Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain-Free (Dry)

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Rating: ★★★★½

Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free dry dog food receives the Advisor’s second-highest tier rating of 4.5 stars.

The Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free product line includes six dry dog foods, each claimed to meet AAFCO nutrient profiles for all life stages.

The following is a list of recipes available at the time of this review.

  • Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free Game Bird
  • Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free Beef Frittata
  • Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free Pork and Peas
  • Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free Salmon Tunalini
  • Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free Lamb and Lentils
  • Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free Surf & Turf (5 stars)

Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free Game Bird was selected to represent the other products in the line for this review.

Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free Game Bird

Dry Dog Food

Estimated Dry Matter Nutrient Content

Protein = 32% | Fat = 19% | Carbs = 41%

Ingredients: Duck, duck meal, peas, turkey, russet potatoes, pea protein, dried tomato pomace, pea flour, whole dried egg, quail, chicken meal, chicken fat, salmon oil, sweet potatoes, chicken, pheasant, Wisconsin cheese, flaxseed, carrots, broccoli, cauliflower, apples, celery, parsley, lettuce, spinach, chicken cartilage, potassium chloride, cranberries, blueberries, salt, chicory root extract, Yucca schidigera extract, alfalfa sprouts, sodium selenite, folic acid, taurine, vitamins: vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, choline bitartrate, niacin supplement, d-calcium pantothenate, l-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate, riboflavin supplement, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, biotin, minerals: zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, manganous sulfate, magnesium sulfate, copper sulfate, cobalt carbonate, calcium iodate, sorbic acid (preservative), ferrous proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, magnesium proteinate, manganese proteinate, cobalt proteinate, probiotics: dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Bifidobacterium longum fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product

Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 3.9%

Red items when present indicate controversial ingredients

Estimated Nutrient Content
MethodProteinFatCarbs
Guaranteed Analysis29%17%NA
Dry Matter Basis32%19%41%
Calorie Weighted Basis27%39%34%

The first ingredient in this dog food is duck. Although it is a quality item, raw duck contains about 80% water. After cooking, most of that moisture is lost, reducing the meat content to just a fraction of its original weight.

After processing, this item would probably account for a smaller part of the total content of the finished product.

The second ingredient is duck meal. Duck meal is considered a meat concentrate and contains nearly 300% more protein than fresh duck.

The third ingredient mentions peas. Peas are a quality source of carbohydrates. And like all legumes, they’re rich in natural fiber.

However, peas contain about 25% protein, a factor that must be considered when judging the meat content of this dog food.

The fourth ingredient is turkey, another quality raw product.

After processing, this item would probably account for a smaller part of the total content of the finished product.

The fifth item is potato. Potatoes can be considered a gluten-free source of digestible carbohydrates. Yet with the exception of perhaps their caloric content, potatoes are of only modest nutritional value to a dog.

The sixth ingredient is pea protein, what remains of a pea after removing the starchy part of the vegetable.

Even though it contains over 80% protein, this ingredient would be expected to have a lower biological value than meat.

And less costly plant-based products like this can notably boost the total protein reported on the label — a factor that must be considered when judging the meat content of this dog food.

The seventh ingredient is tomato pomace. Tomato pomace is a controversial ingredient, a by-product remaining after processing tomatoes into juice, soup and ketchup.

Many praise tomato pomace for its high fiber and nutrient content, while others scorn it as an inexpensive pet food filler.

Just the same, there’s probably not enough tomato pomace here to make much of a difference.

The eighth ingredient is pea flour, a powder made from roasted yellow peas. Pea flour contains as much as 25% protein, a factor that must be considered when judging the meat content of this dog food.

The ninth ingredient is whole dried egg, a dehydrated powder made from shell-free eggs. Eggs are easy to digest and have an exceptionally high biological value.

The tenth ingredient includes quail, another quality raw item.

The next ingredient is chicken meal, another protein-rich meat concentrate.

From here, the list goes on to include a number of other items.

But to be realistic, ingredients located this far down the list (other than nutritional supplements) are not likely to affect the overall rating of this product.

With five notable exceptions

First, salmon oil is naturally rich in the prized EPA and DHA type of omega-3 fatty acids. These two high quality fats boast the highest bio-availability to dogs and humans.

Depending on its level of freshness and purity, salmon oil should be considered a commendable addition.

Next, flaxseed is one of the best plant sources of healthy omega-3 fatty acids. Provided they’ve first been ground into a meal, flax seeds are also rich in soluble fiber.

However, flaxseed contains about 19% protein, a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.

In addition, chicory root is rich in inulin, a starch-like compound made up of repeating units of carbohydrates and found in certain roots and tubers.

Not only is inulin a natural source of soluble dietary fiber, it’s also a prebiotic used to promote the growth of healthy bacteria in a dog’s digestive tract.

Next, we note the inclusion of dried fermentation products in this recipe. Fermentation products are typically added to provide enzymes to aid the animal with digestion.

And lastly, this food also contains chelated minerals, minerals that have been chemically attached to protein. This makes them easier to absorb. Chelated minerals are usually found in better dog foods.

Fromm Four Star Nutritionals
Grain Free Dry Dog Food
The Bottom Line

Judging by its ingredients alone, Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free dog food looks like an above average dry product.

But ingredient quality by itself cannot tell the whole story. We still need to estimate the product’s meat content before determining a final rating.

The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 32%, a fat level of 19% and estimated carbohydrates of about 41%.

As a group, the brand features an average protein content of 32% and a mean fat level of 19%. Together, these figures suggest a carbohydrate content of 40% for the overall product line.

And a fat-to-protein ratio of about 60%.

Above-average protein. Above-average fat. And below-average carbs when compared to a typical dry dog food.

When you consider the protein-boosting effects of the pea products, flaxseed and chickpeas (contained in other recipes), this looks like the profile of a kibble containing a moderate amount of meat.

Bottom line?

Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free is a plant-based dry dog food using a moderate amount of named meats and meals as its main sources of animal protein, thus earning the brand 4.5 stars.

Highly recommended.

Please note certain recipes are sometimes given a higher or lower rating based upon our estimate of their total meat content.

Special Alert

Rice ingredients can sometimes contain arsenic. Until the US FDA establishes safe upper levels for arsenic content, pet owners may wish to limit the total amount of rice fed in a dog's daily diet.

A Final Word

The descriptions and analyses expressed in this and every article on this website represent the views and opinions of the author.

Although it's our goal to ensure all the information on this website is correct, we cannot guarantee its completeness or its accuracy; nor can we commit to ensuring all the material is kept up-to-date on a daily basis.

Each review is offered in good faith and has been designed to help you make a more informed decision when buying dog food.

However, due to the biological uniqueness of every animal, none of our ratings are intended to suggest feeding a particular product will result in a specific dietary response or health benefit for your pet.

For a better understanding of how we analyze each product, please read our article, "The Problem with Dog Food Reviews".

Remember, no dog food can possibly be appropriate for every life stage, lifestyle or health condition. So, choose wisely. And when in doubt, consult a qualified veterinary professional for help.

In closing, we do not accept money, gifts or samples from pet food companies in exchange for special consideration in the preparation of our reviews or ratings.

To learn how we support the cost of operating this website, please visit our public Disclosure and Disclaimer page.

Have an opinion about this dog food? Or maybe the review itself? Please know we welcome your comments.

Other spellings: Fromms

Notes and Updates

10/01/2010 Original review
04/16/2014 Last Update

  • JudyandSam Simpson Norris

    I would stick with Fromm or Castor & Pollux Grain free. Try Fromm Lamb & Lentils. Are you sure she’s not allergic to grass, something environmental…..

  • JudyandSam Simpson Norris

    Mine eat Lamb & Lentils and love it !! I also buy Castor & Pollux UltraMix Grain free and mix both bags together in a container so they get a variety. Mine tend to get tired of the same old thing. I do buy the different flavors of both foods every -2- months. They just rotated last month from Beef Fritatta

  • JudyandSam Simpson Norris

    I would go with Lamb and Lentils. That’s what mine are on and they like it.

  • Barbara

    Both my GSDs are on the Lamb and Lentil from Fromm. They both love it and we have not had any problems at all. My younger one has very itchy, flaky skin, this is gone on the Fromm. Our older one is very picky and she really just loves this food. They have been on it for about 2 months now..I would recommend it…

  • aquariangt

    the pork and pea also has no potatoes. People who try to follow the food energetics idea say that pork is the least allergy prone of the major protein sources. I like the pork and pea, but as Daniel said, Beef has the least carbs, so it depends where the issues are coming from. I’d probably try Pork and Pea first

  • Daniel

    According to the Fromm website, the Beef Frittata has the least amount of carbs.

  • RPK

    I should also mention that I want to get him on the best Fromm diet with the least carbs/starch since those seem to cause yeast infections in his ears. Which food meets that criteria the best?

  • RPK

    What is the difference health-wise between the Beef frittata and the Pork & Peas? My dachshund/terrier mix has been having itchy issues while on various foods and I am thinking of trying one of these out. I wondered if dogs were more sensitive to Pork or Beef and if it would be better to start with one or the other? Any thoughts on which protein source is a better bet to go with between those two?

  • Sara

    One of my dogs is eating the Lamb & Lentil and doing great on it. Our new dog had been itching so I switched him from the Pork & Applesauce (that is what my other dogs have eaten for years). I believe the calorie concentration is lower than the other varieties – I had to up the amount I am feeding him to maintain weight. But he has quit itching, coat looks wonderful and energy is good.

  • Janice Place

    We have had our rescue dog, Sally for 8 years. She is part shepard/chow, with terrible skin issue’s. We have spent thousands’s of dollar’s for blood panels’s, shot, pills everything. I did day’s of research, finally we settled on Acana grain free. This worked. I couldn’t believe it!! You can rotate, it is made in Canada. What a blessing, for us all!! Never a recall.

  • denise0331

    My dog Clover has gone on strike with any food that has chicken (and sometimes turkey) in it. I got many samples and she seems to like Fromm lamb and lentils. Does anyone else’s dog eat it? What do you think? We have been Acana fans and customers
    before this.

