[laney.delaney]

Raw food might be much more “real” tasting and satisfying to them, plus, nothing’s better! I don’t blame them being picky about dry food, even the best ingredients turned into a kibble can’t be nearly as awesome as a hunk of meat.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Response #2:

Hi marty0203 –

Calcium and phosphorus levels really only affect the joint health of large and giant breed dogs during the growth phase. By the time a large or giant breed dog reaches two years of age it is either dysplastic or not dysplastic. For all dogs, calcium and phosphorus levels should be in balance with one another (between a 1:1 and 2:1 ratio of C:P) but this is really only a concern for those making homemade food, balanced commercial foods will have a proper ratio of calcium to phosphorus.

I strongly feel that a diet high in protein, moderate in fat and low in carbohydrates is best for most dogs. My three bloodhounds eat between 45% and 55% protein, 30% and 40% fat and <20% carbohydrates at each meal. If feeding a dry food I would search for one with no less than 30% protein.

I feel it’s important to feed a variety of foods. I no longer feed dry dog food, but when I did I switched to a new brand at the end of each bag and added a variety of canned and/or fresh food toppers daily. I would recommend finding at least 3 quality foods (preferable different brands with different protein sources) and switching every so often. If you can mix in canned or fresh food occasionally this is great too and canned and fresh foods are much more species-appropriate than dry food. Patty had a wonderful suggestion with recommending you check out online retailers. I live in a small area with a limited selection of quality pet products as well and, for this reason, do the majority of my shopping online. In addition to the sites she suggested, some others you may want to check out are wag.com, doggiefood.com and naturalk9supplies.com.

Some supplements that promote joint health are glucosmaine, chondroitin, MSM, esterified fatty acids (such as cetyl myristoleate) and hyaluronic acid. Some who foods supplements that promote joint health are sea cucumber, green lipped mussel, eggshell membrane, shark cartilage and velvet antler. Raw meaty bones (especially those high in cartilage such as trachea, gullet and chicken feet) and naturally rich in joint health promoting compounds such as chondroitin. Turmeric, tart cherry, boswellia, yucca, white willow, bromelian and high doses of omega 3 fatty acids (up to 300 mg. per 10 lbs.) all help to manage pain and inflammation. If your dogs don’t have any orthopedic issues, a basic glucosamine/chondroitin supplement would be fine for maintenance. If your dogs have any symptoms of pain and inflammation you may want to consider a combination of some of the joint health supplements listed in addition to one of the natural anti-inflammatories.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marty –

Calcium and phosphorus levels are really only a concern for joint health during the growth phase. Once large/giant breed dogs reach two years of age their joints are fully developed and at this point they’re either dysplastic or not dysplastic. Calcium and phosphorus levels obviously need to be in balance with each other (between a 1:1 and 2:1 ratio of C:P) but this is true for all dogs, not just large/giant breeds, and isn’t a concern as long as you’re feeding a balanced commercial food (where balancing C:P ratios come into play are with homemade diets). I personally feel that a diet high in protein, moderate in fat and low in carbohydrates is healthiest and most species-appropriate for healthy dogs. My three bloodhounds eat between 45% and 55% protein, 30% and 40% fat and <15% carbohydrates at each meal. If feeding a dry food, I would search for one with no less than 30% protein. I also would not limit yourself to only one brand – variety is important. I no longer feed dry dog food, but when I did I switched brands and protein sources at the end of every bag and I added different canned and/or fresh food toppers daily. I would recommend finding a minimum of three foods your dogs can eat (preferably different brands with different protein sources). Patty had a wonderful suggestion with online ordering if selection is limited where you live – some other sites that have a big selection and offer free shipping in addition to the two she posted are Wag.com, Doggiefood.com and NaturalK9Supplies.com. There are several supplements you can give your dogs that help to promote joint health and/or have anti-inflammatory properties. If your dogs don’t have any orthopedic conditions or arthritis a basic glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM supplement would be fine to start off with. Some other supplements good for joint maintenance are hyaluronic acid and esterfied fatty acids (like cetyl myristoleate). Some whole food supplements that are beneficial for the joints are eggshell membrane, velvet elk antler, sea cucumber, green lipped mussel and shark cartilage. Raw meaty bones (especially those high in cartilage such as trachea, chicken feet and gullets) are very rich in naturally occurring chondroitin. For dogs experiencing pain/arthritis some natural anti-inflammatories include high doses of omega 3 fatty acids (up to 300 mg. per 10 lbs.), turmeric, boswellia, tart cherry, yucca, bromelian and white willow. Generally human supplements are cheaper and higher quality than supplements marketed to dogs, adjust the dosage accordingly (a good rule of thumb is a 25 lb. dog would get about 1/4 of the recommended human dose, 1/2 the human dose for a 50 lb. dog, 3/4 the human dose for a 75 lb. dog and full human dose for dogs >100 lbs.). Also – as you may already know – the most important factor to maintaining healthy joints and staving off arthritis in large and giant breed dogs is maintaining a healthy body weight, it’s very important that large/giant breeds don’t become overweight as this adds a lot of stress to the joints.

[marty0203]

I have recently adopted a 2-3 year old English mastiff and I currently have a 5 year old great dane/lab mix. Both dogs are over 100 lbs and I am currently looking for the best dry dog food to feed both of them. My head is spinning after trying to figure out how much calcium, phosphorus and other minerals are ideal for joint health, in addition to the correct amount of protein and fat. If anyone could give me a few suggestions, I would greatly appreciate your help. Also, if it helps, I live in Wyoming and sometimes the selection can be limited, which is why I need a few options. 🙂 Thanks!

