Victor Dog Food (Dry)

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Rating: ★★★★☆

Victor Dog Food receives the Advisor’s second-highest tier rating of 4 stars.

The Victor product line includes five dry dog foods.

Each recipe below includes its related AAFCO nutrient profile when available on the product’s official webpage: Growth, Maintenance, All Life Stages, Supplemental or Unspecified.

  • Victor Performance [A]
  • Victor Professional [A]
  • Victor Multi-Pro (3.5 stars) [A]
  • Victor Hi Pro Plus (5 stars) [A]
  • Victor High Energy (3.5 stars) [A]

Victor Professional formula was selected to represent the other products in the line for this review.

Victor Professional Formula

Dry Dog Food

Estimated Dry Matter Nutrient Content

Protein = 29% | Fat = 20% | Carbs = 44%

Ingredients: Beef meal, grain sorghum, chicken meal, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), whole grain millet, pork meal, dehydrated alfalfa meal, flax seed (source of omega 3 fatty acid), feeding oat meal, yeast culture, natural chicken flavor, potassium chloride, dried kelp, salt, montmorillonite, tomato pomace (source of lycopene), dried carrot, choline chloride, dried chicory root, taurine, zinc amino acid complex, hydrolyzed yeast, vitamin E supplement, iron amino acid complex, manganese amino acid complex, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, selenium yeast, l-carnitine, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D supplement, copper sulfate, vitamin B12 supplement, niacin supplement, d-calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, biotin, magnesium amino acid chelate, riboflavin supplement, calcium iodate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, lecithin, fructooligosaccharide, folic acid, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Aspergillus niger fermentation product, dried Bacillus subtilis fermentation product, Yucca schidigera extract, citric acid, rosemary extract

Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 4.2%

Red items indicate controversial ingredients

Estimated Nutrient Content
MethodProteinFatCarbs
Guaranteed Analysis26%18%NA
Dry Matter Basis29%20%44%
Calorie Weighted Basis24%40%36%
Protein = 24% | Fat = 40% | Carbs = 36%

The first ingredient in this dog food is beef meal. Beef meal is considered a meat concentrate and contains nearly 300% more protein than fresh beef.

The second ingredient is sorghum. Sorghum (milo) is a starchy cereal grain with a nutrient profile similar to corn.

Since it is gluten-free and boasts a smoother blood sugar behavior than other grains, sorghum may be considered an acceptable non-meat ingredient.

The third ingredient is chicken meal, another protein-rich meat concentrate.

The fourth ingredient is chicken fat. Chicken fat is obtained from rendering chicken, a process similar to making soup in which the fat itself is skimmed from the surface of the liquid.

Chicken fat is high in linoleic acid, an omega-6 fatty acid essential for life. Although it doesn’t sound very appetizing, chicken fat is actually a quality ingredient.

The fifth ingredient is millet, a gluten-free grain harvested from certain seed grasses. Millet is hypoallergenic and naturally rich in B-vitamins and fiber as well as other essential minerals.

The sixth ingredient includes pork meal, yet another high protein meat concentrate. But it can also be high in ash — about 25-30%.

However, the ash content of the final product is typically adjusted in the recipe to allow its mineral profile to meet AAFCO guidelines.

The seventh ingredient is alfalfa meal. Although alfalfa meal is high in plant protein (about 18%) and fiber (25%), this hay-family item is more commonly associated with horse feeds.

The eighth ingredient is flaxseed, one of the best plant sources of healthy omega-3 fatty acids. Provided they’ve first been ground into a meal, flax seeds are also rich in soluble fiber.

However, flaxseed contains about 19% protein, a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.

The ninth ingredient is feeding oat meal. Feeding oatmeal is a by-product of rolled oats “and consists of broken oat groats, oat groat chips, and floury portions of the oat groats, with only such quantity of finely ground oat hulls as is unavoidable in the usual process of commercial milling”.1

This inexpensive cereal grain by-product is only rarely used to make pet food and is more typically found in cattle and hog feeds.

From here, the list goes on to include a number of other items.

But to be realistic, ingredients located this far down the list (other than nutritional supplements) are not likely to affect the overall rating of this product.

With five notable exceptions

First, montmorillonite clay is a naturally occurring compound rich in many trace minerals. Montmorillonite has been approved for use in USDA Organic Certified products.

Reported benefits include the binding of certain mold-based toxins and even controlling diarrhea and irritable bowel syndrome (IBS).

Next, tomato pomace is a controversial ingredient, a by-product remaining after processing tomatoes into juice, soup and ketchup.

Many praise tomato pomace for its high fiber and nutrient content, while others scorn it as an inexpensive pet food filler.

Just the same, there’s probably not enough tomato pomace here to make much of a difference.

In addition, chicory root is rich in inulin, a starch-like compound made up of repeating units of carbohydrates and found in certain roots and tubers.

Not only is inulin a natural source of soluble dietary fiber, it’s also a prebiotic used to promote the growth of healthy bacteria in a dog’s digestive tract.

Next, this food contains chelated minerals, minerals that have been chemically attached to protein. This makes them easier to absorb. Chelated minerals are usually found in better dog foods.

And lastly, this recipe includes selenium yeast. Unlike the more common inorganic form of selenium (sodium selenite), this natural yeast supplement is considered a safer anti-cancer alternative.

Victor Dog Food
The Bottom Line

Judging by its ingredients alone, Victor Dog Food looks like an above-average dry product.

But ingredient quality by itself cannot tell the whole story. We still need to estimate the product’s meat content before determining a final rating.

The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 29%, a fat level of 20% and estimated carbohydrates of about 44%.

As a group, the brand features an average protein content of 28% and a mean fat level of 19%. Together, these figures suggest a carbohydrate content of 45% for the overall product line.

And a fat-to-protein ratio of about 67%.

Near-average protein. Above-average fat. And below-average carbs when compared to a typical dry dog food.

Even when you consider the protein-boosting effect of the alfalfa meal and flaxseed, this looks like the profile of a kibble containing a moderate amount of meat.

Bottom line?

Victor is a plant-based dry dog food using a moderate amount of named meats as its main sources of animal protein, thus earning the brand 4 stars.

Highly recommended.

Please note certain recipes are sometimes given a higher or lower rating based upon our estimate of their total meat content and (when appropriate) their fat-to-protein ratios.

Victor Dog Food
Recall History

The following list (if present) includes all dog food recalls since 2009 directly related to this product line. If there are no recalls listed in this section, we have not yet reported any events.

You can view a complete list of all dog food recalls sorted by date. Or view the same list sorted alphabetically by brand.

To learn why our ratings have nothing to do with a product’s recall history, please visit our Dog Food Recalls FAQ page.

Get free dog food recall alerts sent to you by email. Subscribe to The Advisor’s recall notification list.

Dog Food Coupons
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A Final Word

The descriptions and analyses expressed in this and every article on this website represent the views and opinions of the author.

The Dog Food Advisor does not test dog food products.

We rely entirely on the integrity of the information provided by each company. As such, the accuracy of every review is directly dependent upon the specific data a company chooses to share.

Although it's our goal to ensure all the information on this website is correct, we cannot guarantee its completeness or its accuracy; nor can we commit to ensuring all the material is kept up-to-date on a daily basis.

We rely on tips from readers. To report a product change or request an update of any review, please contact us using this form.

Each review is offered in good faith and has been designed to help you make a more informed decision when buying dog food.

However, due to the biological uniqueness of every animal, none of our ratings are intended to suggest feeding a particular product will result in a specific dietary response or health benefit for your pet.

For a better understanding of how we analyze each product, please read our article, "The Problem with Dog Food Reviews".

Remember, no dog food can possibly be appropriate for every life stage, lifestyle or health condition. So, choose wisely. And when in doubt, consult a qualified veterinary professional for help.

In closing, we do not accept money, gifts or samples from pet food companies in exchange for special consideration in the preparation of our reviews or ratings.

However, we do receive a fee from Chewy.com for each purchase made as a direct result of a referral from our website. This fee is a fixed dollar amount and has nothing to do with the size of an order or the brand selected for purchase.

Have an opinion about this dog food? Or maybe the review itself? Please know we welcome your comments.

Notes and Updates

12/23/2016 Last Update

  1. As defined by the Association of American Feed Control Officials, 2012 Official Publication, p. 420
  • Gladys Decker

    <what kind of food u rotate with mine is a picky eater she's n puppy adult formula 2 year old dorkie

  • Luv

    The feed store that my family owns sells Victor and I can definitely tell you that we have had great results with the grain free chicken. People say that their dogs are doing really well on it. It’d be worth a try.

  • Susan

    Hi Joe,
    Victor is supose to be really good, there’s another brand called “Sport Dog” they have copied some of Victors formula’s & Sport Dog is cheaper. https://www.sportdogfood.com/

  • anon101

    Check the pollen count, I bet it is high where you are at this time, see if there is a connection….