  • Charkleroad

    Got samples for the Duck and Sweet Potatoes. My dog loves it! However, he is extremely thirsty afterwards. Just wonder if anyone knows the salt content of this food?

  • swak

    richarddarlington.com

    ddl nsnsn

  • Tara Clancey Edwards

    oohwee.. when we gave our dogs yogurt one got REALLY stinky gas.. and the other got diarrhea. I’d recommend switching to a probiotic supplement, too. One vet recommended we try prostora max. It is working well and even cleared up our one pups weeping eyes. Another Vet (long story) recommended a pancreatic enzyme. We’re trying that next. no fillers and less expensive per dose.

  • SandyandMila
  • Sindy

    That’s good to know. I’m about to start my cats and dogs on Fromm after reading great reviews. I like to add can food with the dry for them. I like that fromm can doesn’t contain carageenan in it. Heard it might be cancerous. I also give my Dog some human food from time to time as a treat.

  • Sindy

    My cat had diabetes and apple cider vinegar helped him a lot. Uti are common with diabetes. I also read great things about turmeric and colloidal silver but do your reaserch on it before. Look for a hollistic vet in your area.

  • Nicole

    Hi Ashley! Have you tried giving your pup D-Mannose? It’s a sugar that is not utilized by the body (so it won’t cause problems) and is excreted in the urine. In the urinary tract, harmful bacteria are attracted to this sugar, attach themselves to it, and are then eliminated from the body. My dog hasn’t had a UTI since I started supplementing her (and she would get them frequently). Here’s the link:
    http://www.entirelypets.com/cranberrydmannose.html

    As far as food goes, I can’t help you there since I don’t have any knowledge on it. Good luck to you and your pup…I know those issues are tough to deal with!

  • Boxer mom

    Thanks soooooo much for all your help!

  • theBCnut

    It’s a hidden gem!

  • Boxer mom

    I’m so excited about this lol it’s the little things :) I love coconut oil :)

  • theBCnut

    Yes, just mix it right in. Mine love it.

  • Boxer mom

    Awesome! Thanks so much! They are all 50-68. Do you mix in thier food?

  • theBCnut

    Not the same, but that doesn’t really matter. If you keep them off chicken for a while, then you will know for sure one way or another. When you are trying a different food to see if your dog reacts to it, you may need to keep them on that food for 6-10 weeks before you know for sure if it is helping. And you may have to wait until the meds are cleared out of their system too, but hopefully that will be much sooner.

  • theBCnut

    Grain free low carb does help some dogs, but not all. It’s important to increase water consumption to flush out the bladder more frequently. Struvite crystals frequently form in the presence of bacteria, so watch for signs of a bladder infection.

  • theBCnut

    Coconut oil is 1 teaspoon per 20 pounds of body weight.

  • Boxer mom

    ;( I don’t know exactly yet. Vet said more than likely environmental but could be chicken. At this point she is just going by it keeps re occurring. The next appointment is to try to figure out if food or environmental. I think I mentioned this but they are on meds so I have to keep food in their tummies so they can take meds. I hope the Fromm duck n sweet potato helps. They told me that same as earthborn other than Fromm don’t use meat meals and pricier?

  • Boxer mom

    Oh boy, :( I just got Fromm duck n sweet potato to try they told me was better because they use meats and no meals? We love coconut oil in this house but, I have never given it to the dogs. How much do you use and do we put it on food? We use the organic cold pressed. I also got bag of wellness 5star complete mix. Both small bags because I have to find something they will eat. They are on heart meds and need to eat :( now I wish I would have gotten the earthborn!

  • Ashley

    I have a dog that has a history of urinary issues. no stones, just Struvite crystals. Vet initially prescribed SO food. After doing a little research I’m finding that this isn’t necessarily the only option. What about a food that is grain free and low carb?

  • Dog Food Ninja

    Yes, I would suggest EB great plains. I’d also add a good probiotic or plain whole milk yogurt to the diet. Also, coconut oil. Coconut oil actually kills yeasts. Also, try to replace as many kibble calories as you can afford to with fresh raw meats or a formulated raw diet. A processed pellet, regardless of ingredient quality, will never be more healthful than real food.

  • Boxer mom

    So you would suggest earthborn Great Plains formula with bison if have had repeated skin/ear infections? They are picky eaters and I’m having a hard time finding a food they will eat that’s good for them.

  • Boxer mom

    Omar, I’ve been looking to change foods as all 3 of my boxers have stopped eating. They were on royal canin boxer 26. My vet suggested science diet for sensitive stomach and skin. I’m not real happy with that option. The youngest has had repeated ear/skin infections. (To much Yeast)I think I find a good one and then find fritening comments. You seem to be VERY knowledgable would you tell me what you would suggest I try? What do you use? Mine are sensitive to many things as boxers I’m list on what to try ;(

  • Chris

    Hey Nicole! Thanks so much for the advice! I will for sure try that. I’m switching her to Nature’s Variety for something new. It’s good I hear to switch things up a bit. I plan on trying the Chicken & Rice formula first and then Lamb & Rice. If the paw licking isn’t from food, then being on grains is easier. My husband likes taking her to the car wash to get a little treat. I don’t buy those kinds of treats but every once in a while doesn’t hurt…. :)

  • Nicole

    Ooh…another great recommendation! Thank you, thank you! I’m looking forward to trying these formulas…the more options the better. :)

  • Nicole

    Hi Chris! My pup used to chew and lick her paws too, and I wasn’t sure whether it was her food since typically her intolerance manifests itself in vomiting and diarrhea. I started washing her paws after every walk with puppy shampoo, and the chewing and licking completely stopped. This was a huge relief since it was keeping both of us up at night. :) Maybe give it a try and see if it’s something outside that’s causing the reaction…good luck!

  • Storm’s Mom

    Have you looked at Nutrisource Grain Free Lamb? It’s got lamb and salmon.. and is a great value proposition!

  • Nicole

    Thank you for sharing this, Betsy. I am on the hunt for a high-quality lamb or fish-based kibble, so this is another one I can add to my candidacy list. :)

  • Chris

    I have a Mini Goldendoodle and she has been licking and chewing at her paws. She first started on Innova which an Excellent food but was recalled last March. I then started on Fromm Chicken Ala Veg. I can’t remember if she was licking and chewing while on this formula but after talking to my neighbor, I switched to grain free game bird. I know for sure she was chewing and licking on this food. vet recommended changing protein to beef. On that for about 6 months with no change. Innova was based on Chicken and Turkey. She is now on week 2 of Fromm Pork & Peas. Any experience with this type of reaction? Any comments or advise would be much appreciated. Not sure if it’s a protein reaction or if I needed to take her off of grains in the first place. Had thought about switching to Nutrisca. I’ve read some bad stories about that food but most do have at least a couple negative comments.

  • JudyandSam Simpson Norris

    I don’t think it’s expensive at all. When I divide the costs by however many weeks it last, I’m OK with it. I want to feed mine the best I can, especially with my Abbie’s Auto Immune Hemolytic Anemia. I also out a little coconut oil on top for her skin. They started out on Pork & Peas, now they are on Beef Fritatta. She deserves it !!! Better than having to take them to the vet for food disorders.

  • Betsy Greer

    A new Fromm Four Star Grain Free recipe, lamb & lentil is being introduced in April: http://frommfamily.com/products/four-star/dog/dry/grain-free-lamb-lentil

  • theBCnut

    Most 5 star kibbles are still plant based, I believe. So since the other formulas in this line are, I wouldn’t expect this one to be vastly different.

  • Omar D. Plumey

    Is the surf and turf recipe meat or plant based?

  • Fromm

    She is a liar liar pants on fire

  • Shimtu

    Shaawna how about some potatos, gluten or tomatos

  • Gert the clown

    Shaawwnaa please give me some peas

  • doodleowner

    Been using Fromm for 3 years now, mainly the grain free kibble. Our Goldendoodle has been doing great on it ( knock on wood), we will use a topper also – usually Merrick grain-free canned. Her Fromm Favorite is the Surf and Turf but mix with other fromm grain-frees to create a variety. She eats the whole bowl, which she didn’t when we started her on TOTW and Blue Buffalo both of which she stuck her nose up to. Very happy to now be buying from a non-commercial giant and a company that has a genuine care. I have spoken to the folks at Fromm and happy with their overall service and product.

  • Tiffani Hallan

    And the other thing, lots of poop.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    Tanya,

    According to our commenting policy:

    “…the use of multiple identities or other deceptive tactics designed to mislead readers are strictly forbidden.

    So, if we suspect you’re posting fraudulently, be prepared to verify your email address or to confirm your real name by providing your Facebook, Twitter or other established social media identity.”

    In an attempt to contact you directly to request proof of your identity, it was discovered that you are posting here using a fraudulent email address.

    Until I’m convinced you are a legitimate individual working with credible objectives, your recent comments here have been removed. And your posting privileges here have been revoked.

  • Tanya

    And I have to add: ALL of their vitamins are China free too! They all come from Europe and none of their ingredients are from China!!

  • Tanya

    You get what you pay for. They do lots of quality control, use the highest quality of meals and all their meats are medication free. The ingredients are human grade and made in their own factory. There is no third party company involved. Using that kind of quality of ingredients is not cheap but it will pay off on the long run. I had nothing but quality issues with other foods, so this is the only kibble I am using. My dogs have perfect digestion. Often dogs get runny stools on foods because companies use lower grade of meals which makes it difficult to digest. Fromm is easy to digest as their meals are of very high quality.
    Have you checked prices online at different retailers? I buy everything online and usually save lots of money. Prices and sales change too. I usually pay for surf and turf grain free (large bag) $ 2.25 # I don’t think this is very expensive. Their gold line is cheaper.

  • Tiffani Hallan

    Feeding this currently in my rotation. Everything looks good, but I add in things like yogurt and The Honest Kitchen (as a topper). I really like Fromm. Wish it weren’t so expensive, though.