[theBCnut]

I think you are right, she has more than one thing going on. Even on the correct dose, I still am prone to tummy trouble, dry skin, etc. but to a much lesser degree than before, so I assume the same holds true for dogs. But I think that is just a facet of what is going on with her.

I don’t always like suggesting tough love, but I think to get a handle on what is causing her issues, you need to pick a food and stick with it. I know you said she vomits if she doesn’t eat, but you also said she is overweight. So this is what I suggest; get either the LID turkey or lamb or some other LID food that doesn’t have chicken or beef and feed that, with no toppers. Also find, make, whatever treats out of the same protein source. A couple times a day, do a little training so you can give her some of her treats, enough for her to have something on her stomach, not enough to be a replacement meal. Offer her her kibble twice a day for 15 minutes then pick it up and put it away. When she has been on one food for a few weeks re evaluate how her skin is doing and decide if you need to try a different protein source to make things better. If you could get probiotic and digestive enzymes into her it would be for the best. The goal is to get her skin calmed down enough that you can start switching to other protein sources and actually tell when something bothers her.

[giabuford]

I have a ten year old boxer. Until very recently she had been eating Wellness can food along with vet prescribed dry food. She refused to eat. Nothing physically wrong with her, bloodwork etc fine. She will only eat low quality food now, ugh. Any suggestions

[shelties mom]

Nutrition deficiencies and sensitive stomach develop are usually due to eating the same dry food for months and years. Raw, high moisture food is best. There are commercial raw prepared food you can purchase if you don’t want to make your own at home.

I highly recommend the DVD ‘Functional, Fresh, Fast food for our furry friends’ by Dr. Karen Becker

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2010/07/21/13-pet-foods-ranked-from-great-to-disastrous.aspx

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2010/09/14/false-beliefs-in-pet-care-for-aging-pets.aspx

[Crepuscular]

Hi GSDsForever – thanks for the reply. Based on your recommendation and additional research online I’m leaning toward the Fromm Family Classics Adult Formula Dry Dog Food ($37.99 with free shipping from Chewy.com)!

Thanks!!

[pugmomsandy]

Angels6121,

Look up these foods or brands and look through their different varieties:

Canine Caviar GF
EVO cans
Fresh is Best dehydrated
Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance freeze dried
Great Life GF
Honest Kitchen Zeal dehydrated
Hound and Gatos canned
Merrick 96% canned
Natural Balance LID dry
Nature’s Logic canned and dry
Only Natural Pet Easy Raw and MaxxMeat dehydrated
Pioneer Naturals GF
Sojo’s Complete dehydrated
Smack dehydrated
Tuscan Natural Simply Pure dry
Weruva Marbella Paella
Wellness Simple canned
Wellness cans – duck, turkey, venison, whitefish

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi wantthebest4myk9 –

I would be very interested in seeing these (non-existant) sources that prove protein causes kidney failure. Could you cite them please? I’m very familiar with the Merck Veterinary Manual, in fact I have a copy in front of me, and I can assure you it says nothing of the sort. The only instances in which high levels of protein can be harmful is if a dog has certain chronic medical conditions – i.e. liver shunts, late stage kidney failure, etc. – high levels of protein do not cause these conditions (there’s a difference).

Here are my sources. If you’d like to see more let me know.

Excerpt from “Small Animal Clinical Nutrition 4th Ed.”:

“Feeding protein above requirements to healthy dogs and cats does not result in toxicity because the excess amino acids from the protein are catabolized and waste nitrogen is excreted.” [this is a passive process that does not stress the kidneys]

This is an excerpt from “Pet Food Safety: Dietary Protein” by D.P. LaFlamme, DVM, PhD, Dipl ACVN:

“The ability of dietary protein to to induce renal pathology was studied in both dogs with chronic kidney failure and older dogs without chronic kidney failure. One study, undertaken to contrast the potential renoprotective benefits of protein restriction or phosphorus restriction, compared four carefully controlled diets. The results showed that protein had no adverse affects, even in dogs with kidney failure, although phosphorus restriction did protect against worsening [pre-existing] kidney failure. Two other studies evaluated older (age 6 to 8 years at the start of study) uninephrectomized dogs that were fed either dry diets containing 18% or 34% protein or canned diets containing 22% or 36% protein. No adverse effects from dietary protein were observed. On the contrary, mortality was slightly higher dogs fed the lower protein diet.”

The summary of LaFlamme’s article states:

“Based on a comprehensive review, there remains no evidence that dietary protein causes kidney damage, or any other adverse effects, in healthy dogs.”

This is an excerpt from “Focusing on Protein in the Diet” by TJ Dunn Jr. DVM:

“Ahhhhhh … I know what you’re thinking! Too much protein! Kidney damage! Well, guess what? The very early research that pointed a finger at protein as being a cause of kidney failure in dogs wasn’t even done on dogs! It was done on rats fed unnatural diets for a rodent — diets high in protein. (Were we tinkering with Nature during these “tests”?) Rats have difficulty excreting excess protein in their diets because they are essentially plant eaters, not meat eaters.

Dogs are quite able to tolerate diets with protein levels higher than 30 percent on a dry weight basis. Dogs are meat eaters; that’s how Nature made them! Rats are not. So some of the early research on rats was assumed to be true for dogs … and the myth of “too much protein in a dog’s diet causes kidney damage” was started. And just like any seemingly valid rumor or assertion, it derived a life of its own and is only recently being accepted as untrue.”