  • anon101

    Okay, let’s hope the allergies are seasonal/mild and decrease after the first frost. However, environmental allergies tend to show up around this age (2-4) and get worse with age, not better.
    Try bathing at least once a week with a gentle puppy shampoo, wipe off their paw pads when they come in from outdoors….see if it makes a difference.
    I doubt the food has anything to do with it, but, I am not a vet and I have not examined the dogs.
    If it gets worse, bloody scabs, ear infections, anal gland problems……..
    Those are all indicative of environmental allergies.
    However, the first step would be to get an accurate diagnosis via vet exam/testing as there are other conditions that could cause these symptoms.

  • Joe

    I’ve had the dogs since August 2016. There wasn’t an issue until about 3 weeks ago. They had been eating apples off two trees in their back yard fenced in area. Lately they’ve been eating hickory nuts. Perhaps they are the culprit.

  • anon101

    How long have you had the dogs?
    Sometimes dogs are given up due to environmental allergies.
    A good diet is always a good idea, but may not have the effect you desire regarding the pruritus.
    See my posts over here https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/forums/search/environmental+allergies/

  • Joe

    I have two adopted Australian Shepherd’s 3 years old weighting around 55 lbs. They both have been scratching non stop. I’ve treated them with flee and tick doses but the itching hasn’t ceased.

    I have been using Fromm’s Adult Purple bag x 2 cups per day. I’ve been buying it at the local mill. They’re having a hard time getting in the Fromm’s and recommended the Victor Grain-free Chicken.

    Is there anyone out there who can give me advise on whether or not this change will work? How do these dog foods compare? Victor is more pricey. Looking for help and advice and to stay away from the vets who I can’t afford right now.

    Thanks,
    Joe

  • Luv

    Thanks for correcting!

  • haleycookie

    I would just like to clarify before you tell more people this, but glucosamine does not help prevent hip dysplasia. Proper calcium ratios during puppyhood prevent hip dysplasia that is why it is so important to have dogs like Labrador’s, Golden’s, German shepherds, and, Great Danes etc… any dog that will reach over 50 lbs on a properly balanced large breed puppy food for at least a year and a half, if not more.
    Glucosamine is good for joint pains as a dog ages. However unfortunely most dog foods don’t have enough to make much of a difference.

  • Mike Edwards

    yup, it’s actually really good for them as they get super shiny coats and lots of energy. My local tractor supply sells it for $30 per 40 lb bag so I rotate it with the victor. They just introduced a Sportmix wholesoms grain free which is $33 for a 35 lb bag, which I may rotate in as well just for good measure

    And lucky with the labs. Labs eat ANYTHING. I have a boxer/shepherd mix that will eat a plastic bowl if you let her, while this little guy just turns his nose up unless it’s doctored. if I give him a can of wet food, he’ll refuse his dry food for at least 3-4 days https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/bf5193213f2926ff11ec3978ad208f733c334593e4f5ebaa80b6f2a6d9ea589c.jpg

  • Luv

    I completely forgot that Sportsmix offered that!

    Yeah, you just have a picky eater. I’m lucky. I have two black Labradors and they’ll eat dirt!

  • Mike Edwards

    I was actually using the sportmix wholesomes, which is corn free (it’s their super premium line akin to diamond naturals). I tried the non chicken variety and it doesn’t give the same itchiness that the chicken did.

    and yes, my little terrier has been a pick little brat. Although as time has gone on I’ve slowly gotten him better. I find that if I rotate foods every bag he becomes less bored and will eat without doctoring anymore…. just have to rotate EVERY bag. If he has the same bag a couple months in a row he starts getting picky again

  • Luv

    If you’re still looking, then you could try Hi-Pro, which is exceptionally good for pits. The Performance is also a good product because of the glucosamine, which prevents hip dyplasia.

  • Luv

    Terriers can be picky! Sportsmix has corn and a lot of fillers in it, so there’s a huge chance that your dog has an allergy. If he still doesn’t like the Multi-pro, try the beef or the chicken.

  • Luv

    Mine have too. I assume it’s because Victor dog food has almost no fillers. It’s good that they are drinking more water.

  • Luv

    Puppies need at least 26% protein to grow properly. You could do any of Victor’s grain free line, or you could do Hi-Pro. Hi-Pro would be especially good for huskies.

  • Luv

    I’d recommend switching to Hi-Pro or Performance.

  • Luv

    It has been hot lately so some animals don’t eat too much during this time. If they’re still not eating, I’d recommend switching to the lamb formula, which is good for pickier dogs.

  • Luv

    That actually happens a good bit with GSDs! I would recommend trying the Performance because of the added glucosamine to prevent hip dyplasia, which is common in bigger dogs.

    My friend, who also has a GSD, just switched to Performance after her Roxie stopped caring about her Hi Pro.

  • Eric Moore

    Just an FYI, I was feeding my pitty the same diet before switching to raw. They had the same stool as yours. Victor is awesome kibble.

  • Eric Moore

    My dogs are fed raw and their stool is very dark brown/black. The dark stool is a good thing. It means they are doing well in the gut. Is the stool firm? A loose stool means they are having digestive issues. If the stool is firm, she is doing fine!

  • manspro

    I been having the exact same effect for the past 2 months (when I opened my new bag of Victor hi pro plus from Chewy) My GSD Inga, has been on the food since she was weened,and over the past few weeks,will only eat it if she gets really hungry. Like you, before she would hear me open the bag and run over and sit anxious awaiting her food, now she will come sniff and walk away. She is really healthy and active, but losing some weight, Dr said she is thin and trim with no problems he can see.When she does eat some she will push most of it out of her bowl. I am thinking is something changed in the formula? Is the dog bored of it at 1 3/4 years old? Or could it be bad! I also feed this to my 7 yld Chihuahua who also acts the same way! I do understand that as they get older they don’t eat as much, but some days she will go 2 days without eating and drinks alot of water. Just very odd for them both!

  • yankeenoles

    I have been feeding my 7 month old GSD Victor Hi Pro plus since she came home at 8 weeks. Early on she couldn’t wait for me to put the food down and she would just scarf it up. However over the last month and half she seems like she could care less about this food. She weighs about 55 lbs and I have taken her to the vet and they can’t find anything wrong. She will eventually eat the food but it’s almost like she no longer likes the Hi Pro Plus. Sometimes she will eat all of it and sometimes she won’t. When I put it in her bowl she will sniff it and then walk away. Has anyone else experienced this on Victor Hi Pro Plus?

  • Randy

    Mine is a very dark brown. The color of his stools seems to change based on his food-whether fromms or victor or muenster.

  • anon101

    It depends on what you mean by “almost black”
    Are you adding water to the kibble? It might help.
    Excerpt below from http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/digestive/c_dg_melena Click on link for full article
    The term melena is used to describe stool that appears black and tarry, which occurs due to the presence of digested blood in the feces.

    Melena typically occurs due to bleeding in the upper portion of the gastrointestinal tract. It has also been seen in dogs after they have ingested a sufficient amount of blood from the respiratory tract, for example from a nosebleed or coughing up and swallowing blood from the lungs. Melena is not a disease in itself but a symptom of some other underlying condition such as a gastrointestinal ulcer or blood clotting disorder. The dark color and tarry consistency of the feces occurs because of the digestion of blood as it passes through the intestinal tract.

  • Randy

    Yes it is. I fed mine a sample of muenster chicken and it was almost golden. On fromms it’s somewhere in between. I assume it’s largely because of the different protein source.

  • Amanda Keesee

    I’ve been feeding my 7 month old American pit bull terrier the hi pro plus and since I switched her to this her poop is real dark almost black. Anyone else using this food seeing this?

  • Randy

    No, it isn’t. It’s mid-America pet food. Made in Mt.Pleasant, Texas.

  • Kaelyn Rose Williams

    Is Victor owned by Diamond?

  • Sara L

    Anyone have issues diarrhea issues with red bag high energy? Dogs are age 2-6 years. All seem to have constant issues with stomach, gas, eating grass. They’ve been in this food for 5 months. First started out great. Some even gained weight that needed to, healthy coats… Also regular de-wormed.

    Any thoughts?

  • Mike Edwards

    I sent in the same message to victor when I posted mien and they said the same thing. My whippet/terrier mix LOVED the sportmix but it gave him itchy skin, switched to victor (which he was given as a puppy) and he turns up his nose at it unless it’s “doctored” even though it makes his itchy skin go away and gives him a great coat… stupid picky dog lol.

  • Susan LaFountaine

    The Multi-Pro is perfect for lazy dogs! 🙂 If you go to the Victor website, it shows specifically what the different formulas are for and Multi-Pro is listed for off season and less active pups. I just love the Victor brand and recommend it to anyone looking for a great quality food for a great price!

  • Susan LaFountaine

    The Victor Select line is “All Life Stages” its great for puppies and older dogs. The Ocean Fish is great and so is the Beef and Rice. I had both of my dogs on this for several months. One is a Rottweiler pup, the other, a 3 year old Sheltie; However, my Rottie pup suddenly developed allergies to just about everything in life and is now on a hydrolyzed protein diet (Not Victors fault) my Sheltie still eats Victor and has always done great on it. They also have grain free formulas, Active Dog and Puppy is a wonderful formula, higher in protein for active pups. I seriously recommend Victor, it is an excellent dog food at a really good price. They sell it on Chewy.com at an even better price than our local feed store.