  • Tiffani Hallan

    Try a digestive enzyme. I get a powdered one that I sprinkle over the food and it really helps.

  • taniahunterkothera

    Chevy is a service dog… we got him a year ago for my son with special needs. Prior to coming to live with us he was on Nutrisource Chicken and Rice. We immediately put him on a grain free food and started with a digestive enzyme and probiotics. He had a really bad bout of diarrhea and vomiting.. even on pumpkin and Turkey. Loose mucousy stools. He was on Fromm Surf and Turf and now we have switched him over. I grabbed Earthborn Meadow but also looked at Great Plains and will use that to rotate. Found Zignature Salmon and Trout also. We give Wholistic Digest All Plus along with Phytomucil and 1 tsp Salmon Oil Daily. Raw is not an option for us. My son just finished leukemia treatment and he gets his face licked daily… I will be switching over to coconut oil also… can I give it in addition to the Salmon???? He also reacted to Milk, Venison, Lentils and Quinoa… Thanks for all your great advice.. Just can’t figure out why Fromm is so expensive… they are a great food tho!

  • Dog Food Ninja

    I’m willing to bet your dog isn’t truly allergic to any ingredient. He probably has a leaky gut from either systemic Candida, or damage to the intestinal lining from lectins and gluten in grains. When an animal has leaky gut, proteins can slip undigested into the blood stream, causing the body to create an autoimmune response, thus giving them an “allergy” to the protein. The earthborn suggestion was good… try the great plains formula which is bison and pea based, and add some plain whole milk yogurt for probiotics and some organic coconut oil which can actually kill yeast. I’ve seen this work for many dogs. And once the problem has been under control for a few months, give him a bit of some fresh chicken meat and I bet you he won’t react to it.

  • Storm’s Mom

    Earthborn Holistic also has 2 grain-free ones that would work – Meadow Feast and Great Plains Feast.

  • Storm’s Mom

    Here’s the Wholesome Blend Turf I was referring to earlier, available via online ordering: http://www.k9cuisine.com/p-2802-wholesome-blend-grain-free-red-meat-turf-dry-dog-food.aspx

    Looks like it meets your criteria. I’m just about to start Storm on it (as in a couple days from now).

  • Storm’s Mom

    The only fish-related ingredient I am seeing in NL is “sardine meal”.. wasn’t sure if that’s considered “white fish”.. I guess it is?

  • taniahunterkothera

    The biggest problem I’m running into is that alot of these foods have White Fish Meal in them. Lamb from Natures Logic does too

  • Storm’s Mom

    What about something like Nature’s Logic Lamb and/or Sardine and/or Beef? Nature’s Logic is quite a bit cheaper here than Fromm GF, at least… Nature’s Variety Instinct also has some awesome Limited Ingredient Diets that should fit the bill as well. There are probably others, but those are the 2 that come to mind immediately.

  • taniahunterkothera

    Just found out our dog has a chicken/turkey, white fish intolerance…. Pork and Peas it is… but boy is it expensive!

  • Brittany Dean

    I see that it has a good bit of peas, but I went with it due to pork being a unique protein source, and the fact that it lacks chicken. I’m going to see how he does on Diamond Naturals with Lamb, we haven’t tried lamb yet, and Diamond Naturals isn’t going to put me in the poor house. Hopefully he likes DN as much as Fromm :-/

  • CranberryCoco

    If you look at some of the older posts, people were saying this has quite a bit of peas in it.

  • Brittany Dean

    The Grain-Free Fromm Pork and Peas is the first Fromm variety we’ve tried. Prior to this he was on Wellness Core to no avail. And before that we tried TOTW High Prairie Puppy, and he wouldn’t touch it. When we got him, he was on 4health Puppy. I;m considering Diamond Naturals Large Breed Puppy.

  • CranberryCoco

    Which flavor are you feeding and what were you feeding before?

  • Brittany Dean

    I also meant to add, he does get a spoonful of Fage Total plain greek yogurt for the probiotics. We also tried canned pumpkin, it helps but as soon as we discontinue the pumpkin, the gas and soft stool returns!

  • Brittany Dean

    I so wanted this food to work for my 8 month old APBT.I’m seriously to the point that I;m wondering if he can even process grain-free. His poop is always kind of soft and

  • Storm’s Mom

    Storm’s 26lbs and normally he gets 1 or 1.25 cups of any given food (I’d say he’s “moderately active” – we run 5km 3-4 days a week, plus a longer walk on Saturdays ..and he’s pretty active indoors (and we play catch my condo building’s long hallway, etc)). He has his “couch potato” moments, but they are usually post-exercise haha.

    So, yeah, normally 1-1.25 cups. On Fromm Pork & Peas he was up to 2.25 cups (the suggested serving for a 30lbs dog), and still really not keeping his weight on as well as I’d like. Add to that that Fromm is about as expensive as it gets for kibble around here, and it’s just not worth it for me to feed it. So, for now, Fromm’s not in the rotation. I’m hoping that Wholesome Blend GF Turf formula will be my pork option in the rotation.. will be starting on that in the next couple of weeks.

  • Pattyvaughn

    She is 12.5 lbs and very active.

  • Tiffani Hallan

    1/2 cup for the entire day, split into two meals. So 1/4 cup plus 1/2 T or so of canned for the morning meal and the same again for the evening meal.

  • CranberryCoco

    How big is your Jack Russell?

  • Pattyvaughn

    LOL! Your 25 lb dog eats the same amount as my 12.5 lb dog, both 12 years, but mine is still insisting she will not be a couch potato. I dream of the day…

  • CranberryCoco

    Lol I love snuggly couch potatoes. My dog has a ridiculous amount of energy even with walking/treadmill exercise/rough housing with other dogs. Sometimes I think she needs to run a marathon.

  • Melissaandcrew

    My crew would starve on that. The onesthat are 12-25 lbs eat between 1/2 cup to 1 1/2 cups. The cockers getting the high end and my 15yr olds get 3/4 cup. Plus add ins of course. But my crew are active.

  • Jan_Mom2Cavs

    Yes, that’s right. My Cavs are a good weight, according to my vet. But, I honestly think Laverne could do with a lb. less. This might not work for all dogs because, like I said, mine are couch potatoes lol.

  • CranberryCoco

    So you feed 1/4c daily or morning/night?

  • Jan_Mom2Cavs

    I agree….both my Cavs get 1/4 c. (of any dry food they’re eating) and 1-2 tblsp. canned plus probiotics/enzymes either everyday or every other day. They weigh 17 and 19 lbs. respectively. They’re 8 and 6 years old and typical couch potatoes. I’ve pretty much cut out treats. They get one small biscuit in the morning (Fruitables) and I use kibble as treats, too, if needed. Once a week they get a biscuit from the drycleaning lady and a few Zuke’s Minis every other week when we go to the Hosp. for Therapy Dog work.

  • CranberryCoco

    My 20 pound Jack Russell mix also had the same pooping going only with Fromm surf and turf. I’ve been feeding her 1/2 AM&PM. She’s not putting on weight and the vet says her weight is ideal.

    I just can’t scale back her food because she gets really cranky if I don’t feed her enough…I also factor in treats.

  • Tiffani Hallan

    Sometimes as dogs get older they actually require even less food. For a dog this size, if he were mine, he’ be getting 1/4 cup twice a day plus maybe a table spoon of canned. The way you are describing his stool as formed most of the time and then soft by the end of the day sounds like classic overfeeding to me. Also is he getting any treats? back off on the treats, especially if they’re made from wheat and switch to grain free ones. 1-2 small treats a day. Another thing you can try is sprinkling digestive enzymes over his food. But back off on his food amounts until the stool firms up, watch his body condition, if he gets too lean and bony, up the food by a tablespoon at a time and go from there.

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  • mfulton7

    Are there any other dog foods that compare in quality to the From but have a more affordable price? The price I was quoted was 72 for a large bag.

  • somebodysme

    Really, all you can do is try it. Fromm is a great food/company. I know many people that swear by it and love it. If I’ve learned only one thing by reading here at DFA, it’s that NO two dogs are alike as far as what they can and can’t eat.

  • mfulton7

    My dogs are having the same issue but with Zignature. The puppy poos 6 times a day and my other dogs poo 3 times a day. The pet food store highly recommended FROMM but now Im not so sure. Any suggestions?

  • Pattyvaughn

    If your vet has seen your dog, then him telling you that you might be oberfeeding the dog is his nice way of saying your dog is overweight. If your dog wasn’t overweight, he wouldn’t think you were overfeeding.

    That being said, switching foods is a good idea. Feeding a variety is as healthy for dogs as it is for people for many of the same reasons. After eating the same food for so long, the probiotics in his gut are probably unbalanced, so a slow switch would be in order. Use a little canned pure pumpkin to help with stool issues while switching. Find foods from 3 or 4 different brands that he does well on and switch between them.

    My JRT is sensitive to chicken too, but there are quite a number of good foods out now that don’t have chicken in them. BTW, my JRT gets just under a cup a day of food.

  • Storm’s Mom

    How much ARE you feeding him? You also said something that causes me concern “the majority of his stool is healthy looking, towards the end of th eday it gets kind of soft” – how often is he going per day? My guy is also allergic to chicken, so I hear you about wanting to find something without chicken in it. Having said that, there’s no reason to stick with feeding one food/brand for “almost a year”!!! You should try (and can) feed a different formula every bag – “rotation feeding”. I’m not a huge fan of Fromm simply because it’s very expensive here and I feel it’s way overpriced for the amount of meat (not much) you get in the formulae. You should try to find something with more meat and less “filler”. If you’d like some suggestions, let us know.