This is an excerpt from “Kirk’s Veterinary Therapy XIII, Small Animal Practice” by written by Finco, Brown, Barsanti and Bartges:

“…restriction of protein intake does not alter the development of renal lesions nor does it preserve renal function. Considering these (research) findings, the authors do not recommend reduction of dietary protein in dogs with renal disease or reduced renal function in order to achieve renoprotective effects.”

Dr. Kenneth C. Bovée describes using dietary protein as a nutritional management approach in dogs suffering from kidney disease as “a medical myth”. The common belief that moderate and high protein diets cause kidney disease is also unsubstantiated. According to Bovée:

“Results of the 10 experimental studies on dogs have failed to provide evidence of the benefit of reduced dietary protein to influence the course of renal failure.”

• This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.
• This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[sisu]

I have a 14 year old who has acid reflux since she was 3. If the situation persists I encourage you to make an appointment with a gastroenterologist who can scope the dog to determine if the cause is due to a weakened sphincter muscle between the stomach and esophagus. There is a surgical procedure to correct the condition. I wish vets would have taken me seriously when I mentioned the acid reflux as it is now too late for her to have the surgery.

As a raw feeder the journey we have taken has been against my belief in a high meat protein diet. Although fed 3-4 times per day there came a point were she could not tolerate the amount of meat needed to maintain weight without the severe reflux that was damaging her throat and mouth. Natures Variety Instinct Limited Ingredient Turkey did not work. After several brands and combinations I learned chicken, turkey or fish were the easiest for her to digest. Those proteins in a high calorie grain inclusive formula have proven to be the best option. She is currently doing very well on Innova Turkey and Chicken which is 548 calories per cup. The food is moistened to the point the kibble is fully expanded. It is almost mush when stirred. The food is fed 3 times per day as close to 8 hours apart as possible to avoid placing undue pressure on the weakened sphincter muscle.

I have also been adding Mercola probiotics and digestive enzymes. Neither has been added for the past 2 days and there is no difference.

Since Misty’s condition is due to the weakened sphincter muscle, not acid production, Apple Cider Vinegar did not work for her.

Before going to a primarily grain based diet as our situation requires try some of the 3 star grain free brands that would have lower protein and fat than Natures Variety Instinct. Some have 2 lb. packages which would allow you to try without investing in food that may not work. Donate any food that cannot be used to a shelter or local rescue.

[aimee]

Hi Alshasta,

The effect of food components on the pH of the urine can be complex. The sulfur amino acids cysteine and methionine are acidifying and I believe they are found more often in animal based proteins vs. plant protein which is why “meat” is considered acidifying. I’ve also read that corn protein is relatively higher in sulfur AA. However, sulfur AA are only one contribution to the resulting urine pH. Other players are calcium, magnesium, sodium, potassium which are alkalinizing and phosphorus and chloride that are acidifying.

You can call the companies of the food you are interested in and ask what the average pH is of the urine of dogs on their diet. But many companies don’t track health parameters of the foods they produce. You can also predict pH based on the amounts of the previous mentioned components ( there are equations to do this). But the best information will be gotten from your own dog by measuring urine pH over various times of day while on a particular diet.

Increasing water intake to decrease urine concentration can also help decrease crystal formation. I’ve read that Apple Cider Vinegar increases urine pH because it has an “alkaline ash”. I don’t think I’d use Vit. C. I know it was tested in cats and it didn’t have an effect on urine pH but I don’t know what dose was tested.

[LeahT]

Thank you HDM! It seems to be pretty much impossible to find natural dog food without rosemary, extract, or oil, but I have found a few. Wysong seems to be one of the best as far as high in protein and low in carbs/fat, but I can’t find any without rosemary. I’m hoping the new vet we are taking her to next week will be able to do an allergy test so that I know a little more of what I’m looking for, but I do have a few in mind now.

DieselJunki – I have been looking into dehydrated food as well. It looks to be pretty expensive, but I’m perfectly willing to give it a try with her if it will help. Is there something you would recommend?

[LeahT]

Thank you for the links! I read through them and they are all very helpful.

We have been going to the same vet for years, and my parents for many years before now, but I have been wondering for a while if he is sort of out of touch with more current practices. We had taken our lab to another vet about an hour from here, but he brushed her seizures off as being something genetic. He was the one who recommended we try Neurotrophin, but didn’t seem to have any concern about her food. I will definitely be getting her thyroid levels checked as well.

From what I read in those our Jack needs a diet without carbs, low in fat, and high in protein. I would love to put her on a raw food diet, but I honestly don’t know enough about it that I would trust myself to do that. I would rather, at least until I do some additional research, find a dog food brand to try with her that suits that diet.

I have also read online somewhere (I can’t remember if it was this site or somewhere else?) that there might be some link between seizures and rosemary in dog food. Does anyone know if there is any real evidence behind that?

So, does anyone have any recommendations for low carb, low fat, and high protein dry dog food? And possibly one that falls into that criteria that does not have rosemary? I’m not even certain what is considered “low fat” and “low carb” for dog food, but I found a few through this site that seemed to fit that: Back to Basics, Dried-N-Alive Chicken Formula, Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural, EVO Turkey and Chicken Formula, Primal Freeze-Dried Beef Formula, and ZiwiPeak Dehydrated Venison. I’m not sure what would be the best, but the freeze-dried/dehydrated seemed to have the lowest carb content.

Thanks!

[pugmomsandy]

Transitioning can be as slow or fast as you want but I would suggest going by how their output is. If your dog has only eaten one food for several years it might take longer to transition as they are not use to the different kinds of ingredients. I’ve even taken two months or longer on one of mine. Basically I got to 80% new/20% old for over a month but I was transitioning them to a high protein/fat diet – Instinct. I usually go with 25/75 for at least a week and if there stools look good then increase to 50/50 for another week until their stools look good, then 75/25 etc. I didn’t know about probiotics or digestive enzymes back then so those probably would have made transitioning easier. You can even feed a mix of kibbles. I usually feed 2 different kibbles together and mix them up in a 1.5 gallon container in different ratios everytime it gets empty.