  • sandy

    Victor made some product line changes. The Senior Healthy Weight food is now in a review called “Victor Select Dog Food (Dry)”.

  • NolaCherie

    Why is the Senior / Weight Mamagement no longer listed?

  • Lisa Manning

    Which one would be good for puppies? I have two Siberian huskies, very active, ages 3 months and 6 months.

  • Jim

    I find that my dogs drink a lot more water since I changed to this dog food I wonder why?

  • Mike Edwards

    quick question. I lost my source for Victor in town last year, but noticed that Chewy has a good supply of victor. I looked at the Multi-Pro and noticed it’s priced VERY reasonably and that ingredient wise it’s pretty similar to the beef and rice from the select line. Now I know it’s listed as “for sporting dogs in the off season”, but would it be fine to feed to a general lazy *** house pup without consequence? Nutritionally it looks EERILY similar to the Beef and brown rice which they’ve had for years.

  • Hana Spitz

    Because of the fat to protein ratio. Nothing wrong with it it just depends on the the dog that your feeding. I do feel like it deserves 4 four star rating.

  • Pibble Kisses

    Victor is a great dog food! I swear by this food and want as many ppl as pssbl to know what its done for my babies. I feed my bunch the dark blue bag, Beef Meal and Brown Rice. My little man, a rat terrier, has always had extreme skin problems. He would itch so bad he would cry and would constantly bite at this feet and back right above his tail to the point he’d bleed. He also had horrible red marks all over his little belly. I took him to the vet countless times. They did every possible allergy tests, fungal tests, you name it, they did it. We tried countless medications: powders, lotions, pills, everything. They eventually told me there was nothing they could do and referred him to a specialist, an animal allergy and dermatology place, who pretty much did the same thing the vets did and just did tests and prescribed medicine. Nothing worked and my baby was suffering. I started researching food and found this one and decided to give it a try. Let me also mention my little man had also had seizures since I first rescued him, also w/ no known origin, cause, or treatment. Since I started him on Victor (knock on wood), he has never had another seizure since and his skin cleared up and he’s never been itchy or lost his hair again. His coat is amazing! Also, one of my foster dogs, a female beagle, also had seizures. Again, once she started on this food, she never had them again. All my crew eats this now and EVERYONE remarks how beautiful their coats are and how fit all my babies are. Their coats just gleam in the sun and you can see how fit and muscular they all are. Victor is an amazing food. I’ve always wanted to comment on something like this and let ppl know what a miracle this food has been for me and my family. Thank you Victor!!

  • Christina Dubuque

    You are crazy…diamond has killed many dogs and sickened them and had more recalls then toyota..

  • Natasha Myers

    Why is the High Energy rated the same as the Multi Pro? High Energy has better ingredients and more meat content.

  • Hana Spitz

    Is Evangers and Victors made by the same company? My dogs have done well on Victors in the past but i have heard some bad things about the Evangers company.

  • Susan LaFountaine

    I have tried several different brands of kibble for my gang. I have a two year old Sheltie and a 5 month old Rottweiler puppy. I tried the Grain Free formulas but found that my puppy was drinking and peeing excessively and my Sheltie was just getting FAT! There was no other kibbles that were not grain free that were for all life stages out there. I really needed to have them both on the same food as it can get expensive buying two different kinds. I have a friend that works at our local farm/feed store and she got me to give Victor a try. They sell it there and it is all she feeds her dogs. I am so happy that I did!! This food is excellent quality! Both of my dogs eat it up like crazy! They never got the bad diarrhea from switching brands, in fact, they have never had more solid, well formed poops like they have with Victor. Their coats are shiny, they are full of energy, and my Sheltie is finally starting to take off some weight. They also have several different flavors that are for all life stages. I am so very pleased with this product and I would highly recommend it to anyone looking for a high quality but affordable kibble for their babies.

  • Amateria

    Oh my goodness what an awesome name for it haha I’ll definitely use that at least once in the future.

  • April French Leavitt

    True but it’s not like it’s Pukerina or something. This is a quality kibble

  • D J

    I just had my 2 belgian shephards on Nutra Pro 38 for a week. Their dog feces were fine but they sure did not want to eat this food. My one dog is a glutten for any food he likes and he would just lay down in front of the bowl for 15 minutes before starting to eat it. Although the food has 5 stars, I felt the guilt of feeding them something, they begrudgingly choose to eat and don’t like. I just received a bag of the Senior/Healthy weight which has 4.5 stars and both sniffed it and ate it. The other dog who has not been finishing the Nutra all week came over to me at feeding time wanting some of the new food and ate it up. Hopefully the Senior/Healthy will work for these 8 and 9 year old dogs.

  • theBCnut

    Bummer!

  • Amateria

    At this point I don’t think their going to answer me as it’s been a whole week lol, I guess if I get an answer eventually I’ll reply again if not than it means they never answered.

  • Champ Richard Jr.

    So does that mean this food is not good

  • Amateria

    I’m on an IPad so there’s no real option to do that and yeah I hope so too.

  • theBCnut

    Cool and if you ever want to know who up voted someone, just hover over the up arrow.

    I hope they give you more than a canned answer.

  • Amateria

    Oh btw sorry for the late reply to K9 Natural but I asked them just now, so you’ll have your answer soon and whoever up voted you will also know in the days ahead.

    Hopefully their answer to this will be more pro and less noob lol.

  • Pitlove

    I’d stick with Victor, personally.

  • Champ Richard Jr.

    Is black and gold dog food good the black bag

  • DogFoodie

    I agree with BCN.

    What I was reading stated that “0.7% sulphuric acid or an equivalent amount of another acid” is added so that the blood can be preserved for up to a week before processing.

    http://www.feedipedia.org/node/221

  • theBCnut

    I would assume they didn’t say in the first place for the same reason I believe Purina uses generic terms for some of their ingredients. They are not bound by law to keep using chicken blood, so in the future if they find beef blood cheaper than chicken blood, they won’t have to change anything on their bags.

  • theBCnut

    I guess my follow up question to them would be if they actually tried to replicate the correct amount of blood, and then I would want to know if the blood used had anything added to it before being incorporated into their food.

  • DogFoodie

    Nothing like trying to divert your attention to something else they’d rather you be concerned about instead of fully answering the question you asked.

  • bojangles
  • bojangles

    Hi Amateria and Storm’s Mom

    Below are the 2016 AAFCO definitions for the 2 types of blood meals, animal plasma and poultry meal.

    What you’ll see is that the definitions for animal plasma and poultry meal allow you to indicate the name of the animal it came from.

    The mfg can call it animal plasma if they don’t want to use a more specific term or if it comes from multiple animals, or if it comes from a chicken they can call it chicken plasma.

    The same is true for poultry meal. If it comes from multiple poultry species a mfg has to call it poultry meal, but if it comes from only chickens they can call it chicken meal.

    When it comes to blood meal, there is no option per AAFCO to name it from the animal it came from. So if it comes only from chickens it still is supposed to be called blood meal. AAFCO does require a company to list the process used to make the blood meal, as in flash dried or conventional cooker, dehydrated.

    So Victor, technically are NOT allowed to list the animal the blood meal came from, BUT they are supposed to list the process used to make it.

    Sometimes smaller companies, like raw, list the name of something that they are not supposed to list the name of, or some other description that is technically not allowed.

    So Victor is not supposed to list the animal the blood meal came from even if they wanted to.

  • Amateria

    Right I forgot about that, that’s why I keep reading the stuff daily so that just maybe it will stay in my forgetful head for once.

    I wouldn’t use food without named products either, if I’m choosing a kibble it’s going to have to have named products everywhere, I’m going to have to know what everything is and why it’s there and if it’s an exotic protein with a chance of being from China I will email beforehand to confirm the location they got it from, but some kibble companies have lied about that stuff, so I also take into account people’s experiences and a wide variety of other reading, in short I research like crazy but I enjoy doing it at least.

  • Storm’s Mom

    Not providing that one extra word to specify the animal involved allows them to legally change the animal from which they get the blood without changing the label… likely whatever’s cheapest at the time. That’s why I find any sort of generically label ingredient to be highly suspect, and I won’t use a product that has such an ingredient on the label. If an animal is specified on the label, they are legally obligated to be using it (although they do have a 6 month window after switching ingredients to update a label, I believe). An email (or phone call) telling a consumer more specifics does not carry the same legal liability as the label does.

