Hill’s Prescription Diet Z/D Canine (Dry)

Deborah, do you understand why dogs like the stomache contents? Because there is essential nutritional needs in them.
Now, is the dog incapable of eating the grass off the ground or the vegitation these other animals are getting to? No, of course not.

It is because their digestive system is lacking the enzymes necessary to break down these products. Coincidentally, the herbivores they eat are designed to process these foods. So, by eating the stomach of these animals, they are getting the nutrients already processed by their prey.

I have just read the instructions on the rear of the bag, and it states to use as you say correctly, for 3-8 weeks. However it then states that if the symptoms disappear, you can continue using the product indefinitely.

Did your vet test to see if the yeast infection is candida
or Malassezia yeast?

If the infection is candida then you need to feed a LOW carb diet (which this food is definitely not). You would also want to add a high quality probiotic to the diet.

If the infection is due to an allergic reaction to a food
creating an environment where malassezia yeast can thrive than I can see the diet change. Did your vet put pup on a topical antifungal?

This food is definitely helpful in identifying an allergic
reaction as the animal protein in the food has been “hydrolyzed” which prevents the body from reacting to the protein. Hydrolyzed foods however are a MAJOR source of MSG and some dogs have issues with MSG. MSG is one possible cause of black stool — a negative reaction to MSG. Could be a reaction to the BHA too.

Food intolerances can also cause black stool. The potato
would be a suspected culprit of food intolerance in the Z/D (IF pup doesn’t eat potato in his normal diet).

This GI doctor (human doc) says black stool is not good, a
sign of bleeding in the digestive tract. I think I’d get a second opinion. http://thefooddoc.com/gi_bleeding-blood_in_the_stool I had a black “tarry” stool when I had a
bleeding ulcer.

My dog is currently on this (Prescription Diet Z/D Ultra). I have seen a difference in his bowel movements. He was previously on two different forms of a grain free Californa Natural brand. While on those, his bowel moments seemed heavier, yet still formed. with the Z/D they are smaller, still formed but on a watery to mushy side. Regarding the change in bowel, this should indicate that the food is more easily digestable for him, or could this be another issue with how he could be acting to the starch which is potato. Potato was also in one of his previous foods. The vet believes he has a protein interolance, and is why he is on Z/D. Can pets have an interolance to the fillers as well?

I have used this for 2 years on my now 15 year old chihuahua. He was constantly chewing his feet, has had recurrent ear infections to the point of being now deaf, constant rubbing his face and tail on the carpet. The vet and I decided total hypoallergenic down to his treats and he has done wonderfully on this food. Lost 4 pounds (he was a chunk) and his other health issues (cardiomyopathy, CHF) have stabilized as much as they can…we even use allergen free meds. I feel he’s getting little nutrition if I study the nutrients, but I can’t argue how much better the diet has made him…he beats me up the stairs now.

 my dog is not miserable right now i mean shes okay but it bothers me because i want my dog to be a normal dog like other dogs and not worry about her itching clawing or her teeth wearing down from excessive chewing. I want her to be totally normal. She does not seem in discomfort much at all. But still I want her to be like other dogs. I dont want to see redish paws or slighty worn down teeth I wont accept that i want a perfectly healthy 3 year old dog.

 its not so  much vets that say the dark stool or black stool is blood it is more people online scream it that i read.

That’s why they call it practicing medicine, they aren’t miracle workers and they have to do a lot of educated guess work since their patients can’t answer questions.  They’ll never be perfect but the good ones try really hard. 

It really sounds like it’s the food being thoroughly digested and not a problem at all.  I hope all this finally gets her straightened out.  Good luck.

 just started the food recently few days now the stools are small not super firm yet but i think my dog is getting use to them still and we are weeding out my dogs old food still no vomoting and energy and everything perfect new vet seems decent honestly no vet is perfect that i have ever seen in my life.

 i have changed vets 3 times

Hi Exotica

I haven’t fed this food but little dark firm stools are usually a sign that the food is thoroughly digested.

While I don’t expect instant results, if something took a long time to develope sometimes it takes time to resolve, I would not believe that my vet or what he prescribed had anything to do with the cure if it took that long. And sometimes changing vets is exactly what is called for.

what is the diff between this and the z/d ultra ? they dont carry z/d ultra in my country anymore. 

Wow, it took 4 and a half years for the food to have helped its digestive issues?  I would be wondering what besides the food helped, if it took that long.

 My dog has problems processing proteins. He has been on ZD Ultra and VERY limited “treats”, no people food, since he was 2. 4.5 yrs later, it seems to have helped his digestive problems.

I also had two special needs dogs who did well on the Ultra ZD Allergen free .. My beagle passed away at 13 but my Dacshund turned 14 this June and recently has a bad bout of staph infections .. Not due to food but most everything else … He was tested and a serum has been made for this issue .. Since he has always has skin problems this food was a savior and I suggest it to anyone who asks .. Now he will get shots to treat the allergies but again this food was a Godsend ..

I have to say this was the only food that helped my little Pom with his allergies.  He was out of Novel Protiens to try and we were about to make the decision to put him down.  Years and years of anguish watching this poor boy bite, lick, chew, cry, scream non-stop all day and all night.  This was the ONLY food that helped him to be ITCH FREE for over 3 years.  He was even able to have some scraps of food (even veggies that he used to react terribly to) without any reaction.  He has passed away just a few months now and although I truly understand the review of this prescription diet, I have to say that without it, I would have lost my boy a long time ago.
I do agree to make the best decision for your pet, but for my boy, this was the ONLY food he could have had to help him to live a normal comfortable life…we had tried everything else.
Perhaps if I had read this review 3 years ago, I would have not tried it…and his suffering would have continued.
We can’t keep them alive forever and when an owner is dealing with such heart breaking issues, we have to make the best decision we can for our pets.  I made the best decision for my Pom with this food.  (ZD Ultra-allergen free dry)

Regarding the oats used in the Acana Singles line of food, this is the reply I got…

“Our ACANA Classics and Singles formulas do contain low glycemic steel cut oats. Health Canada and the Celiac Association recently released a statement about oats in that they contain only minimal risk to those with Celiac disease and that products with oats would be considered “gluten-free”. This statement combined with our equipment flushing process ensures that the diets are Gluten free.”

My Grandma
has a dog that had HORRIBLE ALLERGIES and the vet bills kept coming in until
she could barely afford her dog!! Then the vet recommended this food and she
had him on it for years he is now 16 however he would either be constipated or
have diarrhea and chew his paws until they bleed and with this dog food being so
expensive she was running out of money fast on her fixed income. So I was concerned
and did researching and some looking around and found a cheaper BETTER
alternative Nature’s Recipe Dry Dog Food for Adult Dog,
Healthy Skin Vegetarian Recipe (veg recipe because the vet kept saying he was
allergic to protein) it is about $47 for a 40lb bag at petsmart! Now my grandma’s
dog is “going” regularly and easily he has had NO allergic reaction
in the year we have been feeding him this food and he is healthy!!! Please give
it a try! I love the price and the fact that it works for this dog that was
allergic to anything you could feed a dog! I am posting this all over the web
to hopefully help people like my grandmother!!!

I agree.

Although some prescription diets may be necessary to get an illness under control, most of the time an owner should switched to a “better” food as soon as possible.

I recognize that some dogs may need to stay on such diets their entire lives, but owners should check to make sure that’s the case.

Certified gluten free oats are going to be more expensive then standard oats as they can’t even be located next to each other when growing.  Once harvested can’t be done so with same field equipment, storage etc.