Also are you feeding a grain food or grain free food? That might also factor in the transitioning. I went from 1 star food to 4 star food to 5 star food over the coarse of a year.

Of course my fosters get zero transition time. I have know idea what they ate in their previous life and what they ate at the vet. I just give them probiotics, digestive enzymes and ground psyllium and hope for the best. They might have soft stool for a few days and that’s it.

I have found that they transition well on Nutrisource grain free and even Nutrisca. Petflow (and probably other online retailers) offer free shipping when you order a certain amount. Petflow’s amount is $49 so a large bag is usually free shipping. I’d get two large bags at once. They’re packed in the box tighter than one single bag.

Once you know how to read ingredients on dog food, it should be the same for treats. I used to give Beggin Strips, Pupperoni and even cheese balls as treats. Even fed one of my fosters Moist and Meaty after jaw surgery not knowing any better. Right now I use Vital Essentials freeze dried nibblets and Dr Becker Bites and Nutrisca freeze dried for treats. For chewing treats I give dry roasted trachea and tripe chews (very stinky) and fresh chicken feet and fresh trachea.

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/IMG_4047600x450_zpsf34c6610.jpg
Just remember to cut the claws off!

A whole sardine is an easy additon too.

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/IMG_60801024x821_zpsad7d39eb.jpg

Duck and turkey necks are great for chewing and cleaning teeth also. I can find small turkey necks at the health food store sometimes. Chicken necks are always at the ethnic grocery store and so are chicken feet and other kinds of feet.

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/IMG_3998594x640_zpsf920079d.jpg

I don’t think you even mentioned raw food so I’ll stop there!

Yes homemade jerky treats are a money saver. You can even use your oven. Set it to the lowest setting and bake for at least 3 hours thinly sliced strips of chicken or other meat/organs on a lightly greased cookie sheet. I guess the new silicone nonstick bakeware will work. Store in the frig.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by pugmomsandy.
• This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[brianb22]

I was about to ask the same thing.lol. That’s some good info. Thanks! I was researching stores in my city that would sell any of the higher rated brands and I only found one unfortunately. Trying to avoid shipping costs if I can. The ones they have listed are: Advanced Pet Diets, AvoDerm, Blue Buffalo, Canidae, Merrick, Natural Balance, Nature’s Variety, Pinnacle, Royal Canin, Taste of the Wild, Zignature. Seems like they have some that you guys mentioned so I might try those and go from there.
You mentioned transitioning slowly at first and I’ve read that in other places. Exactly what’s the best way of doing that? I’ve switched types of food but the same brand with the small one and she has never seemed like it bothered her. The big one I’ve given the same stuff but have fed her the little one’s food some when I’ve ran out and didn’t have time to go to the store and she’s been fine as well. Would a slow transition mean doing half old, half new for awhile or something like that? I’ve been feeding them eagle pack dry food for the past few years which was given a 4 star review on here so I at least feel pretty good about that. There’s still some red flags but they seem pretty small. I’ll think about keeping that brand in the loop depending on the costs I take on with the new stuff.

[gram]

My question is an extension of the “which food is best”. If you feed a variety of 5 star rated dry foods (i.e. they meet the nutritional requirements), is it a good idea to supplement your adult dogs diet with fresh foods (e.g., tomatoes, apples, eggs, salmon oil, carrots, lean cooked meat, yogurt). All these are foods that my 50 lb. golden mix likes. I feed them to him occasionally as treats. However, should I be feeding them on a regular basis as supplements?
Thanks.
Leslie

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi brianb22 –

It’s great that you’re considering switching to a rotational diet – providing a wide variety of quality species-appropriate foods is the best thing we can do for our pets.

I currently feed a homemade raw diet with different proteins, different supplements and different fruits/vegetables at each meal. When I was feeding kibble, however, I switched to a new brand with a new protein source at the end of every bag (about every 3 weeks for my 110 lb. male bloodhound) – all the while adding a different canned food toppers daily. When you first begin a rotation diet you may find that it will be necessary to slowly transition between brands (because your dogs are used to eating the same thing daily), but once you do it for awhile and your dogs’ guts strengthen you should be able to switch brands with no transition.

Any of the 4 or 5 star foods would be good options to use in your rotation – which foods you choose will really depend on your budget. I used dry foods that were grain-free and had at least 30% protein, some of my favorites were: Orijen, Nature’s Variety Instinct and Acana. I picked canned foods that were grain-free, some of my favorites were: Nature’s Logic, Tripett, ZiwiPeak and Addiction.

I’d also recommend adding some fresh foods to your dogs’ meals occasionally. Some healthy fresh foods: plain yogurt or kefir (high in quality animal-based protein and probiotics for a healthy gut), tinned sardines or mackerel (high in protein and omega 3’s), eggs (high in quality protein and omega 3’s), lean leftover meat (high in quality protein) and steamed low glycemic veggies (high in antioxidants).

Good luck!

• This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi DawnieStrohl –

My advice would be to stop looking for the “best food” – there is no best food. All foods have their pros and cons. Dogs, like every living creature, need variety. Feed several difference foods with different protein sources, this will help mitigate the negative aspects of each food. The less processed the food is the better – so raw foods are healthiest, followed by fresh cooked foods, dehydrated and freeze-dried foods, canned foods, then dry foods. Feeding dry food is fine (it’s convenient and budget friendly) but try topping it with some canned food or fresh food at least a few times a week. Some healthy additions to dry food are eggs, lean meat, tinned sardines, cottage cheese, plain yogurt, kefir and cooked low-glycemic vegetables.

