Victor Grain Free Dog Food (Dry)

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Rating: ★★★★★

Victor Grain Free dog food receives the Advisor’s highest rating of 5 stars.

The Victor Grain Free product line includes four dry dog foods, three claimed to meet AAFCO nutrient profiles for all life stages and one for adult maintenance (Joint Health).

The following is a list of recipes available at the time of this review.

  • Victor Grain Free Joint Health
  • Victor Grain Free All Life Stages
  • Victor Grain Free Ultra Professional
  • Victor Grain Free Yukon River Salmon and Sweet Potato

Victor Grain Free All Life Stages was selected to represent the other products in the line for this review.

Victor Grain Free All Life Stages

Dry Dog Food

Estimated Dry Matter Nutrient Content

Protein = 36% | Fat = 18% | Carbs = 38%

Ingredients: Beef meal, sweet potato, chicken meal, peas, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), pork meal, alfalfa meal, dried egg product, flax seed (source of omega 3 and 6 fatty acids), potassium chloride, dried kelp, natural chicken flavor, alfalfa nutrient concentrate, montmorillonite, salt, vegetable & fruit pomace (carrot, peas, tomato, celery, beet, parsley, lettuce, watercress, spinach, cranberries, blueberries), pumpkin seed, blueberries, apple, spinach, monosodium phosphate, yeast extract, dried chicory root, yeast culture, vitamins ( vitamin E supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, niacin supplement (source of vitamin B3), vitamin A supplement, d-calcium pantothenate (source of vitamin B5), thiamine mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), biotin (source of vitamin B7), riboflavin supplement (source of vitamin B2), vitamin D3 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), ascorbic acid, folic acid (source of vitamin B9), minerals (zinc sulfate, calcium carbonate, ferrous sulfate, zinc amino acid chelate, iron amino acid chelate, copper sulfate, copper amino acid chelate, manganese sulfate, manganese amino acid chelate, magnesium amino acid chelate, cobalt carbonate), l-lysine, selenium yeast, lecithin, choline chloride, hydrolyzed yeast, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Aspergillus niger fermentation product, dried Bacillus subtilis fermentation product, Yucca schidigera extract, taurine, mixed tocopherols and citric acid (preservatives), rosemary extract

Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 4.2%

Red items when present indicate controversial ingredients

Estimated Nutrient Content
MethodProteinFatCarbs
Guaranteed Analysis33%16%NA
Dry Matter Basis36%18%38%
Calorie Weighted Basis31%37%33%

The first ingredient in this dog food lists beef meal. Beef meal is considered a meat concentrate and contains nearly 300% more protein than fresh beef.

The second ingredient is sweet potato. Sweet potatoes are a gluten-free source of complex carbohydrates in a dog food. They are naturally rich in dietary fiber and beta carotene.

The third ingredient is chicken meal. Like beef meal, chicken meal is also considered a high protein meat concentrate.

The fourth ingredient mentions peas. Peas are a quality source of carbohydrates. Plus (like all legumes) they’re rich in natural fiber.

However, peas contain about 25% protein, a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.

The fifth ingredient is chicken fat. Chicken fat is obtained from rendering chicken, a process similar to making soup in which the fat itself is skimmed from the surface of the liquid.

Chicken fat is high in linoleic acid, an omega-6 fatty acid essential for life. Although it doesn’t sound very appetizing, chicken fat is actually a quality ingredient.

The sixth ingredient is pork meal. Pork meal yet one more protein rich animal-based component.

The seventh ingredient is alfalfa meal. Although alfalfa meal is high in plant protein (about 18%) and fiber (25%), this hay-family item is more commonly associated with horse feeds.

The eighth ingredient lists dried egg product, a dehydrated form of shell-free eggs. Quality can vary significantly. Lower grade egg product can even come from commercial hatcheries — from eggs that have failed to hatch.

In any case, eggs are easy to digest and have an exceptionally high biological value.

The ninth ingredient is flaxseed, one of the best plant sources of healthy omega-3 fatty acids. Provided they’ve first been ground into a meal, flax seeds are also rich in soluble fiber.

Yeast extract is the common name for a broad group of products made by removing the cell wall from the yeast organism.

A significant number of these ingredients are added as specialized nutritional supplements while others are used as flavor enhancers.

However, the glutamic acid (and its chemical cousin, monosodium glutamate, or MSG) found in a minority of yeast extracts can be controversial.

That’s because even though the Food and Drug Administration designated these food additives to be safe decades ago1, the agency continues to receive reports of adverse effects.

So, detractors still object to the use of yeast extract and other glutamic acid derivatives and blame them for everything from Alzheimer’s (in humans) to obesity.

In any case, since the label reveals little about the the actual type of yeast extract included in any recipe, it’s impossible for us to judge the quality of this ingredient.

From here, the list goes on to include a number of other items.

But to be realistic, ingredients located this far down the list (other than nutritional supplements) are not likely to affect the overall rating of this product.

With five notable exceptions

First, montmorillonite clay, a naturally occurring compound rich in many trace minerals. Montmorillonite has been approved for use in USDA Organic Certified products.

Reported benefits include the binding of certain mold-based toxins and even controlling diarrhea and irritable bowel syndrome (IBS).

Next, chicory root is naturally rich in a substance called inulin… a starch-like compound made up of repeating units of carbohydrates and found in certain roots and tubers.

Not only is inulin a natural source of soluble dietary fiber, it’s also a prebiotic used to promote the growth of healthy bacteria in a dog’s digestive tract.

Thirdly, this recipe also contains selenium yeast. Unlike the more common inorganic form of selenium (sodium selenite), this natural yeast supplement is considered a safer anti-cancer alternative.

Next, we note the use of dried fermentation products in this recipe. Fermentation products are typically added to provide enzymes to aid the animal with digestion.

And lastly, this food also contains chelated mineralsminerals that have been chemically attached to protein. This makes them easier to absorb. Chelated minerals are usually found in better dog foods.

Victor Grain Free Dog Food
The Bottom Line

Judging by its ingredients alone, Victor Grain Free looks to be an above-average dry dog food.

But ingredient quality by itself cannot tell the whole story. We still need to estimate the product’s meat content before determining a final rating.

The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 36%, a fat level of 18% and estimated carbohydrates of about 38%.

As a group, the brand features an average protein content of 39% and a mean fat level of 19%. Together, these figures suggest a carbohydrate content of 34% for the overall product line.

Above-average protein. Above-average fat. And below-average carbs when compared to a typical dry dog food.

And a fat-to-protein ratio of about 49%.

Even when you consider the protein-boosting effect of the peas, this looks like the profile of a kibble containing a significant amount of meat.

Bottom line?

Victor Grain Free Dog Food is a meat-based dry kibble using an abundance of beef, chicken and pork meals as its main sources of animal protein, thus earning the brand 5 stars.

Enthusiastically recommended.

Special Alert

Rice ingredients can sometimes contain arsenic. Until the US FDA establishes safe upper levels for arsenic content, pet owners may wish to limit the total amount of rice fed in a dog's daily diet.

A Final Word

The descriptions and analyses expressed in this and every article on this website represent the views and opinions of the author.

Although it's our goal to ensure all the information on this website is correct, we cannot guarantee its completeness or its accuracy; nor can we commit to ensuring all the material is kept up-to-date on a daily basis.

Each review is offered in good faith and has been designed to help you make a more informed decision when buying dog food.

However, our rating system is not intended to suggest feeding a particular product will result in specific health benefits for your pet.

For a better understanding of how we analyze each product, please read our article, "The Problem with Dog Food Reviews".

Remember, no dog food can possibly be appropriate for every life stage, lifestyle or health condition. So, choose wisely. And when in doubt, consult a qualified veterinary professional for help.

In closing, we do not accept money, gifts or samples from pet food companies in exchange for special consideration in the preparation of our reviews or ratings.

To learn how we support the cost of operating this website, please visit our public Disclosure and Disclaimer page.

Have an opinion about this dog food? Or maybe the review itself? Please know we welcome your comments.

Notes and Updates

06/06/2011 Original review
06/13/2011 Review updated (added Ultra Professional recipe)
06/02/2012 Last Update

  1. L-Glutamic Acid, FDA Select Committee on GRAS Substances
  • Joey Smith

    Alrighty thank you very much!

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Hi Joey –

    Unfortunately the Victor grain-free formulas are too high in calcium for large and giant breed growth. If you want to feed your pup a quality grain-free kibble here’s a list of 4 and 5 star grain-free foods that do have appropriate calcium levels for large and giant breed growth:

    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFY183Q0NVRXlidWc/edit

  • Joey Smith

    I have an 8 week old English Mastiff so will the GF ALS be good for him being a large/giant breed?

  • http://www.facebook.com/billandchick Billy Pullin

    You can buy it online and I got free shipping.

  • Theo
  • http://www.facebook.com/jack.tripper.3950 Jack Tripper

    i went to their website and used their ‘find a store’ feature. the closest store to me is 25 miles away and happens to be in compton, ca so i think i’ll have to pass unfortunately. i don’t want to drive that far nor do i want to step foot in compton if i can help it (gang territory). also, i have a costco, petsmart and a kriser’s (look it up, awesome!) within a couple miles of me. i wish this food could get wider distribution.

  • 3weims

    HI Erika Got an answer today. Victor said the ocean meal is comprised of cold-water fish. Mostly Alaskan Salmon and some Sardine. also said similar ingredients to their GF Yukon (but not grain-free).

  • FrankA

    Yes depending in the dog that your giving it too. What the GF Ultra Professional (black & gold bag) does is basically build more defined muscle to your dog. It leans them out only having 17% carbohydrate. Pretty much like a body builder. My French Bulldog has been on it for 5 months now and he has leaned out but put more muscle mass. His health is outstanding has never had health issues the skin coat is super shinny the whites are almost silver looking blacks are very glossy. He has plenty of energy. I would recommend this is you don’t mind spending the extra cash. It’s well worth it. The food is designed for muscular dogs that want that show look. I get a lot components on my French Bulldog. I buy my food at a local feed store here in Houston, TX the bag runs me $39.99 plus tax. Best deal I have found in Houston. Other stores sell it for about $45 and up.

  • Melissaandcrew

    Wow! great pricing! Here in NY its 33.99 for the grain inclusive(purple bag) $45-47 for the Ultra Pro, and the regular ALS is $41-43. I truly think their ultra pro is a great product, especially for the price point and 42 percent protein.

  • doglova

    At my feed shop its 39.99 for the regular grain-free (30 lbs) and 42.99 for Ultra Pro. The 4-star Victor beefmeal/rice kibble is also a steal at 26.99 for 40 lbs!

    From what I can tell the only dog foods that are competitive with Victor in terms of price and quality are the Costco brands. And naturally the Victor grain-free gets much better reviews.

  • Doglova

    Thanks for the reply.

    Mine is a Weimarer/Rottweiler/Black Lab mix. I dunno about her being fat sensitive. She thrives best on a raw meat diet but I haven’t been able to do that lately due to fridge/money issues.