Last night when I was searching for a suitable quote I came across this data but didn’t think it important to include at the time..

“The following is a post by Steve Martin (Lucaya@AOL.COM) who has a B.S. in Milling Science, and 10+ years of experience in real world milling, and another 7+ in grain moving and storage.

I have been reading with some interest the discussion about oats and cross contamination. The grain storage/transporting infrastructure in the US virtually promises cross contamination of grains.”  http://www.celiac.com/articles/199/1/Oats-and-the-Issue-of-Cross-Contamination-with-Wheat/Page1.html

Edit — many are not familiar with the cross contamination issues of oats.. I would specifically ask Acana if the oats are “certified” to be gluten free due to cross contamination. Even if they are, some with gluten intolerance can not handle uncontaminated oat due to the similarity of the protein to gluten..

Bob’s Red Mill Gluten Free Rolled Oats are $31.32 for a 25 lb bag. The “Regular” Rolled Oats are $17.15 for a 25 lb bag. [Link to Google-blacklisted website removed by Moderator]

My guess is Acana is likely using regular and doesn’t know about cross contamination.

Yeah, I think that’s a great update. 

BTW, I wasn’t upset with you concerning the review of oats, just looking for clarification. I thought I had a way to sell the Acana Singles line, but now I’m not so sure (I sent an email asking about the harvesting process for their oats, to see if they are indeed gluten-free). I really don’t know why Acana put any grain into that food. Why not do a grain-free, limited ingredient, food?

I’m going to have to contact Acana about this, because of their line of foods that are limited ingredient, and the only grain in it is oats. I’m having trouble fitting that line of foods in somewhere. 

I’ve read reviews here that state oats are gluten-free (I posted one quote below). I’m curious on whether that was a “brain fart” by you, or if you have a different view of that grain than the good Dr. here.

“The third ingredient is oatmeal, a whole-grain product made from coarsely ground oats. Oatmeal is naturally rich in B-vitamins,dietary fiber and is also (unlike many other grains) gluten-free.

The fourth ingredient is oat flour. Since oat flour is nothing more than finely ground oats, it provides about the same gluten-free nutritional content as raw oats.”

If you want to add to the discussion, or present something new regarding this food, then by all means… please do so. 

People here have gone into great detail on why they don’t like this food. It’s a shame that all you can say is “it’s top of the line”, without anything to back up your claim. 

So thanks for nothing.

Hi J Smaldinobennett,

Sorry to hear about the problems your dog is having. I think seeing a holistic vet would be a good idea as there are many alternative treatments shown to be effective in treating IBD. I have heard reports of glutamine, natural diets, orthomolecular therapy, antioxidants, enzymes, and prebiotics/probiotics all being successful . Generally dogs with gastointestinal diseases can do well on low-fat diets with highly digestible protein, a holistic veterinarian could help you formulate an appropriate meal plan for him. It would be a shame to keep him on a food like this for the rest of his life if there’s a healthier option out there, which oftentimes there is. The vet may also be able to do an elimination diet or allergy test to help determine what food or foods are responsible for the allergic reaction.

I have a 3.5 yr old golden doodle who has had very bad GI problems.  We just didn’t know HOW BAD.  Since he was a puppy, he has had intermittent diarrhea, resolved with time, until last year.   Episode of ncontrolled diarrhea, mucous and bloody, & spitting up food and vomiting while on vacation, CAMPING in the mountains, (of course). Had to find a Vet in Pagosa Springs, CO-which she was AWESOME BTW!
 At home Dr.’s started anti-anxiety meds to “calm him down” (ADHD dog , we just say he’s a “Happy Boy”) and changed his diet to Hill’s Prescription Z-D Ultra which worked for a while, although he started to have very dark, blackish stool, but not tarry. Again, intermittent diarrhea & never quite controlled. So, they added more meds, Pepcid, Amitriptylene, Benedryl & Cerenia, (of course the parasitic prophylaxis, just for giggles). I would try rice and beef or chicken for flair ups, nothing was really helping and we never knew what would trigger it, over stimulation? Anxiety? Not sure.. Our Vet talked about referring to an Internal Med Dr for definitive testing, but we decided it wasn’t bad enough, (when is bad, BAD??? We didn’t know what we didn’t know!!)  Then, this past June, he started turning his nose to his food and barely drinking, although he was still happy and playful.  We just watched him and started to think, “OK, maybe its time to think about a specialist”.  The decision was made 2 June when we came home Saturday night @sandypugmamma:disqus  1130 pm and found he had explosive, uncontrolled bloody diarrhea all over my house.  We immediately let him outside; he did more, came back in, drank LOTS of H20, laid down in his bed and projectile vomited the water and bright red blood with clots….ALLLLL RIGHTY THEN…TO THE VET ER WE GO……ICU 2 nights, ABD Ultrasound, X-rays & Lab work: Dx: ”Acute Pancreatitis, Inflamed Bowel”… REALLY??? How?   Stabilized & sent him home on meds, but if he didn’t get better, we should consider an Endoscopy w/ biopsies for a definitive diagnosis. OK, here we go….He was good for 2 weeks, had to get 2 additional refills of Cerenia AND an injection in the 3rd week. Then the diarrhea and bloody vomiting 3 July.  I called the IM Vet and he got him in 5 July and he did an upper and lower Endoscopy w/ Biopsies that evening!!!   Well, I am here to say, I have absolutely NO REGRETS!  We FINALLY got a diagnosis…”SEVERE IBD” Irritable Bowel Disease! The Dr said when he put the scope down, his small bowel was so severe, it bled just when it touched the walls!!  My poor puppy!  I felt so bad that I didn’t know how “BAD” he was and may never have known if he didn’t vomit blood.  If I didn’t take him to a specialist and get the Endo and biopsies, we may have lost him, unnecessarily.  Happy to say, he is now on stabilized on Prednisone-maybe for life but in very low doses to manage flair-ups; B-12 injections-(Malabsorption: Small Bowel can’t absorb nutrients, so this is necessary for life), 3 anti-nausea meds until he settles down, 2 Antibiotics for coverage from the biopsies & of course, an anti-parasitic, prophylaxis.  He is finally coming back!  The final diagnosis was “SEVERE IBD with a high Eosinophil count (WBC’s)”  suggestive of possibly an allergic reaction to “something, not sure what”.  He recommends I either keep him on Hill’s Prescription Z-D Ultra, or try the Purina HA.  I am REALLY hesitant about changing ANYTHING at this point and am tempted to take him to a holistic Vet, for…Does anyone have any thoughts on a Alternative Treatments for IBD??

Thanks for the information; maybe I will try the Brothers Complete Allergy Formula as it does not seem to contain anything he is allergic to.  Like I said before, I am at my wits end as to what to feed him.  I am willing to try anything.

 Hey Barrington’s Dad

The reason I said If you must go with a kibble I would look for a single  protein food (or
limited protein) that uses fresh meat as its first ingredient is:

The best quality fresh meat will have come from the human food chain and will have been processed in a USDA inspected food facility. The best quality meat meal will have come from a rendering plant which is never part of the human food chain and is subject to much lower standards then a USDA inspected food plant.

The best quality fresh meat will be boneless and skinless.

The best quality fresh meats will always be less processed than any meat meals.

I do not think that a fresh never frozen meat is still fresh after it has been made into a kibble. I just think
that it is miles above any meat meal and that is why I made my recommendation.

Hey Barrington’s Dad

I would try The Honest Kitchen they have potato, pork, soybean, oats and milk free formulas.