[theBCnut]

Acid reflux meds treat the symptoms without trying to solve the problem and sometimes that makes the problem worse. Your dog should be weaned off the prilosec over the course of a few days, not stopped abruptly. My dog had to be feed small meals a often as I could for a while. The thing that seemed to help the most was 1/2 teaspoon of apple cider vinegar per cup of food and soaking the food. It seems counter-intuitive to add more acid to the dogs stomach when they appear to have an acid overload problem, but really the opposite is at work. High grain diets alter the normal pH of the stomach and the sphincter muscle at the top of the stomach is acid sensitive so isn’t closing all the way. My dog was having problems with this as a 8- 10 week old pup, when we changed his diet to high protein and started adding the vinegar, he ceased to have problems with vomiting anymore, and hasn’t since. He is now 14 months old.

[thecmist]

Thanks Hound Dog! I have been feeding her 3 small meals a day and with the medication its under control. Her two week course of meds ends this week and we’re hoping the reflux will end. I just don’t want to keep her on ID gastro food, its not the best quality food and can’t switch her back to her old food.. Need other food suggestions from anyone out there with dogs who also suffer with acid reflux.

Thanks!

[Hound Dog Mom]

I’ve always heard that dogs with acid reflux should eat 3 – 4 small meals per day, rather than one or two larger meals and that the food should be low in fiber. Wet foods (canned, dehydrated, raw, etc.) are preferable to dry for dogs with acid reflux – if you feed dry wet it prior to feeding. I’ve also heard that supplementation with probiotics, digestive enzymes and unfiltered apple cider vinegar can help.

[thecmist]

My dog has been having a problem with Acid Reflux and was put on Prilosec and ID dog food for 2 weeks.. I was feeding her Natures Variety Instinct Limited Ingrediant, but since the acid reflux she can’t be on it because of the Higher Protein and Fat Content.. Any suggestions are appreciated..

[aussiemom]

What is labeled as chicken meal + depending on the product salmon meal, beef meal etc. are ground items produced at rendering companies. Those rendering companies are not monitored for safety regarding types of animal parts used. They will and do toss any part of an animal into the mix. It was reported that this often includes the packaging in which the parts were shipped to them .Including the styrofoam container + plastic wrapping. All parts of the chicken are included, guts, feet, beaks etc. Once the process is completed to create this toxic mix into meal it is distributed to companies that then add it into dry dog foods. I did read that even some of the best dog food manufacturers do not check on source of meal used.
So when a product is labeled as containing chicken meal it’s not really telling you anything about what’s actually in that product. The problem for dog owners is how to avoid such products. Reading a label that states only ‘chicken meal’ doesn’t tell you from what source that chicken meal was derived.
I have in the past used hund n flocken but the dogs seemed to grow weary of it. Now using Fromm gold mixed with Canidae canned. Is this safe?? Impossible to know.

[Magnus Campbell]

New to the forum.

Just got a 3 and half month old german shepherd/rotti mix from a local animal rescue.

I’ve been reading this forum the past few days trying to find the best food to buy our little guy (trying out some Wellness Core Puppy and Avoderm Rotating Menu – Trout and Peas), but for the past two days he won’t eat any kibble.

I also got him a few cans to top of the kibble and he will eat that. It looks like he doesn’t chew his kibble when eats it and then he ends up throwing it up (I assume because its upsetting his digestive system). He seems totally normal and not sick at all, just won’t eat the kibble and when he does he doesn’t chew and usually yacks later.

So, since he eats the wet and has no problem with it, what would be the best wet food to give him while we slowly ween him onto kibble again?

I want a wet food that would meet Hound Dog Mom’s recommendations for the dry food (i.e. a good calcium/phosphorus ratio). He’s going to be a big boy, so I want to make sure he’s getting what he needs to avoid joint/growing issues.

Thanks!!!

Nick

• This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by Magnus Campbell.

[Hound Dog Mom]

My oldest dog used to eat kibble and Nature’s Variety Instinct kibble was one of the foods I used frequently in his rotation. He did really well on it and I think their kibble is one of the best dry foods available. I use the Nature’s Variety Instinct freeze-dried raw medallions once in awhile for treats. I’ve never fed their frozen raw and I personally wouldn’t because it’s HPP, but due to the fact that it’s HPP it might be a good option for a dog that’s never eaten raw before to help them ease into a less processed diet.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi loveall –

You’re on the right track by feeding a 5 star grain-free food. My only suggestion would be to rotate foods – don’t stick with just one. There is no “best food” – this is why it is important to rotatate, it compensates for the shortcomings of each food. Pick at least two or three different brands (or more) with different protein sources and switch every so often. Rotating foods with strengthen your dog’s digestive system, provide variety and provide you with alternative choices in the event of a recall or formula change. I’d also recommend topping the dry food with a high quality canned food, raw food or healthy leftovers (lean meat, eggs, etc.). Good luck!