  • 3weims

    FYI — just went to sportdogfood.com. They have Free shipping on $60 today. I picked up a 30lb Ultra $41 and a 40lb Professional for $30 .. no shipping. $71 out door – can’t beat that.

  • 3weims

    Funny you mention this (runny eyes) about ALS. One of mine is having a similar problem. I thought it was allergies. I’m going to try them on GF Ultra & Professional.

  • Melissaandcrew

    Doglova-

    That depends on your dog since each is different. For me, I think the Ultra Pro is worth it. This is the first time I have found a grain free that all three of my dobes can eat-one with a super sensitive stomach, one with IBD, and one that is hard to keep weight on. No stomach/intestinal issues what so ever, and ALL have gained a few lbs to the point that I have had to decrease the amount being fed : ) I could not feed it however to the others as the fat content is too high(fat sensitive breed)

    I have 5 bags of the ALS(red bag) left and I am still deciding whether to continue with it. My white dog has developed the WORST tear stains/runny eyes ever and its making me unhappy since he looks like a sad clown now.

  • 3weims

    I agree and you’ll most likely find yourself feeding less (this should offset the extra few dollars). How much are you paying at your feed shop?

  • Pattyvaughn

    If I was going to feed any of this brand it would have to be the Ultra Pro. It’s the one with high enough protein for mine. I feed half high protein kibble and half raw to boost the protein even more. My dogs are doing great and have never looked better.

  • Doglova

    Any opinions one whether getting the Ultra Pro is worth the extra few dollars?

    Recently I got the grain-free (33% protein with beef meal as 1st ingredient). I thought about getting the Ultra Pro for a few bucks more (42% protein with chicken meal and chicken fat as 1st ingredients). I asked the lady at the feed shop and she said the protein shouldn’t exceed 35%. Plus, since I give my dog raw chicken sometimes (but hardly ever raw beef), I was thinking a kibble with alot of beef meal would be good for balance.

    What do you’all think? Is the extra protein and chicken fat in the Ultra Pro worth the extra few dollars?

  • Erika

    Thanks. Can’t hurt to ask them.

  • Melissaandcrew

    I would call and ask what kind of fish is in it-

  • Erika

    Thanks! My dog has some problems with allergies and food sensitivities and fish based foods seem to work well for her, but the food she is on now is one of the vet diets and I want to get her on something of a better quality.

  • Crazy4cats

    Hi-
    I just called them and they do not have a distributor in our area for either the dog or cat food. I live in suburb of Seattle WA. They do not sell the cat food online yet either. Oh well, thank you for trying!

  • 3weims

    Not too sure. I got this from dogfoodadvisor.com. “fish meal contains almost 300% more protein than fresh fish itself.” Melissaandcrew … any input? maybe email Victor Dog food or their FB page? Why Yukon? Have you looked at Ultro Pro?

  • Erika

    The Yukon River formula says it contains “ocean fish meal”. Is that an ingredient to be concerned about since it isn’t specific as to what type of fish it came from?

  • 3weims

    Thats why I sent it ;) they also make a horse feed. not in the market for cat food. maybe SportDogFood.com carries it? they’re the only place i know that has all the Victor dog food formulas.

  • Crazy4cats

    3weims-
    Looks like the Mers cat food is made by same company! Frustrating web site though. Doesn’t really tell where you can buy it. I had the same frustration with the victor site. Wouldn’t know where to buy unless I saw your post.

  • Crazy4cats

    No, I haven’t seen that site. I took a peek and saw it had some beautiful cat pictures. I’m definitely going to take a closer look. Also, I’ll let you know if I give the salmon a try. Thanks again.

  • 3weims

    Hey Crazy4cats. see this?
    http://www.merscatfood.com/

  • 3weims

    I bet Victor GF is doing well with all the recent Evo, Innova, Cal Nat recalls.

  • 3weims

    Heard great things about GF Ultra. 33/15 Slook pretty solid too especially if you’re allergic to chix, meat. Salmon first ingredient. send feedback if you decide to try.

  • Crazy4cats

    3weims-
    Thank you much. Has anyone tried the g/f salmon?

  • 3weims

    there is a link on their home page “coupons & samples” —sends you to facebook. https://www.facebook.com/sportdogfood. i dont see an expiration on the coupon — not sure. good luck

  • Crazy4cats

    Hi-
    This is great information. We do not have Victor in our area and have been interested in trying it. I have two big dogs. It sounds like great food at an even greater price. Do you happen to know how long the 25% discount is running? I don’t really need any dog food right now, but would hate to miss out on a discount. I am going to turn in to a pet food hoarder. LOL! Also do you know if they make any cat food as I also have four feline babies? Thank you in advance.

  • 3weims

    We are feeding ALS. Now that you mention it … I agree we might be using a little too much. Heard great things (including your post) re: Ultra Pro. I’m going to give that a trial. thanks for the info. I think you’re spot on. GF Ultra Pro and Professional are best in the line.

  • Melissaandcrew

    Just an update on our Victor “try out”-

    Ultra Pro-very active dobes, one with sensitive stomach-all doing great. They have gained a bit of weight on it, so we are cutting back a touch. No stomach problems etc, coats great, energy levels wonderful.All in all, working wonderfully and very happy with it!

    Als-Red bag-not as impressed with it for a multitude of different dogs. Feed through is higher than our usual acana products. 20lb schnauzers need 1 1/2 cups per day, and even the old, low energy ones required higher feed amounts to maintain weight-several dropped a lb or two when fed the 1 cup we normally feed of Acana. I mixed in a bag of Acana Lamb/apple this week as I do not like my dogs losing weight. Also, two refused to eat it after a while unless topped with canned or raw. If things return to normal with the mix of Acana back in, I would/will still use it as part of the rotation, just making sure to not feed it as the solo ration for an extended period of time.

    Professional formula_grain inclusive-26%/18%-dogs eating this one have firm stool,. seem to love it, and so far, they are holding their weight, and seem to be doing well.

    All in all, I think Victor has a solid, decent line that many people will benefit from using, as well as a lower price point.

  • 3weims

    Same here & great results. Rocketpetz is good. we get from http://www.sportdogfood.com (a little cheaper) depending on where you are in the US. they have a 25% off coupon listed on Dog Food Advisor. code: FB25

  • OKSooner

    I have been feeding Victor for over a year now and have had no problem. I just order two bags from http:/www.rocketpetz.com and get free shipping, packed good too. My dogs love the food so I don’t have any problem with that. I also feed a little raw as a treat.

  • Pingback: Victor foods? Anyone heard of them?..... - Page 4

  • Pattyvaughn

    I totally agree with Melissa, best can only be determined by how the individual dog does on the individual food. If I have to choose from only label info, I would go with the highest protein Victor. But I would still choose a few foods and rotate between them.

  • mydogisme

    Dixie is eating Castor and Pollux organic and Natures beef,venison Instinct brand and found cookies, freezed dryed raw with 40 percent pretein from the same company. The cookies are 10.00 for 20 small cookies. I use them as toppers for her food. These 2 companies are 5 star with no red listed ingre. If anyone knows of anything better or “the best”
    food for my baby,let me know. She has died on me 3 times and had cysts come up on her the size of an egg that were drained,she has a very strong will to live(I hope its because of me and she knows how much she is loved),went through a blood transfusion, and bottles of antibiotics. Now she is on 2 shots a day of insulin,and 1, 5mil.of predisone everyother day. So far so good. She has to have her water warmed up,cant handle cool or cold water,she will throw up everything. She will eat about 1 cup of food daily and at 15 lbs I think that is pretty good. Please let me know if anyone has any ideas that may help that 8 Dr.s have not already gone over her with a fine tooth comb. They say they have never seen anything like this before,but that it maybe a autoimmune blood that caught up with her down the line in her genes.

  • Pattyvaughn

    If you absolutely want just one brand then Brothers Complete would be my pick, but inspite of the fact that I love Brothers and I think it is the best food out there, hands down, you have to understand that no single food is prerfect. I agree with Losul, date, go steady even, but don’t marry.

  • Melissaandcrew

    colt-what is best for one, will not be best for another. If you are feeding a 4 or 5 star food and your dog does well on it, its working for him/her. If not, its time to move on.

  • losul

    “I am on a mission to find a great trustworthy pet food company that i can stick with and not have to worry.”

    Don’t fall in love and marry any of them, just go on dates with the one’s you and your dog get along best with.

  • colt45

    Fromm vs Victor What do you think is a better food?

  • colt45

    Hey thanks for writing me back. Yeah i just started mixing his food The past month. He Was on blue buffalo wilderness for a few years and i wish i knew more about food at the time cause i would have never had him on that junk if i would have known how bad they really are.. all about the money and not bout the dog its a shame. I am on a mission to find a great trustworthy pet food company that i can stick with and not have to worry. So if any one has any suggestions that would be awesome thank a bunch..

  • Pattyvaughn

    Picking several different brands of food and rotating is definitely the way to go for good gut health. Many people who are regulars on here keep a list of what foods work for their dogs and just keep switching it up.

  • Melissaandcrew

    Hi Colt-
    As for the grain frees, so far so good. I put my dobes on the Ultra Pro-one has a very very sensitive stomach. She is still getting the Abady granular mixed in with it, but with one cup of the dry mixed in, no issues to date. The others are getting the ALS mixed with their Acana Grassland-not because there is a problem, but because I wanted to use up the Grassland that I have . Next week they will be on the Victor ALS and the Ultra “solo” so we will see how it goes for a longer period of time. I do add in commercial raw, home cooked, canned and dehydrated so its hard to tell sometimes how ours do on “just the dry”

  • colt45

    Alright thanks for your advice. Im on my 3rd food this month im Just trying to find a pet food company thats not all about the money and more for The dogs health. I Tried Acana blue buffalo Fromm and now on Victor i just want to Know im feeding a really good honest food

  • colt45

    Yes i was wonder about the grain Free Victor line. thank you for getting back to me so fast. I just put my 4 year old amstaff on the Victor gf all life stages formula trying to figure out if its as good as people say it is

  • Pattyvaughn

    Are you asking about the 3 varieties of Victor that Melissa got? All of them meet AAFCO standards. AAFCO standards are pretty much the absolute minimum quality to keep your dog breathing, so the only foods that don’t meet that are for supplemental feeding or those that have a philosophical difference of opinion about what a dog needs and won’t bend to AAFCO.

  • Pattyvaughn

    The best 5 star food may be different for every dog, it’s the one your dog does best on. In my opinion it’s Brothers Complete, others will tell you Orijen or Natures Variety or any number of other foods.

  • colt45

    And honestly want to know what the best 5 star food is? Whats the most honest and trustworthy pet food company?

  • colt45

    I was wondering what of The 3 foods met the AAFCO standards?