THK is made from human grade whole foods that are dehydrated at low temps so it is very easy to digest and you add water to rehydrate it so you dont have to worry if your dog doesnt drink any water other then whats in his food

If you must go with a kibble I would look for a single  protein food (or limited protein) that uses fresh meat as its first ingredient. Limited proteins are best for food allergy dogs because when you switch from one formula to another you can make sure there are no overlapping proteins.

 Kibbles like Brothers contain no fresh meat and Brothers uses turkey meal in all its formulas which could cause a problem in a dog who suffers from food allergies.

Great site; I will investigate it further.  He has had allergy tests and takes shots that have not helped much. The shots are mostly for the inhalent allergies I think.  His food allergies are Soybean, Oats, Milk, Pork and Potatoes. We were doing good with the Hill’s Low Allergen formula but recently found out Hill’s is discontinuing it.  As a result, I am trying the Hill’s DD but the stomach problems are back.  

I may try the Wenaewe as I have tried everything else for our dog’s allergies.  The ZD gives him diarrhea really bad. 

There is an alternative to this that is organic vegetarian and AAFCO approved. The food is called Wenaewe. It is from Africa and is Certified 98% Organic and they say it’s hypoallergenic. First 5 ingredients are organic rape seed, organic brown rice, organic soybean, organic buckwheat seed, organic flax seed then a bunch of other organic veggies, spices etc.. May be worth a try.

Penny has been on Purina HA for about 1.5 weeks and her stool is yellow and has mucus in it.  Is this normal?
Also, is this food good for dogs with IBD?

Katherine,

How well a diet functions at diagnosing food allergy is dependent on what the dog is allergic to. Cross reactivity between protein sources occurs as well so it is possible for a dog to react to an ingredient they have never been exposed to.

   Additionally,  when limited ingredient OTC diets have been tested they have been found to contain other protein sources not listed on the label. This is likely due to contamination during processing but recently this point was driven home when FDA found Evangers “lamb” food was really “beef”

To do a proper food trial your choices are  novel protein/carb diet ( fresh or commercial) and hydrolyzed diets. When using a commercial food my recommendation is to stick to a veterinary therapeutic product made specifically for this purpose. When tested these only contained the protein sources on the label as opposed to OTC diets.

Think of this as a diagnostic test.

When I evaluate a company I like to see veterinary nutritionists on staff,  funding for nutritional research, feeding trials done on their products, proactive recalls, reasonable marketing materials free from “hockum”…

No company is perfect, Purina isn’t either, but as I said if faced with doing a food trial I wouldn’t hesitate to use HA.   

Do you know anything about the duck and potato diet and how well it works at diagnosing food allergy?

Hi Katherine C, I personally would not use any Purina product. Even their “top of the line” foods have controversial ingredients. Please watch this video by Dr. Karen Becker, she is a vet. She explains how to choose a good dog food. There is also a part 2 . http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/choosing-dog-food/karen-becker-choose-dog-food-1/

 Hi Katherine Carey-

What kind of dog is Penny?

 Yess Beneful is Purina. And I think I’d rather feed my dogs trash…

Katherine,

I did extensive reearch into Purina HA.( If you sort by oldest posts first and scroll down you can find my comments on that diet.) I consider the ingredients used in that food to be chosen for very specific reasons. I would never consider this to be a low quality food nor would I have any hesitation is using this diet in my dog if I needed to do a food trial.  

HA can be used during growth so you needn’t worry that the nutrient levels are not inadequate for maintenance.

Doing a food trial properly is really tricky. We often forget about other potential sources of “food” that can mess up the trial ( like dogs snacking out of the cat liter box).

Here is a link  with a good overview. http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=2499&S=0&EVetID=0

Best of Luck!

Hi Katherine,

I think the answer may be specific to the dog eating it. If I was choosing between the two and my dog had a lot of chicken exposure in previous diets I’d choose HA. If however my dog had a lot of soy exposure in the past but limited chicken exposure I’d pick ZD.

About 25% of dogs reactive to the base protein source will still react to the hydrolyzed version.

I have a 5 year old female Golden Retriever who had terrible redness in her ears and has allergies. She is on Ultra Z/D dry dog food and is doing much better. I, too, know this food is very expensive! Does anyone know of a less expensive comparable food? Or company who sells this as a lesser cost?

i been feeding my dog z/d for the past month he was fine up till the last few days one day he vomiited blood and the next day diarreah .

Shawna,
thanks for your kind words.  I actually picked up canned and dry today for Lucky.  She weighs 20 lbs now (used to weigh 35).  I am mostly concerned with getting her well at this point–any method is okay by me.  She has always had canned until lately, when she started eating canned and dry mixed due to the extremely large amounts she needed to counteract the “starvation”.  As she gets better, she will need less and all canned will work well.  I am also hoping that she will be able to transition back to a normal food eventually, but we’ll cross that bridge when we get to it.
Thanks again.

I am about to try z/d for my dog who has been rapidly losing weight due to malabsorption problems.  Other attempts to treat her condition have failed.  I’m watching her starve do death in spite of large amounts of food.  I’m optimistic that this will help her.  I’m hardly concerned with “quality” when this may actually keep her alive and feeling better.

Thank you. Our dog has skin issues. Banfield vet recommended this food. Too expensive for us but we were going to sacrifice to buy it. now that I know the content, I dont feel guilty for not buying it.

One of my dogs has inflammatory bowel disease. I’ve tried MANY different limited ingredient and novel sources of protein non-supermarket brands, Chinese herbs, and probiotics, to get his condition under control. Luckily, price hasn’t been a problem for me.
Until you have a dog that has a chronic stomach condition you really should not judge the “quality” of the diet that works to control the condition. Rather, you need do what works for the individual dog.
I’d very happily buy a “better” quality dog food for my dog, but it would aggravate his condition. If the z/d diet woks to control my dog’s medical condition, then it’s the best diet I can provide him.

Gordon,

“I guess I’ll have to specify after each comment whether my sarcasm was apparent or not, lol.” Nah, as long as you don’t mind me clarifying if I am not sure!!!

Yes, you do think outside the square (we say box in the US ) and that is one reason I like you so well..

Are you being playful, Toxed? I’m finding it hard to read you? Why would I fall over just because you agreed with my comment? I’m not here to win a game. I just like providing my 2 cents worth from both empirical and academic experiences (Academic in the way of books I’ve read, not in the way of any animal related qualifications).

I just read you’re asking me the same question, Shawna. No, I wasn’t being sarcastic in case that what you meant about reading into me? Granted that I have a knack of being sarcastic, but to confirm in this occasion, I was actually literally being serious about your advice re the liver. For all I know, you may have come across and experienced that before or read extensively about it. So I was actually being genuine.

Unfortunately, it’s hard when one just reads text but can’t glean the emotion behind it sometimes, due to not being able to see the writer’s facial expression, lol.

I also really did mean to follow your advice re the liver, because it is an unfortunate fact that there is just too many ordinary, and lack luster vets out there, misdiagnosing complexities, that requires thinking outside of the square. You do this well, as I believe do I, hence I repeat, not being sarcastic and was actually learning extras myself in reading what you had to say. Although, I skimmed through it first, I re-read it again properly.

I guess I’ll have to specify after each comment whether my sarcasm was apparent or not, lol.

Uh ~ good to know!!! Thanks!!

Yowza!! Lots of info posted since last I looked. Good stuff, lots for everyone to think about. My dog had developed vomiting with Orijen 6 fish recently, is now back on Hills Ultra ZD (temporarily, I hope!) and the vomiting has stopped. Hate that stuff, but at least he is getting some calories now.