  • A1sauce

    I have a 19lb Jack Russell mix and he has been on Fromm Beef Frittata for almost a year. I have him on the beef because it is one of the 2 grain free formulas by Fromm that has no chicken in it. He is extremely sensitive to chicken and he seemed to be doing really well on it up until a few months ago. We moved recently and since we have moved he has been going to the bathroom about 6 times a day with a good majority of it being inside my house. :( The majority of his stool is healthy looking, towards the end of the day it gets kind of soft but it isn’t diarrhea. I’ve had his stool checked and it was negative for parasites. My vet said that I was possibly over feeding him, however I feed him within his weight class. I make sure that he doesn’t get any chicken in his diet because I know he is sensitive to it. I was thinking of switching his food to the Salmon Tunalini which is also grain free and I was told by a Fromm representative that the chicken parts in that particular food do not cause allergies, its the meat they are allergic to. I love Fromm and he did so well on it for so long so that is why I want to stick with Fromm. I’m just fed up at this point. Any suggestions, anyone been in this situation before? I’m so sick of the poop. :(

  • Red

    I bought the Surf & Turf for my kitty in July to try with her. I think she likes it, but the big fail with this food is the kibble size (and availability here in Canada). If the kibble was a bit bigger, she might have gone for it more. She reacted the same way to Go!, which has kibble around the same size. Just my kitty’s 2 cents!

  • piper

    I order online from chewy and they have free shipping over $49.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Exactly!

  • Julie

    This thread made me chuckle…the things people will say. We show our dogs and have many dog show friends in various breeds and not one of them feeds Pro Plan. Or if they do they won’t admit to it.

  • CranberryCoco

    Since switching my one-year-old dog to Fromm Surf and Turf, my dog has started pooping more in quantity and frequency. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I can add to the food so she can digest it better? Or could it be that I’m overfeeding her?

    I’ve fed her Earthborn Holistic grain-free varieties and BJ’s dry food–duck and sweet potato.

  • Pattyvaughn

    NutriSource, Merrick are the 2 I can think of off the top of my head. If ordering online is an option for you, that opens up your options alot.

  • Tae

    ohhhhkay oh wow that’s pretty bad. Thanks for the info! But the problem I just realized is that I can’t find Earthborn locally..Is there any other decent dog food you can recommend in that price range?

  • Pattyvaughn

    If TOTW were made by another company, it would be a decent food. But it is made by Diamond and they have a horrible food safety record. Their list of recalls is outrageous. And when they have a problem they are very slow to act causing many more pets to die. Then there are the people that died because they fed this food to their animals. And if that isn’t bad enough, when the FDA inspected their plant after the last big dog food recall, they found that Diamond had patched food equipment together with cardboard and duct tape. And they just left open bins of dog food lying around all over the place. Doesn’t sound like there is any hope of the place being sanitary. They were on their best behavior for a few months but couldn’t maintain it for long, they just recently had a cat food recall.

  • Tae

    What about TOTW??

  • Guest

    What about TOTW?

  • Pattyvaughn

    Definitely Earthborn, Fromm is OK, but not as good as Earthborn.

  • Tae

    Hi, I am currently feeding my 3 months old Pomeranian Canidae all life stages and thinking to change to either TOTW, Earthborn or Fromm. Which one do you guys recommend?

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I think Fromm needs to change the name of the food from “Pork and Peas” to “Peas with a Touch of Pork” lol . I can’t believe they sell that stuff for almost $70 for 26 lbs.

  • Storm’s Mom

    Those #s looks good, but there are 2 numbers that you didn’t list …..2 numbers that are EXTEMELY important for a growing large or giant breed puppy: the calcium and phosphorous numbers and ratio.

    Fortunately, it looks like those numbers in the Fromm Pork & Teas are appropriate for a large/giant breed puppy too! Calcicum is 3.1g per 1000kcal on a dry matter basis, and Phosphorous is 2.5g per 1000kcal, so the ratio between them is ok, too.

    https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://frommfamily.com/pdf/typical-analysis/four-star-dog-dry-pork-peas.pdf

    For more options, you might want to check out this list that Hound Dog Mom, one of top experts on large breed puppy nutrition on this site, has compiled of foods appropriate for large/giant breed puppies:

    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFY183Q0NVRXlidWc/

    and head over to the large/giant breed puppy nutrition forum here on Dog Food Advisor:

    http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/

  • Jeannine

    I feed my 22 wk old Rottie the Fromm grain free pork and peas, his vet is amazed at how he looks. He is growing nice and slow so there is not so much strain on his hips and joints as he grows. Pork and peas has coconut oil,canola oil prebiotics plus probiotics, all the omegas. In my opinion it’s the greatest food out there. 29%protein,17%fat,3.5%fiber,10%moisture,4,023 kcals/kg or 410 kcal/cup,1,828 kcal/lb

  • Pattyvaughn

    Yeah, but I already knew that wasn’t true. I have a few friends that show and don’t feed Pro Plan. Only one does, and she feeds only the free samples she picks up, mixed in with her regular food.

  • Cyndi

    Didn’t that person you were arguing with about that food say ALL show dogs ate Pro Plan? I knew they were full of crap, but nice to get confirmation, lol!

  • Laney

    Thank you! I had not heard of those foods before.

  • Melissaandcrew

    Acana chicken and burbank potato

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Hey Laney –

    There are a few wonderful grain-inclusive foods that are rated 5 stars. Nature’s Logic is rated 5 stars and contains the pseudo-grain millet – I have used Nature’s Logic kibbles, canned foods and supplements in the past and my cats currently eat Nature’s Logic in their rotation. I know it’s not rated 5 stars, but another grain-inclusive formula I like and have used is Solid Gold’s Sun Dancer – it’s rated 4.5 stars and contains the pseudo-grain quinoa. In the past I’ve fed Native Performance Level IV which is rated 5 stars. I’ve never used any of Dr. Tim’s foods but his Momentum and Pursuit formulas are rated 5 stars – his customer service is awesome and I really like the looks of Momentum. Merrick’s grain-inclusive line is rated 5 stars – I have used this in the past and like it. Victor’s grain-inclusive Hi-Pro Plus is rated 5 stars – haven’t used this food but I’ve been hearing good things.

  • Laney

    @Hound Dog Mom, what are some good grain-based foods with more than moderate protein? On this site, no grain food are five stars, I don’t think.

  • Pattyvaughn

    I just met a wonderful little Cav named Teeka(or Tika) at my agility class today. His owner says he is the number 6 Cav in the country in conformation. Guess what he eats. He is on a rotational diet, but gets mainly Fromm 4 Star Grain Free and raw. I guess you can do well in conformation feeding something other than Pro Plan now days.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I COMPLETELY agree. Grain-free and, more recently, white potato free are becoming the industry’s latest trend and so many people are buying into it. I think it’s better to evaluate a food based on the amount of quality animal-based protein rather than whether or not it contains grains or white potato. Fromm’s grain-free line also drives me nuts – most of the formulas are under 30% protein and a large portion of it is coming from peas. If they were selling the food for about $40 a bag this wouldn’t be an issue, but I’ve seen it retailing for $70 – $80 for a measly 26 lb. bag. I don’t know who in their right mind would spend that kind of money on a bag of peas..

  • Storm’s Mom

    I would prefer they have another one without potato, though.. so if they change, like, the Surf & Turf to get rid of the potato ..but leave all the GA relatively similar… I wouldn’t mind that..

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    I hope they don’t change the other grain free recipes. They aren’t as bad as the “new” pork one.

  • Pattyvaughn

    I wasn’t sure if you were meaning to reply to someone or not. I have to agree with you though, Fromm has cheapened their name with their new low protein, grain free line. I have 2 dogs with grain issues, but when I pay more for grain free, I expect to get more meat, not more peas. I wouldn’t buy this.

  • Tobias C

    I’m posting on their Four Star Grain Free review what else? Grain-free is a marketing trend designed to make naive people think a food has more meat. I’ve actually heard a few people say that their food had no carbs because their food was grain free! What Fromm does is make a grain-free and then put as much peas as they possibly can for example:

    Pork and Peas first 6 ingredients :Pork(not even a Pork Meal), peas, chickpeas, pea flour, pork meal, pea protein.

    Puppy Gold first 6 ingredients: Duck, Chicken Meal, Chicken, Oatmeal, Pearled Barley, Menhaden Fish Meal,

    Both foods have comparable protein/fat ratios but it is obvious the grain-free is full of protein dogs can’t even digest. Pay $20 more for a 26lb bag vs 33lb, for an inferior product. Truly marketing geniuses.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Than what? Because I consider that to not be enough meat.

  • Tobias C

    I would only feed Fromm Gold Puppy 28%/18% $20 cheaper a bag and more meat!

  • Caroline4

    I just ordered Mercola digestive enzymes. I’ll give an update on how it does.

  • Pattyvaughn

    I’m one of the lucky ones where it was definitely nutritional. A food change stopped all the nastiness. When I babysit someone elses dog that feeds yuck, their poop becomes irresistable.

  • InkedMarie

    Oh gosh, I’ve tried so many things but nothing worked. We have a fenced in yard but also a kennel. Pottying is mostly done in the kennel but I o know my dogs; hitting the yard can sometimes bring on poop, if they hadn’t gone for awhile so I watch them like a hawk!

  • LawofRaw

    Yeah could be? Most literature I’ve read on it leans more toward psychology as a cause, but no one really knows for sure. I think coproghagia is best treated on a case by case basis. Since there is no harm in trying supplemental enzymes, a bit of an elimination process is in order, which sounds like you’ve already done with your dogs’ cases as you said. But it may work to treat other dogs’ cases.

  • InkedMarie

    Ive had many many dogs eat poop and considering what I’ve fed and currently feed, I’m sure it’s a habit, nothing having to do with nutrients. As I tell people with poop eating dogs, pick it up as soon as they go and you won’t have much of a problem. I encounter people posting about this and when I say, walk them on a leash, they usually comment back with “but we have a fenced in yard”. dogs will eat the poop then!

  • Pattyvaughn

    Raw foods have enzymes in them that are destroyed by the cooking process and some dogs just don’t produce enough enzymes, either temporarily or permanently, for many different reasons, so need the extra help.

  • LawofRaw

    Could be? Especially when it comes to foods that have been extruded, like all kibbles and canned foods have been. Extrusion and cooking deplete many of the desired vitamins and minerals to a much lower level than when food is in its natural and raw state. There are some exceptions to that, but generally that is the case and therefore, nutrient absorption can never be as successful from an extruded food as it would be from fresh food.