  • Melissaandcrew

    Thanks Labs-its really too soon to judge anything except initial impressions, and those were good. I like the fact that there are many options for the various needs of our dogs and all appear to be 4 or 5 star.-so hopefully it will pan out. With the Acana still being difficult to get all the varieties I need, I am thinking now is a good time to give them a break from that brand and try another completely. As soon as the shortage is resolved, I will move back to it as I really think the dogs to date have done the best on it.

  • LabsRawesome

    Thanks Melissa. Victor looks like a good food w/ a good price point. I hope your dogs continue to do well on it. :)

  • Melissaandcrew

    Hi Labs-

    The grain free varieties are 30 lb, and the grain inclusive are 40 (largest sizes) I paid the following here in NY with protein/fat content-

    Ultra Pro (GF) 30lbs-42/22 44.99
    All life stage(GF) 30lbs-33/16-40.99
    Yukon River(gf)-(fish)30lbs 33/15-45.99(did not try this one yet)

    Select professional-grain inclusive(26/18) 32.99 40lb
    The beef/rice is 40lb(not sure of fat etc as I have not tried) $29.99 or 26.99-can’t remember

  • LabsRawesome

    Hi Melissa, What is the bag size/price for the Victor grain-free?

  • Melissaandcrew

    I made the trip and picked up three varieties of Victor-2 grain free-Ultra and ALS, and one grain inclusive to try with the rescues that are staying here-Select Professional (purple bag). First impressions are good. The gf are a very small kibble(similar to the fromm salmon a la veg) and the other is just slightly larger. I mixed it in at a rate of 1/3 what they are eating and not a single upset stomach in either of the varieties.

    I bought the Ultra Pro to try with my sensitive dobergal-its the lowest of the line in fiber that I saw. I added 1/3 cup with her meals for the past two days and so far so good! Hoping it works out as the price point is amazing and it seems like a decent option to add to the rotation, especially with Acana so hard to get still.

  • http://www.facebook.com/greg.rolls.3 Greg Rolls

    Where do you live in Ohio? My local feed store in Somerville, OH sells the salmon/sweet potato formula for ~$40/bag.

  • http://www.facebook.com/greg.rolls.3 Greg Rolls

    I don’t know where you live, but I just found this food at my local feed supply store. I live in northern Butler County between Cincinnati and Dayton.

  • Melissaandcrew

    Thanks 3weims-your even further than the other place however. I will make the trip in the next few days and get a few different varieties. Trying to get my local place to carry(I believe they can get it, so should be able to special order) Thanks again!

  • 3weims

    We are on Long Island. What formula are you looking for? what is your zip code? Maybe shipping won’t be that bad combined with a discount on the bag. Lmk

  • Melissaandcrew

    3weims-

    what part of NY are you in?

  • 3weims

    Hi Melissa. We just started selling Victor. We are in NY as well. If your feed store can’t help, we’d love to send you some quotes. rdgs phil

  • Melissaandcrew

    Just wanted to say that Victor has come to NY(upstate at least) at one store. I am going to be making the hour plus trip each way to check out the foods/pricing on it. If something works for my crew, I will have to see about direct deliveries here as I can’t see myself driving over two hours on a regular basis to get food!

  • Heidi

    That is why I switched to Victor Grain Free. The Wellness Core kept going up in price. My dogs were doing well on it but I thought I would give Victor a try and it has been a good experience. My dogs have been on it several months now and I think their coats are looking even better!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    You’re right Pumkin, everyone dog is different. Glad you’ve found what works for your dog. : )

  • Pumkin

    Read your comment wingmaster and made an appointment w a canine dermatologist. Good thing I did, because mid transistion her skin got real bad, she was super itchy and she was losing more hair. Well the dermatologist highly supects it may be a parasite, even he couldn’t find any when he tested her. We both doubt it may be the food, esp since I had her on the original professional formula before going GF, and she was growing hair back an not as itchy. Still we took precautions and he treated her for parasites . I’m also giving her anti bacterial/fungal baths and just as another precaution started her on a allergenic food diet. Highly doubt it environmental, then again I’m no expert. If it is not a protein/food allergy I will stick w the professional. Not anything against GF, just very happy w the other formula and Victor. Even got three other people to start trying Victor.

    BTW treating my other two for parasites, even though they look great and show no symptoms…..better safe than sorry.

  • Bill

    Victor GF Professional (Red Bag) Update.  Rocky has now been on it for 4 months and just doing great.  $45 including tax out the door at a local feed store here in Tucson and I can’t say enough about the quality/price combination.  He is 7 1/2 and keeps up with the large breed 1 – 2 year olds at the dog park like its nothing.  Will be on this food for the long haul.

  • Wingmaster01

    Food allergies, especially “meat” are the least likely reasons for your dog’s hair loss. Have you taken the dog to a Vet that specializes in dermatology? Many times its a Genetic issue where there is an autoimmune disorder, hard to diagnose. Too many people blame the food when they should be seeing a Vet specialist first. 

  • BryanV21

    Just an FYI, chicken and beef are among the higher allergens when it comes to meat, so if the itching continues let us know and we can recommend some foods without either of them (probably would stay away from lamb too).

  • Pumpkin

    K Just got done transitioning my pup from Victor Professional (original) to GF Yukon.  She was only 3 month when patches of fur was missing. After a trip to the vet w no clue what was happening I went to the local feed n tack. He educated me on possible food allergies. First we decided to get rid of corn by products and most of her fur is back, She still itches, so gonna try the GF. 

    Gonna keep my Min Pins on Pro Form, both of which look tremendous. Cant say enough about Victor. 

  • Vickie Brooks

     Wow Wellness Core in VA and our local feed store is $60 a bag.  Victor Grain Free is only $44.

  • Dave

    Victor is a really good line of foods and a super value. I would certainly pick this food over Acana, Orijen, Fromm and Earthborn. Acana, Fromm GF and Earthborn are semi-vegetarian foods and not worth the money. The guy that runs Victor knows his stuff.

  • Heidi

    I have switched my dogs over to VGF from Wellness Core and they are doing well so far. I am able to buy it for $39.99 for a 30 pound bag at a local feed store, so the savings are substantial and I feel I am getting a quality dog food.

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  • Wendt Worth Corgis

    http://www.rocketpetz.com has the food and if orders are more then $69 the shipping is free and the food is nicely priced.

  • Dave’s Hounds

    Ed do you order online or is it available locally? I have never seen this food but it looks great
     

  • Ed

    Our 2 mixed breed dogs are doing great on Victor GF. They started 3 months ago and had we switched from Acana GF after seeing it on sale at the feed store.

  • LabsRawesome

     Yeah, melissa, I would like to try Victor GF too. But it’s not available where I’m at either.  :(

  • melissa

    Dave-

    I have not either. I contacted the company and they do not have a huge distribution yet like some foods. Antonio, who used to post here regularly started his dobie on this and last I heard, he was doing great on the grain free. Hope Antonio stops by and lets us know how his boy is doing on it, as it has been quite a while. I know his dog did not do well on some other grain frees. If they ever make it as far North as NY< I would not hesitate to give it a try based on Antonio's reports.

  • Dave’s Hounds

    I have never seen this food anywhere

  • Brownekar

    Our local kennel uses only this food and says that none of the dogs that board with them refuse it.  My next purchase will be Victor!

  • bill1023

    Been feeding Rocky (boxer/pitbull mix) Victor Grain Free for 3 weeks now.  He would be fussy sometimes and miss some meals on Wellness Super5Mix, although he did good on that brand.  But this he just scarfs down, doesn’t hesitate.  Very happy with the ingredient list and the way he looks.  What a  food and what a dog!

  • LabsRawesome

     Gawingmasters, Champion’s chicken comes from Alberta Canada, watch the video.  http://orijen.ca/fresh_regional/chicken

  • Gawingmasters

    Agilityace,  How do you know Acana buys its Chicken Protein from Griffin Industires?

  • LA

    I know the issue with bone pieces in the kibble was in even here – my friend found a piece of salmon bone sticking out of the kibble  – but the company took care of this and now you will see they say deboned or boneless on their bags  – to see a picture of kibble with the bone go here
    http://www.boston-terriers.com/food.htm

  • Marie

    No dogs were affected in the Australian recalls because dog make their own vitamin A – the vitamin that was destroyed in the irradiation process – and cats do not. That was the cause of death for the cats, and why dogs did NOT have a similar issue. That’s why only the cat food was recalled because only cats were being affected. I’m not defending Champion’s handling of the situation, just pointing out why they probably didn’t recall the dog food.

    As for profit margins, they had literally shipped a few dozen pallets of food in total as Champion was just beginning to feel out Australia as a market. They had little investment other then that at the time. Since the Australian government feels as though  food that’s been cooked only a mere 10C under an arbitrary standard justifies irradiating it hundreds of times beyond what’s considered standard practice for human food, so much so to the point of UNRAVELING basic vitamins, maybe it’s better that Australian pet owners no longer have to worry about their government’s idiocy in that regard.

  • LA

    if you engine search Champion Foods there is no mention of the company being sold – there is a whole issue concerning the recall of the food and the problem they had inAustralia, but this was years ago and I would think was taken care of
    Per the article:    Recalls
    of Champion Petfoods products are not uncommon. Champion Petfoods have had three
    separate recalls in five short years.  The first recall to surface was
    in 2003. Champion Petfoods were manufacturing dry food products using rendered
    material from carcasses that were unfit for human consumption. One particular
    carcass was infected with pneumonia. Apparently, Champion Petfoods did not have
    any issues using material from sickly animals for the manufacturing of pet food,
    it was later found that this animal was also infected with BSE, ‘mad cow
    disease’.
    [Link to malware infected website removed by Moderator]

    The second recall was in 2008
    where large bone shards from salmon were found in Orijen dry pet food.
    Dangerously large, sharp and pointed bones were left protruding from the kibble,
    so sharp that pet owners cut their hands when handling the food. There were also
    reports of pets being injured. Champion Petfoods quality control was sadly
    lacking to have missed this potentially disastrous problem. http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=34536&highlight=orijen+bones.
    The third recall in November 2008
    appears to be the most damaging and devastating. On the 20th November, Champion
    Petfoods announced a voluntary recall of all Orijen brand cat and dog food sold
    in Australia. This was due to Australian veterinarians finding a link between
    cats suffering from an unknown neurological syndrome and the consumption of
    Orijen pet food. Champion Petfoods were alerted to the problem associated with
    their product approximately 2 months prior to the voluntary recall date. As
    these problems were only reportedly seen in Australia it was concluded that the
    gamma irradiation treatment of Orijen pet food required under Australia’s
    quarantine laws left the food hazardous to cats. Below is
    the first recall notice released by Champion Petfoods:Orijen_Recall_Nov22.pdf

    This
    article in The Sydney Morning Herald regarding the Australian Orijen recall was
    the first many had heard of a possible problem. http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/cat-food-firm-blames-deaths-on-quarantine-controls/2008/11/27/1227491735559.html
    Once
    Champion Petfoods eventually decided to take the dangerous Orijen product off
    Australian shelves, the recall was poorly coordinated. One pet food supplier in
    Australia that had sold hundreds of kilograms of Orijen and says, “Even if irradiation is to blame the
    company was too slow to react.” And “For Champion Pet Foods to be aware that there is a potential problem
    and say nothing, I think is totally irresponsible.” http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2008/s2464272.htmAnother
    statement from an online pet food retailer who emailed a customer in regard to
    Champion Petfoods badly coordinated recall. “I just wish that we were notified earlier about the recall as we
    have all the email addresses of our customers and could have notified them
    straight away. It is interesting how the update says they recalled the food on
    Nov 20. When you go into the document properties of the recall notice pdf file
    it was actually created on the Nov 22nd 2008 and sent to retailers even later
    than that. It has been very poorly coordinated”.
    The
    poorly coordinated Orijen recall left some loyal retailers & customers
    unaware of a problem. At least 3 affected cats only ate Orijen dog food. Some
    retailers who enquired about the recall were told to only remove the Orijen Cat
    food; these actions are concerning as both the cat and dog foods had undergone
    the exact same irradiation process. Affected pet owners & retailers have
    expressed frustration and anger at how the sloppy recall was handled. They feel
    that Champion did not care about the welfare of their pets but were more
    concerned about their profit margins and ramifications from the latest
    recall.