I may try my own food trial, with various raw meats and see what happens. He was doing so well on Orijen, bit discouraged that he developed an allergy (or intolerance) after about 4 months on it. Maybe that’s my benchmark for him? He can try a new form of protein every 3 months, but not longer? Am even willing to consider having to keep him on part Hills ZD, part better food (raw or otherwise) as a nutritional compromise.

I will give this all some thought…

Hi all!!

Mary Lou—Thank you for all the wonderful compliments!! You are definitely good for my ego.. hee hee

Gordon wrote “I’ve nothing else to offer other than the fact that Mother Nature heals best. Other than that, if Shawna and Toxed say that it is the liver, then it must be the liver.”

I have a really hard time reading you. I’m not sure if you are being dismissive or supportive here? If supportive – Thank you

If dismissive – you might change your mind if you knew what I suggest as necessary to build glutathione, detox the liver and eventually modulate the immune system. I think Toxed would agree with me but might use a different order and suggest additional support different then what I would.?

1. Most important – a species appropriate RAW diet.. Glutathione is not efficiently supplemented. But the precursors which allow the body to make glutathione would be found in raw foods, esp protein – amino acids like cysteine and nutrients.
2. Enzymes to “ensure” the protein eaten is broken down to the amino acids needed to form glut.
3. Probiotics also help in protein digestion, make add’l B vitamins and also help the immune system.
4. Remove as many toxins as able which will allow the glut reserves to build back up.
5. Supportive care can be given as needed. Example – Quercitin is “nature’s antihistamine”.

I’m betting Mary Lou’s and possibly Darlene’s vet, even if getting a second opinion, wouldn’t suggest a raw diet. It appears they haven’t thus far at least.

Gordon ~

Yikes ~ I hope not too poisonous!

You are a crazy man!! I do not eat McDonalds, Burger King, etc. ENJOY!!

No worries, Mary Lou. I’ve nothing else to offer other than the fact that Mother Nature heals best. Other than that, if Shawna and Toxed say that it is the liver, then it must be the liver. Good luck and I hope you come to a resolution sooner than later for Dupree’s sake .

Could the chewing issue also be born out of habit? Perhaps something like the chemist Grannick’s Bitter Apple spray help deter self mutilation? I’m sorry if I have misread anything above as I just skimmed through it. I would also stop all food and start with only one type of RMB to feed it with no added carbs what so ever. Dr.Lonsdale’s clinical experience confirms that dogs can also live a healthy life on RMB’s alone! However, you would only want to do this as the start of an elimination dietary program.

But then I thought you had the problem under wraps weeks ago?

Toxed & Shawna & anyone with suggestions ~

I can see I still have lots of reading to do. Trying to grasp all of this scientific aspect is new to me. Dupree has always been fed well, and I am working on possible toxins in the house. His “huge” stressor is separation anxiety. He hates for “me” to leave him. Whenever we go away, he seems to scratch more. It is especially excessive if I take my granddaughter with me ~ jealousy issue there. When we go away for a trip, and family memeber or petsitter move in, he is a mess. Always chews himself.

Here are his allergies if this helps you help him!! It would be beyond appreciated.

Flea, dog fennel, ragweed, dandelion, goldenrod, plaintain, cypress, melaleuca, pepper, bermuda and johnson grasses. He also tested very low level for these molds ~ aspergillus, rhizopus, phoma, mucor, aureobasidium. Of course, the dermatoligist said you can not test for food allergies unless doing an elimination diet. She did not suggest that at all. With Shawna’s help, we made that decision on our own. I personally think he reacts to chicken, and recently beef. Then, of course, there was the issue of overloading the guy with too much variety. He did not handle that well at all!

I have also observed (recently with diligent observation) the scratching occurs downstairs, and not much upstairs. Other than being left behind downstairs when we leave, I am trying to determine what is different. Upstairs, other than bathrooms and laundry room, it is carpeted. Downstairs there are wood floors and rugs. He had no reaction to wool, dander or dust mites. I am sooooo open for any suggestions!!!!

I know when I leave him for 8 days for our grandson’s birth, even though my husband will be here, I will probably come home to a somewhat chewed pooch.

Shawna has helped beyond immensely!!!! However, Toxed, or anyone else, please jump in if you have any other suggestions. Thank you soooo much!

Toxed identifies the connection — glutathione.

Cysteine, a precursor, is deficient in cooked foods.
http://www.americanhealthcarefoundation.org/allergy-md/GSH.cfm

Hi Mary Lou,
Here are a couple of pieces to the puzzle concerning the liver. Turn them over in your mind and see if they fit. The liver is a major player in detox. Toxins filter through here and it’s where the most glutathione is made and stored. Glutathione is the bodies premeir biochemical detoxer. When exposed to stressors like toxins in either diet or environment, physical trauma or stress, glutathione gets used up. If its used up faster than it can be replaced disease occurs.

Allergies are a sign that glutathione is depleated. When you ask if Dupree has liver issues, I’d say yes, but they may not be recognized as such yet. Feeding Dupree a diet that builds and strengthens the liver is certainly going to help, as is avoiding allergens. Removing toxins will help lessen the burden on the liver.

Here’s one other piece that I got from my vet, when I told him about my glutathione deficiency, and my suspicions about the chlorothalonil applications effecting my ewes. He said that they had a urine test for selenium deficiency that they routinely ran on stock, as glutathione and selenium are linked. Low selenium indicates low glutathione. He prescribed selenium (its controlledmas too much can kill em) for my ewes. If Dupree’s vet would do a selenium check, and if it’s low adjust it. That will certainly help the liver. Most feed is selenium deficient now due to modern farming practices. Not very many vets check it for dogs. Let me know what he says if you ask him.

Makes perfect sense aimee!!!!

Evangers did come to mind when I first read your post.. Just didn’t think it was as wide spread as may truly be… Very disturbing. Makes me glad I raw —– hmmmm.. Commercial raw, I suppose, could have the same issues… grrrrr Might have to figure a way to go back to completely home prepared..??

Thanks for the info.

Thanks, Shawna ~ I started the milk thistle yesterday; so we shall see how that helps. I’ll email you tomorrow.

I honestly think that vets do the very best they have been “trained” to do..

I know you respect Dr. Becker — her take on allergies (the entire article is really good)
“Pets tend to develop immune system over-reactions to the foods they have over-consumed!

Nutritional variety is not only the spice of life, it’s critical for a balanced and healthy immune response — and for keeping your pet allergy-free.

Giving your pet a 3 month break (minimum) from previously consumed proteins and starches is a terrific way to begin the healing process and reduce inflammation, which leads to annoying symptoms.

For dogs I suggest you start with a detoxifying dietary elimination diet: stop all foods and treats containing chicken, beef, corn, wheat, rice, soy, millet and oats.” http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2009/12/16/how-should-you-treat-pet-allergies.aspx

Dr. Becker doesn’t specifically state the liver BUT what is the major detoxifying organ of the body — the liver (and she does mention “detoxifying”.

That’s why I keep bringing up Milk Thistle, Spirulina and other things — to help with detoxing.. I’m sure it was (is) beginning to sound like a broken record ..

When Audrey started developing allergies Dr Cameron DVM suggested I give her Canine Hepatic Supper whole foods nutraceuticals (and recommended Enteric Support to help heal her gut but I was already addressing that).

Hmmm ~ so why do the vets put a band aid on his problems rather than addressing issues with his liver? Neither his regular vet, nor the dermatologist, have ever mentioned anything about his liver. Would a holistic vet really be the only one to have this knowledge?