    That’s why in those cases I would completely support the use of enzyme supplements. I once, used to argue with a knowledgeable regular on here regarding that, but even I’m now open to such supplements in certain circumstances such as feeding processed foods, and for canine problems such as coprophagia. :)

  • Caroline4

    Thanks, maybe the crappy dog food she had before was low in nutrients also.

  • LawofRaw

    Yeah sure. As Patty said, put your dog on some enzyme supplements because coprophagia is likely due to your chihuahua not fully absorbing any of the nutrients from her diet, and enzymes can help break down the food further and have more nutrients absorbed. The other common culprit of this undesirable habit is psychological. It’s hard to pin point, but use the aforementioned plan of attack first for a few weeks at the very least before considering behaviour as the problem, should it persist. But even if its coproghagia doesn’t cease, but does decrease then the problem is still likely the lack nutrient absorption.

  • Caroline4

    I’ll try that, thanks!!

  • Pattyvaughn

    If she is eating her own poop or your other dog’s poop, feed them both digestive enzymes. It won’t work if she is eating poop of something you can’t feed enzymes to. And it also doesn’t cure all poop eating. But it won’t hurt anything, and digestive enzymes are an inexpensive thing to try.

  • Caroline4

    Thanks, I do need to cut back or cut out treats. After hearing what you feed your 20 pounder, I’m sure I’m over feeding them. I have started cutting back portion sizes and will gradually cut back more.

  • Caroline4

    Thanks for the info. My chiwawa also eats poop. Any help there?

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    Reduce their serving sizes and reduce treats or use a portion of their daily allowance of food as treats. Not sure about your 20 lb dog but my 18-24 pounders only eat 2/3 cup of kibble all day. Amicus and Nutrisource grain free might be foods they like as well.

  • LawofRaw

    Yeah sure. Have you considered your dog’s healthiest diet? What its inner wolf desires? Maybe try some raw meaty bones, offal, table scraps, eggs, berries etc.Could be easier than you think. Nice lean turkey or kangaroo meat in the rotation would help with the weight etc.

  • Caroline4

    I have a 9.5 lb, 1 1/2 year old chiwawa and a 24lb, 6 year old yorkie. They are both over weight and I’m trying to get them at a healthy weight. The chiwawa should weigh about 7.5 and the yorkie about 20. (My yorkie is not your typical size yorkie, he does have the frame for this weight) I just started them on Fromm and so far they really like it. Could anyone give advise about weight lose and other good foods to add to their rotation? They usually do not have problems with food changes.

  • Golden Lily

    I just noticed on the Food Advisor states in its recent update that Fromm Four Star Nutritional Grain Free is now listed with just 4 stars except for Surf and Turf which is still rated with 5 stars. I have been switching between all the varieties but have not tried the Pork and Peas yet. Lily is thriving on Fromm for the past several years. I’m disappointed that the rating has dropped. I chose Fromm because of the 5 star rating after the recall on Canidae where grain free is rated with 5 stars.

  • http://www.facebook.com/amy.seidler.1 Amy Seidler

    Have you settled on a good dog food for your dog to help with the ears? I’m sure a grain free, chicken free food would help resolve some of it.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    Root,

    According to our commenting policy:

    “…the use of multiple identities or other deceptive tactics designed to mislead readers are strictly forbidden.

    So, if we suspect you’re posting fraudulently, be prepared to verify your email address or to confirm your real name by providing your Facebook, Twitter or other established social media identity.”

    Please respond to the email I just sent you and follow the instructions it contains.

    Thank you.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    Root,

    What is pea gluten? I’ve never rated any food that contains “pea gluten”.

    Try using our search box and search for the phrase “pea gluten”. Be sure to place quote marks around the two-word phrase.

    You won’t find any such ingredient anywhere on this website.

  • Cindy

    I don’t feed pork, pork meals, etc. So I don’t have a horse in this race. But I don’t know how this could be so any more than it would be for other species specific land animal meals or a specific fish meal?

    Could you further explain or provide evidence please?

    When meals can contain all things in the animal — from muscle meat to bones to organs, etc. — there are companies that state they choose whole animal or low ash or the highest percentage meat protein or muscle meat or organs. Some companies state explicitly that they do not just use the left over cuttings, bones and carcasses, waste after the goodies have been sold to the human market at a premium. They are choosing what composition of the meal they include. Are you disputing this?

  • Cindy

    I must have missed where Mike has rated pea gluten highly vs, perhaps, foods simply containing peas or pea protein based on other factors & ingredients. I honestly haven’t noticed any such thing.

    There is a history of poor quality foods that also make heavy use of cheap ingredients including corn gluten and various grain fragments and waste byproducts from other industries. Maybe you’re just seeing two things together?

    But two major reasons I personally, not speaking for Mike or anyone else here, wouldn’t want corn/corn gluten in a dog food more so than peas/pea protein are 1)corn (along with soy, cotton, beets) topping the lists in the news for GMO & pesticide crops and 2)corn containing pro-inflammatory compounds, just not being that healthful. I rarely consume corn in m own diet for those reasons, and when I do I shop non-GMO at Trader Joe’s (or Whole Foods). I also really do not want to do anything to support /subsidize the corn syrup/HFC industry in America that is polluting a majority of common processed foods/big brands. I want that stuff out of foods and grocery stores.

    As peas seem to be a newer common ingredient added to dog foods, I’ll have to give it more consideration and develop an opinion on them, just as I have corn.

  • Storm’s Mom

    Was just in a pet store earlier today, thought I’d mention that Orijen Regional Red is $92.99 for the big bag (but that bag is bigger than the $89.99 Fromm GF). Do I even want to know what it retails for in the states?! ;-O Nature’s Variety Instinct is around the same price as Fromm ($89.99), Acana Ranchlands is slightly cheaper (I think it was $84.99) ..it goes down from there. NutriSource Grain Free Lamb is $59.99. Best value around, in my opinion. This particular store didn’t have Stella & Chewy’s (I have seen it in one store, I’m pretty sure…), so I haven’t been able to price that one out yet.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    Root,

    Although I acknowledged earlier today that your point is valid, it’s the final ash content of each dog food that matters more.

    Even though the mineral content of any ingredient is important, the overall ash content of the final product is typically adjusted in each recipe’s design to allow its mineral content to meet AAFCO nutritional guidelines.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    All named meat meals – aside from chicken meal – are primarily offal (or “by-product meal”). IMO – the isn’t necessarily a bad thing, offal is quality protein as long as it’s sourced from non 4D animals.

  • LawofRaw

    I hear ya. Yeah I always thought any species specific “meat meal” automatically contains not only muscle meat, but byproducts of that species, all grinded up before extrusion or rendering. I personally don’t believe that byproducts of the same species makes the meal any more inferior, because of the fact that the dog’s wild counterpart, also eats fresh byproducts of their ungulate kill.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    Patty,

    You make a valid point. Thanks for your reply.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Dr Mike
    My comment was not to say I think he is James. He has said a few things about chicken meal that would make me sure he is not. I was refering to how he latches on to something like a bulldog and shakes it to death, which I do not think is necessarily a bad trait, except when he forgets he is dealing with people who deserve to same consideration and respect that he would like for himself, or to the point that it becomes obsessive. I happen to toally agree with him on pork meal, even as I don’t agree with him on some other things. I definitely don’t agree with either of them’s superior attitude or their snide nasty little comments meant to imply that everyone else has an inferior intellect.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    Root,

    Please see my note to Patty above. I checked your references (and others) and it appears you make a valid point.

    Thank you for sharing this information.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    Hi Patty,

    James Bailey is a good person who has been wrongfully accused by some here as a troublemaker. Just because he may disagree with others doesn’t make him so.

    However, “Root” has been here many times before using several different names and posting with notable disrespect.

    He can be very offensive. I actually know his real name. And I’m watching him very closely.

    Yet in this case, after investigating what Root has said about pork meal, it appears he is correct and deserves to be heard.

    Based upon what I’ve learned here today it’s likely I’ll be revisiting other reviews and (when necessary) updating my descriptions and ratings.

  • root

    Here is a quotation from Rothsay, a company I know supplies many pet food companies in North America:

    “Pork meal’s composition and nutritional value is similar to meat and bone meal (MBM) in that it has a high protein, lysine, calcium and phosphorus content. As such it can often be used as a replacement for MBM in feeds and is suitable for poultry, swine, dairy cows, cattle, and aquaculture feed applications.”

    I know what I am talking about. This product is the most standardized of all the protein meals, so you will see virtually no difference between manufacturers.

  • root

    Patty, Mike doesn’t seem to want to admit I am right. Take some time to research “pork meal”. You will find exactly what I say. “Pork Meal” is actually considered and offal product with most used to feed livestock.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Gee, he sure sounds like James.

  • Pattyvaughn

    No idea. I was wondering the same thing

  • InkedMarie

    Thanks Mike. BTW, I asked over on the forum, dog food ingredients subforum, for you to change the name of my sticky and add something (in case you haven’t seen it yet)

  • root

    Bottom line, consumers should not assume “pork meal” is anything more than a low to medium grade protein source made from pork “meat” and pork bone. Our government allows very sloppy labelling requirements when it comes to protein other than chicken.
    Also, Mike why do you rate food with Pea Gluten so much higher than foods with Corn Gluten. The two proteins are virtually the same.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    Hi InkedMarie,

    To answer your question about the process of spray drying, try this link:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spray_drying

  • root

    Mike, there are about 6 plants in the United States that process hogs into “pork meal” for most of the market. It is not difficult to find this information. You are postulating that it is the same.

    I am trying to be helpful. It is wrong to assume this is meal is different just because it is in a Fromm food.

    The general trade name for this meal is “Porcine Meat & Bone Meal” or “Porcine Meal” and generally they are 25 -35% ash, three or more times higher than the better chicken meals.