  • Amateria

    So I have to wonder why they didn’t just list it as such, seems there’s still a few companies out there that are like if you want to know we will tell you but we won’t describe it on the ingredients list, because adding one extra word is so damned hard…

  • Amateria

    Yeah the response could of been better, it didn’t really fulfill much of anything for me, I was expecting a more professional one rather than just the usual response that most companies give 🙁

  • Pitlove

    Hmm, not sure if that makes me feel better or worse lol 🙂

  • Amateria

    So I did ask K9 Natural and they answered with a pretty standard response saying:

    As you probably know the list of ingredients is listed by weight, with meat bring our number one ingredient. Blood contains a lot of moisture and is therefore quite heavy relative to the amount used. We are looking to replicate a diet that a dog would naturally find if it has the choice in the wild and blood is an important part of that. It also contains vitamins & minerals helping to ensure a complete diet.

    The long term effects of diets high in starch & carbohydrates via corn, wheat, rice, potato, pea, soy etc are more worthy of concern. If a dog owner is feeding a dry food biscuit/kibble they will be feed a diet that is at least 30% carbohydrate while dogs have zero dietary need for carbohydrates.

  • LabsRawesome

    Yeah, I’d probably just skip the formulas that include blood meal. Not that I think it’s a bad ingredient, I’d just rather use a food that doesn’t have it.

  • Crazy4cats

    I got a reply already, but I don’t think I asked specific enough questions. They stated that it is Chicken Blood Meal that is purposely dedicated in collection for meal. They go on to say it is a highly digestable protein source. It is not in either of the recipes I feed at this time.

  • Crazy4cats

    Well, I am fluffed about it, darn it! LOL! So, I’m going to see what I can find out.

  • theBCnut

    Blood meal would definitely pump up the protein, but as long as it isn’t adulterated, it would be good quality protein, very bioavailable.

  • theBCnut

    It will have to be someone else. I can’t use Victor for mine, so I’m not to fluffed about it.

  • theBCnut

    Tissue from a living animal left laying around is considered to be contaminating to the environment, so using blood in food would have less rotting tissue to contaminate the dump or the ground at the slaughterhouse. The biggest issue with blood used in food would be that animals used for dog food may have been treated with something that shouldn’t be in any food supply whatsoever ever and those products/poisons may be in the blood. The second issue would be quality. Was it stored hygienically? The third issue would be processing.

  • DogFoodie

    Interesting articles, C4D. Thanks for sharing.

    This particular line from the second article struck me as concerning: “Processing blood into feed removes potentially contaminating slaughter wastes from the environment.”

    So, it sounds as though blood as a byproduct of slaughter is an environmental hazard. So, I don’t know how making it into a meal, to which lime or other chemicals may have been added, makes it into a healthy ingredient.

  • Pitlove

    I would imagine the plasma is separated from the blood in a similar way as they do at the vet’s office with a centrifuge. I can agree that porcine plasma does read better than blood meal, but I think I’d like to know more about both, like you do. Post any info you find!

  • DogFoodie

    I agree, named products, I wouldn’t mind as much. Maybe I’m jumping to conclusions, but in the case of plasma, I tend think that there is some separation of components taking place and therefore filtering out of some of the less desirable components.

    I agree that I’ve always thought of Victor as a high quality, budget friendly product. This is the first time I’ve seen this ingredient in one of their foods.

    This ingredient just strikes me as low quality and I need more information about it. It won’t keep from recommending other Victor products that don’t contain blood meal and better overall ingredients.

  • Crazy4dogs

    Hi DF,

    I agree with you. I was only familiar with blood meal as I use it in my garden as a fertiilizer and will sometimes mix it in to deter rabbits and squirrels. From everything I’ve found on it, it is high in nitrogen, does contain protein, but is considered a cheap animal feed and possibly a protein booster. Apparantly it’s been used in livestock feed, and now dogs. 🙁

    http://www.thedogpress.com/dogfood/ingredients_liquorman.asp

    http://www.feedipedia.org/node/221

  • Amateria

    I’ve seen it as the 2nd/3rd ingredient in black puddings over here before, to be honest they never tasted any different no matter where in the ingredients the blood was placed.

    I will always prefer the polish one, bought at the polish club because everyone else’s is just too fatty for me and either flavourless or weirdly flavoured.
    The polish one is very peppery however, they could’ve used less pepper that’s for sure.

  • Amateria

    Of course,
    I had actually forgotten that I had looked up blood meal several times and it was always referred to compost not something you’d want to give your dog because it was unspecified and most likely of very low quality.

    Did Victor always have these ingredients though? Not the reformulation or whatever but just before all this, I always thought it was good quality low priced food, but the ingredients weren’t as appealing as I remember unless I’m remembering a different brand because that’s very easy to do with so many foods out there.

    Named blood I don’t mind, perhaps there’s no need for it to be the 2nd ingredient though and their general reformulation went in the right direction for some of the ingredients but not for all, putting whole eggs higher up on the list was definitely nice.

  • Crazy4cats

    I’ve never stated that. I’ve mentioned numerous times on here exactly what I feed my dogs. I have to look at ingredients. My dogs have digestive issues. One criteria is however, I don’t particularly like unnamed animal ingredients. If you are looking for a debate, I’m not interested.

  • DogFoodie

    Hi Amateria,

    There were a couple of reasons I brought it up in the first place.

    I view an unnamed animal ingredient as a byproduct, and in this case, slaughterhouse waste. Blood meal is something I’d use to feed my pollinator garden, not nourish my pets.

    Then, to see it listed as the third ingredient just about blew me away. Yes, it has nutritive value, but I’d much rather see quality, named ingredients at the top of the ingredient list.

    Yes, Nature’s Logic also uses a similar product. They’ve used both porcine and lamb plasma. Plasma, not blood or blood meal. They’re also very transparent about their ingredient sourcing and the named plasma is included in a lesser quantity than in the particular Victor product I was referencing.

    To me, it seems as though this may be a cheap, questionable quality ingredient that’s being used to boost profit.

  • Cannoli

    i feed raw too but my understanding is that it’s myoglobin. the redder the meat the more myoglobin it produces.

    to me it’s a sight of freshness. heck even my meat i eat it produces alot of this substance. once it turns brown which I don’t let it sit in the fridge for long i know it’s starting to turn from being fresh.

  • Storm’s Mom

    Sorry, I probably should’ve specified that I’m not adverse it being in the product (I’ve used Nature’s Logic numerous times, and it’s always had porcine plasma in the ingredient list), but I’d rather see other ingredients in the top 3-5 ingredients (meat proteins, for example). I just think that if I saw it that high up in human foods (which I don’t think you ever would..for a reason..), I wouldn’t buy the product for myself, so why would I buy it for my dog? (yes, I know they have different nutritional needs, but…)

  • Amateria

    Thanks regardless and I am now done for the night and going to bed I bid you all farewell!

    I’ve kind of missed responding on here to be honest, but the last few days I was not a happy camper it would of not been very wise for me to converse with anyone here or in real life, sometimes I go month to month without much issue, this month I was at war with the world lol.
    By month I mean that thing that happens ‎(ノಥ益ಥ)ノ ┻━┻ lol.

    Took me forever to copy that like omg my iPad hated that website with an intense passion!

  • Pitlove

    I understand. Honestly, I wish I had a better answer but I’m not sure if there are long term negative effects associated with blood meal, porcine plasma, etc. I’ve used foods with it before and it didn’t bother me, but never long term.

    If Rusty is already doing well on Ziwipeak, which is a good food, then maybe it’s not worth it in case he does have a bad reaction. I know thats how I feel about my allergy boy. I try to stick to things I know he does well on already.

  • Amateria

    First you joke about it and than you actually do it anyways haha

  • Amateria

    Their frozen recipes don’t appear on their website at all these days not sure what’s up with that so I don’t really know what the ingredients are like with those but the ones I meant are their freeze dried variety.

    I might contact them just for the heck of it at this point lol

  • Crazy4cats

    There are a few other respected brands of kibble that contain blood too such as Dr. Tim’s and Nature’s Logic. But, it isn’t listed quite as high on the ingredient panel as Victor or as K9 Natural as you are stating. I find it really strange to include it in raw. Is it their dehydrated or frozen that you are talking about? I would contact them and find out their reasoning. Good luck!

  • Crazy4cats

    I just sent an email asking about it. I’ll report back if I get an answer.

  • Amateria

    Well it’s not like I mind having it in there, it’s just everyone was talking about it as if too much was harmful and so I was wondering what their general thoughts about it were because of what they were saying.

    Didn’t really get a concrete answer as to why so much is actually bad though?

    I could ask, however as they are out of stock with the venison for what feels like several months now and Rusty’s general reaction to it one time (not sure it was that, but it was the only other thing he was eating, so it’s hard to not think that it wasn’t the food) I might just not worry about it right now, besides Ziwipeak ingredient wise is very similar so there’s no real problems. I have plenty of options here I was just wondering was all.

  • Pitlove

    Both raw foods I use currently are always a alittle bloody once thawed out. I’d guess that’s pretty normal with raw. If I were you I would contact K9Natural to find out what they felt was the benefit of adding beef blood into their formula as the second ingredient.

    I do personally find it strange to purposefully include blood in raw food since I find raw to be bloody anyway, but maybe they have a good reason.