[loveall]

Hello…i adopted a now 6 month old…what we think is a rotti/shepherd mix…we found him abandoned under a car outside my daughters school…after battling worms/giardia….he has grown to be approx. 51 pounds…my vet estimated he will be approx. 80 pounds at maturity…i started him on nutro natural…but have switched to blue wilderness…i’am wondering if anyone could give insight to this type/brand of food…since it is confusing with all the diff. Foods…i have remained on dry kibble only…i am hoping someone could give m some advice on what food is best for my lovely mix breed…thank you all

[REASMITH]

Have a 10 yr old Boxer who has a sensitive stomach and also “chews” his paws. He has been eating Iams ProActive Health mini chunks, but recently has started vomiting “little piles”. I need advice on which is the best canned food to feed him. He doesn’t chew the dry food, so therefore, canned food will be the best option. Several years ago he was diagnosed with pancreatitis and recovered and no problems until now. I have read information on several canned foods that will help with sensitive tummy and allergies, such as chewing paws. Any advice will be appreciated and I value advice from dog lovers and hands on experience.

• This topic was modified 4 years ago by Mike Sagman. Reason: Fix Duplicate Topic Title

[spoonyspork]

Okie, I’m sorry this is so long, but want to give as much background as possible for the best choice in foods.

I have an older dog — 14 years old, lab/plott hound mix, currently approximately 60 lbs and looks a little on the lean side to my liking.

We’ve been feeding him Taste of the Wild (can never remember the exact one as I just grab it based on color — it has ducks on the bag?) dry since adopting him 5 years ago, and he has thrived pretty good on that. When we first got him from the shelter he had bald patches all over (almost completely bald on the bottom half) caused by a severe allergy to fleas, and was also rather overweight. Within a few weeks he was lean and shiny with a much higher energy level, etc.

Well over the last year he has begun to show his age. He’s been developing benign tumors all over (each is kept checked by the vet), and his hair has again been falling out. He also constantly has a flea problem despite lots of flea treatments and keeping both inside and outside as flea free as possible (we have no carpet in the house and his bed is switched and washed weekly). In spite of this, he still has a very high energy level and good weight though he’d been starting to look a little TOO lean despite upping the amount of food.

But last week I thought sure I was about to lose him. Long story short, he was diagnosed with vestibular disease and sent home, told it usually improves on its own and the cause is usually never figured out unless it’s tumors on the nerves or an obvious ear infection, but if he improves it’s likely not tumors. He did improve, but the next day his appetite was gone and later started squirting diarrhea that was more blood than stool (hours prior it was normal stool)… so straight back to the vet where he was additionally found to have a GI infection, and put on antibiotics and a wet canned food (Hills I/D). Additionally, the vet suggested I put him on a combo flea/worm pill since topical stuff doesn’t seem to be helping him anymore. His stool sample didn’t show worms or larvae/eggs. I said no to the pill as I wanted to research it first (which I’m pretty sure will be a ‘no’ after reading the side effects! Even just the common side effects were terrible)

It’s been a week now, and he’s slooooowly gained back an appetite as well as near normal mobility (slight head-tilt as I was told would probably happen as well as random missteps or falling over if he tries to take off at a run too quickly)… and now will not *touch* his dry food beyond a couple bites. He doesn’t seem to be being picky about it (and really isn’t a picky dog at all as a rule) — he seems to have trouble actually eating it — after a few bites his head starts to tilt worse and he seems to lose focus and get dizzy, then lose interest. I do have to put his bowl somewhere off the floor as keeping his head down for the amount of time it takes to eat seems to make him dizzy again. His stools are almost normal again though he still seems very raw and sore while trying to ‘go’. I was considering getting more of the I/D from the vet as I thought surely they gave it to us based on it being something easy on his stomach… but reading the ingredients here I’m kind of surprised he didn’t get *worse* on it.

So now my actual point! He is out of the ‘food’ from the vet so this afternoon’s meal will have to be something different (don’t worry; he’ll eat *something* if I don’t get an answer for a while!). I have the looong list of ‘best wet foods’ and was thinking of just switching to taste of the wild wet formula, but I wanted to make sure that is the ‘best’ choice as far as cost-effectiveness as well as with an older dog with the background he has (fleas, skin condition, benign tumors, etc).

I will say I have tried some freeze-dried ‘raw’ diets in the past and my dogs just never seemed to do well with it, and the extra cost, mess, amount needed to feed our large dogs etc just didn’t seem worth it. I will also say I am now somewhat leery of taste of the wild in general, as I may be taking the other dog to the vet as she’s been having very loose stools the last few days too (no blood or pure liquid like his were, but we’re keeping an eye on her) and she just started being fed from the same freshly-opened bag he’d been eating from last week (she had been eating from the older bag while he’d been eating from the freshly opened bag. Trust me it makes sense — they get different amounts that are separated by meal so sometime one ends up eating from a different bag than the other for a couple days)

Okay, I think I’ve given as much info as possible, lol. Thanks for any help!

[Anonymous]

Hi Cyndi,

I’m glad you have made this decision. It will make a big difference–especially with dental health. All the raw feeders on here are giving great advice. 🙂

Here’s a little advice I will give from observing my own dogs. When they got ALL raw, which normally consisted of a boneless meal and a bone-in meal (a leg quarter, a leg, a thigh, wing) each day, and even 2 bony meals per day, they were fine. When I started experimenting w/using dog food for one meal, and a piece of bone-in chicken for the next, I would notice their poops were getting too hard/dry at times. I know dog foods include ingredients to help firm up stools. SO…since chicken backs are SO bony, I don’t think I would feed those every single day if I were you. They are GREAT to start with, but I really think once your dog gets used to them that first week, I personally would just buy leg quarters. My one dog is 50+ pounds and I still feed him drumsticks quite a bit. If you buy a package of quarters, you can just cut the legs off each quarter too. Sometimes THAT becomes my dogs’ entire meal for the day—the drumstick becomes the breakfast, the other part becomes the dinner. I feed whole leg quarters at times too–those are great for cleaning the teeth. I just prefer feeding 2x per day, so sometimes if that’s all I have thawed, it works best to split it up into 2 meals. Plus, I have to pay close attention to portion control for my dogs.