So are you saying Dupree has issues with his liver?

I agree with aimee about blood testing not being accurate… False positives and false negatives are apparently quite common.

Aimee, I had no idea dog food companies could include foods not listed on their ingredient panel? Do you believe this to be true?

Allergies from a holistic viewpoint —- several things have to happen for allergies to occur.
1. The proteins in the food get to the colon undigested. The immune system recognizes amino acids but not proteins. If proteins are being digested properly there is less chance that they can trigger an allergy.
2. The liver has to be stressed which in turn amps up the immune system. The immune systems doesn’t OVER REACT unless it is compromised to begin with.
3. The gut wall has to be “permeable” for the proteins to get through to the blood. “Proteins” are too large to pass thru the gut wall when the gut is not inflammed.

It is believed that certain foods can cause gut permeability (leaky gut). These foods are gluten grains (wheat, barley & rye — wheat and barley are the common ones in dog foos but I have seen rye too), dairy products, soy products and corn products. These are the big 4 but nightshade vegetables (tomatoes & potatoes have lectins which can also cause problems).

In addition to foods, certain drugs can cause gut inflammation and lead to permeability — examples are non-sterioidal anti-inflammatory drugs and steroids. Toxins can also cause gut permeability as can a yeast overgrowth or a giardia infection.

Food intolerances can also cause inflammation — gluten intolerance as an example. If the same food (NOT just the same protein) is eaten day in and day out AND is causing inflammation, eventually that food will cause enough inflammation that undigested proteins can leak thru and cause an allergie.

My Pom came to me with an intolerance to chicken.. If I feed her chicken more then 3 days in a row she develops colitis (inflammation of the colon). She also gets colitis from NSAIDs like Metacam and Rimadyl.. She came to me (at 6 months) with a broken leg and horrific colitis. I think the NSAIDs given for the broken leg damaged her colon and she was eating a chicken based kibble at the time.

I see Darlene. So you got it confirmed via veterinary tests.

OK, what if you don’t feed any eggs, but say, you feed just one raw chicken wing, where you can buy at any butchers, chicken place, or supermarket. Then watch for the allergic symptoms. Should none occur, then you will know that there is no allergy to chicken meat itself, at least. Sometimes vets are narrow visioned in their recommendations because most conventional thinking vets have kibble written all over their brain when it comes to considering diet.

I always recommend feeding a piece of the very raw meat that it is suspected a dog may be allergic to, as a sure fire way to confirm.

Darlene,

Oops! The posts are on the Taste of the Wild review.

Darlene – May I ask how you know for certain, that your dog has poultry protein allergies?

Hi Sandy,

My dog has several allergies, food and otherwise. His main food allergy is poultry related (eggs and meat). My thought is to prevent future allergies. He is currently on Orijen 6 Fish.

Could anyone give me some more detailed information on a LID rotation diet (how to implement, how many foods to keep in rotation and so forth)? Sorry if that information is already elsewhere here. I want to make sure my dog doesn’t develop new food allergies, while benefiting from good quality foods.
Thanks!

Gordon, now I can see that they are Parrots. Are they in a cage? The black lines threw me off. The black lines looked like sear marks on meat. lol

Michelle, it is a pic of my 2 South American conure parrots. It’s too bad that gravatar don’t enable a pic enlarger when hovering over the pic with the mouse. It looks nothing like what you said to me, but then again, that’s ’cause I know what they are. So I can see why it looks like what you said.

Steve, I just took a look at the ingredients in this food. I would not feed this to my dog. If you read Mike’s review of this food, that will explain why. Anyway, if your dog is having a yeast overgrowth problem, instead of a food allergy, all the potato in this food is just going to exacerbate the problem. If I were you, I would buy a grain and potato free food for your dog, and see if that clears up the itches. Two brands I would suggest are Back to Basics, and Brothers complete.

Hi Steve – Perhaps your dog’s allergies are not food related. It would be more inclined to be an environmental one. However, if your vet thinks its the food, then who’s to say that it isn’t?

I would not say to you, to discount what your vet’s professional advice to you is. However, I can comfortably say that the dog’s natural ancestral diet consists of more meat than not. If you ever wanted to take a chance, I would recommend you try a good quality commercial RAW diet. Many people don’t know how to compile a properly balanced home made raw diet. Otherwise, this would be your best option. But the good news is, a list below shows some top quality raw diets that would in all probability, help contain if not rid your dog of its allergies.

Bravo Balance Dog Food (Raw)
Darwin’s Natural Selections (Raw Frozen)
Nature’s Variety Raw Frozen Diets (Raw)
Paw Naturaw Organic (Raw)
Primal Raw Frozen Formulas (Raw)
Primal Raw Frozen Grinds (Raw)
Primal Raw Frozen Mixes (Raw)
Stella and Chewy’s Raw Frozen (Raw)
Steve’s Real Food (Dehydrated)
Steve’s Real Food (Raw Frozen)
Wysong Archetype (Dehydrated)
ZiwiPeak Daily Dog (Dehydrated)

I tried many high quality commercial diets, including LID, over the years and my dog has done best on z/d ultra. Thanks to z/d ultra and Atopica he is in excellent health. His coat is thicker than it has ever been. (He’s 9 now and I adopted him at 2.) I would rather not pay the high cost of this food, or have the inconvience of having to special order the food. However, the visits to the vet are much less frequent, so the cost is somewhat mitigated.
Interesting to read the comments that complain about yucky stools with this diet. My dog’s stool actually went from being large, loose, and covered in jelly to being, small, solid, and well formed.

While I appreciate the basis for which you determined the quality of the food, I believe you are overlooking a very important detail- this is a prescription dog food. My dog, Chloe, is highly allergic to meat products. While I wouldn’t feed this food to my other dog (she can safely eat meat products without adverse effects), it is essential for Chloe to have a food such as this. My biggest complaint here is that because you have given a very biased opinion of the food based on content WITHOUT acknowldging the fact that it is specifically designed for dogs that can’t handle animal protiens, you have caused pet owners to second guess their vets’ advice. My dog has had chronic ear infections that bleed from eating animal protiens. This food is saving her from being in constant pain and discomfort. Obviously it’s not appropriate for all dogs- that’s why it is a prescription. You really need to acknowledge the reason for the lack of certain ingredients and stop scaring owners from giving their dogs what they need. And if you don’t think you are scaring people off of this food- just look at the people who have commented they want advice from you instead of vistening to their experienced vets.

Hi Patty M-

Your dog is allergic to all animal protein? Since you state ‘all animal protein” I am assuming you have had him tested-what was listed??