  • Amateria

    What about it would be uncomfortable though? Just trying to get info about it, as I was going to buy it when it comes back in stock but after all those comments and that one time were rusty got sick, I think I’ll just stick to Ziwipeak and its cans on occassion as their pricey.

  • Storm’s Mom

    I wouldn’t be comfortable with that, personally.

  • Amateria

    Since you guys are all talking about the addition of blood to the food, k9 natural here has changed its ingredients to contain beef blood or other animal blood based on the formula as the 2nd ingredient, could this cause any potential problems?

    Because BCnut has stated that small amounts are ok, but 2nd ingredient means that there will be a huge load of it and I was wondering what people’s take on this would be thanks!

  • Storm’s Mom

    Because you place more importance on the company (what is says and does) rather than the ingredient? 😉 Unless you’re saying you don’t in this case?

  • LabsRawesome

    Maybe someone should contact Victor to see what they have say about it.

  • Crazy4cats

    Does blood meal pump up the protein level at all? It’s only in the lamb and ultra pro so far in the grain free recipes. Wondering if it’s there to increase protein in the recipes that contain the more expensive meat. Victor isn’t as cheap as it once was. The prices have been steadily rising. Bummer!

  • DogFoodie

    I completely agree, BCN! This exactly what was picturing. 🙁

  • theBCnut

    I don’t think it sounds high quality either. In fact, I think it sounds like the slaughter house drains everything into a barrel and lets it congeal. In other words, the dog food has a large amount of scab in it. I really don’t expect the highest quality ingredients in an economy food. There has to be a reason that they can keep the prices down.

  • bojangles

    Hi Pitlove,

    That is actually the AAFCO definition for “Blood Meal, Flash Dried”

    How were you able to determine that the Blood Meal used in Victor’s food was Flash Dried, and not processed by one of the other 3 methods?

  • Cannoli

    Ethical breeders breed for the temperament and the specific genetic behaviors of that breed. This requires years of learning and understanding.

    If a breeder does not breed for these reasons than they are backyard breeders. We have way too many skittish dogs in breeds that should not be skittish like pit bulls, GS, collies, etc.

    I read a news article recently that American contractors in Iraq killed via gassing over 50 GSD dogs because they were allegedly bred with bad genes and had both behavioral and genetics issues.

  • Antonio Fisher

    Ditto

  • Pitlove

    This is the AAFCO definition for Blood Meal: “Blood Meal is produced from clean, fresh animal blood, exclusive of all extraneous material such as hair, stomach belchings and urine except as might occur unavoidably in good manufacturing process. A large portion of the moisture is usually removed by a mechanical dewatering process or by condensing by cooking to a semi-solid state. The semi-solid blood mass is then transferred to a rapid drying facility where the more tightly bound water is rapidly removed. The minimum biological activity of lysine shall be 80%.”

  • Crazy4cats

    Hero doesn’t have it either. I think I’ll pass on the g/f lamb until I learn more.

  • DogFoodie

    I noticed it was third ingredient listed. That seemed like quite a bit volume-wise. It was also the fact that the specific animal source wasn’t named. I definitely think it has nutritive value; but in this generic form, it doesn’t sound very high quality.

    When saw this earlier today, I only saw the Nutra Pro picture. I didn’t see the Hi Pro Plus picture at all. It looks like the Hi Pro doesn’t have blood meal.

  • theBCnut

    Nature’s Logic has porcine plasma. I don’t have a problem with a small amount of blood, as far as it providing trace elements and micronutrients, but I wouldn’t really want it to be a huge part of the diet. It is normal for a canine that is catching prey to eat the blood from the animal it catches.

  • Crazy4cats

    I noticed that too and was a little surprised! It is also listed in their new grain free lamb formula that I was thinking about trying. I am feeding the Hero recipe right now and am wondering if it has it too. I will check the bag when I get home. The website does not list it in the ingredient panel. I’m not sure what blood meal is and if we should be concerned or not. It is a regular part of our kibble rotation.

  • DogFoodie

    Seeing the blood meal in the recipe concerns me. I don’t ever recall seeing this in any of Victor’s formulas previously. Is this a recent addition?

  • Hana Spitz

    Hi Mike
    This company has update their website and changed their food formulas. It has taken out all the vegetables pomace except the tomato. I’ll be curious to how the dogs do with the new recipes.

  • Brandon White

    The Hi Pro Plus or the Nutra Pro are great foods for your 3 month old Bully Female

  • InkedMarie

    Glad to read the update!

  • Mike Edwards

    Just posting an update… it’s been about 17 days on the Victor Beef formula and I just added pumpkin to her diet for the first week. after that it’s just been plain dog food. she was switched over cold turkey because I ran out of the other stuff too soon (she’s growing in leaps and bounds and is always hungry), but so far it’s a HUGE improvement over the pro stuff. she now has half formed stools vs. just pure liquid explosive diarrhea…they’re a deep chocolate color and still CAN be loose, but firms up too if she stays inside most of the day (she’s probably eating something in the yard too) but after a cold turkey switch for 2.5 weeks she’s shown a lot of improvement in her stools and not soiled her crate once, She’s happy as a clam and basically loves everything so I’m not too worried about health. I’ll do a followup fecal test just in case when I get her 6 month heartworm test next month, but so far I’m much happier with the switch

  • Jacquell Rashad Buckholts

    Which one is best for my 3 month female bully?

  • Natasha Myers

    Another option might be the Victor Nutra 38 for active dogs and puppies or the grain free for active dogs and puppies. The grain free has better ratings and more meat content than the grain inclusive.

  • Natasha Myers

    I’m going to order from chewy.com

  • Mike Edwards

    Lol. I and taking it as such. Just explaining my thought process as I was narrowing down the causes and/or triggers

  • Crazy4cats

    Ok then, I’ll quit nagging! : D

  • Mike Edwards

    Oh yeah. I’m keeping that in mind and if it doesn’t get fixed by swapping out the food I’m going to check into a fecal test. The only reason I haven’t yet is because it all started the day of the food switch and instantly gets better with a day of chicken and rice. Just too perfect. However if the batch of grain free does nothing when I switch her back next month the vets it is

  • Crazy4cats

    She’s a lucky pup to be rescued by you. You are lucky to have such good prices on Victor in your area.

    Sounds like it must be the food. But I just have to add that giardia and coccidia are not killed by regular dewormers just in case the loose stools continue. Best of luck to you!

  • Shawna

    Hi Mike,

    You ARE correct in that it is usually the protein that causes food reactions but even carbs have proteins — the gluten protein in wheat, barley and rye, and contaminated oats, seems to cause lots of issues for people and pets alike. The protein in oats is similar enough to wheat protein that, in some, it too can cause issues. That said, it’s low enough in the ingredient list that I wouldn’t expect such a severe reaction so quickly? Sorghum and millet seem to be better tolerated than some grains but they could be the issue. Could also be the yeast culture, alfalfa, flaxseed as well as many other possibilities.

    The best thing to do is check the ingredient list against the old food and document the differences – if it is an allergy (or more likely a sensitivity) this, over time, may help you pinpoint the potential ingredient/s causing the issue.

    I would agree with you that Shepherds tend to have more GI problems. The reason for this (I found in the Merck Vet Manual) is that as a breed they are more likely to be IgA deficient (immunoglobulin A). IgA protects the gut from bacteria, food sensitivities etc. Probiotics can help boost IgA but avoidance of a food causing issues is the best bet. This way the IgA will be available for other things like bacteria.

    From the Merck Vet Manual if interested
    “Some German Shepherds have lower IgA levels than other breeds and a higher incidence of intestinal infections. IgA deficiency in Shar-Peis is highly variable; some have negligible serum and secretory levels, and some have normal serum levels and low or negligible secretory levels. Like German Shepherds, affected Shar-Peis have more problems than expected with allergies. Dogs with these immunodeficiency syndromes may have a higher than usual incidence of autoimmune diseases and autoantibodies, such as autoimmune hemolytic anemia, thrombocytopenia, and systemic lupus erythematosus.” http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/immune_system/immunologic_diseases/primary_immunodeficiencies.html

    They suspect proteins in certain foods actually cause autoimmune diseases (good info below) so in a GSD or GSD mix I think it’s really really important to rule out food sensitivities as a cause of symptoms.

    “Lectin” proteins (which are mostly in grains) are suspected of contributing to autoimmune diseases.
    “Of particular interest is the implication for autoimmune diseases. Lectins stimulate class II HLA antigens on cells that do not normally display them, such as pancreatic islet and thyroid cells.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1115436/

    Good luck in getting it figured out!!!