  • hounddogmom12

    Agilityace,

    Champion’s chicken is sourced locally from Alberta.

    http://orijen.ca/fresh_regional/chicken

  • Agilityace

    Hate to burst your bubble Dane Lover. Champion buys the chicken protein from Griffin Industries in Alabama.

  • Dane Lover

    p.s. Vets get very little training in nutrition.  They are not the best qualified when it comes to food consultation.  Most push certain brands because they get BIG kickbacks.  ”Prescription” foods and over use of vaccines are the proverbial “meat and potatoes” for most vets.  

  • Dane Lover

    It’s the calcium to phosphorus ratio; it has NOTHING to do with “high” protein.  Fresh meat naturally has less of everything (except water) compared to concentrated meat meals so manufacturers need to be more careful keeping the ratio balanced. Remember that protein builds lean muscle mass.  It’s the starch (i.e. sugars) in carbs. that can cause too quick weight gain in dogs, inluding pups, and that’s regardless if it’s grains, potatoes, tapioca, garbanzo beans, lentils, etc. You CAN feed high protein food to pups no problem AND to diabetics dogs AND to dogs with kidney problems.  The “too much protein” argument needs to die once and for all.
    I feed both my Danes Orijen which, in my experience, is the best commercial food out there today.  That company only sources locally, includes a lot of fresh meats, uses only animal fat and, in light of the recent recalls, only makes their own food in their own manufacturing plant unlike 99% of all other companies out there.  However, raw is superior to all.

  • Shawna

    Protein causing problem in large breed puppies has been disproven…  They now know that it isn’t protein that is the problem but rather the over consumption of calories in general — eating too much…  Foods too high in calcium (even if correctly balanced to phosphorus) are problematic as well.  Protein is not an issue though :) ..

  • http://www.southernrebelskennel.com/ Southern Rebels Kennel

    Be careful using a high protin food on a very large breed puppy.  The protin can make thier muscles grow really well but thier bones can have a hard time catching up to the muscle mass and cause very painful bones and joints.  Talk to you vet about it before putting the puppy on a high protin food.  Hope this helps.

  • gaffagirl

    Thank you! That natures select looks interesting too!

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    Try finding the calorie counts for each food and start with the same amount of calories. 

  • gaffagirl

    I can’t find feeding guidelines on their website. If I am feeding 1 cup per day of diamond naturals to a 14 lb dog, how much should I feed grain free? I’m thinking it shout stay the same. Its going to be a long hot summer here in East Texas. She doesn’t need to lose weight. She is perfect.

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    I have plenty of small dogs and change their flavor of food every bag and mix 2 together frequently. And I also feed canned foods and raw.  They are used to frequent changes and variety and have no problems eating one kind of food one day and a different food the next.  Nature’s Select is also made in Texas and have a food similar to the Victor Grain Free (sweet potato based). I’m not familiar with the price of Victor’s or Solid Gold. Adding in 20% of fresh foods can also help stretch out the bag of kibble and give them better nutrition. Additions like fresh meats and fish, canned fish, eggs, small amount of cooked veggies and small amounts of fruit.

    http://www.naturalpetfooddelivery.com

  • gaffagirl

    Would it be inadvisable to mix two different kibbles such as Solid Gold Just A Wee Bit and Victor Grain Free?

  • gaffagirl

    I’m glad to see that this food has such good reviews. I had my cairn terrier on nutro natural choice before finding this site. Then I tried a 4 lb bag of Solid Gold Just a a Wee Bit which she loved and gave her a nice wiry coat. I would have no problem continuing to feed it if it wasn’t so pricey. We are now trying to finish a 20 lb bag of Diamond Naturals Lamb and Rice. It’s not a bad food but I’ve noticed more stool in the yard. And these recalls have me panicking! Even though the feed shop i bought it from assured me none of her bags were recalled. I think Victor Grain Free will be next! Much more reasonable than Solid Gold and since I’m in Texas, I love the fact that it’s a company near home. I’m trying to find a food we are both happy with. Is there any harm that can come from changing her food this often? I always use the 10 day transition. Anyone have small, 20 lb and under dogs on this food?

  • Wendt Worth Corgis

    I’ve been wanting this food for sometime now. I live in Ohio and the one distributor the Victor site has I contacted and is not selling the food any longer just because he wasn’t getting the demand for it but he sounded Amish so might of had issues distributing or marketing the product. I’ve spoken with Kevin from Victor who said he could sell me a pallet of 50 40lb bags of food for $1100 and shipping would cost $600 and thats a one time fee per delivery so more pallets ordered would lower the cost per bag. I would love to find others who would be interested in going in on this and ordering a few pallets. If 3 pallets ordered and split 3 ways..it would cost $1300 making each bag only $26.00!!!! 

  • Carleen

    I have been feeding Victor Professional to my 4 yr old Great Dane. I am getting a new Great Dane puppy in a few weeks and was thinking of going to the Grain Free for both of them. Thoughts???

  • Rebecca Holt

    I have been using Victor dog food for almost 3 weeks now and love it.I am switching to the Victor grain free dog food this week.My dogs love it and it is very affordable

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  • Cry300

    I just started feeding my dog this and its Great food he eats it all up he seems much more energetic and hes getting some nice muscle tone.

  • Jgreen205

    Does anyone know digestability percentage for the Grain- Free All Stages??

  • melissa

    Antonio here feeds this and has reported only good. I would give it a try, but can’t get in NY. I could probably order online and have shipped, but I refuse to ship foods as I prefer to have a local return “center” in case there is something wrong. I am a little weird like that -I do not want “short dated food” nor will I accept torn packages due to the risk of contaminant.

  • Dave’s Hounds

    looks like a good food

  • Jan_Mom2Cavs

    This food looks good, wish I could get it here in Ohio! And I do agree with you about companies sacrificing quality for money and using their marketing to “lure” in the innocent, naive shopper.

  • Animalatlanta

     I have been selling dog food for 23 years now and think it is wonderful how the public has educated themselves and made the decision to reward companies who continue to invent and improve the current state of dog foods available. I watched helplessly as Science Diet, Iams, Nutro, Blackwood and many others “sold out” and the new owners were only interested in maximizing ROI (return on investment). …This causes companies to re-evaluate their products not to make them better but to make them produce more money with smaller costs. At some point the emphasis goes toward marketing and poor quality ingredients because hype often outsells quality. I consider VICTOR to be one of the best today.ANIMAL ATLANTA animalatlanta.com6449 BELLS FERRY ROAD WOODSTOCK GEORGIA 30189 770-591-0007

  • Shawna

    Beagleman,

    Thought you might find this one interesting too.

    “In this study, an increased value of glutamate or aspartate was found in the CSF of some epileptic dogs. Therefore, excitotoxic neurotransmitters, such as glutamate and aspartate, may be a contributing factor for the pathogenesis of the acute brain damage observed in our epileptic dogs.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC226980/

  • Shawna

    PS — problem with excitotoixins — damage is not always clear right away or even associated with excitotoxins. Seizures as an example is listed as a side effect of the damage done in one of the above studies. Alzheimers is one listed for humans and doesn’t show up for years after the damage begins..

  • Shawna

    Hey Beagleman,

    We’ve been discussing this on another thread as well so I’m kinda on a role… ;)

    Here’s several — the testing was done on dogs and brain injury was the outcome. :(

    “These results represent the first direct evidence of a role for glutamate excitotoxicity in the development of hypothermic circulatory arrest-induced brain injury and suggest that selective glutamate receptor antagonists may have a neuroprotective capacity in prolonged periods of hypothermic circulatory arrest.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8127107

    my google criteria was “canine glutamate excitotoxicity”.

    This one doesn’t display the data but they are testing “retinal vulnerability”

    “Retinal vulnerability to glutamate excitotoxicity in canine glaucoma” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9836292

    “Excessive synaptic accumulation of glutamate can cause neuronal overactivation, precipitating a cascade of cellular events that lead ultimately to cell death, a phenomenon termed glutamate excitotoxicity” http://jtcs.ctsnetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/107/3/776

  • Beagleman

    Thank you Shawna. I did realize that we were limiting the discussion to the concentrated form. I did find alfalfa nutrient concentrate listed in some supplements for raw feeders and performance dogs. I talked with a friend who does lure coursing that uses one of the one products I saw it in and he’s used it on 12-15 dogs for as he puts it, “years” with no problem. I am still trying to find more information and will let you know what I am able to turn up.

  • Shawna

    Beagleman,

    Just to clarify — “alfalfa” and “alfalfa meal” are okay.. Its specifically the “alfalfa nutrient concentrate” that concerns me. I feed my dogs (in rotation) Honest Kitchen Preference which has alfalfa as an ingredient.

    Unfortunately I don’t have anything that identifies the risks of free glutamic and asparatic acids in dogs.. It was hard enough to find the data for humans (and one regarding horses). These products are used in so many foods — they trick the brain into thinking the food tastes better then it does. That is not always the reason used btw.. Because they are used in so many products I imagine it would be a nightmare for industry to start eliminating. What they have done however is to find other sources — example, you rarely see “MSG” on the label any longer. Instead they now use “hidden sources” and can label their product as MSG free but still have the bad parts of MSG in the food.