Just keep an eye on things when you start. If stools get too firm, lay off the chicken backs for a day or two. Don’t let this scare you, as once you get going with it, it becomes very natural. I would stick with feeding only chicken for a couple weeks. People on the forum can help you along when the time comes. It’s all about how YOUR individual dog responds to this diet. Two of my dogs have NO problem with more frequent bone-in meals or even a couple days of just boneless meals. My other dog gets looser stools easily, and does better with more bone in his diet.

Good luck! 🙂

[Crepuscular]

Best bang for the buck? We have adopted a 6 month old 30 lb multigeneration mixed breed dog. She is very active (particularly with our twin 6 1/2 year old boys). We are of modest means. I’ve been considering Innova Prime Grain Free (Dry), Wellness Core Dog Food (Dry), and NutriSource Lamb Meal and Rice, or Kirkland Signature Nature’s Domain. There are so many great foods on the site and we want to give “Mitzi” the best food we can afford. Any recommendations for the best possible food that is still reasonably priced??

[Cherrie]

Hello!

Over the years we have adopted 4 stray dogs who have drifted onto our small acreage. For the majority of those years I fed them Solid Gold……until the the size of the largest bags became smaller.

I wanted to ask the forum for recommendations on the best quality and quantity for the buck.

I have tried Canidae…..the best option for size @ 44 lbs. Around $60. But it’s also manufactured by Diamond. I realize Solid Gold is packaged by them as well, but all S.G. varieties smelled great and my dogs loved it!

I have also tried a couple different varieties of Tractor Supply’s 4health. And Diamond Naturals. 35lbs @ $35 or $37. And each type r-e-e-k-e-d of the most horrible dogfood smell. Surprise, surprise: Made by Diamond.

Currently I feed them Merrick’s Whole Earth Farms Adult Food. 35 lbs for around $40. Made by Diamond. *Sigh* But at least it passed the smell test!

I have been trying to find a premium dry kibble in the largest bag possible (35+ lbs) for up to $60 (hopefully not packaged by Diamond)……but I have run out of options and I am hoping the members of this forum could make suggestions for me.

Thank you in advance!

[Lola]

Hi again,
I agree that we need to stop the Blue Buffalo but am just having difficulty trusting these newer, holistic foods since so many of them have been having problems. As I mentioned, I had one of my girls for 17 years until 1991. There were no holistic foods and no recalls, sick dogs, etc. I fed her the old standard Purina products and she did great. I want to do what is best for my baby but am really worried about all of the recalls. I had purchased Natures/Natural? Balance at the store mgrs. suggestion and got it home to find that they were having some problems and that’s why I switched to the BB. Have you found that the Fromm, Merrick, etc. have been better than the more standard foods? Thanks so much for all of your help and advice.

[InkedMarie]

Lola, you have to do what you feel is best. Me, I could not feed a food that has been making dogs sick. There are so many good dog foods out there to choose from; some have never had a recall: Fromm, Dr Tim’s, Annamaet…

[Lola]

Okay, so it is true that dogs are getting sick. That is what I had heard and read and why I am concerned. It’s only been 2 days that she is on 100% BB & I hate to have to have to change her diet so soon but it seems the best option. Honestly, I wonder if the old “tried and true” Pro Plan could be the best thing for her. I don’t ever remember these problems in all the years that we used Pro Plan and they have now improved? their line of products. It just seems that there have been many more problems with the newer, holistic, grain free, specialty foods than there have ever been with the premium, older major brands. So confused. Thanks so much for everyones help.

[NectarMom]

Wow I thought I was the only one with a dog with such horrible symptoms as this. My chihuahua is like a walking epi pen I have to keep injectable steroids and injectable Benadryl on hand in case she gets stung by or bit by an insect. Shes highly allergic to them. I could loose her in. Matter of 2 seconds if I don’t inject her. We were using Acana and she had bad gas and bloat ( she has intestinal food allergies too) I don’t know what ingredient she is allergic to but I know for certain chicken does not agree with her. She also got bad acid reflux on it and so did my other 3 dogs. From what I gather they could not handle the high protein. We switched to Brothers Allergy kibble and the Allergy symptoms eased up but did not totally go away but improved a lot but the acid reflux stayed. ( For a kibble I would still recommend this food) I am still feeding it until I run out and we are now feeding Darwin’s Raw which in only 2 weeks doing a half Darwin’s half kibble a day plus probiotics and enzymes the results for all 4 dogs is amazing. Acid reflux is gone and no gas and stools are always firm. No licking feet and they all seem to have more energy. My oldest just got her teeth cleaned yesterday and my vet made the comment about her fur and asked what I was bathing her in because she had the softest fur. I told him its not the shampoo it is what I am feeding her “Raw”

Seriously, I am not one to push food on anyone with they’re pets but I swear by Raw now and only wish I would have started mine out when they were puppies on it. But if you just cannot feed Raw then I recommend Brothers Allergy or at least a limited ingredient kibble and possibly grain free. Good luck to you. This is one of the best sites and the people on here are very knowledgable and wise.

[Lola]

I recently weaned my 8 year old Belgian Malinois onto Blue Buffalo. I have had her since she was 7 wks. old. I know that there were some issues starting to crop up lately but couldn’t find anything concrete to substantiate them. Some people said that their dogs were getting sick, loose stools, etc. My girl has not seemed to have any problems but I am still concerned about keeping her on Blue. Any advice/suggestions? She is a rescue from a breeder that recommended Pro-Plan Large Breed and that is what I fed her (with some rare exceptions having had to mix with other dry foods) She is very active only when out in our yard but is usually taking it easy when in the house. I am so confused about what is best for her at this stage in her life and worried about so many recalls and problems with Dog food lately.