  • Mike Edwards

    thanks for replying guys. I’m like 95% sure it’s not parasites since she was a puppy and we JUST had her through 3 rounds of full de wormring with the last one ending 4 weeks ago. I’m pretty dang sure it’s the food because she was a BIZNATCH to get switched over. like I gave her a 10% pro formula and 90% of the older grain free active dog/puppy and she had explosive diarrhea every hour to two hours.. I switched her instantly back to the GF and boom, she cleared up in 24 hours, tried the 10%/90% mix again and back to nastiness. I had to mix in a heavy dose of rice and pumpkin in to get her through the adjustment phase… she had to switch another 10% each 4 days until we ran out and then I continued adding a heaping spoonful of pumpkin to her dish for the last month and a half … if I forget to add the pumpkin for more than 3 or 4 days her poos start getting softer and softer quickly. If I give her a meal of boiled chicken and rice… instant fix and as long as I feed her some pumpkin she firms up to where it’s acceptable (the stools are never firm like my other dog who THRIVES on the Prof formula more than any of the other Victor ones, but they’re not horrible either). I’ve given her 9 or 10 weeks on the pro and she’s not getting any better so I switched to the Beef today (had picked up a bag last week because I wanted to test it out until my local supplier gets the bags of GF back in next month once his supply issue is due to be fixed). Like I said, I’m PRETTY dang sure it’s the pro formula as she was fine on the GF for the fist few weeks we had her, she’s been fully dewormed as a safety precaution cuz she was abandoned and other bland foods fix her right up in less than a day. I had considered chewy originally but figured “nah, it’s the same brand, just a different flavor” since my other dog is iron gun.. I can cold turkey him on just about every brand I can think of… he’s just a picky eater. $37 for the GF bag is a LOT better than $60 ish shipped

  • Pitlove

    Hi Mike-

    I few customers at my work have dogs who, even within the same brand of food, need to transition the dog over as if they were switching brands all together. It could be that she is one of those kinds of dogs who has a bit more sensitive of a stomach than others.

    Crazy4cats gave you some really great advice that I think is worth following up on and I would definitely check out chewy.com like she suggested. You can have food autoshipped to your house and the shipping is free for orders over 49$.

  • Crazy4cats

    Hi Mike-
    It’s so hard to know sometimes. I feel your frustration. I just wanted to let you know that you can order Victor online at http://www.chewy.com, http://www.sportdogfood.com and Amazon.com for those times that you cannot get it locally. Also worms and parasites are common in pups and can cause intermittent diarrhea. Especially, round worms, giardia and coccidia. Have you taken in a stool sample to be sent to a lab for a full panel analysis?
    In addition, make sure you watch the calcium levels in her food since it sounds like she may be a large breed pup and could be at risk for joint issues. There is a great article on this site that you can find on the left border on how to pick food for a large breed pup.
    Good luck with your wonderful new addition! I sure hope she does not already have any food intolerances or allergies!

  • Mike Edwards

    I had a quick question regarding my pup. Newish pup, had her for about 3 weeks on our leftover bag of Victor Grain free puppy and adult… she seemed to do great on it. I can’t get the grain free any more due to our distributor not ordering it in time and having to wait a few months to get it, so I grabbed a bag of the Professional formula. she had a HAAAAARD time switching over to it with diarrhea. even doing 10% switch every 4-5 days was too much. I had to add pumpkin to her diet twice a day to get her to firm up to where she wasn’t blasting the crate at night with liquid poo. well it’s been 2 months on this food (including the 2-3 weeks of changing over from the old food bit by bit with pumpkin) and she has off and on solid and diarrhea for her stools. it was INSTNANT fix by switching back to the victor grain free puppy and adult (red bag) formula but I can’t get that for a while… I know the Professional formula didn’t treat her right, but I’m not sure WHY… was it too much fat??? or too dense in calories (448 vs. 396 of the grain free)… I grabbed a bag of the Beef and brown rice formula to test on her this time around (takes her about 2 months on one 40 lb bag right now) since it has a good bit less fat in the diet, but I was just wondering about Grain intolerance. I’d be surprised since I know most dogs are allergic to the protein source rather than a grain, and even the “grain” versions don’t have soy, wheat or corn which are the common triggers. That and the Grain free AND the professional formula have a mixture of beef, chicken and pork as their protein sources… any thoughts? too much fat or calorie density in the Professional ??? I figure if it doesn’t clear up with the Beef I’ll switch to a grain free to see if that was the problem… she’s a part shephard part boxer mix and I know shepherds are famous for their GI problems

  • Python

    Ordered from Chewy. Thanks!

  • Crazy4cats

    Ha Ha! I’m not surprised. I’ve noticed over the past few years that you are very dedicated to your furries. I think it’s awesome! I like to support my local stores, but ordering online now and then is so tempting and convenient! Thanks for all you do! Much appreciated.

  • sandy

    I used to drive out to the rescue store which is 140 miles round trip and bring home giant loads of food for myself and other fosters! I only go out there a few times a year now.

  • Crazy4cats

    Don’t drive 110 miles! Order it from Chewy. Here is the link: http://www.chewy.com/nutrisource-large-breed-puppy/dp/38141
    Many on this site have had good results ordering from this company.

  • Python

    Thought something was wrong. We purchased a seven-month-old Standard Poodle male late December 2015 and kept him on breeder’s recommended 50% Iams and 50% Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy Foods and he went from 55 to 64 pounds by the beginning of March. Switched him to Victor Select Hi Pro Plus Formula Active Dogs and Puppies for the last six weeks to give him more protein and fat and he has gained TWO pounds in six weeks! He doesn’t like it and we have been adding our leftover food to get him to eat. Will drive 110 miles round-trip to get him NutriSource Large Breed Puppy Chicken and Rice tomorrow!!! Thanks!!!!

  • iamlongverylong

    Update: We wrote to NutriSource with some questions and was surprise when the regional rep for NutriSource reached out to use prior and answered all of our questions/concerens.

    We have moved to NutriSource Large breed Chicken and Rice and the puppy version. Our puppies have been gaining weight since the change and we could not be any happier. Our adult dogs have also taken very well to the NutriSource.

    Our feedback on the Muensters is that dogs didnt have much interest in it and the smell of the poo was more than I could handle.

  • InkedMarie

    If you think it is the Diamond, I’d definitely take him off. If he did well on Victor, go back.

  • Lisa Duggan

    I have a dog that has developed seizures he’s 5 and we use to be on victor snd switched to diamond naturals and that’s when he started having seizures. I’m wondering now if I should go back to victor???

  • Gabriela Decker

    I just read the comment below from the Standard Poodle breeder and am very sorry to hear those results. My personal experience has been wonderful with Victor. I was feeding Beneful and one of my Spoos got oral cancer and died 2 months later. The other dog developed seizures and was on meds twice a day. I switched to Victor when I got a new puppy and in the last 2 years, my boy has been seizure-free and off his meds over 6 months. My girl, who only has had Victor is now 2 and solid, strong and healthy! Love this food for them.

  • Ana

    Oh YES!

  • txtea

    A lot like most Medical Doctors!

  • iamlongverylong

    We are breeders of Standard Poodles and about 7 months ago changed to Victor Select Hi Pro Plus Formula Active Dogs and Puppies. We had been using Frooms but changed due to distance from our local distributer is so far. Since the switch our females have had three litter and the puppy birth weights were smaller than normal. Well as time has gone by our puppies from these litters have not grown very much. The avarage size at 8 weeks is usually 10lbs or more. We are well under 8lbs now and even some puppies at 13 weeks of age are still under 10lbs. Our puppies that have shipped out have gained weight quickly leading us to question our choices. After discusssing this with a close breeder friend of our that is using the same “Victor Select Hi Pro Plus” we start seeing similiar comarisons in the puppy weight challenge. The dogs love the food but I am not sure what the root cause could be. Do we need a higher fat content or is the High Pro not as digestive? Some of our puppies that have shipped and gaining weight are using NutriSource Grain Free (Dry). While this looks like a good solution this is not readily available here. we are also looking to switch to the Victor Grain Free as well as MUENSTER NATURAL™ CHICKEN AND PORK.

    AS I type this we were just delivered a bag of the Victor (grain free) and be doing a one week test to see how our puppies gain.

    Tonight I am traveling to pick up the Muensters and test that as well.

    We are getting desperate as this has been a huge hit to us. Puppies are healthy but are skinny and small.

  • LabsRawesome

    I think most, if not all dog foods have their raw ingredients tested for contaminants these days. And then the finished product is also tested.
    In your original post you said ” I have heard that it is better to do live animal taste testing. I can’t find anything about how it is tested.”
    Taste testing for plataibility (do dogs eat the food and seem to like the taste) is a totally different thing than testing a food for mold/salmonella ect.
    Do you mean did the food go through a field trial vs being formulated per AFFCO standards?

  • Angela Renee

    Some brands use actual dogs to ensure there are no adverse effects of the food while others use science and machines to test for safety.

  • LabsRawesome

    How can a machine do a taste test?

  • LabsRawesome

    lolololol

  • Weirdanimalboy .

    They look at the ingredients. If they went by taste testing “Cat Poop” would get 5 out of 5 stars.

  • Brandon

    Your welcome

  • Thea tricks

    Thank you for the info!