    Anyhoo, here are links to the research material I posted here on DFA regarding the diseases linked to MSG and other excitotoxins. http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/purina-veterinary-diets-ha/comment-page-4/#comment-35091 and http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/purina-veterinary-diets-ha/#comment-35158

    This website gives a list of the hidden and other possible sources of free glutamic and asparatic acid. http://www.truthinlabeling.org/hiddensources.html

  • Beagleman

    Shawna- Thanks for pointing this possible risk out. Not even my holistic DVM knew much about excitotoxins and alfalfa, and he regularly uses alfalfa with wonderful results. I do realize that concentrated forms of anything increase both the positive and negative elements at the same time. Excitotoxins were something that I had only heard of a time or two before and never with alfalfa. I’ve not been able to find much information about them in canines. Do you have any clues on where to find more information. Thanks.

  • melissa

    Michelle-

    I have found it online for as little as $39 a bag-just can’t remember where, lol, and do not know what the shipping would add on top of that-

    They told me they are working to widen their distribution, so hoping they make it to NY or at least within driving distance

  • Antonio

    Michelle,

    I think it depends on which formula you get. But currently pending the formulation I’ve been paying between $43.99-$46.99 here in my area. But I’ve saw prices range a little lower in some areas and a little higher in some areas when having some online discussions about the pricing. I guess it depends on the distributor in the area and how much he’s charging the dealers.

  • Michelle

    Hi Antonio :) Can you please tell me how much Victor’s grain free costs, and for what size bag? Thanks. :)

  • Michelle

    Beagleman, I would like to apologize to you, for calling you the a word. I am sorry :) Also, I shouldn’t have let myself become upset, because reading one post of mine doesn’t give you enough information about me to quantify my intelligence. :)

  • Gordon

    Beagleman – I understand where your posts are coming from and agree that I too, do not totally agree with the Great Dane Lady. I also understand that none of us is perfect and we all have a strengths and weaknesses. If you say you’re much older than Michelle, then you should truly be wise enough to use better diplomacy in your innuendo of your judgement toward Michelle’s slight pointed out error(s).

    Remember that one should try and calm the other or maintain civility when correcting someone and not infer someone else as “stupid” as I too felt the that same impression or innuendo inferred, when reading that post.

    Just suggesting…that’s all. Be nice. Michelle’s just a cheeky bugger. She can’t help it. :P Kidding

  • Shawna

    Beagleman,

    You wrote “It’s way to far down the list to be considered a “protein source,” in my opinion”. Not trying to dissuade you from your decision but did want to clarify my “protein source” comment if you will allow…

    Its not actually a “protein” source but rather a source of the amino acids that make up protein. This is not in and of itself bad however there are two amino acids (glutamic and aspartatic) which can be excitotoxic (kill cells in the body) when consumed in this manner.. Because there is a cumulative effect they can, over time, start to build up in the body and this is when symptoms start to appear.. This is also why small amounts can be problematic. MSG and other excitotoxic additives are usually further down on the human products lists too but still cause problems.

    I developed symptoms at 12 years old — “eye migraines”. I would COMPLETELY lose my vision in both eyes for 30 seconds to several minutes. I was seen by multiple doctors and neurologists and never diagnosed. In my early 30′s I had a scary episode (brain wise) and was sent to a neurologist who suggested MRI. The MRI found “brain lessions” (aka brain cell death). LONG story short — the small amounts of MSG etc in human foods was causing me lots of problems (brain damage was not my only symptom). When I eliminated as much of the excitotoxins my symptoms ceased — including the blackouts.

    Again, not trying to get you to switch foods but did want to mention that even small amounts can be disasterous. Neurosurgeon Dr. Russell Blaylock wrote a book on these to acids called “Excitotoxins: The Taste that Kills”

  • Michelle

    Hi Mike, Sorry about the offensive word. But when someone is rude to me and basically calls me stupid, I tend to get aggravated. Not everyone is going to agree, and having a chance to read different points of view can be productive and educational, but not when someone gets abusive and calls me stupid, what does that accomplish? Nothing. BTW you forgot to remove the word from JBKitley’s post.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    Hi JBKitley… These words have now been edited out of the 3 comments you’re referring to. Sorry I didn’t catch these posts sooner.

  • melissa

    JBKITLEY-

    While I will agree that language such as that is inappropriate, its up to you to control your child’s online activities. Perhaps you should preview links and sites BEFORE she is randomly clicking on them?? Oh, and putting a cute little @ in the middle of the word does not do anything to change the word. Someone else’s 11 yr old will still know what the word is- You are just as guilty of inappropriate posting if that is the standard one should follow-

  • JBKitley

    Anybody who uses the term as@hole, in a public forum should be banned. My 11 year old found this site as part of a research project for her 4-H project.

  • Mike P

    My two cents worth…It seems like overeating poor quality food and stress seem to be a factor in dogs getting bloat. I hate when someone jumps on a person who spells a word wrong. Beagleman , you have been doing this for more years than Michelle has been alive ? It might be you are just an old [expletive deleted by the editor]. Just sayin…

  • Beagleman

    You are the one got nasty with the word [expletive deleted by the editor] in your post. Your education level and manners make me be no longer be interested in any of your comments. Go on writing them if you wish but I am not going to read or respond to them.

  • Michelle

    Beagleman, well now we are even, because I find you offensive. :) Since you pointed it out when I spelled a word wrong…. here are your mistakes, in your last post. You used but instead of put. And not sure what you meant by: “People involved in scientific study are my enlarge dedicate their whole lives to it and are paid very little”. Did you mean by and large??? See you accuse me of being stupid….. you are no rocket scientist either!

  • Beagleman

    I don’t mean to be rude. I feel you set the tone of this dialogue when you but the word study in quotes in the above comment. I found that offensive- you might just as well have termed it a so called study. People involved in scientific research are my enlarge dedicate their whole lives to it and are paid very little.

  • Michelle

    Beagleman, no need to be rude. :( I guess it doesn’t take that much intelligence ( for you ) to be an [expletive deleted by the editor]. :)

  • Beagleman

    Thank you for your concern Michelle. I’ve been doing that for more years than you have probably been alive. BTW, the university is Purdue, not “Perdue.” Your understanding of citric acid and vitamin C speaks very loudly about the mind backing your opinions.

  • Michelle

    Beagleman, In regards to keeping a dog healthy, a good meat based diet along with digestive enzymes and probiotics will go a long way. In the case of the Perdue study, I believe that it is seriously flawed, and take it with a grain of salt. I do not believe that it has any merit.

  • Beagleman

    @Shawna- Thanks for pointing out the alfalfa nutrient concenrate content’s possible risk. I did a google advanced search on it with your concerns. After reading I am comfortable with it being in my dog food. It’s way to far down the list to be considered a “protein source,” in my opinion. To me the bottom line is that is has some negatives but has several positives just like everything else you can put in your or your dog’s mouth. Unfortunately we are on earth and nothing is perfect.

    @Michelle- To begin- citric acid is NOT vitamin C. Vitamin C is ascorbic acid. Citric acid similar chemically but not the same thing. It is a chemical preservative- all of which are a necessary evil IMO. Anyone with a brain would prefer citric acid to BHA, Ethoxoquin, etc… You have to be careful with acids when canines are concerned. If you feel your dog can benefit from vitamin c as I do, you have to use calcium or sodium ascorbate which are buffered forms. I don’t know if vitamin c as ascorbic acid could cause a dog to bloat because I know that it will burn their tummies and have never tried it.

    The Purdue study is not the last word on bloat and is far from it. It’s a very small step forward. The study was NOT published as the end of a problem. I wish that I lived in a world where research could solve all of the maladies in the world quicker and maladies went away easily. Purdue’s study nor I say that if fat is number 3 or 4 on a food composition that a dog can not bloat- I do agree with you that IF (which it is NOT) that was stated that it would be “idiotic.”

    Scientist see this study as a part of the puzzle that put the questions on the table to be figured out. Is it perfect, NO- it is performed by humans. Is it useless or as you call it “ridiculous” no.

    I don’t take this study as the gospel truth because I have read it, and know that it is only part of an ongoing battle against a horrible killer. Bloat is the most painful death I’ve ever witnessed in my lifetime of experience with dogs.

    If you are going to refute any scientific progress, you have to get the education, find the money, get the data, and prove it. It happens all the time.

  • Michelle

    Beagleman, If you want to believe the Purdue “study” that’s up to you. I personally think that it is ridiculous. Why would a raised feeding dish cause bloat? Why would an ingredient list that includes fat in the first 3 ingredients cause bloat? Dogs are meant to eat meat, fat, and bone. They have no dietary need for grains or carbs. So why would fat cause bloat? It doesn’t make sense. So you’re telling me that as long as fat is number 4 instead of 3 a dog will not bloat? That is idiotic. Correct me if I am wrong, but, isn’t citric acid vitamin C ? Why would vitamin C cause a dog to bloat? I don’t think that the Perdue “study” has any merit. If you want to believe everything that they say is gospel….. then be my guest.

  • Shawna

    I use alfalfa (in rotation) for my raw fed dogs too..

    However, this product has “alfalfa meal” AND, as you noted, “alfalfa nutrient concentrate”. Quick google search and this is apparently a protein source (many foods that are listed as isolates or concentrates are protein sources). Problem with this is that they are concentrated sources of free glutamic acid (as in MSG) and free asparatic acid. These are excitotoxins and can cause (in humans) brain damage, MS plus.. Anything “hydrolyzed” (or autolyzed) is in the same category. Yeast culture and extract are also sources..

    Free glutamic and asparatic acid can supposedly cause bloating in humans but I haven’t seen any reliable data linking it to canine bloat??

  • Beagleman

    I have used alfalfa as a supplement in my dogs with wonderful results. My dogs think alfalfa pellets are cookies. I think it has some visible benefits in my dogs. Google it, and I am sure you will feel comfortable with it.

  • Beagleman

    @Michelle- It should be noted that Linda Arndt (GreatDaneLady) is contradicting a University Study in the article you provided a link to. She’s an art professor, and not even that active of a dog breeder and is nobody to be questioning an article published by a Vet School. She does make some good points in some of articles on her site (most of which is common knowedge), but she’s also always plugging her friend’s products. Her writing usually presents her opinions as facts. There are plenty of writers that are active breeders or DVMs out there where you can find lots of wonderful information.

  • Michelle

    Hi Suzy, If you have time, please read this article on dog food ingredients and bloat. http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/on_my_soap_box_purdue_bloat_study.htm

  • Suzy

    I read that dog foods containing citric acid as a preservative can cause bloat in dogs. Also, brewers yeast and alfafa. I am considering switching over to Victor dog food as it has such positive comments posted. However, I am concerned because Victor ingredients have Citric Acid listed, also Alfalfa Nutrient Concentrate, and Yeast Extract, Yeast Culture and Hydrolyzed Yeast listed. Are these ingredients safe? I appreciate any guidance you may give.