    No matter which you look at you will see the same thing when it comes to pork products for dog food.
    Also, if you spend the time to research “meat meal” you will see that it is made from beef and pork, specifically stated in the spec sheets as “beef and pork meat and bone meal”

  • InkedMarie

    Can anyone explain what “spray dried” means?

  • Pattyvaughn

    To a degree I think you could be right. From the stand point of a dog being on a particular diet long term and the pancreas adjusting to that, then when the dog switches it takes a while for the pancreas to adjust again, I think that the pancreas gets used to producing what it has to. However, in the case of a dog with food intolerances, I would question if the pancreas ever produced enough in the first place. Of course this is all speculation, I don’t know of any scientific studies relating to this at all. I just know what seems to be working for my dog. And I don’t even know how this would apply to a dog who is fed something different at every meal, though I suspect that in this case the pancreas has to remain flexible and that would be optimal.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    Without viewing the actual spec sheet for the pork meal used here by Fromm’s (or by any other manufacturer), It is incorrect for you to claim this ingredient is different from any other named meat meal and can be assumed to be the equivalent of a meat and bone meal.

  • Mojojojo

    Hee hee. He is my Chi. His sidekick is Jackie Chan.

  • root

    No matter where “pork meal” is made the product is very high in ash. That is why Pork kibbles are generally lower in protein, have other proteins or like Fromm bolsters the protein with Pea Protein. I am not bashing by-products but consumers are led to believe that mammal meat meals are muscle meat and they are not. Why chicken has this requirement to label “by-product” is beyond me.

  • root

    That is not what I meant. I meant that “pork meal” can contain pork by-products and is most like “pork and pork bone meal”. I have seen the spec sheets on most of the available “pork meals” and they should be called “pork and pork by-product meals”. Consumer assume that “pork meal” is muscle meat and it is far from it. I didn’t mean to imply it was other than pork in origin. The bottom line is that “pork meal” is not a great ingredient as a main protein.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    Root,

    You said, “Pork Meal by the way is more than likely Pork By-Product Meal/Meat & Bone Meal.”

    And in my opinion, your assumption would not be true.

    LawofRaw is correct regarding the fact pork meal is no different than any other named meat meal (like beef meal) when it comes to the inclusion of by-products in the finished ingredient.

    What’s more, by definition, “meat meal” and “meat and bone meal” are two different ingredients.

    Unless the pork meal used here specifically states it includes bone, then pork meal should not be considered the equivalent of meat and bone meal.

  • LawofRaw

    Yeah pork byproducts are OK though. Just like most species byproducts are. Just as they would be in the wild. The main difference here is that its processed and extruded and far from fresh. But as long as the meat meal is specified its animal source and not generic, and provided it can be trusted, then such specified meat meals are no different in any equivalent counterpart kibble. JMO

  • root

    You should be much more concerned with how much legume and concentrated legume protein is in Fromm, not the potato.This food has dried Peas, dried Chickpeas, Pea Flour and concentrated Pea Protein. Pork Meal by the way is more than likely Pork By-Product Meal/Meat & Bone Meal. The laws don’t require by-products be labelled as such for mammals. Fromm Surf & Turf has the most animal protein in it. The rest are pretty bad diets.

  • Cindy

    Oh, thank you. And thank you, Mike (and Patty!) for being patient with my trying to understand how things are assessed & described here.

  • Cindy

    Okay . . . going back to read. :-)

  • losul

    I think that’s a very good question. i’ve often wondered the same thing about regular use of enzymes (not about the probiotics.) So I’m glad you asked!

    I’ve never used them, but I always wondered if a dogs pancreas and digestive system could become “lazy” and too reliant to the regular use of enzyme supplements.

  • Cindy

    I’m still so surprised about this. Disappointing.

    Maybe if customers contact Fromm and let them know their thoughts, it will make a difference. I know other small companies that have tinkered with formulas, but were very interested in whether that’s what consumers wanted.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    P.S. Cindy,

    Please re-read “The Bottom Line” summary of my review of Dr. Tim’s.

    Our reviews are not just based upon the ingredients list but also upon an in-depth analysis of the dry matter basis of each food, too.

    Based upon our database averages we maintain for over 3,300 recipes, Dr. Tim’s certainly qualifies as a 5-star dog food on this website.

  • Cindy

    You know what else has changed since I lived in Canada once . . . pitbulls have been banned entirely in some areas (other than grandfathering when the laws were passed).

  • Cindy

    Yeah, just found that out! Ouch. I’m trying to remember how much I paid when I lived there, but can’t recall. The taxes were killers too. Guess we’re lucky that ordering in the US we can still shave off the taxes part too!

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    Hi Cindy,

    Since you make a fair point regarding our closing remarks about TimberWolf, please notice I’ve now edited that review to show the product as “meat-based”.

    Thanks for calling this to my attention.

  • Cindy

    Thanks, Mike. I haven’t meant to be unfairly critical, by the way. As I said before, your website is an invaluable resource and reflective of so much work and research. I remain very grateful for it and the collective knowledge of everyone on the site. So I’m sorry for being a pest with this! I just really like to understand everything and have all the facts. LOL.

  • Cindy

    p.s. Mike, if you’re interested or anyone else is, it was assessments like of this food as meat-based, in contrast, that I have not understood: http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/dr-tims-grain-free/

    The 1st 5 ingredients are: Chicken meal, dried white potatoes, dried field peas, dried beet pulp, chicken fat

    Now, I’m not meaning to pick on this food, as honestly I’ve never even heard of it much less tried it . . . but I would not see that as more meat based. (And I wouldn’t pick those ingredients over other foods or call this a 5 Star Food.)

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    Our judgement is made without taking into account anything other than the information on the label.

    In most cases, to be fair to all, we disregard statements made by any company and focus on the regulated label only.

    In cases like Timberwolf Platinum, there’s a very good chance our opinion is flawed and the recipe is actually meat-based.

    We recognized this. That’s why we still conclude in that review that the product contains “a significant amount of meat” and award it 5 stars.

    In this Fromm product, especially the newer Pork and Peas recipe, there’s little doubt in my opinion the food is plant-based in nature.

    We may revisit this review again and reconsider our rating of some of its recipes.

  • Cindy

    Hi, Mike. Okay, thanks for the explanation.

    It just completely contradicts how this company states its food is made and what it is composed of. I really appreciate all of the amazing information and lists on this website. (Thank you!) I will just respectfully agree to disagree that food like the Platinum Wilderness Elk & Salmon that I just ordered is a plant-based food vs meat-based, with these ingredients:

    Salmon, Venison, Spray Dried Salmon, Elk, Herring, Pumpkin, Sweet Potatoes, Salmon Oil, Green Peas, Flaxseed, Sunflower Oil, Dried Organic Kelp, Dried Saccharomyces Cerevisiae, Herring Oil, Apples, Blueberries, Cranberries, Dried Figs, Thyme, Ground Cinnamon, Garlic, Sunflower Seeds, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Whole Carrots, Dried Celery, Dried Beets, Dried Parsley, Dried Watercress, Dried Spinach, Tomatoes, Lecithin, Choline Chloride, Minerals: [Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Calcium Pantothenate, Potassium Iodide, Sodium Selenite], Vitamins: [Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Niacin (A Source Of Vitamin B3), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin (A Source Of Vitamin B2), Folic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (A Source Of Vitamin B6), Thiamine Hydrochloride (A Source Of Vitamin B1), Biotin (A Source Of Vitamin B7), Citric Acid (A Source Of Vitamin C), Mixed Tocopherols (A Source Of Vitamin E and A Natural Preservative)], Prebiotics: [Chicory Root (Inulin)], Probiotics: [Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Lactis Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Subtillus Fermentation Product], Papain, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Beta-Carotene, Fructooligosaccharides, Taurine, L-Carnitine, DL-Methionine, Rosemary Extract (A Natural Preservative).

    I’ve never had cause to disbelieve this company’s statements about the composition of its foods or philosophy in making them.

  • Cindy

    Maybe I’m being dense or slow tonight, lol, But I’m still not understanding how that assessment is reached.

    Some foods contain a lot of *different* veggies/fruits/seeds/etc, while the percentages of meat vs non-meat are very high. I’ve seen other foods that are designed to be very, very basic (perhaps to be limited ingredient or keep the price down or whatever) that essentially have a meat, maybe a meat meal and then, say, rice, and oil, while being rather low percentage meat.

    I’m also not sure how anyone, without further info from the company, is assessing how much meat, and therefore meat protein is there in meals listed at the top of the ingredients, followed by a high protein plant, vs another food that could be listing exactly the same, same percentages in guaranteed analysis, with quite possibly two very different amounts and ratios of those two sequential ingredients.

    Now, with Timberwolf, they’ve always readily disclosed that stuff and been forthcoming, because honestly they’ve been trying from the beginning to stuff as much meat in their foods as will hold together in a kibble form. That would not be a plant based kibble to me, no matter how many berries and herbs and such the food lists or whether they put a legume instead of a potato for a carb. The percentages whether by weight, percentage of the total food, percentage of where their protein comes from (meat vs nonmeat), percentage of their calories, you name it, they’ve always been upfront about all of that.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    Hi Cindy,

    Please remember our judgement is based upon the nutrient profile of the finished product itself after processing and NOT the precooking weight of its ingredients.

    Our “Bottom Line” assessment about whether a food is plant or animal based dependent upon the dry matter nutrient profile and what items appear to be contributing to the protein portion of its recipe..

    When a food like Timberwolf Platinum is 37% protein (and a good portion of that protein comes from the legumes in its recipe), we interpret those figures as indicative of a food that is primarily plant based (after the water is removed).

    By the way, because they are in essence bakery goods and unlike canned or frozen foods, most kibbles are typically plant based in nature.

    Hope this helps.

  • Pattyvaughn

    I think he calls it plant based if the food appears to be more than half plant matter versus meat based if the food appears to be more than half meat. That would be based on the ingredient list and the guaranteed analysis.

  • Cindy

    lol

  • Cindy

    Mike, but you’ve also called a Timberwolf Platinum food “plant based” which didn’t seem right at all, while not saying that at all about another food that listed potatoes as 2nd ingredient. I didn’t understand that.

