Natural-grainfree only
Great Life Pioneer Naturals grain free-all
Great Life-all
Hi-Tek Naturals GF Chicken and Sweet Potato
Horizon Amicus-all
Horizon Legacy-all
Horizon Pulsar-both
I and Love and You Nude Food
Innova Prime-all
LiveFree (by Dogswell)
Nature’s Select grain free-all
Nature’s Variety Instinct-all including raw boost
NRG-Maxim
Nutripe-all
Nutrisca-all grainfree’s
NutriSource grainfree-all except the large breed chicken & large breed lamb
Pet Botanics-Healthy Omega only
Precise grain free-both
Red Moon-high protein chicken, moderate protein chicken only
Sojos grainfree-all
Spring Meadows-all
The Honest Kitchen-Zeal only
Victor grainfree-all
Wellness Core Wild Game
Wysong Epigen-fish formula
Zignature-all
Ziwi Peak-all of the air dried
Orijen
Halo Spot’s Choice (canned)

• This topic was modified 11 years, 11 months ago by Mike Sagman. Reason: Added 4 new foods submitted by PugMomSandy
• This topic was modified 11 years, 11 months ago by Mike Sagman. Reason: Added 2 more candidates submitted by PugMomSandy

[shibasenji]

My Shiba has certain protein sensitivities (beef is a big no no, and we generally stay away from processed chicken). Frankly, there are a lot of commercial dog treats out there that don’t offer much bang for the buck, in my opinion. We’ve taken to a more rigorous dehydration schedule in recent months, so we’ve gotten a lot of mileage out of chicken hearts and gizzards for training treats. And free pouches of kibble sample from the local holistic pet store.

A big bag of Zuke’s training treats (salmon and peanut butter are our favorites) last us a long time, and are clean. There are a couple fish skin treats that we like. Salmon Ears are economical, and each box lasts us a long time. Recently fell in love with The Honest Kitchen’s Beams, their new Icelandic catfish skin chew treat.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Blue Corgi –

No, the ingredients aren’t just made up. Knowing how to balance a homemade diet is VERY important. Feeding an unbalanced diet can result in some serious health issues if the unbalanced diet is fed long term. It’s wonderful that you’re interested in feeding your dogs a homemade diet – I STRONGLY feel that when done correctly a homemade diet is the healthiest thing for a dog.

Ingredients you use will differ slightly based on whether you’re planning on feeding raw or cooked. But with either diet the most important thing is getting the correct calcium to phosphorus ratio. The ratio of calcium to phosphorus needs to be between 1:1 and 2:1. To achieve this when feeding a raw diet with bone you will want to feed 80% boneless muscle meat, 10% organ meat and 10% bone and for cooked diets or raw diets without bone you want to feed 90% boneless muscle meat, 10% organ meat and add 800-1,000 mg. calcium per pound of meat and organ fed. Green tripe is a rare exception to this rule as green tripe naturally has a 1:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio. You should feed an even mixture of red meat and poultry – don’t feed predominately one or the other as they have different types of fats. I give my dogs red meat in the a.m. and poultry in the p.m. As far as being “exact every time” – you don’t have to be exact every time but you do need to be exact over time. This means, if you decide you want to feed a meal that’s 20% organ meat at breakfast you can just feed a meal without organ meat at dinner – this would still balance out to your dog getting 10% organ meat in its diet. Balance over time.

You should feed around 80% meat – the other 20% can be vegetables, fruits, extras and supplements. All veggies should be cooked and pureed as dogs don’t produce the enzyme cellulase to breakdown the cellulose in raw veggies – cooking and pureeing in a sense “pre-digests” the veggies so the dog can derive some nutrients from them. Extras are optional and would include things like eggs, cottage cheese, yogurt, kefir, etc.

For supplements I would recommend adding a form of animal-based omega 3’s (fish body oil or an oily fish such as sardines), vitamin e and super-foods (kelp, alfalfa, spirulina, etc.). I also give my dogs Carlson cod liver oil every other day for some extra vitamin d (cod liver oil should be limited though as it’s very high in vitamin a, I feed Carlson because it has the lowest vitamin a levels). You can add a multi-vitamin if you wish but if you’re feeding a wide variety of foods and adding the supplements I mentioned I don’t think it would be necessary. If you’re feeding a cooked diet you may want to consider supplementing with enzymes. If you don’t feed kefir, yogurt and/or green tripe on a regular basis you may also want to consider a probiotic supplement a few days of the week.

Lastly – keep this in mind because it’s critical when feeding a homemade diet – variety! Feed many different protein sources, many different types of organs, different fruits, veggies and extras and rotate different supplements into the mix every once in awhile. This will help to ensure that over time your dogs get all the nutrients they need.

Another option to make things easier – if you don’t feel comfortable making food from scratch yet – would be to use a premix. With a premix you generally just add meat and water – the mix contains all the fruits, veggies and supplements your dog needs. Some good premixes are The Honest Kitchen’s Preference, Sojo’s, Urban Wolf, Birkdale Petmix and Dr. Harvey’s.

I would recommend checking out dogaware.com – there’s a lot of good information on homemade diets there. I would also recommend reading Steve Brown’s book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet.” If you check out the “menu” topic on the raw thread I’ve posted my dogs’ menu so you can get an idea of what a balanced diet should look like.

I hope that helps. Feel free to post any questions! Quite a few of us here feed homemade food and can help you out. 🙂

[InkedMarie]

Since I have a dog with allergy type issues, I’m pretty picky on treats. I use mostly Buddy Biscuits, SoJos duck and cherry and The Honest Kitchen ones.
What does everyone else use?

[InkedMarie]

I agree with Hound Dog Mom although I have fed various The Honest Kitchen products and not all of them are five star.