  • Brandon

    All Victor Dog Food formulas contain Bio-Mos® from Alltech. Bio-Mos® is derived from a specific strain of yeast and helps promote animal performance. Gastrointestinal (GI) health and integrity are essential for animal performance and Bio-Mos ‘feeds the GI tract’ and thus plays a critical role in animal nutrition.
    For you 8 month old puppy I would recommend the 26/18 Victor Performance with Glucosamine and Chondroitin.
    Good luck!

  • thea trics

    I have a 8 month old malamute/collie who’s on Diamond Naturals large breed pupppy formula. I’m considering switching to another food because his stools are soft (not mushy but it’d be nice if they were firmer) and I’m also looking for something more calorie/nutrient dense so I can feed less of it.
    I was considering switching to Victor chicken meal w/ Lamb meal or Victor Performance. Chic meal w/ Lamb because I thought the bit of Lamb in it would make it easier on the stomach (his vet favors lamb for sensitive stomachs and Lamb is the main protein in his food right now). But I like the fact that performance has glucosamine and chondroitin in it because he’s a big boy. But I never really read about people favoring beef diets in general. And I also never really hear malamute owners favoring beef diets either (usually I read about them feeding fish or poultry since that’s what the breed was developed on and what their stomachs and body usually like. Apparently. No cows in the Arctic. It could be a bunch of bs dunno).
    I chose Victor because I read somewhere that it’s comparable to beaverdam which is what his breeder gave him and his stools were awesome on it. But I can’t easily get beaverdam unless I order it directly from their website and shipping is like $20+ for a $30+ bag. Can’t afford a $50+ dog food. I like the prices of Victor chicken w/ Lamb and performance on Chewy, and I really like that they come in 40lb bags.

    So should I go for the Victor chicken meal w/ Lamb meal or the Victor Performance? Or do people have other suggestions. I want to stay in the less than $1.20/lb criteria on Chewy.

  • Hi igo, welcome to DFA 😉

    “not everyone wants a mut”

    There are plenty of purebreds, and “bullies” in local animal shelters.

    https://www.petfinder.com/

  • igo harderthanu

    all this talk about responsible breeding and how everyone should not breed and run down to their local animal shelter to adopt , not everyone wants a mut. Thats why i make sure and charge a substantial amount for my bullies that way i know they wont end up in some idiots care then eventually roam the streets lol

  • Sherry Allen

    Thanks Ana

  • Ana

    Oh. good to know of your awareness and best wishes with your endeavors.

  • Sherry Allen

    Thanks Ana for your concern. I did do research and am feeding Diamond Naturals. I did start out with Diamond and saw that Diamond Naturals was better. Also did see the recalls.

  • Ana

    Hi, Sherry, I’m not trying to be rude, but please do more research on Diamond. It honestly isn’t one of the best brands and they have had recalls on it.

  • Ana

    Absolutely, positively agree. My holistic vet advised me that vet schools spend very little time on nutrition and that the vets. to a large degree. rely on info from the industry’s reps. That’s how Science Diet, and some others, became so (wrongly) renowned as industry leaders. It’s a shame.

  • Ana

    I’ve been feeding my Weimer, Sebastian, Victor’s for approx 21/2 yrs, with good results. I used to cook for all my dogs (many approved recipes online) I burned out after yrs of doing it. Sebastian was morbidly obese for about 3 yrs, till I put him on the BARF diet (raw meat diet, info online). He lost down to his ideal weight of 79 lbs in approx 4 mos. I researched and found Victors. We rotate the Victor Nutra Pro and the Senior Healthy Weight, while continuing to use a variety of raw meat for “good boy” treats. I feel more secure with Victor’s because they have their own plant for manufacturing their dog food and that, imo, is the main reason they’ve never had a recall. Very Best of wishes with your pups!

  • Erin Goupil

    I have 2 senior dogs, a 12yr old Rotadore, Kiera, (my free mutt can have a cute breed name too), and an 11yr old Heinz 57, Shula. Just before New Years Kiera came down with a case of pancreatitis and Shula has a ruptured disc (or possibly a tumor) in his back. My vet has taken care of both of them and everyone is feeling very frisky again. Before all of this I had been feeding them both Nutro Max Senior Dog Food, Natural Chicken Meal & Rice Recipe, but ATM Kiera is on a strict diet of boiled chicken and white rice while Shula continues to eat the Nutro. I’ve already had the vet take a look at their current food and she doesn’t think there is enough fat in it to cause Kiera to relapse, but I don’t want to take any chances. Shula really isn’t that much overweight, whatever he is mixed with has left him with a very stocky body, but I know that losing weight will put less stress on his back. I would like to either put them both on Victor Senior/Healthy Weight Formula or find a good recipe for homemade food. Does anyone here have experience with this type of dog food, or malady, or making your own food?

  • Kathy Rowe

    We have 8 large dogs and feed the Victor Performance to all of them. 2 dogs are outdoor LGDs and one is a picky eater. They have done OK with the food. Our 6 indoor dogs consist of mostly Great Danes and mixes and all have not had any problems with the food (at least none they’ve told me!) and we feed the Danes 2c twice a day and their weight is great. All have thick, shiny coats. We used to feed Iams but the bags kept getting smaller and the price kept going up. A friend recommended this food to us and you get a 40 pound bag for what you’d pay for a 30 pound bag of Imans. When you have 8 dogs to feed, every pound of dog food counts!

  • Angela Renee

    Is this brand tested by machine or using actual animals? I have heard that it is better to do live animal taste testing. I can’t find anything about how it is tested.

  • Brian Blaney

    I believe that a Vet may be trained by rep/vets from Science Diet or Iams. Our peep Doctors have a similar issue of being internals rather than holistically in their study. Likely the “Vet” knows not about feed.

  • Natasha Myers

    I just ordered a bag of the Victor Hi Pro Plus to try for my 6 month old doberman puppy, my 6 year old lab mix and 13 year old terrier mix. I hope it works for them. They have problems with dandruff and excessive shedding and my pup gets like acne or something. Will report back in a few weeks with results.

  • Amanda Palmer

    Probably about a week. I have 6, 25# 45# 40#, 50# 55#, 60# and it lasts me about 10 days

  • Champ Richard Jr.

    25 19 75 75 75 60 63

  • DogFoodie

    Hi Champ,

    I seem to recall you were switching from another brand of food. Yes, Victor is a very good product. I’m using it for one of my dogs right now.

    I could be that it’s more calorie dense than the last food that your dogs were eating, so you may be feeding less of it than you were the Retriever. It’s hard to say how long a bag will last you, but it’s likely that it’ll be longer than your previous brand. Compare the number of calories (kcals) on the Retriever to the Victor that you chose.

    Introduce it slowly. Use a small amount of the new food mixed with the old and don’t add another small portion of the new and reduce the old until your dogs have good stool quality. If your dogs aren’t used to switching they might have some loose stool if you switch too quickly. If they do get some loose stool, try adding a small amount of plain, canned pumpkin to their food.

    Good luck!

  • InkedMarie

    That would depend on the sizes of your dogs.

  • Champ Richard Jr.

    How long will a 40 lb bag of this dog food last for 7 dogs

  • Pitlove

    yes

  • Champ Richard Jr.

    i just boght this food is it okay

  • Pitlove

    yes I saw that. that isn’t really addressing off topic discussion though and it doesn’t mention there being any consequence for it. I’ve seen tons of off topic convos lately that I’ve stayed out of. I haven’t seen Mike make any comments as of yet.

  • DogFoodie

    It is actually. From the commenting policy, “This website was created to encourage relevant conversation about dog food and dog food manufacturers only.” It’s the first sentence under the paragraph entitled “Personal Agendas.”
    http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/commenting-policy/

  • Pitlove

    beautiful Schutzhund photo thanks for sharing

  • InkedMarie

    Beautiful dog! Great post too. I have a puppy coming next month, we visited today; the breeder chooses. She may have a couple, three to choose from but she knows her dogs & what we want.

  • Crazy4dogs

    I agree with your completely! Your dog is beautiful and it’s nice to see Shepherds that are actually bred for a job and with correct structure, as was the intention of the breed!

  • GSDgrl82

    And to stay on topic lol I’m currently feeding Victor hi pro with raw to my working GSD’s. I don’t breed so I have no clue what the losing litters issue is but I’ve always had good results with this food.

  • GSDgrl82

    I don’t have an issue with responsible breeders, they are very much needed in my opinion and their puppies do not end up in shelters and IF they do they work to pull them but that is rare. They carefully select their homes and take the dogs back if for some reason the owner can no longer keep them. Ethical breeders have nothing to do with pet overpopulation. More emphasis needs to be placed on the low life owners dumping their pets.

    That said let me talk about my puppies dam and what her owner has done with her. She was health tested(German shepherd) so DM and hips and elbows. Collies are a working breed so for me I want to also see working titles… My pups dam is doing Schutzhund(a protection sport designed to test GSD’s), she just won a regional championship, got her IPO3 and is currently training for nationals. The sire is the same, health tested and also competed in nationals and HIS dam has a boatload of working titles and is still working at 10 years old.