    I don’t want to see foods deceptively being veggie protein based while disguised as meat based. But at the same time, just because they incorporate something like lentils or peas or chickpeas rather than potatoes or tapioca or sweet potatoes doesn’t mean that is the company’s intent or reality for the food’s makeup.

    I think a lot of these companies are just trying to avoid potatoes, potatoes (or tapioca) as higher glycemic or nutrient deficient, along with avoiding grains, to make everyone happy. There’s also that acrylamide concern with potatoes.

    And for the record, I don’t know of ANY Timberwolf food that is genuinely “plant based,” not even their Classic line with more moderate protein. Plant inclusive maybe, because they see health benefits in non protein aspects of herbs, greens, berries, veggies, etc.

  • Storm’s Mom

    Yeah, it bites :-( I haven’t checked Stella & Chewy’s but HK is, like $129 plus tax for the box or something like that. We can’t order from online warehouse places either.. or at least not economically…the shipping rates are just outrageous (like, more expensive than the food itself so you’re essentially paying double price for food), and there are none in Canada itself. Gotta love it! ;-( haha

  • Pattyvaughn

    OT, but I can’t even read your screen name with out pronouncing it correctly in my head. LOL! I love it!

  • Storm’s Mom

    Awesome, thanks Pattyvaughn and Cindy!

  • Pattyvaughn

    Storm’s Mom lives in Canada where dog food is much more expensive, even Canadian foods.

  • Cindy

    That’s what I didn’t like with Pure Vita, which my one vet’s office carries (along with sister brand Natural Planet Organics). Peas were listed like 5 times, 5 different ways. Amazing.

    I would like to think better of Fromm though, that they wouldn’t make a mainly veggie protein kibble, especially for their top of the line, while trying to make it look meat based. Since the first two ingredients are whole meat (water included) then meat meal, has anyone happened to ask Fromm what percentage is from meat?

  • Cindy

    Wow, that is really shocking.

    I think I might try a Canadian brand if I were living in Canada then. Wouldn’t that be cheaper? Champion, Canine Caviar, etc. But you say they are still also expensive . . . hmmm. And some brands won’t ship out of USA, or I’d recommend our Timberwolf Organics.

    If Fromm is $90, I can only imagine what Stella & Chewy’s would be to feed or HK, etc. Is it that expensive from online warehouse places too, or just in brick & mortar retail?

  • Pattyvaughn

    If you feed a rotational diet, I would give probiotics a couple times a week to make sure they keep a good variety in their system. I give one of my dogs digestive enzymes at half the regular dose every day, but that’s the one with intolerance issues and I want to make sure he is always completely digesting his food. There is no bad side to giving them except the price and there are several things that they help with.

  • Cindy

    Though I’m not Patty :-), Storm’sMom,

    my dog gets enzymes and pre/probiotics every day because they are in his supplements, his food, and I give him yogurt with multiple live active cultures or kefir just about every day. (He LOVES yogurt.)

    I can’t see *how* it could be a bad idea or of no consequence. I can only see how it could be a good thing.

  • Cindy

    That’s cool news. Thanks for sharing. I really like Fromm as a company and like their formulas.

    It’s also cool that they have some really low, low priced ones (Classic, Gold) for who only able/willing to feed that. One is barely more than $1/lb. I’m surprised to hear that the 4 Star is the priciest dog food where you live! Orijen 6 FIsh is one of the priciest here.

    Funny you should say that about the chickpeas, because when I experimented with feeding my dog chickpeas (canned) in his homemade food, they were pretty hard and even cooking them & trying to mash them a little, my dog had difficulty digesting them. Wonder if I’ll have the same problem with our new bag rotation of Timberwolf, as I think it has chickpeas in it (at least one of the formulas does). Legume-wise, he digests lentils & black eyed peas (which are much softer) or tofu better. Not sure about peas, as I can’t recall feeding them in homemade.

  • Storm’s Mom

    Question: is it a good idea, bad idea, or of no consequence, to add enzymes and/or probiotics on a daily basis, generally? Been wondering this for a while, and just noticed this post while responding to another post on this page, so thought I’d (finally) just ask :-)

  • Storm’s Mom

    It’s around $90 (either $79.99 plus tax or $89.99 plus tax, I forget which) in my Canadian city. Dog food is generally much more expensive in Canada anyway (even the stuff actually MADE in Canada…sigh….), but Fromm GF is THE most expensive kibble available here, which just blows my mind given how much non-meat protein their GF formulae have!

  • Mojojojo

    WOW! Our store sells the grain frees for less than 55$!

  • Mojojojo

    Hi! I have a picky Chi. He LOVES the regular old Fromm Classic. He actually prefers it over canned food! All six of my dogs love it. I personally love the Four Star but he prefers the purple bag!

  • Storm’s Mom

    I’ve wanted to try Storm on Fromm’s for a while now, but the inclusion of potatoes in all of the grain-free formulas made me shy away. But I saw the Pork & Peas in the store a couple weeks ago, saw it was potato-free, so I went for it. So far, Storm is doing quite well on it! He seems to like it, no hesitation in eating it at all. His poops are a bit bigger in volume than normal, but well-formed ..and his coat seems to be holding up well, also. He has gained weight on it, though, by feeding what the bag says to feed him, so I have had to cut ithe portion size back about 25%. But I think this one might be a keeper in the rotation!! It’s nice to have a viable pork(ish) option in the rotation! I say “pork(ish)” because it’s likely far more peas and chickpeas than pork, I suspect, which is why I won’t feed it over a long period of time (it’s also THE most expensive kibble option available in the city!!) But it seems like a good option to add to a rotation for variety!

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    Also give probiotics for a healthy gut. I introduced probiotics and enzymes a year or so ago since I switched foods alot now my group doesn’t have any issues changing foods or brands and hardly have gas. They might have a fish fart after a fish oil pill. But they don’t get supplements regularly anymore, just a few times a week.

  • Pattyvaughn

    I use Aimee’s idea too. I taught touch on a piece of painters tape, and now I can put it anywhere and send my dog to touch. Sometimes I have him “find the touch” by giving him directions to it.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Stinky gas is likely because there is something he is eating that he is not digesting completely. That is fairly common when switching foods, if your dog is not used to switching or the changes are to very different ingredients. I keep digestive enzymes on hand and add them to my dog’s food for a few days at the first hint of gas.

  • aimee

    Hi Liz, One of the ways I exercise my dogs indoors in the winter is by sending them to “touch” an item then returning to me for a few kibbles of their dinner. I started with teaching them to touch a plastic lid from a margarine container. I tossed the lid on the floor and when the dog went to investigate it “marked” the behavior with a “yes” or “good” than gave them a kibble. When the dog was catching on I added the word touch than dropped the lid. After several repetitions i left the lid on the ground and cued them to “touch” . My dogs picked up on this very quickly. Gradually I would ask the dog to “touch” it from farther and farther away. To exercise the dog I set the lid at the end of the longest straight distance in my home, then asked the dog to “touch” from the other end. I can have the dog “run” back and forth between the item and myself in the hallway. You can do this between people as well. This video may help you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWSJVwZybwo

  • AJ

    Is it possible for a dog to be allergic to duck? or can duck give dogs gas? I was feeding my dog Salmon Tunalini from Fromms and recently I switched him to the game bird flavor. I’ve noticed he is having some stinky farts. Could it be from the new game bird flavor?

  • hnybun128

    That’s not always true. Chicken fat alone causes my yorkies to have horrible black eye gunk. It’s really a shame, because I adore Fromm as a company and would really like to be able to feed more than just their beef flavor.

  • monkey

    I can usually tell if a food is working after a month. So if you think the food is working good and you’ve been feeding it for a month or two then try another formula now and mark the first one as a success.

  • Liz

    I need some exercise advice. I have a short breed Russell Terrier who is only a foot tall at the shoulder. I live in a very cold and very snowy part of the country. Even now we are well below freezing (with snow and a wind chill of 5 degrees tomorrow). I was planning on going for a walk a few minutes ago but due to snow melt and rain everything is underwater. This includes my crappy laundry room. From Halloween until Easter she can’t get snow clearance so walks are rare during this period. She won’t wear boots and the salt is everywhere. I live in an apartment so a treadmill is out of the question and I doubt at her age, a ripe 9, she would adapt to it well. She is terrible with other small dogs (loves big dogs) so indoor activity centers have been disastrous and even around the dogs she enjoys she doesn’t want to play games. I’m at my wits end here. Useful advice would be great. I can’t relocate because my spouse works here and is in a doctorate program. The dog is 1 pound overweight according to our vet but is in good physical shape otherwise and always slims down in the summer. She also has a very bad back from a playing in the park injury a few years ago. She is on a very strict diet of Fromm with raw chicken on weekends.

  • AJ

    So I had a question about this food. I recently switched my dog to fromms. He is almost done with his first bag. I know that the flavors are interchangeable but I was wondering if I should keep feeding the same flavor for a while or can i add a new flavor to the diet?

  • AJ

    I recently switched my dog to fromms. I’ve noticed he has loose stool. Is anyone else having that problem with their dog?

  • monkey

    I feed Fromm as well but the new Pork and peas is a horrible food. Just because we like Fromm doesn’t mean we should feed an inferior new formula they produce.

  • Golden Lily

    I started feeding Fromm Four Star Grain Free 2 years ago after the food I was giving my Golden had a recall. I switch every other week from Beef Frittata to Salmon Tunalini, and Surf and Turf, and just noticed they have a new Pork and Peas which I am going to try. I called the company when I switched to Fromm with questions about grain free, and using the different choices in the Four Star list, and they were very helpful. Lily is thriving on Fromm and has a gorgeous coat and healthy weight. She loves it!

  • AJ

    Ok thanks.

  • ShimmersMama

    Thanks Hound Dog Mom! Right now isn’t a goo time to start trying to make her food on my own since I’m in the middle of moving. She eats canned food already but I’m worried about how it affects her teeth. We tried raw but she didn’t like it very much. I think it was Stella and Chewys. I’ll check out k9 cuisine. Thanks again!