  • Michelle

    Hey Antonio, Yeah the cal per cup are pretty low on TOTW. That could have been one reason he couldn’t hold weight. And who knows what could have been disagreeing with him and causing the diarrhea. I miss Jess too. Remember he used to always be on dog food chat? He got banned from the forums on there, and he was sooo pissed! He said that he would never post again. And that was the last time I heard from him. His dog Tony 3 toes is so cute. If he did post on here, he would probably get banned here too. Remember how jacked up he used to get at people? lol

  • Antonio

    Thanks Michi :) , yup it was TOTW that I tried, and honestly at the time I hate that it didn’t work b/c it was so readily available and economically priced. But I tried a few others as well with mixed results, it seemed that the lack of russet potatoes have been the biggest help. Hey Michelle, what happen to Jess the guy that had the nice looking GSD, his input (although sometimes harsh), would be much needed and welcome here on DFA at times.

  • Michelle

    Antonio, yeah I do remember that now. I don’t remember which grain free you tried at the time. TOTW? AAAAWWWW, Ziggy, that’s so cute.

  • Antonio

    LOL@Michelle, yes you did try and tell me that before, but remember the problem I was having before was my Dobie couldn’t hold weight and had constant diarrhea on the grain free products at the time, I wonder if it was due to potatoes in the other brands I tried in the past. His name is Ziggy btw.

  • Gordon

    I don’t know if you ever had a chance to have a look through some of my dog pics re feeding raw meaty bones, that I had aired a couple of times here in the past. But if not, Antonio, you can check them out here http://gordonscorner.letterboxes.org/doggy_techniques/ at your leisure.

  • Gordon

    Oh yeah Antonio. They are extremely natural and well capable vermin hunters. Mine would love the opportunity, but I don’t get much chance to get out in the country to allow them. But they do improvise when I allow them to chase suburban cats, lol. They relish the chance.

  • Michelle

    Antonio, what up? Remember when I used to try and tell you that grain free was better? And you used to argue and want scientific proof? LOL. btw, your boy looks great! Whats his name again?

  • Antonio

    Gordon, I actually had to wiki search a Tenterfield Terrier I wasn’t aware of it before now. Very nice looking dogs, do you allow yours to hunt small varmints, the breed looks well capable. @ Meagan, I’m not sure what’s happening that your questions wasn’t answered, as I’ve stated before the reps and even the CEO of Victors have responded pretty quick to my inquiries. Here’s a link for their dealer info http://www.victordogfood.com/find-a-dealer/ and their contact number is Toll Free: 888-428-7544
    I just copied this info from the Victor dog food website. Hopefully they will get back w/ you soon enough and answer your inquiries.

  • Meagan

    No they never got back to me.

  • Gordon

    Antonio – No, it is a pic of my Tenterfield Terrier (TT). Though they’re not too dissimilar from a Rat Terrier or the Mini Fox Terrier.

  • Antonio

    Melissa, email those pics of your pack when you have a chance. I’m always a sucker for doggie pics. Mike P send me a pic of that boxer sometime, I actually like Boxer and other bulldog (origin) type breeds very much. Richard your right about the world of Grain free, I guess the thing that I like best is the relative ease of muscle maintenance and building. Normally this process take a lot of time and work, but it’s been a lot easier on the grain free. I’ll have to email you a pic of my Dobie as well Richard.

  • http://brotherscomplete.com Richard Darlington

    Antonio

    Welcome to the world of grain free. It’s the only place for your Dobie to be.

    I’ve seen pictures of Mike P’s Boxer Girl and she is quite a beautiful specimen.

  • Mike P ( science practitioner )

    Antonio I Have to say I was shocked to see my female Boxer weigh in at 70 lbs. But being on grain free foods and lots of exercise it is truley muscle mass. She has a very defined build , tummy tucked and loads of energy. After longer workouts on my days off off work I give her eggs and sardines, chicken about 30 minutes after her morning workout and a small grain free kibble for dinner. It’s working really well.

  • melissa

    Antonio-

    Your boy looks great! Saw the pix you sent today and I have to say, still jealous that Victors is not in good old NY! I will have to get photos of my crew.

  • Antonio

    Gordon, I’m in agreement with you about. I mean I think I’ve stated plenty of times in the past I’m of the belief that something must be proven before I can buy into the philosophy. So after giving Grain Free another try with my Doberman I’m really thrilled that it’s working this time around. And even more thrilled that it’s working marvelously. Gordon is the dog on your gravatar a Rat Terrier???

  • Gordon

    dogs’ I mean, and not dogs’s.

  • Gordon

    Antonio – That’s good to read. I’m not surprised at your dogs’ even more positive results you describe on the grain free. That means less useless carbs and more protein which would have contributed to even better muscle mass/development, and is why your dogs’ muscle appears even more defined. Both my dogs’s shape and muscle definition are incredibly immaculate for their breeds. But then, I have them on really high protein levels when I consider all their current feeding regime and do the nutrient and energy sums.

  • Antonio

    It’s been awhile since I posted, but I figured I’d chime in and give my usual product update. I switched to Victors dog food (Original lines) some time back earlier this year and had really good results, in the past 2 months I’ve switched my dog over to their Grain Free products and I’m honestly blown away at my 3 year old Dobies physical change since he’s started eating the Grain Free Victors product. His weight is maintained about the same 77-80lbs, but his physical appearance has changed dramatically, he appears physically much larger with more defined muscle. So needless to say i’m very much sold on the quality of this product and I hope that the people over at MidWestern pet products continue to make this good dog feed.

  • Antonio

    Dobies do take longer to fill out than I would have expected. My boy was actually about 23mths before he started to gain the sleek muscular look. And I can remember same as Melissa times of feeding 6 + cups a day just to achieve weight maintenance.

  • melissa

    Gordon-

    You have not truly lived a life of frustration until you have owned a dobie that can polish off 6c of food a day, run for hours on end, and still look like he/she has not been properly fed for a period of time.Thankfully, MOST fill out around 18-24mths..some take a bit longer like my one girl. She is now 3.

  • Antonio

    Deb,

    The only formula i’m aware of that doesn’t contain pork is the Chicken and Lamb formula that Victors produce. It’s not a grain free formula, but the guality of ingredients are still very good.

  • Debbie Yelvington

    Hello! I find that Pork products tend to cause skin issues with alot of the dogs I have dealt with over the years… Remove pork from the diet and the dogs itching and skin rashes clear up… I am curious as to why Victor uses pork in their foods? I am thinking I would be afraid to use it… Are there any Victor products without pork? Thank you Deb

  • Gordon

    Is that so, Antonio? I didn’t know that. There you go. Learn something everyday.

  • Antonio

    You absolutely right, Dobies have a metabolism that is unmatched by most other breeds.

  • melissa

    That is the same that I am feeding here of the Acana-boy these dobers burn through the calories!

  • Antonio

    Melissa,

    I’m currently feeding 3.5 – 4 cups daily pending the kind of exercise week I have going on w/ my Dobie. I actually just come inside from playing w/ the flirt pole with him, so I’ll feed up here in a bit. I was thinking about doing a little run w/ the bike with him, but I don’t really feel like it today, so hopefully I’ll get him out early tomorrow morning before the sun comes up. And Mike P, you and I agree 120%, about the exercise, it really doesn’t matter what your feeding a dog, if its not getting adequate time outdoors and exercise then you won’t acheive the optimum health results you could by including daily exercise, this same philosphy holds true for people as well.

  • melissa

    Antonio, how much are you feeding your dobie?

  • Mike P

    Antonio I had to adjust how much I fed . She gained 5 lbs when I was feeding 2 3/4 ‘s cup. Now I feed 2 cups and she is doing great. Awesome tummy tuck and very pronounced muscle everywhere. I can’t believe 2 cups does it ! You would think a 70lb dog would eat more than that?? We go out no matter how hot or cold and I believe that is so important . Usually when a dog gains lbs it;s because the owner doesn’t want to go out in the extreme weather, not the dog. I’m with you Antonio on how important conditioning is for the dog. You can feed the best food ever but conditioning is at least as important.

  • Antonio

    Mike P-

    So far the energy levels have remained stable which was a major concern for me. I didn’t want a decrease in energy, but even when the temp was in the lower 100′s I was able to take my Dobie out and didn’t worry about him over heating too quickly, and this was done after the transition to GF was completed. So far i’m very impressed with the results, my dog’s tummy has kept a nice tuck as well. I’m not sure if the science behind GF kibble has improved since I tried it years ago, but it does seem that the exclusion of white potatoes this time around has been a improvement to my Dobie’s tolerance of GF.

  • melissa

    Mike P-

    I think grain free is the way to go, if the dog tolerates it. I have a rescue here that had his skin literally peeling away and oozing when we rescued him, before he went GF. Now his coat has started to become “handsome” again, he has put on weight, and his stools have improved. His chronic ear infections seem to have cleared(finally) as well. He was the first to be GF in the house on a regular basis, and now most are.

  • Gordon

    Mike P – Wow, I find that peculiar that your dog’s stools get looser after RMB’s than that over eating kibble. Usually the more natural the food, the smaller and firmer the dog’s stool should be. That’s certainly the case with my dogs. But as Mike Sagman says, “…..due to each dog’s biological uniqueness…..” may apply in your dogs’ case.

    But you hit the nail with a mallet re your dog’s noted behavioural changes after being on grain free foods for a while now. The dog trainer, Chris, I sometimes refer to, who’s had years of extensive experience directly linking the dog’s diet to what their behaviour is like. What you said Mike P, relating to your dog’s improved behaviour and calmer demeanour, exactly correlates with what Chris often talks about! My dog’s beahvioural changes are not that noticeable on grain free other than that they are health-wise a whole lot more vibrant and happier. Not that noticeable re my dog’s behaviour energy wise, because they are class 2 (terriers) and are naturally, incredibly energetic breeds of dogs who can go on forever as if they are run by Duracell or Eveready batteries, lol. By the way, off topic temporarily, batteries you buy to put in your electronic devices are not technically, batteries. They are technically, cells. Batteries are made of a series of cells. A cell of 1.5V dc in series with another and so on add on in their voltage (Potential Difference) value. Sorry, that’s just the electrical engineer in me getting carried away.

    Back to topic, and with regard to the recent talk of some saying DFA and Co. should become the pet food industry whistle blowers etc, I found a little corny and unlikely. But hey anything’s possible. Anyway, my point being that it’s feedback like yours Mike P, and thousands of others across many forums and other mediums with similar experiences, which are never officially recorded as part of scientific evidence, and thus brushed off as nothing more than anecdotal same, never seeing the light of day in scientific peer reviewed journals because of the very fact that this would be a very threat to the foundations of the financially, all mighty and powerful mainstream pet food industry conglomerates and their mainstream biased pet food scientific studies. What a tragedy.

    This is also why such industry and affiliate same find high carb concentrations favouring greyhounds in racing, a winning formula for the greyhounds success in that carb induced hyperactive behaviour. A sad indictment reflecting just how greyhound rearing is nothing more than based on intentions on financial gain and not the greyhounds’ health.

  • Mike P

    Melissa my dog is very weird and that hasn’t changed. I firmly believe that she is better behaved and not quite as hyper. Boxers remain puppies longer than other breeds I have read. Maybe it’s not the food and she is just growing up :( . I have read about feeding high carb foods and dogs reacting to sugar spikes or something like that . I only went to grain free because our last boxers suffered awfull allergies and thought GF was the way to go.