    I also didn’t get to pick my puppy, she was matched to me with what I wanted(high drive bitesport prospect) and she is exactly what I wanted! Breeding isn’t just for cute babies and because you love them… It is being passionately dedicated to the breed and wanting to better them in some way. Ethical breeding also doesn’t make you any money because all that money is being spent on raising puppies, health tests and working, titling dogs. My baby girl and her bad A momma. 🙂

  • Sherry Allen

    True Pitlove and thanks

  • Pitlove

    yes it’s been over for a while. let’s not continue piling on.

  • Crazy4cats

    What you consider “adding to her thoughts”, I considered “piling on”. You guys are all very passionate about the subject and came on very strong to a brand new poster. You all worked it out and now it’s over.

  • Pitlove

    Regardless of the good things I’ve heard about Victor, I think you were smart to not continuing using it for your potential mama to be. Better to be safe than sorry!

  • Pitlove

    Hi DogFoodie- I took your comment as an opportunity to brush up on the commenting policy to ensure that I was not in violation of it with the previous conversation I joined. I was unable to find any statement directly addressing off topic discussion and the potential consequence. Anyway- thanks for you input, always appreciated!

  • DogFoodie

    It actually is part of the commenting policy already. It has been for years. I’ve been involved in completely benign conversation (one I recall was at least a couple of years ago and we were talking about organic local honey) and we were reminded by Dr. Mike to keep things on topic.

  • InkedMarie

    There you go. We all have our breaking point/toleration point. She was one of mine.

  • Crazy4cats

    Ok, thanks. My dogs had a rough start and have had some digestive issues. Victor seems to agree with them. I hope there isn’t any issues with it. I can definitely understand you not wanting to take any chances.

  • Sherry Allen

    Thank you Pitlove. I do understand now why you feel the way you do. Thanks for the information on Victor. Like I told someone else, I really liked Victor until I heard that about the breeding. And this was just what I was told. No investigating it on anything by me. Just didn’t want to chance it so switched. I feed Diamond Natural-Beef. Just started and have heard it is good. On this site.
    No hard feeling. By anyone I hope.

  • Sherry Allen

    Crazy4dogs it wasn’t about what you said so much for I really understand how you would feel the way you do being in rescue. It was mostly that I got on here to get help on the dog food and was bombed with attitude about breeding. I really had lots of respect for you for being in rescue! Good luck to you.

  • Sherry Allen

    Thanks Crazy4cats. I wish I knew. I didn’t want to take any chances so just switch to Diamond. I am feeding Diamond Naturals now. The beef. I am learning as I go on the feeding thing. lol. This man that told me about Victor and his problems with it was someone that was working for me on a job for a day and haven’t ever seen him again. I really liked Victor except for that with the breeding female.

  • Crazy4dogs

    I’m not disagreeing with you. I understand what you’re saying, I saw many of the conversations after I began to try to help her. I think people just gave up or got frustrated after giving her advice and seeing her subsequent comments, both good and bad. There were also negative comments made regarding the posters that were trying to help.

  • Pitlove

    Giving up/not responding to her and attacking her in the way some people did are two very different things. Just like I said to Aquriangt, you can choose to ignore the persons posts and let the burden of helping them fall on someone else.

    Edit: I think we can agree to disagree on the topic of Sharron. My original point was more just that the rule of being nice to people shouldn’t only apply to first time posters.

  • Crazy4dogs

    Honestly Pitlove, InkedMarie is right. Sharron has been on here for many years asking what to feed and going back to Royal Canin. I think we all tried to help her and just gave up. I actually saw a post from her on some other dog website (I can’t remember which) saying that all of the people on this site were mean to her. The interesting thing was, the post was several years ago and Sharron was still posting on this site for several years after, asking for advice.

  • Pitlove

    Yes it seems so. I tried to view some of my past conversations with her to find where she said how unwelcome she felt on here and all her comments were gone.

  • Crazy4dogs

    Did Sharron quit?

  • Pitlove

    Some people are a little thicker than others and it takes more time for them to get it. I’m not very nice usually either, but since I like posting on here I try to behave as well. However, I can only tolerate so much.

  • Crazy4dogs

    I think you’ve been on this site long enough to know that often the topic strays on to other discussions and personal experiences that really don’t have anything to do with the OP, but the discussion continues based on the OP’s comments. I’m not trying to start an argument, but I think many of us here are guilty of that.

    Edit: I am done with this discussion as there is no further reason to continue. I have no reason to bicker.

  • InkedMarie

    this is only me, no clique but not just here but other forums/groups: when i try to help people and they ignore my help or they continually ask the same thing over & over, my patience wears thin. I was gone from here for almost a year for a similar issue. I tend to be not very nice at times and guess what? I’m not always nice IRL. I try to be good online but sometimes, I’m not.

  • Pitlove

    Thats some funny logic. I’m “mad” because you called me out. No, because there was nothing to call me out on, but no I don’t want to be singled out for no reason, as I’m sure you wouldn’t either. If you don’t like what I have to say or me in general, you do not have to respond to me. Instead you could offer Shelly some advice on food choices.

  • aquariangt

    Are you kidding me with this comment? No, I didn’t speak up then. What does that have to do with anything? You’re mad because I called you out?

  • Pitlove

    It gets old and I understand that, but if Aquariangt wants to point out how we “treat” posters, the way EVERYONE on here whether they are apart of the “regular poster clique” or not needs to be taken into account. Otherwise his point is moot. I do not enjoy being singled out when I did not even start the discussion.

  • InkedMarie

    Some of us tried helping Sharron over & over, long before I recall seeing you post here. Some people just don’t want to listen & keep asking the same thing, repeatedly. That gets old.

  • Pitlove

    Remember a poster named Sharron who was dealing with digestion issues with her small breed? She was so upset about the way she was treated on this site she’s since deleted her disqus profile. I’d show you were she stated she didn’t feel welcome here but her posts were removed when she deleted her profile. How come you didn’t speak up for her?

  • Pitlove

    Hi Sherry,
    Dispite how you and others feel about my participation in this discussion, I was not (nor do I think anyone else) was trying to tell you that you can’t breed or shouldn’t. And you are right we do not know your breeding ethics. However, we don’t too often get a good quality breeder asking questions on here, so perhaps we jumped to conclusions.

    No, I’m not against breeders. I’m against certain types of breeders and there are many types. I own a breed of dog that is stigmatized, abused, used for dog fighting, illegal to own in parts of the U.S, is one of the most prevelent breeds in shelters, the most abused breed in the nation, and has over a million of them being euthanized without even being temperment tested and given a chance at adoption, yearly. A huge part of the plight of this breed is due to being over breed and bred for aggression, color, large heads, and a body shape and size they aren’t meant to have. Doing this has destroyed the original breeds that makes up the term “pitbull”. That is why I have such strong feelings towards people who breed because they have a cute dog or two etc.

    To answer your question, I have only heard great things about Victor. I’d be curious to have the food tested to see if there was a way to find out what ingredient caused the loss of your friends bitches litters. Probably not possible to do now however. I use Fromm and my pitbull does very well on it. Perhaps this is a food that could work for your Dam and the pups. My boy eats the Fromm Gold line.

  • aquariangt

    My issue is that you and pitlove just completely turned this poster off to the site, where she could get valuable information regarding a variety of dog related information. Attacking (and that’s how it read, whether or not you meant it, though you specifically brought up many valid points) someone who isn’t even looking for any information on the topic, isn’t doing any good. The “discussion” on this thread absolutely was in reference to the OP, because the first response she got was essentially questioning her validity as a breeder or being a byb.

  • Crazy4dogs

    AGT, there was some discussion between regular posters regarding the plight of dogs, whether they were rescued or a backyard breeder. If you are referring to this, that had nothing to do with the OP, but was, in fact, a discussion.

    I think you might be well aware, in your field and on this site, that all too often, people decide that they want to breed puppies and have posted questions. I also think that if you are going to breed puppies you should have a working knowledge of what are good and/or bad dog foods. I don’t think this discussion was as out of line as you are suggesting. Feel free to dislike this post as many times as you would like.

  • Crazy4dogs

    Hi Sherry,

    I’m sorry if you took offense to my comments, but I am in rescue and there are just so many dogs that are euthanized because there are not enough homes, whether fosters or adopters to take them all. Some are purebred, some are mixed, all deserve a chance at life. I honestly feel that there are way too many dogs being bred and puppies being produced. I have many friends in the dog world, including trainers, show people, day care, breeders and rescue. I also see the flip side of owners that have dogs from “reputable breeders” that have serious defects and the owners are now faced with huge medical bills because they have fallen in love with the puppy that shouldn’t have been bred in the first place.

    Again, If you take offense, I’m sorry. I can only hope that you breed for the betterment of the breed and are responsible enough to ensure the health of the dog and to take the puppies back that have any medical or social problems.

  • Pitlove

    Crazy4Dogs brought the subject of her breeding her dog up and myself, Marie and El Doctor added to her thoughts. Why am I being singled out?

  • Crazy4cats

    Discussion? That’s when people talk WITH each other.

  • Pitlove

    Ah. Ok