  • Hound Dog Mom

    No, it’s not normal. Try supplementing with digestive enzymes.

  • AJ

    So I switched my dog to fromms grain-free salmon tunalini. So far its going well. However I did notice something. He is starting to pass gas that smells exactly like the smell of the food. Is that normal?

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Ingredient splitting at it’s finest. At $70 for a 26 lb. bag – those are some pricey peas.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Hi ShimmersMama –

    Have you considered feeding something other than kibble? Commercial raw food, commercially prepared fresh food, canned food, dehydrated food, freeze-dried food and balanced homemade food are all options that are not only more palatable to dogs, but a lot healthier than kibble. These types of foods can be cost prohibitive for owners of large dogs and/or multiple dogs, but for one small dog the cost wouldn’t be too outrageous. You could even just try mixing one of these options with the dry food. Tripett, in particular, is one product even the most finicky dogs seem to love. It’s canned green tripe – it’s not a complete and balanced food so you’d have to mix this one with kibble. If you want to stick with dry only, I’d suggest trying to get free samples to see if your dog likes the food before buying a bag. K9cusine.com has a pretty decent selection of samples and trial-sized bags, most high end boutique pet stores have sample if you ask and you can even try emailing a company to see if they will mail you some samples (most will). Good luck!

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Hey Dr. Mike –

    It’s 29% protein and 17% fat. I saw it on Natural K9 Supplies a week or so ago and thought it might have been an old formula that was discontinued because I’d never heard of it and couldn’t find it on Fromm’s website – but turns out, after reading Monkey’s post, that it’s new.

    http://www.naturalk9supplies.com/Dog-Food/fromm-four-star-pork-and-peas-dry-dog-food.aspx

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    I agree. However, our decision needs to include a look at the Guaranteed Analysis (not showing on the PDF you posted).

    Lately, we’ve been taking a more critical view on the use of pea protein when it appears near the top of the list. This could cause our rating of the entire grain free product line to be negatively affected.

  • ShimmersMama

    I’m at my wits end trying to find a food for my picky little Rat Terrier/Italian Greyhound girl. We’ve literally tried almost everything. She’s currently on Wellness Small Breed, but only eats probably 1 of every 5 meals. I want her to be on a grain-free diet, but last time we tried that (EVO Red Meat) she would eat only half the time and the smaller poo size gave her anal gland issues. I tried canned pumpkin and greek yogurt to fix that, but it had the opposite effect and turned the poos to liquid.

    I’m currently debating between Fromm and Merrick dry food. She tried Fromm Gold before and it was ok, but she didn’t really eat it. Any thoughts between the two? Or something else I should try? I just want this silly girl to eat like a normal pup. :S

  • LabsRawesome

    True. :)

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    If it came in 30 lb bags, the cat food would make good dog food.

  • LabsRawesome

    Hey sandy, lol I missed that. :)

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    The other two were cat formulas.

  • LabsRawesome

    That is weird. The other two formulas look decent. But the pork should be followed up by pork meal. Very strange, and out of the ordinary for Fromm. Maybe it’s a typo? I definitely would not buy the pork formula.

  • monkey

    The new Grain-free formula looks horrible. Mike, please give them 3 stars to show how unacceptable it is. http://www.wholesomepet.com/documents/NewFrommFormulas.pdf

    Pork, peas, chickpeas, pea flour, pork meal, pea protein, pork fat, whole dried eggs

  • beaglemom

    Hey AJ, my dogs did well with Fromm when we rotated through it. My only complaint was that the kibble size is pretty small (like cat food size). My one dog is a gulper so needless to say he didn’t chew it very much.

  • AJ

    Hello everyone. I’m thinking about changing my dog’s food and I wanted to get some opinions about fromms.

  • Patty

    After trying numerous and expensive grain-free products, we have finally found a match with Beef Frittata. He happily eats his food now, instead of walking away. I add a couple of tablespoons of hot water and wait a few minutes before I give it to him.

    He stool is normal soft and he went from three times a day to two. So he is definitely benefiting from the quality of food.

    I’m very happy and he’s very happy! Thank you!

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  • beaglemom

    Hi Julie, have you tried adding a source of fiber to his diet like pure canned pumpkin? Also, I have a dog that seemed to have loose stools (and gas!) regardless of what he ate but recently added some enzymes to each of his meals — the stool and gas issues have improved considerably. He’s cycled through a few different brands now, including Fromm, with no trouble.

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    The problem probably wasn’t with the food manufacturer, but with an ingredient in the food. Too many times people concentrate on the brand of food, not what’s in the food. Look for a 5 star food with similar ingredients to the Iams you’re currently using.

  • Julie

    I have an 11 yr old Austrailian Sheppard Lab mix. He has digestive issues and I have tried many brands. I have him on Iams and for the 1st time in a year he has a solid stool. After doing some research, i discovered Iams is crap. But then why is sammy doing so well? I want to try Fromm but not sure which one to try do to his diarhea issue…any suggestions?

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  • Hound Dog Mom

    Orijen just came out with a freeze-dried raw that looks awesome. The new kibble is just making it’s way to the U.S. so it might be a few more weeks until it’s readily available. I’m excited to try it. I like all the freeze-dried varieties that Sandy mentioned too. Another that I really like is Wysong’s. The have a freeze-dried called “Uncanny” which is powdered (unlike the nuggets and medallions that the other brands come in), when you add water it’s canned food consistency. They also have some great freeze-dried treats in medallion form called Dr’s Dream.

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    I’ve used Instinct, Stella & Chewys. Right now it’s Nutrisca and Vital Essentials freeze dried. The VE website is currently being upgraded so you can’t see their products there, but you can find them online at amazon and other dog food retailers.

  • Ally28

    That’s kind of how I felt. But I’ve heard really good things from people whose dogs eat it. Luckily, my girls are small (2.5 and 4 lbs) so a 5 or 6 lb bag lasts a while. :)

  • Ally28

    Thanks! I’ve always wanted to try the freeze dried “raw” products, but I’m not sure which companies I can trust. I’m even more concerned about the quality and source of the ingredients going in if they’re going to be raw. Any suggestions?

  • Jan_Mom2Cavs

    I agree with sandy. Fromm would be a fine food to add to your rotation. I use Fromm for mine in their kibble rotation. I was using Merrick, too, but had some issues with certain bags so now I added Acana singles to their rotation.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I think Fromm is a good company but their food is way overpriced for what it is. A 26 lb. bag of the grain free is (depending on the variety) $65 – $70 at my feed store. No way would I pay $65 – $70 for 26 lbs.of food that only has 28% – 30% protein. IMO – there are much better options where you can actually get some meat for your money.

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    Fromm is still relatively low in carbs and has a variety of protein sources to choose from. I also offer my dogs food with varying amounts of meat/fat/carbs for variety and not just from kibble but also canned and raw and freeze dried products. Fromm is a good option to offer in your rotation.

  • Ally28

    Should I be concerned that this food is considered “plant based” instead of “meat based?” I was thinking of switching my 2 chihuahuas to Fromm from Orijen. They absolutely love Orijen and have done really well on it. I just like to switch up their food for diversity (I make sure to switch up protein sources also). I have heard good things about this brand but I usually prefer to see more meat in the first few ingredients and a higher protein content.

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  • Pattyvaughn

    This ingredient is about 80% water, so after processing almost all of that water is gone. So the second ingredient, duck meal already has the water removed, so there is actually more of it in the finished product.  And you can look through the rest of the ingredients to see what other fresh(water inclusive) things are in there.

  • Anthony

    I’m confused with your comment about the first ingredient (salmon) where you state “After processing, this item would probably account for a smaller part of the total content of the finished product.”  By law, the ingredients posted must start with the greater percentage first, and, so on.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/VANJDSC3QOFVIW25NUS2TUGESU Lora

    It tastes so good the first time so they want more. Sorry couldn’t resist, i know what your talking about my female Yorkie just loves her poop, i watch & pick it up right away. But when my husband takes them outside he’ll always come in say don’t kiss Brandy she was eating poop. My male looks at her like what is wrong with you.Lol Mine both eat Fromm’s usually the gamebird, my vet is very happy as to how healthy they are, great mucle tone. But they do have stinking breath (no not from the poop) and there’s nothing wrong with their teeth.

  • http://www.facebook.com/amberxhutcheson Amber Binks

    I’m doing the same with my dachshunds. Let me know how it goes with yours!

  • Twill94

    My boxer, toy poodle and 2 cats all eat Fromm food! They LOVE it and are super healthy!

  • monkey

    All the grain free formulas are small bites. (like cat food size)

  • Billy Pullin

    I am going to switch my Dachshunds to this. Does it come in small bites?

  • Jan_Mom2Cavs

    I do the same as HDM…calorie count. I use Fromm grain free kibble (and top with various canned food). My dogs eat wwaayy less than the bag says, but still maintain their weight. Remember, when you calorie count you need to count all the treats, supplements, toppers, etc. they get into their total.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Usually ear infections are more a case of intolerances instead of true allergies which are life threatening.  Building the immune system from the intestines out is the most effective way to combat them.  That means low to no carbs, pre/probiotics, and digestive enzymes long term. 

    My dog with these issues is getting a low carb raw in the morning and Brothers in the evening.  I use low carb canned for a topper.  I also give a good dose of fish oil.  Within two weeks, I could already see that he was showing improvement.  It’s now 1 1/2 months later and the only symptom I can see is a little dry hair on his hips. 

    I’ve been advised to stick to this diet for at least nine months and then I can see if he can tolerate more carbs, but his condition is so much better in so many ways that I am sold on the benefits of low carb and raw for life.

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    Just pick a couple foods they like and rotate.  Mine eat kibble, canned, ground raw, freeze dried and raw meaty bones.  You can top kibble with meat or eggs or sardines or canned foods.

  • Jake

    Thank you for replying. Just was not sure. Always researching and driving myself crazy about what is the best food to feed my fur babies. :)