Hi,
I had my severely allergic Bichon/Shih Tzu blood tested for allergies years ago. He has 32 allergies, including pollens, cotton and various food items (all poultry, dairy and several others). He was on ZD Ultra for several years, but I became aware of the low quality ingredients and decided to switch to (after much research) Orijen 6 fish. It really, really helped to have a list of his allergens. I was able to compare ingredients on line with this list until I found Orijen 6 Fish.
I would suggest to people struggling with an allergic dog that they consider testing, by whatever method their vet feels works best. Also worth being aware that dogs are often allergic to multiple items and not just food. Finding a food they are not allergic to is only one tool that helps keep them below their “itchy threshold” and comfortable.
Other things that help are oatmeal dog shampoo baths when the dog’s skin gets a bit oily to the touch (followed by an oatmeal dog coat conditioner). The idea is to keep the skin at an ideal moisture and bacteria level while not drying out the skin. EFA’s are essential for these dogs. Clean the ears once a week with a vet approved product, that really helps keep ear organisms that can overgrow when the dog is itchy from getting out of control. Wash the paws as needed (when they get itchy) with hibitane (from your vet) and let the hibitane sit for several minutes before thorough rinsing. Make sure you get it between all the toes and pads front and back. It’s always about keeping the dog in balance and below that threshold. Speaking from 8 years with an itchy pup, he’s a great dog and worth all the effort, I even get compliments from vets on how good his skin and ears are (have to toot my own horn here, feel like I’ve earned it!). He is on allergy shots, as I understand it, they help about 70 percent of dogs to varying degrees. They help Bandit, anyway, he is slightly more itchy for a few days after his shots then much better.
Orijen 6 Fish is working very well so far, in fact, he is less itchy than usual for summer time when all the pollen is out, which makes me wonder if an ingredient of the ZD was creating a problem. I’m not a vet, but my experience has taught me that it is possible to convert an allergic dog to a good quality food, if you are careful IMHO, anyway.
Allergic dogs teach you patience…

Robin, I’d go ahead and try Natural Balance LID. Do the Potato and Duck or the Sweet Potato and Bison. See if there is any positive effect. I’ve seen a nuber of dogs clear up on NB LID. Plus, your dog’s allergies may not be food, anyways.

Our vet has recommended this food for a foster of ours as a LID as he has tremendous allergies and she said that other vendors that provide LIDs (like Natural Balance) do not do a full clean between batches of food, which can result in contamination. However…this ingredient list is not impressive to me. Does anyone know if a company like NB, or Orijen, or other quality food does a full clean between batches? He has improved on this food FWIW.

JT- that definitely sounds like a flea allergy (and possibly airborne) to me based on my (non-medical) experience with dogs…I’ve had about 50 fosters and a few had flea allergy and one flea bite literally just makes them a mess for weeks. Only way to keep them away for good is with something like Sentinel or the new Conformix ( i think that is the name)… start with a capstar to kill the current, flea treat your house, and then go to sentinel or conformix. did you discover what it is?

do you think maybe keeping your GSD on a rotation of high quality foods would help? it seems like your dog does good for a little while on the food, then goes back to her poor skin. do you think switching when symptoms surface would help? just an idea that may be more cost-effective. our golden retriever has always had poor skin (yeast, rotting, etc.) and terrible ear infections. we purchased one 35 pounder of the sceince diet your vet discussed, and for him it actually made things worse. we tried california natural, and then dug deeper and found completely grain free. Taste of the Wild Wetlands has helped him dramatically. though it isn’t 100% cured, it’s able to be controlled now. good luck!

My dog Griffin was just prescribed this food by the vet teaching hospital at UGA. I took him there on referral from my vet due to chronic diarrhea that we’ve been unable to get in check. He was evaluated and found to have IBD, which is so chronic that his intestines have thickened, causing him to be unable to digest nurtients and protein. He was hospitalized because his protein levels were critical. He also had a cardiac sonigram to confirm his leaky heart valve and was switched to potassium bromide from phenobarbital. They prescribed this food for him because he needs a baseline diet for a couple of months to reduce the inflammation and then we can start adding items back. I hate this company and think this food looks like junk. Griffin has been eating Taste of the Wild Salmon flavor for a couple of years, but obviously it’s been causing him problems. Are there any other prescription diets that have the proteins broken down like this one, that are made with better ingredients by a more reputable company? Thanks!

Sparky,

Might consider Natural Balance LID Sweet Potato and Chicken formula for starters. It has chicken as a single source protein and sweet potato. No grains, sawdust or BHA. And transition very very slowly. No need to rush, even if it takes over a month or two.

I have a 101/2 year old West Highland Terrier who has been
suffering from the following allergy symptoms: licking the hair off of her paws; nibbling on her nails/paws/stomach; often scooting on rough surfaces, causing a bald spot on the base of her tail & inflaming her rectal area; developing sore spots on her stomach/back/neck. She has been treated with
penicillin/steroids/Hot Spot Spray/Oatmeal & perscription shampoos/Diet Z/D Dry Dog Food. Within days, she will be subjected to an allergy test to determine what is causing the
above symptoms. I need some feedback from others who
have experienced some of these problems with their pets.

I have a Maltese that’s about to turn 8 this month. He’s always been a picky eater. I feed him Hill’s Prescription Diet z/d. I would like to change his food since running into this website. What would be good to change to that’s good with dogs with allergies?

Thanks for the post Kate. You wrote exactly what i was just thinking. People are being misled, L I D or novel protein diets are not hypoallergenic.

Hi Mary, I see from your story that you haven’t tried a true Limited Ingredients Diet rotation yet… There are several brands that make Limited Ingredients Diets, but the one I usually recommended (based on price, availability, variety of proteins, and actual experience with) is Natural Balance LID’s. You could get a bag of Potato and Duck, transition your pup to it for the previous food, and if it works, then when that bag is done transition to the Sweet Potato and Venison or Bison or which ever… you get the point. If this works for and extended period of time, then you know it was a food allergy. But as Roger noted, do not rule out environmental allergies too!

i try to always read as much as i can about the food i feed. this area is so confusing. has anyone here watched the video that is shown on iamscruelty.org ?? what is going on in this video?? i would never, ever buy any product from this company.

I’ve read an entire page of comments with Deborah, Mike, Jonathon and others regarding the Hills Z/D prescription food and appreciate all the info. However, I still have concerns and hope someone can help with some advice. I have a 4-year old German Shepherd, Jonny, that has recurring ear or yeast infections. I’ve taken her to the vet numerous times. Her mother had the same problem. The vet gives me Otomax for inside the ears and sometimes an antibiotic. The ears clear up within a day or two and begin to look really good and she’s no longer in discomfort. I use an ear cleaning solution from the vet like once a week. However, within a month, the same thing starts. She gets this black waxey junk in her ears and the ear becomes red and sore. The vet thought it could be food related and suggested I remove corn products. She also chews the bottom of her feet, like a little kid chewing their nails until she has these little bumps below where her pads are. The vet said also signs of allergy. I switched to Premium Edge Dog food. This seemed to help for awhile but eventually the problem resurfaced. I then heard that Premium Edge Skin and Coat would help. It did for while. Finally, after alot of research, I decided to try making homemade dog food. I use meat (chopped or ground chicken, beef, venison or turkey), barley, brown rice, lentils, split peas, green beans, apples, pears, potatoes, carrots and sweet potatoes. The mixture is 1/3 meat, 1/3 grains and 1/3 fruit/veggie combo. She loves the food and it looked like I had found the solution… After a month or so, the same problem. She currently has another vet appointment. Last appointment he recommended Science prescription food (Z/D). At $82 for 35 pounds, it’s going to be very costly. While anything that can help eliminate her discomfort is worth it, are there any other cheaper options you guys can think of for the problems I’ve described? Appreciate any help you can give me. Thanks! Mary

I have heard of a few people who feed Hills Z/D for allergies. I have one with allergies – he is on Wellness SFS and it is a help plus regular bathing. However, when I saw BHA and the poor quality of ingredients Of Hills- I refuse to feed this even if it did help his allergies. We need to be as diligent with our dogs food as we do our own.
And as for Dr. Hawkins – she is WAY out of line attacking you Mike. I could not believe the things posted. It is a known fact and I have seen it over and over in our moves – with different veterinarians – they always carry/sell the worse possible dog food. Obviously nutrition is NOT taught in vet schools. However, now there are a number of good holistic vets now who DO advise on good nutrition – my hat is off to them.
Also a healthy dog does not require visits to the vets other than a yearly check – so thus they loose money.
I have checked out the link in here for hypoallergy foods and will try to figure out which one is best to try for my guy. The thing that bothers me with Wellness SFS is it starts out with ground rice and has no veggies. I do supplement my dogs food with sweet potato and veggies and this is a thumbs up with my vet. Who buy the way sells Hills.
Keep up the good work Mike – the majority of us do appreciate what you are doing !