  • melissa

    Mike P-

    LOL… its a figure of your imagination and this website doesn’t exist : )

    My crew has gone grain free for about 8 weeks now and no weird behavior-well, no NEW weird behavior I wish Victor was available in NY, but its not,sigh, as I would gladly give that a whirl.

    Glad to hear that all is going well Antonio!

  • Mike P

    Hi Antonio. Good to hear about the results from your food change. My Boxers stool is always firm and gets loose only after a RMB or Bully stick,compressed rawhide. Never runny,just more like softer I guess. I really like it when I clean poop in the yard. She has tons of energy when needed, but since on grain free she isn’t as hyper. She will play and walk forever if I let her. Keep me posted on any behavior changes so I don’t think I’m imagining things…

  • Gordon

    Well Antonio, that means no loose stools. Sounds like a win win all round. I would then definitely encourage you to stick with Victors grain free. Avoid grains in dog foods at all cost for the long term health and the health of your dogs’ digestive tracts. So that’s great news.

  • Antonio

    Gordon,

    I was actually expecting some loose stools, but to my surprise, my Doberman (sensitive stomach), didn’t have any problems with the transition. I did very slow transition (10 days), and the rest has went well to this point. I even switched my small dog (chinese pug) over to the same food and figured I’d give it a try for convenience of buying the same food instead of buying multiple brands and he’s taken to it very well also. Right now the Victors Brand is a staple in my house.

  • Gordon

    That’s good news, Antonio. Your Dobermans’ digestive tracts will be the better for it, as well. Speaking of which, how are their stools? Are they a little more loose than before? Because that’s a side effect of grain free kibble even when transitioning properly, but over time, like say 3 to 6 months, most stools appear firmer again.

  • Antonio

    Transition to the GF line of Victors has been completed and my dog(s) are doing really good so far. Now that the transition has been completed for over a week and a half I’ll use the coming months as a measuring stick for the grain free, but so far performance and energy has remained stable, the muscle maintenance, repair , and growth have improved. My Dobie has especially maintained and built muscle much more effeciently, and it doesn’t take as much work to get the nice results.

  • Antonio

    LOL absolutely correct. I spent my childhood and early adulthood playing sports, so I did learn a little about about nutrition from that experience and also I took a few nutritions courses along the way. My philosophy on protein for myself is 1g per lb of ideal body weight, the biggest issue is understanding our ideal weight and making sure we eat accordingly to that model. With my dog I actually feed him to ideal protein for maintenance and normally I do 15-20% above for muscle building.

  • Gordon

    Yeah, in a way that’s true Antonio. Given that what would be the point in muscle development if the muscle is not expending any energy. Kind of would defeat the purpose in both us and dogs.

  • Antonio

    Gordon,

    I’m not sure if Victors got back to Meagan or not. But I’m certain they’ve answered my emails and calls when placed. Pork meal in dog food use to be pretty rare, but I’ve noticed many brands are now starting to cap in on it’s nutrition for K9′s. Your right about the high protein, the only case I would have to worry about high protein would be if my dog was a couch potato, then I don’t think it would serve much use same as people.

  • Gordon

    Oh yeah. I recall we’re were wondering why pork was a rare addition to dog food meat ingredient in many brands. In addition to whatever I suggested this may due to, I read that Dr. Billinghurst states that “pork has bad press, otherwise it is an excellent meat source for dog food”. Speaking of which, I’ve bought my next box of patties to be the pork flavour, as my dogs are almost finished with the rabbit formula.

  • Gordon

    That’s good to hear Antonio. Higher protein is also awesome for muscle development just as it is for us humans.

    I’m curious to know whether Victors got back to Meagan’s inquiry, given that you and Mike have praised that their customer service is great?

  • Antonio

    Update!!!

    I’ve been slowly transitioning my Dog(s) over to the GF Victors formula, and so far everything has gone very well, energy still great, coat, and stools are good also. The biggest difference I’ve notice is that my dog(s) “most noticeably my Doberman”, seem to be maintaining and building new muscle alot easier. I’ll continue to evaluate and continue to post how the process goes as I continue to use the GF formula(s) with some longevity.

  • DAVID NUXOLL

    Does any one know the calories per cup for these 3 GF formulas? I don’t see it on the website

  • Meagan

    No problem Antonio, I forgot I had asked that question. :) Still have not heard from Scott and I just checked my “sent” email, that is the correct address I used. Maybe he is on vacation.?? That is a great price in my opinion.

  • Antonio

    Meagan,

    Sorry been offline for a few days, weird that you didn’t get a reply back from Scott Glover yet, he’s generally very responsive of emails, make sure your emailing scott@midamericapetfood.com this is the email address I’ve used many times and he’s responded very quickly. Currently I pay between $22-$28 depending on which formula I use.

  • Meagan

    Gordon- have not had a reply as of yet. I emailed him on the 15th.

  • http://www.drianbillinghurst.com Gordon

    Have you gotten a reply yet from Mid American (Victor’s) yet Meagan? I know it’s still the weekend so probably not, but according to this Scott’s reputation, he apparently gets back to inquirers quickly. I was going to inquire about getting samples sent to me in Oz but it’s a mine field of red tape to have even samples of food shipped into Australia. I’d need to know firstly at what temperature Victor’s kibbles are cooked at.

  • Meagan

    I am still waiting for a reply from Scott. Antonio- If you don’t mind me asking, how much do you pay for a bag of victors? and how big of a bag is it? Even though I know your not feeding the grain free yet i’m guessing its around the same price.

  • Antonio

    I’ve been impressed w/ Victor’s as well, very good dog kibble, and great customer service. I’ve been trying to arrange time to record a training video with my Doberman doing some routines, runs, and jumps to give people a idea of his energy level. I think my dog has good stamina and ability largely b/c of genetics and exercise, but I don’t doubt his diet has also helped him maintain that consistency over time. So I would say if the food is available in your area give it a try.

  • http://www.drianbillinghurst.com Gordon

    Actually, no one get me wrong, Victor’s Ultra Pro is still a great kibble at 22% DM carbs and is on par with Artemis Maximal in all the 3 main nutrient percentages, and with additional meat protein sources than the latter. Sometimes that’s a good thing, and sometimes that’s not so good for dogs more prone to specific or multiple protein allergies.

    I’m still personally, very impressed with Victor dog food kibble!

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    Hi Meagan… Oops. Copied the wrong data. Should be OK, now. Thanks for the tip.

  • http://www.drianbillinghurst.com Gordon

    Because one can’t subtract a further 9% of reported moisture because it has already been considered in the calculation. Hmmm, I’m sure I’m missing something here, or Victor’s ash content is actually higher than 8%.

  • http://www.drianbillinghurst.com Gordon

    That would mean that carbs calculate to be at 22% DM

    Based on (42/91) + (22/91) = 46% protein + 24% fat
    = 70% protein and fat
    + 8% ash/minerals (consider Linoleic and Linolenic acids as part of the ash component)
    = 78% protein, fat and ash

    Now, 100% – 78% = 22% carbohydrates which would include the advertised 2.96% DM fibre as fibre is a carb.

    So what they claim can’t be right? The Ultra Pro can’t be less than 15% carbs, unless I’m missing something?

  • Meagan

    Thanks Mike looking forward to the directory!

  • Meagan

    Sorry 9% moisture.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    Hi Meagan… These days, many online pet food retailers offer great deals. Some offer 15% off the entire order while others offer free shipping (in both cases, you must be on “Autoship”). You may want to compare prices and shipping deals.

    When we launch our DFA directory on July 5, it should be easier for you to find some (but of course, not all) products much closer to you. Some may even offer store coupons. However, initially, I’d imagine very few retail stores will be listed. So it could take time for our database to build.

  • Meagan

    Mike- That does not compare to the website? I see 42% protein, 22% fat, 2.7% fiber and 9$ moisture.

  • Antonio

    GF Ultra Professional:

    GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
    Crude Protein Min 42.0 % Selenium Min 0.4 mg/kg
    Crude Fat Min 22.0 % Vitamin E Min 250 IU/kg
    Crude Fiber Max 2.7 % *Linoleic Acid (OMEGA 6) Min 2.4 %
    Moisture Max 9.0% *Linolenic Acid (OMEGA 3) Min 0.4 %
    Zinc Min 150 mg/kg

    I’ll let you guys do the math on this, as I’m clueless

  • Antonio

    GF Ultra Professional Formula

    Victor GF Ultra Pro 42 closely represents the ancestral high protein / low carbohydrate diets of dogs. This food contains less than 15% total carbohydrates and is 100% Grain, Gluten and GMO Free! The 42% Crude Protein comes from a combination of Poultry, Meat and Fish sources providing a balanced level of amino acids.

    I copy/paste that directly from the website, I didn’t read it close enough the 1st time, it actually says, the food contains less than 15% total carbohydrates, so it appears Meagan that your calculation might be right. I chat w/ Scott Glover earlier and this product should be available in the coming weeks, I will give it a try myself and hopefully will have great results. Time will tell.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    Victor Grain Free Ultra Pro is posted on their website…

    Crude Protein (min) = 42.0 %
    Crude Fat (min) = 22.0 %
    Crude Fiber (max) = 2.7 %
    Moisture (max) = 9.0%
    Linoleic Acid (omega 6, min) = 2.4 %
    Linolenic Acid (omega 3, min) = 0.4 %

    Please note this is “as fed” and should be converted to dry matter basis in order to compare it fairly with other dog foods.

  • http://www.drianbillinghurst.com Gordon

    What a bummer huh, lol. That would be a fair hike just to buy dog food. Looks like you’re going to have to rely on shipping, one way or another.

  • Meagan

    I put my zip in and clicked up to 200 miles, it brought up only 1 dealer and that is 168 miles away in the next state! LOL

  • http://www.drianbillinghurst.com Gordon

    Scott might offer you a formula to you to ship directly with out a ‘middle man’, or otherwise advise you of an on line retailer that can ship his products to you.

    It seems Scott has 2 websites running about his Victor foods. Try this one Meagan. This will take you to the “Find a Dealer” page. http://www.victordogfood.com/find-a-dealer/

  • Meagan

    Well its a little strange, becasue when I google Victor dog food and click on shopping, it doesn’t bring any formulas up. Usually you can at least find a dog food somewhere for sale by googling. Oh well, I will just wait on Scott’s response. Tax does manage to get ya. Luckily amazon has a Free Super Shippers Saving. Order of $25 or more and shipping is free. So if I have something say about $15 I will just add a box or bag of treats to get it to $25. Usually Wellness, Canidae, Blue Buffalo.

  • http://www.drianbillinghurst.com Gordon

    Oh I’m pretty sure Meagan, that you’ll have no problem getting it shipped to you, if there’s no retailers selling it in your area. There’s no shipping restrictions with in a country, unless the US places such from state to state (That I wouldn’t know, but I do hear there’s taxes involved) The problem is mainly when shipping food items from one country to another.