[taylorjesset]

Hello,
I was wondering if anyone knew anything about K9 Natural Frozen Raw Dog Food (Not the Freeze Dry food)? I was at Pet Food express and I was told this dog food is the way to go. My pup is my baby and I want the best for her!

[texasniteowl]

Thank you both Patty and Hound Dog Mom for your input. I recognize that RAW may be best but it seems intimidating and/or time consuming and/or expensive…and prepackaged/prepared *is* expensive. (Wilson weighs a little over his target weight of 62lbs…we’re currently at 66lb and going down slowly.)

So we do need to stick to dry kibble…at least for now.

I guess I’m leaning towards sticking with the bag of Earthborn Great Plains…at least to finish it…don’t know that I will buy it again. I do have some pumpkin I can add to his meals so I hope that will help with the alternate straining/soft movements. (Also, for what it’s worth, the Great Plains has a guaranteed protein of 34%…lower than the primitive at 38% yes, but much higher than the Fromm’s he was on (27% iirc).)

I will start looking at the options again to try to figure out which to try next. Also, I *am* open to using a topper…either freeze dried or canned. I suppose I just need to account for the calories, right? The rough calorie spot for Wilson’s kibble is 950-975 calories/day. He’s not extremely active…we do around a 1 mile walk daily and he doesn’t get all that many treats. On the Fromm’s, this target had him losing very slowly so I could cut it slightly a bit more, but I’m OK with the extra 5-6 lbs coming off slow.

I have been planning to add fish oil…or Omega 3…supplements. Am confused on amount…do I worry about the amount of epa/dha individually or combined? Example, one product I am looking at has a serving of 2 capsules. That serving contains 360 epa and 250 dha (with the two combined being 610). Is that enough for a dog his size or should I be looking to double that?

I had also been starting to look into Probiotics…HDM I see you listed several human probiotics…no problems with these? I had been looking at Nusentia’s Probiotic Miracle or NWC Naturals Total-biotics but the Swanson for example would be much less expensive.

sigh…apparently I can write novel like responses as well as original posts ;>

[doberdog]

Wow! Very impressed you make your own food for 3 dogs. That definately is something I need to consider. Thank you for your commercial suggestions. You have been very helpful!

[Hound Dog Mom]

If you’re referring to brands of raw, I make my own for my crew so I can be in complete control of quality. If I were to feed a commercial product Answer’s and Aunt Jeni’s would be my top picks.

[doberdog]

Hi Hound Dog Mom!
Are there particular brands that you prefer? The number of choices is overwhelming and we are trying very hard with these young dogs to give them the best dogfood. We have had other dobies in the past and believe that many of their health problems were related to food. Hence, we are trying to make sure that our babies maintain a healthy weight as well as making sure we don’t give them foods that are “toxic” to their bodies.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I don’t have dobermans, but I have “large active dogs” (3 bloodhounds). I’ve found they do best on a high protein, moderate/high fat, low carb raw diet without grains or starches. Their meals average around 50% protein and 35% fat. They seem to maintain their weight better with higher fat levels.

[doberdog]

Thanks for your reply! I welcome any other thoughts on feeding large active dogs!

[Melissaandcrew]

HI doberdog-

It really depends on the dog. My crew eats a variety of foods, and right now the dobers are eating Victor Ultra Pro-grain free and doing well on it so far. I will wait another week or two before deciding how well as they slow transition. They have eaten many foods in the past, and typically seemed to do better with a grain inclusive.

[doberdog]

I have 3 dobies between the ages of 1 to 2 years old. I have been feeding Blue Buffalo Life Protection Large Breed. To date we have had no problems but wondered what other foods you may be feeding to your active adult dobies?

[Melissaandcrew]

Sorry-nothing productive to add except that your comment Patty, cracked me up : )

gebo- I am one of the few that will feed a corn containing product from time to time as part of my rotation. Not that I believe its GOOD for them, but I also do not believe that its the end of the world for a small portion of their diet. I believe in hedging my bets on the current schools of thought to dog feeding. Could one version be better factually(not opinion) then another? Sure-but I do not feel that any methods provide enough definitive proof for me to subscribe to just one. Therefore, I feed grain free, grain inclusive, one that contains corn(from time to time-Pro Pac) raw, dehydrated, fresh, canned, home made etc. While not every one will agree on what method is best, understand that the majority of the regular posters have researched their choosen way/method and do not follow along blindly.

[Mom2Cavs]

Believe it or not, I’m not ignorant on all the facts. I have done my own research to my satisfaction and I have concluded I don’t want to feed foods with corn, or that contain any of the things I mentioned in my post above. You can do whatever suits you and your dogs, and I’ll do what I feel is best for mine.

[Hound Dog Mom]

DoggieDoc22 –

The way you are pushing Jan to research corn, wheat and soy, you seem to be implying that someone that does not feed a food containing soy, corn or wheat will be harming their dog and that foods with corn, wheat and soy are superior to products without corn wheat and soy. Please provide evidence supporting why a food containing corn wheat and soy is superior to a food without corn, wheat and soy – otherwise stop being pushy. Most people here have thoroughly researched what they feed their dogs in order to make the best choices nutritionally and don’t need to be talked to as if they’ve done no research. People also definitely don’t need to be told by some random on an internet forum that their trusted vet is providing them with false information.