Just want to put in my two cents. I own a 2 year-old Shih-tzu mix. He’s had bad allergies pretty much since we got him at 8 weeks of age. We started him on Wellness puppy mix, which we thought was a very high quality food, but after doing some research and observing much discomfort (itching)in our little guy, we switched to a premium grain-free food (Orijen) and had him allergy tested at the vet.
Well, after an allergy test and a year of shots and daily Atopica, as well as five different high quality grain-free foods rotated on an 8-10 week basis (he was on Orijen, Acana grain-free, Before Grain Buffalo, Natural Balance LID Buffalo/Sweet Potato Formula, and Nature’s Variety Instinct Duck/Turkey Meal Formula), we have seen very little imporvement in his symptoms.
He continues to chew/lick his paws, incesantly scratch his armpits/ears/chin, and rub his face into any peice of carpet he can find. Our vet says these continued symptons, especially in the absence of most of his tested environmental allergens (it has been winter for the last 5 months here in Canada, after all) indicate a food allergy or intolerance.
We are wanting to try feedin raw, but, in a small community of only 50,000, we can’t find a retailer who sells a pre-made raw product like Urban Carnivore or Spring Meadows, and I am not able (or willing, I suppose) to make the commitment of putting together a completely raw menu on my own and buying chicken backs and raw meaty bones from my butcher.
Soooo……we are trying the Hill’s Z/D for 8 weeks. Just to see if his symptoms decrease. Right now we just want to confirm that his discomfort is due to a food allergy/intolerance. I understand we are feeding a low quality food, and am not happy about it, but not sure what else to try at this point. The Atopica is not cheap, and only partially helps (if we forget a dose, we all have a hellish night with no sleep), and nothing else has alleviated his symptoms. If this food does do the trick, we will still get him off it as quick as possible, but at this point we are hoping that it will at least let us definatively attribute his condition to a food allergy/intolerance.
If this food does that for us, then I can’t say it’s all bad. Overall, however, I could not agree more that it is sad to see such low overall quality ingredients used, when the only prima facie logical reason for not using higher quality ingredients is profit. I suppose this doesn’t differentiate much from what all of us probalby should be vigilant about in the foods we consume. The difference, however, is that we have a choice, while our pets do not.

John,

The drug Atopica has worked miracles for severely allergic dogs . It is expensive however and a prescription is needed.

My Springer has had very bad allergies since he was 6 months old. I have tried everything, including various antihistamines, allergy shots, supplements, foods (deer, etc). The only thing that worked for him was prednisone, which I hate to give him, but now limit it to 5mg every other day (which is very low). From 2 to 9 years old, I fed him ZD Ultra. It seemed to help his allergy very slightly, but was very expensive. 2 years ago, he had a severe IMHA condition (which I and several vets including a prominent vet teaching hospital) am pretty sure was caused by either excessive extended dosing of the common antibiotic Cephalexin or from the 5-in-1 annual vaccines. I was very fortunate that he survived (it was a 16 month daily battle for his life). Since then, I started studying pet food ingredients and was shocked at the laws (or lack of) that these foods have to meet. I was amazed to see the poor ingredients in ZD Ultra. Hills claims that by hydrolyzing the ingredients, dogs systems can’t recognize the proteins (which commonly cause allergies in some dogs). I agree that they could hydrolyze better quality ingredients (especially for the outrageous price they charge). By marketing these foods as “prescription”, they are ensuring they get top dollar for them, even though there are no medical ingredients in them. In addition to the cheap ingredients, ZD Ultra used to contain Ethoxyquin (actually added by Hills, in addition to the possible addition of this pesticide by their meat suppliers). I was pissed that I had been paying the vet for a prescription and paying outrageous prices for ZD, only to find out that it contained crappy ingredients and pesticides. My Springer now gets Orijen and I am extremely happy with it – the price is much better than ZD Ultra, the ingredients are high quality and fit for human consumption and it seems to help his allergies as much as ZD Ultra did. In addition, Orijen doesn’t add ethoxyquin and their suppliers are certified ethoxyquin free. Since it is a law that fishermen catching fish for animal feed add ethoxyquin, Orijen gets obtains “fit for human consumption” fish, which (by law) are not allowed to contain ethoxyquin. Thanks Mike, for this site and for educating the public, who has been lied to by the pet food industry (in the name of profit) for years. By educating the public, you are encouraging pet food suppliers to produce quality products. As for the DVM on this page… I have had excellent vets and terrible vets. As long as doctors continue to receive perks, kick-backs, and profits off of pharmaceuticals and prescription only products, the public can only guess that their doctor is acting in the best interest of the patient and not in the interest of profit for themselves and the pharmaceutical companies. I assume that you are a good and caring vet, but as long as these corporations continue to have these types of unethical relationship with doctors, doubts will always exist with patients and the advice given by their doctors. BTW, why is ZD Ultra available by prescription only? The only answer I have come across is so that a particular dog doesn’t become used to the ingredients and have a loss of allergy effectiveness, but this sounds like a load of crap to me.

Jonathan, It just so happens that for several years my brother hauled all of the cooked grain from Busch gardens and at that time the Schlitz breweries in Tampa Florida. He sold this grain to local dairies for the cows. These cows were 20% more productive than regular grain fed cows, and fat and happy.
What is the difference in you eating raw rice and cooked rice?
I don’t think you would have much luck digesting raw rice. When you cook it do you lose the nutrients?

You mentioned the dog being a carnivore. You need to read the last post to Mike where I explain what the preference in wild dogs is. They are omnivores and their first preference is the stomach contents of grazing animals, such as rabbits and small deer, which is vegetation.

But regardless have you ever seen this product put into the food? NO, and until one of us does it is all hear-say.
Dr H

Yes Kyle, you are absolutely right, and how many politicians did they have in their pocket. The whole thing was criminal.

The research I am referring to had nothing to do with the food quality or any cudos for the company. Very few people will ever be aware of the studies. They do it for both animal welfare and eventually for human welfare. We were testing nutritional effects on cancer cells and attempting to identify some combination of nutrients to slow the growth in of cancer cells in one part, and the nutritional and caloric needs of chronically ill patients in another. Feeding a critically ill patient is paramount in saving their life.

Dr. H

Phillip Morris spent millions of dollars on “research” to prove that cigarettes are actually safe. And heck, it was RJ Reynolds that pioneered the “Doctor Recommended” advertising. 4/5 doctors smoke Camels, y’know?

I think it’s unethical for any company with financial stake to do research under the guise of objectivity. Science Diet paid for millions of dollars of research that, lo and behold, found their product to be excellent.

If anything is a fly-by-night business practice, Dr. Hopkins, it is that.

I do not think any of us know the quality of the ingredients. I haven’t visited the plant, have you? Or for that matter has Mike? I thing you are assuming the ingredients are inferior based on what someone that has never seen beaks or any of the other items mentioned go into the food, and none of us know this to be fact. It is all hear-say. When I was at the University of Illinois for my clinical year, Purina was spending millions researching cancer diets, yet people say purina is terrible food. Science Diet also spends millions in research yet we are hving this discussion. I just maintain that I will believe the ones that put their money where their mouth is and not the Fly by night companies that jump in with research that SD and purina have pioneered.
Dr. H

Jonathan, Thanks for your apology, I also used to run a pet supply store, so I can appreciate where you are coming from.