  • Meagan

    I used 9% moisture that is what I saw on the website and 8% ash. :) I emailed the president Scott as well, seeing if I can get it in my area.

  • http://www.drianbillinghurst.com Gordon

    So Meagan, you included the 9 or 10% moisture content and 8% ash content? I ask because the Ultro Pro hasn’t been posted here yet to get any figures. I’ll visit the Victor website to check out the Ultra Pro if it’s already publicised there?

  • Meagan

    Gordon-I figured thirteen percent carbs on a dry matter basis

  • http://www.drianbillinghurst.com Gordon

    Artemis Maximal, is 47% protein (Very high – higher than Orijen), and kibble-wise very below average carbs at 21%) It’s one of those truly mimicking ancestral and evolutionary canine kibble diet equivalents to raw, that’s available. It’s simplified with a single meat protein source + added beneficial protein from potatoes, and which in comparison with this Victor formula, just has potatoes as the kibble binder, unless I stand corrected, instead of both sweet potatoes and peas in this Victor formula, for it’s starchy kibble binding.

    This doesn’t dissuade me from wanting my dogs to try Victor dog food mixed with Artemis when I alternate with raw, especially reading the above recent comments about the Ultra Pro coming out with what 15% carbs in kibble? Wow, is that based on Dry Matter. If so, that’s even 6% lower than Artemis Maximal in the carb department. I’ll be contacting this Scott fellow soon, once I review the Aussie Customs requirement again, to make sure there’s a possibility that I could get some samples imported down under.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    Hi Antonio… We compute carbs based upon the numbers posted by the company. All of them must total very close to 100% (protein + fat + carbs + ash + water + micronitrients = 100). Always remember, Guaranteed Analysis is what the company “guarantees” as the minimum for each nutrient. So, the actual protein and fat numbers can be notably higher… which, in turn, automatically makes the real carbs lower than what we report.

    In any case, be sure to look at the label (I use each company’s website) and then check out the math. You should be able to observe the reason for the disparity. Hope this helps.

  • Meagan

    100%-46%-24%-9%-8%=13% on a dry matter basis.

  • Meagan

    Well it would actually be 19% carbs because they report moisture content as 9% and not 10%.

  • Meagan

    100%-42%-22%-10%-8%=18% carbs. As fed basis.

  • Antonio

    I’m not sure how carbs are actually calculated, but the packaging on the GF Ultra Professional says 15% carborhydrates. I’ve never done carb counting for myself, never had a real need too I guess I been fortunate. Honestly when I eat some carbs, my evening running, and workouts seem to go alot smoother. My chinese pug has eaten grain free for a couple years w/o any incident, it’s just the same didn’t hold true for my Dobie at the time, now that he’s a little older, I’ll try it again and see how it goes..

  • Jonathan

    You know what, though? even these grain-free foods are still 30-40% carbs, so that does not a low carb diet make. Probably less than 10% of my calories come from carbs.

  • Antonio

    Jonathan, u know what’s strange, my pug has eaten grain free for a couple of years now. And strangly if I overfeed him w/ GF he gains weight, in the past my Doberman would get diarrhea when overfeeding grain free. But as I’ve stated many times before, I’ll give most diets a try to see how it work for my dog. I tried raw it didn’t work, but the reason I refuse to try it again is b/c my dog got samonella poisoning from this so I won’t risk that again with him. But the grain free I’ll try again and if it doesn’t work no big deal I have something I can fall back on.

  • Jonathan

    I don’t know the specifics of duration. I think the “dramatic” part for me has ended. I’ve been at 26 pounds lost for a week now. Guess I have to start exercising! lol.

  • Antonio

    Hmm, did Ed give a timeframe? I’m assuming I should give it at least about 6 weeks? I figure trying it this time of year isn’t that bad since it’s HOT outside being a few pounds lighter isn’t a bad thing once we get outdoors. I still have a 40lb of the original lines to go thru so I got about 3 weeks until I start transitioning.

  • Jonathan

    Hey Antonio, regarding lower carb foods and weight loss, I think it was Ed before that brought up ketosis. If your dog’s bodies are accustom to using food energy from carbs right away, then when switching to lower carbs, they may experience some initial weight loss regardless of transition time. Then, when their bodies settle into using the protein and fat rather than the higher blood sugar inducing grain-based foods, they should go back to normal. I don’t know if that’s right at all, it’s just a thought…

  • sandy

    antonio,

    I’ve just recently took white potato out of my dogs grain free diet and he seems to be doing better. I wonder if some dogs just have reactions to white potato versus sweet potato or tapioca.

  • Antonio

    I email Scott regularly, and surprisingly I generally get a reply within about 24hrs.., I agree w/ you whole heartedly. You know I’ve been very conscientious about trying Grain Free formulas again w/ my Dobie, but I’ve built up a considerable amount of trust in this company, and I figure I’ll give it a try with Victors this time. If the calorie count holds up and my Dobie maintains on it even thru the working seasons, then who knows maybe I’ll jump on the grain free bandwagon, I think I’ve expressed previous problems I’ve had w/ grain free foods w/ the exception of the Pacific Stream from TOTW, the only problem there was my dogs’ weight dropped dramatically. So I’m opportunistic about giving it another go round and we’ll see how it goes. If I have problems I’ll definately come back to the Grain-inclusive lines as they have worked tremendously.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    Hi Antonio… I added the Ultra Pro product to the review yesterday. You may notice the higher protein and fat (meat) content raised the overall average for their grain free product line considerably. This food was already a 5-star product even before they added the Ultra Pro recipe.

    In any case, the new owner, Mid America Pet Food, is owned and operated by Scott Glover. Scott is one of the most conscientious folks I’ve had the pleasure to speak with in this industry. Since he’s taken over, this brand has made real headway in its quality and design.

  • Antonio

    Mike,
    Victor’s launched their GF Ultra Professional formula, for you high meat/ low carb fans, this feed is crazy loaded w/ meat, I was reading the website and it boast a low 15% carbohydrate content in the entire package, which leads me to assume it’s a 85%meat base formula. If that’s the case I may give grain free another try eventually since I’ve had success w/ their general line of products.

  • http://www.drianbillinghurst.com Gordon

    Ahh I see what you mean Mike. That does explain some of the delays. It also explains many of the comments containing no links, appear almost immediately, most of the time.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    Hi Gordon… I remember you mentioning (a few days ago) how some of your comments appear to be delayed in posting on the Advisor website. I noticed this happened again today when your comment was withheld before it appeared.

    To prevent comment spam (a real problem for all blogs), our WordPress software is set to automatically withhold (for approval) any comment containing more than 4 links. Your comment today contained seven.

    Please be assured links and references are always a welcome addition to any comment. They give credibility and context to claims made by any author. However, when there’s an abundance of links in a comment, you should anticipate a delay before it’s posted.

    In any case, I promise to approve any legitimate comment as soon as I return to monitor my WP dashboard. Hope this helps explain the mystery.

  • http://www.drianbillinghurst.com Gordon

    Thanks Mike. http://www.midamericapetfood.com/ shows it as well.

  • http://www.drianbillinghurst.com Gordon

    Ahhh found it under victordogfood.com!

  • http://www.drianbillinghurst.com Gordon

    Thanks Antonio, but I Google hasn’t revealed in my search what their website is. Perhaps I’ll presume it’s victorpetfood.com or victordogfood.com?

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    Hi Gordon… Victor Dog Food is now manufactured by Mid America Pet Food in Mount Pleasant, Texas. I’ve found this company to be unusually responsive to questions.

  • Antonio

    Gordon, if you look on Victor’s website I believe it states the food is manufactured at MidAmerica Pet located in Mt. Pleasant, TX. As for the temperature of cooking, I’m not sure. You’d have to ask the folks over at Victor’s.

  • http://www.drianbillinghurst.com Gordon

    I’d like to know at what temperature this food is cooked at? Because I tell you what, I’d sure like to sample this food for my dogs in Australia. I can’t even find who the licensee of this food is. When I did a Google search, it doesn’t reveal who, but Mike’s DFA site comes up amongst Canidae All life Stages in Google’s first page results. Anyone know, be sure to let me know, as it would be appreciated. I’d like to be able to contact the supplier and see if it is possible to import some samples to Australia un-gamma irradiated. Which is also why I wonder at what temperature the kibble is cooked at.

  • erin c.

    I wish more of the good brands were available locally. We do have LOTS of the garbage dog foods available.

  • erin c.

    Wow! If human food had good stuff like this in it, humans might be healthier. :)

  • http://www.drianbillinghurst.com Gordon

    One theory I have on why pork is a scarce ingredient in dog food, is because it could be more expensive and not seen as an alternative to waste on dog food? As I said, just a possible theory.

    Another theory is that it’s possible, that because the Islamic faith does not allow the consumption of pork for its followers, hence may offend any Muslims owning dogs, to see any pork in the ingredients list of dog food, hence as pet food manufacturers seek to maintain their marketing of pet food to every dog owner regardless of what their religion may be, and in turn, not risk a fallout or decrease in dog food sales? Just another possible theory.

  • Antonio

    @Jonathan, I might try one of the GF formulas eventually but right now I’m very content w/ the original lines of Victor’s products, but as always I’m open for suggestions if it might be a improvement. I was a skeptic like many but I’ve honestly been very impressed w/ the products they are producing thus far. I believe they are going to lunch another product that will give some of the brands like Orijen and Evo a run for the money coming very soon as well. So I’ll be on the look out for them once they are available. For you guys in the NY area, I would try talking to someone at a local feed store or otherwise and see if they can get Victor’s shipped in the area, it’s honestly went above and beyond my original expectations of the product.

  • Jonathan

    You know, what is the deal with pork? You rarely see it as a dog food ingredient at all, and when it is, it’s not the main meat ingredient. I wonder why? Blue and Wellness and Nutro all have Fish and Rice, Chicken and Rice, Lamb and Rice… why does no one have a Pork and Rice? One if the foods my dog tends to enjoy is Royal Canin Bulldog 24. It’s the only RC product I will use because instead of containing corn gluten meal as a further protein after the chicken meal, it contains Pork Meal. As far as RC goes, I think of the BD 24 as a 4-star food. But, yeah. what’s with the lack of pork in pup food?

  • http://www.drianbillinghurst.com Gordon

    Wow, I’m impressed. According to this ingredients list, this food has to amongst the best dry dog food compilation I’ve seen!! Even has pork meal in it. Very impressive and probably even deserves an extra half star on top! Wish it were available in Australia.

  • melissa

    You and me both Meagan! Unfortuently Victor doesn’t sell any of their products in my part of NY..sigh

  • Jonathan

    Nice food! Hey, Antonio, are you going to try this one on your dobbie?

  • Meagan

    Man, sure wish I could get this in my area.