Food is always going to be an issue and each of us must recommend based on the individual animal. As for me I do not trust every Johnny come lately trying to capitalize on the pet food industry. I am always going to go with the most researched and tested foods. And yes I am looking for results, NOT money. I have had dogs with stinking rotten scabby skin and only put them on Z/D ultra and they now look like show dogs. NO kidding, no antibiotics, no antifungals, no steroids. This works only if their problem is a food allergy. I have been using the product since it came on the market and I haven’t had one die of cancer either.

So we will call it a day and let it go.

Good luck in your business, and have a good day.
Dr. H

And I’m sure you mean well, too.

First off, I’d like to apologize. I didn’t mean to come off as if I was insulting your schooling and the time and effort you have put into becoming a Vet. My point was to question WHO taught you specifically about dog nutrition. I know you can open up a dog and remove things and fix things, and that blows my mind. But I am also aware that the specific subject of nutrition, just like with people doctors, is not taught at any length without specialising in the field. I don’t trust my doctor I go to when I have a score throat to also give me a healthful diet plan or figure out why I have acid reflux. It’s not his area. And he knows that, and accordingly, would send me to a nutritionist or a gastroenterologist. So please don’t take any disrespect, as it was not meant.

Now getting back to Hill’s foods. First of all, no one here is questioning the quality of hydrolyzed chicken. The question I have is, why use potato product? And as the first ingredient? It’s a low quality version of potato. And it’s a low quality protein source for a carnivore. And for the matter, there is hardly any protein to speak of in this food. We understand that a lot of unusable protein (like shoe leather) is not better than a little usable protein. Neither Mike nor I suggested that. Just the opposite, I aways look for fresh meats and named meat meals at the top of a dog food’s listed ingredients. Hill’s foods, as a group of products, use some of the worse sources of proteins. Chicken by-product meal, corn gluten meal, soybean meal. These are the main ingredients in most of Hill’s products. Chicken by-products include beaks, feet, and all sorts of things that have “protein” but are not actually usable. And plant based proteins are simply less biologically usable for a carnivore.

As far as BHA goes, I don’t put that crap in my body. I read human food labels, too. I don’t buy that it’s “safe”. The FDA says that it is GRAS, or “Generally Recognized As Safe”. They apply that creepy term to aspartame as well, which causes awful problems in so many people that doctors have begun calling their symptoms “aspartame disease”. I don’t trust the FDA. They can be bought and sold. Corporations with too much money and too little sympathy for fellow man (and beast!) will do anything, buy anyone, and tell any lie to make sure their products are sold. “GRAS” means, “why yes, if you get too much of this, it will kill you… but you probably won’t eat that much of it based on the averages.” How about we just don’t ingest these dangerous chemicals at all?

And by the way, as a manager of a pet supply store, I know all about overhead, cost, expiration loss, etc. you see, at a pet supply store, most of the foods we sell have very little profit margin. Most of them are less than 20%. Which means, if we were just selling the food itself, it wouldn’t cover the cost of the building, the labor to run the place, etc. It’s the food that gets people in the store, but the real profit is made on the toys, treats, and accessories. Now with so-call “prescription” foods, it’s a different type of margin. I say “so-called” because there is no FDA regulation governing the requirement of a prescription for a pet food that does not contain controlled substances, and rather, the entire idea of a “prescription” food is the invention of the manufacturer and implies nothing more than an agreement to only sell the product through veterinarians. That way, the profit margin can be kept absurdly high, particularly when you consider the low quality, cheap ingredients used so prolifically in all their foods. If you are not benefiting from that, then you may wish to have a word with your Hill’s distributor.

Mike, and Johnathan,
I am sure you mean well, although your research is flawed.
First we need to clarify that the food you are referring to is Z/D Low allergin, and the food I prescribe is Z/D Ultra.

This food does not contain potato. The major source of protein is hydrolyzed chicken, as is the milk protein in Infamil and Good Start, which of course are human baby formulas’. This process renders the protein invisible to the immune system. This diet avoids the most common carbs and proteins seen in allergic dogs. (Potato is rarely seen as an allergen). It has also been tested by AAFCO which is a very expensive food trial.(see the website) If you check the labels on the other diets you mention, most HAVE NOT undergone this trial.

Labeled proteins can be very deceptive. In a demonstration where several protein sources such as beef, chicken and various others were offered and the audience was asked which was the highest protein source, the answer was SHOE LEATHER! Which of course is NOT digestible! This diet is highly digestible. Therefore you CANNOT base your evaluation soley on the ingredient list as this method is flawed. You must also use results and overall health in your research. Look at the research that backs this food!
I would also refer you to the FDA website to see that BHA and BHD are commonly found in human foods such as crackers are considered safe and NOT carcinogenic.
As to Johnathon’s remark about prescribing it based on results pretty much says it all, dosen’t it? As for the other foods he mentioned my clients have tried these exact foods themselves with horrendous results on their dogs’ skin. I might also mention that based his comments about the mark up in the food, he has very little business knowledge. Does he think the floor space committed to carrying these foods is free? Or for that matter the payroll, and the expiration losses are free. Most veterinarians including myself consider the foods a net loss to our practice.
In closing I will say that my patient’s health is my NUMBER ONE priority, and I would NEVER prescribe anything knowingly harmful to them, contrary to what you both are saying. I know this product to be SAFE and effective and if more people would place their allergic dog on it they could save themselves a great deal of money and their animals a great deal of discomfort. It is unfortunate that you are perhaps causing a great deal of harm to any client or animal if they believe what you are putting out there.
DrH

This review is a JOKE! I prescribe this diet routinely with amazing results. These dogs can be maintained beautifully with shiny coats, plenty of energy, and they love it.
The only problem I see is when the owner feeds foods other than the diet, which is essentially stinging them with the bee.

Please ask your veterinarian. Do not listen to this nonsense.
Dr. H

Hello! When my Rottie was just a year old he got very sick and it was recommended that he be put down. I got a second opinion and we discovered that he has IBS. We have been able to control this problem with diet. He has been eating Hills ZD for the last five years. We have tried over the years to wean him onto other foods but after three or four days he begins to vomit again. He does great on the ZD and I am reluctant to switch. We tried the Honest Kitchen and loved it but it was cost prohibitive. It disturbs me that this food has gotten such a low rating. All this time I thought I was feeding a good quality food. Any other recommendations for a low allergen food for my IBS Rottie?

one of my favorites that is not on this list (because the manufacturer doesn’t claim it’s hypoallergenic) is Wellness Core Ocean Formula. It is very limited in ingredients, the only protein being fish sourced, and it is grain free and low carb, making it a good choice on several levels. It is pricey. If you have a big eater, this stuff is 60 bucks for a 30 pound bag. If you have a smaller dog, it won’t hurt as bad… my mom has a dachshund/shih tzu mix that eats one 14.99 5 pound bag a month.

Our shelter doggy came with many issues, he suffered abuse because previous owners punished him for pooping and peeing everywhere. Through much testing we found out he has a neurological disorder and one of the reasons he was pooping was he couldn’t tell when he needed to go. I worked with him through behavioral modification lots of walks and he holds himself now for the night. A vet recommended the prescription diet low allergen (which he hates so I doctor it up) because the thought was he pooped more frequently because he might be allergic. IS there a more nutritious, natural dog food that I can feed him that might address allergies or should I try just cooking him something homemade?